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Speaker 1: Melanie Tate. What's your middle name?

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Speaker 2: Jane very nineteen side the Jane on Marie you're born

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or Louise, Louise, Jane or Marie. That's it. That's

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Speaker 1: all there was. I got Justice, but it was Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: when I was born. I changed it to Justice because

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Speaker 1: my great grandmother, no, my great grandfather times seven. I

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Speaker 1: found out later in life that his name was Felix

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Speaker 1: Eustace and they anglicized it to Justice, so we have

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Speaker 1: our family name is Justice, and I thought that's such

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Speaker 1: a great name. So Justice is my middle name. Changed

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Speaker 1: it because you know, the women and your family never

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Speaker 1: get to keep their names, and my mother, my mother

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Speaker 1: didn't get to keep her name, and Justice got you know,

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Speaker 1: bred out at some point. So I brought it back.

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Speaker 2: And no offense to Daddy Jones, but Justice is a

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Speaker 2: much better surname.

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Speaker 1: Than Jones, and Jones is not my is not my

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Speaker 1: real name either, But that's a whole other story we'll

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Speaker 1: go down another time, because this isn't about me. This

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Speaker 1: is about you. Welcome to me. It's so good to

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Speaker 1: finally have you on my podcast, because you have your

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Speaker 1: own podcast and it's wonderful, and you and I are

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Speaker 1: friends and I adore you and you adore me, and

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Speaker 1: we just adore each other. But it's so nice because

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Speaker 1: you know, you're a playwright and a screenwright and a novelist.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I've written two books, but there

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Speaker 2: weren't novels. One of them was like a story about

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Speaker 2: when I had a gastric band So one of them

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Speaker 2: was about gastric banding. And the other one I ghost

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Speaker 2: wrote for Alan and Unwin. I'm not actually allowed to

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Speaker 2: say what it was, but you know it was like

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Speaker 2: a somebody's memoir. I ghost through it. So I've officially

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Speaker 2: written two books. And I and my family has all

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Speaker 2: said to me, don't ever write another book, because you're

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Speaker 2: a nightmare. While you're writing a book, you hate every

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Speaker 2: moment of it. It's so stressful. So I yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I'm not I would love to be a novelist, but

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Speaker 2: I've tried to write novels fiction lots of time. I'm

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Speaker 2: just not very good at it, unfortunately, not very good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you've got to stick to your strengths because

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Speaker 1: you're a very good playwright, very good screenwright, very good.

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Speaker 1: Now let's talk about what you, well, one of your

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Speaker 1: most successful is the Appleton Ladies Potato Race. It's not

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Speaker 1: potato sack race, even though the potatoes are in a sack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's discussed.

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Speaker 2: It's officially called the potato Race. So it's inspite the

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Speaker 2: play itself was inspired by something that happened in my

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Speaker 2: real life in my hometown, which is the land the

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Speaker 2: town of not only the big Potato but the annual

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Speaker 2: potato races, and they call them the potato Races. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it's funny because I've just been trying to name a

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Speaker 2: new play in the last couple of weeks and the

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Speaker 2: artistic director of Ensemble Theater who I have developed, you know,

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Speaker 2: this has been my fourth new play with them, Mark

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Speaker 2: kill Murray. He was the one that called it the

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Speaker 2: Appleton Ladies Potato Race. I was going to call it

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Speaker 2: just the potato Race. It was called the potato Race

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Speaker 2: for such a long time, and then he said, why

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Speaker 2: don't we call it the Appleton Ladies Potato Race. And

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Speaker 2: it was such a genius move. It was such a

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Speaker 2: genius move. Well, I think that it was around that time,

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Speaker 2: you know, when there was like the all these sort

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Speaker 2: of books about ladies book clubs or Potato Guernsey societies

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Speaker 2: and things like that that I think it was kind

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Speaker 2: of like commercially, it was something that appealed to an audience,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I'm really really glad because yeah it

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Speaker 2: does and it looks great, you know, published little play

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Speaker 2: now and it looks great on the cover of the

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Speaker 2: you know, the Apples and Ladies Potato Race rather than

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Speaker 2: the Potato Race. It sort of I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: jumps out, it jumps out more or something.

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Speaker 1: Theaters do it they put it on. Yeah that feels.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's amazing. So that play has just been I think,

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Speaker 2: I feel like one of the great blessings of my life.

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Speaker 2: You know. It had this amazing first like initial production

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Speaker 2: that Ensemble theater, which was sold out before it even opened,

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Speaker 2: Like it was just amazing on that name, I'm sure,

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Speaker 2: and we had this amazing cast. But since then, I

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Speaker 2: think it's had something like five or six big professional productions,

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Speaker 2: and then I think, honestly, I couldn't even count the

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Speaker 2: amount of community theater productions that it's had, but I

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Speaker 2: reckon maybe it's about thirty. And every time there is one,

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful because it, like, you know, it'll pay

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Speaker 2: my electricity bill or it'll pack you know, like it's

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Speaker 2: just this beautiful for a start. I love I always

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Speaker 2: get this beautiful feedback from companies like the professional companies

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Speaker 2: and the community theater companies. To play with five women,

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Speaker 2: the five women always end up besties at the end

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Speaker 2: of it, that they kind of end up bonded for life.

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Speaker 2: They all love each other. So that's a beautiful thing.

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Speaker 2: But it's also like this beautiful passive income that allows

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Speaker 2: me to be a professional writer, you know. I just yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel yeah, I feel so lucky with that play.

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Speaker 2: I think it's probably it's had one international production in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand it hasn't had I sort of would love

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Speaker 2: it to be in the UK or the US.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see it. It would go so

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Speaker 1: so well, you should tell Don French to produce it.

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Speaker 2: Can you imagine? Yeah, because I can.

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Speaker 1: I feel I see it.

