1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Property Pendulum, brought to you by Domain 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: and Fear and Greed, the podcast that tells you which 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: way the property market is going to swing and how 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: to make the most of it. I'm Michael Thompson and 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Alice Staltz, national Property editor at Domain 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: and one of Australia's foremost experts on all things real estate, 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: known to audiences of course right around the country, for 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: a work on nine including the Block. Hello Alice, Hello Michael, Alice. 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: I'm talking about a topic that I love talking about, renovations. 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: I don't like doing them because I'm completely hopeless when 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: it comes to actually doing anything kind of physical or practical, 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: but I love to talk about it. And the big, 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: big question that we are hoping to answer today is 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: how much you should spend on your renovation. Is this 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: something that changes depending on kind of whether you are 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: renovating for yourself to live in a property, or if 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: you are renovating to sell the property quite quickly, or 18 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: I suppose a third category of kind, whether you're renovating 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: to hold onto this property is a long term investment. 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: Does the price that you should be willing to spend vary. 21 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: It changes it a lot thinking about how you're going 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: to use that property. So I think if you are 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: going to make an investment property out of it, really 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: you're wanting to ensure you're renovating in a way that 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 2: is done, you know, to sort of endure hard wearing 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: and good quality finishes. For example, if you're wanting to 27 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 2: sort of flip the property and sell it soon after, 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 2: if you're sort of that sort of investor who's charging 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: it up, reconfiguring it all and then selling it, that's 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: another way because really then those sort of people when 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: they're renovating and doing it sort of to make it 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: quite esthetically pleasing for the moment, and that often then 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: people will employ tricks to sort of not necessarily do 34 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: that renovation with as much substance as what they might 35 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: use if they're renovating the property of for themselves. 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: So it's more of a cosmetic kind of thing. 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: It's off and they'll be off and lots of white paint, 38 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: lots of clean lines, and it all kind of looks 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: good pretty quickly on the eye, and it makes people's 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: thumb stop when they're looking for a property online, and 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: that's that's kind of enough for them. 42 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Does a backfire on the buyer then kind of if 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: a couple of years or generally, you would go through 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: a property and you would know that it has been 45 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: kind of a tarted up to use your term for resale. 46 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: Well, Michael, that's why when you're in a STUEP buyer 47 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: you do your research, because in your due diligence, you'll 48 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: have that property inspection report done and they'll be the 49 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: ones that are like they've literally just painted over the 50 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: cracks in the walls and we can see the house 51 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: is shifting or whatnot. So that is exactly why you 52 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: have to peel out the layers when it comes to 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: buying and property so you don't fall for those tricks. Ok. 54 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: So yes, the buyer, it will catch up with the 55 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: buyer eventually. Third of all is that idea of people 56 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: are renovating for themselves. Now, that's when things get tricky 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: because of course, many of us can justify anything when 58 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 2: it comes to thinking, oh gosh, if I had that 59 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 2: beautiful you know, swish oven, I could be a gourmet chef. 60 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: You know, I could really live my best life and 61 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: suddenly be Nigella Lawson in the kitchen. So that's what 62 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: people are thinking about. So you need to ensure that 63 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: you're aware of if you're run avuty for yourself, how 64 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: long you'll be in that house, for how long it 65 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: has to last you and your family with a situation, 66 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: and then when it comes to selling it, how will 67 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: it be sort of received in the market. 68 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: Are there certain rooms within a house that are going 69 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: to give you more bang for your buck? I'm thinking, 70 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: and I might be wrong here. One thing that you'll 71 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: learn quite quickly about me alis is I like to 72 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: make a lot of assumptions, and generally they're about fifty 73 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: percent wrong. But the kitchen and the bathroom, to me, 74 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: are two rooms that when you are scrolling through listings 75 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: right that they stand out because they can either look 76 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: fantastic or they can really really really data property. 