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Speaker 1: The public has had a long-held fascination with detectives. Detectives

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Speaker 1: see a side of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent 34 years as a cop. For

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Speaker 1: 25 of those years, I was catching killers. That's what

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Speaker 1: I did for a living. I was a homicide detective.

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Speaker 1: I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking

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Speaker 1: the public into the world in which I operated. The

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Speaker 1: guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from

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Speaker 1: all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest,

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Speaker 1: just like the people I talk to. Some of the

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Speaker 1: content and language might be confronting. That's because no one

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Speaker 1: who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join

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Speaker 1: me now as I take you into this world. In

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Speaker 1: part two of my chat with former Queensland cop David Raymond,

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Speaker 1: we dive back into the wild world of policing with

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Speaker 1: a dog by your side. David takes us through the

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Speaker 1: dramatic arrests and high-speed chases he shared with his faithful partner, Vader,

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Speaker 1: the police dog. I've always thought dog handlers have the

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Speaker 1: most dangerous job in the cops. They're front and centre

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Speaker 1: when things go sideways, chasing down offenders in real time.

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Speaker 1: It's policing at its rawest. But dogs don't just catch crooks.

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Speaker 1: They save lives and crack cases wide open too. This

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Speaker 1: episode is a wild ride. Have a listen. David Raymond.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Given the amount of arrests that Vader's made, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should call it Vader Catches Bad Guys. Call this episode

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Speaker 1: because he certainly caught a few. Hey, you, 26 years

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Speaker 1: as a dog handler or 36 years in the cops.

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Speaker 1: It's a long time in the cops. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: embarrass you here a little bit. Then I'll attack you

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Speaker 1: after that. You've got a host of awards from your

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Speaker 1: policing career. And I'm not making light of this. They're

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Speaker 1: important awards. The Australian Bravery Medal, the Queensland Police Service

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Speaker 1: Valor Award, Australian Police Medal, Commendation for Brave Conduct, Notorious

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Speaker 1: Service Award. You should be very proud. of your service.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And when you say you're going to embarrass me, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm very much supportive of people who've earned those medals

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Speaker 2: to wear those medals. You know, we had this medal

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Speaker 2: that's for 10 years service in the Queensland Police Service

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Speaker 2: and everybody got that. That's from the cleaner and they

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Speaker 2: call it the cleaner's medal. But if you do your

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Speaker 2: 10 years of policing, you deserve that medal. So wear

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Speaker 2: it with pride, you know. I think it's just the

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Speaker 2: most amazing thing. I often hear people put that in

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Speaker 2: the drawer. Well, I don't think it should be set

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Speaker 2: in the drawer. You got that for a reason, you know. And, yeah. So, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that's just it. And being operational for all that

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Speaker 2: time of the 36 years, you're going to come across

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Speaker 2: these jobs and you're going to pick up those awards.

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Speaker 2: You have to... be at the right place at the

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Speaker 2: right time. And that was me. I mean, you've heard

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Speaker 2: the term shit magnet, which all the coppers seem to use.

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Speaker 2: And that was just me. I just tended to be

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Speaker 2: there at the right time at the right spot. And

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Speaker 2: I loved every second of it, every second of it.

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Speaker 1: But it's a long service and you haven't shied away

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Speaker 1: from it. You're out there in the front line. So

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Speaker 1: you should be proud of it. So that's my compliments

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Speaker 1: to you. Let's take you down a peg or two now.

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Speaker 1: But you even managed to pull this one off, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how. So one particular arrest in the book,

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Speaker 1: the time you and your mate Andy rammed the wrong

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Speaker 1: car in the pursuit and very bravely arrested the wrong

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Speaker 1: man who was protesting his innocence. Even with that one,

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Speaker 1: you came out smelling as roses. Can you tell us

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Speaker 1: what happened there?

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Speaker 2: And we were, there was an armed hold up, which

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Speaker 2: had happened about 80 kilometres south of Cairns, a little

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Speaker 2: town called Ninnisfar. And what had happened was old mate

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Speaker 2: had assaulted his partner. He'd threatened her with a firearm,

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Speaker 2: a pistol. Then he'd, on the way through, he'd full

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Speaker 2: of drugs, full of alcohol, hopped in the car, started

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Speaker 2: driving towards Cairns. On the way, he did an armed

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Speaker 2: hold up. And I stick up at the, one of

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Speaker 2: the local convenience stores there and continue on his way.