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Speaker 2: It would work so beautifully, like in the North of

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Speaker 2: England or in Scotland or anywhere that's rural, you know,

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Speaker 2: and has all those same issues that that are inside

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Speaker 2: the play about you know, gentrifica not gentrification, but you know,

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Speaker 2: class warfare between people that have been in the country

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Speaker 2: town forever and the people and try to have a

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Speaker 2: new life, all that kind of stuff. So I would

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Speaker 2: love to see it overseas.

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Speaker 1: And the women just a feminist, you know, vibe that

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Speaker 1: it has of empowering women, you know, is obviously what

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Speaker 1: I would love the most about it. But I also

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Speaker 1: like how you've written the dickheads the men, like one

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Speaker 1: in particular, he's just such a dickhead. And it was

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Speaker 1: made into a movie for Channel ten. So anyone listening

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Speaker 1: you can go and watch it on ten. Play is

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Speaker 1: it still on?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's on now, I think so, I hope, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Otherwise I keep hearing from people that have flown Emirates

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Speaker 2: that it's on Emirates there.

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Speaker 1: You can do it that way, you can get it

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Speaker 1: in that way.

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Speaker 2: But hopefully there'll be look look at look at your

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Speaker 2: local community theater and there might be a production of

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Speaker 2: it there. Oh.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just a perfect play for that, for community

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Speaker 1: and for professional theater, but especially community theater because so

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Speaker 1: many people would love to get involved, and a lot

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Speaker 1: a lot more women, do you know, community theater than men,

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Speaker 1: So it's perfect because you've always got you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of women to have to choose from for small

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Speaker 1: roles in most plays, and this is a really great

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Speaker 1: play that's like, so they'd just be going, oh that one,

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Speaker 1: that one's just totally it's going to go forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so. And it's funny because I've recently

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Speaker 2: sort of started to think of two ideas for new plays,

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Speaker 2: you know, for when I'm finished working on the stuff

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Speaker 2: and working on now. And one of them is another

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Speaker 2: one with five women. And I've got to tell you,

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Speaker 2: I just half of me is like, of course I'm

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Speaker 2: excited about doing the play, but the other half of

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Speaker 2: me is like, oh my god, that's another one that

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Speaker 2: will like every community theater in Australia will do it

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Speaker 2: because because it's got five women in it, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about what your working well, before we

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Speaker 1: get to the new stuff, I want to first talk

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Speaker 1: about you growing up in Robertson the Big Potato. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and your name's Melanie Potato.

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Speaker 2: It is it is like it's such nominative determinism, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Like I think, Yeah, when you've got a surname like Taate,

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Speaker 2: like of course you're going to be the person that

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Speaker 2: owns a big potato. And you're also going to, of

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Speaker 2: course be a little fatty as a kid, Like, how

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Speaker 2: are you not going to be when your name's take?

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Speaker 1: What better child is there? Honestly a potato child.

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Speaker 2: There's no better child than a potato. And you know,

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Speaker 2: all four little potatoes as we were, there's four of us,

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Speaker 2: are all completely delightful because we were born potatoes. You know,

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Speaker 2: we grew up.

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Speaker 1: As potatoes are the best potatoes, They're the most potato.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I've got I've got a cocoa potato who

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Speaker 1: is the roundest dog I've ever had in my life.

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Speaker 1: And I just picked her up from having her dental

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Speaker 1: and all the nurses come out and they were gushing

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Speaker 1: because she's a potatoes. Look at her little brown belly.

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Speaker 1: It's a potato. I just like, who doesn't love potatoes?

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Speaker 2: Well, any anybody that doesn't love potatoes, I think you've got.

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Speaker 1: To be wary of Yeah, And there's nothing better than

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Speaker 1: a chubby child.

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Speaker 2: Our family is full of them, like the Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: four little potatoes. We grew up in this tiny, tiny

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Speaker 2: little town. And you know it's funny, though I've never

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Speaker 2: had good potato nicknames. My sister gets great potato nicknames.

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Speaker 2: You know, she gets called sweet Taty. She's like a

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Speaker 2: barrister and they call her sweet taties. I shouldn't say

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Speaker 2: she's a barrister. She gets mad at me saying she's

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Speaker 2: a barrister because she's done. She's done the bar horse,

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Speaker 2: but she's still got to do one other thing. So

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Speaker 2: she's a lawyer and they call a sweet taty.

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Speaker 1: When did you decide that writing plays was going to

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Speaker 1: be something that you were going to wanted to do

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Speaker 1: and then decide I can do this?

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Speaker 2: Hebe I didn't even know it was a thing you

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Speaker 2: could do, but my whole life kind of led to it,

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Speaker 2: if that makes sense. Like I wrote my first play

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Speaker 2: in year five and it was about the Titanic and

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Speaker 2: we put it on like and this was before James Cameron.

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Speaker 2: I'm older, I'm old, you know, like this was.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he stole it from you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course he did. He got the somehow got

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Speaker 2: the word from from Robbo ps And.

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Speaker 1: And those directors Jack and Rose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, those of us performing it out the front

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Speaker 2: of the Dunnies on a really cold day. And I

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Speaker 2: remember my friend Anthea, she was the only one who

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Speaker 2: had a computer. So she took the notes home and

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Speaker 2: typed it up, and I was such a little bastard

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Speaker 2: when she brought it back. I accused her of giving

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Speaker 2: herself the good line. So I knew how a play works,

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Speaker 2: like I knew what the funny lines were and all

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. Isn't that's more how to direct

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Speaker 2: and produce? Yeah, yeah, all of that and edit all

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Speaker 2: of that. So I was always writing. I thought I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be an actor though, So I was always

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Speaker 2: reading plays and you know, getting currency press plays from

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Speaker 2: the library or from second hand shops. Like it amazes

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Speaker 2: me now that David Williamson, the Australian playwright, I consider

