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Speaker 1: Appoche production.

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Speaker 2: In the last episode of Our Little Lady, you heard

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Speaker 2: from Amber Wilson, the Tasmanian crime journalist from the Hobart Mercury,

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Speaker 2: and she mentioned the case of Jari Wise. It's a

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Speaker 2: case I've heard a bit about but didn't understand how

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Speaker 2: this case and the fight for truth and what Jari's

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Speaker 2: family went through was similar to Jason and Amanda's fight.

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Speaker 3: I did say this morning that if I heard the

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Speaker 3: word inconclusive, then I'll be pushing again.

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Speaker 2: I'm faith is Jari's mum, and ever since twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: she's been fighting, much like Jason and Amanda, for a

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Speaker 2: coronial inquest into her son's death. We're going to speak

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Speaker 2: to her in a moment, but for now, let me

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Speaker 2: give you some of the facts around how Jari died.

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Speaker 2: It was early morning of February twenty nine, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Jari was struck by a car in the middle of

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Speaker 2: a dark road in Tasmania.

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Speaker 1: Jerry Wise was twenty six when he was hit by

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Speaker 1: a car and callously left to die on the roadside. Incredibly,

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Speaker 1: the person driving the vehicle wasn't a stranger. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it was his girlfriend of three years drunk and speeding

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Speaker 1: at one hundred and ten k's an hour. Most of

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Speaker 1: claims Jarry's death was his own fault, but he in

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Speaker 1: fact jumped out in front of her speeding car.

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Speaker 3: I am faith to Carlos, very hard one for mostly

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Speaker 3: to pronounce.

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Speaker 4: I'm the mother of Jarry. Wise.

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Speaker 3: I think someone actually mentioned to me about Little Lady

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Speaker 3: quite some time back before the podcast even and I

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Speaker 3: had a bit of a look at her story just

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Speaker 3: because I was already quite aware of I call it

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Speaker 3: corruption down here in Tasmania.

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Speaker 4: And just thought I wanted to have a little bit

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Speaker 4: of a look for myself.

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Speaker 3: And then Sam outcame your podcast, and that's what's.

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Speaker 2: The most interesting piece of the similarities between what happened

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Speaker 2: to your son and what happened or what Jason and

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Speaker 2: Amanda Westbrook are going through at the moment in Tasmania.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a moment, but firstly, can

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Speaker 2: you tell me about Jarry's personality and what he was

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Speaker 2: like as a person.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much, he was super shy, super super shy. Well managed.

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Speaker 3: I'm quite proud of that. Brilliant managed and everyone always

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Speaker 3: said that, and I still get people that tell me

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Speaker 3: how well manned. He was a real handy man. He

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Speaker 3: also very protecting with the underdogs, always was, even from

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Speaker 3: when he was little. If there was anyone sort of

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Speaker 3: let's just say with a mild learning disability or on

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Speaker 3: the wrong side of the tracks, Jarry wild sort of take

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Speaker 3: them under his wing.

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Speaker 5: I mentioned he was.

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Speaker 3: Very shy, had three or four beers, and he was

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Speaker 3: the life of the party. Not many people in hum

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Speaker 3: and Bill in our town didn't know Jari or didn't

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Speaker 3: meet Jarry because of that reason. He noted to sort

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Speaker 3: of have a great time on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: The circumstances of Jari's death, what you initially heard around what.

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Speaker 3: Happened, I always say between two three in the morning,

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Speaker 3: I've got a knock on the door, which wasn't unusual

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Speaker 3: because Jari had been brought to my house many times.

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Speaker 4: By the police.

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Speaker 3: To be safe away from her as the perpetrator of

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Speaker 3: the perpetrator of the violence. Anyway, So I've got the

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Speaker 3: knock on the door, opened the door, there was a

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Speaker 3: police officer without Jari. I fell on my knees. I

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Speaker 3: knew already, spring out to my husband and said Jarry's dead.

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Speaker 4: Before the officer and.

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Speaker 3: Said anything and I remember him saying, there's been a

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Speaker 3: motor vehicle incident. Unfortunately, Jarry is deceeasd so I knew

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Speaker 3: before he even had to say words.

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Speaker 2: Straight away from that moment, you believe that Jari. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't an accident. Jari's life had been taken.

