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Speaker 1: I felt like I had this crossroads where I was like,

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Speaker 1: either I can go back to a white collar job

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Speaker 1: and pretend it's never happened and hope that no one

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Speaker 1: read the Daily Mail, or I can get on stage

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Speaker 1: every night and say, hey, I went to prison for

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Speaker 1: drugs and we're going to laugh about it and just

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Speaker 1: own the fuck out of it. And it seems so crazy,

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Speaker 1: but in my head I was like, this is going

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Speaker 1: to work, and it's going to change your life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much for listening. What does it

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Speaker 2: take to make a massive change in your life now?

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the kind of incremental one percent

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Speaker 2: per day Sir Dave Brelsford team Sky winning the Tour

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Speaker 2: de Front's Marginal Games kind of stuff, even though that

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Speaker 2: does work. I'm talking more about like a massive change

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Speaker 2: of crossroads, a crisis, a clear night and day difference

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Speaker 2: going from the depths of pain to the courage to

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Speaker 2: pursue a life you've always wanted. Unfortunately, often the answer

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Speaker 2: to that is something that weird rather avoid. In my experienced,

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Speaker 2: sobriety happened after one of those crossroads and all going well,

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Speaker 2: this Friday, Yeah, this Friday will be fifteen years for

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Speaker 2: me without drinking or using.

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Speaker 3: But I got really lucky.

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Speaker 2: I got really lucky in that while my choices which

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Speaker 2: did lead to that moment absolutely caused pain to the

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Speaker 2: people around me and to myself, both emotionally and financially,

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Speaker 2: that was about the extent of it.

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Speaker 3: Not everyone is as lucky as I was.

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Speaker 2: However, for my guest today, he was faced with making

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Speaker 2: that choice after his actions landed him in prison. But

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Speaker 2: in his case, it did make for a whole new life,

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Speaker 2: a lot of growth, a great story, and some very

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Speaker 2: very funny jokes as you are about to find out.

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Speaker 2: But first I'm going to play some ads. We're back

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Speaker 2: with Andrew Hamilton after the break.

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Speaker 3: Good. I thanks for listening to the show.

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Speaker 2: This is better than yesterday, making it better every episode

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Speaker 2: since twenty thirt seen.

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Speaker 3: My name is Osha Ginzburg. I'm so grateful you're here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for coming to story Club on Sunday night.

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Speaker 2: It was a ripping time. The next show we do

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Speaker 2: it every month. The next live storytelling show is in April.

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Speaker 2: April thirteenth. We are featuring Lindsay mcdougle, the guitar player

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Speaker 2: from Friends of rom Well. So he does afternoons on

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Speaker 2: Illawarra Radio. Duncan Fellows, the actor who played Ray in Deadlock.

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Speaker 2: He'll be joining us Analie's constable brilliant comedian and Alex Lee,

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Speaker 2: the Great, the Powerful, the magnificent, former journalist now comedian.

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Speaker 3: Now all round improv legend Alex Lee.

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Speaker 2: We'll put the link in the show notes to the

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Speaker 2: sub stack and also thank you so much to Rebecca

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Speaker 2: from Dulich Hill. Rebecca got that she didn't have to

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Speaker 2: come very far to a miracle, but she got the

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Speaker 2: double pass I was given away after she see the

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Speaker 2: sound a fantastic picture of what she was looking at.

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Speaker 2: It was folding laundry. I like to listen to podcasts

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Speaker 2: when I when I garten. When I cud all Josh

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Speaker 2: Epps the other night to say hello to him, I said,

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Speaker 2: you've been with me in my garden all weekend. Help

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Speaker 2: me shunle travel a ton of gravel. I do always

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Speaker 2: love to see what you're doing when you're listening to

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Speaker 2: this show. Send us your email at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Take out your phone, take a guse you're listening to

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Speaker 2: this on the phone, take it. Take a photo what

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Speaker 2: you're looking at. Send it to me. Send us your

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Speaker 2: email at gmail dot com. I just love to see

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Speaker 2: what you're doing when you're listening, so the conversation you're

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Speaker 2: about to hear is extraordinary. My guest today is Andrew Hamilton,

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Speaker 2: a relatively new name in the Australian comedy scene, but

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Speaker 2: one that already has a very large following and a

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Speaker 2: great reputation, thanks largely to his standout twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: Best Newcomer nominated show jokes about the time I went

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Speaker 2: to prison, because yes, just a few years ago in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, that is where he was. He was

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Speaker 2: sentenced for dealing drugs after police rated his home, which

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Speaker 2: he talks about in this conversation at the very pointy

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Speaker 2: end of a life that had its own addictions and

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Speaker 2: its own pain. But as I mentioned at the top there, Andrew,

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Speaker 2: he took this moment, He used this chance to start

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Speaker 2: over and started by creating a life that he'd always wanted.

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Speaker 2: He's since had another sell out comedy show. He's at

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Speaker 2: the Comedy Festival again this year. He's written an autobiography,

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Speaker 2: The Profound Benefits of a Stint in Prison, and you'll

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Speaker 2: hear a lot about that. His time in prison, will

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Speaker 2: compare notes on addiction, his thoughts on how change and

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Speaker 2: transformation can be available. We'll talk about all sorts of

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Speaker 2: stuff because he's a very interesting human being to talk to.

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Speaker 2: I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Andrew Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: How are you you know, great man? I'm loving life.

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Speaker 2: I was listening to my Scott Galloway book this morning,

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Speaker 2: because that's what I do when I'm at the gym.

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Speaker 2: He's talking about like, trust me, I own a jet

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Speaker 2: and I've made this many millions dollars when I saw

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Speaker 2: this company, in that company, but there's one thing I

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Speaker 2: can't buy.

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Speaker 3: I cannot buy time. In fact, no one can buy time.

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Speaker 2: You can spend money, but you can make more money.

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Speaker 2: You can never get time back.

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Speaker 1: He had a pretty good impression at start there of Galloway.

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Speaker 1: Galloway for a second, maybe I don't mind.

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Speaker 3: It might like him.

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Speaker 2: How did your how did your perception of time change

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Speaker 2: when your ability to decide what to do with it

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Speaker 2: is taken away from you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was in jail for four months and that

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Speaker 1: when I look back at it now, it was it

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Speaker 1: wasn't long, but at the time it dragged on, it

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Speaker 1: was it went for a very long time. There were

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Speaker 1: parts of it that seemed longer than others. I think

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Speaker 1: the first two weeks when I was in quarantine because

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Speaker 1: of COVID, that was the slowest part of it all

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Speaker 1: because I had no TV or books for the first

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Speaker 1: two weeks and you're just stuck in yourself for the

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Speaker 1: twenty three and a half hours a day, and so

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Speaker 1: you just stuck in your own thoughts. And when you

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Speaker 1: first get arrested, that's the last place you want to

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Speaker 1: be because it's just a very dark place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can only imagine what it's like. Is there

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Speaker 2: any detox or anything like that?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean that prison was aventually my Rehabit was

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Speaker 1: my detox because I went straight from a coke fuel

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Speaker 1: bender that I've been on for about three days to

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Speaker 1: just like bang my house getting raided, to bang being

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Speaker 1: at a police station. Bang, I'm on my way to prison,

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Speaker 1: and then like you're like, how the hell did this

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Speaker 1: all just happen? And so I just tried to sleep

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Speaker 1: as much as possible because I hadn't had sleep in

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Speaker 1: a few days. So I just thought, if I can sleep,

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Speaker 1: it's better than being awake, because that was not a

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Speaker 1: great place, and then yeah, I don't think the border

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Speaker 1: of being stuck in itself for twenty three and a

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Speaker 1: half hours a day with nothing else to do. You

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Speaker 1: just you steer at the ceiling, you steer out the window,

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Speaker 1: you look at like other guys moving around, and then

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Speaker 1: you're like, okay, that seems like forever. How long's it been,

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty minutes, So yeah, you start to just try

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Speaker 1: and find anything just to break up the day into

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Speaker 1: like tiny little bits. Okay, that's lunch. Okay, then there's

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Speaker 1: some other guys get let out of their cell. Let's

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Speaker 1: watch them for an hour. Just anything to just try

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Speaker 1: and whittle away the time. So that the hardest part

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Speaker 1: of my entire prison time was first two weeks. Once

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Speaker 1: once I got past quarantine and I was out in

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Speaker 1: like a mainstream prison wing, and it was just like

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Speaker 1: it was dangerous, it was chaos, and it was like

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Speaker 1: there was just a lot of guys to interact with,

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Speaker 1: and it was just much more things to stimulate me,

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Speaker 1: between books and TV and exercise. Then it was fine.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed. I preferred having to just watch have eyes

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Speaker 1: in the back of my head just in case I

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Speaker 1: got like someone trying to bash me. I preferred that

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Speaker 1: than the bottom of the first two weeks.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever done three days in a row,

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Speaker 2: but I've definitely done some bendings in my time. But

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Speaker 2: in the end, it was less about, hey, I want

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Speaker 2: to get high. It was more about I just want

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Speaker 2: to make all the thoughts be quiet for a while.

