1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigall 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. Hello and welcome to the 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. I'm Joe Hildebrand and this 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: is the real story behind why the Prime Minister has 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: suddenly picked a fight with the Gaze. How did this happen? 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: He loves the gays, the guys love him, and now 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: they're all fighting with each other. This is terrible. It's 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: particularly terrible because my wife is working for the gays 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: and now she's going after Albow. The two people I 10 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: love the most don't fight, Mummy and Daddy. Plus what 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: is going on when news pole the Albanzy government has 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: taken another kind of dive that maybe it's okay, But 13 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: the good news is that Dutton is also diving. So 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: it's a bit of a pox on both your houses. 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: We'll find out what's going on there and whose fault 16 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: it is. I know whose fault the government says it is. 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: Plus the ghost ship that's been haunting the Australian coastline, 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: it's as dodgy as it gets. It's full of colorful 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: kind of identities, peddling colorful kind of weares, but there's 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: nothing the Australian authorities can do about it. Why, Plus, 21 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: we take a trip down memory lane to a pub 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: that is full of colorful identities, cops and criminals, and 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: a bloke that has had a beer with just about 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: all of them. All that more coming right up. So 25 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: first up this week is a story that I hadn't 26 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: really wanted to talk about because I didn't really want 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: it to blow up because quite frankly, it's a story. 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: It's very close to home. In fact, it's in my home. 29 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: This is the story of the Australian Census and whether 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: or not lgbtqiplus or I think the ABC has instructed 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 1: its employees just to call them LGBT now or whatever 32 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: we used to call them, you know, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: trans queers, whatever you want, We love you all. Point being, 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: there has been a concerted campaign for years now after 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: the last census in two thousand and twenty one to 36 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: have people's sexuality counted in Australia's national document. The Census, 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: of course, is this giant database of who we are, 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: all our different characteristics, religion, ethnicity. You know, how many 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: kids you've got, how many wives you've got, The whole bit, 40 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: and it doesn't actually count whether or not you're gay, 41 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: doesn't count what your sexuality is. The only thing that 42 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: asks is if you're in a same sex relationship, which 43 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: is discriminatory against single gays. And no one's even counting, 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: and no one's even recognizing what they're doing who they are. 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: So this resulted in a human rights complaint, a complaint 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: by a Quality Australia, which is the organization my wife 47 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: works for before she actually worked there. They put in 48 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: this complaint to the Human Rights Commission, and the ABS 49 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: Australian Bureau Statistics, which is the census, of course, said right, yes, 50 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: we're sorry about this, should have included it will set 51 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: up this advisory group to look at how we can 52 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: frame these questions and what we can do. In the meantime, 53 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: the Federal Labor National Conference, which is supposedly the supreme 54 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: policy making body of the Australian Labor Party, also past 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: emotion saying that it's supported this, it wanted this to happen. Now. 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: It is very important to know that the National Conference 57 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: is not Labor MPs, It is not the Caucus, It 58 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: is not the Labor MPs who are sitting in government 59 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: or in opposition who make this decision. This is party 60 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: members delegates who all go to a giant conference every 61 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: three years and decide what the ALP should be, what 62 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: it should stand for, and what positions it should have. 63 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: So you've got the ABS saying look sorry about that, 64 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: Chief and organizing this advisory group to tell it how 65 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: to fix this problem and put the question in the 66 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: next census, which is in twenty twenty six. And then 67 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: you've got the Labor Party National Conference passing motion saying 68 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: we support this. Now. As a result, the lgbtqiplus community thought, right, 69 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: that's it, We're done. We've got it. Thank you very much, 70 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: Thank you Equality, thank you Progress, Thank you Australia. We're 71 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: in the census right. Because in between then and now 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: there was a little something called the Voice Referendum, and 73 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: I supported the Voice to Parliament, but we all know 74 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: it got an absolute bollocking at the ballot box because 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: again it was a bunch of these sort of lecturing 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: humorous lefties lecturing other. 