1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:06,390 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,390 --> 00:00:09,389 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. I love talking to biotech companies for a few 3 00:00:09,389 --> 00:00:12,029 Sean Aylmer: reasons. They're different from so many other companies that we 4 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:15,480 Sean Aylmer: talk about. They can be extremely expensive to establish because 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,540 Sean Aylmer: of the research and testing necessary. They can go for 6 00:00:18,540 --> 00:00:20,520 Sean Aylmer: a very long time without seeing a return on their 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,150 Sean Aylmer: investment and they're largely at the mercy of different countries 8 00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:28,170 Sean Aylmer: and jurisdictions, all which have their own regulatory processes. But 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,320 Sean Aylmer: at their core, they are companies that aim to fix 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,739 Sean Aylmer: a problem and to help people. My guest today is 11 00:00:34,739 --> 00:00:39,600 Sean Aylmer: Bob Proulx, the CEO of ASX listed, Imagion Biosystems, a company 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,110 Sean Aylmer: leading the charge for better imaging methods for cancer patients. 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,679 Sean Aylmer: This is groundbreaking stuff. Bob joins me from San Diego. 14 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:47,428 Sean Aylmer: Good morning, Bob. 15 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:50,400 Bob Proulx: Good morning, Sean. Nice to be here. Thanks for the invitation. 16 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:54,359 Sean Aylmer: So, take us through Imagion Biosystems. What are you doing? 17 00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:58,620 Bob Proulx: Yeah. So, as you said in the intro, we're working 18 00:00:58,620 --> 00:01:02,309 Bob Proulx: on improving imaging technology to do a better job of 19 00:01:02,309 --> 00:01:06,210 Bob Proulx: being able to detect cancer. So, we're leveraging the capability 20 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,679 Bob Proulx: of tiny magnetic particles to effectively generate, sort of, a 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,370 Bob Proulx: magnetic beacon or a magnetic signature when they become attached 22 00:01:14,370 --> 00:01:18,030 Bob Proulx: to cancer. And that will help us improve the ability 23 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:21,480 Bob Proulx: to detect it at an earlier stage and more specifically. 24 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:24,029 Bob Proulx: One of the problems we have today is, we've got 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,209 Bob Proulx: five great ways to generate images of the body, X- 26 00:01:27,209 --> 00:01:31,800 Bob Proulx: ray, CT, ultrasound, PET and MRI. And they're all good at 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,360 Bob Proulx: being able to identify anatomical anomalies of fractured risks, for 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,020 Bob Proulx: example, or what might be a spot that looks interesting 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,649 Bob Proulx: or concerning. But they can't go beyond identifying, sort of, 30 00:01:43,650 --> 00:01:46,289 Bob Proulx: a region of interest or a suspicious lesion. And we're 31 00:01:46,289 --> 00:01:48,570 Bob Proulx: trying to change that. We're trying to move imaging from 32 00:01:48,570 --> 00:01:52,980 Bob Proulx: being, identifying an area that's of concern, to really being 33 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:55,260 Bob Proulx: able to say, " No, in fact, that's cancer because we 34 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:58,320 Bob Proulx: have a molecular signature generating this magnetic signal." 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,639 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, just take me a step back. Those different 36 00:02:02,639 --> 00:02:05,460 Sean Aylmer: types of imaging that we have, that we all know 37 00:02:05,460 --> 00:02:09,090 Sean Aylmer: about, they seem to have been around for a while. Is 38 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:12,029 Sean Aylmer: this an area where it got to a certain point 39 00:02:12,389 --> 00:02:14,459 Sean Aylmer: and it hasn't taken a great leap forward and that's, 40 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:16,440 Sean Aylmer: kind of, what you are trying to do? Or is 41 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,390 Sean Aylmer: it something that incrementally has been getting better? 