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Speaker 2: To suddenly have no way to make those thoughts go

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Speaker 2: away would have been pretty hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And that's something that I that changed my life.

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Speaker 1: Was actually that part when I was at Longbay Jail

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Speaker 1: and I had had a couple of months by then

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Speaker 1: to sober up off alcohol and drugs. And I used

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Speaker 1: to be a gambling addict and a drug addict and

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Speaker 1: a just problem drinker. And when I had none of

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Speaker 1: that and I was just numb, I just felt everything.

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Speaker 1: That was quite an invigorating feeling because I'd been escaping

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Speaker 1: it for so long, right, anytime I had a good

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Speaker 1: feeling or a negative feeling, I would escape into my

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Speaker 1: addictions for so long. But then sitting in jail and

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Speaker 1: being like my life is down the toilet, I've lost everything.

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Speaker 1: This sucks, and just feeling like my whole body was

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Speaker 1: just like an open wound, felt so shit, but felt

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Speaker 1: so good because I hadn't felt feelings, you know, so long.

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Speaker 2: It's I remember the first time I cried after I

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Speaker 2: got proper, proper sober, like pully sobbing. It was like

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Speaker 2: one of the first times in my life that I

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Speaker 2: maybe the second or third time in my life that

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Speaker 2: had happened.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what the fuck is this? So overwhelmed me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he didn't feel good any in any way

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Speaker 1: as well or just.

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Speaker 2: There was a sad one that was did kind of

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Speaker 2: feel good, and then there was a happy one a

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Speaker 2: couple of years later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that felt It.

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Speaker 3: Was more than I could have ever.

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Speaker 2: It was more overwhelming than any drug that I hadn't

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Speaker 2: have taken.

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Speaker 3: But you couldn't have told me that.

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Speaker 1: No, No, there's something about the rawness of it when

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Speaker 1: you're like you spent some time, like much time numbing

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Speaker 1: yourself to all this stuff. And then when I felt

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Speaker 1: it felt so raw, this feeling of shitness, and it

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Speaker 1: felt good to feel shit. And then it was like

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Speaker 1: I said to myself, Okay, this feeling doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 1: Let's not feel that again. What am I needed to

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Speaker 1: do to stop feeling that way, and so then I

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to fix my life.

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Speaker 2: And this is the interesting thing is I've talk about

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Speaker 2: this sometimes on the show, the way that drinking and

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Speaker 2: using affects your memory. You might have done something quite

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Speaker 2: shit the night before and you can remember it, but

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Speaker 2: you don't actually connect your behavior to the feeling of

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Speaker 2: that's bad. I've hurt someone's feelings, and so you do

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Speaker 2: the dumb thing again the next time. It's only when

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Speaker 2: you get kind of dried out that you start to go, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: that would have been really awful for that person you

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Speaker 2: get Then then the learning happens, but you never learn

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Speaker 2: otherwise totally.

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Speaker 1: Anytime I will be in a situation where I would

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Speaker 1: reflect on my own shitty life, my mistakes, obviously, the

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Speaker 1: answer was a lot of it was caused by the

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Speaker 1: thing that I was doing that I was also using

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Speaker 1: to escape it. Right. It was the cocaine and the

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Speaker 1: gambling and the alcohol. But instead of sitting down and

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Speaker 1: having a good look in the mirror, I was like,

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Speaker 1: let's get the fuck out of here. Mentally, I'd support

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Speaker 1: let's get out of here. So then I would just

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Speaker 1: get back into the drugs and the.

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Speaker 2: Alcohol, avoiding responsibility is something that yeah, addiction does it.

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Speaker 3: It'll do anything to protect itself.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, they're very good at it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, it'll do everything it can to make sure

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Speaker 4: that you keep going whatever it is, whether it be

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Speaker 4: for me, it was also a gaming.

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Speaker 3: With pawn was in there as well, and it was

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Speaker 3: just just kept finding reasons and ways to allocate myself

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Speaker 3: to a point where it's like, well I'm here, be rude,

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Speaker 3: not too.

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Speaker 1: Exactly right, and it's crazy, like now, the antidote to

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Speaker 1: all those things for me has been filling my life

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Speaker 1: with a ship. That was the stuff I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do in the beginning anyway, But like I was just

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Speaker 1: I think I was just so unhappy with my life

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Speaker 1: and my decisions and where I then there was just

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Speaker 1: like an escape, Let's escape, Let's escape. And so when

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Speaker 1: I sat in that horrible feeling for so long in

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Speaker 1: jail and was like this sucks. We need to fix this.

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Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, well how do we

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Speaker 1: go about that? What if we could have a redo?

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Speaker 1: What would I do? And the only answer in my

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Speaker 1: head was stand up comedy.

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Speaker 2: I of haven't asked these people because I'm interested in

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Speaker 2: the prison system in Australia.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's necessarily there for rehabilitation purposes.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it is. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: I think it's there for repeat business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've been interested in your thoughts at this

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Speaker 2: because I are think one of the questions I kind

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Speaker 2: of ask.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the idea of the documentary in my

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Speaker 3: head about this is.

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Speaker 2: So someone got twenty five for manslaughter, right, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know when they were twenty one years old.

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Speaker 2: They fucking killed a bloke in a fist fight. The

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Speaker 2: guy's head hit the ground, the guy died. There. You

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Speaker 2: go twenty five years since then, MAXIML can give you

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Speaker 2: twenty five years. How long would that person have to

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Speaker 2: be in jail for you to feel okay with that

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Speaker 2: person moving in next door to your family? Most people

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Speaker 2: go twenty four years? Probably not enough, but that's that's

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Speaker 2: the time that our community has decided. He's probably a

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Speaker 2: very different person. But you know, is it a good

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Speaker 2: system if you don't feel that it's okay for him

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Speaker 2: to live next toal to here after doing the time

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Speaker 2: that we've allocated.

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Speaker 3: Probably not a great system.

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Speaker 1: No, there's and it's complex because I mean there's not

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Speaker 1: only is the perception of people when that guy gets out,

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Speaker 1: because we do live under the illusion that we say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know that once someone served their time, that that's it,

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Speaker 1: that their debt is paid. But there's not. There's a

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Speaker 1: stigma attached to that. But then also for a lot

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Speaker 1: of guys, they'll go to prison, doesn't matter if they

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Speaker 1: do ten or twenty years. Does that make them a

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Speaker 1: better member of society when they get out? Are they

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Speaker 1: less likely to commit crimes again or not? That depends

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Speaker 1: on factors that I wouldn't say I really connect that

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Speaker 1: much to what actually happens in prison, but the support

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Speaker 1: network that they have out out of it, and the

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Speaker 1: opportunities I guess that are provided for them in prison

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Speaker 1: to then get out and change their lives. Right, So

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Speaker 1: like if you just if you're locked up in a

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Speaker 1: cage for ten years and you're not taught about, you know,

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Speaker 1: a trade, or have the ability to educate yourself or

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Speaker 1: or given the support resources when you get out, and

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Speaker 1: then you get out and you have this stigma attached

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Speaker 1: and the only guys you identify with are other guys

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Speaker 1: that you went to jail with then how easy is

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Speaker 1: it to just fall back into a life of chromos

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Speaker 1: and you get out?

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's exactly it.

294
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Speaker 2: You know, my employment opportunities might be limited because people

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Speaker 2: know what I've you know, just been doing for the

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Speaker 2: last ten years of my life. My CB has a

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Speaker 2: very big gap in it and entry level jobs. I

298
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Speaker 2: might be a lot older than the other guys.

