WEBVTT - The ‘carbon bomb’ awaiting Australia‘s new environment minister

0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:10.920
<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Australia has a new Environment Minister and he's got a

0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.840
<v Speaker 1>big job ahead of him fixing the country's broken environment laws.

0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.120
<v Speaker 1>He takes over from Tania Plibasek, who was famously thwarted

0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.560
<v Speaker 1>by the Prime Minister when she tried to fix them.

0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.840
<v Speaker 1>But even before he starts on that, Murray Watt has

0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.080
<v Speaker 1>another decision to make about whether he will let Woodside

0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.400
<v Speaker 1>extend their Northwest Shelf gas project out to twenty seventy,

0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.519
<v Speaker 1>which will allow them to open new gas fields and

0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.479
<v Speaker 1>detonate a carbon bomb into the atmosphere worth ten times

0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:46.640
<v Speaker 1>our current annual emissions. Today National correspondent for the Saturday Paper,

0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.599
<v Speaker 1>Mike Second on Murray Watt, his plans for the environment

0:00:50.880 --> 0:01:00.000
<v Speaker 1>and the big decision he has to make. It's Monday

0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:08.839
<v Speaker 1>twenty six Myke, Australia has a new Environment Minister, Murray

0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:09.920
<v Speaker 1>What what's he like?

0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, he's competent. I think you would say that's the

0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.080
<v Speaker 2>first thing. He seems to be a very competent bloke

0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:17.160
<v Speaker 2>and as a result of that he's come to be

0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.440
<v Speaker 2>seen as sort of one of the government's foremost fixes

0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, they give him the hard jobs because he's

0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.200
<v Speaker 2>prepared to take on powerful, even dangerous vested interests. So

0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, as Agriculture Minister, he took on the farming

0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.760
<v Speaker 2>lobby and he steered through parliament legislation ending the live

0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.480
<v Speaker 2>sheep export trade. When he was Minister for Employment Workplace Relations,

0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.319
<v Speaker 2>he pushed through laws cracking down on corruption in the

0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.280
<v Speaker 2>construction industry. You know, that involved biking gangs and the CFMU,

0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.600
<v Speaker 2>and he did that over the objections of the CFMU itself,

0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.760
<v Speaker 2>but also you know, other unions with strong links to

0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.320
<v Speaker 2>the Labor Party. And I might add he was given

0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.640
<v Speaker 2>extra police protection at the time because it was considered

0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to be an actually physically dangerous position that he was in.

0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.360
<v Speaker 3>His behavior as abhorrent and something that needs to be

0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.600
<v Speaker 3>stamped out. The overwhelming majority of the union movement in

0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Australia is appalled by these allegations, just as your viewers

0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.919
<v Speaker 3>are as well. I think people are sick and tired

0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.640
<v Speaker 3>of this behavior occurring. They want to see action, and

0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.640
<v Speaker 3>that's exactly what they'll get from me and from the

0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Albanese government.

0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Now, though I think he confronts an even more intractable,

0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:25.400
<v Speaker 2>if less physically dangerous problem, which is reforming Australia's main

0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.240
<v Speaker 2>national environment law, the EPBC Act. And I think the

0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.640
<v Speaker 2>fact that he has been appointed to do the job

0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.960
<v Speaker 2>is the fact that the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanizi he

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:35.880
<v Speaker 2>wants this sorted.

0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.840
<v Speaker 1>How's his appointment being received by various stakeholders in his

0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:41.080
<v Speaker 1>new portfolio area.

0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, Bob Brown, sort of farther figure of the greens

0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.760
<v Speaker 2>around the country, he was very strongly anti Murray Watt.

0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:49.480
<v Speaker 2>He thought that he was coming in to do a

0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.799
<v Speaker 2>hatchet job. He called it a kick in the guts

0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.280
<v Speaker 2>for nature. The Minerals Council, on the other hand, representing

0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the mining industry, released one of those kind of boiler

0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.320
<v Speaker 2>plate we welcome the new appointee sort of media releases.

