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Speaker 1: Hey guys, I've just interviewed Charlie Urker. Charlie Verker was

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Speaker 1: not the self proclaimed but the community proclaimed hero who

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Speaker 1: saved the life of Leah at Kujibach after she'd been

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Speaker 1: attacked by a great white shark. It's only very recent

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Speaker 1: and we've had a lot of sight into great white

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Speaker 1: sharks since then around the soub Observer in particular. What

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Speaker 1: I wanted to say to you, if you don't mind,

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Speaker 1: someone's trying to raise money for Lee because she's going

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Speaker 1: to have to undertake a lot of medical treatment, and

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Speaker 1: she has a gofund me page. The go fundme page link.

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Speaker 1: Details will be in the show notes and that will

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Speaker 1: also be in the link in my Instagram bio. But like,

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Speaker 1: if you can help, please do it. And it's a

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Speaker 1: great episode. This guy is a real AUSI era Charlie Urker.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: Mate, Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Hey Firling after you know, now you've had a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks to think about all this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm feeling good. It has been a busy past

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks, but I've started to settle back into

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Speaker 2: my old routine. I like to keep pretty busy normally,

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Speaker 2: so the extra kind of load on my schedule managing

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Speaker 2: I guess the extra profile for the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 2: and also just the challenge of such a confining situation

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Speaker 2: has been tricky. But I'm really pleased with how I've

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Speaker 2: been going. I guess I was just nervous about how

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Speaker 2: Lear is and the news that's come out recently of

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Speaker 2: being out of her coma temporarily was pretty exciting for me.

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Speaker 1: Could you take me through what happened?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So I was out training for Molokai

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Speaker 2: Toua Who, the race I have come up in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: So what is that?

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Speaker 2: Just?

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Speaker 1: What is that for?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So that's the Insurance Pro and paddle Board World Championships.

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Speaker 2: So it's a race between Molokai and Awa Who. It's

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Speaker 2: a fifty two kilometer race that's intended to be downwind

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Speaker 2: on board on a board, so yeah, using just your arms.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the unlimited category, which basically means whatever size

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Speaker 2: board you want, and it's an eighteen foot board with

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Speaker 2: a rudder and a tiller and you're just trying to

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Speaker 2: catch big ocean open swells.

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Speaker 1: And you're up on your knees or you're on your guts.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time, on my knees, but your legs

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Speaker 2: get tired, so you on your guts.

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Speaker 1: You cover a little bit and you're paddling and you're paddling,

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Speaker 1: and you're paddling for how many kilometers?

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Speaker 2: Fifty two?

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Speaker 1: How long does that take?

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Speaker 2: It's a very conditions dependent race. Yeah, the fastest time

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Speaker 2: would be low four hours, but if you get conditions

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Speaker 2: that are poor, it could very easily take six hours. WHOA,

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Speaker 2: I'll get you see. Do you ever see sharks out there?

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Speaker 2: I've never seen one during the race. I saw one

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Speaker 2: when I was training the lead up in Hawaii lasts

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Speaker 2: or two years ago, just alongside ofwa Who I saw

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Speaker 2: probably the biggest shark I've ever seen, actually was about

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Speaker 2: a fort to five meter tiger that was just right

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Speaker 2: alongside my board, and I remember seeing the head and

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Speaker 2: the width of the head because the tigers have that

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Speaker 2: really square jaw, and it was right next to me

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Speaker 2: and the tail wasn't even at front of my board

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Speaker 2: and the size of my board and made me go, all,

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Speaker 2: this thing is a seriously big animal to make it

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Speaker 2: a quicker definitely, definitely. The funny thing was my dad

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Speaker 2: was out there for that one as well, on his

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Speaker 2: ski padling behind me and was shouting out as a

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Speaker 2: shark up there, Charlie turn Away. And the year before

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Speaker 2: I'd had a big fright on that exact same paddle

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Speaker 2: of what turned out to just be a palm from

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a shark, and I had a

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Speaker 2: little panic and I was just going, Dad, no, it's

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Speaker 2: another palm from in the water, and he was right

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Speaker 2: in that sample. So it definitely made me paddle quickly afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you were training for the Molokai event, which

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Speaker 1: means you paddle from two Quji or from Qudji to somewhere.

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Speaker 2: So my plan for that day was to a three

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Speaker 2: hour paddle because it's such a conditions dependent race. I

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Speaker 2: just paddle on time. And I always had headed out

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Speaker 2: to Marubra from Kuji, from Bondai, from Bondi going in

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Speaker 2: out of the bays, and was on my way back

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Speaker 2: to Bondi, so you go all just.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you kick off a bond I. Let's call it

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Speaker 1: North Bondo. Yeah, so you go out from North Bonda

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Speaker 1: and then you just just just go down the coastline.

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Speaker 2: So when it's pretty flat, conditions I like to cut

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Speaker 2: the not cut the corners, and just really follow the

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Speaker 2: coastline to get as much distance as I can follow

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Speaker 2: the beach. So yeah, I go out and I go

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Speaker 2: straight across towards the icebergs out around a headland. And

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Speaker 2: what that also means is when I'm paddling with other

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Speaker 2: people that are different speeds, if I'm fast, then they

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Speaker 2: can cut corners to catch up to me. If I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to do it with a squad of ski paddlers

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Speaker 2: that are faster than me, if they hug the headland,

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Speaker 2: I can cut corners to catch up to them. And

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Speaker 2: it's just a little bit nicer being close to people.

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Speaker 2: And if something does go wrong, you're not as far

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Speaker 2: from home if you need to get back.

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Speaker 1: So on this occasion, you went past Tamma, then Bronti,

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Speaker 1: then Cloveli, and you ended up a gudgie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'd already actually made it all the way

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Speaker 2: to Aruba, so in and out all the bays all

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Speaker 2: to be coming back. I was on the way back

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Speaker 2: through Aji. And when you do those paddles, I'm on

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Speaker 2: normally the most frightened. When I'm out around the back

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Speaker 2: of the cliffs, and paddling into Cujie. Of all beaches,

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Speaker 2: you can paddle so close to the shore without there

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Speaker 2: being waves to interrupt you. And it's a really busy beach.

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Speaker 2: There's always lots of people in the water. It's the

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Speaker 2: part where I normally feel the safe is something like

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Speaker 2: I'm around civilization again. Yeah, yeah, And so it was

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Speaker 2: not where I expected it to be such a frightening

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Speaker 2: event to happen.