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Speaker 3: That I'm working with. And then you know, I'm feeling

300
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Speaker 3: kind of humiliated at work.

301
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Speaker 2: So I'm learning fuck all and I get a phone

302
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Speaker 2: call from someone going, hey, I'm such and such as uncle.

303
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Speaker 2: He says, you're all right, which you like, turn five

304
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Speaker 2: thousand dollars next week.

305
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Speaker 1: You just needed to drive from Townsviield to cans with it.

306
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Speaker 1: Just some stuff in the car, that's it. Yeah, it's

307
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Speaker 1: just gonna be sounds great.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to go to the tropics, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was a terrible choice. And I'm sure that person

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Speaker 3: feels that way.

312
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Speaker 1: And then you've it's got one in front of it.

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Speaker 1: But then on top of that, you've also got the

314
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Speaker 1: complexity of like when in most of the jail wings

315
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Speaker 1: that I was in, at least like thirty percent of the

316
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: guys and there were Aboriginal and they know they saw

317
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Speaker 1: their family, uncles, cousins, they know everyone, right, and so

318
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Speaker 1: some of these guys have more power and connections in

319
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Speaker 1: prison than they have out. So what's what's the punishment

320
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Speaker 1: they have that they've got more power and a comfortable

321
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Speaker 1: life in jail sometimes and out than like, what's the

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Speaker 1: risk to them?

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Speaker 2: Is it an active choice that you have to make

324
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Speaker 2: when you're in that kind of prison population to not

325
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Speaker 2: get caught up in that kind of you know, well,

326
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Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to do when to get out.

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Speaker 3: This is what I was doing before. But imagine a

328
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Speaker 3: volume I can do now I know that, Like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for all of the guys, it is

330
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Speaker 1: university for crims, right, it's just business networking. You just

331
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Speaker 1: you're meeting guys then you get out. Yeah. Absolutely. The

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Speaker 1: only thing that changed for me was that I had

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Speaker 1: my friends and family stuck by me, and I was

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Speaker 1: you know, I always was under the belief, you know,

335
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Speaker 1: you do the crime. I was happy to do at

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Speaker 1: the time, but I didn't realize you do it with

337
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Speaker 1: other people, do it with you, right, And so the

338
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Speaker 1: impact they had of my friends and family realized made

339
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Speaker 1: me realize is how selfish I'd been. But also I

340
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Speaker 1: met so many guys in there that come from underprivileged backgrounds,

341
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Speaker 1: and some of them you meet me like this was

342
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Speaker 1: always the writing with on the wall since you were

343
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Speaker 1: a kid. And for me, I went to a private school.

344
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Speaker 1: I came from a pretty privileged but upbringing. The only

345
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Speaker 1: thing that led me there was my own dumb decisions.

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Speaker 1: And so it felt like I was doing a disservice

347
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Speaker 1: to a lot of the guys that were that were

348
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Speaker 1: in there to have chosen that path when I could

349
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Speaker 1: have done anything. I chose to be a drug dealer

350
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Speaker 1: when I could have done anything, And so I was like,

351
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Speaker 1: I got to change this out of respect to them

352
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Speaker 1: and to myself and to my family.

353
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Speaker 2: When you say you chose to be a drug dealer, yes,

354
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Speaker 2: of course, but I can only it's got to be as.

355
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Speaker 3: An incremental cascade of decisions.

356
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Speaker 1: Very much so. It was over fifteen years. It went

357
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Speaker 1: from like just trying to help my mates out at

358
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Speaker 1: a party. You know, you're just like, I fell in

359
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: love with magic mushrooms in Thailand. My mates started researching

360
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Speaker 1: how to grow them. Then I was just a guy

361
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Speaker 1: who could connect people and everyone was having just to

362
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Speaker 1: put a positive good time and so you know, and

363
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Speaker 1: I had such positive times on magic mushrooms that it

364
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: was just and I saw the destruction in my own

365
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Speaker 1: life from alcohol and gambling that I was like, mushrooms

366
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Speaker 1: aren't evil. What are we doing? Like this is it's

367
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Speaker 1: only illegal on paper. I don't think that it should

368
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Speaker 1: be illegal. So I just was like, these rules don't

369
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Speaker 1: make sense. Why would I obey them?

370
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Speaker 3: Uh huh?

371
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Speaker 1: And so that's that was the way. It was very

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Speaker 1: easy for me to justify it as it got bigger

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Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger over the course of many years.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, my goodness, wow, as I can only

375
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Speaker 2: imagine that as when the cops do you come in

376
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Speaker 2: through your door.

377
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Speaker 1: You always think, yeah, I was so arrogant. I was like,

378
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Speaker 1: they're not smart enough to ever catch me. This is

379
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 1: never going to happen. You know. The police drug enforcement

380
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 1: is people being harassed at music festivals and at train

381
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Speaker 1: stations with stiffer dogs. I was like that they got

382
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: very limited skills and actually detecting it on at a

383
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Speaker 1: higher level, and so I just thought there's no chance.

384
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Speaker 1: But then yeah, one day you have a knock on

385
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Speaker 1: the door, a loud knock for the battering ram, and

386
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Speaker 1: you think, guy, is this is not a really a

387
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Speaker 1: good time?

388
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 3: Just just busy?

389
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 1: Polease play place, find out, come come again later, nearly

390
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:06,919
Speaker 1: all the.

391
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Speaker 3: Way to can you just give me a shape?

392
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah?

393
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,439
Speaker 2: What Like, I don't know anything about Australian prisons really.

394
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 2: I mean I grew up from Brisbane, so I knew

395
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Speaker 2: what happened inside Boggo Road.

396
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 3: Like I've been there.

397
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,959
Speaker 2: It's not current prison now, but I've seen the writing,

398
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 2: the graffiti on the walls and stuff. It's you know,

399
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 2: you can tell a lot from the way someone someone's

400
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,680
Speaker 2: handwriting into a lot about someone's handwriting.

401
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 3: And I mean that. I was like, there's a lot

402
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 3: of really untreated, complex mental illness going on just.

403
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: From the hand running.

404
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 2: Oh mate, I can tell you because I used to

405
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,160
Speaker 2: write when I got really sick.

406
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 3: That's what my hand running it looks like. And the

407
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 3: ship that I'm writing.

408
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, you certainly do meet some guys that are not

409
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: all there in the head and you're like, this is

410
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: that they need proper help.

411
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Speaker 2: It's far around man, Like, when I don't know anything

412
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: about Astralian prisons. Except for that, there's a couple of

413
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 2: episodes of Mystery in Between when he deliberately got himself

414
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 2: put in to do a job.

415
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and the old prison napalm that he does.

416
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,919
Speaker 3: Oh is that were they close?

417
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,199
Speaker 1: I'd say Mystery in Between is a pretty good version

418
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Speaker 1: of what it's really likes just and most of the

419
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,119
Speaker 1: time it's just guys been Laraken's out in the yard exercising,

420
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 1: and then there'd be every now and then a little

421
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 1: bit of tension bubble and there'll be just a extreme

422
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: moment of extreme violence for like ten seconds, and then

423
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: it's all over and some guy's bleeding somewhere. But yeah,

424
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 1: it's that's the way it goes. But most of the

425
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: time I found, I mean, there's a lot of guys

426
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: will tell you when they've been in there for years

427
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: that this stuff, you know, the dramas do happen sooner

428
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: or later, and you've got to stick up for yourself.

429
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: I was fortunate that everyone tried to be great. I

430
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 1: had no issues, and most of the time I saw

431
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: most of the dramas were related to stuff that people

432
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: put themselves most of the time, which was like things

433
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: like racking up drug debts or gambling debts, or guys

434
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: that were just like involved in in gang beefs or

435
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: mouthing off, or guys accusing another guy of being an

436
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: informant or something like that and not being able to

437
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: back it up with paperwork. Those kind of things were

438
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 1: the stuff I saw. Or guys are lying about why

439
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: they're in the yard. So there was a guy in

440
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 1: one of my wings who his cell mate found his

441
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: charge sheet in the bin and it said that he'd

442
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: assaulted a baby. And so he said, mate, you've got

443
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: you've got two minutes to buzz up, which means you've

444
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: got to like buzz the intercom to say that you

445
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: want to you want to be moved to the protection wing.

446
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 1: And he refused to go say, oh no, the boys

447
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: like me, and then next thing, you know, five minutes later,

448
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: he had his jaw broken. You know. So those kind

449
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: of things happened very quickly. But then most of the

450
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: time it's just like, hey, brother, are you doing. Let's

451
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: have a laugh and play some cards and let's play

452
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: some music. So it's a crazy world. But I figured

453
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,239
Speaker 1: out how to keep a very low profile, even though

454
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm a pretty big guy.

455
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah you are you are taller than me, and you,

456
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 2: you know, you exude it is probably what made you

457
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 2: a great salesperson.

458
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 3: You exude a charisma about you.

459
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: To be small would be tricky. Yeah, in a situation.

460
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: Like that, Well, you're just about not being a big personality,

461
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: you know. So I certainly wasn't trying to be a big,

462
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: big personality in the yard. I just I made some

463
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,239
Speaker 1: friends and we just exercise and just try and get

464
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: along with everyone.

465
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: Completely just fabricated hypothetical. Right, something goes wrong and I

466
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: fucking end up in there. I put my hand, I

467
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, excuse me, sir, Yeah, I'm vegan and

468
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 2: Celiac do they just laugh at me?

469
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: I think that they do. You would get a special

470
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 1: meal provided to you, yeah, but whether you were company

471
00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: ship for that, probably not. But if anyone did, you

472
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: would you would want to stick up for yourself, right

473
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: because someone might test you and then as soon as

474
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: you just like if you cop it, like some guys.

475
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes guys will try and push in front of you

476
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: on the phone or like try and like steal a

477
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: bit of food. And if you don't stick up for

478
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: yourself and if you turn it, if people think you're

479
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: a walk over, then you're in, then you're fucked.

480
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: What can What does stick up for yourself look like?

481
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: Is that always physical?

482
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: It would be like, let's go, Yeah, it has to

483
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: be physical. You or at least pretend like you're about

484
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: to like that you're prepared to fight for it. So

485
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: my current.

486
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 3: Nineteen eighty six great eleven.

487
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: I was eleven years old.

488
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: I've got a second damn blue belt in the suburban

489
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: taekwon day. So that and the jiu jitsu I do

490
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 2: with my son on Saturday mornings.

491
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: He's four and a bit or five. Now, that's about it.

492
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: But it doesn't It doesn't matter if you won or

493
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: lost the fight. It's just about the fact that you're

494
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: willing to fight. That's that's enough. If you if you

495
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 1: stuck off for yourself and copped a few punches, then

496
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: people are okay. You know he's a better respect There

497
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: was a guy my wing who got punched in the

498
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: head couple of times I really liked and I wanted

499
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: to stick up for him and my cell. He says

500
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: to me, stay out of it. You can only back

501
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: him up if he backs himself up. Like you can't

502
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: do right. You gotta let people do their own jail.

503
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: And that was an important lesson for me, was like,

504
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 1: you can't be hero for other people.

505
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 3: Is that what says?

506
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: That's one of the t shirts. I'm guessing on the

507
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: Etsy page. You got to let people do their own jail.

508
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: You hear that a lot in jail. You got to

509
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: let people do their own jail. Wow, because people go

510
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: through peaks and troughs mentally, physically, and you can't go

511
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: around saving.

512
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 3: Everyone because you got to look after yourself.

513
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: You look at yourself.

514
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got to get through it.

515
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: You've got to get through yourself. So you got to

516
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: let other people do their own jail.

517
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 3: What is the food?

518
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: Like the food A lot of people winge Big wing

519
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: is in jail. I thought the food was fine. I

520
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: scored it all or my prison food review scale. I

521
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: love it created when I was in quarantine because I

522
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: just needed something to stop me from going insane. And

523
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: I think that was my first indication that I should

524
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: get into comedy because it was like it was funny

525
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: to me to score my prison food because I'm a foodie.

526
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: I used to own a restaurant, yes, and so for me,

527
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: there was something funny about being in a prison and

528
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: still critiquing the food and then arguing with myself made

529
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: of but I was actually I was more of a

530
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: four point too, I think, and so.

531
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: Not as tender as last week.

532
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was no love in this sandwich, you know,

533
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 5: this kind of stuff like a bit stingy on the mayo,

534
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 5: you know, so all that kind of stuff I thought

535
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 5: was just so funny.

536
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: But generally I would say the food was about about

537
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: a six on a prison scale, So that's edible. And

538
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: what do you want if you train all day? Anything

539
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: is tastes great.

540
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: So I'm guessing physical exertion is a way of kind

541
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: of regulating yourself when you're in there.

542
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, I didn't realize how much your exercise and

543
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: sunlight being in the yard every day and is getting

544
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: some of my face after being a drug adict for

545
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: so long and just sitting in the darkness for all

546
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: my years just changed my mental health. And so then

547
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this place is fine, you know,

548
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: this is I can handle this.

549
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 3: What kind of like what kind of is it like

550
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: an iron paradise situation? Like what's what's the gym situation?

551
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: It's just like you're in a big like steel yard

552
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: high perimetive fences with barbed wire with barbed wire around it,

553
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: cameras everywhere. But then there'll be like some yeah, some

554
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: static gym equipment, some like dip bars and that kind

555
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: of stuff, or they're both be some ones that like

556
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: you might see it like a kids playground that use

557
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: like your own body weight to exercise with all that

558
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But then as you can get sometimes

559
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: to like more privileged wings. I was in a gold

560
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: pod at Parkley and they have like heavy like tenkilo sandbags,

561
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: twenty kilo sandbags and used to do as like arm

562
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: curls and stuff like that, so they're pretty handy.

563
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: But I'm guessing like there's no weight plates lying around.

564
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: No way play nothing that you would be able to

565
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: easily use to kill someone with. Know that, right, guys

566
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: will fill like plastic bags full of water. Guys are

567
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: so good at improvising with anything broomsticks and water bags

568
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: for doing like you know, for doing arm curls and everything.

569
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, wow, these guys are figured this out,

570
00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: and it's.

571
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 3: Probably been a while since you'd exercised.

572
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: It had been a while, yeah, so it was it

573
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: was good to get back into that and there's I

574
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: think there's a sense of camaraderie in most yards, guys

575
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: getting into the training, encouraging each other. Particularly you see

576
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: guys that are maybe overweight, don't have the confidence to

577
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: get into it. They'll really be encouraged, which is something

578
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: cool that you see guys that really encourage each other

579
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: to try and better themselves in the yard most of

580
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: the time.

581
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: Taking a moment away from Andrew Hamilton, we do need

582
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 2: to play some ads back in a moment.

583
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: So four months what was the original sentence?

584
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: So I was in Romand, which is like unsentenced jail,

585
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: and then I eventually got granted bail to my parents' place,

586
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: and then I was under house arrests.

587
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: How did you? How did you get like bail? Like

588
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 3: do you have to convince someone?

589
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: I was sitting there via video screen from from prison

590
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: with the biggest book I could find, which was gab

591
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: A Throne's Book, and my glasses on to maybe look

592
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: like I was a real bookworm to it. Of course,

593
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: visual was really important. I thought the judge scene. Sorry,

594
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: oh I'm sorry, I was just busy.

595
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 5: I thought it the judge scene. If the judge sees

596
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 5: me with this giant book and glasses. Some of us,

597
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 5: this can't be out of drug illness. Plus me, this man,

598
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 5: we made a mistake here. So I got bail and

599
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 5: then I was under house arrest.

600
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: And yes, I wasn't allow to lead the house unless

601
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: I was in the company of my mom and dad,

602
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: who were both in their mid seventies. And wow, then yeah,

603
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: I was in the house wrest for a few months.

604
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: How does that feel?

605
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: Because I I remember that my mum even saying the line,

606
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think we've.

607
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: Done something dumb that was alcohol involved, and she was teenage. Yes,

608
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: I'm not mad, I'm just really disappointed. And it was

609
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: the worst thing.

610
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: You know, There was no because I was bigger than

611
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 2: her from the age of eleven, right, so there was

612
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 2: no punishment that she could give me. The worst thing

613
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: was knowing that I hurt her. That was as fucking

614
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: bad as it got.

615
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: What's that like when you facing your parents like that?

616
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: It was fine then because I'd already been locked up

617
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: for four months and we spoke on the phone every

618
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: day and so they, I would say. When I was

619
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: in the middle of drug dealing and drug addiction, my

620
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: relationship with him was quite fractured because you know, I

621
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: was living a lie. But once the truth was out

622
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: there and they got around the fact that I was

623
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: locked up and they thought, they said to me, you know,

624
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: it's probably the best thing that's ever happened to you,

625
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: and I agreed, and so we talked on the phone

626
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: every day, and they were such a great support network

627
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: for me that by the time I got out, things

628
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: were relatively fine. I even joked, like when I got

629
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: in the car when I was waiting for me when

630
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: I got bail, I don't car, I'm like, go go.

631
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: They changed it, They're after me, go go drive. And

632
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: so that we was very cool and it was great.

633
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: It took me a little while to get used to

634
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: being at home again and also just being able to

635
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: like shit without permission and leave it and leave a room.

636
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: Even though I was only up locked up for four months,

637
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: I did find it took me a couple of days

638
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: to just readjust back to the real world again, even

639
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: like just walking around a supermarket with my dad. I

640
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: felt like people could tell that I was like fresh

641
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: out of jail, like I just you feel like it's

642
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: just you got I have the stain on you.

643
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: Mankle monitor.

644
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: It was just in my head. Yeah, wow, And so

645
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: it was just my head. I thought, like the people

646
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: can tell, but no, no one can tell. And I

647
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: had a bunch of mates come to visit me, which

648
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: was cool. I had a bunch of mates that I

649
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: thought would come visit me that didn't. I had a

650
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: bunch of mates that you know, you say, some of

651
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: your best mates do come, and then some of your

652
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: best mates let you down. But then also people that

653
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: you never thought would support you come out of the woodwork.

654
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 3: It's all good intel moments. I find they're really good,

655
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: really good.

656
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: Crisis is a great clarifier story. Yeah. People are so

657
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: negative about it, like, oh, you know, you're best translated down,

658
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: but I'm like, yeah, but but also some people will

659
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: surprise you, which is the cool thing about it, So

660
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: that's it's not all bad.

661
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: When did you kind of understand what your parents want

662
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: have been going through.

663
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: I mean I knew that pretty much as soon as

664
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: I got arrested, because I was on the phone with

665
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: my dad and I was like, your mum's collapsed in shock,

666
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: and I was hard to hear. And yeah. Then I

667
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: think that they sent me a lot of letters, particularly

668
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: in the first couple of weeks before I was able

669
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: to get them on the phone because everything happened so

670
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: slowly in jail, you know, I wasn't able to that.

671
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: They canceled face to face visits because of COVID, so

672
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: I was only able to do like iPad visits, but

673
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: even that took weeks. So but hearing that they still

674
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: love me and supported me made a huge difference, and

675
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: that was part of the reason I was like, what

676
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: am I doing? Like I need to I've got to

677
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: change this. I can't be continuing to sell drugs after this.

678
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: Could you have said anything to you know, using and

679
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: dealing you that would have changed anything?

680
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: Though, it's a good question. I don't know. I don't know.

681
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: I think there's there's something for a lot of guys

682
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: when you're involved in it, that you just you think

683
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: that you're too smart, and you just that you've got

684
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: this exit strategy and that you're just going to get

685
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: to that point and then you're going to quit. And

686
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: I just I know for a fact I would have

687
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: got to that point and just kept going. But I

688
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: don't think until my hand got forced by getting dragged

689
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: to prison, whether or not I would have listened to

690
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: that voice, even if it came for myself. I don't know.

691
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: I think about it my own case like it. Plenty

692
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: of people have told me. I was like, fuck off,

693
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: I'm fine.

694
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm on my dad. Whatever.

695
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: It was only when I actually woke up one morning

696
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: with like, I just can't I'm going to die.

697
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: I can't do this. I'm gonna have to stop. And

698
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: it was only when I looked at myself.

699
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: Or was it just a realization was it like was

700
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: there a rock like a crisis moment that.

701
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: It was just another morning after another night before that

702
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: was another time that I.

703
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: Was sure it was going to end up different.

704
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: But it was exactly the same again and again and

705
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: again and again. I was like, oh my god, this

706
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: is I know where this goes.

707
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's very cool. You just had your point

708
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: where you're like that's enough. Yeah.

709
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm I'm going to begin to die.

710
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: You know, it was good. It would have been acidently.

711
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: I've spoken about it before.

712
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: It's like his values and prescription painkillers were a part

713
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: of the last couple of months, and it would.

714
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 3: Have been you know, had some valels whatever.

715
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: But I'm a bit pissed, so I forgot that I've

716
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: already taken them having another one, and then you know,

717
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: should just forget And that's it looks it easy, and

718
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: that that would have probably going to happen.

719
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: It happened to somebody on you.

720
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: Really close personally, and that's that's how they they went.

721
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: It looks like a deliberate act, but it isn't. It's

722
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: just an accidental And that's something like that coming for me.

723
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: I used to have a podcast that I don't run

724
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: any more, cord Shits Gone Sideways. So I talk to

725
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: people about the threat, about like when you have your

726
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: crisis point in your life and how it can be cool,

727
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: life changing for so many people and for me, like, yeah,

728
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be on this happy, positive path now if

729
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: I didn't go to jail. And there are people that

730
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: whether it's like a major health scare or a death

731
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: in the family, or like losing the job that they loved,

732
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: or like a brutal divorce, or like there's so many

733
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: other things where someone has a crisis point where then

734
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: they ask themselves these questions about like what life is short,

735
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: what do I want to get out of it? And

736
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: what would I be doing differently if I if I

737
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: want to go down that path, and so like for you,

738
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: it sounds like you just got to point me like

739
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: this is enough. I've got to stop doing that where

740
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: it's going. And so I wish for people that they

741
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: can just have that conversation with themselves without having to

742
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: go through such a painful point like going to prison

743
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: or like or whatever. It is, right, but just say

744
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: to yourself, Hey, I don't love my life. There is

745
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: a path to that really happy place. What do I

746
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: need to do?

747
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

748
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: And I have that hard conversation.

749
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: It is having the humility though too. And my guy

750
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: that he's still with me, thank goodness. I speak to

751
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: him every Friday. He kind of really had to sit

752
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: me down and go. So, when you were doing all

753
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: this and da dah da da day, were that the

754
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: best ideas you had? Absolutely that was the smartest you

755
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: thought You're being Yep, where did it get you?

756
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah?

757
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: Just divorced and unemployed?

758
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was like, huh, do you think different

759
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: ideas might be useful? Perhaps ideas that you didn't come

760
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: up with? Babies, Just just do what I tell you

761
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 2: for a little while, see what happens.

762
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 1: That's cool.

763
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 3: I guess what could happened?

764
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: Everything got better, wow, because I had to just really

765
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: have humility. You know, you know, as you said, you

766
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: think you're smart, you think you can outthink this. But

767
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: I had to come to the idea that my best

768
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 2: thinking wasn't enough and it was my ideas that had

769
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 2: got me into this and what needs some new ideas

770
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: if I wanted to get out of it.

771
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: Because it's all I knew.

772
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to be said of the

773
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: fact that I don't think any of us can have

774
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 1: these huge pivots alone. I think that sometimes it's about

775
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: identifying who the people you need to speak to and

776
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: lean on to have that turning point. I couldn't have

777
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: done it without the support of my friends and family.

778
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: But then also I found when I just when I

779
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: was in a house arrest, I was like, right, I'm

780
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: going to do comedy. I saw an ad for comedy competition.

781
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: I signed up for that and I started going to

782
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: open my comedy nights. I had to bring my mum

783
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: along because I was I wasn't laid out of the house.

784
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: And I found just this such supportive comedy scene in

785
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: Sydney that were like I thought my story was hilarious,

786
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: and I liked my comedy, and so people just kept

787
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: giving me opportunities and helping me out, and that changed

788
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: my life, this whole new family that I found. What

789
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: is the seventy something year old mum make of the

790
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: Open MIC's stand up scene. Well, I mean she's got

791
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: quite an over mind, you know, and so she heckling

792
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: the edge lords. Now there's a lot of edgelds, a

793
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: lot of guys doing you know, wank jokes for two hours,

794
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: and so I think she just she patiently listened and

795
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: was like, oh, he wasn't very good, And she was like,

796
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: do you think I should have a go? And I

797
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: was like, well, well, I think that you'd probably be

798
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: better than a couple of these guys, but also be

799
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: hu only adding if you're funnier than me, So I

800
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: don't want you to try.

