WEBVTT - Deadly whale crusader to powerful law maker: Shane Rattenbury Pt.1 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.119 Detective see a side of life the average persons never 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.160 exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.080 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.600 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.480 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.560 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.559 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.360 Welcome to another episode of I Catch Killers. On I 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.280 Catch Killers, we'd like to look at crime from all perspectives. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.200 As a cop, I tried fighting crime with a gun 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.960 and handcuffs. Since leaving the police, I've found there are 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.240 other ways to fight crime. Today's guest looks at crime 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.040 a bit differently, not just because of his beliefs, but 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.640 because of the position he holds. See today's guest, Shane Rattenbury, 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.000 is not only a politician, he also holds a position 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.880 of significant power as the Act's attorney General. For those 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.039 that don't know the role of an attorney general, it 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.440 could be said the Attorney General is the highest law 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.839 officer in the state. That position comes with immense responsibilities 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.679 and powers, and today we're going to look at fighting 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.640 crime from an interesting perspective. Shane is an interesting character 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.480 and is true to his beliefs, as demonstrated in his 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.840 activities as a green Peace activist. He has some amazing 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.200 stories from those times. Today we're going to find out 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.039 who Shane Rattenbury is and get his thoughts on a 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.560 whole range of things, including how he thinks is the 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.960 best way to fight crime. Shane Rattenbury, Welcome to I 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:53.720 Catch Killers. 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:54.760 Thanks very much, Gary. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:56.960 Now, I know you're a very busy man. We've been 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.320 trying to a schedule a time for you to come on, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:02.120 so thanks for making the time. 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:03.200 It's great to join you. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.640 Well, as a role of an attorney general, I would 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.440 imagine that's a pressure position. 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.040 It certainly is, and your description of it has sort 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.360 of been the first law officer of the jurisdiction is 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.800 exactly right. It means you've got responsibility for the court's 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.200 legal policy, the direction of the criminal justice system, but 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.560 also civil things, so we deal with defamation and all 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.799 those sort of civil sides of the law as well. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.880 And you've got the background in law. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.799 Yes, I did my law degree at a and you 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.840 quite some years ago now never went on too practice law. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.160 I actually then took my law skills into other places. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.959 But it's great to end up backing this role where 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.520 you have an opportunity to think through how do we 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:41.880 make the law better for people? 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.040 Yeah. Yeah, Well, it gives you that perspective on how 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.080 you can change and make a difference. And that's what 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.080 we're going to have a deep dive into today's chat 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.840 because some of the things that you're looking at in 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.520 terms of let's call law reform or just better ways 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.720 of fighting crime. I'm passionate about that. Since I've left 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.880 the I'm thinking, well, I thought that I was doing 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.880 some good as a police officer, but there's a lot 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.919 that can be doe outside of that realm. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.480 Yeah, indeed, And look, you know, the police play a 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.000 fantastic role and I really admire the work they do 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.480 because they every time they turn up somewhere they're usually 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.840 meeting people on the worst day of their lives. Very 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.400 much how I think about it, and I've seen that 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.080 in action. What we need to do is make sure 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.840 that the police are focused on the things that we 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.680 really need police for. But so much crime is oriented 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:33.079 around poverty, disadvantage, mental health issues, drug and health issues, drugging, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.240 alcohol issues, I should say, and we need to make 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.400 sure that we have a different response to those issues. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:39.760 That's very much how I think about it. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.720 Yeah, there's definitely a school of thought that the prevention 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.840 is better than cure. And I, even as a police 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.160 officer for thirty four years, I was always concerned when 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.280 we're going to solve a problem through arrests, like, Okay, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.360 this is a problem where we're going to raise the 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.360 stakes high, We're going to bring in mandatory sentence, whatever. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.000 One thing that in the documentation I've been going through 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.520 in preparation for this that I really like because it's 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.040 been a pet hate of mind throughout my police career 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.440 that come election time, quite often the platform is law 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.520 and order and the response is, let's crack down on crime. 