1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Can I ask you what's the biology of the death 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: cap mushroom? So the death cap mushroom are the growing 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: part of this kind of fungus is fine threads that 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,159 Speaker 1: grow in the soil. They are there whether or not 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: the sporing body, which is the mushroom is present, so 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: that growing part in the soil. The technical term is 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: marcellium that is connected to the roots of living trees, 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: in particular members of the Oak family. 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: Today, in the trial of Aaron Pattison, a different type 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: of witness took to the stand. Tom May is a mycologist, 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: a mushroom expert, and he explained to the jury in 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 2: extensive detail the inner workings of death gaps, the toxic 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: fungus at the center of this case. He talked about 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: what makes them different from other mushrooms, where they can 15 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: be found, and the toxin that makes them so dangerous. 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: I'm Brook Greebert Craig, and this is the Mushroom Cook. 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: I'm joined as usual by my colleague reporter Laura Possella. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: Hi, Laura, it's great to be back here at our 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 3: makeshift podcast studio in more Well. 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: Yes it is. 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: So. 22 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: We're on week three, day ten of the trial. So 23 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: today the jury mainly heard evidence from mushroom expert doctor 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: Thomas May. It was his words, but not his voice. 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: At the start of the episode. In that little clip, 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: he was being questioned by Crown Prosecutor Nanette Rogers, Laura, 27 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: can you tell the listeners a bit more about doctor May? 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: Certainly so. He is an internationally recognized fungi specialist, so 29 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: he has a lot of knowledge about mushrooms. He's been 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 3: associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens for about thirty years 31 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 3: and has written books, academic papers, the works. 32 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: So at the beginning of his evidence, doctor May really 33 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: educated the jury about deakcat mushrooms and a slideshow was 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: shown to them. 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: Yes, if I'm being honest, today probably felt a little 36 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: bit like class for some of the jurors. There was 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: a lot of information they had to take in. He 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: began his evidence simply walking the jury through what are 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 3: death cap mushrooms. He explained that their scientific name is 40 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: Amanita felodes. The Amanita refers to a group of toxic 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 3: mushrooms and Filoides is the specific species, and he said 42 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 3: that they were accidentally introduced to Australia and they were 43 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 3: first reported in Melbourne in the nineteen seventies. Yeah, that's right. 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: Death cap mushrooms are not native to Australia, so they 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: did come over here through some sort of means. And 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: the jury were actually shown a map of the world 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: where death cap mushrooms can be found, and in the 48 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: Australian portion of the map you can see quite a 49 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: cluster around Victoria. 50 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: And for any of our listeners that are wondering what 51 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: do death cap mushrooms actually look like. 52 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: Tom May told the jurors that at least when it 53 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: comes to the color of the cap of the mushroom. 54 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: So that's the bit at the top. He said, death 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 3: caps are usually greenish or yellowish, but they could be 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: whitish or brownish, with or without white patches. He also 57 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: spoke about their lifespan, and he spoke about how death 58 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: caps have a symbiotic relationship with trees, particularly oak trees. 59 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 3: But instead of me trying and probably failing to explain 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: how death caps grow, I'll throw to doctor May. These 61 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: are his words, it's not his voice. 62 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: That mycellium sits in the soil over years, and from 63 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: time to time every year, usually under suitable conditions, it 64 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: produces a sporing body, which is the mushroom that we see. 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: Doctor May also spoke about how other mushrooms can look 66 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: like death caps. Like Laura, I'm going to leave it 67 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: to the expert as. 68 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Well, but there are certainly some mushrooms that occur in 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: Victoria that are quite similar in appearance to the death cap. 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: For example, the stubble rosegill. This shares the cup at 71 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: the base of the stem, but it differs from the 72 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: death cap because it grows in mulch and doesn't have 73 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: a ring on the stem, and it doesn't have the 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: yellow or green tones that are often present in the 75 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: death cap, and it has a pinkish brown spore print 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: in comparison to a white spore print. 77 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: Under cross examination by defense barrister Sophie Stafford, doctor May 78 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: spoke quite a bit about how challenging it can be 79 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: to identify mushrooms. The court heard that it was possible 80 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: for people to consume poisonous mushrooms having foraged them, believing 81 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 3: they were safe to eat. Doctor May also spoke about 82 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 3: how toxic mushrooms can sometimes grow alongside non toxic mushrooms, 83 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: making the identification process really difficult. He even went as 84 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: far to say that people who forage for mushrooms should 85 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 3: take part in some sort of apprenticeship so they can 86 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 3: be really across how to identify toxic mushrooms from non 87 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: toxic mushrooms. 