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Speaker 1: So you come into Gujie, what happens.

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Speaker 2: I was probably eighty meters off shore, just towards the

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Speaker 2: south end, and had just started going past a couple

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Speaker 2: of swimmers, and about one hundred meters ahead of me

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Speaker 2: there was a group of three women and one of

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Speaker 2: them started screaming shark. I actually found out that she

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Speaker 2: she felt the shark before she saw it, and said

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Speaker 2: it felt like a wetsuit material and she thought it

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Speaker 2: was a dolphin, looked around and saw that it was

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Speaker 2: a shark, and that was when she started screaming. And

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Speaker 2: initially you hear people scream shark every now and then,

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Speaker 2: and most of the time it's not a shark. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it'll be kids trying to scare their mates, or just

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Speaker 2: someone reacted too quickly to a dolphin. But the length

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Speaker 2: of time and the panic of this made me realize

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Speaker 2: this wasn't a false alarm, and the people around me,

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Speaker 2: I would have assumed, just swam straight to the beach

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Speaker 2: because we went that far from shore, but they became

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Speaker 2: pretty frightened as well and just wanted to be out

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Speaker 2: of the water as fasts they could, and the nearest

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Speaker 2: option for that was me. So at that point I

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Speaker 2: kind of had to go, guys, you got to swim in.

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Speaker 2: I can't lay on my board. I've got to go

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Speaker 2: check these other people, all right, that are actually close.

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Speaker 1: You actually said that to them.

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Speaker 2: Ah. I don't remember the exact wording, but there would

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Speaker 2: have been gestures and words that meant that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Get out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's such hazy details for the stuff that wasn't important.

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Speaker 2: And I guess in that moment, could you see lard

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Speaker 2: or anything like that from not at this point. So

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Speaker 2: the shark actually hadn't grabbed onto Leo at this point.

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Speaker 1: Right, and the other herd two friends hot footed it

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Speaker 1: back into the beach. They everyone just kind of had

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Speaker 1: their heads up out of the water.

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Speaker 2: Once shark was going. They just didn't want to be swimming.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to just be out of the water. And

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Speaker 2: that was one of the things that surprised me is

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Speaker 2: that I thought if that happened, I'd get me out

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Speaker 2: of the water as quickly as I can the fasclad

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Speaker 2: that is, put my head down and start swimming. But

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Speaker 2: the way that the shark came in, there was a

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Speaker 2: group of three of them. The girl that initially saw

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Speaker 2: the shark and the other girl that wasn't Leah were friends,

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Speaker 2: but they didn't know Lea that just happened to me nearby,

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Speaker 2: and the shark was kind of in the middle of

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Speaker 2: that group, so the person that was furthest out couldn't

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Speaker 2: just swim straight over the shark to get back to shore.

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Speaker 2: And as I started paddling closer, I could see it underwater.

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Speaker 2: It was a really clear water. I couldn't see the

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Speaker 2: details still quite far away, but I could see the

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Speaker 2: shadow of it going these things pretty solid animal, but

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Speaker 2: it looked like it was moving almost in inquisitively. It

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Speaker 2: was really slow and cautious movements, and in my experience

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Speaker 2: with sharks, I just thought that would mean that it

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Speaker 2: would figure out that they weren't seals and they weren't

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Speaker 2: food and just swim off and leave them alone.

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Speaker 1: Is that what happens to them? Is it in your age?

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Speaker 2: I like to think that. Yeah. Whenever I've seen a

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Speaker 2: shark and it's been moving pretty slowly, it's never really

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Speaker 2: been a problem. There's been times and I've been outsurfing

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Speaker 2: and it's just been such a nice day where the

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Speaker 2: sharks are making themselves so seen and there was enough

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Speaker 2: people in the water and they were small that we

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Speaker 2: thought there was two cruising the line up and you

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Speaker 2: could just kind of follow them the whole time and

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Speaker 2: go these things aren't interested in hunting us right now.

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Speaker 2: They're just swimming around in their own environment. And I

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Speaker 2: think that was a false sense of security. I definitely

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Speaker 2: haven't had enough exposure to sharks to know their behaviors

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Speaker 2: inside and out. No, Yeah, that was the That was

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Speaker 2: just the attitude I had that kind of got me

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Speaker 2: paddling over towards them. I thought that I was going

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Speaker 2: to go over there, the shark was going to realize

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Speaker 2: they're not food. I would get them on my board

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Speaker 2: and there'd be a little bit panic and everyone would

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Speaker 2: get to the beach just fine.

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Speaker 1: So when you got there. What happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I was about halfway across, I started seeing

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Speaker 2: Lea getting pushed around and see about fifty meters away.

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Speaker 2: At this point I couldn't It's all happening underwater, so

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Speaker 2: you can't really see the exact details of what happened.

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Speaker 2: But it started off pretty slow. And I've been out

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Speaker 2: in the water spending a lot of times on the

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Speaker 2: water training for Raulate this, or doing my training for

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Speaker 2: Iron Man, or just surfing. The Ocean's my favorite place

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Speaker 2: to be in the world, and so spending that much

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Speaker 2: time in the water, you spend a lot of time

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Speaker 2: thinking about scenarios of sharks, what you do if there

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Speaker 2: was an incident like this in the water, And I

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Speaker 2: kind of always thought if I was on a big

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Speaker 2: board like this, that I'd be able to paddle in

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Speaker 2: and the size of my board would probably frighten the

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Speaker 2: shark and scare it off. And so I was paddling

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Speaker 2: over with that kind of intention, still pretty scared, still

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Speaker 2: pretty hesitant, and because realistically all they wanted to do

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Speaker 2: was paddle into the beach as well. And I eventually

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Speaker 2: saw the shark come out of the water. I saw

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Speaker 2: the dorsal fin, saw the back, saw the tail, and

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Speaker 2: I saw the size of it. It felt like I

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Speaker 2: was looking up at the animal whilst being on top

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Speaker 2: of a board and just went, this thing is not

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Speaker 2: going to be scared of me. And that my entire

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Speaker 2: attitude on the situation changed where I felt pretty helpless

219
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Speaker 2: and just went, I don't know what I can do

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Speaker 2: to help here.

