WEBVTT - How the new vape ban is splitting the Coalition 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:10.480 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ashlin McGee. This is seven am. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:12.200 If we were to tell you that there was an 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.680 issue that's exposing divides within our political parties that pits 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.120 their traditional supporters against each other and fractures the electorate, 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.480 your first thought might not be vapes. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:23.479 But that's exactly what. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.880 The government's new vaping band is doing to both the 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.000 Greens and the Coalition as they decide whether to vote 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.920 for it. Parents sick of seeing their kids sneaking a 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.080 vapor putting pressure on the Coalition, while the Greens don't 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.720 want to look like squares to their younger voters. Today 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.159 the Saturday Papers, Jason katsukis on the politics of the 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:49.080 new band and why it'll be so hard to police. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:58.080 It's Friday, June seven. Jason. 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.520 If the Health Minister Mark Butler has his there'll be 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.800 some massive changes around who can buy vapes and where 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.160 you can buy them in about a month from now. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.199 Tell me more about this plan. 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.920 So, when vapes first came onto the market around twenty 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.920 years ago, the pitch was that vapes were another alternative 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:19.280 to cigarette smoking. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.760 And a friend of mine who was a get concerned 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.520 about about my switched back to smoking cigarettes, So what 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.679 are you doing when you try vaping? So since I 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.560 switched to vaping, I've been able to walk upstairs a 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:31.440 lot easier, and. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.320 That offered a pathway to quit smoking, and they were 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:35.959 sold as a therapeutic good. 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:42.840 I tried vaping and I just switched instantly. I've never 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.280 had a cigarette since that day, and I've never craved 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.080 a cigarette. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.400 But over the last twenty years, we've seen people take 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.440 up vaping, not to quit smoking, but just as an 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.480 entirely new habit Here. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.440 We are Paris a vape expot twenty twenty four. It's 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.640 a show that I've never been to before, and I've 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:01.400 always wanted to. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.640 And we've got to the point where there's around one 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.079 point seven million people who are vaping on a regular basis. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.760 We've seen a surge in the number of teenagers aged 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.720 fourteen to seventeen take up vaping. I think it's now 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.320 up to around ten percent. The previous government decided not 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.200 to band vapes, and when this government came into power 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.679 in around two years ago, the government is under a 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.440 lot of pressure from peak medical bodies, also from the 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.000 education sector and just ordinary constituents. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.079 This is one of the. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.120 Top issues that MPs say that voters engage them on. 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.000 You know, why aren't you doing something to stop vaping. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.800 This is what a New South Wales principal said last 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.600 year quote, students are so desperate to have the next 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.480 vape or get money to have the next vape, that 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:57.120 students have become more aggressive, more agitated, less cooperatively, less cooperative, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.600 less engaged with their school work. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.560 Mark Butler's introduced new regulations. He's banned the importation of 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:05.880 vapes at the border. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.800 In the last few days the Australian government had the 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.760 Health Minister, mister Mark but Head. Butler made some announcements 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.480 in the mainstream media that they will be bringing in 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.280 some of these planned tough regulations. 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.400 He's introduced other regulations so that you can only get 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.040 nicotine vapes through a pharmacy. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.200 They've been flooding into the last several years, literally flooding in, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.800 and we gave them those ready sources and in just 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.480 the first two months or not quite two months of 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.520 the ban being an effect, they've seized amind by more 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.840 than three hundred and sixty thousand disposable vapes, so now illegal. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:44.960 At the moment tobacco shops. 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:49.600 Convenience stores are allowed to solve vapes that don't contain nicotine. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.280 The trouble is it's very difficult to police. We don't 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.560 have enough police or customs officials to go around testing 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.440 every vape in every shop. Marc Butler wants to stop that, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.600 and he thinks the best way to do that is 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:04.760 just to. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:05.720 Ban all vapes. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.640 If Labors Planned successfully navigates Parliament, Australia would have the 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.560 world's toughest anti vaping laws, and with one in four 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.800 young adults using these cigarettes in Australia, health experts say 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:20.400 it's desperately needed. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.320 Thanks so after that first wave of regulatory changes, we're 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.920 now at the second stage of reforms. If this law 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.240 passes the Senate, you won't be able to go into 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.360 a convenience store or any other retail outlet and buy 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.039 a vape anymore. All those specialty vape shops that have 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.240 sprung up in shopping malls and shopping strips around the 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.560 country over the last ten years, they'll be forced out 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.880 of business overnight, so that the only place you can 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.080 get a vape is at a pharmacy. And while that 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.280 may sound like a fairly simple idea. It's actually quite 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.320 a complex issue for all the different parties that will 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.359 be debating this issue when it actually goes into the 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:08.479 Senate for a vote. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.000 So, the legislation to ban vapes, like you said, it's 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.480 before the Senate at the moment, and the government's presumably 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.640 in talks with the other parties to get the support. 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:18.440 It needs to pass it. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.880 Where does the coalition sit on this, because that's the 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.400 easiest route to pass in this legislation. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.440 Right, that's right. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.880 The Coalition is actually quite divided on this issue. A 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:34.400 significant number of Coalition members and senators believe that vapes 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.760 should be regulated like any. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:37.719 Other tobacco product. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.800 David Little Proud, the Nationals leader, Yeah, he's come out 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.400 very strongly in favor of allowing vapes to be sold 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:46.000 over the counter. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.839 But the reality is is that prohibition hasn't worked. 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.680 The National Party has been seen over the years to 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.280 be quite close to the tobacco industry, so their position 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.120 is clear and they will vote against this legislation work. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.200 And when we did regulate cigarettes through point of sale 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.840 to eighteen years plus through licensed premises, then what happens 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.920 is as well as controlling the ingredients and the packaging. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.200 We saw an eighty percent reduction of juvenile use of cigarettes. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.719 And then you collect that GST, you collect that xcize 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:17.520 and you can put that. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.640 But then you have other coalition members and senators who 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.160 are concerned about the health impact of vaping. I mean, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.360 what's really interesting to me about this issue is how 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.920 vaping is probably one of the issues that is of 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.880 most concern to professional women and one of the things 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:40.280 that has really seen a decline in the coalition's vote 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.600 over the last ten to fifteen years is professional women 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.560 leaving the Liberal Party And if the Coalition votes against 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.719 this legislation, then I think that's really going to hurt 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.239 the coalition with professional women voters. 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:57.200 And so there are. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.920 A significant number of Liberal Party MPs who are really 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.640 worried about how that's going to look if the Coalition 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.720 votes against this legislation. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.039 I think it's a tricky dilemma. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:13.080 For Peter Dutton because if he backs voting for this legislation, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.280 then the law will pass and that is essentially a 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:21.160 loss for David Littlproud and the NATS. And because the 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:25.480 Nationals party room is so divided, there's those that still 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.120 believe Barnaby Joyce should be the leader. I think there's 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.400 no doubt that he would like to become the Leader 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.640 of the Nationals once again if he gets the chance, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.040 and if this legislation becomes law. There are some Liberal 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.760 Party MPs and senators who are worried that this would 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.040 give a bit of a win for Barnaby Joyce and 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:46.600 could unsettle a coalition. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.600 Okay, so negotiating with the coalition is one path the 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.320 government has and potentially the easiest. But what about one 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.679 of the other paths, and that's talking to the Greens. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.040 Where do they sit on this ban? 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.520 Well, the Greens are very concerned that they don't want 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.920 to see vaping prohibited, so they don't want to see 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.920 any sort of circumstance where it becomes that if you 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.800 are vaping, that you are committing a crime. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.760 So there's no way that they will allow that to happen. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:16.280 And I think. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:21.960 There's a lot of Green's voters who are probably vapors. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.600 We need them to hear that this is important to us. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.160 At the last election, the Greens stole quite a few 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.280 seats off of Labor and if they want to do 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.520 a little bit more of that, then getting support of 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.439 the vapors is something I'm sure they'll be interested in, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.080 So please, guys, this is our last chance. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:39.400 We've got a week or two. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.760 My guess is that the Greens will end up supporting 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.600 this legislation with some important amendments, and that in return 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.240 for that they're going to get a win on some 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.199 other piece of legislation that they want to amend in 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.680 a certain way. That's my sense of how the Greens 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.160 are going to handle this. The Coalition, I think to 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.080 be quite a difficult debate for the party room, and 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.880 I genuinely don't know how they're going to come down 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.160 on this one. I do think it would be very 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.800 hard for the Coalition to vote against this legislation. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.800 But having said. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.640 That, there are a lot of Coalition MPs and senators 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.960 who don't want this legislation to become law. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.080 After the break, he'll be in charge of enforcing a 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:38.520 ban and who's going to copy fine. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:40.400 Jason. 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.160 Given the proliferation of vapes and tobacco shops and corner 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.480 store is selling vapes, it doesn't sound like this will 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.680 be the easiest of bands to enforce. So talk to 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.760 me about the logistics of how they're saying they'll. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.920 Actually do it, we don't actually have the logistical plan yet, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.760 and it is going to be in credib difficult to 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.680 enforce it because it's not just a matter of banning 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.520 vapes and they go away. Firstly, you've got to try 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.679 to stop vapes getting into the country, and that's almost impossible. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.280 If the Australian Border Force wanted to, they could fill 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.600 your whole warehouses full of illegal vapes being imported into 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.720 the country every month, but they just don't have the 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.440 policing power to stop all the vapes getting through the border. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.680 While they do have sophisticated detection technology, they just don't 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.160 have enough to stop vapes coming into the country. And 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.640 also there's a question as to whether it's worth it 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:45.319 because there's other things that are perhaps a more serious. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.040 Threat to society than vapes. 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.720 And then because there's so many shops and convenience stores 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.040 that are selling vapes, it's going to be very difficult 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.240 to suddenly go around to each store and police whether 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.319 they are selling vapes over the counter or under the counter. 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.280 It's become so much a part of daily life it's 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.440 going to be very difficult to stamp it. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:07.680 Out. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.760 You know, the big stick here is the fines and 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.120 possible prison centers that will apply to people who are 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.960 selling the vapes on a commercial level, a commercial quantity. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.319 So it wouldn't be somebody who gives you one or 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:23.920 two vapes. 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.480 It would be that convenience store that is selling vapes 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:32.040 on a regular basis, or someone that's organizing or facilitating 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:37.200 the importation of vapes to sell online, et cetera. That's 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.600 who will be targeted by this new law. Exactly how 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.760 they're going to do that though it's not yet clear. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.240 It's been more than a year now since Mike Butler 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.440 first spoke about banning vapes. Why has it taken both 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.800 so long? And also you know why now is there 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.720 this rush to push it through the Senate before the 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:57.400 winter break. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.439 I think the government wants to have a legislative victory 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.760 before the winter break. It's another it's something else that 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.559 they consult to voters as look, we're taking action, where 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.679 moving to fix something that a lot of people are 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.599 concerned about. And I think the government is under a 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.920 lot of pressure from the Australian Medical Association and various 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.400 other leading health groups. They went to see the new 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.400 Health Minister Mark Butler and urged him to try to 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.559 do everything he could to stamp out the growth of 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:33.839 vaping his a habit. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.840 It's interesting talking to you about the internal machinations of 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.800 the Coalition and the Greens around this. What does it 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:45.080 tell you about how these types of issues percolate internally. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.400 I think this is one of those issues where it 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:55.800 completely crosses the traditional kind of party divides, and people 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.200 across the Parliament, no matter which party they're in, have 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.840 very different views about this, and that is what is 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.679 going to make it so difficult to resolve. One thing 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.120 that really did surprise me when I started doing this 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.640 story was the number of submissions that I read, you know, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.400 argued passionately in favor of making vapes available just as 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:19.600 cigarettes are available. 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:20.440 You know. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.520 One of the most interesting, but was certainly quite valid, 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.080 was from Fiona Patten, the former Victorian Upper House MP, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.559 and she made an argument that vapes had really helped 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.360 her finally quit smoking and that by banning vapes we're 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.560 doing her and many others like her. She argued a 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.240 real kind of disservice and that forcing her to go 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.160 to a GP is just not going to work, and 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.640 it's not going to work for all those other people 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.440 that are using vapes as a substitute for smoking. So 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.720 that really struck me just how complex this issue is. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.560 At first, I had thought, well, you know, vaping is 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.120 an evil that we must stamp out, but I think 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.559 it's it is more complex than that. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.160 It's essentially two stories in one, isn't it. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.200 Like You've got people like Fiona Pattern and people like 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.760 that who use it to stop smoking, and then you've 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.480 got teenagers and they can't vote, their parents vote, and 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:14.679 their parents are mad. 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.240 Yeah, well that's exactly right. 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.360 And I think what Mark Butler is saying is we 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.320 don't want teenagers taking up vaping and becoming addicted to 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.600 something new for the rest of their lives, something that's 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:32.600 not good for them. We know that vaping does damage, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.080 and when you read some of the chemicals that are 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.960 contained in vapes, they can't be good for you. So 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.200 what he's arguing is we've got to do something to 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.040 create a whole new health problem for our country ten 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.000 twenty thirty years down the track, and that the only 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.760 way that we can stamp this art is through your 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:56.400 tough legislative action. I think there's no easy way to 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:02.120 regulate vapes, because because this issue crosses all party lines 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:07.600 and there's no kind of coherent ideology here which says 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.960 that it's a good or bad thing to vape, a 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.920 lot of different groups of people have completely different views 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.360 about that vaping. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.800 Jason, thanks so much for your time today, Ashland. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:21.560 Always a pleasure. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:35.400 Thanks for having me on seven AM. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.920 Also in the news today, Green's leader Adam Band is 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.320 threatening legal action against the Attorney General over comments Band 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.840 claims were defametory to him and the Greens party. Both 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.160 the government and opposition joined together in the House of 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.600 Representatives to accuse the Greens of inciting pro Palestinian protesters 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.640 that have targeted the officers of some politicians, but in 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.600 comments made outside of parliamentary privilege, Attorney General Mark Dreyfus 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.920 claimed the Greens have been encouraging criminal damage of MP's 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.120 electorate officers and New South Waleses Premier Chris Mins has 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.800 formally apologized on behalf of the government to people convicted 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:16.000 of homosexual acts. Forty years after the state decriminalized homosexual activity. 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.720 New South Wales is the last Dake to issue an apology. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.520 Seven Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:24.600 The Saturday Paper. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.000 It's produced by. 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.000 Kara Jensen, McKinnon, Shane Anderson and Salton Fecho. Our senior 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.800 producer is Chris Dengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.120 Our editor is Scott Mitchell. Sarah mcviee is our head 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.920 of audio. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Mixing 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.480 by Travis Evans and Atticus Bastow. Our theme music is 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.680 by Ned Buckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Ordio. My 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.720 name's Ashlin McGhee. Thanks for your company this week. We'll 0:16:50.720 --> 0:17:00.360 see you again on Monday.