0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think a lot of people on both sides

0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.480
<v Speaker 2>of the debate are just tired of things being bogged

0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.720
<v Speaker 2>down unstalled. On the environment front, It's probably fair to

0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.440
<v Speaker 2>say there are some intractably anti environment elements of the

0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.160
<v Speaker 2>resources industry who don't want anything to happen, but there's

0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot on the industry side as well as the

0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.840
<v Speaker 2>environment side, who just want to get As Luisa Waters

0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.840
<v Speaker 2>might say, just want to get shit done, you know, right,

0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.639
<v Speaker 2>and he takes over from Tenure Plebersek, who famously got

0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:30.160
<v Speaker 2>very close to a deal with the.

0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Greens to fix our environmental laws before Anthony Albanezi famously intervened,

0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.480
<v Speaker 1>So can you tell me about these laws and why

0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.400
<v Speaker 1>they are not working well?

0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.000
<v Speaker 2>The major laws call the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation

0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Act EPBC Act, and it was legislated way back in

0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.880
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety nine by the Howard government and it's been

0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.040
<v Speaker 2>reviewed a couple of times since then. To quote the

0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.760
<v Speaker 2>prominent businessman, former a Triple C chairman, Graham Samuel, who

0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.880
<v Speaker 2>undertook one of those reviews, EPBC Act has been quote

0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.800
<v Speaker 2>an abysmal failure unquote.

0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.200
<v Speaker 4>The important thing is this is that we've got the

0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.600
<v Speaker 4>State of the Environment Report. We've got my own views

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.960
<v Speaker 4>expressed in the review, which followed extensive consultation, extensive right

0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:19.040
<v Speaker 4>around Australia, and clearly the environment is not being well served,

0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.240
<v Speaker 4>in fact not being served at all properly by the

0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:22.960
<v Speaker 4>current laws.

0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.080
<v Speaker 2>They don't mention climate and quite clearly, you know we've

0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.000
<v Speaker 2>got an extinction crisis in this country, so clearly they're

0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:35.279
<v Speaker 2>not fulfilling their role of protecting the environment. Like I said,

0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.560
<v Speaker 2>they've been a couple of reviews. First one was back

0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.400
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and nine, then the Samuel Review in

0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.320
<v Speaker 2>October twenty nineteen, and the report that came back was damning.

0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.000
<v Speaker 2>It just called for a radical Overhall said the Act

0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.560
<v Speaker 2>wasn't fit for purpose. It recommended thirty eight changes that

0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.680
<v Speaker 2>included legally binding national standards to protect wildlife, critical habitats,

0:04:55.720 --> 0:05:00.200
<v Speaker 2>heritage sites, independent oversight from a body or bodies, an

0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.680
<v Speaker 2>enforcement of those standards. It called for the prioritization of

0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.640
<v Speaker 2>indigenous engagement and the protection of cultural heritage. It called

0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.080
<v Speaker 2>for better data collection, and it called for reform of

0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the environmental offsets regime, which frankly does not adequately protect

0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.640
<v Speaker 2>critical habitat from development. That was the report. Nothing came

0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.720
<v Speaker 2>of it. So it's been a long time that reform

0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.159
<v Speaker 2>has been promised and not been delivered, you know. I

0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.039
<v Speaker 2>spoke to Kelly Oshannessy from the Australian Conservation Foundation. She

0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.160
<v Speaker 2>made exactly that point. She said, reform has been promised

0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.279
<v Speaker 2>and not delivered for a decade and a half now

0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.640
<v Speaker 2>and now, of course with the appointment Murray, what it's

0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:38.400
<v Speaker 2>been promised again.

0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So has he going about that so far?

0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, bear in mind, of course he's only had his

0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.359
<v Speaker 2>feet under the desk for what two weeks now, but

0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.560
<v Speaker 2>it's been something a whirlwind of consultation, which I guess

0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.840
<v Speaker 2>is a good sign. No sooner to get the job

0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.520
<v Speaker 2>than he jetted off to Western Australia and the West

0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Australian government, a labor government, was the one that had stop,

0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the previous reform effort by a Tania Plibersik. Famously,

0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Roger Cook, the Premiere of Western Australia, intervened and as

0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.760
<v Speaker 2>a result of that, Albanezi told the Greens that there

0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.560
<v Speaker 2>was going to be no deal with Tania Plibersick. So