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Speaker 1: How far away were you at that point.

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Speaker 2: I want to say about twenty meters.

223
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Speaker 1: And what compelled you to keep going.

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Speaker 2: At that point? I didn't keep going. Actually, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a scenario where I paddled in and separated the sharp

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Speaker 2: from Leah that I think that wouldn't have ended very well.

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Speaker 2: Just after seeing that the size of this animal, I

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Speaker 2: was too scared to do that. I'm not afraid of

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Speaker 2: admitting that. I guess so at that point, when I

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Speaker 2: felt pretty helpless, I started looking around for another people.

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Speaker 2: Another person that was on the paddle with me, his

232
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Speaker 2: dad was on a jet ski, and I thought the

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Speaker 2: best option at this point would be a powercraft to

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Speaker 2: come in and scare this thing off, be able to

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Speaker 2: grab lea out of the water.

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Speaker 1: Yeap you had there was a jet ski in your vicinity?

237
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were on the people they were escorting

238
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Speaker 2: on smaller boards than me, so they were a bit

239
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Speaker 2: slower and they were too far away to be helped.

240
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Speaker 2: So that my next option was just get the attention

241
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Speaker 2: of the lifeguards, and so I just started singling to

242
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Speaker 2: show a big Code X to try and let them

243
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Speaker 2: know that there was stuff going down in the water.

244
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Speaker 1: There is a signal to see.

245
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually, upon reflection and wondering whether I used

246
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 2: the wrong signal because we were meant to chuck two

247
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Speaker 2: arms up in the air to evacuate, do the emergency

248
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Speaker 2: alarm and evacuate, the Code X is kind of submerged

249
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Speaker 2: swim and missing or just basically serious emergency. I think

250
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,840
Speaker 2: it still worked with the intended intended effect. But yeah,

251
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Speaker 2: it felt like so long before the shark line was

252
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Speaker 2: going off, before the beach really knew it was happening.

253
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Speaker 2: I have hazy details about how many people around the

254
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Speaker 2: situation at that point because I was pretty focused on

255
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 2: the actual attack. But I just wanted to get the

256
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Speaker 2: attention of the lifeguards so that they could get clear

257
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Speaker 2: the water and then maybe get powercraft out to help us.

258
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Speaker 2: The robot ACKI or somewhere that yeah, that was that

259
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 2: was my hope, I guess, yeah, And what happened so

260
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 2: after that it got a lot more violent and the.

261
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Speaker 1: Bashing, you mean, the movement of her.

262
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that's all I can really speak on is

263
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,400
Speaker 2: that she was just whether it was pushing, whether it

264
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,079
Speaker 2: was getting dragged around. Obviously she was definitely getting bitten

265
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Speaker 2: at parts of that. I just don't know the exact

266
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Speaker 2: details around that. And that was when the water started

267
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Speaker 2: to get a bit dirty with blood.

268
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Speaker 1: Was she screaming?

269
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was lots of screaming, and its again

270
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Speaker 2: it's hazy details like in that moment what the sound

271
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Speaker 2: was wasn't important to me, and so I feel like

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Speaker 2: there also might have been a pits of silence where

273
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Speaker 2: even she just didn't really comprehend what was going on. Ah.

274
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Speaker 2: But yeah, once the water got quite bloody, she actually

275
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 2: got taken under and I couldn't see her anymore, and

276
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Speaker 2: I just went, well, now there's definitely nothing I can

277
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Speaker 2: do at my way at this stage, about the same

278
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 2: distance fifteen to twenty meters, just kind of pretty close

279
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Speaker 2: fovering between that area of like, all I want to

280
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Speaker 2: do is go to the beach. But I felt compelled

281
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: and felt like I had a bit of responsibility of

282
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 2: if I go into the beach the only person on

283
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 2: a board out here, she's on her own. There's nothing

284
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 2: anyone can do. And that's what kept me, kept me there,

285
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Speaker 2: and luckily she popped up and the shark had let

286
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Speaker 2: her go at that point.

287
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Speaker 1: Why do you think the sharks let her go? I mean,

288
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,959
Speaker 1: I know it's apeculator, but what is it?

289
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 2: So my initial reflection, and I think what probably guided

290
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240
Speaker 2: my decision making at the time was the opinion that

291
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,959
Speaker 2: had figured out that she wasn't a seal right and

292
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 2: moved on. However, in since the incident, I've had conversations

293
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 2: with the shark experts trying to essentially log the data

294
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 2: of the shark attack that talked about how great whites

295
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 2: it's really typical for them to if you use a

296
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,960
Speaker 2: ceiling as an example, going and bite off the fins

297
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 2: so they're immobile and then just inflict as much damage

298
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,679
Speaker 2: as possible so that they bleed out and then can

299
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,959
Speaker 2: come in with the least amount of risk to them,

300
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 2: because if a shark injures its eyes or its nose,

301
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,560
Speaker 2: or its gills or and of its senses, it's it's

302
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,079
Speaker 2: not going to survive. It's dependent on those. So it's

303
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 2: common for it to swim away and then come back

304
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 2: once it's safe for them to actually eat.

305
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 1: Who says, once it's demobilize you, it comes back and

306
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: just like fees on your carcass.

307
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that they're clever basically, is what I what

308
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 2: I learned from that. And yeah, after we were all

309
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,559
Speaker 2: on the beach and my daddy kind of figured out

310
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,160
Speaker 2: that we were all safe, he went back out on

311
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 2: the jet ski to try and find the shark, and

312
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 2: he said he saw it in the water, and once

313
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 2: the sharks saw the jet ski, it just did a

314
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 2: nine degree turn, came up and looked at it because

315
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 2: it was looking for its its food.

316
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,720
Speaker 1: Wow, looking for her. Believe that's that's where it just

317
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:44,959
Speaker 1: takes it.

318
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 2: But put it this way, it wasn't scared of a

319
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 2: jet ski.

320
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, Wow, the jest skis aren't small their and

321
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: their bulky too and noisy and yeah, lots of vibrations

322
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: coming from a jet ski. So did you how when

323
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 1: you saw the shark let go? We went over to her.

324
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,959
Speaker 1: There was obviously blood and color in the water. What

325
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:04,959
Speaker 1: did you do?