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Speaker 2: We had a big troop carrier at that stage, the

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Speaker 2: two dogs. The dog spot had a big troop carrier,

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Speaker 2: the big bull bar on the front. So if any

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Speaker 2: car needed ramming, which we were allowed to do in

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Speaker 2: those days, we would be able to ram the car.

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Speaker 2: And keeping in mind that this bloke was armed and

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Speaker 2: obviously dangerous and would fire shots, that we were sent

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Speaker 2: down there. Plus if he escaped, we'd be in a

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Speaker 2: position to track him if we needed to. We're driving

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Speaker 2: down the highway. We get to a little place called

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Speaker 2: Bahena Creek. At that stage, we've heard another vehicle is

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Speaker 2: ahead of us that we were following closely. We were

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Speaker 2: following a marked uniform car. Behind us, it was us

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Speaker 2: with the dog squad. But further on, there was another

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Speaker 2: uniform car that had stingers or the road spikes, if

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Speaker 2: you like. And they were going to throw these road

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Speaker 2: spikes out and hopefully punch our four tires. As we're

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Speaker 2: driving along, this bloke is described as in a red

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Speaker 2: Holden ute. So we're driving down the highway. We get

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Speaker 2: the call from the vehicle ahead with the tire spikes.

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Speaker 2: We've stung the car. four flat tires, and we've gone, beautiful,

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Speaker 2: here he comes. At that time, we're sitting in a

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Speaker 2: car with headlights coming towards us. The uniform car, it's

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Speaker 2: a red Holden U. So the uniform car in the

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Speaker 2: front of us has done a U-turn, and we've done

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Speaker 2: a U-turn as well to follow it. We've overtaken that

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Speaker 2: car because we thought, well, we got the bull by

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Speaker 2: if we need to ream or ream, so we ever

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Speaker 2: took that uniform car. Whacked our lights and sirens on.

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Speaker 2: Old mate's done a left turn up this little dirt track,

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Speaker 2: and we thought, he's running. We've got on the radio,

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Speaker 2: he's running, he's running, he's running. We're following him. And

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Speaker 2: we haven't wanted to go any further. So the driver

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Speaker 2: of the vehicle, police vehicle, I was sitting passenger, has

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Speaker 2: rammed into the side of the car. And I've gone,

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Speaker 2: I've gone, hey, no, mate, he's got a gun. He's

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Speaker 2: got a gun. I don't want to be on this side.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's right for you to do it, but

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Speaker 2: am I going to get shot? So we rammed the car,

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Speaker 2: but we haven't given him any chance. And we jumped

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Speaker 2: out and we've dragged him out and thrown him onto

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Speaker 2: the ground and smashed the window because he wasn't going to,

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Speaker 2: he's looking as if to say, what's going on? I

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Speaker 2: don't want anything to do with this. So we dragged

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Speaker 2: him out, thrown him onto the ground. We're sitting on

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Speaker 2: top of our little prize. And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: we've looked and we've seen on the highway is this,

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Speaker 2: we've heard this car coming along with four flat tires, flat, flat, flat, flat, flat.

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Speaker 2: I go on, look at my partner. I go, look

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Speaker 2: what we've done. It's a red-holder ute.

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Speaker 1: I mean- What's the chances?

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Speaker 2: This is the Bruce Hart. What are the chances of two?

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Speaker 2: These are single-lane roads. It's not like your M5 or M1,

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Speaker 2: what you've got down there, that sort of place. But

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Speaker 2: this is just a lonely street. And here's this car

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Speaker 2: driving past two red-holder utes in a row. So- embarrassed.

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Speaker 2: I remember old Blake, when I dragged him down, he's going,

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Speaker 2: I'm an accountant, I'm an accountant. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're Starsky and Hutch, whatever, mate. You know, that sort

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Speaker 2: of attitude and threw him on the ground, the poor bugger.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, so just to end the story because it

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Speaker 2: was a bit embarrassing there, a bit funny, a bit embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: We hopped in our police cars and we thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: so we handed him our uniform stuff. We said, you

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Speaker 2: look after this bloke. We got back in the chase

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Speaker 2: and followed this bloke. And, uh, again, we got him

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Speaker 2: behind him and this time he did the same thing.

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Speaker 2: He took, you can, with those, with those four, um,

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Speaker 2: odd known cars have gone 30 kilometers with flat tires.