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Speaker 4: I knew.

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Speaker 3: I knew extract the I knew. I didn't even need

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Speaker 3: to know any circumstances at all. Once I'd already known

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Speaker 3: that Jarry was with her that night and there was

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Speaker 3: alcohol involved. Now there's an officer at my door. My

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Speaker 3: son's not there, she's killing There was no there's no infaw,

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Speaker 3: but so I knew call it mother's into his intuition.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, But at that time I was also

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Speaker 3: on the ground feeling like I was dying. But at

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Speaker 3: the same time I got up several times to hug

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Speaker 3: this officer because he was probably about, I want to say,

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Speaker 3: about twenty six, which is the age Jerry was when

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Speaker 3: he was murdered. Who sends a young copper to tell

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Speaker 3: a parent that sort of information. I was just I

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Speaker 3: remember saying to him, I'm so sorry that they sent

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Speaker 3: you to do this week And it wasn't one of

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Speaker 3: our officers from our town that knew Jarry or knew me.

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Speaker 3: They sent a younger guy, a rookie cop, down to

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Speaker 3: tell a parent this info. I think that's a pretty

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Speaker 3: I've spoken of many coppers and they said that's one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest moments in their career. And just someone

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Speaker 3: so young to have to witness that and to give

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Speaker 3: that news, I think it's I think it's pretty horrendous.

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Speaker 2: Did they rule that suspicious or did they rule it

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Speaker 2: as an accident? From the outset.

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Speaker 3: When I got the full brief of evidence, it was

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Speaker 3: written manslaughter. Two of the documents said manslaughter. One of

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Speaker 3: them had a circle mark around it.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask about that brief of evidence. So

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Speaker 2: this is the evidence that police gather, which they end

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Speaker 2: up then presenting to a coroner, handing over to a

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Speaker 2: coroner for the coroner to make a finding. It's tough

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Speaker 2: for someone to be able to get a brief of evidence.

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Speaker 2: How did you go about that?

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Speaker 3: I sent off to the RTI sent off to them,

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Speaker 3: I got declined, initially, tried again. I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: say that I wanted specific pieces, so they said that

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Speaker 3: you couldn't receive it all. And then they were sort

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Speaker 3: of once again refused. So then I'm a lawyer. He

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Speaker 3: actually obtained it for me when that took quite some

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Speaker 3: time as well, and I remember he just sent me

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Speaker 3: a screenshot.

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Speaker 4: Of this little sandwich bag with.

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Speaker 3: The USC in it, because for both of us it

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, you know, why are they not why

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Speaker 3: can't we see this? You actually are allowed to see that.

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Speaker 3: There's no reason why you cannot as.

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Speaker 4: A parent, as them singing next to kin.

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Speaker 3: That is that was mine. To have to have to

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Speaker 3: fight to see that in itself is traumatic as a

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Speaker 3: parent because you need you are allowed to know every

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Speaker 3: little detail about what's having to child.

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Speaker 2: Was anything in that brief of evidence redacted?

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Speaker 4: I e?

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Speaker 2: Wiped out so you couldn't see it? Or was did

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Speaker 2: you have access to everything?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, full access to everything here. Yeah, and I know

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Speaker 3: that there's I have met other people and well not

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Speaker 3: so much meant, but I've spoken.

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Speaker 4: To plenty of people. Actually have an full of people

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Speaker 4: that I sort.

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Speaker 3: Of working with and helping them through this process where

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Speaker 3: they do have lots of things redacted, and they do

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Speaker 3: have things that are missing, and they do have certain

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Speaker 3: documents that you are not allowed to have. That's just

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Speaker 3: not true. That's not right, that's not fair on so

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Speaker 3: many levels.

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Speaker 4: That's wrong. But why why not providing why redact is there?

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Speaker 3: The only reason that can be is there's either live

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Speaker 3: in there or nothing there, or they don't want you

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Speaker 3: to see it.

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Speaker 2: Well, did you get the brief of evidence before it

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Speaker 2: was handed to the coroner or was this after the coroner.

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Speaker 4: Made after after?

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Speaker 3: Because I just assumed because Jari's death was a reportable death.

