WEBVTT - The Trial: Location, location, location 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:04.680 A retired pharmacist and poisons expert, Christine McKenzie, went on 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.160 a walk in the Gippsland town of Locke. She had 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.000 gone to visit her daughter, but while she was there 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.720 she took a stroll at the local oval to see 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.840 what interesting fungi she could find. She told the court today, we're. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.959 On the recreation oval, the sports ground at Locke. There 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.960 it's surrounded by oak trees. I observed some amanita feloides 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:28.840 around the roots or around underneath one of the oak 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.200 trees on the western side. I believe of the oval. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.680 Seeing the danger of a potentially toxic mushroom colony, she 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.159 plucked as many as she could find and as she 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.720 explained today in court, she took photos of them. She 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.440 then posted the phottos to a citizen website courti Naturalist, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.280 a resource that asks its users to share their observations 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:50.360 from the natural world. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.640 I was fascinated by how few fungi have been really 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.360 identified in Australia, and I just find them personally beautiful 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.000 and it's a lovely way to go for a bushward 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.040 with an expert and you suddenly become much more aware 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.920 of the variety of fungi that there are, so I'm 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.080 not a forager. I don't go for a walk to 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.320 find them to eat. It's just pure fascination. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.280 What became of that post and how the prosecution alleges 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.400 Aaron Patterson later used it was at the center of 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:23.600 today's testimony. I'm Brook Creebert Craig, and this is the 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.720 mushroom Cook. It's the start of week four of Aaron 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.679 Patterson's murder trial, and I'm back with my colleague, court 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:31.880 reporter Laura Placella. 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.400 Hi, Laura, Hey, it's great to be back. We are 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.280 more than halfway through, it seems. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.720 Yes, we are. As you heard at the top of 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.559 the episode. A former poisons information specialist was the first 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.640 person to give evidence today. Christine McKenzie told the jury 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.720 she spotted deathcat mushrooms while she was on a walk 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.480 with her husband and grandson in Locke. 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.320 That's right, and as you mentioned, she is an expert 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.720 and she worked for seventeen years at the Victorian Poisons 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.880 in five Mation Center. While working at the center, Miss 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.680 mackenzie told the court that she developed quite a fascination 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.600 with fungi and she did a lot of research herself 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.720 and went on a lot of bushwalks, and it was 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.200 on this day on April eighteen, twenty twenty three, where 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.400 she wasn't so much on a bushwalk, but just a 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.760 nice family walk with her grandson and their dog, where 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.320 she spotted these deathcat mushrooms growing just to the side 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.080 of an oval in Locke. She told the jury she 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.160 wanted to remove the mushrooms because she knew how toxic 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.240 they were, so she described taking out and I quote 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.360 the dog pooh bag she had with her and putting 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.399 the mushrooms into the bag. But before she did that, 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.359 she made sure to take those photos that she could 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:48.320 then reference later. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.359 Yes, she then posted those photos to Iron Naturalists, which 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.519 is a citizen website, which we've heard before when my 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.680 cologist Tom May was giving his evidence last week. 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.120 She was really concers earned that people walking their dogs 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.519 or children who were playing near the oval would accidentally 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.000 consume the mushrooms, or people who were foraging would mistakenly 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.360 believe them to be edible mushrooms and pick them. She 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.359 also told the court that she was worried that fresh 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.239 death cap mushrooms may grow in that same place over 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.560 the coming weeks, So this was the reason she posted 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.560 their location to our naturalist to make sure anyone that 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.360 was using that website knew that there were death caps 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.200 growing in that area. The photos she posted to our 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:35.400 Naturalists were shown to the jury today and Miss mackenzie 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.560 took the opportunity to describe what the death cap mushrooms 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.920 looked like. These are her words, it's not her voice. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.760 So this is, if I may say so myself, quite 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.720 a nice image of a death cap mushroom. It shows, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.160 first of all, the cap which is white with a 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.360 bit of a yellow olive green tinge. You can't quite 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.560 see in that one, but in a subsequent photo the 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.320 gills underneath are white. The stuff or stem is sitting 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.080 in quite a bulb bulbus structure and there's just hanging 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.680 down underneath the gills there's the remnants of a veil 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.240 where it was connected when it was popping through the ground. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.400 Now, Miss Mackenzie's evidence really set the jury up for 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.560 the next witness, who was digital forensic expert Dr Matthew Serell. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.000 The court heard he runs a consulting company that relates 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.400 to digital forensics and has actually been involved in more 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.839 than four hundred criminal matters, giving evidence for both the 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.680 prosecution and the defense. He told the court that his 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:37.080 area of expertise was around mobile phone network data. Last week, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.720 our listeners may remember that the jury got a lesson 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.360 in deathcat mushrooms and all things related. But this week 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.400 it's fair to say that they started getting a lesson 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.800 in telecommunications networks. It was some pretty dense evidence today, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.200 but doctor Sorel walked the jury through it. He started 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.440 by describing how a base station, which is pretty much 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.480 a phone tower, provides a connection between a mobile phone 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.279 and a network through antennas. He said they could be 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.960 located on top of a tall commercial building, a grain silo, 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.400 or even a large water tank. He then walked the 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.080 jury through all the different types of records that telephone 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:19.239 companies keep. There were really basic records, he said, called 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.559 call charge records, which contain the details around the phone 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.760 calls you make, the texts you send, and the data 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.239 you use. But then there was also some high level 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.279 records called event based monitoring records, and the shorthand for 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.440 this was EBMs. I won't bore our listeners with the details, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.400 but he explained how these types of records were a 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.400 lot more rich with information, especially relating to timestamps. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.120 Doctor Sorel told the jury he had been provided four 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.520 and a half years of core charge records from January 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.200 twenty nineteen to August twenty twenty three relating to a 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.000 phone belonging to error. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.719 That's right, So these are those basic records I just 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.039 referred to. But doctor Cerel also told the court that 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.719 he was given some specific EBM records relating to a 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:15.280 few dates in April and May twenty twenty three concerning 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.520 the Lock and Outram areas, which are two townships near 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:20.279 Lee Andngatha. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.719 Let's begin with Lock April twenty eight, twenty twenty three. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.200 Before we dive into doctor Cerel's evidence, Let's just remember 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:34.479 that miss McKenzie's iinatchalist post was made on April eighteen, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.240 twenty twenty three, and she observed those death caps in Lock. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.520 Doctor Cerel told the court today that it was his 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.600 opinion that the records from Erin's phone indicated that there 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.640 was a possible visit to the Loch area on April 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.640 twenty eight, from about nine o'clock in the morning to 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.440 about ten o'clock. He said that when you looked at 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.799 those EBM records, the mobile phone connected to Bay Station 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.640 at Lock and Lock South at nine oh eight, nine 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.920 oh nine, and again at ten oh one. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.800 So the court also heard that Aaron's phone was in 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:11.520 Lock on May twenty two. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.320 Yes, that's right. So doctor Serrel then walked the jury 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:20.400 through the fact that on May twenty two, this phone 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.080 made repeated connections to some of these base stations in Lock, 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.360 and on this occasion the connections were happening every five minutes, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.240 and he told the court that this was consistent with 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.720 the phone being relatively stationary in this area, which indicates 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:36.720 a possible visit. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.440 So we've mentioned May twenty two already, where else was 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:42.800 Erin's phone located? 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:43.200 Laura? 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:45.840 To answer this question, we might just take a step 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.440 back and remind our listeners of some of the evidence 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:53.360 from last week. The jury heard from mycologist or fungi specialist, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.760 doctor Tom May, who was asked about an I natchalist 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.960 post he made on May twenty one, twenty twenty five. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.440 He was in the Outram area going for a walk 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.760 and he told the court he observed death caps along 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.320 a street called Nielson Street. He then took some photos 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.320 of the death cap mushrooms and posted them to our naturalist, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.040 just like miss Mackenzie did exactly. The court then heard 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.800 today from doctor Serraul, who said it was his opinion 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.760 that again this mobile phone belonging to Erin made a 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.679 possible visit to northern Outram, that is where Nielson Street 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.920 is located, one day later after doctor May's post on 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.120 May twenty two. He said this visit was no earlier 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.760 than eleven twenty four am and no later than eleven 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.400 forty nine am, using the same sort of language he 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.240 referred to when talking about the possible visit to Locke, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.600 He said that the mobile phone was relatively stationary in 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.600 the area until about eleven forty nine due to its 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.400 repeated connections to one of the nearby base stations before 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.240 it returned tillian Gatha, which is where Eron lives at midday. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.400 We did refer to this May twenty two date earlier. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.720 So it appears from the records that doctor Sorell has 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.160 analyzed that Erin's phone was first in Lock on the 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.640 morning of May twenty two, before it traveled to Outram 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:17.520 later that morning. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.560 So, in summary, it's the prosecution case that Aaron traveled 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.480 to Locke and Outrim in April and May twenty twenty three, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.400 in the days after these deathcap sightings were posted on 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.120 the I Naturalist website. That's right, but it's really important 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.480 to mention at this stage that doctor Sorel will return 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.559 to the witness box tomorrow and will be cross examined 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.480 by Erin's defense team, where they will have a chance 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.520 to question doctor Sorel about these records and the conclusions 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.720 he can draw from them. We'll talk more about that 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.680 after he gives evidence tomorrow. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:51.679 See then Brook. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.160 Thanks Laura, and remember go to the mushroomcook dot com 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.520 dot au to stay up to date with all the 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:58.880 latest in this case.