Speaker 1: Appoche production.
Speaker 2: In the last episode of Our Little Lady, you heard
Speaker 2: from Amber Wilson, the Tasmanian crime journalist from the Hobart Mercury,
Speaker 2: and she mentioned the case of Jari Wise. It's a
Speaker 2: case I've heard a bit about but didn't understand how
Speaker 2: this case and the fight for truth and what Jari's
Speaker 2: family went through was similar to Jason and Amanda's fight.
Speaker 3: I did say this morning that if I heard the
Speaker 3: word inconclusive, then I'll be pushing again.
Speaker 2: I'm faith is Jari's mum, and ever since twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: she's been fighting, much like Jason and Amanda, for a
Speaker 2: coronial inquest into her son's death. We're going to speak
Speaker 2: to her in a moment, but for now, let me
Speaker 2: give you some of the facts around how Jari died.
Speaker 2: It was early morning of February twenty nine, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Jari was struck by a car in the middle of
Speaker 2: a dark road in Tasmania.
Speaker 1: Jerry Wise was twenty six when he was hit by
Speaker 1: a car and callously left to die on the roadside. Incredibly,
Speaker 1: the person driving the vehicle wasn't a stranger. In fact,
Speaker 1: it was his girlfriend of three years drunk and speeding
Speaker 1: at one hundred and ten k's an hour. Most of
Speaker 1: claims Jarry's death was his own fault, but he in
Speaker 1: fact jumped out in front of her speeding car.
Speaker 3: I am faith to Carlos, very hard one for mostly
Speaker 3: to pronounce.
Speaker 4: I'm the mother of Jarry. Wise.
Speaker 3: I think someone actually mentioned to me about Little Lady
Speaker 3: quite some time back before the podcast even and I
Speaker 3: had a bit of a look at her story just
Speaker 3: because I was already quite aware of I call it
Speaker 3: corruption down here in Tasmania.
Speaker 4: And just thought I wanted to have a little bit
Speaker 4: of a look for myself.
Speaker 3: And then Sam outcame your podcast, and that's what's.
Speaker 2: The most interesting piece of the similarities between what happened
Speaker 2: to your son and what happened or what Jason and
Speaker 2: Amanda Westbrook are going through at the moment in Tasmania.
Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a moment, but firstly, can
Speaker 2: you tell me about Jarry's personality and what he was
Speaker 2: like as a person.
Speaker 3: Pretty much, he was super shy, super super shy. Well managed.
Speaker 3: I'm quite proud of that. Brilliant managed and everyone always
Speaker 3: said that, and I still get people that tell me
Speaker 3: how well manned. He was a real handy man. He
Speaker 3: also very protecting with the underdogs, always was, even from
Speaker 3: when he was little. If there was anyone sort of
Speaker 3: let's just say with a mild learning disability or on
Speaker 3: the wrong side of the tracks, Jarry wild sort of take
Speaker 3: them under his wing.
Speaker 5: I mentioned he was.
Speaker 3: Very shy, had three or four beers, and he was
Speaker 3: the life of the party. Not many people in hum
Speaker 3: and Bill in our town didn't know Jari or didn't
Speaker 3: meet Jarry because of that reason. He noted to sort
Speaker 3: of have a great time on the weekend.
Speaker 2: The circumstances of Jari's death, what you initially heard around what.
Speaker 3: Happened, I always say between two three in the morning,
Speaker 3: I've got a knock on the door, which wasn't unusual
Speaker 3: because Jari had been brought to my house many times.
Speaker 4: By the police.
Speaker 3: To be safe away from her as the perpetrator of
Speaker 3: the perpetrator of the violence. Anyway, So I've got the
Speaker 3: knock on the door, opened the door, there was a
Speaker 3: police officer without Jari. I fell on my knees. I
Speaker 3: knew already, spring out to my husband and said Jarry's dead.
Speaker 4: Before the officer and.
Speaker 3: Said anything and I remember him saying, there's been a
Speaker 3: motor vehicle incident. Unfortunately, Jarry is deceeasd so I knew
Speaker 3: before he even had to say words.
