1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: A retired pharmacist and poisons expert, Christine McKenzie, went on 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: a walk in the Gippsland town of Locke. She had 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: gone to visit her daughter, but while she was there 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: she took a stroll at the local oval to see 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: what interesting fungi she could find. She told the court today, we're. 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 2: On the recreation oval, the sports ground at Locke. There 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: it's surrounded by oak trees. I observed some amanita feloides 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: around the roots or around underneath one of the oak 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: trees on the western side. I believe of the oval. 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Seeing the danger of a potentially toxic mushroom colony, she 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: plucked as many as she could find and as she 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: explained today in court, she took photos of them. She 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: then posted the phottos to a citizen website courti Naturalist, 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: a resource that asks its users to share their observations 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: from the natural world. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: I was fascinated by how few fungi have been really 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: identified in Australia, and I just find them personally beautiful 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: and it's a lovely way to go for a bushward 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: with an expert and you suddenly become much more aware 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: of the variety of fungi that there are, so I'm 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: not a forager. I don't go for a walk to 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 2: find them to eat. It's just pure fascination. 23 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: What became of that post and how the prosecution alleges 24 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson later used it was at the center of 25 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: today's testimony. I'm Brook Creebert Craig, and this is the 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: mushroom Cook. It's the start of week four of Aaron 27 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: Patterson's murder trial, and I'm back with my colleague, court 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: reporter Laura Placella. 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: Hi, Laura, Hey, it's great to be back. We are 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 3: more than halfway through, it seems. 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: Yes, we are. As you heard at the top of 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 1: the episode. A former poisons information specialist was the first 33 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: person to give evidence today. Christine McKenzie told the jury 34 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: she spotted deathcat mushrooms while she was on a walk 35 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: with her husband and grandson in Locke. 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: That's right, and as you mentioned, she is an expert 37 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: and she worked for seventeen years at the Victorian Poisons 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 3: in five Mation Center. While working at the center, Miss 39 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: mackenzie told the court that she developed quite a fascination 40 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: with fungi and she did a lot of research herself 41 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: and went on a lot of bushwalks, and it was 42 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: on this day on April eighteen, twenty twenty three, where 43 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 3: she wasn't so much on a bushwalk, but just a 44 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: nice family walk with her grandson and their dog, where 45 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: she spotted these deathcat mushrooms growing just to the side 46 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: of an oval in Locke. She told the jury she 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: wanted to remove the mushrooms because she knew how toxic 48 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: they were, so she described taking out and I quote 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: the dog pooh bag she had with her and putting 50 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 3: the mushrooms into the bag. But before she did that, 51 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 3: she made sure to take those photos that she could 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: then reference later. 53 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: Yes, she then posted those photos to Iron Naturalists, which 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: is a citizen website, which we've heard before when my 55 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: cologist Tom May was giving his evidence last week. 56 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: She was really concers earned that people walking their dogs 57 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 3: or children who were playing near the oval would accidentally 58 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: consume the mushrooms, or people who were foraging would mistakenly 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 3: believe them to be edible mushrooms and pick them. She 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 3: also told the court that she was worried that fresh 61 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 3: death cap mushrooms may grow in that same place over 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: the coming weeks, So this was the reason she posted 63 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: their location to our naturalist to make sure anyone that 64 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 3: was using that website knew that there were death caps 65 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: growing in that area. The photos she posted to our 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: Naturalists were shown to the jury today and Miss mackenzie 67 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: took the opportunity to describe what the death cap mushrooms 68 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: looked like. These are her words, it's not her voice. 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: So this is, if I may say so myself, quite 70 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: a nice image of a death cap mushroom. It shows, 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: first of all, the cap which is white with a 72 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: bit of a yellow olive green tinge. You can't quite 73 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: see in that one, but in a subsequent photo the 74 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: gills underneath are white. The stuff or stem is sitting 75 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: in quite a bulb bulbus structure and there's just hanging 76 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: down underneath the gills there's the remnants of a veil 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: where it was connected when it was popping through the ground. 78 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: Now, Miss Mackenzie's evidence really set the jury up for 79 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: the next witness, who was digital forensic expert Dr Matthew Serell. 