42 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:23,609 Bob Proulx: So, those techniques have gotten better and better at image 43 00:02:23,609 --> 00:02:26,970 Bob Proulx: resolution. So, our pictures are getting better, we're seeing more 44 00:02:26,970 --> 00:02:30,510 Bob Proulx: clarity. We can see smaller and smaller structures. Things like 45 00:02:30,510 --> 00:02:35,220 Bob Proulx: artificial intelligence and machine learning are actually increasingly improving that. 46 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:40,139 Bob Proulx: But diseases like cancer are a cellular phenomenon and not 47 00:02:40,139 --> 00:02:44,190 Bob Proulx: a structural phenomenon. So, the difference is, where those techniques 48 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:47,580 Bob Proulx: up until now have lacked, is their ability to actually say, " 49 00:02:47,610 --> 00:02:50,669 Bob Proulx: Oh, that spot I see is cancer." We're all probably 50 00:02:50,669 --> 00:02:54,779 Bob Proulx: familiar with a mammogram showing a spot, but is it 51 00:02:54,780 --> 00:02:57,750 Bob Proulx: a malignant form of cancer or just a benign fibrotic 52 00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:00,269 Bob Proulx: tumor? That's what we're trying to change. We're trying to 53 00:03:00,270 --> 00:03:03,299 Bob Proulx: take advantage of all of the good aspects of imaging 54 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,600 Bob Proulx: resolution, but adding that ability to then say, " Well, the 55 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,470 Bob Proulx: spot that I see actually is there because it's generating 56 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:14,580 Bob Proulx: a magnetic signature associated with the molecular profile of the 57 00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:16,590 Bob Proulx: cells that the particles are attached to." 58 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,830 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, I'm just thinking this through. So, recently I had 59 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:22,320 Sean Aylmer: a son who was having kidney issues. He had all 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,840 Sean Aylmer: the scans and eventually they took a biopsy, they put 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,150 Sean Aylmer: a big needle into his kidneys and took a bit 62 00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:29,520 Sean Aylmer: out to work out what was going on. Thankfully, all 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,700 Sean Aylmer: is fine but, potentially, what you are talking about, you 64 00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:35,099 Sean Aylmer: won't need that big needle and you won't have to 65 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:37,440 Sean Aylmer: go through all these different scans because you'll actually know, 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,580 Sean Aylmer: upfront, what it is. 67 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,350 Bob Proulx: So, you're spot on with the idea that, today, for 68 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:46,470 Bob Proulx: almost every form of cancer, we can get an image, 69 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:50,310 Bob Proulx: but we ultimately confirm the presence of the cancer by 70 00:03:50,340 --> 00:03:53,699 Bob Proulx: doing a biopsy. For some things like melanoma, that's not 71 00:03:53,699 --> 00:03:56,490 Bob Proulx: such a bad deal. But for things like deep body 72 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,300 Bob Proulx: tissues, like pancreatic cancer, or you take a man with 73 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:03,570 Bob Proulx: elevated PSA and he's going to have a prostate biopsy, 74 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,980 Bob Proulx: these all are relatively risky procedures. There could be significant 75 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:11,879 Bob Proulx: side effects in everything. So, we're not as concerned about 76 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:18,238 Bob Proulx: replacing biopsy per se, as eliminating the unnecessary biopsies for 77 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,969 Bob Proulx: when it's negative, right? So, if you're a man who 78 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:24,180 Bob Proulx: has an elevated PSA but you don't have clinically significant 79 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:27,270 Bob Proulx: disease, you're still going to get a biopsy and then 80 00:04:27,270 --> 00:04:30,810 Bob Proulx: you have the risk of erectile dysfunction and incontinence, et 81 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:33,539 Bob Proulx: cetera. If we could take a patient and say, " You've 82 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:38,070 Bob Proulx: got an elevated PSA, but the MagSense signature doesn't show 83 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:40,740 Bob Proulx: up at your prostate, therefore we don't think PSA is 84 00:04:40,740 --> 00:04:44,190 Bob Proulx: elevated because you have cancer, it's something else." Now let's 85 00:04:44,190 --> 00:04:46,079 Bob Proulx: look at what else it might be. And we've avoided 86 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,450 Bob Proulx: having to do that biopsy for some of those patients. 