1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: In the days following the deadly mushroom lunch, passwords were 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: put in place around hospitals and specialist divisions of Victoria. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: Police were briefed they knew the storm that was about 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: to descend upon that. 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: Three people are dead and one man is fighting for 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: his life this morning after a suspected mushroom poison A 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: suspected mushroom poisoning inside where victims are from is a 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: really small town, just five thousand people. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: In another day of his testimony, Stephen Eppingstaal took to 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: the stand to talk about dealing with the media a Noki, 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: your phone, diet books, subway footage and Facebook messages. I'm 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: Brook Greenbert Craig, and this is the mushroom cook. It's 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: day twenty two of Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and once 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: again I'm joined by my colleague, court reporter Laura Pistol. 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: I can't believe we're nearing the end of week five. 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Yes, we are. So it was quite a bitsy day 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: in court today. Detective Leading Senior Constable Stephen Eppingstall returned 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: to the sten and gave evidence. 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: His cross examination continued and defense barrister Colin Mandy really 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: took him through a number of topics, some of which 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: we flagged at the top of the episode. 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: Let's start with the media coverage. 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: This was a topic Constable epping Stall was asked about 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: very early on today. Mister Mandy asked him whether or 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: not he agreed that there was significant media interest in 26 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: this case from very early on in the investigation. He agreed, 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: and he explained to the court that he briefed the 28 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: Victoria Police media unit and holding lines were prepared. He 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: also told the court that passwords were put in place 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: at the hospitals where the guests were being treated. He 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: said by August five, a week after the lunch, the 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: media were well and truly reporting on this case. 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: The jury heard that a media release was issued on 34 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: August six, confirming the homicide squad were investigating three deaths. 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Constable epping Stall said a press conference was held on 36 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: all August seven with Detective Inspector Dean Thomas. Mister Mandy 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: then asked him whether the media were camped outside Aaron's 38 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: property and lean Gatha, including inside her property, and he replied, yes, 39 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: they did go into her property, but. 40 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: That's all that was really said about the media and 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: mister Mandy moved on to a different topic. 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Yes, let's talk about the search warrant that was done 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: at Aaron's home on August five. We touched on this 44 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: in yesterday's episode, So Laura, can you tell us what 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: more we heard about it in court today. 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: So mister Mandy really used this part of today's cross 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: examination to try to pick holes in the police investigation. 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: The court heard today that Erin was not given any 49 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: notice of the search warrant. On August five, police arrived 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: at her house, told her what the warrant was in 51 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: connection to, and began their search. Mister Mandy asked Constable 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: Eppingstall about Erin's wabouts during the search, and he said 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: for the majority of the time she remained with him 54 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: unless she needed to go to the bathroom when one 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: of his female colleagues would take over. He told the 56 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: court that Erin was allowed to retain her phone because 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: she needed to make some arrangements in relation to her children. 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: He also explained that at one point Erin was given 59 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: permission to contact a lawyer from a room at the 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: front of her house with the door closed. Mister Mandy 61 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: asked whether or not this was for a period of 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: fourteen minutes, and Constable Eppingstall replied that it was his 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: recollection that it was about twenty minutes. 64 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: He was then specifically asked questions about a Nochi your phone. 65 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: Constable Eppingstall said he had a conversation with Erin about 66 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: that device during her record of interview. He confirmed it 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: was not located and therefore not seized. 68 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: During this part of the cross examination, Constable Eppingstall was 69 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: asked about a number of devices and whether or not 70 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: they were seized. He confirmed again today in that another 71 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: phone that has been referred to in this case that 72 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: has been called Phone A, was also never located by police. 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: To refresh our listener's memories, this is the phone that 74 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: police say Erin used in the lead up to the 75 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: lunch with a SIM card that she had been using 76 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: for a number of years. Constable Eppingstall told the court 77 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: yesterday that phone record showed that this simcard was taken 78 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 2: out of Phone A on August five at one forty 79 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: five pm, that is the time of the search warrant, 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: and placed into another phone, that being a Nokia. It 81 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: was at this point that Constable epping stare was taken 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: to a photo that was captured during the search warrant 83 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: by police. It was a photo of an ottoman in 84 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: Aaron's house that was covered in charging chords and what 85 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: appeared to be devices. Mister Mandy pointed to one of 86 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 2: these devices on the ottoman and asked Constable epping Stall, 87 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 2: can I suggest that is Phone A in a case? 88 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: But Constable Eppingstall said he did not agree, saying that 89 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 2: if that device was a phone, it would have been 90 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: seized by police. 91 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: And just to summarize what Laura said, Phone A and 92 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: the Nokia phone were both not located or seized by police. 93 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 2: Mister Mandy had more questions for Constable epping Stall about 94 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: items not seized from Erin's home. He showed Constable epping 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: Stall a photo, again taken during the search warrant from 96 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 2: the study, which he also called the Lego room. Mister 97 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: Mandy claimed that two laptops could be seen in that photo, 98 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: but Constable epping Stall replied, if their laptops, this is 99 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: the first I'm learning of these items, reiterating to mister 100 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: Mandy that during the search he was with Erin and 101 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: was not looking for items himself, leaving that to his colleagues. 