77 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 2: People saying, you know, you've got to do this because 78 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: otherwise you're racist, or you've got to do this because 79 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 2: of the sins of your forefathers and of course, in 80 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: all these multicultural seats right across Australia, and especially in 81 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: western Sydney, in the out of suburbs. 82 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: Of Melbourne, it's a whole bunch of migrant's going Hang 83 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: on a minute, my guys, my guys, didn't do anything. 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: You know, we might have done something in you know, Turkey, 85 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: you might have done something in Greece, might have done 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: something in Italy. We weren't My grandparents weren't here. Why 87 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: are we wearing this historical badge of shame? So something 88 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: that could have been just this wonderful, nice, practical measure 89 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: ends up looking like an ideological crusade. And ideological progressive 90 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: crusades are toxic at the ballot box, and they are 91 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: particularly toxic to a labor government that is trying to 92 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: prove that it's centrist and sensible and moderate and mainstream 93 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: and isn't captive to these sort of sectional interests and 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: isn't captive to quote unquote work ideology. Right, Albo is 95 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: absolutely terrified of that, and he wants to run a 96 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: mile from anything that looks remotely like that. And then 97 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: along comes the LGBTQI people say, hey, everybody, you're going 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: to count us in the census who were here? Wee 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: queer and we're not going shopping and Albo guys, oh, look, guys, 100 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: just maybe not the right time, not quite the you know, 101 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: just just have to be Does it have to be 102 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: before the election? You know? Can we just get the 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: little election out of the way. Not sure if you're 104 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: aware of this, but we're kind of on hiding to 105 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: nothing as it is. I don't want to do any 106 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: deals with the Teals and the Greens. So if we 107 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: could just sort of put this on the back burner, 108 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: and so Albo basically starts kind of putting the fields out, 109 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: or the government does, of course, not Albo. It's you know, 110 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: you send someone else to get their ass kicks, not 111 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: the PMS. PM announces all the good stuff and everyone 112 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: else handles all the bad stuff behind closed doors. Anyway, 113 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: So the government says, look, guys, just cool your jets. 114 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: Not going to happen just yet. We're not you know, 115 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: this isn't something we're planning on acting on right now. 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: And believe it or not, that made the gay community 117 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: pretty upset, made them pretty angry, and they are kicking 118 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: up this massive face and say absolutely no way this 119 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: was something we understood, there was a commitment for. And 120 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: this introduces another element, which is the ALP National Conference, 121 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: your supreme policy making body of the Australian Labor Party 122 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: said that this was your policy. What they didn't understand 123 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: was that ignoring the ALP Conference is a time on 124 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: a tradition for the entire country to some extent, but 125 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: particularly so for the Australian Labor Party. Everyone knows that 126 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: everyone goes to Labor conference, a whole bunch of motions 127 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: get passed and people try to kind of water them 128 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: down a bit and try to vet them. Check out 129 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: the motion on Palestine that was a dooozy. Didn't that 130 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: go down well anyway? So they pass all these motions. 131 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: They're often sort of way to the left of where 132 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a labor government needs to be. And so the government says, 133 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: thank you very much, yes we'll take that on. Take 134 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: it on. Think oh that's that's great. Yes we'll get 135 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: onto Oh yes we'll action that as a matter of 136 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: priority in our sixth term of government. And so the 137 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: Labor Party government didn't feel like it was a done 138 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: deal at all. The Labor Party in power has been 139 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: ignoring Labor Party conferences just like the state Labor Party 140 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: in New South Wales or anywhere else ignores it's state 141 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: conferences all the time whenever it feels like it doesn't matter, 142 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: and they've got the party office on site and they 143 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: can just quieten everybody down and that's all cool. So 144 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: Albo again figures, oh yeah, I can just know it's 145 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: not a big deal. We never made a hard and 146 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: fast commitment. Nothing's in riding. The government never said it 147 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: was going to do it, so we'll just you know, 148 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: put it on the back burner. And again, turns out 149 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: people really get upset about this stuff, so they're jumping 150 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: up and down. They're very, very angry, and so Albo 151 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: does what Albert always does, is he cuts a deal. 152 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: He says, right, okay, fair enough, yep, you got me. 153 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: I'll count the LG and bs, but not the tqipluses. 