87 00:04:48,810 --> 00:04:50,610 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Bob, we'll be back in a minute. 88 00:04:56,820 --> 00:05:03,269 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Bob Proulx, CEO of ASX listed, Imagion Biosystems. Okay, 89 00:05:03,269 --> 00:05:08,190 Sean Aylmer: so where's Imagion Biosystems up to in the process of developing this 90 00:05:08,370 --> 00:05:09,120 Sean Aylmer: better imaging? 91 00:05:09,570 --> 00:05:12,659 Bob Proulx: Right. So, we have our first product that's focused on 92 00:05:12,690 --> 00:05:16,259 Bob Proulx: breast cancer, lymph nodal detection in breast cancer. It's in 93 00:05:16,260 --> 00:05:20,009 Bob Proulx: the clinic in Australia. We began that clinical study about 94 00:05:20,009 --> 00:05:22,020 Bob Proulx: a year, or a year and a half or so 95 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:25,230 Bob Proulx: ago. We're coming up towards the end, we still have 96 00:05:25,230 --> 00:05:28,710 Bob Proulx: some more patients to recruit, but in March of this 97 00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:31,289 Bob Proulx: year, we reported the interim results for the first five 98 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:35,700 Bob Proulx: patients indicating that the imaging agent is safe and tolerated. 99 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:37,979 Bob Proulx: And we're now just trying to get enough patients to, 100 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:40,770 Bob Proulx: sort of, demonstrate that, in fact, we think the imaging 101 00:05:40,770 --> 00:05:42,810 Bob Proulx: capability is going to be effective before we go to 102 00:05:42,810 --> 00:05:46,080 Bob Proulx: a large scale clinical study. Behind that, we started to 103 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,860 Bob Proulx: develop a pipeline of other imaging agents for prostate cancer. 104 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,010 Bob Proulx: We've got early stage program and brain cancer and ovarian 105 00:05:53,010 --> 00:05:56,070 Bob Proulx: cancer. So, our focus was always on getting the first 106 00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:59,159 Bob Proulx: product into the clinic so that we could actually demonstrate 107 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,240 Bob Proulx: that this idea of using targeted magnetic particles will actually 108 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,390 Bob Proulx: work. And now that we've started to see traction in 109 00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:09,570 Bob Proulx: that early stage clinical work, we've started to put some 110 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:11,760 Bob Proulx: effort behind filling out a pipeline, so that we can 111 00:06:12,059 --> 00:06:14,460 Bob Proulx: say that we've got imaging agents for a variety of 112 00:06:14,460 --> 00:06:15,299 Bob Proulx: different cancers. 113 00:06:15,509 --> 00:06:18,180 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And then in the case of the breast cancer 114 00:06:18,270 --> 00:06:20,550 Sean Aylmer: imaging, which is where you are furthest along because you're 115 00:06:20,550 --> 00:06:23,880 Sean Aylmer: having trials at the moment, is it that if there's 116 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,428 Sean Aylmer: a lump in the breast, you can determine whether it's 117 00:06:26,428 --> 00:06:27,540 Sean Aylmer: malignant or benign? 118 00:06:28,559 --> 00:06:32,428 Bob Proulx: No. So, we focused on a smaller clinical problem. So, 119 00:06:32,428 --> 00:06:35,368 Bob Proulx: most women today, when you've been diagnosed with a primary 120 00:06:35,369 --> 00:06:38,790 Bob Proulx: tumor, and that follows the normal process of a clinical 121 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:42,210 Bob Proulx: assessment, probably a mammogram and a biopsy as we were 122 00:06:42,210 --> 00:06:45,659 Bob Proulx: just describing, getting a biopsy from a lump in the 123 00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:49,049 Bob Proulx: breast is not that difficult. So, we thought the bigger 124 00:06:49,049 --> 00:06:51,509 Bob Proulx: problem here was that the second thing you want to 125 00:06:51,509 --> 00:06:54,719 Bob Proulx: know is, once you've identified a primary tumor, you want 126 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,789 Bob Proulx: to know is it spread to the lymph nodes? Has 127 00:06:56,790 --> 00:07:00,029 Bob Proulx: it started to metastasize? And here the problem is, again, 128 00:07:00,029 --> 00:07:03,928 Bob Proulx: same thing, the standard of care in this approach has 129 00:07:03,928 --> 00:07:06,270 Bob Proulx: been to go in and do lymph nodal biopsies, that 130 00:07:06,270 --> 00:07:09,059 Bob Proulx: is, we actually remove the lymph nodes from patients to 131 00:07:09,059 --> 00:07:11,429 Bob Proulx: go look in the petri dish, right? But more than 132 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:15,690 Bob Proulx: 50% of women have no nodal disease. So, the problem 133 00:07:15,690 --> 00:07:17,700 Bob Proulx: here is, that the doc goes back to the patient 134 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:21,450 Bob Proulx: and says, " Good news, no metastatic spread. Bad news, I 135 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:23,400 Bob Proulx: just cut your lymph nodes out to get you that 136 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,179 Bob Proulx: answer." And of course, we're probably familiar with morbidity problems 137 00:07:27,179 --> 00:07:29,699 Bob Proulx: like lymphedema and that, that affect women when your lymph 138 00:07:29,699 --> 00:07:32,940 Bob Proulx: nodes have been removed. So, our clinical application is to 139 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:36,240 Bob Proulx: take a patient, who already we know has breast cancer, 140 00:07:36,570 --> 00:07:39,690 Bob Proulx: and help to non- invasively determine if they have nodal 141 00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:41,550 Bob Proulx: spread and metastatic disease. 142 00:07:42,929 --> 00:07:45,869 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I'm going to change (inaudible) now. Why are 143 00:07:45,870 --> 00:07:48,569 Sean Aylmer: you listed on the ASX? Because most of your work... 144 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:50,940 Sean Aylmer: You are based in San Diego, Bob, most of your 145 00:07:50,940 --> 00:07:53,460 Sean Aylmer: work... Although you do do some work with Royal Brisbane 146 00:07:53,460 --> 00:07:56,640 Sean Aylmer: and Women's Hospital, I think, and Monash Health, is that right? 147 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:57,390 Bob Proulx: Yes. 148 00:07:57,690 --> 00:08:01,020 Sean Aylmer: But I'm just interested that we... Australia seems to be 149 00:08:01,020 --> 00:08:04,350 Sean Aylmer: quite a good place to list for a few sectors. 150 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:08,001 Sean Aylmer: Biotech being one, gaming being another one, oddly enough, and (inaudible) 151 00:08:08,001 --> 00:08:09,840 Sean Aylmer: being the other one. But why list in Australia? 152 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:13,560 Bob Proulx: So, I think a couple of things there. One is 153 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,929 Bob Proulx: that, because of the restructuring that we'd done from our 154 00:08:15,929 --> 00:08:18,840 Bob Proulx: prior company, we knew that we wanted to be a 155 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,539 Bob Proulx: listed entity. We were not going to go private and 156 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:23,610 Bob Proulx: do that. And so, when you start to look across 157 00:08:23,879 --> 00:08:27,810 Bob Proulx: the globe at where biotech companies can list, of course 158 00:08:27,810 --> 00:08:31,200 Bob Proulx: you've got the NASDAQ and the New York Stock Exchange 159 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,500 Bob Proulx: here in the United States, but the cost of compliance 160 00:08:34,740 --> 00:08:38,160 Bob Proulx: for those in the United States is very high. And 161 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,759 Bob Proulx: if you're an early stage biotech company, you're at risk 162 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,790 Bob Proulx: of becoming delisted, if you will, if you come out 163 00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:47,130 Bob Proulx: of compliance in any way, shape or form. And so, 164 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:49,170 Bob Proulx: we looked at where we were in the stage of 165 00:08:49,170 --> 00:08:54,360 Bob Proulx: development and wanting to be a listed company, felt that 166 00:08:54,389 --> 00:08:57,299 Bob Proulx: the US markets were probably not the right approach. And 167 00:08:57,299 --> 00:08:59,910 Bob Proulx: then when you look globally, where then might you want 168 00:08:59,910 --> 00:09:02,429 Bob Proulx: to go? What we really liked about the ASX is, 169 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:07,380 Bob Proulx: it's very good compliance. Investors have good clarity as to 170 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:11,099 Bob Proulx: what's happening in the company. There's good disclosure requirements, et 171 00:09:11,099 --> 00:09:13,440 Bob Proulx: cetera. So, we thought that it was, sort of, the 172 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,009 Bob Proulx: compromise that would allow us to be a listed company 173 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:20,700 Bob Proulx: in an exchange that was well respected, as you said, 174 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:24,420 Bob Proulx: sort of growing the biotech sector in there, but still 175 00:09:24,420 --> 00:09:28,950 Bob Proulx: would offer investors comfort because of the disclosure and compliance regulations. 