801
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: Speak speaking of humility.

802
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: Of all the professions there are in the world, stand

803
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: up comedy is probably, I mean, I guess maybe pro boxer. Well,

804
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: you literally walk out there knowing you're going to get

805
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: fucking hit in the face for a while before it's okay.

806
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 2: It's what does it take to know that it's gonna hurt.

807
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: This is going to probably suck, but it's in the

808
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: in the vein of trying to get better.

809
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: Compared to the shit I'd just been through. I was like,

810
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: this is a couple of people not laughing at my jokes,

811
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: so this is nothing. Who cares, you know? So I didn't.

812
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: But I was very fortunate that I found me getting

813
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: on stage and owning the fact that hey, I went

814
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: to prison for drugs and I'm gonna make some jokes

815
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: about it. That pretty much got laughs from day one,

816
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with comedy sight away just

817
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: getting a laugh, and I found it so cathartic to

818
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: laugh at my own mistakes. The organized crime squad raiding

819
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: my house and tackling me and telling me I had

820
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: a tiny cock and all this kind of stuff, and

821
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: like just I thought it was so funny. I was like,

822
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: let's let's laugh about this.

823
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: And really that's that's what they told you.

824
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this they got no I had pants on,

825
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: That's why I was fully closed. And this guy with

826
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: like fully ballet clava. They've got a shield he's tackling,

827
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: but they have so many red bulls and he's so

828
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: used to raiding bikes with guns that they just they're

829
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: so rimmed up. He just said, stay down, you fat gunt.

830
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: You've got a tiny cock. And so that was one

831
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: of my first jokes I wrote, which was that's how

832
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: I knew they must have had me under surveillance. How

833
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: else would they know about the cock?

834
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: You know? So, so you've been doing your homework.

835
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that was when I was sitting in prison.

836
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: I was writing joke ideas and then and yeah, it's

837
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: so crazy to me. Still my life feels very surreal

838
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: how much things have changed in the last couple of years.

839
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: But I sat in a prison cell riding jokes. I

840
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: felt like I had this crossroads where I was like,

841
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: either I can go back to a white collar job

842
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: and pretend this never happened and hope that no one

843
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: read the Daily Mail. Or I can get on stage

844
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: every night and say, hey, I went to prison for

845
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: drugs and we're going to laugh about it and just

846
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: own the fuk out of it. And it seems so crazy,

847
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: But in my head, I was like, this is going

848
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: to work, and it's going to change your life.

849
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: You know your parents, you say that you still live

850
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: with them, So is that a still conditional thing or No.

851
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: No, I got sentenced in July twenty twenty two. I

852
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: got sentenced to an intensive Corrections order, which is essentially

853
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: means I'm doing a prison sentence in the community till

854
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: mid December this year. And so no, I don't have

855
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: to live with them. But I'm a struggling artist. I'm

856
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: on the road touring with comedy for so much of

857
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: the year that it just didn't really make sense to

858
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: find a place yet.

859
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: What does that look like? Does it look like I

860
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 3: don't know.

861
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: My only idea is because I'm a familiar and more

862
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 2: familiar with the mental health system. Does it look like

863
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: an outpatient thing where you have to go chat with

864
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: someone a couple times a week or anything like that.

865
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: No, I mean sometimes you do that. They can change

866
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: the rules on you for Intensive Corrections Order based on

867
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: your risk profile. So if you're guys that are in

868
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: there for if you have been done on like heroin

869
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: or meth, then you may have to do drug testing,

870
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: you might have to report into community corrections. They suspended

871
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: all of that for me immediately. I'm too low risk

872
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: for them. And plus they've seen me do comedy and

873
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: they're fans of it, so they we have got a

874
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: great relationship. I'm considered by them. I guess a post

875
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: a boy for rehabilitation after prison, so I get to

876
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: do some pretty cool gigs now. I performed for the

877
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: New South Wales Drug Court. I performed at the New

878
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: South Wales Legal Aid Conference. Real, I went and performed

879
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: at Cobham Juvenile Detention Center for the boys before Christmas,

880
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: and hopefully we're going to have me performing in a

881
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: prison soon. I was originally meant to perform. I got

882
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: invited by silver Water Jail to perform there in February,

883
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: but by the prison I got invited and then I

884
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: didn't pass their own background check because I'm because I'm

885
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: on an active sentence, so we have to wait till

886
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: the end of the year. But it was so funny. Now, yeah,

887
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, shouldn't I I am more qualified to go

888
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: into a prison that if I build an active centence

889
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: and most people. But yeah, it's it's very cool that

890
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: I get to do this stuff now. And I'm hoping

891
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: through my story and through comedy that I can I

892
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: can help speak to people either who have loved ones

893
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: in jail or guys that are in jail to be like, hey, man,

894
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: you can stop doing crime like that is an option

895
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: you're allowed to do, and I actually put you on

896
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: a much more positive path.

897
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 3: What would you want to say to people?

898
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: What do you think the biggest misconception people have about

899
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 2: someone who is in prison.

900
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: I guess there is there is a massive stigma around it,

901
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: but I think that particularly when it comes most guys

902
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: are in there for drug crimes. Drug crimes, a lot

903
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: of it for meth and that may not necessarily be

904
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: selling or importing myth, but also just crimes to fund

905
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: their addiction. Right, And so I think the more that

906
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: we destigmatize drugs and understand the nuances between drugs instead

907
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: of saying all all illegal drugs are evil and bad.

908
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much changes in drug laws right now.

909
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: They've legalized magic rushrooms and MDMA. They've now decriminalized small

910
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: amounts of drugs in Canbra, right, They've got now instead

911
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: of getting criminal record in Camebra, if you have like

912
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: under one point five grams of drugs, you get a fine.

913
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: Our viewpoint on the criminal on criminality when it comes

914
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: to drugs is changing, and a lot of guys that

915
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: go to prison are not evil people, and they are

916
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: worthy of second chances, and we need to wrap them

917
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: around with opportunity and support so that they don't go

918
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 1: down that path again.

919
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the way that we see addiction in our community,

920
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: we need to do a lot of work on it.

921
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: People think, oh, you're choosing to do this, like mate,

922
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: you don't understand. Yes, they if someone's like it's doing

923
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: eye so they're smoking lies.

924
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: They know exactly how bad it is.

925
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,240
Speaker 2: I know exactly what's going to do to the teeth,

926
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: their family, their finances or whatever. They also know it

927
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: is the best choice they have at that point because

928
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: it's better than dealing with all the fucking stuff going

929
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: on in their head or in their life right or

930
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: the withdrawal of having it prior. So they know how

931
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: terrible it is, they know how bad it's going to get,

932
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: but it's better than not doing it.

933
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Exactly. When I was a gambling addicte, I remember

934
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: just it felt like an out of body experience, like

935
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: I was just spectating my own life. I was in

936
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: there watching myself being like this is fucked, but I

937
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything about it. I just felt like a

938
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: slave to addiction, and I felt similar on with cocaine

939
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: and so I just felt like such a slave to it.

940
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: But that was linked to the fact that I just

941
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: didn't like the who I was and the life that

942
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 1: I was living, and I didn't know how to get

943
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: out of it. And so for me, now I have

944
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: such a positive life. I love my life, I love

945
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing, and I'm addicted to comedy.

946
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: So now I can be a new committy cocaine I

947
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: can be. I spend my time in pubs near pokes

948
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: all the time. I never even think about them. I

949
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: never even look at them because I'm like your life,

950
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: My life is too good to throw away now.

951
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, isn't that you start to build

952
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: a life in sobriety, you know, so you build a

953
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: life that you're not willing to risk.

954
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know what happens. Yeah, my brain has rewhite.

955
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't even think about it. Like it's not even

956
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: like I'm weighing up on tempered. It's like I don't

957
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: even think about it at all. I used to be

958
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: able to not have four beers without having to have cocaine.

959
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna have twenty beers and it doesn't matter,

960
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't matter for me.

961
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 3: You were me very different.