77 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: So your instinct there is basically correct. Because if you 78 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: buy a place and the kitchen needs fixing, that's going 79 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: to be the most expensive area of the house to renovate, 80 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: and then the second of all will be the bathroom. 81 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: So they're costly areas and they're also the most high 82 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: use areas of any house. 83 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: Can I get any kind of ballpark figures from you? 84 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: Kind of a kitchen for instance, is there anywhere can 85 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: you give me some indication of what that would constant? 86 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: And this is self interest really now governing this, because 87 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: that would be the number one thing that we would 88 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: renovate in our house. Yeah, I've got my pen out, 89 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm ready to take notes to you. 90 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: Are you ready? You might want to sit down? You 91 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: want to sit down? For the price? 92 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 3: How many zeros am I adding to this one? 93 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: Look, a kitchen renovation rule of thumb is that sort 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: of around the pandemic period, we're saying around thirty thousand 95 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: dollars for a kitchen renovation. However, we do know that 96 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: prices have gone up and up and up, and even 97 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: though they are now stabilizing in the renovating market, they 98 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: have still stayed there. So the rule of some really 99 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: today is thirty to forty thousand dollars. However, the good 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: news is there are very clever ways to upgrade a 101 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 2: kitchen that needn't cost that much. What that means is 102 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: retaining the carcass of the cupboards, for example, and just 103 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: updating the bench tops and the splash back and the 104 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: outside of the cupboards. So if you did that, your 105 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: kitchen would look completely different. But everything would fundamentally remain 106 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: in the same spot. So when you're looking at a 107 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: property or you're looking to renovate yourself, understand the compromise 108 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: that you may or may not have to make when 109 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: it comes to renovating, Because if you are an incredibly 110 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: tight budget, perhaps just throwing the bench tops and the 111 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: cupboards and putting lovely new handles on is the most 112 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: efficient way to do it, and that will probably cost 113 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: you around ten thousand dollars, which is a lot less 114 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: than doing a whole kitchen in itself, and. 115 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: That would deliver you both kind of a better environment 116 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: to live in and also increase the value. Then, kind 117 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: of further down the track, is there a rule of 118 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: thumb for kind of how much of a return you 119 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: would want to see on your investment. So if you 120 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: were to spend let's go with the upper end of 121 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: that guide, say forty thousand, would you expect it to 122 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: deliver an eighty thousand dollar kind of bump when you're 123 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: selling your place? Like, is it a two for one 124 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: deal here? 125 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: That is the ideal way you should be looking at it. 126 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: If every dollar you invest you get two dollars back, 127 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: that is the ideal way of looking at it. However, 128 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: as with anything with property, I think it can be 129 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: quite subjective. 130 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: So saying there's variables here, goodness me, what a surprise. 131 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: So inconvenient, isn't it. But if I'm renovating my kitchen 132 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: and I do whatever I do to it, you might 133 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 2: walk in as a buyer to my house and think, well, 134 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 2: I don't really want to tip anyaki grill. I don't 135 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: want a double oven, I don't want to steam of it, 136 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: I don't want two dishwatchs, and I certainly don't want 137 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: a butler's pantry. And then all of a sudden, what 138 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: I've spent on it is of little value to you 139 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: as the buyer. So you have to be very mindful 140 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: of that. And that's why you need to sort of 141 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 2: work out are you renovating for yourself or renovating it 142 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 2: to a bit as a messing property, or to flip it. 143 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: So you're saying, then, really, there are some good kind 144 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: of principles of go basic, go clean, and go things 145 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: that would have broader universal appeal rather than say the 146 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: quite niche examples of the teppanyaki grill. 147 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: I love that. 148 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that would have kind of buyers just 149 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: falling over themselves to pick up a kitchen with a 150 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: tepannyaki grill. 151 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: Again, that could be an assumption. 152 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: That's wrong, Michael. You're not close enough to how real 153 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: Australians wish they were living their lives at the moment. 