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Speaker 1: Appoche Production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.

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Speaker 2: This series we launch into the new world of brave leadership.

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Speaker 3: Happy people create happy businesses.

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Speaker 2: True emotionally intelligent leadership. I picked up vomit once on

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Speaker 2: how about our four flight and everybody thought, well, if

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Speaker 2: it's good enough for him, I can do it.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and

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Speaker 2: some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth

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Speaker 2: behind their brave leadership journeys. Today on the podcast, I'm

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Speaker 2: joined by jesscare, the Queensland Executive Director of the Property

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Speaker 2: Council of Australia, the national body representing Australia's leading.

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Speaker 1: Property owners, developers and investors.

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Speaker 2: Jess has built her career right across the property landscape,

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Speaker 2: from conveyancing and running her own business to senior leadership

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Speaker 2: in industry advocacy. Today she plays a key role in

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Speaker 2: shaping the future of Queensland cities, communities and housing landscape.

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Speaker 2: But beyond the title is someone I know is bold,

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Speaker 2: thoughtful and deeply human and how she leads and that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm excited to sport today. So welcome Jess.

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Speaker 1: Well, what an intro.

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Speaker 2: That's about as good as it's gonna get. Czy you're

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Speaker 2: talking about no, But genuinely, what I love is when

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Speaker 2: I meet people. And it's not because the work relationship, right,

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Speaker 2: it was just, hey, here's a nice person, and you

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Speaker 2: get to speak to someone, and then you find out

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Speaker 2: that you've got this amazing career and you do these

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Speaker 2: amazing things, and I think it made me just go,

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Speaker 2: what a wonderful person. And I'm now super clean to

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Speaker 2: explore your work life and what happens in that, and

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Speaker 2: so thank you for being here. So I wanted to

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Speaker 2: start off by the fact that you mentioned you were

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Speaker 2: born in Northern Territory, not in Brisbane.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm originally from South Australia, but yes, Borer

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory. And then my parents, who are South Australia,

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Speaker 3: took us, me and my brother back to South Australia

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Speaker 3: and I moved to Brisbane a decade ago.

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Speaker 1: So what was life like growing up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I grew up in a small country town

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Speaker 3: down near the Southern Flury Peninsula and Victor Harbor is

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Speaker 3: probably a place people may know.

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Speaker 1: And I grew up in a dairy farming community.

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Speaker 3: So I went to an area school, which is like

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Speaker 3: reception three to year twelve, and you know, you played

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Speaker 3: netbull on the weekend and my dad coached the footy

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Speaker 3: team and everyone kind of knew everyone. So that real

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Speaker 3: sense of community was sort of drilled into me pretty early.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I did find a little

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Speaker 3: bit suffocating. So I got hell out of their.

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Speaker 1: Citizen's quite small. How many numbers when teeny tiny is tiny?

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Speaker 3: Tan?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: You know, I didn't want to want to be a

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Speaker 3: dairy farmer, and I definitely didn't want to marry a farmer.

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Speaker 1: So was that the option?

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Speaker 3: I mean, there was definitely more to it than that,

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Speaker 3: But I feel like, you know, when you're young, that's

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Speaker 3: kind of what it felt like.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, if you had to describe yourself as

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Speaker 2: a sort of teenager, were you a good girl? Were

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Speaker 2: you a naughty girl? Were you kind of a rebellious

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Speaker 2: I just get this feeling you'd have been rebellious?

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Speaker 1: Was I wrong? Well, I'm a middle child, and I

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Speaker 1: would say I was very rebellious. My parents are pretty strict.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a parent of teenagers now, so obviously

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Speaker 3: you reflect from things and in a very different way

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Speaker 3: to when you're actually the tech doing these things. I

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Speaker 3: was good at school, absolutely, and I had lots of

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Speaker 3: leadership roles at school. I've got a great moral compass

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Speaker 3: and that sort of justice piece is really important to me,

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Speaker 3: and chapping rights really important to me. But also I

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Speaker 3: definitely liked to push the boundaries and you know, had

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Speaker 3: rather a large party at my house when my parents

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Speaker 3: went away and someoneed up in hospital and all of these.

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Speaker 1: Kinds of things.

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Speaker 3: But I had my first job too when I was twelve,

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Speaker 3: which was pumping petrol. So I was always really independent

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Speaker 3: and really like.

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Speaker 1: Eager to do more. And I knew if I had

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Speaker 1: a good work ethic and could earn money, I could.

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Speaker 3: Can you work at twelve probably it was highly illegal.

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Speaker 3: It was was twenty five an hour. I was getting

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Speaker 3: to pump petrol and clean people's windscreens, So you know,

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Speaker 3: I worked bloody hard.

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Speaker 1: For that money.

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Speaker 3: I do miss that service, Yeah, you don't miss me

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Speaker 3: cleaning your windows. And funny story, like I'm not very

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Speaker 3: good at maths, right, Like that's definitely my week spot,

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Speaker 3: which is funny because my dad's a maths teacher and

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Speaker 3: they used to get me to mix the two stroke

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Speaker 3: for the boats I reckon. There's probably a few Haines

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Speaker 3: Hunters that I ruined back.

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Speaker 1: In the early nineties in South Australia.

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Speaker 2: Wanting to go to work at twelve. Was that a

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Speaker 2: need to be independent?

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Speaker 3: My dad is the youngest of four. His dad passed

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Speaker 3: away when he was fourteen. My grandmother finished school at

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Speaker 3: twelve to look after her mum, and so she really

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Speaker 3: drilled into them, I guess, the power of a education,

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Speaker 3: but also work are thinking. She lived in what we

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Speaker 3: would call housing draft South Australia, and my dad had

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Speaker 3: this and still does have this incredible work ethic, and

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Speaker 3: so he instilled in all of us in that you know,

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Speaker 3: you work hard.

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Speaker 1: He was really.

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Speaker 3: Obsessed with buying a house and I understand why, having

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Speaker 3: grown up, you know, in social housing, but you know,

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Speaker 3: he works really hard.

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Speaker 1: He ended up building one of the houses that we

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Speaker 1: lived in and still has it. And if you've got

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Speaker 1: a good work care thinking, you've got good communication skills

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Speaker 1: of actually probably not much you can't do.

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Speaker 3: And I love working. There's been times in my life

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Speaker 3: for people go, oh, you work too much. But I

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Speaker 3: love doing something that I love, and I also love

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Speaker 3: the tangible output of it. So being a bit of

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Speaker 3: a workhorse can be a challenge at times because you

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Speaker 3: flog yourself until you know no more. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: definitely been instilled in us from my father, for sure.

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing some real synergies here mentioned in housing and

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Speaker 2: Housing Commission and okay, all right, So when you finish

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Speaker 2: high's school, did you go over sea straight away? Did

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Speaker 2: you get a universe?

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Speaker 1: No? No, no.

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Speaker 3: So I got into university and I got the travel

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Speaker 3: bug right. So during year eleven I worked out that

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Speaker 3: you could do these Lions you know, the Lions programs exchanges,

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Speaker 3: and no one in my family had gone overseas at

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Speaker 3: this point, and I was like, I really just want

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Speaker 3: to see what else there is. And it was really

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Speaker 3: expensive then too. You couldn't jump on a plane now

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Speaker 3: and fly around Australia see your holiday families were you

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Speaker 3: know where your parents to take you. And for us

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Speaker 3: that was quite off in camping, which is not my jam.

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Speaker 3: Because I'd been working, I saved up all this money.

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Speaker 3: I applied for this Lion's exchange program and you could

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Speaker 3: pick from all of these countries and I picked Tahiti Adam.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I could have gone to you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know America wherever. And I was like, Tahiti

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Speaker 1: sounds good and it sounds pretty chill.

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Speaker 2: I to Tahiti, but it's just not what I would

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Speaker 2: have thought.

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Speaker 1: So you meant to go and do some schoolwork and

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Speaker 1: I kind of thought, ah, you know, to be all right.

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Speaker 1: So for the back of the first.

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Speaker 3: Bit of year eleven, I was overseas in Tahiti. I

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Speaker 3: can't speak French, I could get through.

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Speaker 1: By the end of it. That really sort of instilled

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Speaker 1: this bug in me to go. I want to see

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world.

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Speaker 3: So I got into university and my parents are both

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Speaker 3: school teachers, so education has always been really important to them.

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Speaker 3: And I just felt that I wasn't ready to go,

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Speaker 3: and I knew what I would do is I'd probably

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Speaker 3: go find the UNI bar pretty quickly and then drop out.

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Speaker 3: I just didn't want to do that. I didn't wanted

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Speaker 3: to set myself up for failure. So I turned eighteen

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Speaker 3: in the May after I finished year twelve, I bought

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Speaker 3: a one way ticket to London because a friend of

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Speaker 3: a friend knew someone who needed a nanny, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I could do that, and yeah, flew flew all the

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Speaker 3: way to London, and I guess where I grew up.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even have to really drive through traffic lights,

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Speaker 3: if you know what I mean. So I'd got a

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Speaker 3: pretty small town kind of upbringing, and even Adelaide is not.

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Speaker 1: A big capital city.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I got myself a one way ticket to

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Speaker 3: London and it had been in a shock. I remember

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Speaker 3: asking someone to different directions on the Tube and they

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Speaker 3: were so rude to me, and.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay.

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Speaker 3: I came back and I went to Adelaide for a

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Speaker 3: unknown couple of weeks, went wow, this is really small

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Speaker 3: and every good story's got a boy involved.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I met a boy and he was in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: So I decided to move to Melbourne.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's when I started doing specific conveying thing,

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Speaker 3: sort of property law focus on that was working at

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Speaker 3: the same time in Melbourne, and I started working for

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Speaker 3: some property developers and I'm like, this is really cool.

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Speaker 3: I guess the property transaction space really lines up with

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Speaker 3: my personality. It's like organized as a tangible output on

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Speaker 3: the other end. So I naturally sort of fell into it,

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Speaker 3: and I knew I wanted to move back home to

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Speaker 3: South Australia, so I started studying because it's different laws

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Speaker 3: in every state, which is very confusing for lots of people.

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Speaker 3: So making sure I was ready to go back to

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Speaker 3: essay and could you hit the ground there, and I.

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Speaker 1: Did, so you went into convenancing.

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Speaker 2: I mean when I think back to high school when

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Speaker 2: we were finishing and they were running through the potential

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Speaker 2: careers nurse, doctor, teacher, conveyancing. Probably because of your parents'

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Speaker 2: sort of background and housing and what was a drug cut?

