WEBVTT - Body of Evidence | 2 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:04.560 Okay. 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.680 This interview has been conducted in the Epping Police Station, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:14.400 Victoria at two minutes to four to agree with the 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.919 time I might watch yes, okay PM on Sunday, the 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:23.319 eighteenth day of December twenty eleven. Could you tell me 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:27.400 what you can remember from nineteen ninety three relection to 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.600 your father's disappearance, just. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:31.880 So he came down to see me in hospital and 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:33.080 for the last time I was sorry. 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.720 In a Melbourne police station, two detectives sit across from 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.520 Leanne Phillips, one of Les Ball's daughters. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:41.919 Okay, and when. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.640 Was that member? I think was the Wednesday night? Wednesday. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.960 It's all pretty figue, Okay. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:55.240 We do understand it was eighteen years ago and we're 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.040 just asking for the truth from what you can remember, 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.080 and we don't want you to make anything. 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.920 Up in case you missed it. In that police recorded 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.720 audio that was later handed to the coroner, the Wednesday 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.240 night Leanne is being questioned about is the twenty first 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.600 of April nineteen ninety three, the night Leanne claims her 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:19.680 father Les visited her in a Brisbane hospital. Leanne told 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.760 police that around eight thirty pm she was on a 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.280 public phone in the lobby of the seventh floor of 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:29.480 the Princess Alexandra Hospital. She was trying to call home 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.800 on the public payphone when Les suddenly emerged from the lifts. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.399 He'd apparently come straight from the train station after making 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.000 the more than twenty four hour journey from Townsville. They 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.440 sat down on some chairs in the waiting area and 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.480 had a brief chat, mainly about how his ex wife, Margaret, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.000 who was staying at the Phillips house, was driving him crazy. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.360 He only stayed for around thirty minutes and told Leanne 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.760 he was going to visit Lachelle, his youngest daughter and 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.720 Leanne's half sister, on the Sunshine Coast. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.880 How was he intending to give there? Do what? 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.760 Only the police already know. The signature on Les's train 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:16.000 ticket was forged. 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.480 Why would the ticket be forged though if he was, Oh, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.280 I can't answer can incident. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.120 Someone wanted to make it look like he traveled to Brisbane. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.359 I don't know why anybody would want to do that. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.880 They know that Les never boarded the train. 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.480 Has someone told you to say he came to visit 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.000 in the hospital, nobody has. 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:39.480 I know. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:40.840 I saw my part friend. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:46.919 Hospital because we believe he didn't attend the hospital. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:48.760 I'm sorry he did. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.440 This isn't the first time Leanne has been questioned about 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.480 the night she says her dad visited her in hospital, 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.600 and it won't be the last. In fact, this visit 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.480 has been heavily scrutinized over the years by police and 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:13.680 two separate coroners, decades apart, because all other evidence suggests 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:20.440 that visit never happened and that Leanne was mistaken. I'm 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.040 Joe Townsend. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.280 And I'm Calm Deness. We're trying to figure out who 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.080 killed Les Baul. This is perfect alibi. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:41.360 Change. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.280 The most important task for police in a homicide inquiry 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:03.880 is establishing when the victim was last seen alive. For 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.880 that reason, Detective Noll Powers focused on the supposed hospital visit. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.440 Lezard apparently come down to visit her, and she hadn't 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:14.920 seen or heard of him since then. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:20.920 Even putting aside the forgery and Les not boarding the train, Well. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.719 He didn't make dawn down to Brisbane, but don't if 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.440 he didn't go on the train and then so must 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:26.080 have brought him down. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.400 There were issues with Leanne's story. Leanne said lez had 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.159 come straight from the train, but the train he was 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.160 booked on arrived in Brisbane at three point fifty pm, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.320 nearly five hours before he was supposed to have visited her. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.800 Leanne also told police that she and lez sat on 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.919 chairs in a public waiting area outside the lifts on 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.279 Level seven. Police checked there were no chairs in that area. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.880 It just didn't seem to add up. We spoke to 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.719 a lady who was occupying the room with Leanne and 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:05.480 she said Leanne did not receive any visitors in hospital 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:06.240 on that day. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.200 Then there was the big one. Why would Lesbie and 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.440 Brisbane visiting Leanne at all when he should have been 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.719 in Cardwell finalizing the purchase of his home. 