WEBVTT - Trump vs Zelensky

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, February twenty one. Anthony Albanezi and South Australian

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<v Speaker 1>Premier Peter Malinowskis have unveiled a two point four billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollar package to save why Our Steel Works. The vast

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<v Speaker 1>majority of that money will be used to upgrade the

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<v Speaker 1>steel mill so it can become a major producer of

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<v Speaker 1>green steel under a new owner. To find out what

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<v Speaker 1>that means, go to the Australian dot com dot au.

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump versus Volodim Zelenski, an end to the US

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<v Speaker 1>europe Alliance in support of Ukraine, warnings of World War

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<v Speaker 1>III and Russian glee. That's the fast moving situation ripping

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<v Speaker 1>through the war in Ukraine today. What Donald Trump says

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<v Speaker 1>and what he means. Karon Stewart is the Australian's chief

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<v Speaker 1>international correspondent, and it seems in recent days cam we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing a dramatic shift in the war in Ukraine or

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<v Speaker 1>what could potentially be the peace process for the war

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<v Speaker 1>in Ukraine. Let's go back a couple of days to

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<v Speaker 1>a press conference Donald Trump gave at Mara Lago in Florida,

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<v Speaker 1>where he said something that he said a few times before,

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<v Speaker 1>that this war would have never started if he had

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<v Speaker 1>been president at the time, and that he could have

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<v Speaker 1>made a deal.

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<v Speaker 2>I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would

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<v Speaker 2>have given him almost all of the land everything, almost

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<v Speaker 2>all of the land, and no people would have been killed,

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<v Speaker 2>and no city would have been demolished, and one dorm

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<v Speaker 2>would have been knocked down. But they chose not to

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<v Speaker 2>do it that way.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's right.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that

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<v Speaker 3>that would be right. Claire. I don't think that American

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<v Speaker 3>position on Ukraine was in any way a factor for

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<v Speaker 3>Putent invading Ukraine at the time that he did. I

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<v Speaker 3>think that is Trump thumping his chest to a degree

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<v Speaker 3>and just saying, you know, he has the ass of

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<v Speaker 3>the deal. He has said a lot of things wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>have happened had he been president during Joe Biden's presidency.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's just a bit of a chairmanship on

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<v Speaker 3>Trump's part.

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<v Speaker 2>President Puttin and I would talk about Ukraine. It was

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<v Speaker 2>the apple of his eye, I will tell you that.

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<v Speaker 2>But he never there was never a chance of him

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<v Speaker 2>going in and they told him you better not go in.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't go in, don't go in, and he understood that,

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<v Speaker 2>he understood it fully. But I'm only interested. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to see if I can save maybe millions of lives.

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<v Speaker 2>This could even end up in a World War three.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm to be honest with you. You've been hearing now

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<v Speaker 2>Europe said, well, I think we're going to go in,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're going to go all of a sudden, you

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<v Speaker 2>can end up in World War three over something that

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<v Speaker 2>should have never happened. And you know it's a very

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<v Speaker 2>sad situation. Yeah, listen, what.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think about that? Is there any suggestion that

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<v Speaker 1>of a European states I'm going to have boots on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground, or that it's going to escalate to a

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<v Speaker 1>wider europe wide conflict?

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<v Speaker 3>Again, I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, the war is very very bogged down, has

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<v Speaker 3>been bogged down on a very defined front line for

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<v Speaker 3>really over a year now with only marginal changes to

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<v Speaker 3>that front line. That Russians don't have the manpower or

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<v Speaker 3>the resources to continue this war forever, but they have

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<v Speaker 3>many more men and resources to continue it compared to Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 3>There really is no suggestion. I think that this war

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<v Speaker 3>would expand if it kept going the way that it is.

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<v Speaker 1>The next thing that has happened is that Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has taken to his platform Truth, Social and to X

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<v Speaker 1>to make some quite remarkable claims about voladimes Alenski. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a voice actor reading Donald Trump's words.

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<v Speaker 4>Think of it a modestly successful comedian. Voladimir Zelenski chuck

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<v Speaker 4>the United States of America into spending three hundred and

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<v Speaker 4>fifty billion dollars to go into a war that couldn't

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<v Speaker 4>be won, that never had to start, but a war

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<v Speaker 4>that he without the US and Trump will never be

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<v Speaker 4>able to settle.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump said only he could successfully negotiate an end to

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<v Speaker 1>the war with Russia.