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Speaker 2: him sort of like a friend and somebody who gives

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Speaker 2: me guidance now when I spent so much time, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I spent so much time as a young person,

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Speaker 2: like finding his plays in op shops or in you know,

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Speaker 2: secondhand shops or at school. They were kind of life

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Speaker 2: to me. So I kind of think I was always

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Speaker 2: meant to do it. And then when I was twenty one,

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Speaker 2: I wrote a play in London called The Vegemite Tales,

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Speaker 2: which I wanted to use to fund I wanted to

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Speaker 2: have a musical theater company, like a musical theater little company.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, I'll just write a play and

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Speaker 2: we'll make money from that. Like what an idiot. I

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Speaker 2: had no idea about anything at all, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: I didn't even know that when you wrote a play

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Speaker 2: you could send it to a theater company and they

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Speaker 2: could put it on. I just assumed that I had

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Speaker 2: to find. Yeah, and my brother, this is amazing. We

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Speaker 2: still we're a base by this now in our you know,

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Speaker 2: in our forties. My brother for my twenty first birthday

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Speaker 2: gave me five hundred which, like we were talking about

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Speaker 2: this the other night, neither of us could afford to

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Speaker 2: give each other five hundred dollars now for our birthdays,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Like it.

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Speaker 2: It was such an amazing thing.

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Speaker 1: And I put it five hundred bucks.

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Speaker 2: I know, God love him, I just have. I still

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Speaker 2: have no idea, but I kind of owe him my

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Speaker 2: whole career because with that five hundred dollars, I put

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Speaker 2: a deposit on a theater for the Vegemit Tales. And

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Speaker 2: the Vegemit Tales was it was just such a huge hit.

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Speaker 2: It played for eight years, the last two years it

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Speaker 2: played on the West End, so it was just amazing,

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Speaker 2: this freak of nature thing. But of course, being like

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Speaker 2: a woman of very little self esteem, I thought I'd

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Speaker 2: just fluked that. And I thought that I wasn't a writer.

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Speaker 2: I thought that I was kind of lightweight, you know,

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Speaker 2: that I wasn't sort of so I I and to

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Speaker 2: be fair, I think that the industry at the time,

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Speaker 2: and also being an Australian in London, so I wasn't

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Speaker 2: having a hit in Australia, which I think would have

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Speaker 2: been a different deal. But an Australian having a hit

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Speaker 2: that poked fun at a lot of English stuff and

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Speaker 2: was very commercial and very broad. I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't taken seriously by it, But I actually don't know,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't know then. Like I never thought to

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Speaker 2: get an agent, I never thought to go and send

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Speaker 2: plays to a theater companies. I didn't know. I just

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Speaker 2: didn't know. I didn't know anything. So I came back

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Speaker 2: to Australia and got a trainee ship with the ABC,

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Speaker 2: and I was a journalist for like twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 2: or something, some you know, like not nearly two decades,

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Speaker 2: but a bit over a decade. Before I wrote The

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Speaker 2: Potato Race and something. When I wrote The Potato Race

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Speaker 2: and it was programmed at a professional theater, I just

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Speaker 2: knew it was my ticket back, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like I just thought, oh, like, I've got to make

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Speaker 2: everything i can of this, of this opportunity. And it

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Speaker 2: happened at the time when I had a crude long

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Speaker 2: service leave at the ABC. So instead of taking a

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Speaker 2: long service leave, I quit and I took the money

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Speaker 2: to set me up as a freelancer, you know, to

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Speaker 2: sort of. And I haven't super looked back, you know,

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Speaker 2: every now and again, it's funny, I'll go back to

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Speaker 2: the ABC and do some work. It's funny. I recently

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Speaker 2: have gone back because I felt a bit lonely at

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Speaker 2: home all the time. I want to be around people.

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Speaker 2: And you know what it's like being a freelancer, how

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Speaker 2: you're just waiting for people to pay you money and

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Speaker 2: you get so behind. Yes, And I thought, I'll go back.

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Speaker 2: I'll see if anybody remembers me at the ABC. I

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Speaker 2: think I'll see if I can go back. But I

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Speaker 2: was telling one of my friends and he's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's just like when you know, you get a bit

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Speaker 2: broken you have to go home and live with mum

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Speaker 2: and dad for a bit. That's what you know, and

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Speaker 2: I feel so grateful to have that, you know, as

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Speaker 2: a I actually now feel When I first got back

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Speaker 2: into playwriting, ev I'd see, you know, I remember seeing

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Speaker 2: an article about beautiful Maulvany, who we started out at

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Speaker 2: the same time. Isn't she having we started out writing

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Speaker 2: at same time? And I saw some she isn't she

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Speaker 2: divine and one of the most loved people in our industry,

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Speaker 2: like just a heavenly person. And I saw an article

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Speaker 2: about her and it said something like she had written

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Speaker 2: twenty seven plays, and I got so sad. I was like, what,

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Speaker 2: how was Kate able to stay in the game? You know?

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Speaker 2: What was it about her that made her either believe

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Speaker 2: in herself or be supported or whatever it was? And

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Speaker 2: I'd get really sad. But then after COVID happened and

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Speaker 2: the times that I've needed, like I said, to go

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Speaker 2: back and work or I've been, and my research skills

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Speaker 2: and my ability to be able to interview people and

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Speaker 2: talk to people, I'm so And also I think I

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Speaker 2: would have flamed out as a playwright like I would

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Speaker 2: be so canceled by now, by something I had written

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Speaker 2: in my very passionate mid twenties, late twenties, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, yeah, yeah, so I'm actually very

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Speaker 2: grateful now, but I'm I work so hard to try

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Speaker 2: and sort of stay in the game because I love

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Speaker 2: working in theater so much. Like if you've started your

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Speaker 2: working life out in a theater company like I did

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Speaker 2: with the Vegemite Tails, you think that I don't know,

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Speaker 2: if you you have this incredibly connected sort of work

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Speaker 2: life where you're going to work every night with your

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Speaker 2: best friends and you're all in each other's pockets, you know,

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Speaker 2: like drama school kind of people, and then to go

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Speaker 2: into the real world, it's it's kind of weird. And

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Speaker 2: so I feel like being back in theater, I've been like,

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Speaker 2: oh I'm home now, thank God, I'm back with these vulnerable, crazy,

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Speaker 2: beautiful people again. And we're a family. Each time, you know,

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Speaker 2: you do a new show, you make a new family.

