1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the show. This is better than Yesterday. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make you all 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: day today better than yesterday. Every week since twenty thirteen. 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. My name is 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Osha Ginsburg. I appreciate you downloading the show. On Tuesday 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: last week, Audron I went down to Canberra to be 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: a part of Punter's Politics. Political fundraiser Punter's Politics. He's 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: a block called Conrad. He's a political communicator. Is having 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: huge cut through in the space around a fair and 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: equitable use of fossil fuel resources for example, and how 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: we as Australians might I don't know, see some upside 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: from our sovereign wealth being given to overseas companies for nothing. 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: He's a really fascinating guy. The room was sold out. 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: There's about three hundred people there. There was eight currently 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: sitting senators and members of Parliament in the room. He's 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: done a lot. The whole idea was to raise money 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: to hire a lobbyist, and we spoke about this when 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: Natalie Kuraku was on the show. The idea of yes 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: you can protest, yes you can block a road, but 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: where does the rubber actually meet the road. Where does 21 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: change actually get made, unfortunately in the current system is 22 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: when a lobbyist sits down with a politician or a 23 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: group of politicians in Australia and pushes their interest and 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: that is how change gets made. So the idea was like, well, 25 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: let's hire our own lobbyist and it was amazing. One 26 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: of the people who came to the event got a 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: standing ovation when she walked in the room, and as 28 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: the Independent member who went Worth electorate spender, she is 29 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: a powerhouse advocate for integrity and politics, for climate action, 30 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: for campaign finance reform, and the need for transparency in 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: electoral processes. At one point in the evening, Josh Stepps 32 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: did a whole episode of Uncomfortable Conversations and he had 33 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: Bridge McKenzie, Senator David Polcock, an elect respender on stage 34 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: and she spoke really strongly in this space. But her 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: views hasn't changed enormously since she was on the show. 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: So I thought it'd be world worth just remembering where 37 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: we are around integrity and politics and how money can 38 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: unfairly influence elections. The conversation you're about to hear was 39 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: recorded sh just over a year ago, and change can 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: take time, but these critical issues that Alliga and I 41 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: are speaking about really shape the future of democracy and 42 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: the government and the governance of our country. As I said, 43 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: she's been really vocal about the need for transparency and 44 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: campaign financing and the dangers of excessive spending and elections. 45 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: So I asked her what was her perspective on the 46 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: current state of campaign finance and what reforms she believes 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: need to happen. 48 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: I think it's about transparency. Where's the money coming from? 49 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: This of limits. I think on the level of pay 50 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: Clive Palmer and one hundred million dollars, that's a lot 51 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: of money from one Senate. See there's a huge investment, 52 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: and then also lies in political advertising. But yeah, those 53 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: are some of the areas that I think we really 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: do need to see elector reform, but also making sure 55 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 2: that different people can stand and for me, the main 56 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 2: point is that you know, competition's good, whether it's between 57 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: supermarkets or anywhere else. Nobody wants this of calls and 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: will worse of politics to be the only choices out there. 59 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: And I think it's really important that whatever we do, 60 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: and there will be reforms in this Parliament still make 61 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: sure that people from different backgrounds and different parties and 62 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 2: different you know, new kind of groups can also stand. 63 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 2: I think that shakes things up, and that's a good thing. 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: I like the idea of avoiding a Colls and Wilworth 65 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: of politics. I think it's a fantastic metaphor, like, yeah, 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: where's the Aldi, Where's the Ida? I mean, if we 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: had Aldi of politics, then we have the isle of 68 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: dreams of politics. And that is something I'd be here 69 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: for because you know, you vote for someone and get 70 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: an air compressor or a plasma well dye. It's an 71 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: important reminder of diversity and representation. Something that can get 72 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: often misrepresented is the truth, particularly when it comes to 73 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: political advertising and political donations. And you know, when it 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: comes to political advertising, these things can really undermine, i'm 75 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: the integrity of a democratic process. So I want us 76 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: to know what specific measures she feels could be implemented 77 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: to address the challenges we face when it comes to 78 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: both money and politics and advertising around elections. How do 79 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: we get to integrity and accountability in our country? How 80 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: do we get there? What does it look like? 81 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: Honestly, I say this sincerely is vote independent. And the 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: reason why I say that I'll vote for good independence 83 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: in your local area. And I'd say that because independence, 84 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: both at the federal level and at the state levels 85 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: have really fought for integrity measures. You know, things like 86 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: the New South Wales IAKAC was driven by independence in 87 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: its Helen Haynes, Kathy McGowan and others. In the federal level, 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: they're the ones who've been really holding the government to 89 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: account and even things like the Parliamentary Budget Office, which 90 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: is you know, boring but important institution for integrity. That's 91 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: what was driven by independence. But what integrity I think 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: looks like. It looks like, firstly, it's a web of integrity. 93 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: It's not just one thing. Is no silver bullet. So 94 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: it's about firstly having a strong federal EYECAC with teeth. 