176 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,879 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And what sort of... I mean, in early stage 177 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,040 Sean Aylmer: biotech, you need a lot of money to do this. 178 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,130 Sean Aylmer: So, where have your shareholders come from? 179 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,960 Bob Proulx: Yeah. So, we have an extraordinarily large retail shareholder base 180 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,860 Bob Proulx: at this point in time. Because we're relatively early stage, 181 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,000 Bob Proulx: being able to attract large institutional investors, they want to 182 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,699 Bob Proulx: see us a little further along, which is why it's 183 00:09:53,699 --> 00:09:56,610 Bob Proulx: been so important that we get into the clinical phase 184 00:09:56,610 --> 00:09:59,309 Bob Proulx: of testing, because that's sort of the de- risking event 185 00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:02,609 Bob Proulx: that larger institutional investors want. So, we've got a relatively 186 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:06,420 Bob Proulx: large, and I will say, very supportive retail investor based 187 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:10,920 Bob Proulx: to our shares. And we continue to try to do 188 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:14,429 Bob Proulx: everything we can to keep them well informed with our 189 00:10:14,429 --> 00:10:17,040 Bob Proulx: progress, without, sort of, running a foul, if you will, 190 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,370 Bob Proulx: of the ASX disclosure requirements that are there. 191 00:10:20,970 --> 00:10:25,620 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, what's the next milestone for Imagion Biosystems? 192 00:10:26,490 --> 00:10:28,859 Bob Proulx: So, I think the things that investors should be looking 193 00:10:28,859 --> 00:10:32,610 Bob Proulx: at from us here are two things in particular. One, 194 00:10:32,610 --> 00:10:36,929 Bob Proulx: is moving towards some form of closure, if you will. 195 00:10:36,929 --> 00:10:39,900 Bob Proulx: I won't necessarily say " completion of the phase one study," 196 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:42,420 Bob Proulx: but some closure with regard to, what are the data 197 00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:45,929 Bob Proulx: telling us about how well that breast cancer imaging agent 198 00:10:45,929 --> 00:10:49,170 Bob Proulx: is working and our ability to move that forward? And 199 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:51,900 Bob Proulx: then I think also, further development of the pipeline, so 200 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:54,090 Bob Proulx: that investors know that we're not, what I refer to, 201 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:55,800 Bob Proulx: as a one trick pony. That we don't just have 202 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,449 Bob Proulx: the breast cancer product, but we're going to have a 203 00:10:57,450 --> 00:11:00,540 Bob Proulx: portfolio of products. So, even by way of example, today 204 00:11:00,540 --> 00:11:03,630 Bob Proulx: we just put an announcement out this morning with regard 205 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:07,080 Bob Proulx: to the progress with our prostate cancer imaging agent. We're 206 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:10,230 Bob Proulx: at a meeting, the World Molecular Imaging Conference this week 207 00:11:10,350 --> 00:11:13,588 Bob Proulx: and presenting our prostate cancer results. So, I think the 208 00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:16,738 Bob Proulx: news flow should be focused on the progress of our 209 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:21,809 Bob Proulx: portfolio and in particular, how that clinical phase study is 210 00:11:21,809 --> 00:11:24,059 Bob Proulx: going and what that means for further developments of the 211 00:11:24,059 --> 00:11:24,839 Bob Proulx: HER2 product. 212 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:26,910 Sean Aylmer: Good luck with it, Bob. And thank you for talking 213 00:11:26,910 --> 00:11:27,660 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 214 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:29,610 Bob Proulx: My pleasure, Sean. Thanks for the invite. 215 00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:34,349 Sean Aylmer: That was Bob Proulx, CEO of ASX listed, Imagion Biosystems. This 216 00:11:34,349 --> 00:11:36,780 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed Daily interview. Remember, this information 217 00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:39,660 Sean Aylmer: is general in nature and you should seek professional advice 218 00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:42,690 Sean Aylmer: before making any investment decisions. Join us every morning for 219 00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:45,059 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular 220 00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:47,730 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.