326
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was when I paddled over closer to her,

327
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 2: and she was looseid enough to respond to instructions and

328
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 2: say that's cool, that kind of thing. And I got

329
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,199
Speaker 2: her to kind of swim a couple of meters towards

330
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 2: me whilst I was paddling towards her, because I didn't

331
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 2: want to paddle into the middle of this pool of

332
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 2: blood where I couldn't see what was around me and

333
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 2: see if the shark was still there, if it was

334
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 2: going to come at me. Maybe that if I could

335
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 2: see where the shark was and if it decided to

336
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 2: come at the board, I could put myself the board

337
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 2: between myself and the shark. Yeah, And I got her

338
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 2: to grab onto the nose of my board and just

339
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 2: started paddling backwards to the beach because I'm not on

340
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 2: a rescue craft. I'm want a really long slender board,

341
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 2: has a drink bottle cage in front of me, it's

342
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 2: got a tiller. It takes me thirty seconds to turn

343
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 2: this thing around with just me. So I thought, with

344
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 2: being this close to the beach, with the fast way

345
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 2: would just be to drag go back to the shore.

346
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 2: And you didn't get.

347
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 1: Up on the board, you just let it. You said,

348
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: hold onto the nose of the boy.

349
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 2: I just said, hold on the nose that was the

350
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 2: closest part to her at that point, and just started

351
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,880
Speaker 2: dragging her backwards. And she wasn't strong enough to hold

352
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 2: on her nose, so I had to paddle back up

353
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: to her again and get it to hold onto the

354
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 2: drink bottle cage. It's just something easy to grip onto,

355
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 2: and that worked for a little while, but she again

356
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,280
Speaker 2: became too weak toldal to that, so I ended up

357
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,600
Speaker 2: having to paddle up to her and just grab her

358
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 2: by the arm and just hold her next to me

359
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 2: while I was paddling back with one arm. So yeah,

360
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 2: that was a pretty flawn ordeal. She actually ended up

361
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 2: losing conscious before we hit the beach. For consciousness before

362
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 2: we hit the beach, and so I was realistically holding

363
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 2: her head out of the water and just going up.

364
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 2: Just got to get it to the sand and then

365
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 2: hopefully there'll be people there to help.

366
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: At what point did the life service come out and

367
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: did they come out and give your assistance.

368
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it's impossible for me to know the timeline.

369
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 2: I never felt when I was in the water. Her

370
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 2: feeling of where is everyone? Why am I the only

371
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 2: one here? I was more thinking it's stupid than I'm here.

372
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 2: I should be on the beach safe. However, yeah, I

373
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 2: was just at that point so focused on her to

374
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 2: the beach. There was two folks in my mind, which

375
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 2: is where is a shark? And just get her to

376
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: the beach. I was never really thinking about anyone else

377
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 2: being there. A lifeguard did come up to move the

378
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 2: board for the last few strokes. I don't know how

379
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 2: far we were, but it was it felt at the

380
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 2: last little bit right fall shore. And that was great

381
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 2: because as soon as I could stand, he was there

382
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 2: to help pick up her legs and I carried a

383
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 2: torso and we just got it up to dry sand

384
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 2: where there was heaps of people ready to help her.

385
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 1: Did Anty say, do you think to yourself? Maybe it

386
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: didn't un't but I could be mixed. I mean, obviously

387
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 1: you think your life is in danger, but did you

388
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: really deep down think this bloody shark you could come

389
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 1: and get me mixed and we'd both gone.

390
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 2: Was once I saw the size of the shark, I

391
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 2: realized that at any point where I couldn't see the shark,

392
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 2: it could be coming at me. And from behind, and yeah,

393
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 2: it wasn't a I could be next. I was pretty

394
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 2: aware that I wasn't the one in the most danger

395
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 2: in this moment. At the same time, I was terrified

396
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 2: for a pretty rational reason. I reckon is that there

397
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 2: was a hungry, really powerful, large animal in the water.

398
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,199
Speaker 2: It definitely wasn't the exact phrase I was next, But

399
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 2: all of my actions were a balance between wanting to

400
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 2: do what I can to help and also being really

401
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,880
Speaker 2: scared for my own safety.

402
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,679
Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know, most people never get confronted with

403
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: this at all, but self preservation is as strong as instinct.

404
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,200
Speaker 1: I've got to preserve my life, but at the same time,

405
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 1: I've got to do the right thing by my community,

406
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 1: by the person who's just been bitten by the shark.

407
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: Sort of, those two things are sort of oppositely, the

408
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,200
Speaker 1: sit in opposite directions. Did you ever, at any stage

409
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,360
Speaker 1: feel overwhelmingly one way or the.

410
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: Other when you ask that question. I kind of think

411
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 2: of what my three options were in that scenario, and

412
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 2: the first one was go to the beach, which would

413
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,720
Speaker 2: have been overwhelmingly driven by self preservation, yeah, survival. The

414
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 2: second one was going there and just do what I

415
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 2: can to get this shark to let go of Leah,

416
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,399
Speaker 2: and that would have been very much do what I

417
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: can to help my community and no consideration for my

418
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 2: own safety. And I think the fact that I was

419
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 2: kind of fighting between those options and then doing what

420
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 2: I could whilst the shark was holding on to a

421
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 2: really represents there was always a conflict. It was a

422
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,159
Speaker 2: really tight balance, and I was I'm grateful of the

423
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 2: fact that I was able to stay in the water,

424
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: and it meant that once I could weigh the risks

425
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: enough and think, Okay, the shark's not actively a hold

426
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,640
Speaker 2: of Leah, I have the best chance of actually being

427
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 2: able to do something to help here. Because I'm pretty

428
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: rationally driven, and so part of the ways that I've

429
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: gotten through this is being pleased with my decisions, because

430
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 2: the one of the tough things is what else could

431
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 2: I have done to help? Could I have made a

432
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 2: difference if I paddle in there whilst it was whilst

433
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 2: that held her? And my belief is that all that

434
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 2: would have done is further in danger of myself with

435
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 2: a pretty limited likelihood that I actually would have helped her,

436
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 2: affected her, Yeah, helped her? So yeah, I think it

437
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 2: was just a real a conflict within me that it

438
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 2: was such a fine balance that kept me in the water.

439
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 2: And I think I owe that to just so many

440
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,719
Speaker 2: different things that have happened into my life that factor

441
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 2: into the way I make decisions.

442
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about that because I

443
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: know you're a member of Surf Club and you were

444
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: Were you a nipper like a younger health Bond okay,

445
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: so and breen Cat, Yeah, I remember those. My my

446
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: own kids did that. And you know those Surf Club

447
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 1: members who look after the kids teach you matter way

448
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: to get on a board? Did you mat to swim out?

449
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 1: You know, just water safety generally speaking, but you know

450
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: they don't usually don't talk about sharks, but they took

451
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: about there's a sense of obligation that you are serving

452
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 1: the communities, particularly once you get to a certain level,

453
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 1: then you start doing patrols, and do you reflect with

454
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: gratitude on the fact that you had exposure to those

455
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: things and therefore you were in a position to at

456
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: least feel like I should try to help my community

457
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of people who have never done that.

458
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: Let's say you're not a surfer, not a board rider,

459
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: You're not a surf club person. You're just someone happened

460
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 1: to be there on the at the time, not experience

461
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: of the water. Most people probably would have just hot

462
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: put it back to the beach, and unfortunately, you know,

463
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: she may not have made it. Do you feel like

464
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 1: there's some gratitude and therefore as a real place in

465
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: Australia for Australians to parents perhaps to encourage your kids

466
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: to learn this stuff at surf club level.

467
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely, definitely. I think I've been quoted many times already

468
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 2: that I've never been more grateful to be a part

469
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 2: of the Surf five seven community. When you come through

470
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: the Nippers Journey, the first lesson, the first goal of

471
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 2: that program is to teach you to have safety for

472
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 2: yourself in the water so that you can navigate surf

473
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: identify risks and if you're not a risk, then that's

474
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 2: not gonna put other people in dags' trying to help you,

475
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: and so you and you also can't help anyone else

476
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 2: until you are confident enough in the water to look

477
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 2: after yourself. Help yourself first before help yourself first. That's

478
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 2: a pretty common practice you taught in a lot of

479
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: a lot of first responder like dangerous jobs. Essentially is

480
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: that if you're you can't help anyone else unless you

481
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: are in a state to do so. And that really

482
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: fostered my passion for the ocean as well. It's such

483
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: an important part of my life. I love being in

484
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: the water. I love the challenge of conditions that are

485
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: never the same. It's what's led me into my sport,

486
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: it's what's created my social network, and I also think

487
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 2: shaped a lot of my personality. But as you progress

488
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: through the surf Club and have those skills and they're

489
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: confident in your ability to handle the dangers of the water,

490
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: that's when they really start to confront you with situations

491
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: where you're forced to actually think about what can I

492
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 2: do in a situation to help others when they most

493
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 2: need help. And I think just the fact that they

494
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 2: get you thinking about that in your head when you're young,

495
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 2: So you do the SCS I think when you're about

496
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: thirteen years old, and then you do your bronze when

497
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:37,239
Speaker 2: you're sixteen or seventeen somewhere around that, and again can

498
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: break that up into two scenarios. You're learning in very

499
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: important skills like first aid, like CPR, like how to

500
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: rescue a person with a board or a tube.

501
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,719
Speaker 1: But it's not just that.

502
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 2: It's getting you to spend your time thinking about if

503
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: there is a really dangerous scenario going on, what would

504
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 2: you do to actually help that? And I think introducing

505
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: that thought process such a young age allows you to

506
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 2: put that into other aspects of your life. I think

507
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 2: I mentioned before just spending so much time in the water,

508
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 2: you spend a lot of time scared of what's going

509
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: to happen to you, if there's a shark going on,

510
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 2: and planning for that and mitigating the risk of that.

511
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: But then beyond that, you go, okay, I saw a

512
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 2: video of a shark attack that happened recently in to

513
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: just stay on the coast, and okay, if I was

514
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: near that situation, what would I do? And I think

515
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: that's the only way you can kind of prepare for

516
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: a situation like that. The more thought that you have

517
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 2: about taking action, the more likely you are to actually

518
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: have that thought come across your mind when the adrenaline

519
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: hits you in such an intense situation. And that's the

520
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: way I like to think about it. It's never going

521
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 2: to be you're in that scenario, you know exactly what

522
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: to do and then you spring straight into action. It's

523
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: just having the enough time thinking about what it takes

524
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: to help someone that actually keeps you there and doesn't

525
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: just make you focus on getting yourself to the beach.

526
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 2: And in the shark example.

527
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you're an athlete in the sea and by

528
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: definition you know paddling long distances. You have to learn

529
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: how to get your heart rate down or keep your

530
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: heart rate at a certain level, sort of nearly have

531
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: to work out it be meditating on the water. Did

532
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: in any stage did you have to save yourself Charlie

533
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: that just breathe, Just try and bring it down a

534
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: little bit.

535
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 2: So in all the time between when shark was first

536
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: yelled and getting it onto the beach, No, And that's

537
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: where I think I have to come back to that

538
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: you can only prepare yourself to make decisions at that

539
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: moment by having spent enough time thinking about it, because

540
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 2: you don't. I like to think I was rational because

541
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: I trained myself to be, but you're not. I definitely

542
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: didn't think you've got to breathe. You've got to, yeah,

543
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 2: try and bring your heart rate down so you can

544
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: make good decisions. That was almost instinctive by having to

545
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: do that so many times through other stressful situations, I'll

546
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: be it slightly less stressful being sport. Yeah, But for example,

547
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 2: the surf is another great example. I grew up being

548
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: terrified a big surf, and I think managing that fear

549
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: really helped it. But at the same time, once I

550
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 2: got to the beach and saw that there were experts

551
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: there that could provide more help than I could and

552
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: felt comfortable stepping away, I did instantaneously or almost inside.

553
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: We wanted to check my dad was so safe. Check

554
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 2: the rest of the water. He did, Yeah, because Dad

555
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: was paddling on a ski about a couple hudred meters

556
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: ahead of me, ahead of you, yep, yeah. I wanted

557
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 2: to make sure he was out of the water, checked

558
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: the other people I was paddling with out of the water,

559
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: and then that was when I took a second, took

560
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: a breath, and just went, Okay, how do I actually

561
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: feel right now? I was aware that this was a

562
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: pretty traumatic in I wanted to see if I was

563
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: trump like experiencing trauma. And it didn't take long because

564
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: it's I've been a lot of times pretating city pretty

565
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: self analytical and reflective and I was pretty happy with

566
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: my state of mind. Obviously I was pumped up on adrenaline,

567
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: but I was still thinking rationally. I wasn't again, through

568
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: lack of another word, traumatized by the situation. It was

569
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: something really full on that happened, and that was that

570
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: was it. I have no control over anything beyond that.

571
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: When you got when you got to the beach, yep,

572
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: what did you think? Like you look? Was it blood coming?

573
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I have no sense of

574
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: any of this because everything was all covered in and

575
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: she was protected from the media. You obviously saw it.

576
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: Did you go straight to her? What happened? Would you

577
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: just come out and sort of you have to sort

578
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: of dust the shock off yourself? What happened?

579
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: Then? So picked her up out of the water, carried

580
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: up the beach. There was already heaps of people ready

581
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: go on the beach, and I've got a lot of

582
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: gratitude to all the people. There was the council lifeguards,

583
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: there were it was a really busy day, could you

584
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: so there was police on stand by it, there was

585
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: training medical staff that just happened to be down there,

586
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: as well as volunteer lifeguard as well, and they were

587
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: all had had the time while I was getting up

588
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: to the beach to prepare themselves on the exact planet

589
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: what to do. So when we put it on the ground,

590
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: I just put pressure on. I want to kind of

591
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: keep her injury, the details of our injuries a bit private,

592
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: but put pressure on one of the main injuries to

593
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: prevent the bleeding a little bit while they got the

594
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: torn keon. They did that all super quickly, and I

595
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: just looked around me and when these guys have so

596
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: much control of this situation versus me, I'm going to

597
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: step back. And that was when I felt pretty comfortable

598
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: in terms of the like how I felt when I

599
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: put her on the ground, I wasn't very optimistic, and

600
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: I guess that came from the amount of blood that

601
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: I saw in the water versus how much I saw

602
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: when I put her down. I weren't going into more

603
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: detail than that, into any more detail than that, but

604
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: that was what made it so impressive that when I

605
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: took I'd looked around, where's my dad, where's my friends?

606
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: I took a breath to make sure I was all right,

607
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: and went over and checked the swimmers. The two girls

608
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 2: were right next to Leah and just gave them a hug.

609
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: They were quite emotional. Checked they were okay. That was

610
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: when I went back and put up the privacy screen

611
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: that meant you couldn't see. Yeah, and they had already

612
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: gotten her back breathing, and so that's good. It was.

613
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: It was so impressive what having training in those in

614
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: the medical the medical training they had, what they were

615
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: able to do to bring her back that quickly. And yeah,

616
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: that's why in the since the since the incident, I've

617
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: really gotten a lot of joy out of using my

618
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: current profile to advocate for surf life saving one in

619
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: the training that is allowed.

620
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: It's critical for people who Yeah, it's so important to keep.

621
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: Her alive right in the first in the early stages.

622
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: And they need money too. Yeah, we've got to raise

623
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: money for them. Somehow, we've got to get money to them.

624
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's money. But also just the best benefit of

625
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: it is having members that are training this that if

626
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: this hadn't happened at a Kulji beach where there was

627
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: heaps of people around, then that would have been a

628
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: very different scenario. But if you have more people that

629
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: are trained and that can't help, it means that there's

630
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: gonna be more instances where there are people where with

631
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: the training to help. And the second one was when

632
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: the hospital, someone from the hospital reached out to me

633
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 2: and asked if I could put out a call to

634
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: donate blood. And that was the biggest thing for me

635
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: as well. Beyond that is that I had such little

636
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: optimism purely because of the amount of blood I thought

637
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: she had lost. That it was the blood donations that

638
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: saved her as well. And so yeah, those were the

639
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: two thick biggest things that have happened.

640
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: Given your experience on that weekend, but given your experience

641
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: generally about in terms of what you do as support

642
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: would you say to Australians today, I would you be

643
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: kill joy? But about swimming from one end to the

644
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: other end because recently, of course, we had the guy

645
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: went missing at Alba whose local used to swim across

646
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: back and forth every day or every week at least

647
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: since the event you and I and now sitting here,

648
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: we've had a couple of shark sightings of a great

649
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: white and BONDI. We've had a tax in the harbor

650
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: around Baclu's area. What do you say to people who

651
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: are not used to this sort of stuff you would

652
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: you say, just what bit of advice would.

653
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: You give them? Yeah, I definitely don't want to be

654
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: a kill joy because the ocean has brought me so

655
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: much joy and I don't think steering away from it

656
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: is the right option. Is that it can be such

657
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: a wonderful place. I do have a lot of admiration

658
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: for the people that do go out and swim laps

659
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: way out to see on their own, because personally, I

660
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: would be way too scared to do that. My advice

661
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: around doing that is try and do it at busy

662
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: beaches where there's people around that can set off shark alarms,

663
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: or there's acraft in the order can help, and do

664
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: it in a group. But whatever percentage of people that

665
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: do do that haven't had an incident of the shark.

666
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: So there's definitely you can play the statistics there. If

667
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: you go back to my way of thinking. My philosophy

668
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: on it is mitigate risk.

669
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: So you admittigate risk mitigator generally.

670
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I'm a pretty cautious person because people tell

671
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: you that you're like, call fearless, like you're a hero,

672
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: and they say, usually we associate heroism with fearlessness, and

673
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: sometimes fearlessness borders on recklessness. Would you say your ability

674
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: to save this person's life was as a result of

675
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: managing your fear and not being fearless. Absolutely. I think

676
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: that's where it gets uncompetent awkward when the word hero

677
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: is thrown around, because I do associate that with more

678
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: thoughtless heroism, whereas I was no sleep oven by fear

679
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: in that moment. And when I say that, I'm grateful

680
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: for all the factors in my life that have led

681
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: to me to staying in the water, that has been

682
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: managing fear. I've been scared of everything. I was a

683
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: very cautious kid, still am very cautious, and so many

684
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: things I love to do really scare me. So when

685
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: I was doing training in swimming in the ocean for

686
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: my surf fine man, I was scared of sharks, so

687
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 2: I only like to do it around other people. I

688
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: raced in surf, and not even big surf used to

689
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: terrify me. Small surf would scare me, and I would

690
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: see all my mates out there having fun and really

691
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: really want to be out there, but just be too scared.

692
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: And over many years learning to manage that fear. And

693
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: it's not about making it not scary anymore. It's learning

694
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: how to deal with that and weigh the risks. And

695
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: I got to the I knew that my skill was

696
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: an issue. It was purely the fear, and if I

697
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: could learn how to negotiate that, then I could conquer

698
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: it in the sense. And that's what led me to

699
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: loving the ocean. I'm definitely not a big wave guy,

700
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: but some of my best results in surf iron Man

701
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: have been in big surf, and it definitely comes back

702
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: to that day. Is that I was terrified in the water,

703
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: and that's what stopped me from paddling straight in and

704
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: being reckless. That's the word I think you used. And however,

705
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: it was that management of fear that kept me there.

706
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: People are more scared now about going to the beach.

707
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: What would you say to them about that lake apart

708
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: from swimming in a flag area on a busy day

709
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: at a busy beach where there's a life saving What

710
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: would you say Tom about their fear?

711
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it comes back to that reducing the

712
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: risk you're never My philosophy is that life is always

713
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: going to have challenges and it's learning how to overcome

714
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: those challenges. One of those could be just managing fears.

715
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: There's always going to be fears. There's all those numbers

716
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: out there about you're more likely to in yourself driving

717
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: to the beach than you are to get attacked by

718
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: the shark. And so I think you've definitely got to

719
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: challenge yourself if you have those fears, but be aware

720
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: of the risks. So if you can't swim and you

721
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: want to go down to the beach and you're scared

722
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: of sharks and scared of swimming, and you're thinking, oh,

723
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: I should just go out and do it, don't worry

724
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 2: to make me scared. No, you should learn to swim first, Yeah,

725
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: and then you should consider it. And when I'm weighing risks,

726
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: I last night I had to cancel a paddle that

727
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: I was supposed to do from Bondai towards Camp Cove,

728
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: which is all around the back of the cliffs. So

729
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: something goes wrong, there's no at night. Yeah it was

730
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: at some like close to sun's dark. Yeah, it wasn't

731
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: dark yet. But the idea was that if something goes wrong,

732
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 2: I can't just paddle into the beach and people would

733
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: be searching for me in the duck and we just

734
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: had a couple of things go wrong in a row.

735
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: We were under time pressure and we just went, nuh,

736
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 2: We're going to call it like there's it's just not

737
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: worth it.

738
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: At this point, that's where I live and I can

739
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: deal with. It's pretty scary around there around the cliffs.

740
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 2: I've had one incident where I bit off more than

741
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: I could chew on a paddle and was limping my

742
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: way home after the sun had set. Around the back

743
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: of the cliff's there in huge swell and that wasn't

744
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: a fun experience. See where you come into Camp caver

745
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 2: A Nielson Park Camp Cove. So that particular incident was

746
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: my first year training for the race, was my first

747
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: time back swimming since off season, and so I thought

748
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: I was fitter than I was, and I ended up

749
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: doing a paddle from Malabar into Camp Cove. So it's

750
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: about twenty kilometers well, and the whole last ten kilometers

751
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: from Bondi where there's no points you can get out

752
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: until you finish.

753
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they've got the gap. They got the cliff there.

754
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all massive cliffs again again, I said, a

755
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 2: huge swell, So yeah, I want to miss mess around

756
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: with it. But there was also a big current going

757
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 2: against me, So it just ended up taking me half

758
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 2: an hour forty five minutes, and I'd planned And that

759
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: was where it came back to that you described a

760
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: meditative state is that you can learn to train your

761
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: thoughts a little bit, and I was, I've had pretty

762
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 2: awful thoughts out there, but you just learned to kind

763
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: of go, Okay, that thought can't hurt me. You just

764
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 2: got to let it go. I'm going to get back.

765
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: I just got to be patient and I'm just going

766
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: to be scared for the whole time I'm paddling.

767
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: Back and accept it exactly.

768
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

769
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, because fear is something If you accept it, it's

770
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: not that bad. It's when you're fighting against it. I mean,

771
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'm scared, But what am I going to

772
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: do about it? Is that what you're saying, absolutely, Are

773
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: you a surfer? I used to be. I can't even

774
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: because that had a back or ros, but I used

775
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: to ride a board. Yeah.

776
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: I think a good analogy for that is when you're

777
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: surfing on a small day and you get held down

778
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: by a wave and you try to fight it and

779
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: come back up. Those are sometimes the most scary experiences

780
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: because when you try and fight it and then don't

781
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: get back up for a breath straight away, Suddenly you've

782
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: used all your oxygen and then you go, Okay, I've

783
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: run out of breath. What am I going to do?

784
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: Whereas when you go out in the big days and

785
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: you're prepared to face a long hold down and you

786
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: just accept that you're going to get washed around and

787
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: eventually you're going to pop back up. You pop back

788
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: up after ten to fifteen seconds of getting held down

789
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: and feel fine. I think that's the same with your fears,

790
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: is when you learn to accept that they're just thoughts

791
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: and the actual fear isn't going to hurt you. It's

792
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 2: actually there to protect you. A really powerful method, and

793
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: it's also something I've used in my sport is that

794
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: fear is really closely adjacent to excitement, and so I'd

795
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: be really scared for a race because there was a

796
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: lot of pressure on it. That was big surf And

797
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: I learned through the years that when I finished those events,

798
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: I used to be so angry at myself of going

799
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: that that was so much fun. I wish I could

800
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: have appreciated it more in the moment, And that was

801
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: the essentially the hard way through trial and how I

802
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: learned that you can have not complete control of your thoughts,

803
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: but you can negotiate with them to control your state

804
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: of moment in time.

805
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: We just mentioned a moment ago. In the last couple

806
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: of days have been quite a few sightings of a

807
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: white shark, great white shark, particular round BONDI what should

808
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: we do about it?

809
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: It's a tough one, particular great white shark.

810
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: Well, yes, this particular one, but also ones here others

811
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: will follow, I mean, and it might not be great whites,

812
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: it might be bull sharks or other types of sharks.

813
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: But I'm doing a dangerous one. But what should we

814
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: be thinking about as a as a community. Should we

815
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: be putting pressure on the government? Should make sure that them

816
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: should be more drone? So I thinks I noticed the

817
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: guy that he's doing it for free, but he's been

818
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: following that whiteout around with his own drone. What do

819
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: you think about this?