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Speaker 3: But there's so many arms in the criteria. I think

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Speaker 3: he picked three of the boxes where he deserved to

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Speaker 3: have an inquest and coroner said no, no inquest needed.

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Speaker 3: I obviously disputed that, and I needed to know that

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Speaker 3: the police had done their job correctly, already knowing that

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Speaker 3: they hadn't because I actually myself point did the door knocking.

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Speaker 3: I did my own investigating investigation down here in Hillville,

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Speaker 3: and I know that there's so many things that they

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Speaker 3: didn't do that they should have. So many people that

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Speaker 3: came to them that wanted to speak up. They wouldn't

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Speaker 3: listen because they were they already made their mind up.

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Speaker 3: They wanted a quick and easy, open and shutcase.

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Speaker 2: What evidence did you uncover while looking through that brief

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Speaker 2: of it. Was it through the brief of evidence or

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Speaker 2: through other means that you found out.

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Speaker 3: Well, the brief, just the brief confirmed to what I'd

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Speaker 3: already suspected the whole oat. The sentence was based on

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Speaker 3: the fact that Jari had a history of jumping in

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Speaker 3: front of cars. So in that brief was the statement

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Speaker 3: of the three people that have said that Jari has

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Speaker 3: a history of jumping in front of the cars.

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Speaker 4: One of them was Oats herself.

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Speaker 2: You get this brief of evidence, you start looking into

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Speaker 2: some of the investigation's police have done. The coroner has

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Speaker 2: said there will be no inquest. What do you do next?

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Speaker 4: I got loud.

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Speaker 3: I said to my lawyers, you know this is not right.

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Speaker 3: I thought of I turned into another person. So no

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Speaker 3: longer was I Jarry's mum grieving for the loss of

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Speaker 3: my murdered child. Now I'd turned into I was thinking

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Speaker 3: to myself, how many other people's children have been killed,

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Speaker 3: and the Tasmane in justice system I just basically wiping

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Speaker 3: them off looks. You know, I knew that there needed

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Speaker 3: to be an inquest, and I would have gone to

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Speaker 3: my desk fighting to get that to happen. And because

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Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts, I knew that it needed

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Speaker 3: to happen. It happened because I think if you're believe

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Speaker 3: in something strongly enough and it's the right thing, then eventually,

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Speaker 3: if you push hard enough, it will happen. Actually, Jarry's

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Speaker 3: in quest, it was the first time in Tasmane and

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Speaker 3: here that an Attorney General, at least Archer at the

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Speaker 3: time had overturned the decision of the Supreme Court not

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Speaker 3: going to hold the inquest.

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Speaker 2: I want to say again and state clearly, the woman

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Speaker 2: driving the car was never charged with murder and we're

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Speaker 2: certainly not making accusations that she should have been. What

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Speaker 2: we are saying, though, is the similarities between Jari's mum,

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Speaker 2: Faith's fight and Jason and Amanda's fight for justice within

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Speaker 2: the legal system in Tasmania. Much like Jason and Amanda's fight,

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Speaker 2: Faith continued to find ways of getting support for opening

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Speaker 2: an inquest into her son's death. She went down the

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Speaker 2: traditional legal routs and reached out to the then Attorney

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Speaker 2: General of Tasmania, Elise Archer. She has the power to

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Speaker 2: order an inquest. It's what we've been trying to do

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Speaker 2: with the petition to help Eden's Family Fight for Justice.

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Speaker 2: You can sign it at change dot org.

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Speaker 3: Started with me getting email after email, I had a

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Speaker 3: couple of sit down meetings with her, and I could

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Speaker 3: feel that I was just getting generic responses, nothing that

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Speaker 3: was going to be of any good. So I thought, nuts,

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Speaker 3: stuff this. I'm going to sit outside her office every

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Speaker 3: day until she will sit and meet with me and

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Speaker 3: discuss the particulars and look at some of the information

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Speaker 3: that I have so that she can make an informed decision,

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Speaker 3: not just having this mad manic woman that's lost her

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Speaker 3: child trying to get her away quote unquote. But I

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Speaker 3: needed her to see the facts, which eventually she did

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Speaker 3: agree to have a meeting with me. After I think

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Speaker 3: I sat for four days outside of the Attorney General's

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Speaker 3: office down here in Caddy bit cold, but you do

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Speaker 3: what you've got to do. The community we're fantastic. I'd

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Speaker 3: sit from nine till about three thirty four o'clock, so

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Speaker 3: courses sort of kept her business hours. People would bring

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Speaker 3: me Banjo's coffees, People came and sat. You know a

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Speaker 3: lot of so many stories of the injustices that are

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Speaker 3: happening here in Tasmania were delivered to me by people

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Speaker 3: on foot when I was sitting outside that office.