0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.279
<v Speaker 2>I spoke to Murray while he was over in WA

0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.440
<v Speaker 2>and he said that for those very reasons, he'd wanted

0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.040
<v Speaker 2>to make Western Australia his first trip, and he pointed

0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.160
<v Speaker 2>out that he has some major decisions about pending projects

0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.520
<v Speaker 2>over there, but his main job, as he sees it,

0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.559
<v Speaker 2>is to get the law changes through. He's been meeting

0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.240
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of people. He met with Roger Cook,

0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.800
<v Speaker 2>He's met with various state members whose responsibilities overlap with

0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.279
<v Speaker 2>his He's met with mining groups, he's met with business groups,

0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:45.800
<v Speaker 2>He's met with environment advocates and First Nations organizations. It's

0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.200
<v Speaker 2>quite impressive how many different people he's spoken to you.

0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.159
<v Speaker 2>The way he put it, he said he's deliberately meeting

0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.159
<v Speaker 2>with everyone that he can because he genuinely wants to

0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.720
<v Speaker 2>know all points of view before he makes a call

0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.080
<v Speaker 2>on the reforms.

0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps that's a.

0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Good sign, but of course how he comes to be

0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.200
<v Speaker 2>judged will depend not just on whether he can land

0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.120
<v Speaker 2>these reforms, but on another big decision that he has

0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.920
<v Speaker 2>to make imminently, long before he gets around to legislating

0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:12.160
<v Speaker 2>the EPBC changes.

0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:26.360
<v Speaker 1>After the break Murray Watt's first big test. Mike Murray

0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.240
<v Speaker 1>Watt is tasked with fixing Australia's environment laws. But before that,

0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.360
<v Speaker 1>he's got a big decision to make, which will tell

0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.760
<v Speaker 1>us about his priorities. Tell me about that decision. Well.

0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.400
<v Speaker 2>He has committed himself to making a call by the

0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.040
<v Speaker 2>end of this month on a proposal to extend the

0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.560
<v Speaker 2>life of Woodside Energy's Northwest Shelf fossil gas project out

0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.240
<v Speaker 2>to twenty seventy. If he waves it through, he effectively

0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.160
<v Speaker 2>detonates what Callioshannessy calls a carbon bomb.

0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.480
<v Speaker 5>So what we expect the government to do is to

0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.000
<v Speaker 5>say that they aren't going to extend the gas factory

0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.760
<v Speaker 5>from twenty thirty to twenty seventy, which is the request

0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.040
<v Speaker 5>from Woodside that they see a future that is clean

0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.040
<v Speaker 5>and a country that's powered with renewables, and they're going

0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.200
<v Speaker 5>to drive that transition, and they're.

0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Going to according to their state government's COIs, the consequence

0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.440
<v Speaker 2>will be the release of the equivalent of around four

0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.960
<v Speaker 2>point three billion with a b tons of carbon dioxide

0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:27.520
<v Speaker 2>into the atmosphere. That's roughly ten times Australia's current annual

0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:28.600
<v Speaker 2>total emissions.

0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.880
<v Speaker 1>So it's a huge new source of emissions. How does

0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.800
<v Speaker 1>that square with the government's and net zero emissions commitment.

0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:37.640
<v Speaker 2>It depends on how you look at it. I guess

0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.880
<v Speaker 2>you would say. The WA government approved the extension at

0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the end of last year after a long and convoluted

0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.840
<v Speaker 2>assessment process, on the basis that the domestic emissions, that is,

0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.480
<v Speaker 2>the amount of gas released in this country as a

0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.040
<v Speaker 2>result of the project being extended, would be phased down

0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.800
<v Speaker 2>to zero by twenty fifty, in large part through the

0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.600
<v Speaker 2>purchase of carbon offsets, but still it would release one

0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.920
<v Speaker 2>hundred forty million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent in its lifetime,

0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.160
<v Speaker 2>which is a lot, but it's dwarfed by the hymn

0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.120
<v Speaker 2>out of greenhouse gas that would result from the burning

0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:17.040
<v Speaker 2>of that gas overseas. The waepa's approval document calculated that

0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.880
<v Speaker 2>that would be about eighty million tons every year out