95 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: It is also about having I think donation and election 96 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: spending reform. Because Clive Palmer spent eighty one million dollars 97 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 2: on the last election. I think that's really dangerous for 98 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: this country. I think that's probably the most frightening statistic 99 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: that you know, one person, one company can spend eighty 100 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: one million dollars on trying to buy in an election 101 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: and that's okay, Like, surely there's a problem with that. 102 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: And then it's also looking at how do we allocate 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: our resources, you know, our grant money are infrastructure projects 104 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: to what's most important rather than what buys marginal seed 105 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 2: Like those are some of the pieces of integrity. Then 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: it's like good media. You know, there are all these 107 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: sorts of things that it's part of that web. 108 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: A web of integrity. I like the idea of that 109 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of does show though, how are the how complicated 110 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: it is to address money in politics. A strong federal EYECAC, 111 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: which she talked about reforms in you know, election donations 112 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: and election spending is pretty clear as a thing we 113 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: need to do to help safeguard democracy. Speaking of money 114 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: in politics, don't I'm not in politics, but you know 115 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: I'm in the business of putting food in my fridge, 116 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: so I do have to play some ads. We'll be 117 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: back with a Legora Spender in just by, but we're 118 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: going to talk about how communities like the ones that 119 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: you and I live and can play a role in 120 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: getting these things changed. Thank you so much for listening. 121 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: We're just revisiting when a leg Spender came on the 122 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: show the second time and we talked about money in politics. 123 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: This is off the back of I spent last week 124 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: in Canberra. I spent a night in Camebra the Audrey 125 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: and we went to a big political fundraiser thing for 126 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: Punta's politics. It was Allegra was there and it was 127 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: it was really really interesting and so what she's got 128 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: to say on the issue is still relevant and still 129 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: really important, and what she really believes is that community 130 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: engagement is a critical counterbalance to the influence of money 131 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: in politics. We're Australians and we don't really like the 132 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: piss being taken and when enough of us get upset 133 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: about it, well it's pretty hard for things to not change. 134 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: Pop Cox said something really interesting on stage and his experience. 135 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: He said that things don't change, don't change, don't change, 136 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: and then just one or two extra people get on 137 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: board and then like that everything's different. And that is 138 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like anything's moving, but slowly, slowly it does. 139 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: And this is how grassroots movements can really make a 140 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: big difference when it comes to shaking political outcomes. 141 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: We don't trust politicians, but we do trust our friends. 142 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: And so I think this is where actually, again the 143 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: power of you know, if you care about something. You 144 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: can make a big difference by talking to the people 145 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 2: you know about this and sharing that knowledge, and also 146 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: you know, and being armed. And I think for our 147 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: kids again, the point is for them to not just 148 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: feel like they're sort of passive consumers, but get them 149 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: armed and get them interested, get them involved. That's the power. 150 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: It was a colossal swing from what was overwhelmingly yes 151 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: to know what do we not know? What do we 152 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: not know about? What was going on for that to happen. 153 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: Certainly some of the advertising that happened was there, but 154 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: I mean there are so many different reasons why I 155 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: think the voice went unfortunately was wasn't successful. And you know, 156 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: I was a big supporter of that. And I think, 157 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: you know, if I look at you know, Wentworth really 158 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: voted yes. Why do I think we voted yes? Partly 159 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 2: is you know, the community we are. But partly is 160 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: also you know, we were really active. We had you know, 161 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 2: a thousand volunteers out in the community having those conversations, 162 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: and I think that actually really that mobilized. 163 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: The focus on community engagement is you know, clearly the 164 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: reason why she won the seat and then won the 165 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: seat again, the seat of Wentworth but that's that's really it. 166 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: When it comes to countering the influence of money and politics, 167 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: there's really no other way to do it. I like 168 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: the idea of mobilizing volunteers and her electorate. It really 169 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: does demonstrate the power of a grassroots movement when it 170 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: comes to driving change. And yeah, every vote really matters. 171 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: It really does, and more and more, every podcast really matters. 172 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: So I'm glad you came on this one. Thank you 173 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: so much for listening to the show. It's important to 174 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: have these kinds of conversations. The partner's politics thing is 175 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: really interesting. You go check out as YouTube channel. I'm 176 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: sure he's cut up a version of what we did 177 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: the other night by now because it was pretty interesting. 178 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: Because if you're not up to speed on election financing 179 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: and political donations, it's pretty murky. And I wouldn't be 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: happy with it if we wouldn't let any business run 181 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: that way without having to disclose where funds came in. 182 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: But that's where we are. I like the way that 183 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: Allegora had that she really had a vision. I guess 184 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: it was a call to action for all of us. 185 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: The full conversation is fab You can check out the 186 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: original episode. You just scroll back in the podcast feed. 187 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: You can find it there. Thank you so much for 188 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: listening to the show. Thank you Adam bunch Of for 189 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: pulling this together. On Wednesday, we're speaking with doctor Zach Sidler, 190 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: who is the head of research over at November. He's 191 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: an amazing guy. He's been on the show before and 192 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: it's a fabulous conversation about because he's expecting a dad, 193 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: he's expecting a baby, and so it's actually kind of fun. 194 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: At about forty minutes in, I kind of flip the 195 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: script on him because we talk about all this he has, 196 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: how to raise young men and how to raise d 197 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: da da da. It's like, what about you? And it's 198 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: fascinating watching him suddenly have to talk about himself as 199 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: a dad to be and how he feels about the world, 200 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: because it's wonderfully he really comes through and talks about 201 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: the things that he knows from all his work with 202 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: the November Foundation, and then how that would plaque practically 203 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: play a part in the life that he has. You know, 204 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: it's the kind of experience the rest of us, how 205 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: I guess. It's a great conversation. There's a lot of 206 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: stuff to take away particularly if you've got young men 207 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: or you know men you're worried about it in your life. 208 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: I really hope you check it out well. See you 209 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: on Wednesday. Thanks for listening.