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Speaker 2: After the brief of evidence was handed over into Jari's

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Speaker 2: death from the police, the coroner at the time didn't

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Speaker 2: feel it needed an inquest. Here's a snippet from the

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Speaker 2: court read by AI.

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Speaker 6: I was satisfied an inquest would not on earth any

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Speaker 6: additional information that would help answer any of the questions

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Speaker 6: I was required to answer about mister Wise's death. I

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Speaker 6: conveyed my decision to mister Wise's senior next of Kim,

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Speaker 6: Miss faith to kalak Unhappy with that decision, Miss to

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Speaker 6: kllak as was her right, applied to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 6: for an order that I hold an inquest.

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Speaker 2: When did you find out that Alise Archer, the former

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Speaker 2: Attorney General, had directed a coronal inquest.

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Speaker 3: So I've got my first initial no just in paperwork.

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Speaker 3: Then I got the one of them Supreme Court where

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Speaker 3: they said no. And then by close of business that day,

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Speaker 3: I got a phone call from her chief of staff

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Speaker 3: saying there's about to be a press relief and you're

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Speaker 3: probably going to receive a phone call from a release Archer.

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Speaker 3: She is directing that be an inquest. So within hours

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Speaker 3: of Supreme Court saying no, the Attorney General use her powers.

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Speaker 3: As I said for the first time in Tanzi I

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Speaker 3: Drip said her statements from out of this brief of

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Speaker 3: evidence I'd given her information that was critical that made

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Speaker 3: it so obvious to everyone that there needed to be

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Speaker 3: an inquest, specifically based on the fact that those witnesses

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Speaker 3: and saying that my son had his history of jumping

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Speaker 3: in front of cars was made by these particular people,

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Speaker 3: and we're not taking any notice of the independent people

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Speaker 3: come on release. You know.

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Speaker 2: The coroner didn't like being called in the question about

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Speaker 2: being asked to hold another inquest, given that he had

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Speaker 2: already said no.

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Speaker 4: Not at all.

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Speaker 3: He actually made so when we were sitting in and

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Speaker 3: he gave his bindings till.

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Speaker 4: Quite brief, quite short.

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Speaker 3: He previously when we had the inquest itself happening, he

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Speaker 3: would look at me around and there'd be in exchange and

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Speaker 3: he was sort of I felt, yes, he can see

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Speaker 3: what's happening here. It was supposedly a shit show.

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Speaker 4: It was a circuit. It was it was I was embarrassed.

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Speaker 3: We had Gary Jubilin down the retired comic bug checting.

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Speaker 3: I was actually embarrassed for him to see what happens,

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Speaker 3: what it's like here in our court rooms. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: it was embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: We want to be really factual here, So let's replace

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Speaker 2: some of the words from the coroner about the decision

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Speaker 2: to direct him to hold an inquest read by AI.

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Speaker 6: At the hearing of that application before Justice Bread, the

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Speaker 6: then Attorney General, Miss Archer was represented by counsel and

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Speaker 6: argued in support of my decision not to hold an inquest.

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Speaker 6: Justice Bread upheld my decision and dismissed missed Kalek's application.

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Speaker 6: Less than three hours after the judgment was delivered, Miss

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Speaker 6: Archer announced to the media that she intended to exercise

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Speaker 6: the power reposed in her Bisection twenty four one g

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Speaker 6: of the Act to direct me to hold an inquest.

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Speaker 6: In my view, this was an extraordinary decision to make.

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Speaker 6: The Attorney General had given no hint of her intention

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Speaker 6: to exercise such a power in her argument in the

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Speaker 6: hearing before Justice Bread. His honors judgment in fact vindicated

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Speaker 6: the position for which he argued.

