WEBVTT - #51 | Ant Middleton 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.840 If you're in my hot seat, that's what you want 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:10.920 to go in, little challenge. I don't want to be challenged, right, yeah, yeah, 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.000 he's doing his best. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:14.240 Well, we don't have to worry about dad when. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.640 He was a kid. So what a you're do when 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:18.319 you grow up and you said, I'm going to take. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.799 All your joke all your jobs used to laugh and 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:21.599 jokes as well? 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.400 Yeah yeah, well that really works. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.760 And now you're working together and love that. A team, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.080 family unit, family team, that's what. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.519 Well, if you can't trust your family, well who can 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:34.000 you trust? 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:35.920 No one? 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.200 No, no, apparently not. That's what that's what we live by. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.479 So we are we're out of your studio here and 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.840 where you record your podcast? Head Game? 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:44.639 That's right? 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.160 Yeah, yeah yeah, So run us through. What it's about. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.680 The head Game is just talking to ordinary people that 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.800 have extraordinary stories. So what I do is I tap 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.600 into their mindset on how they've overcome certain situations, the 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.960 mindset they utilized, and you know, whether that was fear panic, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.280 whether they were facing a certain phobia. Because the people 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.840 that I interview are left with one option in life, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.560 and it's almost like a do or die and sometimes 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:13.800 it is that serious they've got to make a decision 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.640 otherwise they're not going to make it through. But also 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:22.000 do or die with decisions about work, decisions about family. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.720 You know, all these hard choices and how they got 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.480 through certain situations. So it's fascinating because everyone has a 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.160 story yet has well. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.399 I imagine sports people and military people. You know that's 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.000 your strength, like that's they're the probably people you relate 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.880 to most. Who's surprised you of the guests you've had on. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.440 Do you know what? I've had all sorts of guests, 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.399 And this is where Nova's so good at just you know, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.840 hand picking these these individuals because I like to really 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.520 not do too much homework. I like to just take 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.480 them at face value, really tap into their story. And 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.720 I might have have certain questions for example, and then 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.480 I've asked none of them users like you've asked none 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.800 of these questions. But what a hell of a podcast 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:06.560 because we just go off on a tangrum and I 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.480 just really feel where they're going and try and extract 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.760 their story of raw emotions. So I've had I've had 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.079 people that have had their faces ripped off by by 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.640 bears in Canada. I've had people stuck in minds, you 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.600 know that where the oxygen's diminishing and they're slowly dying, 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.520 but they're having to really dig deep psychologically and put 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.280 on certain emotions, whether that's family, whether that's loved ones, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.400 whether that's just the sheer will to survive. And what 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.239 I love about my podcast is these people are left 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.880 with one option, you know, and when you're left with 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.320 one option in life, you'll be amazed at what you 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:48.440 can achieve, et cetera. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.880 Isn't when you look at things like you know, and 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.960 we always liking it. Sport, it's people say, you know, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.640 when you go into professional sport, you've got to do 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:56.679 one thing. You're going to make sure. You've got to 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.720 plan V. Well, sometimes you want to make it. Don't 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:02.560 have a plan B. That's all or. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.200 Nothing, matty, You are bang on there. And it's the 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.560 same in the military. As long as there's a plan, 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.440 there's a there's a way through. You know, a lot 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.919 of people are so risk adverse nowadays. What they want 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.880 they want to plan, they want they want the solution, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.760 the option, and then they want to plan a, B, C, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:21.960 D and E around it, and they go right, as 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.040 long as you've got three or four plans around it, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:25.720 then we can execute what needs to be done. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:26.240 No, no, no, no, no. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.960 Is there an option? Is there one option forward? 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:30.160 Here? 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:31.920 If there is, go for it. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.240 Well we've had an amazing life. But more recently, you 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.400 just got back from Everest base camp as well. Because 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.960 the big fella here, Matthew, mate, he's he doesn't like 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:42.480 toot his own hole and he's very humble, but he 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.080 went to I do Yeah, he went to base camp 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.320 as well with a few of his ex teammates. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.600 Yeah, well we did actually to what happened, and we 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.040 did it, and then we went and celebrated after we 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.760 hit it. And then a guy come to the come 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.040 to the tea house and said, listen, there's one further 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.480 up color Batan, why don't you do then? This one's 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.560 not too hard, And me and my old captain we 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.880 went and did it. I got to say it. I've 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.200 got so much respect for you your military guys, because 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.680 I remember doing it. Get un in the morning, just filling, 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.680 that's sick in the stomach, and I'm walking up and 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.560 I'm saying to my old captain Chief, I said, I'm exhausted, 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.720 I'm sick in the stomach, I'm deteriorating quickly. Can imagine 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.760 being in war. We're in carbull and there might be 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.120 someone hiding in a cave and everything. It's just like 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.640 it shows the mental tough and of you guys. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.720 Do you know what Matti just to do? Every space 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.120 camp is no easy feat. People think that it's at 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:45.080 the base of a mountain. It's three hundred meters on 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.960 the way to Mount Everest, which sits just below nine 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.640 thousand meters, so you're more than halfway up Mount Everest. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.280 It's higher than most of the seven summits. So just 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.440 to get there with the lack of oxygen that you know, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.359 and the lack of knowledge. And I always say to 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.960 my to my clients, because I took ten clients recently 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.240 up to every space camp, Listen to your body. Be aware. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.640 The altitude will pinch you in the ass at a 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.920 certain time that you won't expect it. Your emotions will 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.279 be everywhere. You feel like you can't breathe, you start 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.080 to panic and fear will kick in, and that's when 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.440 you know that you need to really really listen to 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.640 your body. It's no easy feet makes the hats off 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.919 to you and the isummated Mount Everest actually to the 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.640 top in twenty eighteen, so you under the top. Yeah, 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.680 I went to the top in twenty and eighteen, and 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.400 then I just took ten clients on a sort of 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.760 VIP expedition to every space company. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.640 Yeah, when you've been to the top, how like when 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.720 you do base camp? I imagine, do you not feel 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.080 like the a climate, like the lack of oxygen since 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:53.919 you've been to the top, is your like white blood 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.120 cells that you must have not really felt anything going 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:57.440 to base camp then or No. 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.560 You always have to acclimatize. Once you're a way from 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.640 from the mountains, let's call it, once you've sort of 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.520 come down from the mountains, there's probably a two to 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.240 three week period that you were acclimatized. So say I 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.240 came down from Mount Iris and I wanted to go 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.120 and jump on let's see the fourth biggest mountain in 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.200 the world or the fifth you know lots say for example, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.560 which is I think it's it's at eight at eight three, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.040 I will be acclimatized to go and do that. However, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.279 if I'm away from the mountains for two three weeks 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.400 and I have to reacclimatize so I have to go 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.400 back into the process of making sure that I take 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.080 my time, making sure that you know that I'm well 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.440 fed and well nourished, because the high you get, the 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.360 lack of oxygen sort of suppresses your hunger. It suppresses 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.800 you know, it suppresses all of your main organs. Therefore 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:48.719 your body is slowly shutting down. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:50.960 Well, this is now. Look, I haven't done Everest, but 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.520 I've been an air locker, so I don't. Oh, well, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.920 I haven't. Okay, this is such a such a wrong 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.479 ruin to bring this up, but I did air the 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:02.080 other day. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.880 I'll get a journator call. This is an amazing story 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:05.840 leading on. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.159 Mate, They'll make documentaries about this shit. I went to 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.320 and look, I've been retired from rugby league for a 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.280 year and a half, two years, so I talked about 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:18.520 a climatization for training. I'm not well acclimatized to get 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.320 back in the gym, but I went and did air locker. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.920 Holy hecker. When they like stripped the oxygen out of it, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.200 it is that tough, like the lack of if you 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.160 do a big effort on an assault bike or something 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.040 and then you're trying to get your breath and recover. 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.760 You just don't get it. You actually just cannot get 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.400 your breath back. Like it was tough. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:35.000 I spewed. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.480 I spewed, not proud of it, but I spewed everywhere 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.960 in that airlocker gym, and people were like scoffing at. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:42.640 Me, good mate, as you were working. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:44.240 No, no, no, it wasn't like that because it was 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:45.960 like five minutes in well. 