820
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: I want to be pretty transparent in the fact that

821
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm not an expert. I don't have a full understanding

822
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: of both sides of the arguments. But my perspective on

823
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: it is that something does need to be done. I

824
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: think there's definitely been more shark attacks in Australia in

825
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: the last year or two than they have been in

826
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: my entire life. And the beaches are such an important

827
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: part of Australian culture. They've provided me with such joy.

828
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: They're one of my the things I'm most proud of

829
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: as an Australian is our ocean culture, and so we

830
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: need to feel safe in our water. I don't like

831
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: the idea of needlessly killing animals, and I think there's

832
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: a lot of data out there that shows that coloring

833
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 2: doesn't work, especially for these sharks like great whites. And

834
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: I think another one will come back, pardon another one

835
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: will It will come back from New Zealand or Africa

836
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: at Areca or something like that. So yeah, I think

837
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: that's either extremes aren't options. I think we can't just

838
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: leave it and expect it to fix itself. But I

839
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: think culing isn't the right solution in my opinion. The

840
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: drones seem like a pretty harmless option with a lot

841
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: of upside, particularly on that day of Kuljie. I understand

842
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: that they have to be cautious of the airspace and

843
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: the planes. That's definitely a real risk, But from my understanding,

844
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: most of the life savers have to get license to

845
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 2: control those drones so they will know that they can't

846
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: fly into the air space. And it was such a

847
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: clear day that you could see from the footage how

848
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 2: easy it was to see that shark and the water

849
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: would have been able to get cleared before the shark

850
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 2: actually came into the bay. So I know that there's

851
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: already action being undertaken to get more drones out there.

852
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: In terms of what else needs to be done, I

853
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: think there needs to be people that understand the issue

854
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 2: more than me taking the time to sit down and

855
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 2: make a plan. So I'm not going to give a

856
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: precise answer, but I'd like to encourage the governments and

857
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: the people that can help to mitigate this risks.

858
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: I notice you that you've got a thing here called

859
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: Serve Fantasy app.

860
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: Yes, what is that? Yeah, So that's been a passion project,

861
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: a little business venture that myself a made of mine,

862
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: Archie and my dad have been working on for about

863
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: a year now. It's probably about a year now that

864
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 2: we we started work on it, and that came from

865
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: me finishing my unie degree and wanting to take a

866
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: year to focus on sport and wanting to have a

867
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: project on the side at the same time. So the

868
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: initial goals of it were to grow the audience of

869
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: the sport that I do, surfari seating. I man basically

870
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: creating a surf sports fantasy platform so you can pick athletes,

871
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: real athletes that compete in the SHROMP Partners World Ocean

872
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: Series events and get points based on how those athletes

873
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: perform and compete against your mates to try and outperform them.

874
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: And it's been a really valuable experienced me, I think,

875
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: because it's one got me educated on understanding the capabilities

876
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: of AI. So AI went a lot, contributed a lot

877
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: to the development of the website. It's funny upon reflection

878
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: now that how quickly it's developed. I think we could

879
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: have done it in a week if we started now,

880
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 2: whereas a year ago it took us about six months

881
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: to negotiate it, to listen to us about what database

882
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: structure we wanted. And yeah, it's been really fun project.

883
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: We've we got it up to two thousand users within

884
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: our first year, and we've got lots of feedback on

885
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: what people loved and what people want us to fix,

886
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: and yeah, go check it out. So fantasy dot com

887
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: if you want.

888
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: To have a look. It is an app, or you've

889
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: got it as a web based app, so you get

890
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: currently a website, website.

891
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: We're working on developing it into an AP.

892
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you got to turn it into an app,

893
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: but right now, so web app. So you go onto

894
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: the website, so serve fantasy dot com. Yeah, dot dot

895
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: com do you yes? Okay, you even thought yourself, why

896
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: was I there at that time? Why was Charlie there?

897
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: I guess I'd watched it on television and seen it

898
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: on the newspaper enough times where it was my turn.

899
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 2: People have asked me a lot about that, actually, about

900
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: do I feel like I was lucky or unlucky in

901
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: that scenario? Yeah, And I like to say that Leah

902
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: was definitely more unlucky than she was lucky. She was

903
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: doing all the right things, swimming close to shore on

904
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: a busy day, on a really clear day.

905
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Between the flags, between the flags of all things.

906
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I spend a lot of time in the water,

907
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 2: so I would say there's a lot more likelihood that

908
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 2: I was going to be confronted with that situation than

909
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: someone living out at Woga yeah, Yeah, I think it

910
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: is a pretty great coincidence that someone that does feel

911
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 2: as confident in the water as I do has had

912
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: the training that I've had, and coming back to the

913
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: upbringing that I've had that allowed me to stay in

914
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: the water. I think that was pretty lucky. And I

915
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: don't think of this as something that happened to me.

916
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: I think of this as something that happened to Leah,

917
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful that I was nearby and able to

918
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: do something to help. So finding out yesterday that she

919
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: had worken up and said a few words to her

920
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 2: family was a pretty big moment for me, pretty emotional

921
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: moment for me because it made me know that what

922
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: I did actually did contribute something. But at the same time,

923
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: I'm not going through anything right now relative to what

924
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: her and her family are actually going through.

925
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: If Leah's watching this, no doubt she will be at

926
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: some stage. What would you say to her, because you

927
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: haven't a chance to talk to her, Well, I haven't

928
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: had a chance. What would you say to her?

929
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: I think I would say, I'm sorry for what you've

930
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 2: had to go through, for what's happened to you. I'm

931
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: sorry I couldn't do more. To help. I'm so happy

932
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: that you've been able to pull through this. I'd want

933
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: to know what else I could do to help her

934
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: in her journey to recovery. And I would want to

935
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: find out how she could get back to in the

936
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: closest way she could, to her normal life with her daughter.

937
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: And yeah, again I don't know a lot of detail

938
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: about Leah. I haven't been able to communicate with the

939
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: family because they've got plenty going on, But I wanted

940
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: to get back to be able to do things she loves.

941
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: Wi chi Verko, thanks very much for being a good

942
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: Australian on that day and doing all those things you've

943
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: been trained for and all those things that someone probably

944
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: your dad someone's prepared you for and you save your life. Mate.

945
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.

946
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's very kind. Thank you for

947
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: having me