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I think I just was drawn to

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Speaker 3: it because of my personality and you know, it's not

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Speaker 3: really anything someone talks about, no.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: And I think when you look at like law as

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Speaker 3: a lamp, there's so many things you can do, and

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Speaker 3: I get, oh, I don't want to go to UNI

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Speaker 3: for this long or I don't want to worry about

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Speaker 3: this bit.

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Speaker 1: And I also, like I said, I like the tangible outcome.

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Speaker 3: And I think now as i've you know, I'm kind

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Speaker 3: of grateful for young jests for thinking about it, because

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Speaker 3: houses property are so interwoven with everything that we do,

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Speaker 3: but evesicually, housing transactions and the most biggest emotional transaction

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Speaker 3: people will make and then obviously there's a transactional element

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Speaker 3: if people are buying, selling, or developing. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I work in a very different landscape now, but I

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Speaker 3: love it and it's been an industry that has given

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Speaker 3: me such a rewarding and fulfilling career.

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Speaker 2: Then obviously twenty five. So if I talk about the

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Speaker 2: brave model, right, b stands for bold, Yeah, And what

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Speaker 2: I tend to find with people I talk to is

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Speaker 2: the boldest thing they kind of do is often in

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Speaker 2: their twenties right where you kind of is it bold

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Speaker 2: or is it just naivety? I don't know which way.

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Speaker 2: So at twenty five you decided to buy your first business?

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: H yah se Wow? So you went out parting at

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Speaker 1: twenty five? No?

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Speaker 3: And I guess because I felt like I lived one

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Speaker 3: thousand lives for the time I come back from Europe.

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Speaker 3: I'm like twenty at that point, right, And the boy

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Speaker 3: that I went to Melbourne Fell wasn't the boy in

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Speaker 3: my life anymore? And shock, yeah, so surprising. But I

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Speaker 3: had my daughter when I was twenty five. I'd been

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Speaker 3: married for about a year, and I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm really good at this conveyancing stuff, and I rolled

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Speaker 3: into the guy who I'd been working for, and I

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Speaker 3: knew that he was looking at a succession planning.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to buy your business, he said

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 3: You know, years later, I kind of knew that if

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Speaker 3: I didn't sell to you, set up across the street and.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be away now, so come, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I wented twenty five and knew nothing about running

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Speaker 3: a business, but the bank lent me the money.

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Speaker 1: Off I went. And it was pretty full on time,

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Speaker 1: for sure, because you're literally building the plane as you're flying.

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Speaker 3: And I wanted to grow. I don't like staying still,

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Speaker 3: so I wanted to expand. I wanted to have all

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Speaker 3: of these great plans. And that was good, but it

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Speaker 3: was tricky.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: My daughter was young, and a couple of years later

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Speaker 3: I had my son, and he was quite sick when

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Speaker 3: he was a baby.

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Speaker 1: And at this point I had three or four officers.

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Speaker 1: I had very.

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Speaker 3: Large volume coming through and complex not just residential buying selling.

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Speaker 3: I was working for large scale farm developers, large scale

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Speaker 3: property developers, so it was big work and it was a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of pressure.

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Speaker 3: And you know, when you own your own business, and

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Speaker 3: you say you don't have partners, it canna be a

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Speaker 3: really lonely place.

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Speaker 2: God, there's just kind of mind blowing to me, Like,

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Speaker 2: twenty five is very young. You know, what was you

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Speaker 2: drawing on to convince the public to come and use

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Speaker 2: your services? Like it's not like they're like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: she's got twenty years experience in the space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the things, like, I love having

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Speaker 3: a connection with people, and I think that's what's made me,

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Speaker 3: in part success. So I'm really good at building relationships

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Speaker 3: and you know, being able to understand what people need,

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Speaker 3: and I think that. But also I bought an established business,

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Speaker 3: which really right as well, right, yes, so it wasn't

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Speaker 3: like I was starting out from scratch. That only helps

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Speaker 3: for so long because then you've got to go and

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Speaker 3: make sure that they trust you. And if you're dealing

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Speaker 3: with particularly say farming transactions, I grew up in the country,

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Speaker 3: so I knew how to speak country to them, so

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Speaker 3: that helps. But you're dealing sometimes with like generational and

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Speaker 3: so change for them is scary. So I think acknowledging

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Speaker 3: that doing what you say you're going to do is

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Speaker 3: really important and just showing up that's something that I

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Speaker 3: always do, and I guess it was just sort of

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Speaker 3: a Nate in me, but my drive and I still

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Speaker 3: have it now. If someone thinks I can't do something,

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Speaker 3: including myself, I will just keep busting until I prove

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Speaker 3: that I can do it.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes that's all I need, is that.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think you do that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I grew up in a pretty

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Speaker 1: overachieving family.

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Speaker 2: That's probably real high standards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've always had, I don't know, relentlessly high

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Speaker 3: standards of myself. I even do now and I'm probably

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Speaker 3: getting a little bit kinder to myself.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it could be a bit of a jerk

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Speaker 2: to myself. So yeah, So how long did you run

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Speaker 2: your own business?

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Speaker 1: For?

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Speaker 3: For?

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Speaker 1: Ten years? Too years? I hold the businesses in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen, after I had a pretty life changing

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Speaker 1: sort of event.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what am I doing this for? And

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Speaker 3: it was really scary, but also it was really empowering.

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Speaker 3: But then at the same time, I'd been so defined

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Speaker 3: that was my identity, and so then also I moved

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Speaker 3: states as well, which I think probably made it easier

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Speaker 3: to be honest.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, quite typically people doing their coopate careers. Then they

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Speaker 2: go through that moment where they decide to I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to work for myself.

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Speaker 1: And if you decided to do it in reverse, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's really weird.

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Speaker 3: And then I did really struggle with well will I

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Speaker 3: ever get a corporate job, Like, who's going to want

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Speaker 3: to hire me? I've got really great friends, and you know,

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Speaker 3: there was a sort of a chance encounter where a

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Speaker 3: company that my company had to use, so there's a

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Speaker 3: digital settlement platform I had approached me and said, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're moving to Queensland, we need someone like you. And

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Speaker 3: I'm like, you don't want someone like me. I don't

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Speaker 3: know about this corporate stuff. And then I don't know,

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Speaker 3: you understand our program, but you also understand what it

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Speaker 3: takes to run these businesses and so we need someone

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Speaker 3: who can talk to the client who is you know,

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Speaker 3: people like you. And so I got a chance to

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Speaker 3: work at Pexer after probably about starting my businesses six

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Speaker 3: months seven months later, and I'd moved up here, and

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Speaker 3: because I was a new landscape been in Queensland before,

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Speaker 3: I felt like I was starting at zero. But like

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Speaker 3: I said, I love that because it means I've got

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Speaker 3: no other option but to just drive failure is not

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Speaker 3: an option. And I was really proud of the work

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Speaker 3: that I got to do there. And it's funny having

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Speaker 3: your first sort of corporate job at thirty five. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and when everyone else is bailing out to go start

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Speaker 3: the rat firms or things like that.

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Speaker 2: So you say, obviously it sounds like you love change. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, I quite like changed to actually. But

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Speaker 2: at the same token, was there a moment you recall

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Speaker 2: sort of coming home and being like, I'm out of my.

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Speaker 1: Depth here or I don't feel I can do this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, Because pets are two lots of you know,

344
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Speaker 3: ex bankers, and they use all these acronyms, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they're talking about half the time,

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Speaker 3: and I had to go and ask my boss like what

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Speaker 3: does this mean? And he's just laughs and he goes.

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Speaker 3: But I love that you ask mobte people wouldn't laugh.

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Speaker 3: You just sort of fumble your way through. I think

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Speaker 3: it was overwhelming, but I knew I had to carve

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Speaker 3: a spot out for myself really quickly, and I did

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Speaker 3: that really quickly and built really great relationships there and

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Speaker 3: built great relationships with our external stakeholders, which has held

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Speaker 3: me in really good stead for the work that I

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Speaker 3: do now. But yeah, it was definitely overwhelming because they

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Speaker 3: do this, you know, have big corporate off sites and

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Speaker 3: they do all these things and you have to go

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Speaker 3: through all these approval processes. And my boss said to

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Speaker 3: me at the time, he goes, I love watching you

360
00:14:01,961 --> 00:14:04,761
Speaker 3: try to navigate the approval processes because you kind of

361
00:14:04,841 --> 00:14:06,441
Speaker 3: die and you just go for it and then you

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Speaker 3: seek forgiveness. And I go, well, yeah, because you probably

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Speaker 3: get about six months before they they say, that's not

364
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Speaker 3: how we do things because it's so different to how

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Speaker 3: I'd worked, and you understand why.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of your.

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Speaker 3: Deficiencies that can be caused by arbitrary approval processes.

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Speaker 1: So I just bossed my way through.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it sounds like you if you think about resilience, right,

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Speaker 2: which in me says the obstacles are of the path,

371
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Speaker 2: like you can't avoid.

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Speaker 1: It, like it's going to come up out.

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Speaker 2: Because in the world you work and it's constant, it's

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Speaker 2: high pressure, it can be all the tile times. What's

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Speaker 2: your go to for keeping yourself? I mean, you're a

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Speaker 2: mom as well, you're a wife, Yeah, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: a lot of things. So how do you sort of

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Speaker 2: keep yourself grounded or how does our overwhelm not come?

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Speaker 1: And for you if it does come to you, what

380
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Speaker 1: are your strategy for dealing with it? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I've gotten better.

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Speaker 3: Like I thrive in a bit of chaos or not,

383
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Speaker 3: Like I'm a very organized, structured person.

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Speaker 1: But I also like it when people think that you

385
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Speaker 1: can't do it.

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Speaker 3: Like I love when there's like zeral theme here and

387
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Speaker 3: that's the bit and I focus and I focus on

388
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Speaker 3: that relentlessly. I'll externally say it out loud because that

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Speaker 3: gives me that external accountability. You know, we're going to

390
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Speaker 3: drive for that, and I know that feels impossible. What

391
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Speaker 3: we're going to keep it And if you can sort

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Speaker 3: of bring people along the journey, that's the best part.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I love about my job at the

394
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Speaker 1: moment is I don't do these things in isolation.