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.599 He put a seven thousand dollar cash deposit. Now he 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.000 risked losing that money. 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.559 I can't answer your question. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.680 In some instances, In the majority of instances, people will 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:33.720 go all right, well, they'll modify this story or change it, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.039 or just simply go all right, well it didn't happen, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.920 and this is really what happened. So when you're presented 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.240 with a certain number of facts that disprove what you're saying, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.640 then either you'll get a new version or the person 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.080 will admit to either being wrong or manufacturing that version. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.080 But as instance, no, he visited me in hospital that 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:54.039 was at full stop. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.080 We don't have the tapes of Nol's interview with Leanne 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.200 from nineteen ninety three, but when you hear Detectives interviewing 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.440 Leanne in twenty eleven, you can see what he means. 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.520 She's sticking to her version of events. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.480 So this is a copy of the trained detail report. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.240 And this is why we know your father did not 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:14.920 have to train. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.919 Oh yeah, they said that's Peper didn't see it in 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:20.520 the seat that he sound like I did. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.040 He far to show Yeah, So do you want me 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.160 to show you explain. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:25.440 That I member of there? 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:26.520 Have you? Okay? 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.840 So for the purpose that has said anywhere, I mean, well. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.680 We don't think so in the fact that Towns will 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:38.040 to Brisbane travel football far to show fts, it's marked 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.560 as well, and that I'm going to show you. These 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:49.920 are their handwriting from your father. That's a handwriting from 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.320 your father, and that's the forgery. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:54.760 That's what's on the ticket. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:58.400 I can't I don't know why. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.960 I can't answer, cannot explain why. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:02.520 It's a forgery. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.120 Even when confronted with the fact that Les's ticket was 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.720 forged and he never boarded the train to Brisbane. Leanne's 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.480 story never wavered. She even offered what she said was 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.720 physical proof that Les had visited her in hospital a 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:27.040 losing lotto ticket. It had been purchased in Townsville using 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:32.440 Les's card on Tuesday, the twentieth of April. According to Leanne, 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.840 Les gave it to her the next evening when he 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.440 visited her in hospital. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.080 So can you remember your father giving this to it? 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.120 I remember fine on the side of the draw, and 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.120 I'm pretty sure that he could put it there. 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.160 You're pretty sure he put it there? 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:48.600 I think so, yeah, I'm. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.400 Pretty sure, Thanky. It's one of those things that don't 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:57.160 really stack up. And suppose that your curiosity is piqued 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.520 even more because you just think, well, that is quite unusual. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.640 It didn't stack up because we know police believe Les 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.240 never made it to hospital to visit Leanne. If that's right, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.600 there's no way he could have given her the lotto ticket. 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.000 Someone used Les's pension card to collect his train ticket 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:20.320 and forge his signature. Maybe that same person used Less's 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.120 card to buy this lotto ticket. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:27.680 So you know, again, there's one version that doesn't add up. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.520 So cal this is the big question mark in this case. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:38.559 Who's right here, the police or Lianne, Because after investigating it, 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.520 police are certain Les didn't make that trip to Brisbane, 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.199 but Leanne is sure she saw Lez in hospital. 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.400 Well, a coroner looked into this nearly thirty years after 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.240 Les went missing, and we're going to cover that in 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.839 detail in a later episode. But the corona found that 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.800 Leanne had a genuinely held but mistaken belief that her 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:00.560 father visited her hospital. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:05.000 So, in other words, the coroner's saying, I believe you, you're 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.120 not lying, but it didn't happen exactly. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.520 What about the lotto ticket then, Well, the coroner basically 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.640 found that Leanne had nothing to do with it. There 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.360 was no evidence to suggest she has. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.239 So the coroner determined that Les never visited her in hospital, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.880 he never handed her the lotto ticket which Leanne presented 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.800 to police, but also that Leanne is a credible witness 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.240 and genuinely believes she's telling the truth. So the short 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.960 story is that Wednesday visit at the hospital didn't happen, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:37.040 couldn't have happened. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.560 Having proven that Les never made it to Brisbane, police 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.720 were working off a theory that the reason he missed 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.240 his house settlement was because by Monday, the nineteenth of April, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:54.319 he was dead. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.320 I've got no doubt that before the nineteenth, and even 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.400 before the twentieth, he'd met his demise. And I'll say 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.800 that now you know, there's no doubt about it that 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.520 Lesbil had been killed prior to that. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.760 Day, and so police focused on Sunday, the eighteenth of April, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.880 the last day Les was seen alive. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.240 Now remember Les was. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.480 Living in the garage of the Phillips home. There was 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.760 David Phillips in the house. That's his son in law, 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.560 the ex cop. Before moving to Queensland, he served ten 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.720 years as a police officer in Victoria, five years as 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.760 a detective and he was. 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.160 A good detective too. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.439 He worked on the major crime and Armed robbery squads 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:41.040 and received multiple commendations. Also living there was Margaret Phillips, 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:45.080 Les's first ex wife, and David and Leanne's four kids. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.040 David says he left the house on Sunday, the eighteenth 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.720 of April with his mother in law, Margaret and all 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.600 of David and Leanne's kids and when they returned at 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:01.800 two pm that day, Les wasn't home, David noticed Les's 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.520 car and trailer were gone, all of his belongings were gone, 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.360 and the fridge had been cleared out. Here's what David 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.200 told police about that day in a twenty eleven interview. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.400 We've got our hands on a copy of that interview 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.040 that was tabled at the inquest, and this is the 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.200 first time that his side of the story has been 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:28.840 publicly aired. Listen carefully because audio recordings back then were terrible. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.640 David, can you start your fallen correct name David Jeremy Phillips, 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.319 and your data booths before six fifty things? And where 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:37.880 were you born? 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:38.280 No. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.559 In the video, the camera is focused on David's profile. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.120 He's wearing a light blue polo. Still has a full 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.080 head of hair, but it's gone white, and he's wearing glasses. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.040 Do what we intend to question you about today? It's 0:11:55.160 --> 0:12:01.680 the disappearance to suspect murder Upper Towns of ninety ninety three. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.240 The detectives tell David he's being asked about the disappearance 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.400 and suspected murder of Les, and David's answers are curt 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.480 and a little bit sarcastic, which didn't expect. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.679 You about just blom all right, you've just explained them. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.079 The police remind David of his rights. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:26.480 Basically, you have the right answer if you say I 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.120 can you understand that's the one. 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.320 As a former coop himself, this routine should be very 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.040 familiar to David. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:38.400 Were building supersplas and hungry Jerks. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.760 When you're so weird, he you've go the kings and mo, yeah, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:47.080 the go. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.400 You remember seeing lest All. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:55.199 Then, in case you missed that, David says, the family 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.960 were out visiting display homes. This was a regular outing 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.520 for the family. Lez had put a deposit on a 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.680 block of land and the Phillips were planning on building 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.960 a family home on it. They stopped at Hungry Jackson. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:13.320 When they returned home, Les was gone. Inside the house, 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.559 David and his mother in law, Margaret found a note 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.760 from Les saying a family friend called Tony Hoyer had 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.160 called by, although that note was never handed into police, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:30.319 so police spoke to Tony. He told detectives he'd called 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.720 around to the Phillips house in the afternoon with a 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.200 bag of prawns. He worked in the seafood industry and 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.800 would often join the Phillips for dinner. According to Tony, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.680 when he got to the Phillips household, Les was the 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.840 only one there, putting a suitcase into the boot of 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:51.000 his car. Lez's bright blue homemade trailer was there and 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.720 it appeared as if it was about to be hitched 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:54.480 to the car. 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.199 Just said he was packing stuff under the boot and 0:13:58.240 --> 0:13:59.640 he told him he was on his way down to 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.360 Brisbane to go and see Leanne. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.040 Tony asked if he could go inside to put the 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.920 prawns in the fridge, but Les said no, he'd already 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:08.840 locked up the house. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.400 It Morls gave us a start point. You develop a 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:21.560 timeline and these investigations and a certain timeline evidence indicates 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.360 certain things on certain dates and it gives us a 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.440 true picture of what really happened from there. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.160 So police now have another last possible sighting of Les 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.360 my family friend Tony Hoyer on Sunday, the eighteenth of April. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.280 On one hand, Tony's account lines up with Leanne's story 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.800 of Les catching a train to Brisbane to visit her, 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.040 except Tony said Les was leaving right then on the Sunday, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.880 so the timeline's out of whack. Leanne told police Lez 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.640 visited her on a Wednesday and the train ticket was 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.760 booked for Tuesday, So why would Leslie packing up and 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.800 heading out to the train on the Sunday? And also, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.440 here's the kicker. The train from Townsville to Brisbane, it 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.160 didn't run on Sundays back then. To be fair to Tony, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.120 he's given several statements over the years and has made 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.800 it clear that he can't remember exactly what day he 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.120 saw Lez, and there's no evidence that he had anything 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.040 to do with Lez's disappearance. But Lesz's belongings were gone 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.200 from the Phillips house. For police, the question remained, why 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.600 would les pack all of his possessions in his car 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.240 and trailer then leave the car at the train station. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.840 David told the police that he knew Less's car was 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.480 at the train station and left a note on the windscreen. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.520 When police found the car, they saw the note and 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.520 it read les Margaret has gone home. Could you please 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.800 ring or call in David? But where was that trailer? 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.880 Meanwhile, Lez's lawyer and real estate agent were both frantically 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.000 calling the house looking for Lez. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.680 From what they told us, there was sort of someone there. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.680 The lady who answered the phone and we've got no 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.800 idea who it was was sort of appeared to be 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.960 a little bit reluctant or didn't particularly want to pass 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:06.120 any information on. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.720 The real estate agent kept calling and eventually got through 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.040 to Leanne, who was home from hospital by then. She 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.680 tried to explain the urgency of the situation, but Leanne 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.280 kept repeating that she didn't know where her father was. Eventually, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.080 Leanne told the real estate agent not to call again, 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.080 that they were a nuisance caller. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.040 They just seemed to be an overall Oh look, he's 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.240 gone away, we don't know where he is, and that's it. 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.040 Even if Les had a habit of just going bush. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.320 Les's trayler had gone missing, all of his possessions were gone, 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.040 and his lawyer and real estate agent were both frantically 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.520 calling because Les hadn't shown up to collect the keys 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.760 to his new home and his car was sitting at 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.280 Townsville train station out in the open. Why didn't David 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:03.080 the former police officer, report him missing. In July nineteen 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:08.320 ninety three, nearly two months after Les vanished, the police 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.520 got a break. They'd circulated images of Les's trailer in 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.960 the media, hoping locals would recognize it. The trailer was 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.000 one of a kind, pretty distinctive looking. It was hand 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.680 built and bright blue. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.919 We received a phone call from a gentleman who I 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.359 suppose part time was. His interest was to go to 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.280 a bush area just down the outskirts of towns Well. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.480 There was notorious for just people just dumping I won't 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.720 say rubbish, but just car bodies, bits of metal and 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.480 things like that. So he'd go and scraunge, pull metal 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.879 out and I either sell it to scrap metal merchants 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.640 or just on sell it. So he got into contact 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.760 with us and told us that he'd found remnants of 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:53.360 a trailer. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.840 The trailer had been burned and only its metal parts 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:04.880 the wheel, axle and frame remained. Amongst the ashes, there 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:10.080 was some cutlery, glass fragments, and melted tools. The trailer 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.919 had been full when it was set alight. The scrap 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.080 metal collector took the trailer's axle, leaving the metal frame behind. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.520 When he came back to collect the frame a week later, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.359 it was gone. He also noticed that the ashes and 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.720 debris from the fire had been raked up. When he 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.240 returned again another week later, he saw the area had 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:39.680 been burned. A second time. He saw something else too. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.960 He saw someone probably about one hundred and fifty meters 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.919 just standing leaning against a car. Wasn't able to elaborate 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.199 what sort of car it was, who it was give 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.800 us any description, but he said this person stood and 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.000 watched him for at least fifteen to twenty minutes. 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.600 Another local had also stumbled upon the trailer. He also 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.760 returned to the scene a week later and noticed that 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.440 the fire and debris had been cleared up. He noticed 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.400 two people, a guy in his thirties and another man 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:15.040 he couldn't describe, near the burned out trailer. When Noel 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.680 arrived on the scene, it was immediately obvious whoever had 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.560 set the trailer alight had tried to cover their tracks. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.919 And in fact, later on, when we went back and 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:30.320 did a search with the sees, we found separate piles 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.520 of the debris. Someone had gathered it all up and 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.239 spread it out in separate piles around the are if 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.400 one was about one hundred and fifty meters away from 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.480 where the trailer was found, so there'd been a deliberate 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.639 attempt to hide the remnants of the fire. 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.800 In other words, someone had made at least two attempts 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.920 to completely destroy the trailer, and even though there wasn't 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.320 much of it left. Police were pretty sure it belonged 0:19:58.359 --> 0:19:58.800 to Les. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.320 Tayler had a specific stud pattern on the wheels that 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.119 was quite unusual. So comparison of that with the photo 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.439 that we had were able to reasonably confident that that 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:12.479 was Leeds's trailer. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.520 Police needed to do two things, first identify whether Les's 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:24.040 body was amongst the ashes, and second to make absolutely 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.520 sure that this really was Les's trailer. They sifted through 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.919 the crime scene, collecting and logging what they found amongst 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.480 the ash, and asked et Issen Lez's ex wife if 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.240 she could identify anything that belonged to Les. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.040 So I flew up to Townsville that I was asked 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.240 to go, and I flew up to Townsville, at my 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:51.120 own expense, up to the police there and they took 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:55.000 me to the police station. And after that I was 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.040 given bags and bags and bags of stuff that I 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.080 had to go through with my fingers and to see 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.720 if I could recognize anything. Well. I recognized quite a 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:10.960 few things that probably only I would have known because 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.040 we'd been married all those years. 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:18.760 Sure enough, amongst those tiny fragments, it recognized some old 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.560 china that belonged to Lez. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.200 I remember finding little scraps of just tiny bitch inch 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.120 by an inch or something that I knew a part 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.800 of a dinner set that was ours that I'd given him, 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.720 you know, having to go through with my fingers to 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.640 pick out any tiny little bit of thing that I 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.480 knew was lesses. That was emotionally one of the hardest 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.760 things I've ever had to do in my life, because 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.359 I'm going through ashes and all the time I didn't 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.080 know whether his body had been burnt there. It was 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:56.040 a horrible time for me, dreadful, but I didn't want 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.959 Lazelda have to do it. I went through and did it. 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.400 With confirmation that the burned out trailer was les Balls, 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:12.200 police were now certain they were dealing with a homicide, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.959 the same conclusion Officer Ian Nanness had reached after just 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:22.400 two days. But until then, Lachelle had been holding out 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:27.359 hope that her dad was still alive. When you heard 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.080 the news of the burnt out trailer and finding that 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:36.320 trailer in July that year, is that when you realized 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:40.719 one hundred percent that your dad had been murdered. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.280 I still had hope that he was still in a 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.119 homeless shoulder Like well, I'd look at homeless people on 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.400 the street and think, oh my god. I double checked 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.120 to see if it was my dad or anything, even 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.840 though it wasn't. It was just horrendous. Yeah. 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.159 I always had hope, but I sort of knew. Yeah. 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.960 Police analyzed the ashes Les wasn't burned, along with his trailer, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:08.800 and the sees Or State Emergency Service helped search the 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.840 area too. There was no sign of Lez, they had 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:17.160 no idea where he could be. It seemed to detective 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.080 null Powers that whoever had murdered Les had created an 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:25.639 elaborate smoke screen to buy themselves time. They'd booked a 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:28.880 ticket to Dolby via Brisbane in Les's name to make 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.120 it appear as if he was alive while they worked 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:34.520 to completely destroy his trailer. 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:39.520 Someone had gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the evidence, 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:46.040 to create a version that would distract us, that would 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:47.280 put us on the wrong path. 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.600 Finding the trailer was a lucky break for police, especially 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.720 because they missed other clues. The first inquest heard evidence 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.920 from the scrap metal collector that he gave the police 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.880 the number plates of someone who'd apparently seen the trailer 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.399 before it was set a light, but police lost the 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:08.760 details of this vital witness. By the time the scrap 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.680 metal collector was on the witness stand, he couldn't remember 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.960 the plate number. And a woman who cleaned the Phillips 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.800 house twice a week told police she saw a trailer 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.200