Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
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Speaker 1: Donald Trump versus Volodim Zelenski, an end to the US
Speaker 1: europe Alliance in support of Ukraine, warnings of World War
Speaker 1: III and Russian glee. That's the fast moving situation ripping
Speaker 1: through the war in Ukraine today. What Donald Trump says
Speaker 1: and what he means. Karon Stewart is the Australian's chief
Speaker 1: international correspondent, and it seems in recent days cam we're
Speaker 1: seeing a dramatic shift in the war in Ukraine or
Speaker 1: what could potentially be the peace process for the war
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. Let's go back a couple of days to
Speaker 1: a press conference Donald Trump gave at Mara Lago in Florida,
Speaker 1: where he said something that he said a few times before,
Speaker 1: that this war would have never started if he had
Speaker 1: been president at the time, and that he could have
Speaker 1: made a deal.
Speaker 2: I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would
Speaker 2: have given him almost all of the land everything, almost
Speaker 2: all of the land, and no people would have been killed,
Speaker 2: and no city would have been demolished, and one dorm
Speaker 2: would have been knocked down. But they chose not to
Speaker 2: do it that way.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's right.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that
Speaker 3: that would be right. Claire. I don't think that American
Speaker 3: position on Ukraine was in any way a factor for
Speaker 3: Putent invading Ukraine at the time that he did. I
Speaker 3: think that is Trump thumping his chest to a degree
Speaker 3: and just saying, you know, he has the ass of
Speaker 3: the deal. He has said a lot of things wouldn't
Speaker 3: have happened had he been president during Joe Biden's presidency.
Speaker 3: I think that's just a bit of a chairmanship on
Speaker 3: Trump's part.
Speaker 2: President Puttin and I would talk about Ukraine. It was
Speaker 2: the apple of his eye, I will tell you that.
Speaker 2: But he never there was never a chance of him
Speaker 2: going in and they told him you better not go in.
Speaker 2: Don't go in, don't go in, and he understood that,
Speaker 2: he understood it fully. But I'm only interested. I want
Speaker 2: to see if I can save maybe millions of lives.
Speaker 2: This could even end up in a World War three.
Speaker 2: I'm to be honest with you. You've been hearing now
Speaker 2: Europe said, well, I think we're going to go in,
Speaker 2: and we're going to go all of a sudden, you
Speaker 2: can end up in World War three over something that
Speaker 2: should have never happened. And you know it's a very
Speaker 2: sad situation. Yeah, listen, what.
Speaker 1: Do you think about that? Is there any suggestion that
Speaker 1: of a European states I'm going to have boots on
Speaker 1: the ground, or that it's going to escalate to a
Speaker 1: wider europe wide conflict?
Speaker 3: Again, I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that.
Speaker 3: I mean, the war is very very bogged down, has
Speaker 3: been bogged down on a very defined front line for
Speaker 3: really over a year now with only marginal changes to
Speaker 3: that front line. That Russians don't have the manpower or
Speaker 3: the resources to continue this war forever, but they have
Speaker 3: many more men and resources to continue it compared to Ukraine.
Speaker 3: There really is no suggestion. I think that this war
Speaker 3: would expand if it kept going the way that it is.
Speaker 1: The next thing that has happened is that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has taken to his platform Truth, Social and to X
Speaker 1: to make some quite remarkable claims about voladimes Alenski. He's
Speaker 1: a voice actor reading Donald Trump's words.
Speaker 4: Think of it a modestly successful comedian. Voladimir Zelenski chuck
Speaker 4: the United States of America into spending three hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty billion dollars to go into a war that couldn't
Speaker 4: be won, that never had to start, but a war
Speaker 4: that he without the US and Trump will never be
Speaker 4: able to settle.
Speaker 1: Trump said only he could successfully negotiate an end to
Speaker 1: the war with Russia.
Speaker 4: Biden never tried. Europe has failed to bring peace, and
Speaker 4: Zelensky probably wants to keep the gravy train going. I
Speaker 4: love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job. His
Speaker 4: country is shattered and millions have unnecessarily died, and so
Speaker 4: it continues.
Speaker 3: Europe has been quite shocked by the approach of the
Speaker 3: Trump administration has taken this week. It started with the
Speaker 3: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who said that there'd be no
Speaker 3: US troops stationed in Ukraine in any peace deal, that
Speaker 3: Ukraine could not expect to get its old borders back.
Speaker 3: In other words, the territory Russia has taken, and Trane
Speaker 3: could not expect to be a member of NATO after
Speaker 3: this war. Now only a matter of days later, as
Speaker 3: you say, Trump has almost confirmed this with an extraordinary
Speaker 3: attack on Zelensky, claiming that he is a dictator without elections,
Speaker 3: which is ironic given that Putin is exactly a dictator
Speaker 3: without elections, and you know, teasing him as being a
Speaker 3: modestly successful comedian.
Speaker 4: On top of this, Zelensky admits that half of the
Speaker 4: money we sent him is missing. He refuses to have elections,
Speaker 4: is very low in Ukrainian polls, and the only thing
Speaker 4: he was good at was playing Biden like a fiddle.
Speaker 4: A dictator without elections, Zelensky better move fast or he
Speaker 4: is not going to have a country left.
Speaker 3: And of course Ukraine was locked out of the first
Speaker 3: negotiating talks between Russia and the US in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 3: So he put all these factors together, and there is
Speaker 3: I think genuine lama amongst many European nations, and of
Speaker 3: course in Ukraine, that the way that the Trump administration
Speaker 3: is going about these negotiations is initially hugely favoring Russia.