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Speaker 1: When the tires have been punctured.

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Speaker 2: Even on rims, you know, they, they can, they can

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Speaker 2: continue along for a long way. Eventually they stop. But, uh,

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Speaker 2: so anyway, so we followed this bloke and he did

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Speaker 2: the same thing. He went down this dirt road. I thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: here we go again. Exactly the same thing. We're sure

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Speaker 2: we had the right car this time. And this is

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Speaker 2: my story. So, uh, Old mate stopped. He's jumped out

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Speaker 2: with the firearm. My partner, the driver, has jumped out

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Speaker 2: of his side. He's got him pointed the gun towards him.

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Speaker 2: My door was actually opened on a little cane paddock,

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Speaker 2: and old mate was standing in front of this cane paddock,

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Speaker 2: so I'd been hidden from view. So this is my story.

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Speaker 2: I've run out, and I've come out into the bush

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Speaker 2: and tackled him with the gun and knocked the gun

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Speaker 2: out of his hands, whereas my mate reckons I jumped

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Speaker 2: out of the car, ran around scared, bumped into him,

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Speaker 2: and the gun's fallen. fallen away. So you decide which

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Speaker 2: story you think is true, but I know which one

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Speaker 2: I want to do.

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Speaker 1: Well, how lucky do you get? You get a practice

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Speaker 1: run to apprehend an innocent man, and then you apprehend

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Speaker 1: an armed offender.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But how embarrassing. Embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: And Vader's probably got a different version as well, that

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Speaker 1: he tracked the person and launched himself out of the

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Speaker 1: police car. So where the truth lies, no one knows. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: I've got another one that I'd like you to tell

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Speaker 1: the story. And this is, I've made a note here,

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Speaker 1: Vader solving a murder that wasn't a murder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had a job, a male

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Speaker 2: person that had been knocking on these people's fences. I

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Speaker 2: turned up, I was first on the scene actually. And

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Speaker 2: there was, it's like something out of a movie because

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Speaker 2: it was a brand new painted white picket fence and

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Speaker 2: there was just blood all over the thing. where the

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Speaker 2: deceased had been trying to get into the house to

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Speaker 2: get help. That's what it looked like, and it appeared

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Speaker 2: to have stab wounds all over him. I got onto

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Speaker 2: a track. The Ambos turned up and did their job,

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Speaker 2: as did the detectives. I got onto a track, and

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Speaker 2: I tracked it. It was only a short track. It

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Speaker 2: was only a couple of hundred metres, maybe a little

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Speaker 2: bit more. And I've come to a house down the road,

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Speaker 2: I've put the dog in there. The dog's indicated that

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Speaker 2: somebody's in there. This is just a classic example of tracking.

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Speaker 2: And unbeknown to me, there was also blood trails. There

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Speaker 2: was a blood trail all the way to this house.

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Speaker 2: So if I had to follow the blood trail, I

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Speaker 2: probably could have done it, but the dog actually did

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Speaker 2: the job. But what's actually happened is, unfortunately, because I've

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Speaker 2: rung the detectives. I said, get down here. This is

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Speaker 2: where the offenders are. We knocked on the door, couldn't

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Speaker 2: get hold of anybody. Nobody came out. Eventually, we got

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Speaker 2: hold of somebody. who basically said they'd been drinking with

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Speaker 2: that fellow prior to it. And he walked home and

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Speaker 2: he'd fallen over into, as it transpired, he'd fallen over

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Speaker 2: in the gutter and had actually smashed a couple of

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Speaker 2: bottles of alcohol that he'd been carrying and one of

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Speaker 2: them pierced one of the major arteries there. And he'd

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Speaker 2: managed to stagger all the way down there and tried

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Speaker 2: to get in there. So it wasn't actually a murder

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Speaker 2: after all that. Right.

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Speaker 1: And these are the twists and turns. Like when you

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Speaker 1: saw that first up, you would have just naturally assumed

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Speaker 1: it's foul play here.

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Speaker 2: Oh, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting how these things turn out. Another time, and

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Speaker 1: we're giving props here to Vader, but the time that

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Speaker 1: he caught seven offenders for one offence.