154 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: So he says, all right, sexuality, that can be on 155 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: the census, but we're not going to do all the 156 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: trans stuff. And my wife, obviously and Equality Australia at 157 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: the organization, says, look, thank you very much, we appreciate that, 158 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: but we'd also like you to do all the other 159 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: stuff because they need to be counted as well. And 160 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: then of course the trans community or the transactivist at least, 161 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: say hey, on a minute, how do you say thank 162 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: you very much or welcome what they're doing for the 163 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: lgb people when they're leaving out us. How do you 164 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: be happy about anything? Ah? And so even Albo's attempt 165 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: to sort of reach a compromise on this hasn't quite 166 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: worked because of course all these people aren't kind of 167 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: It's not like he's saying to all the lgbtqiplus community, 168 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: will give you half of what you want. He's saying, 169 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: I will give half of you what you want, but 170 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: the other half don't get anything. So anyway, so they're 171 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: all upset and the whole thing's going on. And of 172 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: course Alba hasn't wanted to talk about any of this 173 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: because he's just wanted to talk about cost of living 174 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: because he knows the cost of living is the most 175 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: important thing for the vast majority of Australians, because that 176 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter when there is a minority of Australians 177 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: for who there is something that is more important than 178 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: anything else. It's a little bit like the gun lobby 179 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: in the US. The vast majority of people in the 180 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: US actually want more guns the restrictions. They actually think that, 181 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, having free guns for everybody is crazy. Don't 182 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: know own guns. But the ones who do own guns 183 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: and do like holding their guns and do like using 184 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: their guns, care about guns more than absolutely anything else, 185 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: and able to do anything to get a candidate who 186 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: supports them elected and get rid of a candidate that 187 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: doesn't support them unelected. So if you have an issue 188 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: that is just super super super hyper important, it doesn't 189 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: matter if it's hyper important to just a really small 190 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: number of people, because those people will basically fight to 191 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: the death to get that issue up and to put 192 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: it on the national agenda. And that is exactly what 193 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: is happening to Albot. And this brings us to this 194 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: week's news poll, and it is a shocker for the government. 195 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: But the good news for the government is that it's 196 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: also a shocker for the opposition. In fact, it has, 197 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: with incredible precision, basically delivered an fu to both major parties. 198 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: These numbers are absolutely extraordinary. Firstly, the two party preferred metric, 199 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: which is what really matters when you go into an election, 200 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: has both the Coalition and Labor locked dead even at 201 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: fifty to fifty for the second month in a row. 202 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: So it is as tight as two coats of paint. 203 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: Doesn't get any closer than that. And just to give 204 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: you an indication of how and why it is so tight, 205 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: both leaders net satisfaction rating, so whether or not people 206 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: are satisfied with the job Anthony Aberdez is doing it 207 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: as Prime Minister and satisfied with the job Peter Dutton 208 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: is doing as Opposition leader. Also for the first time 209 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: dead even. They are both on exactly minus thirteen. And 210 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm just an art student, but that minus is not 211 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: a good thing. So this is a reflection of what 212 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: is clearly the government's Labor Party strategy, which is that 213 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: they know that everyone's got brick bats for the government. 214 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 1: They are in a cost a living crisis. We no 215 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: interest rates are going up or at least not going 216 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: down when people thought or hoped that they would, and 217 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: so they've decided to say, you know what, we know 218 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: you're not going to like us. We're just going to 219 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: make you dislike the other guy. More so, we know 220 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: you don't like us at the moment. We know that 221 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: Albo was once the most popular guy in the world 222 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: and now suddenly he's the most unpopular prime minister, but 223 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: the other guy's even worse. Peter Dunton is even worse. 