Speaker 2: I don't want all these people killed anymore. I'm looking
Speaker 2: at people that are being killed, and they're Russian and
Speaker 2: Ukrainian people, but they're people, doesn't matter where they're from,
Speaker 2: on the whole planet. And I think I have the
Speaker 2: power to end this war.
Speaker 3: And what does that ultimately mean for any peace deal
Speaker 3: that is struck. Does it really mean that Putin gets
Speaker 3: punished for his invasion? Does he pay any price whatsoever
Speaker 3: for his behavior in relation to Ukraine? Or does he
Speaker 3: walk away with the twenty percent of Ukraine, no security
Speaker 3: guarantees for Ukraine in the future, and no real punishment
Speaker 3: for Putin. That certainly is the fear that has been
Speaker 3: engendered by the events this week.
Speaker 1: Ken One interpretation of the way Donald Trump is speaking
Speaker 1: is that this is a either the way he thinks
Speaker 1: that he genuinely does believe that Vladimir Zelenski is a
Speaker 1: thief and a liar and that he has ripped off
Speaker 1: the United States.
Speaker 2: But today I heard, oh, we weren't invaded, Well, you've
Speaker 2: been there for three years. You should have ended it
Speaker 2: three years, you should have never started and you could
Speaker 2: have made a deal.
Speaker 1: Or the other way to interpret it is that this
Speaker 1: is a big Donald Trump sound and fury, dramatic moment,
Speaker 1: and it's aimed at changing Vladimir Zelenski's expectations of what
Speaker 1: he can get from a peace process. That he would
Speaker 1: then be able to bring Zelenski to the table with
Speaker 1: an expectation that he's not going to get everything he wants.
Speaker 1: He's going to have to seed some territory. Which of
Speaker 1: those two things do you think is more likely?
Speaker 3: Look, I think Donald Trump is definitely playing the game
Speaker 3: of being the noisy deal maker to try to get
Speaker 3: both sides to fall into line and get into a
Speaker 3: position where a deal can actually be made. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's certainly telling Ukraine that it's unrealistic to have the
Speaker 3: expectations it does have in this war, and that is
Speaker 3: to have NATO membership and to reclaim the territory it's
Speaker 3: lost in this war. And I think that Trump is
Speaker 3: correct in saying that's unrealistic for Ukraine to do this.
Speaker 3: The thing, though, is that they've said this in public
Speaker 3: rather than as a negotiating tactic behind closed doors, and
Speaker 3: that is the area where a lot of people in
Speaker 3: Europe are saying, well, hold it that you've just given
Speaker 3: away these concessions publicly without even starting negotiations with Russia.
Speaker 3: So this only works from Trump's perspective if the Russians
Speaker 3: then give something in return. And what the Russians would
Speaker 3: have to give is an acceptance of some sort of
Speaker 3: security guarantee for Ukraine short of NATO membership. But that
Speaker 3: would satisfy Ukraine and would satisfy Europe, and there certainly
Speaker 3: is no early sign that this will be the case.
Speaker 3: The Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, in the talks in Saudi
Speaker 3: Arabia said he would not Russia would not agree to
Speaker 3: European troops being stationed in Ukraine as part of any
Speaker 3: peace agreement. Now that's the case, that's a non starter
Speaker 3: for Europe. So what we've seen already is Trump telling
Speaker 3: Ukraine that it's going to have to have a lot
Speaker 3: of concessions and not getting any concessions that we're aware
Speaker 3: of from Russia. And that's very concerning, I think.
Speaker 1: Coming up what Vladimir Putin and Vladimir is Lensky say.
Speaker 1: Vladimir's Zlensky responded to those claims overnight, saying Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has fallen for Russian disinformation.
Speaker 5: We have seen this disinformation. We understand that this is
Speaker 5: coming from Russia. We understand this, and we have evidence
Speaker 5: that these numbers are being discussed between America and Russia. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: President Trump, with who we have great respect as a leader.
Speaker 5: I'm the American people who support us, but unfortunately he
Speaker 5: lives in this disinformation space.
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin says nobody is excluding Ukraine, that it will
Speaker 1: be included in negotiations, and is called Zelensky hysterical. Finally
Speaker 1: came in the background to all of this is a
Speaker 1: dispute over Ukraine's rare earths. Ukraine has much of the
Speaker 1: world's sources of critical minerals that are important for things
Speaker 1: like semiconductors. US officials, according to American media, suggested to
Speaker 1: volodimme Zelenski that the US could be granted fifty percent
Speaker 1: ownership of those rare earths, and that's something that Zelenski declined.
Speaker 1: That's before this onslaught of criticism from Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: What is that, Well, it's interesting. Trump seems to be
Speaker 3: suggesting that Ukraine owes America a great financial favor because
Speaker 3: it's been supporting its military with billions and billions of
Speaker 3: dollars over the whole three year war, and Trump is
Speaker 3: more or less saying, look, you os four what we've
Speaker 3: given you. And so that attempted deal with the rare
Speaker 3: earths was a part of Trump basically trying to get
Speaker 3: something back for the United States for what it has
Speaker 3: given the Ukraine. But of course the Ukrainians and Zelenski said, well,
Speaker 3: we're not going to do that without security arrangements being
Speaker 3: attached to that deal. You know, if you want a
Speaker 3: good deal on rare earths, then you need to give
Speaker 3: us the security guarantees we need to proceed. And so
Speaker 3: that's why it's a non starter with Zelenski. But I
Speaker 3: think the fact that Trump even tried this with Ukraine
Speaker 3: just shows that he really sees that Ukraine owes America
Speaker 3: for the support that it's given it over the war.
Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. Thanks for
Speaker 1: joining us on the front. For all the best journalism
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