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Speaker 2: Unlawful use of motor vehicle, which is quite a common thing,

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Speaker 2: I think, not just in Cairns, but all the way

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Speaker 2: around Australia these days. And we have the pursuit policy, obviously,

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Speaker 2: in Queensland. I'm not sure whether it's the same down south,

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Speaker 2: but irrespective of what it is, you can only chase

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Speaker 2: a certain offences. And rightly so, too. We want to

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Speaker 2: make sure the public is safe. And part of our

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Speaker 2: mantra is to make sure that the suspects are kept safe.

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Speaker 1: And look, just on that, you said about the police

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Speaker 1: pursuits and we've certainly tightened up down here and I

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Speaker 1: would imagine in all jurisdictions about it. It's a real

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Speaker 1: difficult situation, isn't it, with the pursuits where you've got

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Speaker 1: a stolen car and it could be kids driving it.

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Speaker 1: You don't know. You don't know who the person behind

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Speaker 1: the wheel is and not to pursue. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think the public opinion would be, but you've got to

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Speaker 1: chase these people down. But then we've also seen the

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Speaker 1: horrendous consequences of of a police pursuit where innocent people

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Speaker 1: are being caught up in it. So it is a

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Speaker 1: difficult call on which way to go.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got that human emotion of the police

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Speaker 2: officer who all he wants to do is just catch

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Speaker 2: the bad guys and put him in jail. I don't

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Speaker 2: think people see the psychological side of that, knowing that

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Speaker 2: you could possibly have stopped that happening, but due to

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Speaker 2: policies and procedures, you couldn't do anything with it. And

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Speaker 2: it's almost like the police services right around Australia go, Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: because that'll be the first question they'll ask if there's

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Speaker 2: an accident. I'll say, well, were the police involved? Were

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Speaker 2: the police chasing? You know, the bosses come back and say,

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Speaker 2: were the police chasing?

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Speaker 1: You'll be going, no.

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Speaker 2: And they go, oh, thank goodness. So that's there. That's

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Speaker 2: to protect the brand to a certain degree. And I

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Speaker 2: can understand where they're coming from there. But it goes

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Speaker 2: against every grain in your body when you can't do it.

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Speaker 2: And it hurts when you know that you had the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to probably intercept that car, whether it be ramming

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Speaker 2: or whether it just be um, trying to, trying to

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Speaker 2: stop it, uh, that you can't, you can't do it.

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Speaker 1: Well, the road, road spiking, uh, that, that helps. That's, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's a, a way that we can contain the, contain

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Speaker 1: the situation too.

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Speaker 2: And now we have police helicopters up here in, uh,

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Speaker 2: all the major cities throughout the Queensland, which was a great.

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Speaker 1: And you know, helicopters, pole air, it's limited. We've only,

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Speaker 1: each state's only got so many, uh, uh, helicopters, but

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Speaker 1: I would imagine drones will come into the play pretty

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Speaker 1: soon too.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you'd hope so. And they'll just follow the thing. And, uh,

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Speaker 2: Hopefully we can catch more. But sometimes these things just

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Speaker 2: make the person drive more erratically. But there's no easy fix.

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Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging the department.

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Speaker 2: The QPS has been the best thing in the world

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Speaker 2: for me. And I love my career. But I just

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Speaker 2: think there's a few things I could do better.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's get back to the story where you and

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Speaker 1: Vader put a stop to stolen vehicles by catching seven

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Speaker 1: people for one offence. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 2: I remember going down, the call was coming in to

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Speaker 2: say that they've been seen down this dirt road. I

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Speaker 2: started going that way. And as I'm going into this

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Speaker 2: dirt road, coming out as a stolen car, that's one

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Speaker 2: of the times when I had to stop all my

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Speaker 2: goodness in me to stop from ramming that car. It

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Speaker 2: just felt like ramming it. It wasn't going really quickly,

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Speaker 2: and I probably could have, but being juvenile, I knew

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Speaker 2: they were juvenile, so I could see it in the car.

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Speaker 2: So I rung it in. I just did a U-turn

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Speaker 2: and started following at a distance to see what I did.

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Speaker 2: I saw them come towards the highway and at their

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Speaker 2: highway is a T-intersection, which was in those days, the

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Speaker 2: highway was actually single lane. It's now double lane. So

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Speaker 2: they would never have done what they'd done. But the

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Speaker 2: car went through the intersection. How they didn't smash in

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Speaker 2: anybody who's got me beat, but they crashed into this

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Speaker 2: cane paddock and I turned up a few minutes later.