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Speaker 2: It's quite beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing like theater people. Yeah, their type unto

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Speaker 1: their own, Like they're just adorable and loved. And if

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Speaker 1: you're into theater, you're into theater. If you're not, you know,

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Speaker 1: those kind of people freak you out. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just think they're the most they're the most beautiful

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Speaker 1: part of that particular art that means. And the ensemble

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Speaker 1: is such a great theater. It's kirabilly, it's it's just

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Speaker 1: out of the city, so it feels like it's almost

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Speaker 1: a community theater, but it's a professional one. It's got

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Speaker 1: such a diverse and long, you know history, and I

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Speaker 1: have seen some of the best things that I've ever

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Speaker 1: seen ever in my life. I remember seeing something when

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Speaker 1: I was in year nine at school. We went on

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Speaker 1: excursion to see a matinee and it was a very

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Speaker 1: serious play. I think it was the one day of

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Speaker 1: the year.

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Speaker 2: Oh the Alan play about about Anne Zack d And

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Speaker 2: so there was just a lot of school groups in

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Speaker 2: the audience and two girls wouldn't stop talking, and the lead,

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Speaker 2: the mother.

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Speaker 1: Stopped and said, I'm sorry, I have to stop and

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Speaker 1: you know, you two have got to stop talking, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we are trying to work here, and she

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Speaker 1: was went off like a mum. And everyone in the audience,

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Speaker 1: especially the little old ladies in the in the front,

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Speaker 1: we're like, you know, and we're all like all the

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Speaker 1: kids shot themselves and their teachers were just mortified. I've

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Speaker 1: never forgotten it, but I've never seen anything like it

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Speaker 1: like it since, nothing like someone break character. And then

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Speaker 1: she was like, okay, let's get back into it where

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. It was incredible. And then we had

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Speaker 1: this huge debate afterwards about whether she should have done that,

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Speaker 1: like whether that's part of her job or she'd she

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Speaker 1: had just gone on. And you know, there's so many

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Speaker 1: I think even my teacher was against her doing that.

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Speaker 1: Like it was a very interesting anyway, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a great theater.

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Speaker 2: You sort of speak to something that's quite wonderful about

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Speaker 2: theater though, and it's that we're all there, and the

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Speaker 2: adrenaline rush that everybody in that theater must have felt

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Speaker 2: when that actor stopped the show, every single person, you know,

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Speaker 2: like because we're all experiencing this thing together and then

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Speaker 2: a scary thing like that happens and every like you

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Speaker 2: can feel the energy in the room if anything ever

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Speaker 2: goes down like that, can't you. And and a theater

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Speaker 2: like Enzomble, which is it's three hundred seats, it's quite small,

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Speaker 2: you know, like.

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Speaker 1: You can almost in then.

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Speaker 2: You can see everything like on an opening night. I

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Speaker 2: always feel like you can't even relax. You have to

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Speaker 2: laugh at everything. You have to, you know, because everybody

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Speaker 2: can see, like the whole audience can see each other,

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Speaker 2: and the actors can see everything you're doing as well.

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Speaker 2: It's so for long.

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Speaker 1: The play that you're working on at the moment is

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Speaker 1: called The Queen's Nanny.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we're about to start rehearsing.

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Speaker 1: How exciting, Like what's the best? Is this a really

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Speaker 1: great part? Because you're just about to start rehearsal? So

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Speaker 1: it's it's been going for I'm assuming a couple of

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Speaker 1: years like product, like you know, pre production. So this

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Speaker 1: is all now we're in like this, you know, we've

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Speaker 1: got it all cast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all cast. So this is the most This is

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Speaker 2: actually the most delicious part of it because it's like

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Speaker 2: the world is all in front of you, do you

388
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Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like anything that still happened in

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Speaker 2: a glorious way, Like there hasn't been some a whole

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Speaker 2: critic who's hated it and trashed us al anything, do

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like where we're just in

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Speaker 2: that beautiful stage where it's cast and it's cast. Amazingly,

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Speaker 2: we've got so it's the story about Queen Elizabeth seconds

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Speaker 2: nanny who raised her and Princess Margaret for seventeen years,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: So that's the Queen's the queen mother.

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Speaker 2: The queen mother was the nanny's boss. But the nanny

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Speaker 2: was the nanny to Queen Elizabeth, a Princess Margaret. So

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Speaker 2: the person that we start, yeah, yeah, and she basically

400
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Speaker 2: raised Queen Elizabeth the second because of course.

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Speaker 1: This is a true story story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's amazing about it is is this her

403
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Speaker 2: name was Crawfy, this woman Crawfy, so she literally, you know,

404
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Speaker 2: during the war, for example, she slept in cots next

405
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Speaker 2: to them to protect them. She was their mother while

406
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Speaker 2: their mother was having to be the queen, you know,

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Speaker 2: off in London.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 2: She was a really huge part of their lives from

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Speaker 2: the time that Margaret was a baby and Queen Elizabeth,

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Speaker 2: who is lilibet in the play, since she was five,

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Speaker 2: you know, so she raised the Queen. She raised that

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Speaker 2: stoic woman that we all kind of knew so well.

414
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Speaker 2: And when she was retired out at like thirty eight,

415
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Speaker 2: she was so young, she got the opportunity to write

416
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Speaker 2: a tell all memoir about the little princesses growing up.

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Speaker 2: She did it, and she was booted out of the

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Speaker 2: royal family. Never spoke to her again when she died, Evie,

419
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Speaker 2: when she died in her eighties, not one of them

420
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Speaker 2: sent a bunch of flowers or attended her funeral, this

421
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Speaker 2: woman who'd raised them. It's just I mean, it's the

422
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Speaker 2: most unbelievable story. And she was always kind of thought

423
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Speaker 2: of as the great royal traitor. You know, she was

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Speaker 2: the first person to do the sell all book and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the interesting thing that, you know, I'm not gonna

427
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Speaker 2: say I found this out because other people's journalism has

428
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Speaker 2: you know, if you put everything together, she thought she

429
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Speaker 2: had permission to do it from the Queen mother, and

430
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Speaker 2: she did and she didn't. And that's what the play

431
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Speaker 2: is about. It's about sort of like the gray area

432
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Speaker 2: around it, but also about it's about so many things

433
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: because like I just don't understand and how they can,

434
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: you know, Ebie, Like do you think you know when

435
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: you think about the people that you grew up with,

436
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: like I think about it. I had this one uncle,

437
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: my uncle Barry, and he for he is Verry, such

438
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: a great name. Why is it not made to come back,

439
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: and why don't either of us have a dog called Barry?

440
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: That's what I'd like.

441
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: To ask, But soon soon.

442
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, my uncle Barry became estrange from our family

443
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 2: when I was about twelve, but I have loved him

444
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 2: my whole life, you know, Like and one night when

445
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: I was on the radio, he rang me to say

446
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: he'd heard me. And I was doing a national show

447
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: or something like that on the ABC, and he rang

448
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: to say he heard me, and then he was so

449
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: proud of me. And then our Poppy would have been

450
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: proud of me, and I hadn't you know, I han't

451
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: spoken to him since I was twelve, Like it was

452
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 2: the most amazing, Like that love that he sort of

453
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: set up when I from the time I was a

454
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 2: childhood I was twelve, is still strong today. Like he's

455
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: unwell at the moment, and and you know, with our

456
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: relationships have all reunited, thank God. And I kind of

457
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: when I think about Crawfy and Lilibet, the Queen and

458
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: Princess Margaret, I don't understand how. I don't understand how

459
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: it is that that they could just ouse this person

460
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: who had been their life, you know, I find it

461
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: really amazing and so I wanted to write about that.

462
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to write about that from a point of

463
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: view as a woman that doesn't have children. I find

464
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: all those those relationships, those non parenting relationship is really interesting.

465
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: Like Ebie, did you know this? You'll love this. After

466
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: the Second World War, a friend of mine has a

467
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: PhD on this, there was a whole spate of plays

468
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: and musicals about sury surrogate mothers, and I say that

469
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: with you know, what do you call those things? You

470
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: do with quotation? Yeah, so so mothers that weren't actually biological.

471
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: So Nanny's aunties. You know, we've got Auntie Maine, We've

472
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 2: got Sound of Music, We've got you know, all these

473
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: amazing South Pacific about yeah, mother figures who aren't mothers.

474
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: And that's what I found really interesting about this story

475
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 2: and have really sort of delved into. But we've also

476
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: got the actual mother in the play too, who is

477
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: the woman that we know as the Queen Mother, And

478
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 2: she's a young woman for most of the play, and

479
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: that's been really fun to write too.

480
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: So when is the play set.

481
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: It's set Okay, so it's set mainly in the thirties

482
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: and forties, but it also goes right up to the eighties.

483
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a bit of it's kind of

484
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: like a bit of a royal fever dream like it's

485
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: not it's it's not the Crown, you know. I think

486
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: people will be expecting to walk in and find a

487
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: Shay's Longe and you know, crowns and costumes and things

488
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: like that. But it's super super duper sort of stylized

489
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: and fun and you know, there's lots of allusions to

490
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: Nanny's and Mary Poppins and it's really a bit of

491
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: a wild ride much more. It's not a drawing room

492
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: drama like The Crown.

493
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: So it's fictional, like have you made it up? Or

494
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: have you written it from interviews with Crawf.

495
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: So it's mainly written from so so the sort of

496
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: main kind of source materials, I guess. So the timings

497
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: are all correct, you know, and the things that happened

498
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: are correct.

499
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: But I've imagined so far.

500
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I've imagined all the conversations and I've got

501
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: one thing I cannot get up. Can I just say

502
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: one thing that will break your heart? Ebie? Come on,

503
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: so Crawfy, she's a Scottish nanny and when she you know,

504
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: she got a buttload of money for writing this book

505
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: from an American publisher. The money she bought a house

506
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: in Aberdeen that was on the only road. The only

507
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: way you can get to Balmoral Castle is right past

508
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: her house.

509
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: And her house I have to go past every.

510
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 2: Yep that have to go past her. No other way

511
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: of getting to the castle except for by past her house.

512
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: And the story goes that when she knew that they

513
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: were coming, you know, for the last forty years of

514
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: her life, she would prepare a tea and hope that

515
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: they would drop in, that just one day they would

516
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: drop in. And god, I just there's no record, there's

517
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 2: no public record at all of them ever dropping in.

518
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: And I think Princess Margaret was like one of the

519
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: world's great a holes, right, so forget about her. But

520
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: I don't think Queen Elizabeth II was one of the

521
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: world's great a holes, you know, Like, I think she

522
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: for the most part, seemed like a pretty decent person,

523
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 2: you know, a pretty duty.

524
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 4: Bound, kind of very duty bound, yes, And so I

525
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: want to say that that almost overrode I mean, I

526
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 4: didn't know much about the royals, I only but I

527
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: do remember watching the queen and just how cold she

528
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 4: was very Diana died, Yeah, there's dead so long and

529
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 4: had to be reconvinced to do something and say something,

530
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 4: and you know, just so honor bound and duty bound.

531
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 4: So this is the question that I have for you

532
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: that then I'll ask another question.

533
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: What was the book? Like, like selacious, it's such tell

534
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: any secrets? What were they so sat.

535
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: So the book the book was basically a pr stunt

536
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: because the Foreign Office, the UK Foreign Office, thought it

537
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: would be a really good thing for the British Royal family,

538
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: for Britain as a whole after World War two, to

539
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: ingratiate themselves with the US, so that if there was

540
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: another World War, it wouldn't take the US three years

541
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: to come and join it in Pearl Harbor, you know,

542
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: so that they would be allies. And one of the

543
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: ways they thought of doing this is that Americans always

544
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: been sort of taken by royalty, and they particularly loved

545
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: Elizabeth and her handsome you know, Philip dreamboat husband back then.

546
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: So they wanted to write these articles and they went

547
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: to the Foreign Office kind of went to Queen Elizabeth,

548
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: who was Queen Elizabeth at the time, who we know

549
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: as a queen mother and said, we need to be

550
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: a good idea. She said, great, okay, let's start moving

551
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: on it. So they got together with this with an

552
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: American publisher, and the American publisher started to, you know,

553
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: ask questions of who should be interviewed for a bunch

554
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: of stories about the Queen and Princess Margaret as little girls.

555
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: Where did they go to school, who were their friends,

556
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: what did they do during the war, you know that

557
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: kind of all really harmless night pr sort of stuff

558
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: that would go in the ladies home journal in the US.

559
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: Everybody kept saying to this guy, you've got to talk

560
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: to Crawfi because Crawfie knows all this stuff. And so

561
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: he ended up just going, okay, well, crawfe has to

562
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: do the book the Queen. There's correspondence from the Queen

563
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: mother that says, fine that you do the book, crawfy

564
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: Fine that you get paid for it, but just don't

565
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: put your name to it. We can't have it so

566
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: that everybody thinks it's okay that people who are close

567
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: to us do this. So Crawfie in a way was

568
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, she thought she had permission,

569
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: which she did up to a point. But also, you're

570
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: getting paid eighty five thousand dollars. You're not getting paid

571
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: to be anonymous, are you. So it's kind of this.

572
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: But they specifically asked her not to, and she put

573
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: a name to it.

574
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: The Queen Mother told asked her not to, okay, but

575
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: then the people that were doing did and she did.

576
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: The people that were doing the book sort of convinced

577
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: her that be Queen Mother would be all right with

578
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: it once she read how harmless the book was, and

579
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: of course she wasn't so and the book is harmless,

580
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: and then they just cut and cut it dead.

581
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: You know.

582
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: Oh you love this, Oh, but you might not if

583
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: you're not like into all the royal stories.

584
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: So I'm into this. I'm into this.

585
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, So Harry and Meghan, as everybody knows, it's watch

586
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: the Netflix stuff.

587
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: They went into that, yeah to them.

588
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: So Harry and Meghan were put into Nottingham Cottage, which

589
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: is a tiny little cottage on the grounds of Kensington

590
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: Palace that had been Crawfy and her husband's cottage. When

591
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: Crawfy was retired out of the royal family, they gave

592
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: her Nothingham Cottage, so she was that. Yeah, so she

593
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: was ousted from the cottage, basically her grace and favor cottage.

594
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: Isn't it interesting? Though? I was thinking about this the

595
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: other night. Harry now after writing his book, has been

596
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: completely ousted by them now too. They don't want anything

597
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: to do with him. Now, that's the thing.

598
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: That's what that was. My next question was that who

599
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: haven't they else did that? It's written?

600
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: Well?

601
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: Anything about now?

602
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: This is what This is what I find interesting about

603
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: the end of my play and what I find really

604
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: confusing about it and about the Queen in particular, is

605
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: I was in London when I was researching this play.

606
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: I ended up talking with this man who is one

607
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: of the executive producers of The Crown, and we so

608
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: got into this story, you know, because he of course

609
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: knew the story as well, but they'd never put it

610
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: in The Crown, thank god for me.

611
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's the other thing I was gonna ask,

612
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: was she ever in the Crown anywhere?

613
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: Crawphy, I don't know. You know, it's interesting, the story

614
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: is not, but I love to I reckon.

615
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: But the character might have been.

616
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the character might be in the background or something.

617
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: For nerves like me who would recognize you know, but

618
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: I can't remember now, and I deliberately haven't gone back

619
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: and watched those early ones because I don't want it

620
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: influencing anything in the play. So good, So this this

621
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: I kept saying. I said to this producer, my real

622
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: issue is the end of the play, the ending that

623
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: we know he's going to send everybody out into the

624
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: night depressed as hell, like going what a bunch of

625
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: a holes? Which they, yeah, like, but also I don't like.

626
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: I don't like sending people out without hope or something,

627
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like or without something. I

628
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: don't want them to be going out into the night

629
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: depressed after they I don't want, you know, I don't

630
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: think that it needs to make you happy all the

631
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: time at all, But I personally it's I don't want

632
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: to send people out like there's no hope or something.

633
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm trying to say, but anyway.

634
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't want a European film.