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:50.640 Okay, speaking about mental toughness. So and you learned a 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:55.160 lot about life, mental toughness about people through the military. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.960 It's tough as it gets seventeen years of age. Now 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:03.840 you served Northern I on Macedonia, Afghanistan. He did security 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.920 work in Africa. I can imagine they're all so different. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.840 What was what was it? What was the I'm trying 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.680 to scary is that I don't want to use the 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.760 most unpredictable. What what did you find the most challenging? 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:19.920 Do you know what? Throughout my career, I suppose I 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.600 was introduced quite correctly into the process. So when I 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.800 when I passed, when I was seventeen, i passed. I 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:29.840 was in the Royal Engineers but then I passed pea 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.320 company which I became a para engineer. So I had 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.840 my maroon beret, had my parachute wings and I deployed 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.719 to Northern Ireland. But it was a piss up. I'm 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.800 not gonna lie here. I was. You know, we were 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.440 winding down from the from the day, from the you know, 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.839 from the sort of early eighties, late seventies and really 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.720 just handing over so that but that was my first 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.000 sort of peacekeeping tour, you know, where I sort of 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.600 eased into the process. And the Macedonia was a little 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:00.920 bit harier. You know, we were to prevent a civil 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:06.080 war from happening, therefore collecting arms from from locals and 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.680 from rebels, so you know there's a bit of hostility there, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:14.240 there's a bit of action there. And then the Afghanistan 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.439 was just a completely different ballgame. You know. I went 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.120 from joining I went from going into from them being 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.160 a power engineer to then joining the Royal Marines, which 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.760 is the elite of the conventional forces and again not 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.760 special forces of the conventional forces. And I've done a 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.920 tour of Afghanistan as Section commander there and yeah, it 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.320 was kinetic. You know, you're seeing IDs go off, You're 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.640 seeing your muckers getting blown up, and that was like, wow, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.520 you know you want to play soldier? This is this 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:44.839 is it? 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.040 What's your role in that as well? Like are you 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.000 are you like on the ground, are you sniper? 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:49.360 Are you? 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.679 So at this stage, I was a section commander, so 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.400 I was in control of seven other men. There's eight 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.760 in a team. So I'm I'm patrolling around. I'm giving 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.360 and given an area of operations that I have to 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.800 patrol and that I have to have to take ground 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.640 and then keep the ground. And it's my job with 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.720 my team to maneuver us through this through this maze 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.479 of compounds basically and obviously through the maze of compounds 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.120 where the enemy know we're going that During that time, 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.680 it was id central. You know, it was just like 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.439 you just you know, sometimes you just hope and pray 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.760 that you know that you weren't the one that's going 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.480 to get blown up into the air. I mean. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.520 Winston Churchill he once said, you go way back to 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.560 that time, and there's been a lot of lessons learned 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.720 since then. He said, one of the two biggest rules 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.280 of war is don't invade Afghanistan and don't invade Afghanistan. 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.160 And that was before the Soviets before we went in there. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.120 What makes it so difficult A lot of the nature 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:48.640 of the people. 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.839 Now, do you know what's it's the terrain. The terrain 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.280 is vast. You know. These guys are you know, so 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.360 sophisticated when it comes to tunneling, when it comes to 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:03.000 cave caving, and you know, building a fortress within the 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.319 mountains which you can't see. So ultimately it's all well 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.880 and good, you know, facing an enemy, but then trying 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.600 to chase or hunt down an enemy that you're in 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.720 their backyard. You know, you're going up to these caves, 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.560 and they're well versed in the mountains. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:18.720 You know. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.240 We used to know that if we had an operation 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.439 in the mountains, that we were we were up against 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.480 it in the in the villages, in the in the towns, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.440 not so well trained, but in the mountains where they 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.280 cached all their weapons, they cached all their I D. Stuff, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.760 they case, they cached absolutely everything. They were hardened fighters. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.160 You could tell, you know, you could tell the difference 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.120 of train Soon as I knew that we were hitting 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.760 the mountains and then we had to obviously, you know, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:49.400 scale up the mountain to attack. And then they disappear, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.560 and then you'd look down certain you know, certain caving 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.520 holes and certain tunnels, and you could just tell it 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.880 was I a d central. You know, you wouldn't booby 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.560 trapped up to you. You wouldn't even dare go down there. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.959 So they were so good at that maneuvering and evading. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.880 Sorry, how did you feel, given the time you send 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.520 over there, spent over there, given the fact that your 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.880 lost comrades and friends, how did you feel of that 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.000 scene when we were rushing to get out and people 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.839 were rushing to get on the on the planes. How 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:23.760 did that make you feel? 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.480 Do you know what? On one hand, I felt proud 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:32.600 because twenty years ago, you know, no one was rushing 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.120 to get out of Afghanistan. So when you looked at 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.679 it from a you know, bird's eye view, you think 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.160 to yourself, oh my god, this is absolutely horrendous. You know, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.160 they're holding onto planes, they can't wait to get out. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.640 They weren't doing that twenty years ago. It's only because 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.400 we came in and we started educating their women. We 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.920 started putting schools in for their children, and we started 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.160 building infrastructure. You know, we started giving them clean water, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:03.120 We started painting a normal life for them, So when 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.679 that was stripped away from them, they weren't running from that. 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.080 They were running because they were used to twenty years 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.800 of used to a semi normal life. They were used 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.040 to structure, they were used to a bit of discipline, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.600 they were used to having infrastructure around them, good schools, 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.400 good education, and all of a sudden that's whipped away. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.000 Of course they're going to be running, running for the 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.920 hills because because they know that all of that's going 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.040 to get stripped away from them as well. So on 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.040 one hand, I thought to myself, what are they doing? 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.199 And I almost wanted to, you know, put my hands 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.959 over my eyes and go a cringe, you know, by 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.600 what are you doing? And then on the other hand, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.360 I was just like, look what you created. You know, 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.280 they now know what normality is, and they now know 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.040 what civilization is. You know, they're blessed with that. So ultimately, 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.000 what they're doing is they're fighting for that, which for me, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.679 you know, I took a sense of pride out of 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.800 that because I thought I was part of helping them, 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:00.960 you know, realize what life is all about. 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:06.000 One of my favorite movies, American Sniper, Right, I always 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.520 think about this as how accurate it is as a 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.360 depiction when he's up on this and he's trying to 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.240 get an idea of whether the kids are civilian or 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.120 he's carrying a bomb, and he has to make a 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.760 decision to shoot to save his soldiers or whether they'll 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.280 leave him. Because imagine there's a lot of accountability as 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.040 a leader of a group you in that role, did 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.480 you ever have those especially when you're in Afghanistan, Like, well, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.680 you don't know if they're a threat or you, or 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.520 they're a civilian, and how do you make that choice? 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.920 Absolutely, especially when I went from being so I've done 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 three tours of Afghanistan. One is a section commander in 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.800 the War Marines and then two. Then after I got 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:44.760 back from my first tour of Afghanistan, I went on 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:49.240 Special Forces selection pass and within two weeks of passing selection, 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.640 I went straight back out to Afghanistan as a Special 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:57.440 Forces operator, not a conventional force. Special Forces hunting down 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.560 high value targets, nighttime operatations. Only mvgs go in get 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.800 the job done, you know, harder rest missions where we 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.440 would have to capture certain individuals to get information out 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.000 of them to prevent a bigger devastation from happening. So 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.760 my world sort of turned into this sort of let's 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.120 James Bondie and beyond, you know, and then talk about, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.800 you know, the enemy using women, using children, you know 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.240 these I'll give you an idea of just how how 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.120 far they will go. You know, we we were after 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.920 an ID facilitator high value target HVT. And the reason 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.760 we knew he was in country because what they do 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:39.280 they go over to the border and then they come 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.280 back in organize their troops and they nit back over 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.880 the border where they think they can't be touched. And 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.640 I had a really big ID went off and it 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.800 killed something like eight raw marines. And this ID was 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.080 a kid with a willlborrow as a wheelborrow bomb. But 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.560 a kid in a field, farmer in a field, kid 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.600 in the field, not knowing what he's pushing, pushing it 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.800 past the patrol. The patrol doesn't think anything of it. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.080 You know, it's got haste, hay over it, Boom, the 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.760 whole thing goes up. Children collateral, Right, this child was 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.040 just collateral. Eight dead. And that's just one example of 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.680 making that decision right. They got that wrong that day. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.680 You know, they should just probably have. And it's easy 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.640 to say they probably should have stoped the child anywhere 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.800 near you will burrow, you know, but again, you know, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.880 these are young Marines. You know, they're they're eighteen, nineteen, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.920 twenty years old. You know, they're you know, they're kids themselves, 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.320 so they're just like, yeah, come through, kid. It's the 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.960 same with us. We used to hit targets and we 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.320 used to go into rooms deal with the hvt's sort 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.280 of security. If you wish becauld they, you know, there'd 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.080 be that that'd be our first line that we needed 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.560 to penetrate in order to get to the high value target. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.240 And the closer you got to the to the HVT, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.600 you'd come up against you know, they're just run past, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.359 grab a kid, to give a kid or women. They 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.800 were very good at giving women weapons because what we 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:13.120 do naturally, because we're elite, good soldiers and good men, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.399 we would go in and if it wasn't if it 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.840 was a woman or children, we would naturally and I 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.159 hate doing it. You'd naturally pause, you'd naturally go, what 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.600 will this is? You know, because of the humanity, I suppose, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.879 because of what we've been brought up in society, you know, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.080 to look after our children, to look after our women. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.080 So there was always that and it was one of 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.280 those you know, do I pause and potentially put my 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:40.919 life at risk and my powers life at risk, or 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.879 do I do I neutralize what's in front of me 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.399 that is that is that could potentially take a life. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.760 So I was met against We were met up against 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.320 that all the time, and they were very good at 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:52.399 doing that. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.440 Like can imagine, like I think sometimes now and I've 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:01.480 got a careful word this, but I just don't know 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.560 these days how much incentive there is for young people 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.320 to go into military, given the fact that in the 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.719 society we live, when they come back, they're put in 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.919 those situations like that, and if they make a mistake, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.280 they come back and we've seen situations where they're put 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.399 on war crimes. We have no thought to what the 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:21.960 scenario they've been put into. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.920 Do you know what I've always gone into Because when 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.720 I joined the Special Forces, because I'd done so well 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.359 on selection in the jungles point man, because I just 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.800 loved that vol. I love to be sort of a 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:35.760 leader in my own right, you know, And even though 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.800 I wasn't the team leader, I was leading the team. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.080 So that. I always loved doing that, and I've always 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.320 wanted to, you know, because I know my capability with 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.040 on the battlefield. I'd always say, rather me than someone else, 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.480 because you know, I've just you know, maybe wired a 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.000 little bit differently. You know. I love being point man. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.719 I was really really keen and purposeful and driven to 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.760 to to do what's right as well and being point 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.480 man in the Special Forces, and that the missions that 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.480 we do, we're in firefights every single night. You know, 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.920 there's no doubt about it, you know, whether it's close 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.600 border operations, whether it's you know, in the province itself. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.520 But I always I came up with a with an 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.640 ideology that really really worked for me. Now, I believe 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.800 that no one has the god given right to take life. 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.680 I truly believe that. You know, however, if you think 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.840 that you've got the right to take someone else's life, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:37.440 I will simply deny you that right by taking your life, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.160 therefore saving a life. So it was always I always 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:42.919 So when people say to me and was it like 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.680 taking a life, I'm like, well, I can tell you 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.600 what it's like saving a life. And you know, as 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.400 long as that saving a life was there, then I'd 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.239 have no problem pressing the trigger. And I've been in 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.440 situations before, and you know, we'll go over the situation 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.280 time and time and time again where I've been there 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.840 behind you know, we've breached a compound. I've seen you, 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.320 I've got my MVGS on. I've seen someone in a 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.040 doorway with a weapon and I've had my laser on 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.560 their on their head, you know, and it's and I'm 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.840