224 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: This brings to mind what a top election strategist for 225 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: the coalition, top election market. He was the guy who 226 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: actually designed the attack ads for election campaigns. So that's 227 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: really where the rubber hits the road. So that real 228 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: kind of you know you, mainline straight to your brain 229 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: kind of messaging that you know makes you just go 230 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: and vote for whoever they want you to without even 231 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: realizing and doing it. And he says, if there's two 232 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: brands of soup, right, and I want to sell my 233 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: brand of soup, the most effective way for me to 234 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: do that is not to tell the customer how great 235 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: my can of soup is, how fantastic it tastes, how 236 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: good it is for them, how wonderful it is, how 237 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: much their family will love them, and their kids will 238 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: come running back for more. He said, if I really 239 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: want the most effective method to sell my can of 240 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: soup and not the other guys, when there's just those 241 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: two brands on offer, I just say that other soup 242 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: has rat poison in it. And that is politics one 243 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: O one. That is basically what they call negative campaigning, 244 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: and time and again, even though you will find that 245 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: people say, oh no, we just want politicians to be 246 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: more positive, or we want a higher standard of debate, 247 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: or we want to raise the bar or whatever whatever. 248 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: This is why every election campaign you will see attack ads, 249 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: attack ads, attack adds. No one is saying, hey, vote 250 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: for me, I'm awesome, because everyone knows that most people 251 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: don't think politicians are awesome at all. They just say, 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: don't vote for the other lot. They are the worst. 253 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: Don't vote for these guys because whatever you think of us, 254 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: they are far, far, far worse than we are. Don't 255 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: vote for the other guys because their can has rat 256 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: poison in it. And these results that you see in 257 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: news poll, the results you get when you campaign like that. Well, 258 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: my next guest is the very definition of old school. 259 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: He is, for my money, the best crime reporter in 260 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: the country. He has been doing it for decades. He's 261 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,239 Speaker 1: hung out with the likes of Jack Darmody and Roger Rogerson, 262 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: all the shall we say, colorful Sydney identities, and he 263 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: joins me. Now, Mark Murray, welcome to the real story. 264 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: I've just used your real name, but everyone else, of course, 265 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: knows you as Oz. Yeah, except for my mum. What 266 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: does your mum called you Mark? When you're in trouble. 267 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: Yes, when I'm in trouble. That's what editors. When an 268 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 3: editor calls me Mark, I'm really worried. 269 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: Speak of which you are such an institution. You actually 270 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: had a former editor of yours and mine, the Daily Telegraph, 271 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: make up business cards for you that just had the 272 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: word Moz on them. 273 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: That's right, yeah, Campbell read. I said, look, I need 274 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: a business card, and the next thing you know, I've 275 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: got this five hundred of them that just said Moz. 276 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: Because no one could figure out what else to call you. 277 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: Just you just did you thing. You had contacts that 278 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: people could only dream about. You sort of went your 279 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: own way, did your own hours, and just produced these 280 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: blockbuster yards. And you produced one this week because on 281 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: the front page of the Daily Telegraph on Monday about 282 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: this this ship that kind of exists in this it's 283 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: almost like a ghost ship, except it was very real. 284 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: It was very dodgy. It was bordered by New South Wales. 285 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: Police saw that it was doing something dodgy, and yet 286 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: they couldn't do anything about it. Take us through the story. 287 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Take us back to how this was, how this came up. 288 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: So it first came up when Australian Border for US, 289 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: who have the job of surveilling our borders, noticed this 290 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: vessel off the north coast of Queensland December twenty last year. 291 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: Now they made some inquiries and it had left Taiwan 292 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: on December seven going to South Korea. Now, somehow then 293 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: navigate didn't work. 294 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: It must have been Google map, that's right. 295 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: You know, and a big mistake. And they contacted New 296 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: South Wales Police and said, look, this ship's a bit suspicious. 297 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 3: It's just loitering. It's not where it should be. It's 298 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: registered to Tanzania, which is called. 299 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Known you know, international shipping superpower, that's. 300 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: Right, and what's called a what's it called. 301 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: Flag of convenience, that's right. Yeah, So the m UA 302 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: and the maritime are filthy about this. So basically what 303 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: happens is you get a ship from anywhere, but you 304 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: just registered register it to a particular company a country, 305 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: i should say, and then you can have the workplace 306 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: laws on board of that particular company so you can 307 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: pay you your deck hands currency cigarettes. Well actly, so 308 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: because what did the South Wales Police coper. 