80 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: The court heard he runs a consulting company that relates 81 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: to digital forensics and has actually been involved in more 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: than four hundred criminal matters, giving evidence for both the 83 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: prosecution and the defense. He told the court that his 84 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 3: area of expertise was around mobile phone network data. Last week, 85 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 3: our listeners may remember that the jury got a lesson 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: in deathcat mushrooms and all things related. But this week 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: it's fair to say that they started getting a lesson 88 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: in telecommunications networks. It was some pretty dense evidence today, 89 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: but doctor Sorel walked the jury through it. He started 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: by describing how a base station, which is pretty much 91 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: a phone tower, provides a connection between a mobile phone 92 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: and a network through antennas. He said they could be 93 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: located on top of a tall commercial building, a grain silo, 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: or even a large water tank. He then walked the 95 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: jury through all the different types of records that telephone 96 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 3: companies keep. There were really basic records, he said, called 97 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 3: call charge records, which contain the details around the phone 98 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: calls you make, the texts you send, and the data 99 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 3: you use. But then there was also some high level 100 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 3: records called event based monitoring records, and the shorthand for 101 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 3: this was EBMs. I won't bore our listeners with the details, 102 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: but he explained how these types of records were a 103 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: lot more rich with information, especially relating to timestamps. 104 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Sorel told the jury he had been provided four 105 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: and a half years of core charge records from January 106 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to August twenty twenty three relating to a 107 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: phone belonging to error. 108 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: That's right, So these are those basic records I just 109 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 3: referred to. But doctor Cerel also told the court that 110 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 3: he was given some specific EBM records relating to a 111 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 3: few dates in April and May twenty twenty three concerning 112 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: the Lock and Outram areas, which are two townships near 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: Lee Andngatha. 114 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: Let's begin with Lock April twenty eight, twenty twenty three. 115 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: Before we dive into doctor Cerel's evidence, Let's just remember 116 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 3: that miss McKenzie's iinatchalist post was made on April eighteen, 117 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, and she observed those death caps in Lock. 118 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: Doctor Cerel told the court today that it was his 119 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 3: opinion that the records from Erin's phone indicated that there 120 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 3: was a possible visit to the Loch area on April 121 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: twenty eight, from about nine o'clock in the morning to 122 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: about ten o'clock. He said that when you looked at 123 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 3: those EBM records, the mobile phone connected to Bay Station 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: at Lock and Lock South at nine oh eight, nine 125 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: oh nine, and again at ten oh one. 126 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: So the court also heard that Aaron's phone was in 127 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: Lock on May twenty two. 128 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. So doctor Serrel then walked the jury 129 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: through the fact that on May twenty two, this phone 130 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 3: made repeated connections to some of these base stations in Lock, 131 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: and on this occasion the connections were happening every five minutes, 132 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: and he told the court that this was consistent with 133 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: the phone being relatively stationary in this area, which indicates 134 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: a possible visit. 135 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: So we've mentioned May twenty two already, where else was 136 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: Erin's phone located? 137 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: Laura? 138 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: To answer this question, we might just take a step 139 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: back and remind our listeners of some of the evidence 140 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: from last week. The jury heard from mycologist or fungi specialist, 141 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: doctor Tom May, who was asked about an I natchalist 142 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: post he made on May twenty one, twenty twenty five. 143 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 3: He was in the Outram area going for a walk 144 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: and he told the court he observed death caps along 145 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: a street called Nielson Street. He then took some photos 146 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: of the death cap mushrooms and posted them to our naturalist, 147 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: just like miss Mackenzie did exactly. The court then heard 148 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: today from doctor Serraul, who said it was his opinion 149 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 3: that again this mobile phone belonging to Erin made a 150 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 3: possible visit to northern Outram, that is where Nielson Street 151 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: is located, one day later after doctor May's post on 152 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: May twenty two. He said this visit was no earlier 153 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: than eleven twenty four am and no later than eleven 154 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 3: forty nine am, using the same sort of language he 155 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: referred to when talking about the possible visit to Locke, 156 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: He said that the mobile phone was relatively stationary in 157 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: the area until about eleven forty nine due to its 158 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 3: repeated connections to one of the nearby base stations before 159 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: it returned tillian Gatha, which is where Eron lives at midday. 160 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: We did refer to this May twenty two date earlier. 161 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: So it appears from the records that doctor Sorell has 162 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 3: analyzed that Erin's phone was first in Lock on the 163 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 3: morning of May twenty two, before it traveled to Outram 164 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: later that morning. 165 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: So, in summary, it's the prosecution case that Aaron traveled 166 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: to Locke and Outrim in April and May twenty twenty three, 167 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: in the days after these deathcap sightings were posted on 168 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: the I Naturalist website. That's right, but it's really important 169 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: to mention at this stage that doctor Sorel will return 170 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: to the witness box tomorrow and will be cross examined 171 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: by Erin's defense team, where they will have a chance 172 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: to question doctor Sorel about these records and the conclusions 173 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: he can draw from them. We'll talk more about that 174 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: after he gives evidence tomorrow. 175 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 3: See then Brook. 176 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: Thanks Laura, and remember go to the mushroomcook dot com 177 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: dot au to stay up to date with all the 178 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: latest in this case.