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.760 We're going to make legislation tougher, We're going to put 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.080 longer sentencing, that type of thing, and I always thought 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.479 we miss the point, but that was what was often 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.200 portrayed when there was a law and order issue in 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.920 discussion leading up to an election. Quite often the response 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:31.720 to that, Okay, we're going to get tough on law. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.920 From my perspective, I don't think that always works. Would 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:35.799 you share that. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.599 It is a really common thing to see in election campaigns. 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.400 We've just seen it in the Northern Territory election a 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.560 couple of weeks and the new Chief Minister, her pitch was 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.440 the first meeting I'll have after becoming Chief Minister is 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.360 to go and see the Police Commissioner. We're seeing it 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.560 come through in the Queensland election which is due later 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.119 this year. We're in an election cycle in the Act 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.640 at the moment, we're also seeing it there. It is 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.240 really common and it's a simple and appealing answer, but 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.240 it's not getting We're right across the country we are 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.120 seeing prison populations go up. People don't feel any safer. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.240 But when you look at the Justice Reinvestment Agenda, which 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.760 is saying that I'm really focused on, you are starting 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.520 to see and we've got some great examples which I'm 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.520 sure we'll get a chance to get into where it 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.080 is starting to reduce crime. People have had long lives 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.080 of criminal history are getting better. You know, they're going 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.200 on better tracks. It makes our whole community safer if 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.440 we can make this investment. I talk about it as 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.160 building communities, not prisons. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.200 Yeah, well, I'm all for it. The trouble is to 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.119 sell that, Like I speak to people on the street, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.000 and they know as an ex cop and a crime 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.400 will happen, they are this person should be put away forever. 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.720 That type of narrative, And so I can see how 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.080 it's easy leading into an election if you want the 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:49.119 popular vote to let's just get tough on crime. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.680 But the alternative story is more complex, and so it's 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.120 also harder when you're trying to tell a story and 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.120 you know, fifteen second media grabs or a back and 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.760 forth interview on radio where you've got six or seven minutes, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.200 it's hard to tell a more complex story. And so 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.400 the simpler story works in that political context. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.200 Here, the journey I've been on, it's been a journey 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.320 in the four or five years i've been out of 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.000 the police. One thing that and I see him as 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.159 somewhat as a mentor and people would have heard me 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.720 reference him before is a man that had his son 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.880 killed in a murder. It was a shocking murder, and 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.240 that beats a arm robbery. Working there to pay his 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:32.680 way through UNI and someone's coming and killed his son, 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.839 shod his son. He talks about getting tough on crime, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.200 and when that happened, he reacted the way that you 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.400 would expect someone to react. There was outrage, he wanted 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.120 to get revenge, all the type of feelings that you'd 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.599 come with having a loved one killing those circumstances. But 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.880 he's of a view and I still the quote that 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.320 we don't need to get tough on crime, we need 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.880 to get smart on crime, and if we can reduce crime, 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:04.000 we reduce victims. And it's a simple narrative, but whenever 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.280 I have a discussion with someone, yeah, but if there's 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.840 less crime, there's less victims. Isn't that where we should 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:09.239 be heading. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.680 Absolutely, it's all about making our community safe. Now that 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.760 grief is so understandable, horrible things happen to people, and 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.200 particularly the lose child I think is one of the 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.800 worst things that can happen to people. Because there's that saying, 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.560 you know, you should never bury your own child. It 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.080 takes a lot of courage to be able to overcome that, 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.000 and I have absolute admiration. Now, there are some people 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.640 simply need to go to jail. There are people who 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.920 are genuinely dangerous to the community and they need to 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.880 spend time in custody to keep the rest of the 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.920 community safe. But so many people I spend eight years 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.880 as corrections minutes. So there are so many people in 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:49.280 these systems who are therefore reasons that are related to poverty, disadvantage, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.200 the way they grow up, mental health problems, all of 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.840 these things. We can do so much better by putting 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:56.800 them on a different track. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.720 Well, putting them on the different track. And that's very 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.160 much what Ken Marslow dedicated a large portion of his 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.680 life too, with an organization Enough is enough and he 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.360 would go in the prisons and help where he could. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.400 But yeah, I find that type of focus on the 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.520 way of fighting crime something that's productive and something that 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.400 everyone everyone benefits from. Before we get into talking about 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.840 how we're going to fight crime and reduce crime and 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.000 make the well the better place, let's find out a 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.200 little bit about yourself. Tell us you're sorry. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.680 Oh look, I grew up in a small country town, 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.640 Bateman's Bay, on the south coast of It is great, 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.040 it's grown a bit since I left. I then won 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.760 a scholarship to go to school up in Canberra. My 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.880 mom was a single parent household. My mom took my 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.480 sister and I up to camera think it will be 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.520 better opportunity for the whole family, and she was right. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:43.800 You know. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.440 I got a great schooling and then first in family 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.720 to go to university, so that was really a big 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:50.880 thing as well. But you know, I grew up in 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.959 public housing, so I sort of look at my life 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.760 over very fortunate. Even though I grew up in a 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.080 single parent household, we had good family around us, you know, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.800 because I see a of the people that come into 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.439 our criminal justice system and they've grown up without that support, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.720 without the encouragement, And I reflect on that a lot 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.440 in my own good fortune really that I did have 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.080 people around me who sort of saw how to put 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.760 a good life together. They encourage us into sport and 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.280 cubs and those kind of community activities that really make 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:20.360 a difference in your life. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.640 Yeah, it's amazing that having one good person or that 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.640 love and nurturing that can point lives in the right direction. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:32.760 You're somewhat of an activist, which I like it and 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:34.920 I want to dig into that because I think it's 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.760 fascinating the stuff that you did with Greenpeace. But when 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.880 did you become an environmentalist? Was that the young age? 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:42.880 What was it that drew you to that? 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.319 Yeah? Relatively young. I sort of described myself as a 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.000 child of the eighties. There was some big environmental issues 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.280 around me. Had the hole in the ozone layer, there 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.280 was the fight to protect the Antarctica from mining, big logging, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.400 conversations in Australia about protecting the forests, and that was 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.240 just that age I was sort of starting I think 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.560 about the world and it made a big impression on me. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.600 And you know, I got involved with some environmental groups 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.839 when I was at university. The Green Party formed around 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.839 that time, and Bob Brown, as the leader of the party, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.959 was a real role model and inspiration to me. And 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.280 so I just got more and more involved and I 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:17.360 guess found my place. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.040 Yeah, with Bob Brown. Is it just my recollection? But 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.280 isn't there a classic failure of him on the surfboard 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.440 in the harbor with a ship coming in? 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.640 No, that's Ian Cohen was also involved in the early 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.920 days of the Greens. But Bob's from tazzy Ian's from 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:31.480 up here in. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:36.679 Sydney, damning the Franklin's Yeah, okay, yeah, but yeah, it 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.240 was a sign of the times. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.439 And I was really inspired by that notion of peaceful activism. Yes, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.760 you know, it is a break in the law at times, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.319 but in a way that's not about it's about crime 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.960 as such that there's not victims. It's a different type. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.040 It's the civil disobedience and very much that Gandhi sort 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.400 of notion of putting yourself there to make a difference 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.240 without harming others, and that nonviolent part of it's always 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:00.920 been so important for me as an activist. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.080 I wasn't involved in a lot of from the policing 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.439 point of view with protests, but I know that some 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.280 people where there was logging or mining protests and all 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.880 that there was a good relationship with the police because 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.160 it wasn't a violent protest and there would be a 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.920 bit of laughter and they'd end up playing cricket together 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.160 or whatever. That was still achieving the goals, but it 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:21.200 wasn't violent. 