309 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: So what transpired is eventually the ABF said, look, their 310 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: initial thoughts were that it may be cocaine or even heroin, right, 311 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: but they just they knew something was not right. So 312 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: after Sydney Party New Year's Eve, the boys are from 313 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: New South Wales Maritime Command got on the Nemesis, which 314 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 3: is our flagship. They went off just south of Newcastle 315 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: with ABF Australian Border Force Office and they boarded this 316 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: rickety thing apparently is barely seaworthy, but on board they 317 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 3: found the first time I was told was nearly two ton. 318 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: I've now established it was over two tons of illegal 319 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: of tobacco and cigarettes. And obviously New South Wales Police 320 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: aren't saying anything publicly, but their first inclination would have 321 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 3: been bring it into port. You know they could do 322 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 3: that and we grab all two ton of cigarettes, which 323 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: has been fueling, as we know, tobacco wars in Melbourne. 324 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 4: They're shooting each other their fire. It's now this is 325 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 4: illegal tobacco. We're not talking, I mean legal tobacco is 326 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 4: barely legal now. Anyway, this is the dodgy. 327 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: It is. 328 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 3: Both and with no duty or anything. But according to 329 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: the ABF. They had no jurisdiction because on the manifest 330 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: it was cigarettes. But they weren't coming into they weren't 331 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: coming to an Australian port. 332 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: Remember that South Korea to South Korea, they go to Seoul. 333 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: So this is so just to recap, we've got a 334 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: Tanzanian registered ship that is meant to be going from Taiwan, 335 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: so at least it recognizes Taiwan as a country to 336 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: South Korea. It's spotted off the north coast of Australia 337 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: and then the next time it comes to attention, it's 338 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: one hundred kilometers off the coast of Newcastle towards Sydney. 339 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: So my geography is a little bit sketchy, but I'm 340 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: pretty sure that Newcastle is not halfway between Taiwan and 341 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: South Korea. 342 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 3: And it was going south. And as one guy said 343 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: to me, if they weren't landing Australia, well I don't know, 344 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: big market in Antarctica, south. 345 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: Pot Those pings have got a nasty habit. 346 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: So that was and that was the fun. So the 347 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 3: boat like New South Wales police because it's ABF controlled 348 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: and like outside like for our boarders, they are they're 349 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: assisting yep, and the ABF said, no, right, you can't 350 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 3: bring it in, we can't seize it whatever. In New 351 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: South Wales police obviously took their boat back and got 352 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 3: over their New Year's Eve hangover. 353 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: And I imagine if you're a cop who's out there, 354 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: you've made that sort of bust when there's a bus 355 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: not a bust, and you've seen that something clearly illegal, 356 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: clearly dodges happening, and then you're told you can't do 357 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: anything about this. You'd be champing at the bit, I imagine, 358 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: I'd imagine. 359 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: But as I said, they've been very diplomatic because that's 360 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 3: their partner agency, and as I said, they were only assisting, 361 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: so literally it's just up to the ABF. But and 362 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: then two weeks later, three weeks later, the old Flag 363 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 3: of Convenience has decided to go on a little tour 364 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 3: down south. Maybe it was going to see those penguins 365 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: in the south far because it's off roundabout Jervis Bay. 366 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 3: As I said, some of the information a little sketchy. 367 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: The ABF have been fairly forthcoming, but not totally. But 368 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: might I add I've been told that when they first 369 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 3: spotted this boat off Newcastle it had been rigged up 370 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 3: for offshore tran first, so it wasn't going to come 371 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 3: in with this. It's what's called the mother the mother ship. 372 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 3: So some other vessels go out and they could transfer 373 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: containers to it. But anyway, it's now they've been talking 374 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: to it, this ship as it's kind of drifting. 375 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: Loitering was the word in the. 376 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: Down down via the south coast, and said you know, 377 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: what are you doing, what are you up to? 378 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: What are you travel? 379 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 3: You know, are you okay? Eventually they said, actually we 380 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: don't have any petrol or anything to eat, right. You 381 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 3: know that's because they'd actually they were going to South Korea, 382 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 3: so you can understand they hadn't planned. 383 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: For so this is the basic. So then the Australian 384 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: Maritime Safe to the authority. 