88 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: So now moving on to more of doctor May's evidence. 89 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: The jury heard about a publicly accessible website called Eye Naturalist. 90 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 3: And our listeners may actually remember this website from one 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 3: of our first episodes where the prosecution set out their 92 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 3: case against Erin. They mentioned the eye Naturalist website and 93 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: how it was a place for members of the public 94 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 3: to post photos and observations of plants, animal and fungi. 95 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: The jury was shown photos of the website and doctor 96 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: May said there were more than four hundred and forty 97 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: thousand posts about mushrooms from Australia. 98 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: The jury was then shown a map of Victoria, which 99 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 3: we mentioned earlier in the episode. Across the map you 100 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 3: could see red dots which specified the areas where death 101 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 3: caps had been logged. Doctor May was then specifically brought 102 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: to the Gippsland region and he was asked how many 103 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 3: observations had been made in this area for death caps. 104 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 3: He said there were two, one in lock and one 105 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: in Outram and These posts were made in April and 106 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: May twenty twenty three, so about two months before the 107 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: fatal lunch. 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: And Lock and Outram are both small townships in South Gippsland, 109 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: which are both close to Aaron's house and lean gather. 110 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: Doctor May was then asked specifically about the log in 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: Outram and he told the jury that he was the 112 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: one who actually posted about those deathcap mushrooms. He explained 113 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: he was in Outram in May twenty twenty three to 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: make a presentation to a local community group about fungi, 115 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: but then during the day he went for a walk 116 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: and stumbled across these death caps along a street. He 117 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: pulled out his phone and as he's done previously, he 118 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: made a log about them. The jury were actually shown 119 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 3: a screenshot of his post and you could see that 120 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: his username on the website is Funky Tom and I'll 121 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 3: just make it clear, it's not fungi Tom. It is 122 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: Funky Tom with an ey. And on the website you 123 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: can see a map, some photos of the deathcap mushrooms 124 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: that doctor May took and a little description. 125 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: He told the. 126 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 3: Jury he provided a very precise pin for the location 127 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: of these mushrooms, including the latitude and the longitude. Now 128 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: our listeners may actually remember that during the prosecution opening, 129 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: Nenett Rodgers explained to the jury that it was the 130 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 3: prosecution case that Erin had traveled to both Locke and 131 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: Outram after these iron naturalist posts were logged. Nenett Rodgers 132 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: told the jury that the phone record suggests Erin was 133 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: herself in Lock on April twenty eight, so that's ten 134 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: days later. As for doctor May's post, which was made 135 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: on May twenty one, the prosecution case is that Erin 136 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: traveled to the same area that very next day, on 137 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: May twenty two, and stayed there for a period of time. 138 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 3: The jury is expected to later hear from an expert 139 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 3: in phone records who will further explain this evidence. 140 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: And doctor May's evidence will continue tomorrow. But before we 141 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: finish the episode, Laura, let's just touch upon other witnesses 142 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: that took the stand today, in particular more medical witnesses. 143 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: So this morning the jury heard from Laura Muldoon. She 144 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: was an emergency registrar at Monash Health in July twenty 145 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 3: twenty three and she treated Erin after she was transported 146 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: there from Leamngatha Hospital. Now this was on July thirty one, 147 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: so two days after the lunch, and doctor Muldoon told 148 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: the court that when she examined Erin, she noticed she 149 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: had chapped lips but otherwise looked very well. She said 150 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 3: she took her vital signs and took some blood that 151 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: was sent off for testing. The court heard that the 152 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 3: next day, on August one, those test results had come back, 153 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: but there was no signs of amanita poisoning, which is 154 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 3: the medical term for toxic mushroom poisoning, and by one 155 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: pm Erin was told that she was good to go home. 156 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: The jury also heard from Professor Ronda Stewart. She was 157 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: the Director of Infection Prevention and Public Health at Monash Health. 158 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: In July twenty twenty three. She told the court that 159 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: Aaron said that she used by the mushrooms from a 160 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: supermarket and dried mushrooms from an Asian food shop from 161 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: either Oakley or glen Waverley in her beef Wellington mill. 162 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: Professor Stewart asked Erin whether she had been foraging, and 163 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: Aaron replied no. 164 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: And doctor Muldoon also gave evidence about this. She said 165 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: she asked Erin the same question whether she had foraged 166 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 3: for wild mushrooms, and Erin also denied doing. 167 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,239 Speaker 2: This without a doubt. It's been a dense day of evidence. 168 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: I'm sure there'll be watercum all. 169 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: Stay tuned. Thanks Laura, see you tomorrow.