154 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: I mean people see these things as like status symbols 155 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: now in Australia, like you know, and full disclosure, I'm 156 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: not at all a fan of a teppanyaki grill, and 157 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: nor do I want one either. However, people see that 158 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: as a bell and whistle on a house and those 159 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: sort of features as a new level of status, luxury achievement, 160 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: Like it's mind blowing. And because our kitchens now are 161 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: everything in a home, they're off in the dining room, 162 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: the living room, the study, the work from homes where 163 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: you might have a drink, where you then might have 164 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: a cup of tea with your mother in law, like 165 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: they are the place that everything happens. So people can 166 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: very easily justify spending everything on that space and going 167 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: a bit crazy with it. 168 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: I have young kids, so I had to see a 169 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: tepanyaki grill as a gigantic first aid hazard. 170 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: You're a very sensible person. 171 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: I like to think, so, I like to think. 172 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: So the kitchen, Okay, we know that's kind of thirty 173 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: to forty thousand, just a rough ballpark figure, but there 174 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: is the kind of potentially cheaper ways to do it 175 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: for ten k, which is maybe more of a superficial 176 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: kind of way rather than a full do you say 177 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: retaining the carcass? You said that before, didn't you? Was 178 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: it the carcass such a lovely image. 179 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: The carcass is the shell obviously all the cupboards and whatnot. 180 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: But it's a wonderful way because you know, laminae lamonacs 181 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: and that doesn't cost that much. And you know, if 182 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: you've walking into a kitchen that's got a seventies design 183 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: and it's some sort of you know, that sort of 184 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: cream beige we saw a lot of during that period, 185 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: you can easily refresh that with sort of the color 186 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: of the moment that's sort of sage green for example, 187 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: or is very easily put over the top, and the 188 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 2: expense is quite minimal as opposed to rippring out all 189 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: those cupboards and putting in new ones. 190 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: What about the bathroom? That is there a ballpark figure 191 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: for that one? And I cannot imagine a way to 192 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: do anything in the bathroom cheaply, because it feels as 193 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: though as soon as you are doing anything with water, 194 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: it just the cost just goes through the roof. 195 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 2: Oh it's a nightmare because you just look at a 196 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: bathroom and think, oh, it's just a small room, how 197 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: bad could it be, And it's like, it's bad in 198 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 2: terms of the cost of it. So the rule of 199 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: thumb bathrooms is around twenty to twenty five thousand dollars, 200 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 2: which when you think about how small that space often is, 201 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: I just think is always such an eye watering amount. 202 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 2: But basically you also need to, if you're working with 203 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: an architect, have a built look at over those plans 204 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: to ensure that estimated cost is right, because sometimes architects 205 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: are interior designers, as wonderful as they are and worth 206 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: their weight in gold, have perhaps grander visions of what 207 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: it will cost compared to what it will actually be 208 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: in reality. So always get a builder is sort of 209 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: verify that cost when you're exploring these options. But again, 210 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: tiling expensive, any moving a shower or a bath expensive, 211 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: anything involves waterproofing revoltingly expensive. But then you learn though 212 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: all these tricks like use large format tiles for example, 213 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: don't tile all the way up to the ceiling for example, 214 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: you know, like do near double vanity? Probably not do 215 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: need a bidet? I don't think so. 216 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: Probably put that up there with the tepanaki is probably 217 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: one of the status symbols that really really not super essential. 218 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: We could have a whole other segment on these crazy 219 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: over the top features that people have in homes these days, 220 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: like steam showers an our thing and anyway, we'll leave 221 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: that on for another day, Michael. But you know, but 222 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: for example, like heated tower rails for example, have only 223 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: become very normal in a lot of homes, or underfloor 224 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: heating in the bathroom has become kind of like, oh yeah, 225 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: of course I'll have that. And I often think, wow, 226 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: are we like MP the Shark ourselves here in terms 227 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: of that we're now at this point where we're just 228 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 2: really dilling up our homes and spending money unnecessarily that 229 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: we may not actually get back. 230 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: You know how when you're a kid, there are certain 231 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: things that you see in people's houses that you see 232 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: them and you assume that then that person was rich. 233 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: Right for me, that symbol of wealth of having made 234 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: it was always the dual vanity to have two sinks 235 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: in your bathroom. If I walked into a bathroom and 236 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: there were two sinks, I'm like, oh, this person's loaded. 