385 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 3: And the ABF and on twenty fifth and twenty sixth 386 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 3: of January said come go an anchor and they've gone out. 387 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 3: How to look, the tobacco is still there. Maybe they've 388 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: smoked a few. There might be a cart or two, 389 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 3: you know, but they have there and they've you know, 390 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 3: they're satisfied that again that they said they weren't coming 391 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: into port. My suspicion is they didn't want them coming 392 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 3: into port. They've told them to anchor off Sure because 393 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: they come in and then it's Australia's big problem. 394 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: This is so, this is where things get really interesting, 395 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: and there's a couple of elements here. One is is 396 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: this kind of just in the too hard basket. It's 397 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: too complicated, it's in this legal gray area. The paperwork 398 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: alone is enough to do your head in. So they 399 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: just want this thing to go away. Then you've got 400 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: the possibility that, like I say, when they come into port, 401 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: what if the entire cru suddenly seeks asylum or that's 402 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: exactly that's right. 403 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: Not only that storing two ton of cigarettes would be 404 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 3: very very expensive, destroying them would be expensive. That ship 405 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 3: was a pretty dodgy state from what I can gather, 406 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: but obviously seaworthy enough that they let them. But they 407 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 3: then went off Sure pay the captain paid apparently for 408 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 3: fuel and food, and now it don't know where they are, 409 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 3: and I think it's changed its name, so NAMMY's not 410 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 3: a very good name anyway, but. 411 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: Where the Nammy state? So we've refueled this ship and 412 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: give it which, strangely enough, ABF maybe a story for 413 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: another time. ABF has a bit of history and giving 414 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: ships just enough fuel to get to where they want 415 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: to go, which is why the maybe the boat stopped 416 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: that's another story altogether. But so we've given the ship 417 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: enough fuel to just f off. 418 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure where or they did. 419 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: So they can survive long enough to get Yeah. 420 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 3: And they did contact other international law enforcement agencies and 421 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: partners and. 422 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: Say might want to keep an eye out whatever. 423 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, So but we don't know whether it went off. 424 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 3: So we went around a w A and then brought 425 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: the cigarettes on from there. 426 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: Amazing and is there and there's another just to add it, 427 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: yet another layer of weirdness to this. It's like a 428 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's like a Raymond Chandler novel. 429 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: There's all these little rabbit hole But the ship was 430 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: in a bandwidth I understand, even though it was in 431 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: Australian waters, it was in a sort of bandwidth of 432 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: Australian waters where the ABF could tackle it and take 433 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: action against it for illegal fishing, that's right, but not 434 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: illegal anything else. 435 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, And then there's the added problem that they will say, 436 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 3: well that cargo is not technically illegal, right, And I'm 437 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 3: assured that had it been cocaine, they would have taken it. 438 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 3: But as we're seeing, we've had our cocaine walls up 439 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 3: here in Sydney where we've got about twenty odd dead 440 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 3: in the last couple of years. But down in Melbourne 441 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 3: you've got at least one dead and you've got about 442 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: ninety tobacco shops firebombed and shopping centers you know, who've 443 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: been badly and it is coming to Sydney now. Our 444 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: guys have done a great job, they've done audits and 445 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 3: they've put all sorts of things in place, but it's 446 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 3: just there has been a number of fire bombings of 447 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: tobacco shops in New South Wales and this is a 448 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: war over who gets to supply. 449 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: It's so much money corner shops and this is not 450 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: the big franchises but often just a little corner shop. 451 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 3: It's a look, it's a big problem because it's like 452 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 3: I know, I was talking to a guy who told me, 453 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 3: and this guy may may or may not work on 454 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 3: the other side of the law, but he was saying 455 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 3: that he knew a guy that made seven million in 456 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 3: one week from a container. It's seven million profit, seven 457 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 3: million dollars that he actually was able to move offshore, 458 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: and that was about seven or eight years ago. 459 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 4: Extraordinary, and I think the market has gone chuck inflation 460 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 4: on that. 461 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: That's right, And again you end up with running in 462 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: our courts are invariably just finding these people. And it's 463 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: not illegal for me to buy these, right. 