Speaker 2: Straight away from that moment, you believe that Jari. It
Speaker 2: wasn't an accident. Jari's life had been taken.
Speaker 4: I knew.
Speaker 3: I knew extract the I knew. I didn't even need
Speaker 3: to know any circumstances at all. Once I'd already known
Speaker 3: that Jarry was with her that night and there was
Speaker 3: alcohol involved. Now there's an officer at my door. My
Speaker 3: son's not there, she's killing There was no there's no infaw,
Speaker 3: but so I knew call it mother's into his intuition.
Speaker 3: I don't know, But at that time I was also
Speaker 3: on the ground feeling like I was dying. But at
Speaker 3: the same time I got up several times to hug
Speaker 3: this officer because he was probably about, I want to say,
Speaker 3: about twenty six, which is the age Jerry was when
Speaker 3: he was murdered. Who sends a young copper to tell
Speaker 3: a parent that sort of information. I was just I
Speaker 3: remember saying to him, I'm so sorry that they sent
Speaker 3: you to do this week And it wasn't one of
Speaker 3: our officers from our town that knew Jarry or knew me.
Speaker 3: They sent a younger guy, a rookie cop, down to
Speaker 3: tell a parent this info. I think that's a pretty
Speaker 3: I've spoken of many coppers and they said that's one
Speaker 3: of the biggest moments in their career. And just someone
Speaker 3: so young to have to witness that and to give
Speaker 3: that news, I think it's I think it's pretty horrendous.
Speaker 2: Did they rule that suspicious or did they rule it
Speaker 2: as an accident? From the outset.
Speaker 3: When I got the full brief of evidence, it was
Speaker 3: written manslaughter. Two of the documents said manslaughter. One of
Speaker 3: them had a circle mark around it.
Speaker 2: I want to ask about that brief of evidence. So
Speaker 2: this is the evidence that police gather, which they end
Speaker 2: up then presenting to a coroner, handing over to a
Speaker 2: coroner for the coroner to make a finding. It's tough
Speaker 2: for someone to be able to get a brief of evidence.
Speaker 2: How did you go about that?
Speaker 3: I sent off to the RTI sent off to them,
Speaker 3: I got declined, initially, tried again. I just wanted to
Speaker 3: say that I wanted specific pieces, so they said that
Speaker 3: you couldn't receive it all. And then they were sort
Speaker 3: of once again refused. So then I'm a lawyer. He
Speaker 3: actually obtained it for me when that took quite some
Speaker 3: time as well, and I remember he just sent me
Speaker 3: a screenshot.
Speaker 4: Of this little sandwich bag with.
Speaker 3: The USC in it, because for both of us it
Speaker 3: was like, oh, you know, why are they not why
Speaker 3: can't we see this? You actually are allowed to see that.
Speaker 3: There's no reason why you cannot as.
Speaker 4: A parent, as them singing next to kin.
Speaker 3: That is that was mine. To have to have to
Speaker 3: fight to see that in itself is traumatic as a
Speaker 3: parent because you need you are allowed to know every
Speaker 3: little detail about what's having to child.
Speaker 2: Was anything in that brief of evidence redacted? I e?
Speaker 2: Wiped out so you couldn't see it? Or was did
Speaker 2: you have access to everything?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, full access to everything here. Yeah, and I know
Speaker 3: that there's I have met other people and well not
Speaker 3: so much meant, but I've spoken.
Speaker 4: To plenty of people. Actually have an full of people
Speaker 4: that I sort.
Speaker 3: Of working with and helping them through this process where
Speaker 3: they do have lots of things redacted, and they do
Speaker 3: have things that are missing, and they do have certain
Speaker 3: documents that you are not allowed to have. That's just
Speaker 3: not true. That's not right, that's not fair on so
Speaker 3: many levels.
Speaker 4: That's wrong. But why why not providing why redact is there?
Speaker 3: The only reason that can be is there's either live
Speaker 3: in there or nothing there, or they don't want you
Speaker 3: to see it.
Speaker 2: Well, did you get the brief of evidence before it
Speaker 2: was handed to the coroner or was this after the coroner.
Speaker 4: Made after after?
Speaker 3: Because I just assumed because Jari's death was a reportable death.
Speaker 3: But there's so many arms in the criteria. I think
Speaker 3: he picked three of the boxes where he deserved to
Speaker 3: have an inquest and coroner said no, no inquest needed.
Speaker 3: I obviously disputed that, and I needed to know that
Speaker 3: the police had done their job correctly, already knowing that
Speaker 3: they hadn't because I actually myself point did the door knocking.
Speaker 3: I did my own investigating investigation down here in Hillville,
Speaker 3: and I know that there's so many things that they
Speaker 3: didn't do that they should have. So many people that
Speaker 3: came to them that wanted to speak up. They wouldn't
Speaker 3: listen because they were they already made their mind up.
Speaker 3: They wanted a quick and easy, open and shutcase.
Speaker 2: What evidence did you uncover while looking through that brief
Speaker 2: of it. Was it through the brief of evidence or
Speaker 2: through other means that you found out.
Speaker 3: Well, the brief, just the brief confirmed to what I'd
Speaker 3: already suspected the whole oat. The sentence was based on
Speaker 3: the fact that Jari had a history of jumping in
Speaker 3: front of cars. So in that brief was the statement
Speaker 3: of the three people that have said that Jari has
Speaker 3: a history of jumping in front of the cars.
Speaker 4: One of them was Oats herself.
Speaker 2: You get this brief of evidence, you start looking into
Speaker 2: some of the investigation's police have done. The coroner has
Speaker 2: said there will be no inquest. What do you do next?
Speaker 4: I got loud.
Speaker 3: I said to my lawyers, you know this is not right.
Speaker 3: I thought of I turned into another person. So no
Speaker 3: longer was I Jarry's mum grieving for the loss of
Speaker 3: my murdered child. Now I'd turned into I was thinking
Speaker 3: to myself, how many other people's children have been killed,
Speaker 3: and the Tasmane in justice system I just basically wiping
Speaker 3: them off looks. You know, I knew that there needed
Speaker 3: to be an inquest, and I would have gone to
Speaker 3: my desk fighting to get that to happen. And because
Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts, I knew that it needed
Speaker 3: to happen. It happened because I think if you're believe
Speaker 3: in something strongly enough and it's the right thing, then eventually,
Speaker 3: if you push hard enough, it will happen. Actually, Jarry's
Speaker 3: in quest, it was the first time in Tasmane and
Speaker 3: here that an Attorney General, at least Archer at the
Speaker 3: time had overturned the decision of the Supreme Court not
Speaker 3: going to hold the inquest.
Speaker 2: I want to say again and state clearly, the woman
Speaker 2: driving the car was never charged with murder and we're
Speaker 2: certainly not making accusations that she should have been. What
Speaker 2: we are saying, though, is the similarities between Jari's mum,
Speaker 2: Faith's fight and Jason and Amanda's fight for justice within
Speaker 2: the legal system in Tasmania. Much like Jason and Amanda's fight,
Speaker 2: Faith continued to find ways of getting support for opening
Speaker 2: an inquest into her son's death. She went down the
Speaker 2: traditional legal routs and reached out to the then Attorney
Speaker 2: General of Tasmania, Elise Archer. She has the power to
Speaker 2: order an inquest. It's what we've been trying to do
Speaker 2: with the petition to help Eden's Family Fight for Justice.
Speaker 2: You can sign it at change dot org.
Speaker 3: Started with me getting email after email, I had a
Speaker 3: couple of sit down meetings with her, and I could
Speaker 3: feel that I was just getting generic responses, nothing that
Speaker 3: was going to be of any good. So I thought, nuts,
Speaker 3: stuff this. I'm going to sit outside her office every
Speaker 3: day until she will sit and meet with me and
Speaker 3: discuss the particulars and look at some of the information
Speaker 3: that I have so that she can make an informed decision,
Speaker 3: not just having this mad manic woman that's lost her
Speaker 3: child trying to get her away quote unquote. But I
Speaker 3: needed her to see the facts, which eventually she did
Speaker 3: agree to have a meeting with me. After I think
Speaker 3: I sat for four days outside of the Attorney General's
Speaker 3: office down here in Caddy bit cold, but you do
Speaker 3: what you've got to do. The community we're fantastic. I'd
Speaker 3: sit from nine till about three thirty four o'clock, so
Speaker 3: courses sort of kept her business hours. People would bring
Speaker 3: me Banjo's coffees, People came and sat. You know a
Speaker 3: lot of so many stories of the injustices that are
Speaker 3: happening here in Tasmania were delivered to me by people
Speaker 3: on foot when I was sitting outside that office.
Speaker 2: After the brief of evidence was handed over into Jari's
Speaker 2: death from the police, the coroner at the time didn't
Speaker 2: feel it needed an inquest. Here's a snippet from the
Speaker 2: court read by AI.
Speaker 6: I was satisfied an inquest would not on earth any
Speaker 6: additional information that would help answer any of the questions
Speaker 6: I was required to answer about mister Wise's death. I
Speaker 6: conveyed my decision to mister Wise's senior next of Kim,
Speaker 6: Miss faith to kalak Unhappy with that decision, Miss to
Speaker 6: kllak as was her right, applied to the Supreme Court
Speaker 6: for an order that I hold an inquest.
Speaker 2: When did you find out that Alise Archer, the former
Speaker 2: Attorney General, had directed a coronal inquest.
Speaker 3: So I've got my first initial no just in paperwork.
Speaker 3: Then I got the one of them Supreme Court where
Speaker 3: they said no. And then by close of business that day,
Speaker 3: I got a phone call from her chief of staff
Speaker 3: saying there's about to be a press relief and you're
Speaker 3: probably going to receive a phone call from a release Archer.
Speaker 3: She is directing that be an inquest. So within hours
Speaker 3: of Supreme Court saying no, the Attorney General use her powers.
Speaker 3: As I said for the first time in Tanzi I
Speaker 3: Drip said her statements from out of this brief of
Speaker 3: evidence I'd given her information that was critical that made
Speaker 3: it so obvious to everyone that there needed to be
Speaker 3: an inquest, specifically based on the fact that those witnesses
Speaker 3: and saying that my son had his history of jumping
Speaker 3: in front of cars was made by these particular people,
Speaker 3: and we're not taking any notice of the independent people
Speaker 3: come on release. You know.
Speaker 2: The coroner didn't like being called in the question about
Speaker 2: being asked to hold another inquest, given that he had
Speaker 2: already said no.
Speaker 4: Not at all.
Speaker 3: He actually made so when we were sitting in and
Speaker 3: he gave his bindings till.
Speaker 4: Quite brief, quite short.
Speaker 3: He previously when we had the inquest itself happening, he
Speaker 3: would look at me around and there'd be in exchange and
Speaker 3: he was sort of I felt, yes, he can see
Speaker 3: what's happening here. It was supposedly a shit show.
Speaker 4: It was a circuit. It was I was embarrassed.
Speaker 3: We had Gary Jubilin down the retired comic bug Checting.
Speaker 3: I was actually embarrassed for him to see what happens,
Speaker 3: what it's like here in our court rooms. I'm like,
Speaker 3: it was embarrassing.
Speaker 2: We want to be really factual here, So let's replace
Speaker 2: some of the words from the coroner about the decision
Speaker 2: to direct him to hold an inquest read by AI.
Speaker 6: At the hearing of that application before Justice Bread, the
Speaker 6: then Attorney General, Miss Archer was represented by counsel and
Speaker 6: argued in support of my decision not to hold an inquest.
Speaker 6: Justice Bread upheld my decision and dismissed Missed Kalek's application.
Speaker 6: Less than three hours after the judgment was delivered, Miss
Speaker 6: Archer announced to the media that she intended to exercise
Speaker 6: the power reposed in her Bisection twenty four one g
Speaker 6: of the Act to direct me to hold an inquest.
Speaker 6: In my view, this was an extraordinary decision to make.
Speaker 6: The Attorney General had given no hint of her intention
Speaker 6: to exercise such a power in her argument in the
Speaker 6: hearing before Justice Bread. His honors judgment in fact vindicated
Speaker 6: the position for which he argued.