0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.080
<v Speaker 2>to twenty seventy hence the astronomical total of four point

0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.520
<v Speaker 2>three billion tons. As to how it fits with our

0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.079
<v Speaker 2>climate commitments, well, the wa and federal governments take the

0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.120
<v Speaker 2>view that emissions generated outside Australia from the burning of

0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.200
<v Speaker 2>our fossil fuel exports are not a consideration, and there's

0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.720
<v Speaker 2>some justification for this because under the Paris Agreement, emissions

0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.559
<v Speaker 2>are accounted for according to where the fossil fuels are burnt,

0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:50.680
<v Speaker 2>not where their mind, The distinction that they make between

0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.320
<v Speaker 2>emissions produced by burning Australian fossil fuels domestically and abroad

0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:01.840
<v Speaker 2>is obviously artificial, right because carbon dioxide doesn't respect national boundaries.

0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:03.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, it warms the planet just as much whether

0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.600
<v Speaker 2>it's burnt here or somewhere else, and has the same

0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.760
<v Speaker 2>effect on nature, and as Oshannessy says, it's an increasingly

0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.400
<v Speaker 2>litigious area and at some point, she says, they're going

0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.400
<v Speaker 2>to win that in a court of law. But be

0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that as it may, you know, it's not going to

0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.000
<v Speaker 2>have any impact on a decision due by May thirty

0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.560
<v Speaker 2>one on the extension of the Northwest Shelf project.

0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.280
<v Speaker 1>So when you spoke to Marie what about this, what

0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:28.120
<v Speaker 1>did he have to say?

0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, what, politely but firmly refused to talk about it,

0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, notwithstanding the fact that it's of enormous interest

0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.040
<v Speaker 2>to the resources industry, to environmentalists and of course to

0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the media like us. In fact, he said he had

0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.400
<v Speaker 2>explicitly said to people in meetings that he could not

0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.920
<v Speaker 2>discuss that because he considered that to be improper. So

0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 2>he hadn't met with the West Australian Conservation Council, for example,

0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.800
<v Speaker 2>or with Woodside, because each of them had big stakes

0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.360
<v Speaker 2>applications on the decision, so he didn't think it was appropriate.

0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.360
<v Speaker 2>In fact, you know, I said, well, maybe you can

0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.000
<v Speaker 2>just outline for me, you know, what you think of

0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the pros and cons of one side or the other,

0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and he wouldn't even do that. He did tacitly. I

0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.880
<v Speaker 2>guess you would say acknowledge one big con when I

0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.400
<v Speaker 2>raised it, and that is that the Burret Peninsula, which

0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.680
<v Speaker 2>is where the woodside gas hub sits, also happens to

0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.160
<v Speaker 2>be right in the middle of probably the world's largest

0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 2>collection of ancient rock art. There's more than a million petroglyphs,

0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe two million, and accurate accounting is yet to be done,

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.600
<v Speaker 2>stretching over an area of thirty seven thousand hectares, some

0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.439
<v Speaker 2>of them forty thousand years or more old. They're called

0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.480
<v Speaker 2>the Mujuga petroglyphs. And the thing is they're rapidly being

0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.800
<v Speaker 2>degraded by emissions from this woodside plant, particularly nitrogen oxides

0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.400
<v Speaker 2>and what they call volatile organic compounds.

0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.960
<v Speaker 1>So are there any moves to protect or safeguard these petroglyphs.

0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's certainly recommendations that there should be. The WAEPA

0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.360
<v Speaker 2>said that if an extension was to be granted to

0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the project, it should be conditional on woodside cutting those

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.200
<v Speaker 2>emissions by at least forty percent by twenty thirty and

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.120
<v Speaker 2>then more. But that's not enough, says O'shannessy, and she

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.880
<v Speaker 2>notes that the traditional owners are opposed to the extension

0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.079
<v Speaker 2>of the project. She referred to it as a slow

0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.600
<v Speaker 2>moving duke and gorge, you know, referencing Rio Tinto's destruction

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.319
<v Speaker 2>of those ancient rock shelters back in twenty twenty, because

0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's undeniable. This rock art is being degraded

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.640
<v Speaker 2>by the pollution from the plant. Furthermore, the Australian government