464 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: It's just illegal to import them, to sell them, to 465 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: sell them, or to import them. 466 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 3: But it's a major and I don't know. We've got 467 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 3: to how we don't and we've just put up taxes 468 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: again another five bucks a pack. 469 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: I think, striving it into the hands of that It is. 470 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: So, I mean, and it's a problem because we don't. 471 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: Speaking of the underworld and various colorful Sydney identities, there's 472 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: been the passing of an institution recently, the Shakespeare Hotel, 473 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: which you and I spent many an evening. It's an 474 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: absolutely it is the most incredible place. It's difficult to scribe. 475 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: And this is a pub where especially there was a 476 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: convention on Thursday night, which used to be the old 477 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: pay day, but all the journos and the cops and 478 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: the crooks. It was a bit like Sam and Ralph 479 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: the sheep Dog and the Wolf would suddenly just clock 480 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: off and say, all right, here, we're not you know, 481 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: we're going to stop trying to shoot each other and 482 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: arrest each other. We're just going to go and have 483 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: a beer. Everyone have a chat. And then you'd go home, 484 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: and then the next day you'd start. 485 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 3: That's that's right. And I had my first schooner and 486 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 3: knew it was MIDI and New in nineteen eighty there 487 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: I went up there and I remember many a time 488 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 3: Jack Darmony when we're talking about legends. 489 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: Of journals andary crime. Yeah, and I might have a problem. 490 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 3: It could be anything from a girlfriend or to the 491 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 3: fact that I'd misspelled the or something like that, and 492 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 3: you go, mate, keg talk and next thing you know, 493 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: we'd be out the front, sitting on a care outside 494 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 3: the Shakespeare Hotel. 495 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: Learning about life and journalism. 496 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: And as you said, those Thursday nights were incredibly good 497 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 3: for Sydney in a way because there were journals, there 498 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 3: were the cops would tell you things which you didn't 499 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 3: report until you've got to check. But it was a 500 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 3: melting pot, as you said, of Sydney's journalists, it's and 501 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: police and the odd crook and sometimes back in the 502 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 3: ages you couldn't. 503 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: It's hard to differentiate. Roger Rogerson was someone who you 504 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: obviously broke bread with, well used to have There were 505 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: no solids involved. 506 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: Not with Roger and Roger. I'd have a few views 507 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 3: with Rogerson up there. But it was also a wonderful character. 508 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 3: I remember Dick Hughes, a famous journal but also a 509 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 3: great jazz payer, and his daughter was with the machine 510 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 3: gun Filatio and they used to play there on a 511 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 3: Sunday after He'd be playing piano, drinking schooners, and she'd 512 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 3: be belting out these songs that you know. It was 513 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 3: a wonderful place, owned by the Hargraves family, Margaret Hargraves 514 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: since nineteen seventy five. So it's a tradition, very. 515 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: Very happily and I just love the joint. I haven't 516 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: darken its door step for a while, but I used 517 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: to go there all the time and learned just about 518 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: everything I know about journalism. I never went. 519 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 3: There's a few things she forgot about journalism, and then 520 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 3: you learned there as well. 521 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: I knocked out, I killed all the brain cells I 522 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: didn't need and kept all the ones I did. But 523 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: you're just learning at the fate of just these absolute legends. 524 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: And it was so and it was always it was 525 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: always kind of something going on, wasn't there. 526 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 3: And Margaret that's right, well it was actually there was 527 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 3: a shot at once. There was one one Sunday night, 528 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 3: someone came and put a bullet there. 529 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: And the other. 530 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 3: Great thing about it it didn't renovate. Yeah, that carpets 531 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 3: still the same. 532 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, which is why it's difficult to pull 533 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: your feet off. 534 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. It is so uniquely, it was so 535 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: uniquely Sydney still run, and Margaret was and was pulling 536 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 3: us there. You know, for a long long time. There 537 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 3: was Norah who was the barmaid who would probably I 538 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 3: think she worked there thirty odd years. It was an institution. 539 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 3: And the new owners will see what's going to happen 540 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 3: as long as. 541 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: They live, well they have to. And happily the new 542 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: owners has said they understand, they're not going to renovate 543 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: it or do anything stupid. They're going to keep it 544 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: as it is. But a few people said that in fact, 545 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, by rights, the shaky should have been handed 546 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: down to you. I mean you you kept it afloat. 