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.320 Now, absolutely, I've had some terrific relationships with police over 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:25.840 the years. Because I had a law degree by the 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.600 time I started doing stuff with Greenpeace, I was often 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.120 the one that was sort of designated to talk to 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.480 the police and work through the issues and by help 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.200 people out at the other end. You know, It's some 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.840 fun times and sort of talking to the police about 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:39.200 all right, how are we going to work this out? 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.400 And they got a job to do. We totally respect 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.839 that they shouldn't face violence in their workplace. Now I 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:46.880 know they do, but in that kind of context, yeah, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:48.200 I think they do appreciate it. You sort of sit 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:49.880 there saying, look, we're not here to give you guys 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.480 a hard time. We're just here to do this. Yeah, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.360 and this is our plan, you know. And ultimately they 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.360 ended up having to arrest people at times, but even 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.600 those people went away peacefully and so it didn't present 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.880 a of a personal safety risk to the police. 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.320 Yeah, well, what's for currency, what's going on down in Melbourne? 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.200 That's ugly all round, isn't it? With the protests down 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.440 there and not the nature of protesting. Respect people's rights 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.000 to protest, but it just it seems to be escalating 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.200 on both sides, and it's never nice to see. 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:18.559 Yeah, I don't like to see that sort of stuff. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.560 I think there's a way to make your point without 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.200 we see people throwing bottles and bricks at police. There's 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.080 no place so that the police don't deserve to have 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.040 that when they go to work. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.160 Yeah, yeah, no, I agree, and that it's unfortunate when 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.800 that happens. But with your involvement in Greenpeace, it wasn't 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:39.000 just a fleeting uni radical get involved. You're right in 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.560 you had positions in their held positions. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.440 I was lucky enough it became my job and I 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.200 worked here in Australia for a number of years and 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.760 then went overseas and actually went to lead Greenfiace's Global 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.760 Oceans campaigning out of Amsterdam, which is where the international 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.920 headquarters is, including a trip to Antarctica taking on the 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.079 Japanese whaling fleet. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.240 Tell us about that, because that was fairly intense, was 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:01.760 rammed and. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.120 Yeah, yeah, it was a pretty full on time. So 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.520 we took two ships and about sixty crew helicopter and 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.800 headed off into the Southern Ocean to try and find 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.120 the Japanese whaling fleet. Now that's the hardest part. It's 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.680 actually fine, they don't want to be found, but That 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.640 was a year that Japan announced that we're going to 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.240 start taking hump back in fin whales, which at that 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.360 point that was still both endangered species, and we just 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.840 couldn't stand by and let that happen, so we sailed 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.080 out of Cape Town. Turns out I get really seasick, 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:29.640 so it was a pretty tough trip for me. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:30.880 It's not fun, is it. No. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.559 You're heading across the Roaring forties and fifties to get 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.160 down to Antarctica, big oceans, and I was on an 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.280 ice breaking vessel. I've got a rounded hule, so they 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.120 blob around in the ocean. So I lost a bit 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.439 of weight heating down there. And this is a visual 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.600 not a visual meeting. Your listeners can't see me. But 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:47.800 you know, I got a background in sort of running. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.760 And I've got a lot of weight to lose. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.520 I didn't thought I lost some weight down there just 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.720 because I couldn't keep the food down. But look, once 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.720 you get down there, we found the Japanese whaling fleet 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.120 and we undertook a lot of that direct action, nonviolent, 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.439 but you know, getting in those small inflatable boats, putting 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.319 ourselves between the whale and the hardpurn it's pretty wild 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.640 time you're down there. The water's freezing cold. It's only 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:08.440 one or two degree. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.280 It can't last too long if you fall in. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:12.920 I mean it's the high of summer, so it's twenty 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.199 four hours a daylight, but it's not warm, and you've 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.640 got ice floating around in the water, small icebergs. There's whales. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.080 There's a guy with a grenade tipped harpoun pointed directly 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:21.400 at you. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.640 It got fairly willing at stages because they're water cannons 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.160 and all sorts of stuff. Did you get a rested? 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:30.320 All? 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:31.400 Did? Well? 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.320 There's no police. You're on the highest seas. There is 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.960 literally no law. It is the wild West out on. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.320 The ocean, and so this is your time playing pirates. 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.760 Yeah, it's just us versus them down there, and you 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.160 know the rules really are I mean, there are rules 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.240 of shipping, you know how to safely interact at sea. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.800 But obviously we're then we're trying to give them a 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.520 hard time. We're trying to interfere and stop them catching 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.280 the whales. Most of our putting our own bodies on 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.560 the line and just being in the way and bearing 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:57.400 witness to that as well. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.680 When you were down positioning yourself between the the whaling 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.560 ships and the whale you were putting. I was watching that. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.880 There was fairly risky stuff. How did you feel. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.800 Yeah, you sort of do all this training, you think 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.160 about what it's going to be like. But I never 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.360 forget the first moment. I was standing on this small 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.520 rubber boat in the middle of Antartia and there's we're 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.000 going around at eighteen knights, there's ice, there's a whale 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:21.000 just in front of us, and there's a guy putting 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.040 this grenade tip tarpoon at and I looked up and thought, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.840 how did I get here? And am I going to 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.640 survive this? Now we did, and you then just click 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.120 into all the training mode and the adrenaline takes over 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.080 and you're in the moment. But yeah, there was certain 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.320 a moment I thought, oh, And the other moment was 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.000 we did have an incident down there where we crashed 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.840 in Japanese whaling ship crashed into us. I was on 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.240 a small boat fifty meters long, so eight hundred times, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.800 and there's eight thousand Japanese factory vessel crashed into us. 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:48.840 And at that moment I said and thought. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.400 Oh, oh, that would have made a hell of a noise. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.680 The noise was unbelievable, just the crunching of metal on metal, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.000 and I just had anything, this ship's going to turtle over, 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.400 and we're in the fridge of waters of Antarctica, and 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.960 we are in life here anyway, we obviously got away 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.920 to live to tell the tale. But yeah, there are 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.240 moments down there where you're thinking, oh. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.880 And the people that you're with in Greenpeace very much 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:11.960 light minded people. 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.240 Oh. Absolutely. We had a crew of eighteen on my ship. Now, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.080 eighteen different nationalities. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.520 I should say, Okay, that's interesting, and. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.480 We spent a Christmas down there. It was actually fantastic. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.880 So we had a you know, in the quieter moments, 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.239 you know, we sort of shared all our different cultures 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.760 and people came to things with really different perspective, but 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.120 ultimately with a real conviction for making the planet better. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.040 Yeah. Oh, well done, because someone had to speak up. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.800 But yeah, putting yourself between the harpourn and the whale 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.400 in the Antarctic a little bit risky. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.560 I'd sort of seen that earlier in my life and thought, wow, 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.640 that's a gutsy thing to do, so defind myself in 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.640 that circumstance was a bit of a moment in life, 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.600 you think, oh yeah, here I go. Part of it 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.560 was actually also telling the story. There had not been 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.000 video footage of this sort of whale hunting process, and 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.080 we had cameras on board, professional photographers and the like. 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.000 So part of it is your two thousand kilometers south 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.080 of Australia at the end of the Earth, and part 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.000 of is capturing the pictures to tell the stories so 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.160 that people back home could say, actually, we don't agree 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:13.240 with this, we wanted to stop. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.760 Well, that's what it really came across. From those images, 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.399 the brutality of it, and the whales and the heartburns 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.760 and seeing them dragged up and cut up and different 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.600 things pretty gross. Besides that, what was it like down 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.639 there just from the environment looking at it must be 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.360 an experience within itself. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.199 It's an incredible part of the world. I mean, the 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:36.560 beauty of the icebergs, twenty four hours of daylight, penguins, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.359 pods of orcas swinging past, seeing the whales, all the 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.720 birds you get, all the albatris and the birds that 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.359 live in those parts of the world. It's an incredible 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.640 part of the planet, largely untouched by humans, but I've 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.639 actually been back last year on a climate change expedition, right, okay, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.600 and we're doing that. We were looking at the impact 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.280 of climate change, but even plastics. We did a trawl 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.520 for plastics in the water and finding plastics at that 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.280 far end of the ocean. Got that far, small pieces, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.400 small fragments, but the circulation of the world's oceans means 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.840 that as humans we have polluted every corner of this planet. 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:17.080 Yeah, that drifts down there. Okay. How long were you 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:18.280