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<v Speaker 4>Biden never tried. Europe has failed to bring peace, and

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<v Speaker 4>Zelensky probably wants to keep the gravy train going. I

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<v Speaker 4>love Ukraine, but Zelensky has done a terrible job. His

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<v Speaker 4>country is shattered and millions have unnecessarily died, and so

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<v Speaker 4>it continues.

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<v Speaker 3>Europe has been quite shocked by the approach of the

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<v Speaker 3>Trump administration has taken this week. It started with the

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<v Speaker 3>Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who said that there'd be no

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<v Speaker 3>US troops stationed in Ukraine in any peace deal, that

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<v Speaker 3>Ukraine could not expect to get its old borders back.

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<v Speaker 3>In other words, the territory Russia has taken, and Trane

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<v Speaker 3>could not expect to be a member of NATO after

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<v Speaker 3>this war. Now only a matter of days later, as

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<v Speaker 3>you say, Trump has almost confirmed this with an extraordinary

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<v Speaker 3>attack on Zelensky, claiming that he is a dictator without elections,

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<v Speaker 3>which is ironic given that Putin is exactly a dictator

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<v Speaker 3>without elections, and you know, teasing him as being a

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<v Speaker 3>modestly successful comedian.

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<v Speaker 4>On top of this, Zelensky admits that half of the

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<v Speaker 4>money we sent him is missing. He refuses to have elections,

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<v Speaker 4>is very low in Ukrainian polls, and the only thing

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<v Speaker 4>he was good at was playing Biden like a fiddle.

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<v Speaker 4>A dictator without elections, Zelensky better move fast or he

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<v Speaker 4>is not going to have a country left.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course Ukraine was locked out of the first

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<v Speaker 3>negotiating talks between Russia and the US in Saudi Arabia.

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<v Speaker 3>So he put all these factors together, and there is

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<v Speaker 3>I think genuine lama amongst many European nations, and of

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<v Speaker 3>course in Ukraine, that the way that the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 3>is going about these negotiations is initially hugely favoring Russia.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want all these people killed anymore. I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>at people that are being killed, and they're Russian and

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<v Speaker 2>Ukrainian people, but they're people, doesn't matter where they're from,

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<v Speaker 2>on the whole planet. And I think I have the

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<v Speaker 2>power to end this war.

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<v Speaker 3>And what does that ultimately mean for any peace deal

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<v Speaker 3>that is struck. Does it really mean that Putin gets

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<v Speaker 3>punished for his invasion? Does he pay any price whatsoever

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<v Speaker 3>for his behavior in relation to Ukraine? Or does he

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<v Speaker 3>walk away with the twenty percent of Ukraine, no security

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<v Speaker 3>guarantees for Ukraine in the future, and no real punishment

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<v Speaker 3>for Putin. That certainly is the fear that has been

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<v Speaker 3>engendered by the events this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Ken One interpretation of the way Donald Trump is speaking

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<v Speaker 1>is that this is a either the way he thinks

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<v Speaker 1>that he genuinely does believe that Vladimir Zelenski is a

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<v Speaker 1>thief and a liar and that he has ripped off

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<v Speaker 1>the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>But today I heard, oh, we weren't invaded, Well, you've

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<v Speaker 2>been there for three years. You should have ended it

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<v Speaker 2>three years, you should have never started and you could

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<v Speaker 2>have made a deal.

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<v Speaker 1>Or the other way to interpret it is that this

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<v Speaker 1>is a big Donald Trump sound and fury, dramatic moment,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's aimed at changing Vladimir Zelenski's expectations of what

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<v Speaker 1>he can get from a peace process. That he would

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<v Speaker 1>then be able to bring Zelenski to the table with

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<v Speaker 1>an expectation that he's not going to get everything he wants.

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<v Speaker 1>He's going to have to seed some territory. Which of

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<v Speaker 1>those two things do you think is more likely?

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I think Donald Trump is definitely playing the game

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<v Speaker 3>of being the noisy deal maker to try to get

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<v Speaker 3>both sides to fall into line and get into a

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<v Speaker 3>position where a deal can actually be made. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>he's certainly telling Ukraine that it's unrealistic to have the

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<v Speaker 3>expectations it does have in this war, and that is

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<v Speaker 3>to have NATO membership and to reclaim the territory it's

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<v Speaker 3>lost in this war. And I think that Trump is

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<v Speaker 3>correct in saying that's unrealistic for Ukraine to do this.

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<v Speaker 3>The thing, though, is that they've said this in public

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<v Speaker 3>rather than as a negotiating tactic behind closed doors, and

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<v Speaker 3>that is the area where a lot of people in

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<v Speaker 3>Europe are saying, well, hold it that you've just given

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<v Speaker 3>away these concessions publicly without even starting negotiations with Russia.

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<v Speaker 3>So this only works from Trump's perspective if the Russians

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<v Speaker 3>then give something in return. And what the Russians would

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<v Speaker 3>have to give is an acceptance of some sort of

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<v Speaker 3>security guarantee for Ukraine short of NATO membership. But that

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<v Speaker 3>would satisfy Ukraine and would satisfy Europe, and there certainly

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<v Speaker 3>is no early sign that this will be the case.

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<v Speaker 3>The Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, in the talks in Saudi

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<v Speaker 3>Arabia said he would not Russia would not agree to

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<v Speaker 3>European troops being stationed in Ukraine as part of any

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<v Speaker 3>peace agreement. Now that's the case, that's a non starter

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<v Speaker 3>for Europe. So what we've seen already is Trump telling

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<v Speaker 3>Ukraine that it's going to have to have a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of concessions and not getting any concessions that we're aware

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<v Speaker 3>of from Russia. And that's very concerning, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up what Vladimir Putin and Vladimir is Lensky say.

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<v Speaker 1>Vladimir's Zlensky responded to those claims overnight, saying Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has fallen for Russian disinformation.

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<v Speaker 5>We have seen this disinformation. We understand that this is

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<v Speaker 5>coming from Russia. We understand this, and we have evidence

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<v Speaker 5>that these numbers are being discussed between America and Russia. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 5>President Trump, with who we have great respect as a leader.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm the American people who support us, but unfortunately he

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<v Speaker 5>lives in this disinformation space.

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<v Speaker 1>Vladimir Putin says nobody is excluding Ukraine, that it will

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<v Speaker 1>be included in negotiations, and is called Zelensky hysterical. Finally

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<v Speaker 1>came in the background to all of this is a

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<v Speaker 1>dispute over Ukraine's rare earths. Ukraine has much of the

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<v Speaker 1>world's sources of critical minerals that are important for things

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<v Speaker 1>like semiconductors. US officials, according to American media, suggested to

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<v Speaker 1>volodimme Zelenski that the US could be granted fifty percent

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<v Speaker 1>ownership of those rare earths, and that's something that Zelenski declined.

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<v Speaker 1>That's before this onslaught of criticism from Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>What is that, Well, it's interesting. Trump seems to be

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<v Speaker 3>suggesting that Ukraine owes America a great financial favor because

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<v Speaker 3>it's been supporting its military with billions and billions of

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<v Speaker 3>dollars over the whole three year war, and Trump is

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<v Speaker 3>more or less saying, look, you os four what we've

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<v Speaker 3>given you. And so that attempted deal with the rare

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<v Speaker 3>earths was a part of Trump basically trying to get

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<v Speaker 3>something back for the United States for what it has

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<v Speaker 3>given the Ukraine. But of course the Ukrainians and Zelenski said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we're not going to do that without security arrangements being

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<v Speaker 3>attached to that deal. You know, if you want a

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<v Speaker 3>good deal on rare earths, then you need to give

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<v Speaker 3>us the security guarantees we need to proceed. And so

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<v Speaker 3>that's why it's a non starter with Zelenski. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think the fact that Trump even tried this with Ukraine

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<v Speaker 3>just shows that he really sees that Ukraine owes America

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<v Speaker 3>for the support that it's given it over the war.

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<v Speaker 1>Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us on the front. For all the best journalism

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<v Speaker 1>from Australia and the world, join our subscribers at the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com