962
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: Like I'm getting for Father's Day, I've given a ginger

963
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: beer how to make a ginger beer kit. Yeah, I'm

964
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: looking at it real careful because it's like, hang on,

965
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: if I put too much sugar in this, it'll for

966
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: man and then yeah, I can't even like when before

967
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: kombucha was bottled, when mates were making it, you know,

968
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: living at Americas, Like.

969
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 3: I've got kombucha.

970
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: The first I remember sipping the first time I ever

971
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: had kombucha, I was like fucking fingernails and the tabe

972
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 2: really like like because it it was that thing. As

973
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: soon as it hits me, I was like, okay, fascinating. Yeah, yeah,

974
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: that molecule gets to what's like a peanut allergy. Really

975
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: was that molecule gets to my body. It's like I'll

976
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 2: fucking run through a wall to get to a six pack,

977
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: you know.

978
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: And I just had to kind of write it out

979
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: for like half an hour or so.

980
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: It was hard. Well, you've got to know yourself, right,

981
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: this is the part of getting older as you figure

982
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: out these things.

983
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: But when you're thinking about the gambling, right, yeah, how

984
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: does it make you feel that in this country Australians

985
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: lose twenty five billion dollars a year in gambling and

986
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: seven billion.

987
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: Of that goes to the covernment.

988
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fucked.

989
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 3: That's a huge amount of profit of the addiction.

990
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: We have more poker machines in New South Wales than

991
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world other than Las Vegas, and like

992
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: that is fucked to me. And I grew up with

993
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: just this pokey culture, cheeky slap. You know, you go

994
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: to the pub and like, you go to the pub

995
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: and you're eighteen and you have a few beers, your

996
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: brain's not working, and then you get like luin into

997
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: these pokey dens that are designed to take your money.

998
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: And you go to other countries, like even in America,

999
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: like where they have pokes at Vegas you got a pub,

1000
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: there's no there's no Pokey's right, it's where the only

1001
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: country in the world where we put it on every street.

1002
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: Corners because we've got a lot of VopS.

1003
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: I've been in these VIP room you need a room

1004
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: or everywhere I've been in these VP rooms there's very

1005
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: few actually important people in there. Where are they? Theyreid?

1006
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: But there's the thing, Pokey's are the reason we have

1007
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: a state of origin and it's why is that though

1008
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: I've got from Queensland. Yeah, pokeys were legal north of

1009
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: the Tweed, yeah right, they're only legal in New South Wales.

1010
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: So Aubury massive because people from Victoria would drive up

1011
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: to play at the club's there. Twin towns on the

1012
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: Gold Coast was the most humongous RSL ever because it

1013
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: was just full of pokeys and they would bust them

1014
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: down from Brisbane to go and throw their twenty cent

1015
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: pieces in, right they because these league's clubs had so

1016
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: much money, they could buy all that good footy players

1017
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: and they could pay for you know, to come play

1018
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: it since you're or you play at Penrith or whatever

1019
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 2: they had, they could offer them one hundreds of thousand dollars.

1020
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: Queensland was still amateur. So then in nineteen eighty they

1021
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: were like, all right, then let's see who's because all

1022
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: our great great Queensland football is all played in so Wales.

1023
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: So that's where state eberotions started. It's because poke money

1024
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: bought all the had the money to pay play.

1025
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 3: That's why it was like okay, let's go who who

1026
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: debut for what club? Let's go from there. And that's

1027
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 3: where it started.

1028
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: Man's like our history is a strange world. Like I

1029
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: still even remember when like the eder with the Windfield Cup,

1030
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like those are the glory days

1031
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: and they.

1032
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 2: Get a cutaway of Wally havn't a at halftime because

1033
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: it's on the sponsorship.

1034
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: It was a simpler time. But like, yeah, now I

1035
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: think we've got we're having our reckoning with just our

1036
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: unhealthy obsession with gambling. I still I think that our

1037
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: obsession we're doing two up on on Anzac days is

1038
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, the wrong message as well. It was just

1039
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: like oh, let's get drunk and gamble to celebrate the

1040
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: ans acts, all those kinds of things. I'm just like this,

1041
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: there's there's something wrong with us, and it's not getting better.

1042
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: I think we lose more money per person than anywhere

1043
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: in the world than we're the biggest losers.

1044
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 2: Tell us speaking of TV shows, you can't make anymore.

1045
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: So underneath the comedy, this really sounds like you have

1046
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: a you have a message to share with people from

1047
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: a stage.

1048
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: There was something I was quite proud of with my

1049
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: my first show, which was called Jokes about the time

1050
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: I went to prison.

1051
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: How long was the marketing meeting a long time.

1052
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: So my background is in pr and marketing, asher I

1053
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: know how to sell things.

1054
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: I like things that did what they say on the box.

1055
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: That's it. Well, my old rationale was I'm going to

1056
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: go to Melbourne Comedy Festival. No one who's who I am.

1057
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: We can't call the show daffodil or something like that,

1058
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: and I was like, just tell them what it is,

1059
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: you know. So it's about the time went to prison,

1060
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: and so that helps people to figure out whether I

1061
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: wanted to see the show. I always coming to the

1062
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: show and try a minutes and me like, I think

1063
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: this guy's been to jail, you know, I think he's

1064
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: on the wrong thing. And you before I were getting

1065
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: coming in and so yeah, I try to finish the

1066
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: show with the kind of sincere part which was about

1067
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: the fact that I truly believe in the healing power

1068
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: of laughter. It changed my life and I and I

1069
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: and that's what drives me to do comedy, and that

1070
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: I want to kind of use comedy to show people

1071
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: that you can you know, you can screw your life on,

1072
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,919
Speaker 1: but you can come back as long as you don't

1073
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: give up on yourself.

1074
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 2: Laughter has this really beautiful trick of it can subvert

1075
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: a preconception or it can subvert a bias. I definitely

1076
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: believe it goes around the idea of like, oh, all

1077
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 2: fucking Green voters at this, or all fucking Coalition voters

1078
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: of that, if you tell a good enough joke, you

1079
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: can humanize someone and a click of a thing.

1080
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: Oh show how many of these bloody protests piss everyone

1081
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: off by sticking themselves to paintings or like locking themselves

1082
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: on bloody bridges. If they just made someone laugh, they

1083
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: would be much more effective, I think in getting their

1084
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: message out there.

1085
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 3: I think I agree.

1086
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 1: I think that that's certainly happened to me. There's definitely

1087
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: been people either at my shows or line up shows

1088
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: where they've seen me and I've made them laugh and

1089
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: I've made them think, and at the end they've said

1090
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: that I that I've i had an impact on the

1091
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: way that they think about X cons.

1092
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, because it's I mean, we're coming into

1093
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: an election again in Australia at the time us recording this,

1094
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 2: and surely someone's going to start beating their fist about

1095
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: you know, crime.

1096
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: Here or more jails there or blah.

1097
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah, which works because people are afraid

1098
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: and I don't want that happening in my suburb.

1099
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would have more of this.

1100
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: You mentioned, you know, you talked about the rehabilitative, the

1101
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: lack of rehabilitation available in these facilities. What would you

1102
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: like to see changed in the in the way we

1103
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: treat people who you know, we've agreed there's a debt

1104
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: to pay to society for this thing you've done. What

1105
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: would you like to see between the thing and now

1106
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: you back out?

1107
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: Well? I think that the more we treat drug crimes

1108
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: and drugs as a health issue instead of a criminal

1109
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: issue will free up a lot of space in prisons.

1110
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: I think, get these guys help rather than put locking

1111
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: them up, I think is something which would go a

1112
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: long way. But then I think just the peace around

1113
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: education and also support an opportunity when people get out,

1114
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: and also and helping them to connect with other people,

1115
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 1: whether that's the accessibility to their family, friends or other

1116
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: just support networks. I think people have to get out

1117
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: and what and have a reason, a driving force to change, right.