0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.559
<v Speaker 2>itself has recognized the global importance of this what they

0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.479
<v Speaker 2>call the Murojuga cultural landscape. In January twenty twenty three,

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.400
<v Speaker 2>they nominated it for inscription on the World Heritage List

0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and a decision on that is due to be made

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>by UNESCO's World Heritage Committee in July. And so you know,

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Murray what sort of tacitly admitted that this was a

0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.800
<v Speaker 2>big consideration because he said that the government remained quote

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>absolutely committed to protecting this World Heritage listing because it

0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.520
<v Speaker 2>was a quote very special and important place and will

0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 2>know soon enough whether Murray what decides to down on

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the side of jobs, mining company profits and government tax

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 2>revenues or on the side of ancient culture and the

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.200
<v Speaker 2>global climate. The portense don't look particularly good, as O'shannessi says,

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.839
<v Speaker 2>and as I think history would dictate. So if he

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 2>grants that extension, O'shannessy says, it will be devastating.

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 6>Nowhere else in the world has this amazing cultural feature

0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 6>that is at Murojuga, which is also up for World

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 6>Heritage listing, and the Northwest Self decision is right next door.

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 6>It's producing acid rain and it is destroying the rock

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:34.760
<v Speaker 6>art and that is scientific proof.

0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 1>And following Mike, what sense do you have from Murray

0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Water about how he thinks of himself in the role

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.040
<v Speaker 1>of Australias Environment Minister.

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, he talked to me about his childhood, you know,

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 2>bushwalking and camping with his family as a younger man,

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and he said he hoped to do more of it

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>in the future. He said also that he had seen

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the consequences of climate change close up through his previous

0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.200
<v Speaker 2>ministerial jobs in emergency management and agriculture, which are both

0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 2>very effective by climate change. Most importantly, I think he

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 2>is genuinely committed to making the EPBC Act fit for purpose.

0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 2>And he told me, and I'll quote him, I do

0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 2>see this role as being, if you like, guardian of

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Australia's natural environment while also having responsibility for facilitating sustainable development,

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 2>given my role in granting or rejecting approvals, so he

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 2>knows that he's a bit of stride a bar by

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>a fence. Kelleyoshannessy from his Stralian Conservation Foundation still thinks

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 2>he's a good appointment. The way she sees it, we

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 2>do need a serious reformer and by all accounts that's

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 2>what Murray Watt is. Interestingly, she also says that even

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 2>if he approves this Northwest Shelf extension, it won't really

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 2>be on him because it's the Labor Party's policy to

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.680
<v Speaker 2>support fossil fuels and that's just the way it is.

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.840
<v Speaker 2>I suspect though that won't stop the ACF and other

0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 2>green groups laying into him if and when he does

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 2>tick it off. But for his part, what has shown

0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 2>throughout his career that he's prepared to wear the opprobrium

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 2>in this portfolio as he has in his previous jobs,

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 2>because that is the lot of a political fixer. He said,

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 2>every decision I make, I know that I'm going to

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 2>be making some people unhappy, which every way I go,

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and he said, that's just the role.

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Mike, thank you for your time.

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Daniel.

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, today, nine children have been killed

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:33.960
<v Speaker 1>in an Israeli air struck that hit the home of

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 1>a doctor in Gaza who was on duty at the time.

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Ala Al Najar is a pediatric specialist who was

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 1>treating victims of other attacks in the hospital when she

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 1>received the news that nine out of her ten children

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 1>had been killed. The oldest child was reportedly nine years old.

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>One of the doctor's children and her husband were also

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 1>injured but survived. Israel's military said its aircraft had struck

0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 1>a number of suspects in carn Unis on Friday and

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 1>was reviewing the claim that harm had been done to

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 1>uninvolved citizens. And Deputy leader of the National's Kevin Hogan

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>says David Little Proud has the support and respect of

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 1>his party. Little Proud walked away from the coalition last week,

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 1>but is now back in talks with Liberal leader Susan

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Lee about restarting the partnership. While speculation over whether David

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Little Proud should remain leader has begun, Little as he

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>doesn't care if he loses his job because he was

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 1>enacting the wishes of the majority of his party group.

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks for listening,