237 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: So for me, you're talking about Teppanyaki grills and various things. 238 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: That is the status symbol for me. If I can 239 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: get two sinks side by side, I am done. 240 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's funny how it just takes you back to 241 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: that idea of what is a luxury home. I guess 242 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: for me it was the spa bath, and the spa 243 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: bath was always that next level of like oh wow, 244 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: you know, and that's interesting. A lot of these features 245 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: now are like underfore heating, heated tower rails, marble. A 246 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: lot of these things are sort of more that idea 247 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: of the quiet luxury that you can't often sort of 248 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: see until you use the space. So it's interesting. But 249 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: I do think it's important to if you are under it, 250 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: if you do have budget constraints, just to be mindful 251 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: of how crazy you can quickly get. 252 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: Can I ask you? 253 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: Then? 254 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: So we covered kind of bathrooms and kitchens, the really 255 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 1: expensive ones, but also the kind of high impact spaces. 256 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: What about outdoors? Does a garden renovation count for anything, 257 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: because again self interest, that is probably the one space 258 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: in which I feel like I could actually contribute and 259 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: deliver some value. 260 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: Oh, I love that enthusiasm you've got, Michael. The caution 261 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: issue is that garden can be so expensive if you 262 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: do any kind of paving, a deck, even like an 263 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: integrative barbecue these days, don't even mention a pool, but 264 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 2: all these things can cost a lot. So I think 265 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: this is the way I think you should approach it. 266 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: Have a plan, a roadmap of what you would like 267 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: that garden to be over the years to come for 268 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: you and your situation, and then do a piecemeal approach 269 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: to it bit by bit, like get the boundary trees in, 270 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: for example, and you could do that yourself, and then 271 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: realize you have to do a bit of paving. You 272 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 2: need to get someone to do that, which will be expensive. 273 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 2: Save for that, then get the paving done. But if 274 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: you have that sort of architecture of the garden in place, 275 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: it makes it a lot easier to just do a 276 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 2: garden bit by bit, because that's the benefit of a garden. 277 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: You can do it slowly, unlike a house renovation, which 278 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: is kind of hard to endure. If you're doing one 279 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: room year by year. 280 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and in terms of then other rooms, bedrooms and 281 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: things like that, are they going to deliver a return, 282 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: a decent return or is it less than say those 283 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: high impact spaces of the bathroom in the kitchen. 284 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: It's certainly less, but they are still important. And that's 285 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: because if you have a beautiful bathroom in kitchen, but 286 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: you haven't touched the bedrooms, that person buying that house, 287 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: if you're looking at someone buying it, they still have 288 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: to do work to the property. So be mindful of 289 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: you need that continuity throughout a house, and ideally all 290 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: things are fairly equal within the house. I do think though, 291 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 2: if you've done the bathroom in the kitchen, you just think, 292 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: I think I'm almost done here in terms of what 293 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: I can actually afford. The other option is you can 294 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: also just paint the house one color, a nice soft 295 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: gray of an antique white or something all throughout will 296 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: just freshen it up incredibly. And you can also look 297 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: at things like this idea of putting new floorboards down, 298 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: or parquetry or engineered floorboards can actually be another way 299 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 2: to dramatically improve the feel of a property or recarpeting 300 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: the rooms. So there are little tricks you can do 301 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: which are a lot easier and more accessible in terms 302 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: of that price point. But again, do it simply and 303 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: don't overinvest in them. 304 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: Over investing that is something that I needed to ask 305 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: you about because we're nearly out of time here. But 306 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: over capitalizing on a renovation here, what exactly is it? 307 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: And how do you avoid it? Is it by just 308 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: by sticking to what you know and using that rule 309 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: of thumb of kind of you are looking for a 310 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: two to one kind of for every dollar you invest 311 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: you are aiming to get two dollars back, and focusing 312 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: on those kind of high value rooms that you know 313 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: are going to actually deliver you that return. 