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Speaker 2: So after three years that Corona reporters released what were

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Speaker 2: the findings?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Jerry Wieside from being struck by a motor vehicle

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Speaker 3: hit by Melissa Oates. She is still not held accountable

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Speaker 3: for his sets, which I still can't get my head around.

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Speaker 2: Were there any recommendations in that inquest?

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Speaker 3: No, no recommendations. I'd already said that this is what

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Speaker 3: i was trying to say in my original findings. Nothing

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Speaker 3: I've seen or heard has changed my decisions.

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Speaker 4: We were gobsmack.

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Speaker 3: So I came out of the came out of the

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Speaker 3: court room when he made his decisions findings, spoke to

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Speaker 3: the media, and I hadn't yet read the like the paperwork.

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Speaker 2: What was revealed in that in quest, something that you

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Speaker 2: were pleased at was the fact that it was proven

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Speaker 2: that Jari did not jump in front of the.

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Speaker 3: Car, absolutely, and that he did not have a history

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Speaker 3: of it and he had not been ever seen doing

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Speaker 3: it in the past, and that that was what I

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Speaker 3: wanted and so and I've said to so many people

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Speaker 3: after we'd sat through the inquest, that was finally I

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Speaker 3: was that piece because there was obviously anyone that was there,

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Speaker 3: anyone that read the documents from the you know what

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Speaker 3: was spoken about there. It was blatantly obvious that that

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Speaker 3: was all lies. And I was content. Finally, Yes, my

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Speaker 3: son's death wasn't his own fault, but then the findings

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Speaker 3: came down.

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Speaker 4: And destroyed that, and I was so worried that.

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Speaker 3: That was going to happen, and Saudioda was right.

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Speaker 2: It's important to note about what a coroner's role is

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Speaker 2: when it comes to these types of cases. They are

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Speaker 2: an independent judicial officer. She or he has the jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: to investigate any death which appears to be have been

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Speaker 2: unexpected or unnatural. When investigating a death, a coroner performs

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Speaker 2: a role very different to other judicial officers. The coroner's

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Speaker 2: role is inquisitorial. She or he is required to look

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Speaker 2: at the circumstances surrounding a death and answer the questions

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Speaker 2: if possible. These questions include who the deceased was, how

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Speaker 2: he or she died, the cause of the person's death,

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Speaker 2: and where and when the person died. This process requires

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Speaker 2: the making of various findings, but without apportioning legal or

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Speaker 2: moral blame for the death. It's also important to understand

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Speaker 2: that a coroner does not punish or reward compensation to anyone.

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Speaker 2: Punishment and compensation are for other proceedings in courts if appropriate.

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Speaker 2: It also means that a coroner can't charge people with

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Speaker 2: crimes or offenses arising out of a death that is

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Speaker 2: the subject of an investigation. In this particular case, by

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Speaker 2: the time the coroner held an inquest, all criminal proceedings

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Speaker 2: arising out of Jari's death were complete.

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Speaker 3: I'm working with the lawyer at the moment to make

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Speaker 3: a new amendments to the bill where a coroner that's

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Speaker 3: already decided no that does not need to be an

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Speaker 3: inquest cannot be. If one is ordered, then that coroner

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Speaker 3: is not to be the one that does it. And

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Speaker 3: also if a coroner decides there doesn't need to be

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Speaker 3: an inquest, he needs to put in writing his reasons

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Speaker 3: for there not to be one.

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Speaker 2: Before that inquest was held. You've talked briefly about it.

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Speaker 2: There was something that came to pass and something you've

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Speaker 2: been fighting for which is now called Jari's Law. Can

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Speaker 2: you tell me what Jari's law is?

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Speaker 3: If a death occurs and there's a possibility or in

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Speaker 3: the past there has been domestic violence prevalence, then an

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Speaker 3: inquest is to be held.

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Speaker 2: How has this gone down in Tasmania?

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Speaker 3: The community yet running seery eyed and a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a wabbling throat When I think about how much

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Speaker 3: has mania, especially in the Human Valley and literally all

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Speaker 3: over the world, in South Africa, Canada. I'm not even joking.

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Speaker 3: All over the world people talking about Jarry Wise and

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Speaker 3: what's happened. I need anyone that might listen to your

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Speaker 3: podcast or if you read the findings and I've come

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Speaker 3: across a lot of blocks. I've said, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people in the serves market come up and chat. People

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Speaker 3: have read though, taken the time and jumped onto the

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Speaker 3: courts list and look, if you read through the findings,

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Speaker 3: compare it to others.