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Speaker 2: Of course, everybody's out of the car, seven of them,

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Speaker 2: gone into the cane paddock. Generally speaking, they don't go

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Speaker 2: too far out of the cane paddock because there's snakes.

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Speaker 2: It's very hot. You're getting cut by all the cane.

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Speaker 2: But you don't think about that because it's only two

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Speaker 2: or three days later all the cuts turn up. So,

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Speaker 2: of course, I get in there with the dog and

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Speaker 2: we started searching for them. And I think after, it

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Speaker 2: might have been close on three or four hours, it

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Speaker 2: was getting dark because this happened about probably at three

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Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon. probably about seven o'clock when we

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Speaker 2: finally managed to round up the seventh offender who thought

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Speaker 2: he'd got away. And I thought he got away. I

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Speaker 2: was actually taking the dog back to the car and

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Speaker 2: I looked up into the distance along this road and

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Speaker 2: just out of this little light pole, I saw this

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Speaker 2: little head run across the road into another cane paddock

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Speaker 2: and I got off. Okay, got him now. So I

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Speaker 2: brought the dog back and I got the dog in

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Speaker 2: there and tracked through and managed to get the seven

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Speaker 2: of them. So yeah, seven offenders in the one hit

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Speaker 2: was a fantastic effort.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good cleanup for that. And how else

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Speaker 1: would you do it without a dog, like realistically? And

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Speaker 1: you made the point that policing up there, you can't

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Speaker 1: draw on the resources. The resources are not unlimited from policing.

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Speaker 1: So very real chance without a dog, they would have

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Speaker 1: got away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt. You might've got one or two

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Speaker 2: because a lot of them don't go into the cane

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Speaker 2: too far because it is a bit scary in there.

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Speaker 2: But the ones that go in a fair way, the

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Speaker 2: only way you're going to get Mind you, the tracking

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Speaker 2: area for that dog, because not too many people walk

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Speaker 2: through the cane, so there's only one track in there,

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Speaker 2: so that dog will keep following the track. Two of

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Speaker 2: them were running towards a cane farm, and I thought

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Speaker 2: they were actually going to– I was tracking them out,

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Speaker 2: and I saw them running off in the distance. I

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Speaker 2: called police, so the police dog get on the ground,

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Speaker 2: and I saw them running as fast as they could.

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Speaker 2: I thought they were trying to get away from me.

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Speaker 2: But what they were trying to do is they were

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Speaker 2: trying to flag down the cane farmer so they could

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Speaker 2: get on the truck away from the dog. They were

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Speaker 2: that scared of the dog. They just wanted the farmer

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Speaker 2: to help them out.

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Speaker 1: What's the look on the fleeing offender's face when they

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Speaker 1: turn behind and they see a police dog coming at them?

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Speaker 2: Generally speaking, it's one of fear or they'll stop and

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Speaker 2: they'll put their hands up and go straight to ground

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Speaker 2: or they'll do as they're told, which is the main

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Speaker 2: thing they do. But, you know, the problem is if

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Speaker 2: you hide from a police dog, there's a big chance

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Speaker 2: you're going to get bitten because we don't know where

349
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Speaker 2: they're armed. We don't know what their demeanour is. We

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Speaker 2: don't know anything. So if you're out in the open,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get bitten. If you're going to

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Speaker 2: run into and hide in a cane paddock or in

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Speaker 2: the bushes or under the house or something like that,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to risk myself, put myself in there.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether you're armed, whether you've got a firearm.

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Speaker 2: So that dog's going to go and he's going to

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Speaker 2: apprehend you and bring you out. So just a bit

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Speaker 2: of advice if you're listening, put your hands up.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think that the dogs also, and it's

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Speaker 1: like a primeval fear, like a savage animal coming after you.

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Speaker 1: I think we can all understand that. We had a

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Speaker 1: guest on the podcast, Horse, his nickname, but an SAS bloke,

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Speaker 1: the dog handler there, and said when they're overseas in

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Speaker 1: combat zones or war zones, that the dogs, they were

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Speaker 1: looking for signs that dogs could pick up concerns and

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Speaker 1: all that. They can almost smell the fear or smell

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Speaker 1: the danger. Is that what you encountered working with your dogs?