635
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: No, no, not not when people are paying one hundred

636
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: dollars and they're getting a babysitter, and like there's so

637
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: much theater I go to that I think, oh my god,

638
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: if I took my dad to that, you would never

639
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: go to a theater again. That's why people don't go

640
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: to the theater and stuff like that. And I want

641
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: people to see one of my plays and then say,

642
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: go to you even you've got to see that that

643
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: was so, you know, like and I also want them

644
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: to talk about it afterwards. Anyway, this producers, I said,

645
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: I'm really worried about, you know, sending poor old Crawfy

646
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: standing there yet again waiting for them to come for

647
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: tea and they don't come. And he said, well, one

648
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: thing we do know about the queen, he said, you know,

649
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: it might not be in any of the records, but

650
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: what we do know about her actually is that she

651
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: was a deeply Christian woman who really lived her life

652
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: according to the Christian rules of forgiveness. So he thought

653
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: that there was no reason why she couldn't have dropped

654
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 2: in one afternoon just without anybody knowing. There are a

655
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: couple of things she did in her life that did

656
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: show great forgiveness towards people like you know. For example,

657
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: Fergie was always around, Fergie was always housed, and in

658
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: that I think she kind of learned something from the

659
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 2: ousting of Diana. I mean, I don't know, but there's

660
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 2: a few kind of you know, rotten eggs she's kept around.

661
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: Wish that she kept around and kept you know, foot

662
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: of the bill for so I'd like to think that

663
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: maybe she did go and see Crawfy. But also I

664
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: also think that had the Queen Mother died before Crawfi died,

665
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: she definitely would have. But the Queen Mother died a

666
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: long time after Crawfey died. Crawfey died in eighty eight,

667
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: and the Queen Mother died in two thousand and one

668
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: or two thousand and two. I hate that I know

669
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 2: these others.

670
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: I always thought, I hate.

671
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: Myself annoying way too much about the royal post.

672
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: I thought when I found out that you've written a

673
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: play about the royals in any way, I thought you

674
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: were a Royalist. And it's just something I didn't know

675
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: about you. And I'm going to have to accept and

676
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: accept and just tolerate, tolerate, you know, maybe use at

677
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: some point in time if I needed a trivial pursuit

678
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: question answered. But there's not many of us that don't

679
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: know quite a lot now about the royal family because

680
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: of the Crown and because of Diana. Like we're just

681
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, especially now with Meghan, you know, and Harry

682
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: just being such a little rock star. We all just know,

683
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, we've all got opinions and everything. But you

684
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: aren't a Royalist.

685
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 2: No, but mate, it's funny, like you know when you

686
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: say we all know now because of the Crown. My

687
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: knowledge of the royal family is so deep that I

688
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: can watch the Crown and tell you which biographies the

689
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 2: stories have come from. Do you know what I mean?

690
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 2: Like I've read them all, I've done. Like I so,

691
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: I'm not a royalist. I'm absolutely not a Royalist. I'm

692
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of Republican. I find them appalling. I

693
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: find their riches appalling while people sleep on the streets

694
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: of London. I find that display we saw over the weekend,

695
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: the trooping of the color appalling. I find the way

696
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: that Kate and William so decide what information goes to

697
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: the public and what doesn't caulling, you know what I mean,

698
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: if they don't if they want privacy, give your house back,

699
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: stop going on your bloody fancy holidays that are paid for.

700
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: By privacy and private Yeah.

701
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: So I just I find them appalling and they are

702
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of kind of I find them they're so

703
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: normal and kind of uninteresting and not uninteresting. There's obviously

704
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: something that's interesting, but there's.

705
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: You know, not they're not interesting people with all no

706
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: as people.

707
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: They're kind of dull, and I find it an unimpressive

708
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: like I find it's so amazing that they're given no skill,

709
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: no skill, not one of them has ever gone off

710
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: and being a doctor or being done nothing.

711
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah so no, I mean they are not saving the world,

712
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: no good way, no so And yeah it's I get that.

713
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: I am like that with religion, absolutely a poor religion,

714
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: but I know so much about it because of my

715
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 1: gross obsession with it.

716
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: Well, my obsession started out when I was a kid,

717
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: and it started out as I loved them when I

718
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: was a kid. So my mother is a massive Royalist,

719
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 2: and I used to write like I wrote this letter

720
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: to the Queen when I knew she was coming to

721
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: Australia to invite her to come to my school. And

722
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: of course they write back and say, unfortunately, you know

723
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: we won't be able to thank for you. I'd write

724
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: a letter to Diana saying I was so upset that

725
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: Andrew Morton had written that book about her and that

726
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: had hung her out to dry. And I think I

727
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: even put that I thought he should be hanged. Like

728
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: I was just such a little country kid. Yeah, And

729
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: it was only sort of growing up and like learning

730
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 2: about class and equality and being living in London for

731
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: five years and the five years of my life that

732
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: I was a massive, massive lefty. I think I think

733
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: I'm sort of more of a radical centralist these days,

734
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: but maybe not.

735
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: But.

736
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: I don't know it. Just like, it was so terrible

737
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: to me that they had. You know, there's so much

738
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: poverty in the UK, and yet bucking in palaces.

739
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: They let them eat cake.

740
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are empty bedrooms in those places where

741
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: people could be sleeping. Yeah, it's terrible.

742
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: I love that you've written a play about a woman

743
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: who was shunned by them. Yeah, and I really hope

744
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: that you know you've given it to them a little.

745
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you'll have to come and see it.

746
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: Oh, I will be coming to see it. Do you

747
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: think there's going to be some royalists that are going

748
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: to be penning you a little bit of evil letters?

749
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think for example, I don't think i'll be

750
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: hearing from their lawyers, but I think that you know,

751
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 2: royalists like, I think my mother is going to be

752
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 2: a bit upset by it, you know, royalist person.

753
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: But I also think someone's going to say, I hope

754
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: they hang.

755
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be funny?

756
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I hope they're treasure write you a letter, it says,

757
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: and you know what else, I hope they hang you mate.

758
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: And he and Camilsey are meant to be in Australia.

759
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: I don't know if they will be because of his

760
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: cancer when the plays on. And I kind of like he's.

761
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: A big he could come with a ring, a rubber

762
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: ring to sit on.

763
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: He's a big theater fan. He loves the theater. God

764
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: love him. Like he's really into the art.