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Speaker 4: Jari's basically non existent in it.

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Speaker 3: It's just him being incredibly upset about Jari's law and

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Speaker 3: the fact that is going to make his caseload heavier.

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Speaker 3: He does not know, He doesn't know what the Parliament

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Speaker 3: was thinking when they allowed that to pass.

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Speaker 6: I urged the appropriate authorities to consider taking steps to

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Speaker 6: reverse this most unfortunate exercise in law reform. Early estimates

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Speaker 6: indicate that Tasmanian coroners will, as a result of the amendment,

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Speaker 6: be required to hold at least double the number of

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Speaker 6: public inquests. The effect of this, upon an already strained

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Speaker 6: coronial system will be to significantly delay all in quests,

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Speaker 6: thereby increasing the grief and trauma of many families in our.

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Speaker 2: If you want to read the full Currenter notes from

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Speaker 2: the death of Jari Weiss, you can head to our

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Speaker 2: show notes. Obviously, Jason and Amanda are calling for another

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Speaker 2: investigation into their daughter Eden's death. What message of hope

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Speaker 2: or resilience could you share?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I've spoken to Amanda Bvi mesage her. I

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Speaker 3: listened to I think two episodes of your podcast, and

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Speaker 3: I send her a message.

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Speaker 4: I don't I know myself.

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Speaker 3: I get so many messages and I no means am

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Speaker 3: I saying that I don't want that at all. But

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Speaker 3: you actually, once your name is out there and people

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Speaker 3: realize what you're doing, the support and encouragement, and I

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Speaker 3: think I've heard Jason say about Amanda, they've never had

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Speaker 3: any negative I have never had any negative messages come anyway.

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Speaker 3: So I sent Amanda just a brief message just to

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Speaker 3: sort of touch base and letting you know, sending strength

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Speaker 3: and love. And we shared a little bit. And basically,

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Speaker 3: because we don't live that Tavi is tiny, I can

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Speaker 3: drive up there and be there in a couple of hours.

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Speaker 4: Don't be quiet.

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Speaker 5: That's my advice, and I did a post just recently.

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Speaker 3: Everyone said, even my lawyers initially know, don't do that.

400
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,641
Speaker 3: Not be quiet, Shush the police initially when they first

401
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,321
Speaker 3: saw their investigation. Just sit back, let us do our jobs.

402
00:22:14,961 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 3: Don't do to do any of that. Do not listening

403
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Speaker 3: to it. Don't be quiet, but as loud as you can.

404
00:22:20,001 --> 00:22:23,721
Speaker 3: Gather everything that you can, record everything that you can.

405
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Speaker 3: My husband used to go to work, my youngest son

406
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Speaker 3: will go to college, and my laundry and would turn

407
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Speaker 3: into stuff that you see on bloody ncies or something

408
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Speaker 3: like sticky notes everywhere. I just had Jerry's got two

409
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Speaker 3: files at home. One's nice and neat and tidy, and

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Speaker 3: the other one I'm going to believe the way it is,

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Speaker 3: which is when I was investigating each statement myself and

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Speaker 3: following it up.

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Speaker 2: What legacy do you hope the Jarry story leaves behind.

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Speaker 5: That's a tough one because I I really do struggle

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Speaker 5: with that one, because a I would just wish see

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Speaker 5: he was here, so that question never has to be asked.

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Speaker 3: Again, don't.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I don't really have the words for that.

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Speaker 3: I just what I hope that what Jarry's done has

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Speaker 3: waken people up.

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Speaker 5: I know that it has me incredibly.

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Speaker 4: I used to before Jarry was murdered.

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Speaker 3: I used to hear people speaking the way I do

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Speaker 3: now and think that they had mental health issues. It's

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Speaker 3: not mental health issues, it's being aware. The system down

427
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Speaker 3: here is mind blowingly corrupt.

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Speaker 4: I've said it before. It's not the it's not the

429
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Speaker 4: guy's on the street with the hoodies in the night.

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Speaker 4: You've got to worry about it. The bloody boys in blue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah,