WEBVTT - #2062 Happiness Is Not Our Natural State - Emma Slade 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.200 I'll get a team. It's you project Craig Anthony Harper's here. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.360 Who else would be here but the bloke who hosts 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.360 the show. I've just met someone new. I just have 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.440 a brand new friend who's been doing a hard cell. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.840 I will say on Bhutan, and it seems I have 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.040 to go there, maybe move there, maybe become celibate, maybe 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.160 change my life, get rid of all my stuff and 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.760 just become monastic. That seems unlikely, but maybe that's going 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:27.720 to happen. Hi, Emma Slade, how are you? 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.560 Oh? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm waiting to see. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.199 Yeah, you've got the right hairstyle for the monastic life, right. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.920 Yeah, well it's it's been pointed out that I'm not 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.320 particularly her shoot around the head region, so thanks for that. No, 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.519 you're right, I don't know. Look, my listeners would say 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.199 to you, Emma, he probably swears too much to be 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.560 any common but I can. I'm sure I can back 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.720 off on that. I'm sure that. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.320 Yeah, so you think about of silence is not the 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:58.959 way you're going to go in your life, is it? 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:00.640 Or yeah? 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.120 Gosh, I literally talk for a living. Imagine that I 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.720 don't have any other skills. I'm essentially an idiot that 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.880 talks for a job. So imagine that that'd be Yeah, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.880 that's like telling a tradesman or a carpenter he can't 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.120 build anything, but good luck making money. 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.080 Well, maybe we're just leaving happily there in Australia then 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.240 with the podcast, and I'll just carry on here and 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.280 being in an atset. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.399 Yeah, well you do you, I do me, and maybe 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.080 who knows, I might have a visit and some kind 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.520 of existential kind of cathartic life changing moment. You never know, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.520 you never know, right, I've. 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.400 Heard it can happen, Greg, I've heard it can happen. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.800 Yeah, well you would have heard because you are in 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.120 tune with whatever there is to be in tune with. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.320 You are in tune. Do you think that happens where 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.000 people go, I'm just going to head over to this 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.560 place and have a bit of a look around, and 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.520 they have no intention of any big kind of spiritual 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.160 moment or awakening or cathartic kind of episode, and it 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.000 almost it finds them rather than the other way around. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.640 Yeah, I think it's definitely possible. I think it's definitely possible. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.160 I think it's about the right time, the right moment, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.800 the right place, and yeah, I think it can definitely happen, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.720 not just in Bhutan, but I think other places too. 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.200 And I guess not just the right geographic place, but mental, emotional, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.120 spiritual place too. Right, we're speaking in metaphors, not just 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.919 like it can probably even happen in Melbourne. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.920 Folks who know I reckon, I reckon, I reckon it 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.560 definitely can you find those people, Craig. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.720 I'm out. I'm on the hunt after this. If anyone 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.640 needs something, it's me so many issues. How much time 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:49.400 have you got, Emma? 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.720 Oh, you don't know time enough to talk to you. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.840 Craig is absolutely fine, as you know, I just finished 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.280 my massive four hundred and three kilometer walk across your time, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.440 so I am now sitting down a lot because I 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.160 kind of need to slightly recover from it. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.079 So you got me at just the right moment. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.320 Well, we really appreciate you. Rather than me bang on 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.639 about a dot point list of your bio or achievements, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.400 could you whatever you want to share with my listeners, 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.760 just kind of introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.760 and then we'll dive in from there, if you would 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.239 be so gracious, that'd be great. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.040 Oh yeah, sure, okay, So hello everybody. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.480 My name is Emma Slade or you can call me 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.639 Ani Permadeci and I'm born in England, but I spent 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.600 a lot of time in Bhutan, where I became a 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.480 monastic thirteen years ago. So if you can't see me, 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.000 you have to imagine somebody with no hair and red 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.360 and orange robes. And I left actually a very high 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:48.760 powered corporate job. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:50.800 Slowly. 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.080 I left it slowly to become a monastic eventually in Bhutan. 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.120 And I set up a charity for special needs children 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.080 in Bhutan ten years ago called Opening your Heart to Beutan. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.080 I wrote a book called Set Free, which people seem 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:06.600 to enjoy. 