1118
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: I think there's to be something where they can go,

1119
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: oh this life that I can get when I get

1120
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: out is so good that I don't want to fucking

1121
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: do crime, right, that's what it needs to be, and

1122
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: so so I don't think we do any of that. Well,

1123
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: I think it's like, Okay, you've done your time, so yeah,

1124
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: good luck, right, don't digrate the law again. And then

1125
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: they like get out and people can be fine for

1126
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: six months, but then they they have fractured relationships with

1127
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: friends and family, they haven't got a job, they're struggling,

1128
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh fuck this shit like and they

1129
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: forget what jail was like, and so they just go

1130
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: back to their old selves. Oh that's what happens. I

1131
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: remember walking the yard with a guy who I was

1132
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 1: friends with, and I said, oh, man, I'm never coming

1133
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: back here. And he goes and he laughed. They laugh

1134
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: every time, like, oh yeah, because so many people. I

1135
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: was in a yard of eighty guys and I was

1136
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: like one of two guys in there for the first time.

1137
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: Everyone else repeat offenders. Wow. And I said, no, man,

1138
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: like this has been a life changing experience. I'm never

1139
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: going to come back. And he goes and he laughed,

1140
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: and he goes, yeah, give it time, you'll forget wow.

1141
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: And that's truly what a lot of them believe.

1142
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: I can't.

1143
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that it's a cheap thing for you know,

1144
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: as state to pay for someone to be locked up either.

1145
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: No, I forget the numbers, but it's big numbers per person,

1146
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: and it's even more in juvenile detention centers for child

1147
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: because they haven't think they had to have a certain

1148
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: number of guards per per group, not a member of children.

1149
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's even bigger and we're locking up kids

1150
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: all the time.

1151
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you get asked to go and speak to

1152
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: you know, young man? You said you've done gigs at

1153
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: youth detentions. You do you do gigs like for high

1154
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: schools and stuff like that.

1155
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: I haven't done any of that yet. I mean, my

1156
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: redemption story is still very new, but I'm sure those

1157
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: things are coming, right. I think that. Yeah, I got

1158
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: a message the other day about someone wanted to come

1159
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: me to come in and chat at a rehab center.

1160
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, I'm getting a lot

1161
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: of messages now because my book just came out a

1162
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago that people that that's resonating with

1163
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: people a lot. So I think that those opportunities will

1164
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: come more and more of the next few years as

1165
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: I continue to not break the law.

1166
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: But as you mentioned.

1167
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: You you have seen what you've built and you're not

1168
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 2: willing to risk this life that you're creating.

1169
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: Totally not. But if I run out of comedy, if

1170
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: I run the jokes, sure at some point I may

1171
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: need to go back to jail for more material.

1172
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 3: I disagree. You just go for the No, just go

1173
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 3: for the classics. You just just get married and about

1174
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: just to hear about the wife of kids.

1175
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: Fall the chain gag still work. Yeah, I'm joking.

1176
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 3: What's dating? What's dating like?

1177
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 2: Like I thought I was like when I was Tinder

1178
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: for like the worst nine months of my life when

1179
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: I was dating, and you know, sell people, I'm divorced

1180
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: at the time, I'm married again. Now it was like,

1181
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: what's it like dating? Uh?

1182
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: Well, I have a girlfriend now who's a comedian based

1183
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: in Perth. But there were It certainly was a bit

1184
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: of a roller coaster. A lot of girls will be

1185
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: keen until I give them my backstory around and they're like,

1186
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: they're like, hell, no, run for the hills. But I was.

1187
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: I thought it was important to be upfront with that away, right,

1188
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: because they don't want to. I wanted someone to like

1189
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: me for me.

1190
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 3: They're going to find out eventually.

1191
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I spent the time in a gated community recently,

1192
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: so all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I thought

1193
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: it was quite important to be out in front. But

1194
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: then you know, there'd be other girls that were weirdly

1195
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: into it, maybe too much like a bucket list thing.

1196
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Wow, so I don't know you get

1197
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: all sorts.

1198
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: Look, mate, I could really chat with you for quite

1199
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: quite a while, but you know you're a busy man.

1200
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 2: You've got shit to do. Time is important to you.

1201
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: Are you mane?

1202
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 3: Time is important to you? I would have you know,

1203
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 3: I would ask. The final thing I'd ask you is

1204
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 3: that there was a point in my life.

1205
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 2: It was funny because I was going through some old

1206
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: footage last night and found I found this footage of

1207
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: us walking around New York on September September twelve. We

1208
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: were there when I went down, but I got PTSD

1209
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 2: off that it was very weird for a long time.

1210
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: But there's another thing called I wish I didn't realize,

1211
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: but it's had to happen. Postumatic growth. Would you say

1212
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: that you've experienced stuff like that. Would you experience would

1213
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: you have experienced growth?

1214
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: Because of what happened and pretty much every way, Yeah,

1215
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: it was. It was life changing for me. I feel

1216
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: like a completely different, better version of myself. I think

1217
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: I'm I've got a bigger heart now. I think I'm

1218
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: more patient with people. I think I appreciate things more.

1219
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: I try to appreciate the small things in life more

1220
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: because I remember just how good it was just to

1221
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 1: have a fresh egg when I got out of jail,

1222
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: or a good cup of coffee like this, things like that,

1223
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: and just like relationships. How grateful I am for all

1224
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: those kind of things. And also just the fact that

1225
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: when I felt like I lost everything, I didn't lose everything,

1226
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: but he felt like I lost my fiance, my home,

1227
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: my business, my dog, and you know, I thought I'd

1228
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: lost everything, but I was like, hold on, you still

1229
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: got a lot. I still had my health, and I

1230
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: had my friends and family that stuck by me. And

1231
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: I had my sense of humor. And that says a

1232
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: humor probably saved my life in many ways as well.

1233
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:18,879
Speaker 1: And so now I get to live this positive life.

1234
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: I get to travel around saying insane things in your

1235
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: microphone each night and make people laugh. And I'm just like,

1236
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: if I had to go through all that pain like

1237
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: again to live the life I'm happy now, I would

1238
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: do it one hundred times over because I feel so

1239
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: fortunate that I found this path. It's crazy.

1240
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly hope that because of your work, people

1241
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: start thinking differently about because you're probably the first prisoner

1242
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: that a lot of people they probably met prisons or

1243
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: x cons, but they would never have disclosed, you know,

1244
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: because of the stigma associated.

1245
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 3: So you're probably the first person that people.

1246
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: I did have a guy DM me on Instagram recently

1247
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: to say that he went to JA and got out

1248
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: and started his life over again and he has successful

1249
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: business now and he's never spoken about it. Most people

1250
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: he knows, never knows, never knew that he went to prison.

1251
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: And because of me, he started doing a public speaking

1252
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: course because he wants to start talking about it and

1253
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: letting people into that part of his life. And so

1254
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: that felt amazing to hear that, Wow, you can I

1255
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: can have that impact.

1256
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 3: On Yeah, that's lovely. I mean is that or like

1257
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 3: a one way jet say ticket to Darwinning.

1258
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 2: No, Michael's my name. I met a lot of election

1259
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,919
Speaker 2: Darwen with just one name. I've been in a while

1260
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 2: with Tazzy. Tazzy's like a lot of people who like

1261
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 2: what's but Linda Okay, okay, yeah yeah, and some of

1262
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: them are.

1263
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: On my shows.

1264
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 3: I used to become a man. I really appreciate it.

1265
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: My pleasure man chat.

1266
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 3: That was Andrew Hamilton.

1267
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: His new Melbourne's National Comedy Festival show is on sale

1268
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,959
Speaker 2: right now. You can go to Comedy Festival dot com

1269
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: dot Au just typeing Andrew Hamilton and you'll see his show.

1270
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 3: He's has probably wrapped at Adelaide Fringe by now.

1271
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: I might still be on, but then there's also the

1272
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: Sydney Comedy Festival and such and say Lake. He's a

1273
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 2: very interesting guy, very very interesting guy. I'll put the

1274
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: link in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening.

1275
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: He'd make a really good story club. Actually, yeah, I

1276
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: should text him. Yeah, I'll text him, see what he

1277
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: wants to do.

1278
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 3: Gotta be fun.

1279
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: I'll let you know because the next show is April thirteenth,

1280
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 2: but there's one in May after that because we do it.

1281
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 3: Every month and I've got it's a little look at

1282
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: for voging guests.

1283
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: But yes, that's going to be good. I'll put the

1284
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: link in the show notes for that. You can always

1285
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: find it on the substack. Also the substack for this show.

1286
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Adam Buncher who helped me

1287
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: make this show today, and thanks to Dell Fordham who's

1288
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: been fantastic to work with.

1289
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 3: You're excellent.

1290
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: I'll see you back here on Monday.