395
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Speaker 3: I've got a great division council. We've got thro under

396
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Speaker 3: and thirty committees, and when you can start to see them,

397
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Speaker 3: they lift and it becomes this incredible movement.

398
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Speaker 1: Like that's magic. That's yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can't articulate how amazing that feels when

400
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Speaker 3: you're all driving towards the same outcome. And that's what

401
00:15:37,761 --> 00:15:40,201
Speaker 3: I love about my job. But I guess the overwhelm,

402
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Speaker 3: you know, I've definitely had periods in.

403
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Speaker 1: My life where I've burnt myself out. I don't allow

404
00:15:44,201 --> 00:15:46,761
Speaker 1: myself to relax because I'm worried that I might become lazy.

405
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Speaker 1: And you know, what does lazy look like?

406
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Speaker 3: And is sitting on the couch for thirty minutes watching

407
00:15:51,001 --> 00:15:53,561
Speaker 3: some nonsense, really lazy, jess Or is that actually what

408
00:15:53,641 --> 00:15:55,441
Speaker 3: you know you should be doing? So I really had

409
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Speaker 3: to challenge myself with that, and that's still something I

410
00:15:58,081 --> 00:16:02,001
Speaker 3: constantly sort of battle with, giving myself permission to do nothing.

411
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Speaker 1: And I guess the.

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Speaker 3: Overwhelm, you know, I, like everyone sonights wake up in

413
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Speaker 3: the middle of the night and go, shit, how are

414
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Speaker 3: we going to do this?

415
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Speaker 1: But I think you surround yourself with really good people.

416
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Speaker 1: I'm so lucky to have so many either formal mentors

417
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Speaker 1: or informal mentors.

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Speaker 3: Great friends through both work and personal life where you

419
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Speaker 3: can discuss these things. And I feel like once you

420
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Speaker 3: get it out of your head and you realize it's

421
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Speaker 3: actually not that bad, you.

422
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Speaker 1: Know, So definitely.

423
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Speaker 2: Yeah, having that great support network, I completely agree. M Obviously,

424
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Speaker 2: you've got extremely high standards for yourself, right, which is great.

425
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Speaker 2: It drives you, and I love the bit where you

426
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Speaker 2: kind of you use it to inspire others that would

427
00:16:36,681 --> 00:16:37,161
Speaker 2: inspire me.

428
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Speaker 1: I love leaders that want to take me to that

429
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Speaker 1: next level.

430
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Speaker 2: But is there ever a risk? We like, how do

431
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Speaker 2: you not impose that by center on everybody?

432
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Speaker 1: Like?

433
00:16:44,641 --> 00:16:46,321
Speaker 2: Can people never meet your expectations?

434
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Speaker 3: It's a really interesting question because I don't say any

435
00:16:48,721 --> 00:16:50,001
Speaker 3: expectations of everyone else.

436
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Speaker 1: I mean, I have a this is your job role.

437
00:16:51,881 --> 00:16:53,681
Speaker 1: You come to work and you perform your job role.

438
00:16:53,961 --> 00:16:56,121
Speaker 3: But I don't put the expectations I have on myself

439
00:16:56,161 --> 00:16:58,361
Speaker 3: on anyone else because for me, it's kind of like

440
00:16:58,441 --> 00:16:59,121
Speaker 3: so personal.

441
00:16:59,161 --> 00:17:00,641
Speaker 1: It's like this thing inside of myself.

442
00:17:00,681 --> 00:17:02,841
Speaker 3: And you know, years ago it was like, Okay, well

443
00:17:02,961 --> 00:17:04,281
Speaker 3: if you do this, you'll be smart enough.

444
00:17:04,481 --> 00:17:05,241
Speaker 1: Now I don't do that.

445
00:17:05,321 --> 00:17:07,721
Speaker 3: Now, It's like, this is you stretching and growing and

446
00:17:07,761 --> 00:17:09,201
Speaker 3: pushing yourself to the next thing.

447
00:17:09,241 --> 00:17:09,801
Speaker 1: You can do it.

448
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 3: Think of all the hard things you've done before. I

449
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:14,360
Speaker 3: certainly don't hold other people to that standard because I

450
00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:17,201
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on anyone else's in their brain,

451
00:17:17,241 --> 00:17:20,161
Speaker 3: in their psyche, and I think that's really where expectations

452
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,321
Speaker 3: of ourselves come from, is that internal computiment. I have

453
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 3: definitely got a lot more empathetic and considered. When people

454
00:17:27,201 --> 00:17:29,481
Speaker 3: arrive and they show up, there's always so much more

455
00:17:29,521 --> 00:17:31,400
Speaker 3: going on than what actually comes out of their mouth

456
00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:34,561
Speaker 3: or rey present in body language. So I'm really curious

457
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,041
Speaker 3: about that. And I think I like listening and watching,

458
00:17:38,321 --> 00:17:40,201
Speaker 3: and that's how I know how to interact with someone.

459
00:17:40,241 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 3: People tell you how to interact with them, Yeah, like

460
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,601
Speaker 3: reading the room quite often not.

461
00:17:43,561 --> 00:17:45,321
Speaker 1: By what they say, by how they Yeah.

462
00:17:45,321 --> 00:17:47,561
Speaker 3: And I think that's a skill I've always had and

463
00:17:47,561 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 3: I've always been able to draw on that and build

464
00:17:49,721 --> 00:17:49,920
Speaker 3: on that.

465
00:17:50,001 --> 00:17:51,521
Speaker 1: And that's something that if.

466
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 3: There's someone who's notoriously difficult to deal with, give me

467
00:17:54,561 --> 00:17:55,201
Speaker 3: that person.

468
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,321
Speaker 2: That is such a great insight. And I don't actually

469
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: always get this point made by a lot of people,

470
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 2: but the ability to read the room and read people

471
00:18:05,201 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 2: masterful skill, because to your point, doesn't matter whether you're

472
00:18:07,201 --> 00:18:08,601
Speaker 2: the easiest person to get on with all the most

473
00:18:08,681 --> 00:18:10,641
Speaker 2: difficult You're like, I could meet them.

474
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: With her at yeah, hundred percent.

475
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 3: And this is a bit where I used to be

476
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,041
Speaker 3: really frightened about being vulnerable, and I've gotten much better

477
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 3: as I've gotten older. When I was at twenty five

478
00:18:17,921 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 3: year old, you know, wreck at Ralph bouncing through opening

479
00:18:21,241 --> 00:18:24,001
Speaker 3: businesses and having no idea what she was doing, I'd

480
00:18:24,001 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 3: never wanted to say I need help, or I never

481
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,241
Speaker 3: wanted to say I might not know what I'm doing.

482
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,001
Speaker 3: Now I'll say I could be wrong. I frequently am

483
00:18:32,281 --> 00:18:35,761
Speaker 3: can you help me understand this card? Or Hey, I

484
00:18:35,801 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 3: really know that engagement that you've had with us previously

485
00:18:38,681 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 3: might not have been great.

486
00:18:39,961 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about it? And how do we

487
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 1: work through? So I think in the minute, you.

488
00:18:42,961 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 3: Kind of disarm through your own vulnerability or acknowledge the

489
00:18:46,201 --> 00:18:48,721
Speaker 3: elefit in the room makes everyone.

490
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,441
Speaker 1: Just feel a little bit more. I love that.

491
00:18:50,481 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 2: It's very brave of you. Yeah, and it comes to

492
00:18:52,481 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: the age right as well, Like I don't know if

493
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,961
Speaker 2: it's so easy in the twenties, but now because you

494
00:18:56,001 --> 00:18:57,801
Speaker 2: don't know what you don't know, I look back now

495
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 2: and go, oh my god, I feel like an entirely

496
00:18:59,441 --> 00:19:01,561
Speaker 2: different person to that twenty five year old kid who

497
00:19:01,561 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 2: had a kid.

498
00:19:03,001 --> 00:19:04,801
Speaker 3: And a business, you know, all of those things who

499
00:19:04,801 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: were my maybe sisters are my children as well in

500
00:19:06,761 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 3: a certain way, because it's your livelihood. You've got that

501
00:19:09,721 --> 00:19:12,441
Speaker 3: youthful naivity. You've got such a big risk appetype because

502
00:19:12,441 --> 00:19:14,561
Speaker 3: you feel like you've got a lot less to lose. Yeah,

503
00:19:14,761 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 3: which is silly, because you know, my family would reliant

504
00:19:16,921 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 3: upon me being successful in all of those things, but

505
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 3: in a way that you kin't want to bottle that

506
00:19:21,481 --> 00:19:23,241
Speaker 3: because you still want to have a risk appetype. But yeah,

507
00:19:23,321 --> 00:19:26,041
Speaker 3: as you get older in your life experiences, you know,

508
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,360
Speaker 3: get a little bit more sensible.

509
00:19:27,801 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned vulnerability before, which is great, so I don't

510
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,561
Speaker 2: even have to bring it up because you're already on

511
00:19:32,561 --> 00:19:34,521
Speaker 2: the V word, which is all some Obviously, I'm not

512
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,360
Speaker 2: deeply familiar with the industry you working, but what I

513
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: do know is I see plenty of posts of just

514
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 2: care at these big public events, standing in these crowds

515
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,201
Speaker 2: with very important people. There's a line that crosses over

516
00:19:45,241 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 2: politics and the space that you work in, which I

517
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,681
Speaker 2: wouldn't say is naturally always known as a very vulnerable environment.

518
00:19:50,961 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: How easy is it for you to show up really

519
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,401
Speaker 2: authentically and be yourself or is there an element where

520
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,521
Speaker 2: you do need to not say things you want to

521
00:19:57,521 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 2: say sometimes because it won't work out. Obviously, there's always

522
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: a degree of that. And then like, you know, how

523
00:20:02,761 --> 00:20:04,521
Speaker 2: vulnerable can you be at work? Like there are times

524
00:20:04,561 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: where you have feel you can't be.

525
00:20:06,001 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely if you said to me ten years ago,

526
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,881
Speaker 3: this would be my job. And I still think I'm

527
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 3: a terrible public speaker. Even six years ago it sounded

528
00:20:13,681 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 3: like I was about to cry every time my public spoach,

529
00:20:15,921 --> 00:20:18,201
Speaker 3: and that public is in part I was about to cry,

530
00:20:18,201 --> 00:20:21,001
Speaker 3: and I'd get so nervous, funny, and so what I

531
00:20:21,041 --> 00:20:23,321
Speaker 3: have done is go, okay, cool. The feeling that you

532
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 3: give yourself in that moment, you get so hard on yourself,

533
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,640
Speaker 3: but it's going to be over and people aren't thinking

534
00:20:28,681 --> 00:20:30,481
Speaker 3: about you afterwards as much as you think you're thinking

535
00:20:30,481 --> 00:20:30,881
Speaker 3: about them.

536
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,241
Speaker 1: So I really sort of leant into that.

537
00:20:32,321 --> 00:20:34,881
Speaker 3: But I love a conversational style component, and that's one

538
00:20:34,921 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 3: part of my job I love, and I get to

539
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,881
Speaker 3: interview these great people and make it feel like it's

540
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,801
Speaker 3: just me and them on the couch, and that's what

541
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 3: I've loved, particularly with the politicians, because I try to

542
00:20:43,201 --> 00:20:46,321
Speaker 3: make it as human as more. There is tough spots

543
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,761
Speaker 3: in my job absolutely, because we're in a policy environment where,

544
00:20:49,801 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 3: you know, we're a member based organization, so you're advocating

545
00:20:53,001 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 3: for your members, you know, with the view that you're

546
00:20:55,201 --> 00:20:58,241
Speaker 3: championing for this sort of strong, thriving property industry which

547
00:20:58,281 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 3: is so important for our economy and for society, and

548
00:21:01,481 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 3: you're generally not always going to agree. Nine times out

549
00:21:03,721 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 3: of ten, you're not going to agree with some of

550
00:21:05,041 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 3: the policies that come out of government, so you've got

551
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,041
Speaker 3: to have this respectful engagement with them.

552
00:21:09,321 --> 00:21:09,481
Speaker 1: You know.

553
00:21:09,521 --> 00:21:11,961
Speaker 3: I pride myself on that, but there's been certain times

554
00:21:12,001 --> 00:21:14,961
Speaker 3: where it's been more challenging. Like last year's election campaign

555
00:21:15,041 --> 00:21:17,281
Speaker 3: was pretty brutal, and it was my first year in

556
00:21:17,321 --> 00:21:18,681
Speaker 3: the job, and I felt like I had to come

557
00:21:18,681 --> 00:21:21,321
Speaker 3: out of the gates really strong and prove myself to

558
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,561
Speaker 3: the industry because they'd had, you know, years and years

559
00:21:23,561 --> 00:21:25,681
Speaker 3: of great succession planning. I didn't want to let them

560
00:21:25,681 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: down in this important year. And that really took a

561
00:21:27,961 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 3: toll on me because I learned the brutality of politics

562
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 3: a pretty senior politician. It felt like quite personal potshots

563
00:21:35,441 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 3: on me. I was like, oh man, I'm not ready

564
00:21:37,441 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 3: for this. There's lots of tears, and I've told you

565
00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 3: the story. I'm cried in the Premier's office because it

566
00:21:42,481 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 3: had gotten too much for me and I hadn't been

567
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:46,481
Speaker 3: out of let it out because I had to put

568
00:21:46,481 --> 00:21:48,041
Speaker 3: on this, you know, brave face.

569
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: And I can tell you now it wasn't my finest moment.

570
00:21:51,201 --> 00:21:53,281
Speaker 2: What was the reaction you got with got emotional?

571
00:21:53,441 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 1: Just absolute compassion.

572
00:21:55,041 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: There was compassion absolutely.

573
00:21:56,441 --> 00:21:59,161
Speaker 3: Because I'm not a politician, I didn't sign yeah that mad,

574
00:21:59,241 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 3: that was what I said. I'm like, this feels like

575
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,441
Speaker 3: it's meant to be politician to politician. I'm an advocacy group,

576
00:22:04,481 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: you know.

577
00:22:04,801 --> 00:22:06,521
Speaker 1: And it was a really tough time.

578
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: But also through that, I think I gave myself like

579
00:22:09,441 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 3: it's actually okay to feel like that. And because I

580
00:22:11,521 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 3: care so much, I used to think crying was a

581
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:17,481
Speaker 3: bit of a weakness, particularly publicly. But yeah, there's times

582
00:22:17,481 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 3: where you know, we old tearbusts out. So it's not

583
00:22:19,721 --> 00:22:21,521
Speaker 3: giving you a thick skin, I guess, is what I'm asking.

584
00:22:21,561 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 3: I've gotten better and not caring what people think about me, right,

585
00:22:24,921 --> 00:22:27,561
Speaker 3: But of course I always care if my members are

586
00:22:27,561 --> 00:22:29,681
Speaker 3: thinking that I am I doing the right thing for them.

587
00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:32,441
Speaker 3: My fundamentally before me the core functions of my role.

588
00:22:32,521 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 3: I deeply care about that. But I also deeply care

589
00:22:35,281 --> 00:22:37,521
Speaker 3: about standing up for what's right. Yeah, and I think

590
00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 3: that was a bit of a combination of all of

591
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,081
Speaker 3: that sort of happening.

592
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,721
Speaker 1: But I don't think I've gotten a thick skin.

593
00:22:41,801 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: I don't ever want to have a thick skin where

594
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,321
Speaker 3: I don't care about things or That's what makes me

595
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: good at my job is I'm fueled by passion and

596
00:22:48,281 --> 00:22:51,121
Speaker 3: fueled by driving good outcomes. And if that ever stops,

597
00:22:51,201 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: then it means it's time to move on.

598
00:22:53,201 --> 00:22:56,281
Speaker 2: You know, my last few interviews, I've asked people, you know,

599
00:22:56,281 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 2: how do you sleep at night? And they're like totally fine, Like,

600
00:22:58,721 --> 00:23:00,001
Speaker 2: just go to bed, put my head in the pillow,

601
00:23:00,001 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: don't even I used to look at them like really,

602
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,321
Speaker 2: And they were talking to me about their ability to

603
00:23:04,441 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 2: let go of things, which is not a strength of mine.

604
00:23:06,961 --> 00:23:08,281
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about yourself?

605
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:12,041
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I'm a reformed Russia, a recovering perfectionist and

606
00:23:12,681 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: really trying to be a recovering ruminator.

607
00:23:14,761 --> 00:23:18,041
Speaker 1: Wow, so don't I'm not feeling good. Sleep's a good thing, So.

608
00:23:18,201 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 3: I ruminate like no one's business, right, But I really

609
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,681
Speaker 3: hard to stop because actually rob yourself of the good

610
00:23:24,681 --> 00:23:27,281
Speaker 3: things you do. I have had the privilege of interviewing

611
00:23:27,321 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: some incredible people.

612
00:23:29,481 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: Mark my words.

613
00:23:30,241 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 3: The premiere will not remember if you slipped up on

614
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,681
Speaker 3: a word or a pronunciation. No, it's the whole part

615
00:23:35,721 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: of the interview. Yeah is magic, and you get all

616
00:23:37,921 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 3: this feedback. People don't give you good feedback for shits

617
00:23:40,441 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 3: and giggles. They give you good feedback because they genuinely

618
00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:44,561
Speaker 3: go out of their way because they want to give

619
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:44,921
Speaker 3: it to you.

620
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,601
Speaker 1: That's actually harder to get.

621
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,601
Speaker 3: So I think if you're getting good feedback, you're like, well,

622
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 3: obviously did that. Well, don't let that little voice inside

623
00:23:51,201 --> 00:23:52,521
Speaker 3: your head come back and be like, oh my god,

624
00:23:52,561 --> 00:23:53,041
Speaker 3: you said.

625
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: That word wrong.

626
00:23:53,481 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 3: You're an idiot, because they're just robbing yourself of the

627
00:23:56,441 --> 00:23:59,801
Speaker 3: entire kind of component. So I've really gotten better at saying, Jess,

628
00:23:59,801 --> 00:24:01,841
Speaker 3: shut up. I've done a great job. The facts are

629
00:24:02,321 --> 00:24:05,001
Speaker 3: the feedback's telling you this. If there's feedback on area

630
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 3: to improve, I love that because it means I can

631
00:24:07,201 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 3: focus on something that's really tangible. But ruminating is like

632
00:24:10,681 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: the worst And as I said, no one's actually thinking

633
00:24:13,241 --> 00:24:15,761
Speaker 3: about you and your stuff up as much as you

634
00:24:15,801 --> 00:24:16,321
Speaker 3: think they are.

635
00:24:16,801 --> 00:24:19,561
Speaker 1: They're busy worrying about their own but what's it achieving?

636
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,521
Speaker 2: Also, Like energy is finite in a day, and I'm

637
00:24:22,561 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: trying myself to be like, why am I giving so

638
00:24:24,761 --> 00:24:25,521
Speaker 2: much energy.

639
00:24:25,241 --> 00:24:26,641
Speaker 1: To the step right now? Stuff?

640
00:24:26,681 --> 00:24:28,721
Speaker 3: It's really hard content work, it is, And it comes

641
00:24:28,761 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: back to that. You know, I'm not good enough for

642
00:24:30,681 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 3: all of those kind of you know, for me, I

643
00:24:32,521 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 3: never want to be like a win cow. Humility is

644
00:24:34,921 --> 00:24:37,201
Speaker 3: really important to me. So if I love myself sick

645
00:24:37,241 --> 00:24:40,041
Speaker 3: for doing a great job, I don't want people to

646
00:24:40,041 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: think I'm obnoxious or any of those things. So I

647
00:24:42,041 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: really struggle with that, and I think that all comes back.

648
00:24:43,721 --> 00:24:45,641
Speaker 3: You know, grew up in a house. You know, it's

649
00:24:45,721 --> 00:24:49,161
Speaker 3: very humble and you don't brag about things, but it's

650
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: okay to actually, yeah, I've done some really cool stuff

651
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: and I'm really proud of myself.

652
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,801
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that can even just be to yourself. You know.

653
00:24:56,001 --> 00:24:57,441
Speaker 2: I was going to talk to you about self compassion

654
00:24:57,441 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: because I think when it comes to empathy, you know,

655
00:24:59,801 --> 00:25:03,281
Speaker 2: giving empathy to others can feel so much easier than

656
00:25:03,281 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: holding it for yourself. Yeah, And I know there's been

657
00:25:06,041 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: times where I've stuffed up and made mistakes that in

658
00:25:08,201 --> 00:25:11,001
Speaker 2: a narrative, it's just so critical. I'd never speak to

659
00:25:11,041 --> 00:25:13,041
Speaker 2: my friends the way I speak to myself. And I'm

660
00:25:13,041 --> 00:25:15,201
Speaker 2: really working on and doing a better job in those

661
00:25:15,241 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: moments where things go wrong inevitably avalent be kinder to

662
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,641
Speaker 2: yourself or is it still a work?

663
00:25:19,681 --> 00:25:21,921
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's still the massive work in progress. Like I'm

664
00:25:21,961 --> 00:25:25,041
Speaker 3: a real jerk to myself, something I'm much more aware

665
00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: of some once you're aware of it.

666
00:25:26,681 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: Like ten years ago, I didn't even know that I

667
00:25:28,241 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: was doing it. I just thought it was normal to

668
00:25:29,441 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: be horrible to yourself. Yeah, right, Whereas now I challenge

669
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: it and go, actually, is this true? Or you know,

670
00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:36,041
Speaker 1: all of those types of things.

671
00:25:36,041 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 3: But even like something massive happens in my life, I

672
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,201
Speaker 3: still don't go, oh, you'd be so proud. My instant

673
00:25:42,201 --> 00:25:45,401
Speaker 3: thought is could this bit better? And so it's challenging

674
00:25:45,441 --> 00:25:48,001
Speaker 3: that that stuff as well. So yeah, I think that's

675
00:25:48,001 --> 00:25:49,561
Speaker 3: a work in progress. And I have no men suffer

676
00:25:49,561 --> 00:25:52,681
Speaker 3: from women really really suffer from this, and I think

677
00:25:52,681 --> 00:25:53,761
Speaker 3: the more we talk about it.

678
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: But also that's why it's so important.

679
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 3: If you do see someone doing such a great job

680
00:25:57,521 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: or you see them doing something that they've challenged themselves,

681
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,281
Speaker 3: go give them their feedback.

682
00:26:01,321 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: It's really easy for us to be critical.

683
00:26:03,801 --> 00:26:05,521
Speaker 3: It's easy for someone to bang out and are email

684
00:26:05,561 --> 00:26:07,761
Speaker 3: and say that was really disappointing. Well, people think, God,

685
00:26:07,761 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 3: that was a great experience, but they won't actually follow

686
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: through with their feedback because I think I try to

687
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 3: do now. I say, hey, that was really great. You

688
00:26:13,681 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: did a really great job on that. You'd be really

689
00:26:15,281 --> 00:26:17,321
Speaker 3: proud of yourself. If you've seen someone who's really worked

690
00:26:17,321 --> 00:26:19,321
Speaker 3: hard at that, you send them a text after it's

691
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: going you nailed it, well done. That's the kind of

692
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,321
Speaker 3: stuff and people do that for me and it fills

693
00:26:23,321 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: my bucket.

694
00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: Oh make sure you're.

695
00:26:25,041 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: Paying that stuff for great, great tip, because I do

696
00:26:28,481 --> 00:26:31,521
Speaker 2: think that certainly in that leader manager dynamic, we talk

697
00:26:31,561 --> 00:26:33,321
Speaker 2: all the time about the importance of feedback, but I

698
00:26:33,321 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: think you get to a certainly voy like do you

699
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: need it? You absolutely need it?

700
00:26:36,281 --> 00:26:36,921
Speaker 1: Do you need it more?

701
00:26:37,041 --> 00:26:39,321
Speaker 2: I agree? I agree. Someone says something nice the other

702
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,321
Speaker 2: day about an old podcast that she said, oh, that

703
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: was always a favorite, and I looked at them and

704
00:26:43,481 --> 00:26:45,241
Speaker 2: I just had that moment where I was like, oh,

705
00:26:45,241 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 2: it's peen so long, Yeah, because I work for myself,

706
00:26:47,721 --> 00:26:50,481
Speaker 2: so it's like where I don't get feedback and as.

707
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,281
Speaker 3: I felt like that exact same way when I own

708
00:26:52,281 --> 00:26:54,481
Speaker 3: my businesses, You're like, it's feedback of one.

709
00:26:54,561 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: It's me.

710
00:26:55,521 --> 00:26:57,481
Speaker 3: I want people to tell me where I'm doing well,

711
00:26:57,521 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 3: but also what I can be doing better. A little

712
00:26:59,961 --> 00:27:02,601
Speaker 3: text can just change the truth area of someone's day

713
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,721
Speaker 3: or stop that inner voice, which you know we've all got.

714
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,041
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes the hesitation doing is like, oh,

715
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: does someone really want to hear that?

716
00:27:09,201 --> 00:27:10,041
Speaker 1: Or is there any point in that.

717
00:27:10,041 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: It's like they do, they want to hear it?

718
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely do. I love it.

719
00:27:12,481 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: Give you positive feedback three times a week to just

720
00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:16,881
Speaker 2: whoever you interact with. I think that's imagine it being

721
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: from like not a stranger, but someone you don't know

722
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,241
Speaker 2: that well too that we feel as that.

723
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 3: Has happened to us sometimes at Property Council, you know,

724
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 3: we pull off a really great event and someone who

725
00:27:25,201 --> 00:27:27,161
Speaker 3: we might not be as close to send a really

726
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,761
Speaker 3: great email to the team and you go, that means

727
00:27:29,761 --> 00:27:31,881
Speaker 3: so much because it takes an effort, take I'm out

728
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: of someone's day to go and do that, and you know,

729
00:27:34,001 --> 00:27:36,281
Speaker 3: and that's the kind of feedback that actually means an

730
00:27:36,281 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: awful lot.

731
00:27:37,001 --> 00:27:39,521
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about the juggle. And I say

732
00:27:39,521 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: this because I think I'm naturally drawn to people. I

733
00:27:42,321 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: think women who I'm an ambitious person, right, That's just

734
00:27:45,921 --> 00:27:47,721
Speaker 2: the way I am. But I am also a mum

735
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: and I'm still or I probably even more now with

736
00:27:50,521 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: my new company, struggling to get the balance right. Like

737
00:27:53,321 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: I just told you when you arrived here, mum stuffed

738
00:27:55,481 --> 00:27:58,201
Speaker 2: up around Christmas school concert. A lot of guilt comes

739
00:27:58,201 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: with that. I guess I'm always on the search for

740
00:28:00,521 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: someone who's going to tell me that they've got it right.

741
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 3: I'm not your girl, firstly, I want to say, and

742
00:28:06,481 --> 00:28:09,441
Speaker 3: I'm taking this from MEA fragment balances bullshit. We've been

743
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,201
Speaker 3: programmed to think there's this beautiful equalibrim and you will

744
00:28:12,241 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 3: reach it, you won't.

745
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: You know. As my kids get older and now my

746
00:28:15,241 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: daughter's going to ten, eighteen, and a few weeks time

747
00:28:16,961 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: my son's going to be fifteen, it felt like yesterday

748
00:28:19,441 --> 00:28:21,521
Speaker 1: they was this squidgy little bubbers and I was tacking

749
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,361
Speaker 1: him into bed and they needed me for everything.

750
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 3: They need me less now, but they need me in

751
00:28:25,521 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 3: different ways and probably more sometimes more emotionally demanding ways,

752
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,161
Speaker 3: because big people big problems, little people little problems.

753
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: And so I think you kind of just have to

754
00:28:35,041 --> 00:28:37,001
Speaker 1: all what I've tried to do is just meet each

755
00:28:37,041 --> 00:28:38,881
Speaker 1: stage that they're at with the.

756
00:28:38,761 --> 00:28:41,081
Speaker 3: Best that I can do. Noting that and I say

757
00:28:41,081 --> 00:28:42,881
Speaker 3: this to my daughter all the time. I've never had

758
00:28:42,921 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: a seventeen year old before. I'm doing the best I

759
00:28:45,001 --> 00:28:47,081
Speaker 3: can with what I've got. I'm definitely not always going

760
00:28:47,121 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: to get it right, but know that I love you

761
00:28:49,001 --> 00:28:51,081
Speaker 3: and the decisions I'm making are because I love you

762
00:28:51,121 --> 00:28:52,281
Speaker 3: and I want you to be safe and all of

763
00:28:52,321 --> 00:28:52,841
Speaker 3: those things.

764
00:28:53,441 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: I work way too much, Like I'm quite off of

765
00:28:55,241 --> 00:28:56,401
Speaker 1: wall work till midnight.

766
00:28:56,121 --> 00:28:58,081
Speaker 3: But I do that because I have a deep sense

767
00:28:58,121 --> 00:28:59,761
Speaker 3: of you know, this is what I want to be

768
00:28:59,801 --> 00:29:02,161
Speaker 3: able to do. I think it's hard, and I think

769
00:29:02,201 --> 00:29:04,401
Speaker 3: we have this idea we have to have, like I said,

770
00:29:04,401 --> 00:29:07,001
Speaker 3: that balance, but we also live in a society now

771
00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:10,881
Speaker 3: where we're always constantly on it, constantly can be accessed,

772
00:29:10,961 --> 00:29:12,561
Speaker 3: and that's the bit where I think we need to

773
00:29:12,561 --> 00:29:14,121
Speaker 3: find a way to get back to that. So eating

774
00:29:14,161 --> 00:29:16,841
Speaker 3: dinner together is really important for me where possible. My

775
00:29:16,881 --> 00:29:19,801
Speaker 3: son's got basketball and my husband travels a lot for work,

776
00:29:19,881 --> 00:29:21,961
Speaker 3: but I certainly don't have it all together.

777
00:29:22,041 --> 00:29:24,401
Speaker 1: And some days my kids would probably say I'm horrible mum.

778
00:29:24,481 --> 00:29:26,681
Speaker 1: But in the main we're doing a pretty good job.

779
00:29:26,721 --> 00:29:28,921
Speaker 1: You know. If we have two kids who brush their

780
00:29:28,961 --> 00:29:31,201
Speaker 1: teeth and they have a lunch books full of food,

781
00:29:31,241 --> 00:29:33,601
Speaker 1: and they know I love them deeply, and their stepdad

782
00:29:33,601 --> 00:29:35,401
Speaker 1: loves them deeply, and their dad loves them deeply, and

783
00:29:35,441 --> 00:29:38,041
Speaker 1: we built a beautiful like life and have a home

784
00:29:38,081 --> 00:29:40,361
Speaker 1: that feels warm, and I think we got to go

785
00:29:40,361 --> 00:29:41,721
Speaker 1: a little bit easy on ourselves.

786
00:29:42,561 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: I hope I don't mind me bringing this up, because

787
00:29:44,441 --> 00:29:47,321
Speaker 2: it was an in exchange and I had where neither

788
00:29:47,401 --> 00:29:49,281
Speaker 2: you and I did a good job of describing what

789
00:29:49,321 --> 00:29:50,081
Speaker 2: our hobbies were.

790
00:29:50,241 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really would like to.

791
00:29:54,201 --> 00:29:55,881
Speaker 2: I don't know about You'll be interesting see you perspective

792
00:29:55,881 --> 00:29:57,761
Speaker 2: for me. Recently someone asked me, I'm going to ask

793
00:29:57,801 --> 00:30:00,921
Speaker 2: you this question. I was asked what my needs, wants

794
00:30:00,961 --> 00:30:04,241
Speaker 2: and interests were, right, oh God? And I leapt straight

795
00:30:04,281 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: into and my kids and he was like, cool, just

796
00:30:07,321 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: want to know what lights EMM are up?

797
00:30:09,281 --> 00:30:10,761
Speaker 1: Like, what is M need? What'd you say?

798
00:30:10,881 --> 00:30:12,841
Speaker 2: I didn't. This is the sad part This is a

799
00:30:12,841 --> 00:30:14,761
Speaker 2: bit where I was like, who am I like talk

800
00:30:14,761 --> 00:30:17,081
Speaker 2: about identity crisis. But there was that moment where I

801
00:30:17,161 --> 00:30:20,281
Speaker 2: was like, you sound like to me someone who's big

802
00:30:20,321 --> 00:30:22,921
Speaker 2: on service to others, which I equally am. And I

803
00:30:22,921 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: think that challenge can be sometimes, especially when you get

804
00:30:25,761 --> 00:30:27,601
Speaker 2: to kind of those early forties, like what do I

805
00:30:27,641 --> 00:30:28,001
Speaker 2: do for me?

806
00:30:28,121 --> 00:30:28,321
Speaker 1: Yeah?

807
00:30:28,321 --> 00:30:29,801
Speaker 3: And you need to make sure you leave a bit for

808
00:30:29,841 --> 00:30:32,921
Speaker 3: yourself as well. Yeah, it's really interesting. I think I've

809
00:30:32,961 --> 00:30:35,041
Speaker 3: never really been good at hobbies. Like I think about

810
00:30:35,081 --> 00:30:35,561
Speaker 3: my sister.

811
00:30:35,841 --> 00:30:38,721
Speaker 1: She used to collect things, and you know, she get

812
00:30:38,721 --> 00:30:41,561
Speaker 1: really obsessed about remember the band Handsome, Oh I am?

813
00:30:41,601 --> 00:30:44,961
Speaker 1: And then I never get obsessed about that kind of stuff.

814
00:30:45,001 --> 00:30:46,881
Speaker 1: I mean I always say the hobby thing. I used

815
00:30:46,921 --> 00:30:49,121
Speaker 1: to be ashamed to say this. I love work. I

816
00:30:49,121 --> 00:30:49,601
Speaker 1: know me too.

817
00:30:49,921 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: Is that okay for that to be our hobby?

818
00:30:51,281 --> 00:30:51,561
Speaker 1: Well?

819
00:30:51,641 --> 00:30:53,681
Speaker 3: I want to say it is, because otherwise that makes

820
00:30:53,761 --> 00:30:57,521
Speaker 3: us both. Maybe you enjoyed therapy lessons. I love being

821
00:30:57,561 --> 00:30:59,721
Speaker 3: with people, and I've ever gotten older, I've been really

822
00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:02,201
Speaker 3: conscious about my social circle. You know, when you leave

823
00:31:02,281 --> 00:31:04,841
Speaker 3: somewhere and someone feel like they've drained, I don't want that.

824
00:31:05,321 --> 00:31:07,561
Speaker 3: I do so much people engagement for a lot of

825
00:31:07,601 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: people think I'm an extrovert.

826
00:31:09,161 --> 00:31:10,561
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm an ambi avert.

827
00:31:10,641 --> 00:31:11,921
Speaker 3: So I do what I need to do, and I

828
00:31:11,961 --> 00:31:14,521
Speaker 3: give my energy and I give that all particularly, but

829
00:31:14,561 --> 00:31:17,041
Speaker 3: then comes Saturday and Sunday, I don't want to talk.

830
00:31:16,921 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: On the phone.

831
00:31:17,641 --> 00:31:20,081
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to be around my people, Like

832
00:31:20,081 --> 00:31:21,521
Speaker 3: my family are in essay and they're like, you're the

833
00:31:21,521 --> 00:31:22,601
Speaker 3: worst at making phone calls.

834
00:31:22,601 --> 00:31:24,761
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I've got nothing like left.

835
00:31:24,601 --> 00:31:26,721
Speaker 3: You know, so you got to go away and recharge

836
00:31:26,721 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: and and sort of reboot the social battery. But I

837
00:31:29,481 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: think as far as hobbies go, what I would like

838
00:31:31,241 --> 00:31:33,761
Speaker 3: to do is get back into reading books more. And

839
00:31:34,321 --> 00:31:37,561
Speaker 3: the challenge myself is giving myself permission to do nothing.

840
00:31:37,841 --> 00:31:41,041
Speaker 2: Mm so getting better at boundaries It sounds like, yeah, definitely,

841
00:31:41,081 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: I think that is a getting out of thing.

842
00:31:42,321 --> 00:31:43,681
Speaker 1: Actually I agree. Well, thank you for that.

843
00:31:43,961 --> 00:31:45,881
Speaker 2: I did want to ask you. I would say that

844
00:31:45,921 --> 00:31:48,161
Speaker 2: the industry you work it has reasonably male dominated, right.

845
00:31:48,321 --> 00:31:48,841
Speaker 1: Yeah.

846
00:31:48,881 --> 00:31:52,081
Speaker 2: What I love especially about you is, I mean, you're fun.

847
00:31:52,281 --> 00:31:54,121
Speaker 2: You know, you're quirky, but you're still feminine. I don't

848
00:31:54,161 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: feel like you've dropped any of that to fit in,

849
00:31:56,881 --> 00:31:59,041
Speaker 2: you know. But I'm sure there's some adjustments you've had

850
00:31:59,041 --> 00:31:59,321
Speaker 2: to make.

851
00:32:00,201 --> 00:32:02,961
Speaker 3: I definitely work in a male dominated industry, and historically

852
00:32:03,001 --> 00:32:05,001
Speaker 3: that's been the way, but it is certainly changing, which

853
00:32:05,161 --> 00:32:08,081
Speaker 3: is incredibly refreshing. But it's not unusual. In some pockets

854
00:32:08,081 --> 00:32:09,721
Speaker 3: of our industry. You might walk into a room and

855
00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:11,761
Speaker 3: there'll be four hundred blue suits. And one of the

856
00:32:11,761 --> 00:32:13,441
Speaker 3: things I've learned to do is make sure I wear

857
00:32:13,521 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: a really bright pink suit or something to do that

858
00:32:15,841 --> 00:32:18,401
Speaker 3: to stand out. But I also think I've always been

859
00:32:18,681 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: pretty conservative in the way I dress and things like that,

860
00:32:21,041 --> 00:32:23,441
Speaker 3: so I probably do that more so. And I think

861
00:32:23,521 --> 00:32:25,601
Speaker 3: if you're in a male dominated industry, people will go

862
00:32:25,681 --> 00:32:26,961
Speaker 3: yet cool. But I think we've got a lot of

863
00:32:26,961 --> 00:32:28,761
Speaker 3: work we probably still need to do to shine a

864
00:32:28,761 --> 00:32:31,081
Speaker 3: bit of a light on the dark spots of our

865
00:32:31,081 --> 00:32:34,161
Speaker 3: industry that need to have more female participation. What I'm

866
00:32:34,201 --> 00:32:37,281
Speaker 3: super proud of at Property Counsel is we look around

867
00:32:37,401 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: the nation. We've got a lot of female ed so

868
00:32:40,481 --> 00:32:43,481
Speaker 3: a lot of ME and other states basically, and that's excellent,

869
00:32:43,481 --> 00:32:46,841
Speaker 3: And we've got a high participation of females in our organization.

870
00:32:47,161 --> 00:32:49,601
Speaker 1: But also we've got some incredible.

871
00:32:49,281 --> 00:32:53,081
Speaker 3: Really senior men championing women and saying we actually need

872
00:32:53,121 --> 00:32:54,881
Speaker 3: to have more females at the table. If we're sitting

873
00:32:54,921 --> 00:32:57,361
Speaker 3: around the table and fifty percent of the population aren't

874
00:32:57,561 --> 00:33:00,361
Speaker 3: represented in this discussion, that it's on us. Because now

875
00:33:00,401 --> 00:33:02,201
Speaker 3: we can see it, we've got to do something about it.

876
00:33:02,481 --> 00:33:04,041
Speaker 3: So I feel like we've covered.

877
00:33:03,801 --> 00:33:07,881
Speaker 2: A really long way last track me twenty years, Maybe

878
00:33:07,921 --> 00:33:08,881
Speaker 2: not twenty them. It's too far.

879
00:33:08,881 --> 00:33:10,041
Speaker 1: Maybe we shouldn't be over at the time.

880
00:33:10,081 --> 00:33:12,521
Speaker 2: Shall we say fifteen? What do you see yourself doing?

881
00:33:12,561 --> 00:33:14,881
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I just idea. I don't have a plan.

882
00:33:15,161 --> 00:33:17,161
Speaker 1: I think for me, I've got pretty good instincts.

883
00:33:17,281 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: I go, oh no, when the time is right for

884
00:33:19,801 --> 00:33:22,121
Speaker 3: me to step out of this role, and that's something

885
00:33:22,161 --> 00:33:24,681
Speaker 3: else will come along. But I think the fear of

886
00:33:24,721 --> 00:33:28,081
Speaker 3: having a plan means that you perhaps say no to

887
00:33:28,161 --> 00:33:29,961
Speaker 3: things because you're on a path.

888
00:33:30,041 --> 00:33:31,521
Speaker 1: And I always want to kind of be open to

889
00:33:31,561 --> 00:33:32,601
Speaker 1: the opportunities. Yep.

890
00:33:32,641 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: From a personal point of view, I think, you know,

891
00:33:34,441 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: I want my kids to be happy and healthy. Hopefully

892
00:33:36,441 --> 00:33:38,081
Speaker 3: I'm reading some more books and maybe I will have

893
00:33:38,081 --> 00:33:38,681
Speaker 3: found a hobby.

894
00:33:40,561 --> 00:33:42,281
Speaker 2: I was actually going to say to you, because earlier

895
00:33:42,281 --> 00:33:46,321
Speaker 2: on in our conversation just drive to prove anyone who's

896
00:33:46,321 --> 00:33:48,081
Speaker 2: going to tell you can't do it wrong. Yeah, right,

897
00:33:48,161 --> 00:33:50,601
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to push myself to that higher standard.

898
00:33:50,841 --> 00:33:52,921
Speaker 2: I was going to sort of say and ask you,

899
00:33:53,161 --> 00:33:55,001
Speaker 2: what does success look like for you?

900
00:33:55,681 --> 00:33:57,401
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it's a bit like when people say,

901
00:33:57,561 --> 00:33:59,921
Speaker 3: you know, I'll be happy when Yeah. If I reflect

902
00:33:59,961 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: on when I was starting out and becously had kids

903
00:34:02,921 --> 00:34:05,281
Speaker 3: pretty young, I remember thinking, I'll be successful when I

904
00:34:05,321 --> 00:34:07,681
Speaker 3: can go to wo Worth's and buy whatever I want

905
00:34:08,121 --> 00:34:10,121
Speaker 3: and not worry about having to buy things on special.

906
00:34:10,601 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: And I was reflecting on back the other day, how

907
00:34:12,561 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: quickly you forget about that when you can do that? Yeah,

908
00:34:15,041 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: And so you've got there. Yeah, man, you're like, okay, cool,

909
00:34:17,521 --> 00:34:19,761
Speaker 3: must be successful. But I think for me, I think

910
00:34:19,761 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: it changes as you sort of evolve. What is really

911
00:34:22,001 --> 00:34:25,201
Speaker 3: important to me is that I make a positive contribution

912
00:34:25,281 --> 00:34:27,041
Speaker 3: to the industry that I represent, that I make a

913
00:34:27,081 --> 00:34:29,801
Speaker 3: positive contribution to this state and this city that has

914
00:34:29,921 --> 00:34:32,281
Speaker 3: embraced me in my family, and that I make a

915
00:34:32,281 --> 00:34:35,321
Speaker 3: positive contribution to those people that are in my sphere.

916
00:34:35,361 --> 00:34:37,401
Speaker 3: And that's success for me now. And I think it's

917
00:34:37,481 --> 00:34:39,681
Speaker 3: very different to what that looked like before. I used

918
00:34:39,721 --> 00:34:42,361
Speaker 3: to attach it to financial things. I realize pretty quickly

919
00:34:42,361 --> 00:34:46,521
Speaker 3: that that's a pretty vapid and actually not very rewarding.

920
00:34:46,721 --> 00:34:48,001
Speaker 1: Success looks like, you.

921
00:34:48,041 --> 00:34:50,561
Speaker 3: Know, members of my team going on and doing bigger

922
00:34:50,601 --> 00:34:52,601
Speaker 3: and better things, and me having hard to privilege and

923
00:34:52,641 --> 00:34:55,121
Speaker 3: playing a role in that. So yeah, it means lots

924
00:34:55,121 --> 00:34:56,601
Speaker 3: of different things to me, and I think at depending

925
00:34:56,641 --> 00:34:58,521
Speaker 3: on what point I'm at in my journey as well.

926
00:34:58,961 --> 00:35:01,361
Speaker 3: But I would say where I am now, I feel

927
00:35:01,361 --> 00:35:04,041
Speaker 3: comfortable with my level of success, and I would like

928
00:35:04,081 --> 00:35:05,721
Speaker 3: to continue to keep driving.

929
00:35:05,841 --> 00:35:08,321
Speaker 2: And I like the importance of reflecting on where you've

930
00:35:08,321 --> 00:35:09,481
Speaker 2: come to. I don't know if we stopped to do

931
00:35:09,521 --> 00:35:11,641
Speaker 2: that very often. I mean, look what you've achieved. I mean,

932
00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:14,481
Speaker 2: for anyone not watching or video version of us, like

933
00:35:14,521 --> 00:35:16,161
Speaker 2: you look a lot younger than you are for someone

934
00:35:16,161 --> 00:35:18,801
Speaker 2: who's achieved as much as you have, it's pretty impressive.

935
00:35:18,841 --> 00:35:19,081
Speaker 1: Girl.

936
00:35:19,081 --> 00:35:21,041
Speaker 3: I got some good genetics working for me. It's not

937
00:35:21,041 --> 00:35:23,001
Speaker 3: because I sleep eight hours. I've doing way too much

938
00:35:23,041 --> 00:35:24,361
Speaker 3: wine and I don't exercise enough.

939
00:35:25,681 --> 00:35:29,881
Speaker 2: Going back to Jess in South Australia, is there any

940
00:35:29,921 --> 00:35:32,801
Speaker 2: particular advice you would give her that might have made life.

941
00:35:32,561 --> 00:35:35,081
Speaker 1: Easier or so justs in South Australia.

942
00:35:35,161 --> 00:35:38,281
Speaker 3: So I had a pretty life changing Actually in twenty sixteen,

943
00:35:38,321 --> 00:35:41,761
Speaker 3: I was trekking CoA Coda and I fell twenty five

944
00:35:41,801 --> 00:35:42,601
Speaker 3: minutes down a cliff.

945
00:35:43,201 --> 00:35:45,841
Speaker 1: Oh. Really lucky to be alive, right, So it was

946
00:35:45,881 --> 00:35:48,081
Speaker 1: a whole you know. I got airlifted the day later

947
00:35:48,201 --> 00:35:49,601
Speaker 1: and spent some time in a pup in New Guinea

948
00:35:49,601 --> 00:35:52,041
Speaker 1: in hospital, tore every muscle from my waist down and

949
00:35:52,081 --> 00:35:54,001
Speaker 1: hamstrings and the whole sort of shooting match. But really

950
00:35:54,081 --> 00:35:57,641
Speaker 1: really lucky to be alive, and the mental.

951
00:35:57,281 --> 00:35:59,841
Speaker 3: Toll of that because it's the first time I had

952
00:35:59,841 --> 00:36:02,681
Speaker 3: to actually stop because I couldn't move and I'm so

953
00:36:02,721 --> 00:36:05,241
Speaker 3: independent like my legs. I still have some issues my

954
00:36:05,281 --> 00:36:09,041
Speaker 3: calf muscles now you know it's internal bleeding, but also

955
00:36:09,241 --> 00:36:12,201
Speaker 3: so lucky. Twenty five meters is it's a huge kangaroo

956
00:36:12,281 --> 00:36:14,241
Speaker 3: point cliffs, right If anyone who's.

957
00:36:14,241 --> 00:36:14,921
Speaker 2: Is that what it is?

958
00:36:15,041 --> 00:36:18,641
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's huge. I am incredibly lucky to be alive.

959
00:36:18,921 --> 00:36:20,881
Speaker 3: I guess that was the first time I had to

960
00:36:20,921 --> 00:36:24,801
Speaker 3: really like stop. So I spent like the best part,

961
00:36:24,841 --> 00:36:28,121
Speaker 3: I say, six weeks upstairs in our townhouse. And so

962
00:36:28,241 --> 00:36:30,081
Speaker 3: when I first moved here, I was commuting back to

963
00:36:30,081 --> 00:36:32,401
Speaker 3: Adelaide for work, doing a week there and a week here.

964
00:36:32,921 --> 00:36:35,561
Speaker 3: I got so depressed, Right, I should have been so

965
00:36:35,681 --> 00:36:38,001
Speaker 3: thrilled to be alive, because I just been through this ordeal.

966
00:36:38,281 --> 00:36:40,321
Speaker 3: First of all, I'd set myself the goal to trek Coder,

967
00:36:40,481 --> 00:36:41,881
Speaker 3: and that in my mind, I was like, well, you're

968
00:36:41,881 --> 00:36:43,961
Speaker 3: a failure. You haven't done that. Because you've done this,

969
00:36:44,281 --> 00:36:47,721
Speaker 3: didn't give myself permission to really go, holy shit, you

970
00:36:47,761 --> 00:36:50,121
Speaker 3: should be dead. But maybe I did, but maybe it

971
00:36:50,161 --> 00:36:53,481
Speaker 3: wasn't as clear cut as that. You're horrible, horrible painkillers

972
00:36:53,521 --> 00:36:55,761
Speaker 3: and all sorts of things which take your brain to

973
00:36:55,841 --> 00:36:58,441
Speaker 3: all sorts of not so great places. I got really

974
00:36:58,441 --> 00:36:59,881
Speaker 3: depressed at the point I was like, I don't know

975
00:36:59,881 --> 00:37:02,201
Speaker 3: if I want to wake up tomorrow. And it's all

976
00:37:02,201 --> 00:37:04,281
Speaker 3: because I had to sit still for the first time

977
00:37:04,361 --> 00:37:06,481
Speaker 3: in a really long time and confront some feelings that

978
00:37:06,521 --> 00:37:09,041
Speaker 3: I've been having for a really long time. A I

979
00:37:09,081 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: was really miserable, flying back and forth, you know, two

980
00:37:11,521 --> 00:37:14,241
Speaker 3: years of that, the kids were little, my marriage was

981
00:37:14,241 --> 00:37:16,561
Speaker 3: falling apart. My ex husband probably didn't realize it was

982
00:37:16,601 --> 00:37:18,321
Speaker 3: falling apart, but I wasn't happy and I.

983
00:37:18,241 --> 00:37:19,361
Speaker 1: Had to really sit with that.

984
00:37:19,601 --> 00:37:23,601
Speaker 3: So reflecting on that now I've probably had some suicidal thoughts,

985
00:37:23,641 --> 00:37:26,201
Speaker 3: which at that point would never have articulated to anybody

986
00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:30,161
Speaker 3: because that would have been like major weakness. But I

987
00:37:30,241 --> 00:37:33,121
Speaker 3: look back on it now that Jess is the reason

988
00:37:33,121 --> 00:37:34,001
Speaker 3: I'm the jest that I am.

989
00:37:34,041 --> 00:37:36,601
Speaker 1: Now I can see that. Yeah, and so proud.

990
00:37:36,321 --> 00:37:38,601
Speaker 3: Of waking up that next day after having these really

991
00:37:38,641 --> 00:37:41,481
Speaker 3: diabolical thoughts for six seven weeks not telling anyone, and

992
00:37:41,481 --> 00:37:43,961
Speaker 3: everyone going, oh my god, she's so lucky, You're so lucky, like,

993
00:37:44,201 --> 00:37:46,281
Speaker 3: and then I'm feeling like a jerk because I don't

994
00:37:46,281 --> 00:37:48,881
Speaker 3: feel feeling like I feel like then I do this thing.

995
00:37:48,921 --> 00:37:50,921
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, people are dying of cancergest

996
00:37:50,961 --> 00:37:52,081
Speaker 3: and people are losing loved ones.

997
00:37:52,121 --> 00:37:53,561
Speaker 1: You should feel, you know.

998
00:37:54,001 --> 00:37:55,761
Speaker 3: I woke up the next day and I said, you

999
00:37:55,801 --> 00:37:59,001
Speaker 3: have got one precious life. Made the decisions that will

1000
00:37:59,081 --> 00:38:03,161
Speaker 3: unleash that one precious life. I sold my businesses, moved

1001
00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:07,121
Speaker 3: up here to Brisbane permanently, had the really uncomfortable conversation

1002
00:38:07,281 --> 00:38:10,601
Speaker 3: with my now ex husband. We decided to separate, and

1003
00:38:11,201 --> 00:38:13,321
Speaker 3: it's been the best thing for him as well, because

1004
00:38:13,321 --> 00:38:15,841
Speaker 3: I was very unhappy and you know, we co parent

1005
00:38:15,921 --> 00:38:19,601
Speaker 3: effectively together. I've met someone new we've remarried, and I

1006
00:38:19,721 --> 00:38:21,841
Speaker 3: just feel a lot of the pressure that I put

1007
00:38:21,841 --> 00:38:24,721
Speaker 3: on myself ends because I didn't confront those feelings that

1008
00:38:24,761 --> 00:38:27,161
Speaker 3: i'd been having, because I kept trying to push him away, saying,

1009
00:38:27,561 --> 00:38:29,041
Speaker 3: you know, I'll do this, and then that way you

1010
00:38:29,041 --> 00:38:31,841
Speaker 3: feel like that anymore, you know, I'll push myself over here.

1011
00:38:32,321 --> 00:38:34,681
Speaker 3: But having to go through that really shit experience and

1012
00:38:34,761 --> 00:38:37,721
Speaker 3: actually facing your own mortality, whether it was through the

1013
00:38:37,761 --> 00:38:40,361
Speaker 3: fall or me questioning whether I wanted to wake up

1014
00:38:40,361 --> 00:38:43,241
Speaker 3: the next day. You've got one life and you've got

1015
00:38:43,241 --> 00:38:46,761
Speaker 3: no idea when it's got a nights, and so do

1016
00:38:46,841 --> 00:38:48,441
Speaker 3: your best with your one precious life.

1017
00:38:48,481 --> 00:38:51,961
Speaker 2: Obviously, the universe gave you an extreme situation. I am

1018
00:38:52,041 --> 00:38:54,441
Speaker 2: massive smack in the faith, Like it's a huge smack totally.

1019
00:38:54,481 --> 00:38:56,401
Speaker 2: But I guess it's interesting because I've heard this a

1020
00:38:56,401 --> 00:38:58,561
Speaker 2: few times when people who have had these really serious

1021
00:38:58,681 --> 00:39:01,721
Speaker 2: life altering things happened to them. Do you think if

1022
00:39:01,761 --> 00:39:04,401
Speaker 2: it hadn't have happened, how long would you have sat

1023
00:39:04,481 --> 00:39:07,121
Speaker 2: with the things that were making you uncomfortable and sad?

1024
00:39:07,321 --> 00:39:09,241
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good question. I haven't really thought

1025
00:39:09,281 --> 00:39:12,161
Speaker 3: about that, probably for a couple of more years. I suppose,

1026
00:39:12,281 --> 00:39:14,641
Speaker 3: but you don't know how precious it is until you

1027
00:39:14,681 --> 00:39:17,561
Speaker 3: nearly lose it, right. Lisaals has written a really great

1028
00:39:17,561 --> 00:39:20,041
Speaker 3: book Now any ordinary day you wake up tomorrow and

1029
00:39:20,121 --> 00:39:21,481
Speaker 3: life and be completely different.

1030
00:39:21,521 --> 00:39:24,361
Speaker 1: And it sounds like, you know, cliche, but it's true. Yeah.

1031
00:39:24,361 --> 00:39:26,521
Speaker 3: It's trying to remind myself of that sort of you

1032
00:39:26,561 --> 00:39:29,601
Speaker 3: know often what I did do when I fell and

1033
00:39:29,641 --> 00:39:31,721
Speaker 3: then I came back. And because this probably sums me

1034
00:39:31,761 --> 00:39:33,921
Speaker 3: up in a person in my bed, and I always

1035
00:39:33,961 --> 00:39:36,201
Speaker 3: try to give myself a lifeline sometimes, and I knew

1036
00:39:36,241 --> 00:39:38,561
Speaker 3: how shit I was feeling, I booked to do the

1037
00:39:38,641 --> 00:39:40,401
Speaker 3: trip again, no exact time.

1038
00:39:40,481 --> 00:39:41,081
Speaker 1: The year later.

1039
00:39:41,441 --> 00:39:43,441
Speaker 3: Call my dad, I call my cousin, and I go,

1040
00:39:43,641 --> 00:39:46,841
Speaker 3: I'm going back next year to finish this. And they're like, yes, Jess,

1041
00:39:46,841 --> 00:39:47,881
Speaker 3: we'll come, we'll come, we'll come.

1042
00:39:48,201 --> 00:39:49,241
Speaker 1: But I knew if I.

1043
00:39:49,201 --> 00:39:51,361
Speaker 3: Had made that out loud, that was a commitment to

1044
00:39:51,401 --> 00:39:54,721
Speaker 3: myself to sort my shit out, get off this horrible pain, clue,

1045
00:39:54,801 --> 00:39:56,561
Speaker 3: get out of my head and these awful thoughts and

1046
00:39:56,601 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 3: feelings of not wanting to be here anymore, and get there.

1047
00:39:59,721 --> 00:40:01,201
Speaker 3: And that was the kind of thing because once you

1048
00:40:01,321 --> 00:40:03,601
Speaker 3: say it out loud, you can't let anyone down and

1049
00:40:03,641 --> 00:40:05,721
Speaker 3: I literally got the medical clearance it's like the week

1050
00:40:05,801 --> 00:40:09,001
Speaker 3: before to go back. And it was amazing because I

1051
00:40:09,001 --> 00:40:09,761
Speaker 3: got the same porter.

1052
00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:13,081
Speaker 2: So you did do this. Yeah, oh my god, yess.

1053
00:40:13,241 --> 00:40:15,201
Speaker 1: We walked past this, you know where this is what

1054
00:40:15,281 --> 00:40:17,681
Speaker 1: happn't happened, And I walked past it and I looked

1055
00:40:17,681 --> 00:40:20,201
Speaker 1: back over it and I was like, I can change

1056
00:40:20,201 --> 00:40:22,201
Speaker 1: the story in my head now, and we finished it.

1057
00:40:22,561 --> 00:40:25,481
Speaker 1: So for me, it's just incredible, right, that is amazing.

1058
00:40:25,481 --> 00:40:26,961
Speaker 1: And I was like, I think.

1059
00:40:26,801 --> 00:40:28,481
Speaker 3: About that all the time and I think things are

1060
00:40:28,481 --> 00:40:30,361
Speaker 3: really hard. I'm like, nah, I can do hard shit.

1061
00:40:30,601 --> 00:40:34,121
Speaker 3: I am blown away. That's amazing. I cannot believe you

1062
00:40:34,161 --> 00:40:38,001
Speaker 3: put yourself and such. They would have been terrifying and

1063
00:40:38,441 --> 00:40:41,161
Speaker 3: super super super terrified, but also really wow, I'm a

1064
00:40:41,201 --> 00:40:43,401
Speaker 3: strong human because you changed the story in your head now.

1065
00:40:43,441 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: It wasn't I went to Cokoda, I fell and nearly died.

1066
00:40:45,601 --> 00:40:47,801
Speaker 3: It's like I went to Kakoda and I finished it,

1067
00:40:47,841 --> 00:40:50,401
Speaker 3: and it's incredible and that place, like, my god, you

1068
00:40:50,441 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: are the.

1069
00:40:50,921 --> 00:40:52,121
Speaker 1: Stories and the heroes.

1070
00:40:52,201 --> 00:40:55,001
Speaker 3: Yeah, those incredible credible porters that we have, like the

1071
00:40:55,241 --> 00:40:58,641
Speaker 3: fuzzy wuzzy angels man like it puts stuff into perspective

1072
00:40:58,721 --> 00:41:00,001
Speaker 3: for you, and I got to do it with my

1073
00:41:00,081 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: dad and.

1074
00:41:00,561 --> 00:41:02,721
Speaker 2: We could have let that be a terrible memory in

1075
00:41:02,761 --> 00:41:04,201
Speaker 2: your head that you never want to go here again,

1076
00:41:04,241 --> 00:41:06,561
Speaker 2: and it could have affected so many things and just

1077
00:41:06,561 --> 00:41:08,721
Speaker 2: shows you the power of the mind. And totally, yeah,

1078
00:41:08,761 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: that's an amazing story.

1079
00:41:09,521 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing.

1080
00:41:10,521 --> 00:41:12,441
Speaker 2: Honestly, I could talk to you first so long, the

1081
00:41:12,481 --> 00:41:14,361
Speaker 2: hour ad of time, but that was an amazing share.

1082
00:41:14,401 --> 00:41:16,961
Speaker 2: And I think I am so excited to see withink

1083
00:41:17,001 --> 00:41:19,401
Speaker 2: Goop you because what you've just said priests to me

1084
00:41:19,481 --> 00:41:21,321
Speaker 2: that whatever is that you want.

1085
00:41:21,201 --> 00:41:22,881
Speaker 1: To do, I have no doubt you can do it.

1086
00:41:23,641 --> 00:41:25,001
Speaker 2: So I hope you and I can't wait to see

1087
00:41:25,001 --> 00:41:25,521
Speaker 2: your journey.

1088
00:41:25,641 --> 00:41:26,401
Speaker 1: Thank thanks, love