547 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 3: There was a lot of other peoper like Jack Darmody 548 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: actually lived upstairs for a while. There's the other reporters 549 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 3: like Stephen Gibbs that could be seen there drinking schooners 550 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 3: of Rush's. Yeah, but there were those characters. And there 551 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: was one, you know, there's so many stories, but there 552 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: was one I remember, and I think it was a 553 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 3: little guy called Giuliani. I actually we thought he was 554 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 3: an Italian drug dealer until one of those famous Thursdays 555 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: and I was there with an old mate from the 556 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 3: drug scot and I knew this guy and I said, 557 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: you know him and and he said yeah, I said, 558 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 3: He said, yeah. His name's Ronnie Bastini in his Romanian. 559 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: But he be convinced everybody who is an Italian gangst. 560 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 3: But there was one time when gives he said hey mate, 561 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: and he looked down at his ankle. He said, he said, 562 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 3: you your shooters showing he put his feet up on 563 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 3: one of those little bits and these gun anyway, and 564 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 3: that was just many that at least you felt very safe. 565 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Mark Murray, who absolutely everyone in the 566 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: world knows as was. Thank you so much for joining 567 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: us on the real story. Thanks you time for my 568 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: favorite segment of the week, which is of course question time, 569 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: which is when you get to right into the real 570 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: story at an over podcast dot com dot au or 571 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: slide into my dms at Joe Underscore Hildebrand on Instagram 572 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: and ask a question. Ask me a question, asked the 573 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: podcast a question. Well, the podcast can't really talk without 574 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: me because I am the podcast. But you know, you 575 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: get to ask a question, hence the term question time, 576 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: which is the name of the segment. But this question 577 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: isn't even a question. This is just something really really 578 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: lovely that someone sent to me, someone from my past. 579 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: It was like a little, tiny little snippet of this 580 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: is your life, but without the high production values. This 581 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: is from Joe Ane Castorro, and she writes him and says, Hey, Joe, 582 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: I hope you remember me. It's your old school friend, 583 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 1: Joe Ane Castorro. See I told you it was, sir, 584 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: I do remember you. Joe. By the way, that's a 585 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: spoiler because that comes later. Anyway, I just wanted to 586 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: share that I've introduced my eighteen year old son to 587 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: your podcast. My son loves politics and writing and he's 588 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: looking to pursue an arts degree. Is his minor next 589 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: year with a focus on these areas. He will be 590 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: majoring in civil engineering. I approve of that order of priority. 591 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: By the way, well done, and she says he is 592 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: one of those gifted all rounders like you were. I 593 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: could have left that bit out, but I didn't. It 594 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: was even in brackets, but I thought it's important to 595 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: that and she says, anyway, thanks for inspiring my son. 596 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: We listened together to your podcast. Proudly tell him we 597 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: were friends long ago. Kind regards Joe. Thank you so much, Joe. 598 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: That made my absolute week, made my year in fact, 599 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: And yes, I do remember you really well. We were 600 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: really good mates in high school. I remember when you 601 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: went and saw Gunners Guns n' Roses when they came 602 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: to Australia, came to Melbourne and played at the Call 603 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: the Park Raceway. As I recall, it took you about 604 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: three days to get home, but you said it was 605 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: just the best event of your entire life. But yes, 606 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: I remember you very well. I wanted a massive shout 607 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: out to you and your son, Luca. Luca, you have 608 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: incredible taste in podcast. As my friend, you have an 609 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: eye for talent, and I dare say you're going to 610 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: do very very well in civil engineering. And if you're 611 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: unlucky enough to end up in politics and writing like 612 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: I did, let me know. See I'll see what I 613 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: can say. That's all we have time for this week. 614 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: As I said, if you like to get in touch 615 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: with this, just email The Real Story at Nova podcast 616 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: dot com dot au. You can get me on Instagram, 617 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: as Joe did at Joe Underscore Hildebrand. And of course, 618 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: if you like what you hear, or even if you 619 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: don't like what you hear, I don't care, just leave 620 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: a five star review and say how much you liked 621 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: what you hear. No one knows that you're lying except 622 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: for God, and you probably don't believe in him anyway. 623 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: But of course, if you are a good, God fearing soul, 624 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: you can catch my columns in the Daily Telegraph on 625 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: Monday and Saturdays. And of course you can listen to 626 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: the good word of the Lord right here every week 627 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: on The Real Story. Catch you next week.