765
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: There's no way he would come and see a royal play,

766
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: a play about the royals, There's no what's it about

767
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: about her? Speak of her?

768
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: Well? Can I tell you a bit of a cool

769
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: bit of trivia just before? So the only thing that

770
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: makes us think there was a thawing of the freeze

771
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 2: towards crawl Fee is that there's a documentary made just

772
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: before the queen. It was either for her gazillion jubilee

773
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: or her ninetieth birthday something, and it was the family

774
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: or watching home videos and talking about it. And in

775
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 2: this one home video, Charles and the Queen was sitting

776
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: there and in the video and he says, eh, that

777
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 2: was that's miss Crawford there, and she says, yes, that's it.

778
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 2: And that's what everybody thinks, is the thoring like that,

779
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: that that she was kind of her role as being

780
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: accepted back into the fold because she was acknowledged in

781
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: this documentary. So yeah, I don't I don't know. The

782
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: thing that bothers me people, Yeah. The thing that bothers

783
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: me a bit, Oh, eb, I don't know how you'll

784
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: feel about this too, is that I went into writing.

785
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: It for you.

786
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: The queen was the queen mother was like the baddie

787
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: of the piece.

788
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: And I read all her letters, and I read all

789
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 3: her you know, all the biographies, and I went, like

790
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: I said, I went to her homes and stuff like that,

791
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: and I ended up really understanding like why she did

792
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: what she did and actually.

793
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 2: Feeling very warm towards her because she had been fat

794
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: shamed her entire life and the time she was a

795
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: little girl, she was teased about how much she ate

796
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: and then when she came into the royal family, she

797
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 2: was her nickname was Cookie because she was as round

798
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: as an American you know, chocolate chip cookie. And you know,

799
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: like all this her entire life was kind of like

800
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: the frumpy fat second kind of thing. And I and that,

801
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: you know, anyone that's experienced any sort of fat shaming

802
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: that knows that it wears away it self esteem but

803
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: also hardens you that effer doesn't it.

804
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: You know, like it does and does, but also gives

805
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: you great empathy and yeah, sympathy. Yeah, it's a shame

806
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: they didn't call her potato.

807
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure someone did. I'm sure we'd be able to

808
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: find some, like some fat slur that is a potato

809
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 2: slur at her from somewhere.

810
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: Oh.

811
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But Cookie is pretty good as far as fat

812
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: slurs go. Yeah, Cookie is pretty good. It's actually you know,

813
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: that's the thing about cue.

814
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 2: Do you think a lot of fat slurs are actually

815
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 2: kind of cute like potatoes cute cookies? Cue? I don't.

816
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: I don't think they're slurs. I don't even think the

817
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: word fat. Like, you know, people argue all the time

818
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: fat is an insult. Yeah, because people say it that's

819
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: an insult, but it's not.

820
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: It's not.

821
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: It's not a bad word.

822
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: Yea.

823
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: And fat is a type of body, and thin is

824
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: the type of body, and it's a descriptive term. And

825
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: fat is youm.

826
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't it fat?

827
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: Your brain would die? Yeah, you would have no thoughts.

828
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: Don't you think too about? Like like, I've got a

829
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 2: little niece and nephew, and I just know they love

830
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: nestling into.

831
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: My nothing better.

832
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: It's the greatest, isn't it.

833
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: I used to hate. I used to hate being told

834
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: by my grandmother to stop playing with her fat arms

835
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: because it made I didn't understand why. I was just rejected.

836
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: Like all I wanted to do was touch touch it.

837
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 2: You loved it skin, it was beautiful.

838
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: And then I'd touch it until it had gone warm,

839
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: and then i'd touch another part that was cold and

840
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: I'd turn that warm. And she used to go, stop

841
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: doing that. I don't like it, like, don't because it's

842
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: you know, it's so ugly. And I'm like, no, I

843
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: don't understand why you would. I couldn't you know, do that?

844
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 1: In my head?

845
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: What she what?

846
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm just being naughty, that's yeah, And that like I

847
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: had a fat mother, Like it's just it's just every

848
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: child I know that has a fat mother just looks

849
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: at them and loves loves them and holds them like

850
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing better.

851
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: There's nothing better.

852
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: I love putting my arm around a fat waist.

853
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 2: Like having a hug, like with the proper, a proper hug,

854
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: you know the word. It's interesting that tall, skinny men

855
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: rule the world and get all the jobs and all

856
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: the money because they're the worst people in the wor

857
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: world to heart, absolutely worse.

858
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't happen to you. You can't hug them

859
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: because they're too busy making money and you know, firing people.

860
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: Melanie Tate, Taters.

861
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: Needy, let your hair hang down. You've been such a door.

862
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on to my podcast. It's I've

863
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: been wanting you on for months. You can ask my producer.

864
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: You've been on the list for such a long time,

865
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that I finally got you. Thank

866
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: you for giving me shookars with the show. When does

867
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: it begin? When can people book tickets? Are their pre

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00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: sales on?

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00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: Now?

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00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll put the link in our bio. In our bio,

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00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: will put the link in our show notes, and what

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00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: dates does it start? And go to it?

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00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: It opens on the sixth of September, which is going

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Speaker 2: to be here in half an hour. Ton. Yeah, yeah,

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00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: it goes until I think it goes until something like

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Speaker 2: the sixteenth of October, whichever of the break yes goes.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a good run.

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Speaker 2: Yes, about eight weeks.

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Speaker 1: I'll be there, which shook us for the rehearsal start.

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00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: My goodness. Well, I'll be following closely anyone that wants

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Speaker 1: to follow Melanie on the Instagram, so you'll be able

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Speaker 1: to see all the updates on everything that she does.

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Speaker 1: Melanie J. Tate on the Instagram for Jane, yes, not

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Speaker 1: for Jesus, love you, love you

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Speaker 2: Too, Thanks so much, mate, You're the best.