314 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 2: It is all those things, but I think it's also 315 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: being aware of the area you're living in. So when 316 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: I see houses that have been over capitalized on, often 317 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: they're done in a way that doesn't suit the area 318 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: that they're living in. So you're suddenly creating a property 319 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: that people don't want in that area. You've made a 320 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: family home in the inner city where there are no 321 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: families living, for example, You've put in kids rooms, rumpus rooms, whatnot, 322 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: And it's just not there's no one there to meet 323 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,479 Speaker 2: the demand for that. So when it comes over capitalizing, 324 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: it happens because people just get carried away and they 325 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: create a home purely for themselves. So if you can 326 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: afford to, if you can afford to make your ideal 327 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: bespoke home, knock yourself out. However, be aware that when 328 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: it comes to selling, you may not make that money 329 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: back when it comes to transferring the title to someone else, 330 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: purely because you've created something that basically no one else wants. 331 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: And that's the issue when you're renovating it, even if 332 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 2: you're not going to sell anytime soon, ensuring that you're 333 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: not over capitalizing in the long run. 334 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: So really you need to take a step back, and 335 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: you need to look at the bigger picture of the 336 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: overall suburb and not get so caught up in just 337 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: what you're doing for each individual room. You actually need 338 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: to take it, take a broader look, almost a suburb 339 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: wide approach, and really the sweet spot would be to 340 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: find a style that you like, that you love, that 341 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: you could live in, but that it fits with your 342 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: local area and hopefully is going to have broader appeal 343 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: rather than just you. So we're not talking about kind 344 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: of bright pink feature walls and things. We're talking about 345 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: kind of perhaps your more timeless styles. And clearly you 346 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: can tell I have very little idea and very little style, 347 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: So it's a bit rich for me to talk about 348 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: timeless styles. I would be entirely relying on other people's 349 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: advice for this. 350 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: That is exactly right, should I confess that I actually 351 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: have a pink kitchen? Now, Mike, you've just lost all 352 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: faith in me, haven't you. But I think, oh, dear, 353 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: I think it's important to ensure that you can do 354 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: crazy things like that. However, you have to go into 355 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: it knowing that if I sell, I may need to 356 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: twist things around a bit. We see its actually happen 357 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: on the block a bit like often they'll make houses 358 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 2: that aren't child friendly even though they've got five bedrooms, 359 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: and you think, well, if you've got a five bedroom house, 360 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: no really younger person without kids will probably want a 361 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: place like that. So it's just important to think about 362 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: who that BUI will eventually be and will it suit 363 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 2: the needs of that person. 364 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: That is a fantastic guide to renovations and renovations is 365 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: one of those topics that we could fill kind of 366 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: twenty episodes on and I suspect it's something that we 367 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: probably would like to do because clearly the success of 368 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: the block shows that there is an enormous appetite for 369 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: DIY and for renovations, and particularly when you were taking 370 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: those three different approaches, whether it's renovating for yourself, renovating 371 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: to resell, or renovating as kind of a long term investment, 372 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: there are so many different options and hopefully we've done 373 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to give ourselves a mark here of an 374 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: admirable effort today giving an overview. 375 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 2: And we didn't even get into the next issue of 376 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: open plan living when renovating, so we'll save that one 377 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 2: for another day. 378 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 3: That one sounds meaty. 379 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: I'll look forward to that and hopefully we can discuss 380 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: retaining the carcass once again. That's a meaty topic all 381 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: of its own. 382 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Alice, Thank you, Michael. 383 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: That was real estate expert Alice Staltz, national property editor 384 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: at Domain and I'm Michael Thompson. Make sure you're following 385 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: the podcast and we'll be back next week with another 386 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: episode of the Property Pendulum, brought to you by Domain 387 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: and Fear and Greed, the podcast that tells you which 388 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: way the property market is going to swing, how to 389 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: make the most of it.