Speaker 2: So after three years that Corona reporters released what were
Speaker 2: the findings?
Speaker 3: Yes, Jerry Wieside from being struck by a motor vehicle
Speaker 3: hit by Melissa Oates she is still not held accountable
Speaker 3: for his sets, which I still can't get my head around.
Speaker 2: Were there any recommendations in that inquest?
Speaker 3: No, no recommendations. I'd already said that this is what
Speaker 3: I was trying to say in my original findings. Nothing
Speaker 3: I've seen or heard has changed my decisions.
Speaker 4: We were gobsmack.
Speaker 3: So I came out of the came out of the
Speaker 3: court room when he made his decisions findings, spoke to
Speaker 3: the media, and I hadn't yet read the like the paperwork.
Speaker 2: What was revealed in that in quest, something that you
Speaker 2: were pleased at was the fact that it was proven
Speaker 2: that Jari did not jump in front of the.
Speaker 3: Car, absolutely and that he did not have a history
Speaker 3: of it and he had not been ever seen doing
Speaker 3: it in the past, and that that was what I
Speaker 3: wanted and so and I've said to so many people
Speaker 3: after we'd sat through the inquest, that was finally I
Speaker 3: was that piece because there was obviously anyone that was there,
Speaker 3: anyone that read the documents from the you know what
Speaker 3: was spoken about there, It was blatantly obvious that that
Speaker 3: was all lies. And I was content. Finally, Yes, my
Speaker 3: son's death wasn't his own fault, but then the findings
Speaker 3: came down.
Speaker 4: And destroyed that, and I was so worried that.
Speaker 3: That was going to happen, and Saudioda was right.
Speaker 2: It's important to note about what a coroner's role is
Speaker 2: when it comes to these types of cases. They are
Speaker 2: an independent judicial officer. She or he has the jurisdiction
Speaker 2: to investigate any death which appears to be have been
Speaker 2: unexpected or unnatural. When investigating a death, a coroner performs
Speaker 2: a role very different to other judicial officers. The coroner's
Speaker 2: role is inquisitorial. She or he is required to look
Speaker 2: at the circumstances surrounding a death and answer the questions
Speaker 2: if possible. These questions include who the deceased was, how
Speaker 2: he or she died, the cause of the person's death,
Speaker 2: and where and when the person died. This process requires
Speaker 2: the making of various findings, but without apportioning legal or
Speaker 2: moral blame for the death. It's also important to understand
Speaker 2: that a coroner does not punish or reward compensation to anyone.
Speaker 2: Punishment and compensation are for other proceedings in courts if appropriate.
Speaker 2: It also means that a coroner can't charge people with
Speaker 2: crimes or offenses arising out of a death that is
Speaker 2: the subject of an investigation. In this particular case, by
Speaker 2: the time the coroner held an inquest, all criminal proceedings
Speaker 2: arising out of Jari's death were complete.
Speaker 3: I'm working with the lawyer at the moment to make
Speaker 3: a new amendments to the bill where a coroner that's
Speaker 3: already decided no that does not need to be an
Speaker 3: inquest cannot be. If one is ordered, then that coroner
Speaker 3: is not to be the one that does it. And
Speaker 3: also if a coroner decides there doesn't need to be
Speaker 3: an inquest, he needs to put in writing his reasons
Speaker 3: for there not to be one.
Speaker 2: Before that inquest was held. You've talked briefly about it.
Speaker 2: There was something that came to pass and something you've
Speaker 2: been fighting for which is now called Jari's Law. Can
Speaker 2: you tell me what Jari's law is?
Speaker 3: If a death occurs and there's a possibility or in
Speaker 3: the past there has been domestic violence prevalence, then an
Speaker 3: inquest is to be held.
Speaker 2: How has this gone down in Tasmania?
Speaker 3: The community yet running seery eyed and a little bit
Speaker 3: of a wabbling throat When I think about how much
Speaker 3: has mania, especially in the Human Valley and literally all
Speaker 3: over the world, in South Africa, Canada. I'm not even joking.