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:12.320 And yeah, and I'm just an all round very enthusiastic 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.840 let's make the world a better place type human. 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.040 Yeah you are. I love that I've done. Like I've 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.760 had a bit of a look at your ted X 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.680 talk and read some stuff and you you are quite inspirational, 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.599 although I'm sure you don't love the accolades. But tell 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.800 me about was there a was there a particular genesis 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.760 or moment in time for leaving the high powered world 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.520 of you know, the corporate space and getting out of 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.680 the suits and getting into the robes and getting rid 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.240 of the hair and getting rid of pretty much everything, 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.200 Like was there something that was there an existential crisis? 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.640 Was there an event or was it a slow burn? 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.720 I think it was a combination. I think. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.640 I you know, I had this turning point in my life. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.000 Many people have a turning point, I think, and turning 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.520 points usually involve some difficulty, right, Actually, turning points often 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.560 have that quality to them. So I happened to be 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:14.760 end up being held hostage at gunpoint in a hotel 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.960 room in Jakarta, and that had obviously a huge impact 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:26.320 on my life and also my feeling about having survived 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.440 and maybe what I wanted to do with my life. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.320 But I think turning. 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:36.200 Points, I mean, I don't think it's an inevitable that 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.280 if you have a difficult experience that it will inevitably 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.640 change your life. I think it was like a door 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.240 opened to kind of think more clearly about what I 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:47.800 wanted to do. 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.680 But I could have carried on. 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:49.880 You know. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.520 I think I think it is a combination of turning 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:57.400 points and then steps after that, And then I guess 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.000 I had another turning point on my very first vision. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.080 It to Bhutan in two thousand and eleven when I 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.960 met a monk here, and so I think those two 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.800 turning points feel quite connected to me. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:11.520 It feels like. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.320 One was very tough and made me question everything, and 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.120 one was very amazing and made me feel very. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:21.000 Clear about everything. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.400 So I feel like there's actually two turning points, but 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.200 they were quite quite long years apart. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.400 I feel like, and this is just my perspective, so 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.640 i'd love yours like I think a lot about the 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.640 human experience, obviously with my research with the brain and 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.960 the mind and human behavior and who we are and 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:41.880 how we are and why I think the way I think, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.000 and where my stories come from. And you know how 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.040 I see the world, Like there's the world and then 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.320 there's my view of the world, and they're different things. 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.000 That's you and I are in the same conversation, but 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.520 we're not in the same experience because you don't live 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.120 in my head or thoughts or ideas or beliefs, and 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.000 I don't live in yours. I feel like it's it's 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.360 a lot of us. And this might sound judgmental, I 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.279 don't mean it too, because I think it was me 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.280 for a lot of my life and probably is still 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.160 at times we tend to do life on almost like 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.240 an unconscious auto pilot, where we just kind of get 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.280 up and do what we did yesterday, even though it 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:23.360 wasn't particularly fulfilling or joyful or meaningful, or it's just 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.240 like we're in this almost this cognitive groove or this 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.880 behavioral groove, and we don't kind of think, what do 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.920 I want the next one, two, five, ten years of 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.320 my life to look? Like? Like what is my what 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:38.120 is my purpose? 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:38.280 Like? 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.240 Do I have a purpose? What does that mean? Is 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.840 am I meant to be doing the thing that I'm doing? 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.560 Not in a self loathing way or a self critical way, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:50.080 but in a almost like a self awareness way, like 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.720 I'll shut up after this. But one of my stories 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.560 is I built this quite successful business when I was 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.160 pretty young, and then by the time I was thirty, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.760 I had a bunch of businesses in a of employees 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.760 and a bunch of money. And in the middle of 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.200 all of that, I'm like, Oh, this doesn't feel that 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.400 amazing at all, and not that maken dough and not 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.440 that having employees and building a brand is bad. Of course, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.480 it's like, ah, because I think I kind of had 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:19.360 this idea that I probably never really examined that when 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.400 I have all this external stuff, then all this internal 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.280 stuff will be great didn't work. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:32.360 Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd say a couple of 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:32.920 things there. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.480 Firstly, you know, so I've just spent quite a lot 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.920 of time in rural Bhutan with people who live as 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.080 subsistence farmers, right, and they definitely have to get up 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.440 every day and do the same thing, and their lives 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.240 are harsh. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.160 And you know, this is a subsistence line start. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.040 So I would first of all say that if you 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.000 have the good fortune to be in a situation where 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.400 you have the chance to think again about those getting 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.040 up doing the same thing, where you have a choice 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.920 to change that, I think it's wonderful. But for many 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:14.960 people in the world living very subsistence lifestyle, they don't 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.400 actually have that choice, to be frank, because they need 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.720 to put the potatoes in the earth and then harvest 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.559 those potatoes. And you know, so I think first of all, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.680 we should remember that even if we're having this conversation, 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.120 we're already pretty lucky to be able to have that conversation. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.319 Right, Yeah, yeah, true, Yeah, So. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:38.000 Let's just remember that for you know, for a minute. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.600 But obviously, you know, external things are very helpful. It's 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.040 really helpful to have a central eating system, it's really 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.360 helpful to have nice dentist to go to. And I 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.800 don't think we should start to loathe the external things. Yes, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.280 they support us, they help us, they keep us safe. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.439 It's like Maslow's hierarchy of human need. So I'm sure 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.160 you'd have studied that in your time, right, So we 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.959 have to have those basic needs fulfilled. And if they 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.480 are fulfilled, then yes, maybe we get the opportunity to 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.679 think more deeply about what it is to be human 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:19.400 and how happiness arises. But we should I think it's 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.920 dangerous to take in a sort of two extreme position 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.520 where we imagine that external things don't matter. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.480 That it doesn't matter if you don't have a house 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:28.320 or you know what I mean. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.400 But it's just a limit to how far those things 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.720 can give us permanent, unchanging happiness. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.319 They just can't. But that's kind of quite handy. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.920 One. I like the fact that I have a car 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.200 and a house. They're quite handy, and beds are good 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.320 and air conditioning in Australia air conditioning is good, and 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.920 also food is nice, so yeah, I guess. I guess 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:02.480 I think like that. Maybe what I meant was some 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.760 of us grow up in a kind of a collective 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.079 cultural kind of thing that success is about things, you know, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.320 happiness is about things. It's about your stuff, what you have, 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.960 what you earn, what you own, what you drive, where 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.160 you live, what people think of you, what you look like. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.960 How many Instagram followers you have, I don't know, if 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:24.240 there's Instagram and Bhutan. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:29.280 You know, Instagram is huge and biton it's huge. Yeah. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.040 Yeah, So I guess it's just more that maybe more 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.640 awareness than judgment, you know, where it's like, yeah, that's great, 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.200 you've got all that stuff. That's good. But also and 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.120 I think for me it was that, you know, but 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.240 also yeah. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.559 I mean I think it's always really you know, actually 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.880 most humans actually understand this stuff. I think when you 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.880 really talk to somebody properly and they understand this stuff. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.880 Everybody knows when they're on their deathbed, yeah, that whatever 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.000 car they have is not going to help them. And 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.079 they also know that it that won't be the thing 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.320 that it's hard to leave, right. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.120 They know that. Yes, So I think it's often I. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.679 Know it may be sound a bit more bid, But 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.480 it's if you really want to get to the heart 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.480 of the matter, just think of what's going to matter 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.000 to you at the point of dying, and you can 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:16.560 pretty much work things out from there. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.160 Yeah. Yeah, So what is the day to day for 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.680 Emma the Buddhist? None? The day? Like? What do you? 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.040 What do you? What do you do? 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:27.400 Like? 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:28.840 How does your life work? 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.200 Yeah? Could you keep up with it? Craig, I think 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.480 that's the question. I'm thinking. Maybe you probably could from 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.760 the time I'd been spending. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.280 With you, but I mean I definitely couldn't you overestimate me? 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:41.920 Lower your expectations? 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.800 Well, I guess, you know, if we really think of 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.120 the question. For you know, one thing I think about 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.960 a lot. Is it better that I remain in the world, 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.680 very active and helping in the world, you know, with 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.080 actions and fundraising. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.079 And speaking to people, et cetera. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:05.040 Or is it better to go into solitary retreat and meditate. 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.240 Is that the better way as a monastic? 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:07.440 Not? 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.360 I think usually people don't have. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.480 That dilemma, But as a monastic, that's our basic dilemma. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.000 Do we stay helping in the world or are we 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.679 more helpful to the world if we're in meditation retreat 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.800 or some combination of those two. So basically my life 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.080 is some combination of those two. That's the kind of 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:31.280 contract I've drawn with things. Right, So I've been you know, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.280 as you know, I've been doing this incredible walk across 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.800 butan not that it should be called a walk, it 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:40.000 should be called a massive climb across Darlp Mountains. Just 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:45.040 raised a lot of money for special needs children. But 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.880 now from February, I'll be in a three month solitary 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:48.520 retreat in the. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:49.280 Mountains of Bhutan. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:50.120 Wow. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.439 So you know, my life can be either very active 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.720 in the world helping a lot, or it can be 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:04.400 very disciplined in strict meditation retreat. Because I'm unusual for 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.640 a monastic, because I'm quite you know, I'm like a 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.600 bit like I'm on rocket fuel, so I can do 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.520 a lot in the world. I think, I don't mind 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.640 speaking to people, and I'm mind organizing stuff. I don't 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.640 mind getting stuff done in the world. So you know, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.760 I had those two sides to my personality, I think, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.600 because so that's that's my world. So day to day, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.640 if I'm in the world, it will be I could 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.600 be translating stuff helping to translate things from Tibetan. I 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.400 could be helping children with special needs. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:35.960 I could be talking to somebody like you. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:38.600 If I'm in a retreat, then I'll be up at 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.120 four in the morning and I'll be meditating and praying 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.360 for around eleven hours a day, all seated, seeing no 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.400 one and just training my mind. 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.840 Wow, eleven hours a day for three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.840 Tell me, Okay, tell me about this. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.400 That stopped you in your tracks. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.840 No, no, no, feless All right, right, well done, well done, 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:12.880 em I'll tell you what for a none? Goodness, I'm 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.480 not your normal No, no, you are not. No, I've 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.360 met none like you. See what I did there, I've 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.600 met like you. Tell me about the mind. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.280 I'm you know, I've just spent six years studying a 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.200 part of the mind, that human behavior thinking, and I'm 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.360 fascinated to tell me about how you explore your own mind, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.080 how you understand the self that's in the middle of 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.800 you know you, you know, what does that even mean? 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.360 How do you explore your mind? 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:42.720 Like? 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.120 Yeah, what is that? What does that look like? 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.880 And it's difficult because the minute we call it the mind, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:51.360 we make it an object. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.360 Yes, like a fixed. 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.360 Object, right, So just I mean we have to use 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.960 the word to mind, but in a way that's already problematic. 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:08.040 There's just a moment by moment, a rising of thought 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:09.240 moment by moment. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.320 But the question of whether it comes. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.920 From something that we can call a mind that already 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.080 that's a tricky tricky thing. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.640 I think if we're going to bring things back to 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:30.040 sort of basic Buddhist principle, we would say that there's 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.040 a part of your being which is already. 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.920 How can you say, clear and awakened and without any confusion, 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.480 but around it, if you like, if we imagine it 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.680 like that, which is a bit crude, but anyway, but 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:49.800 around this, there's like layers which cover it, and those 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.880 layers are selfishness or self clinging. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.400 Greed and anger. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.200 And for most of our life we interact with those 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.880 layers and they pull and they push us. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.159 Right, that's kind of what a human life is like 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:07.800 from a Buddh's point of view. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.680 We believe, with study and meditation and development of more compassion, etc. 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:19.439 That we can break through those layers and discover a 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.760 part of our being which is like, how can you 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.440 say it's a part of our being that could become awakened, 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:28.320 could become a Buddha. 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.400 And so that's. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.960 A mental activity which is no longer under the pull 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.840 and push of anger, greed, and self clinging, because most 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.920 of the time, all of our mental activity is in that, Yeah, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:44.920 in those areas. 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.960 Yeah, I don't know if this question is going to 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.480 make sense, But tell me about the knowing and the 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:58.000 understanding and the wisdom that we have that we've never 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:03.160 been taught. Yeah, So that's like, yeah, that's there. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:04.080 That's definitely there. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.479 It's definitely there, and I believe it's there for all 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.680 of us to discover for ourselves. And I think once 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.160 you have some kind of glimpse of that, then you're 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.160 already you've already stepped out from a lot of things 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:25.679 which otherwise will like there'll be like the tail wagging 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.760 the dog, right, yes. 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:29.560 Yeah, but. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.159 Whether we call that knowing and that wisdom, the mind 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:35.600 becomes complicated. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.400 I think it's but there is that wisdom there for sure. Definitely. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.679 I feel like the mind is. Yeah, Like it's like 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.959 when we get any word, but we'll go with this 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.520 four letter word M I N D. Right, it means 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.080 different things to different people. Absolutely, it's like love what 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.560 is love? It means different things to different people. It's like, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.520 well that's stressful. What is you know? It's like there 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.280 are so many and because we have our own version 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.520 of what love is, or what the mind is, or 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.879 what knowledge is, or what good or bad is or 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:14.600 you know, and these are all subjective interpretations by different individuals. Yeah, 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.800 it's really hard to find any kind of universal alignment. 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.160 But you know, and then and then, you know, I think, 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:27.080 almost ironically, the mind is the thing that gets in 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:33.000 the way. You know, overthinking can get in the way, Like, well, 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:37.120 maybe that wisdom, that insight, that genius that lives through 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.879 me and doesn't come from me, Maybe that's got nothing 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.240 to do with my mind. Maybe that's just me being 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.040 able to access something that isn't me. But I don't know. 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.399 Like I was having a chat just before with a 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.639 friend of mine who speaks on stage. We both speak 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.600 on stage a lot. I do a lot of you know, 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:04.760 public and corporate speaking, and there are times when you know, 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.920 I'll do a three hour workshop and I start not often, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.919 by the way, but it's usually somewhere between okay and 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.160 pretty good. But there have been a few times where 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:16.760 I look up in three hours have gone and it 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.160 feels like twenty minutes and I'm like, where did that go? 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.720 It's like, you know, time is a constant, but our 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.280 experience of time is a variable, right, and so how 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.640 time seems to me? And then I've spoken for three hours. 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.639 But it's almost like that that what came out or 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.960 what transpired was almost in spite of me, not because 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.199 of me. It's like there was some flow state that, 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.240 you know, I don't know. I just feel like there's 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.480 a wisdom and an intelligence and a love and I 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:53.400 don't know what the right word is, but that's accessible 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.040 to us if we can get to that point. 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:01.000 Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. You know, I think 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.360 the flow stage is very interesting, and I do hear 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:09.400 about it from, you know, from people, so I think 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.199 it's it. There's a lot of links between Buddhist ideas 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.600 of meditation and things like this flow stage. When we're 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.840 in retreat, actually time goes very very slowly. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:22.320 Yeah wow. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.760 So mostly in daily life, our life, you just got 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.199 oh well today went like that, Oh my god, Like 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:29.479 people are like, it's Christmas? 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:30.919 How can they be Christmas? I feel like it was 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:31.879 just or whatever. 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:37.440 Right, So in retreat, time goes incredibly slowly, which I 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.840 found is kind of interesting in terms of your this, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.679 you know, our perception of our perception of time. I 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.520