102 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: Now, let's move on to Erin's bank records. 103 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: This was a very brief exchange, but mister Mandy quizzed 104 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: Constable epping Stall about how many months of Erin's bank 105 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: records police had obtained. The court heard they had obtained 106 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: records from July one, twenty twenty three, through to August four. 107 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: Mister Mandy asked Constable Epping's no other periods of time. 108 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: He replied, no, and I can't explain why we didn't 109 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: go back further. Some of her bank records were then 110 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: shown to the court, specifically in relation to the troops 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: she made to a BP in Coldermeaede and a Doughnut van. 112 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: Later that same day. 113 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: On the topic of records, Constable epping Stall was questioned 114 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: about the analysis of Aaron's phone records conducted by digital 115 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: forensics expert doctor Matthew Serell. 116 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: I feel like it's been a while since we've spoken 117 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: about doctor Cerel's evidence, and today we got back into 118 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: the nitty gritties of it. Earlier in the trial, doctor 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: Soerell told the jury that he was provided years of 120 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: call charge records from a phone belonging to Erin, as 121 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: well as about twenty days of what are called event 122 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: based Monitoring records or EBM. For sure, these EBM records 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: provide very granular detail, he said. And today Constable epping 124 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: Stall was asked why police only obtained days of these 125 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: records to give to doctor Serrell, and in response, Constable 126 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: epping Stall spoke quite a lot about how costly these 127 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: records actually are to obtain, and he said to the jury, 128 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: to get EBMs for a year we would be talking 129 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: well into six figures. And my boss isn't real keen 130 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: when I spend too much money. That comment from him 131 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: definitely prompted some laughs from the courtroom, and he went 132 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: on to say that the police have to be really 133 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: selective and targeted when it comes to these EBM records. 134 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: The jury also found out how Constable epping Stall found 135 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: out about I Naturalist, and this was after a conversation 136 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: with doctor Tom May when they were just generally speaking 137 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: about death cap mushrooms. Doctor May went on to tell 138 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: him that he had actually cited death caps in Outrim 139 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: in May twenty twenty three, and he posted this sighting 140 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: to the citizen website I Naturalists. 141 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: There have been several clips of CCTV footage tended in 142 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: this trial and today Constable epping Stall was quizzed about 143 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: another one. 144 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: Yes, he was asked about CCTV footage obtained from a 145 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: subway store in leen Gatha on the night of that 146 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: deadly lunch. He told the court on Tuesday, the footage 147 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: shows Aeron dropping off her son at seven twenty two 148 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: pm and picking him up eleven minutes later. But in 149 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: court today three images were shown to the jury. The 150 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: first one was of Erin's son, the second one was 151 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: the still of a boy from inside subway, and the 152 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: third image was of another photo of Eron's son. Mister 153 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: Mandy suggested to Constable epping Stool that that boy depicted 154 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: inside subway in the second photo was not Eron's son. 155 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: He replied, I believe it to be him, but it's 156 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: a matter for the jury. 157 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: And that was really all that was said about the 158 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 2: subway before mister Mandy took Constable epping Stall to another topic. 159 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: Yes, more messages were shown to the jury between Aaron 160 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: and her online friends. The jury heard there were around 161 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty six pages of messages from this 162 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: group chat that had been extracted by police. 163 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: To jog our listener's memories. These are the messages that 164 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: Erin was having with these online friends that concerned her 165 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: estranged husband, Simon and his parents Don Gale, in the 166 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: context of the child support dispute that she was having 167 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 2: with him. The jury has previously been shown quite a 168 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: number of these, but today mister Mandy tended more of 169 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: those messages. This is what Aaron writes in one exchange. 170 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: It's her words, it's not her voice. I suspect the 171 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: best thing I can do is just forget about all 172 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: of them and live my life. Simon is probably loving 173 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: how upset I am about all of this. In response, 174 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: one of her friends replies, I'm so sorry, Erin. It's 175 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: so funny hard when you're not believed or understood. I 176 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 2: went through similar with my ex in laws. Mister Mandy 177 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: asked Constable Eppingstall whether he agreed that there was an 178 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: enormous amount of context surrounding these messages. Mister Mandy also 179 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: on to suggest that this was a group chat where 180 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: a number of the participants were talking in similar ways, 181 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: venting to each other about their lives, and Constable Eppingstall 182 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: said that was a fair assessment. 183 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: Lastly, the purchasing of diet books were briefly mentioned in 184 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: court today. Once again we didn't get a whole lot 185 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: of context about it. 186 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: Mister Mandy mentioned today that Erin's weight was recorded when 187 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: she was admitted to Lea and Gatha Hospital on July 188 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: thirty one. After that, he told the court that police 189 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: had obtained Erin's receipts from the online bookstore book Topia. 190 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 2: He then asked Constable epping Stare whether he agreed that 191 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: a large number of the books Erin had purchased related 192 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: to diets. He said that was correct. At the end 193 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: of the day today, Justice Christopher Beale told the jury 194 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: that there was an issue that needed sorting out before 195 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: mister Mandy could continue the rest of his cross examination 196 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: with Constable epping Stall, so it's expected that he will 197 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: return to the witness box tomorrow. 198 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: To stay updated on the case, go to the mushroomcook 199 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: dot com dot au MHM