Speaker 3: All over the world people talking about Jarry Wise and
Speaker 3: what's happened. I need anyone that might listen to your
Speaker 3: podcast or if you read the findings and I've come
Speaker 3: across a lot of blocks. I've said, a lot of
Speaker 3: people in the serves market come up and chat. People
Speaker 3: have read though, taken the time and jumped onto the
Speaker 3: courts list and look, if you read through the findings,
Speaker 3: compare it to others.
Speaker 4: Jari's basically non existent in it.
Speaker 3: It's just him being incredibly upset about Jari's law and
Speaker 3: the fact that is going to make his caseload heavier.
Speaker 3: He does not know, He doesn't know what the Parliament
Speaker 3: was thinking when they allowed that to pass.
Speaker 6: I urged the appropriate authorities to consider taking steps to
Speaker 6: reverse this most unfortunate exercise in law reform. Early estimates
Speaker 6: indicate that Tasmanian coroners will, as a result of the amendment,
Speaker 6: be required to hold at least double the number of
Speaker 6: public inquests. The effect of this, upon an already strained
Speaker 6: coronial system will be to significantly delay all in quests,
Speaker 6: thereby increasing the grief and trauma of many families in our.
Speaker 2: If you want to read the full Currenter notes from
Speaker 2: the death of Jari Weiss, you can head to our
Speaker 2: show notes. Obviously, Jason and Amanda are calling for another
Speaker 2: investigation into their daughter Eden's death. What message of hope
Speaker 2: or resilience could you share?
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I've spoken to Amanda Bvi mesage her. I
Speaker 3: listened to I think two episodes of your podcast, and
Speaker 3: I send her a message.
Speaker 4: I don't I know myself.
Speaker 3: I get so many messages and I no means am
Speaker 3: I saying that I don't want that at all. But
Speaker 3: you actually, once your name is out there and people
Speaker 3: realize what you're doing, the support and encouragement, and I
Speaker 3: think I've heard Jason say about Amanda, they've never had
Speaker 3: any negative I have never had any negative messages come anyway.
Speaker 3: So I sent Amanda just a brief message just to
Speaker 3: sort of touch base and letting you know, sending strength
Speaker 3: and love. And we shared a little bit. And basically,
Speaker 3: because we don't live that Tavi is tiny, I can
Speaker 3: drive up there and be there in a couple of hours.
Speaker 4: Don't be quiet.
Speaker 5: That's my advice, and I did a post just recently.
Speaker 3: Everyone said, even my lawyers initially know, don't do that.
Speaker 3: Not be quiet, Shush the police initially when they first
Speaker 3: saw their investigation. Just sit back, let us do our jobs.
Speaker 3: Don't do to do any of that. Do not listening
Speaker 3: to it. Don't be quiet, but as loud as you can.
Speaker 3: Gather everything that you can, record everything that you can.
Speaker 3: My husband used to go to work, my youngest son
Speaker 3: will go to college, and my laundry and would turn
Speaker 3: into stuff that you see on bloody ncies or something
Speaker 3: like sticky notes everywhere. I just had Jerry's got two
Speaker 3: files at home. One's nice and neat and tidy, and
Speaker 3: the other one I'm going to believe the way it is,
Speaker 3: which is when I was investigating each statement myself and
Speaker 3: following it up.
Speaker 2: What legacy do you hope the Jarry story leaves behind.
Speaker 5: That's a tough one because I I really do struggle
Speaker 5: with that one, because a I would just wish see
Speaker 5: he was here, so that question never has to be asked.
Speaker 3: Again, don't.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't really have the words for that.
Speaker 3: I just what I hope that what Jarry's done has
Speaker 3: waken people up.
Speaker 5: I know that it has me incredibly.
Speaker 4: I used to before Jarry was murdered.
Speaker 3: I used to hear people speaking the way I do
Speaker 3: now and think that they had mental health issues. It's
Speaker 3: not mental health issues, it's being aware. The system down
Speaker 3: here is mind blowingly corrupt.
Speaker 4: I've said it before. It's not the it's not the
Speaker 4: guy's on the street with the hoodies in the night.
Speaker 4: You've got to worry about it. The bloody boys in blue.
Speaker 2: Yeah,