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Speaker 2: Well, a bit of a story. There was an offender

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Speaker 2: who had escaped from the police air wing which the

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Speaker 2: police air wing is a series of aircraft that run

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Speaker 2: between Thursday Island, which is about 1,000 kilometres north of here,

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Speaker 2: all the way down to Brisbane, and they transport police

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Speaker 2: for courses. Mostly they transport prisoners to fort or to

374
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Speaker 2: prisons and stuff like that. So a young fellow had

375
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Speaker 2: escaped from the air wing, the young detectives, let him

376
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Speaker 2: off out of handcuffs to go to the toilet, and

377
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Speaker 2: of course he's clogged out this window and gone. So

378
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Speaker 2: they rang me. I was the on-call officer. So I

379
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Speaker 2: turned up there and there were so many police out there.

380
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Speaker 2: The air wings on the opposite side, it's a bit

381
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 2: difficult to explain if you don't know Cairns, but the

382
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Speaker 2: air wings on the opposite side where the main aircraft are.

383
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Speaker 2: So they fly out of there. I turned up there

384
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Speaker 2: and there were a lot of police looking around this

385
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Speaker 2: field area for this offender. So I couldn't get a track.

386
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Speaker 2: So I decided I'd go and do a bit of

387
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Speaker 2: a search over across the road there into the highway.

388
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Speaker 2: And there were a lot of mangroves and stuff like

389
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Speaker 2: that there, bush land. So I put the dog through there, searched, searched, searched,

390
00:18:48,650 --> 00:18:50,540
Speaker 2: couldn't find him. So after about an hour, I thought,

391
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Speaker 2: that's it, I've had enough. I can't find him. It

392
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Speaker 2: was very hot. So I started taking the dog back

393
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Speaker 2: to the police vehicle. And I'm walking past this street

394
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Speaker 2: and I see three or four detectives standing outside this

395
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Speaker 2: house talking about what their next course of action is.

396
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Speaker 2: I went down to tell them I can't find them.

397
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Speaker 2: They're standing beside, there's a fence there, there's a bush there,

398
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Speaker 2: and there's the house behind it. And I've gone in there.

399
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Speaker 2: I reckon I said, hey, team, unfortunately, I haven't had

400
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,990
Speaker 2: any luck, and the dog has just lunged into the bush,

401
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:23,810
Speaker 2: and I've heard this blood-curdling scream from this offender. He's

402
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:27,110
Speaker 2: been hiding in the bush right in front of these detectives. No,

403
00:19:27,390 --> 00:19:29,889
Speaker 2: he was hitting very well, but the adrenaline had just

404
00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:32,050
Speaker 2: come off. He sees the police dog coming along, and

405
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:34,910
Speaker 2: the adrenaline has just drained from him. So the dog

406
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:37,330
Speaker 2: knew exactly who he was looking for, if you know

407
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 2: what I mean. So, yeah. straight in there and dragged

408
00:19:39,580 --> 00:19:41,270
Speaker 2: him out and I said, there you go, got him boys,

409
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:43,830
Speaker 2: see ya's, you know, that type of stuff. So yeah,

410
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:46,350
Speaker 2: so that gives you an idea of the actual absolute

411
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Speaker 2: fear that the dog has on it. But then again,

412
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Speaker 2: also the dog feels the fear on you as well.

413
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Speaker 2: If you feel uncomfortable doing it, many times you'd be

414
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 2: sitting in the police car and there'd be a call

415
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 2: to say male person armed with a knife at such

416
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Speaker 2: and such a location. You as a police officer would

417
00:20:02,420 --> 00:20:04,180
Speaker 2: be going through your head, especially a single officer, you'd

418
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,090
Speaker 2: be going, okay, what's the safest route to take? Have

419
00:20:07,109 --> 00:20:11,730
Speaker 2: I got my gun, your guns, your firearms there? Thinking

420
00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:13,469
Speaker 2: all this stuff, what's my plan of action when you're

421
00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:15,990
Speaker 2: getting there? So all this time, and you still haven't

422
00:20:16,010 --> 00:20:18,169
Speaker 2: got lights and sirens on, all this time the adrenaline's

423
00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:21,020
Speaker 2: coming off, that dog in the back starts crying and screaming, going,

424
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Speaker 2: I'm going to a good job, going to a good job.

425
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Speaker 2: So that gives you an idea of what, you know,

426
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 2: they know, they know when they're going to stuff.

427
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,379
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You'd have to put a lot of trust

428
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 1: in them too. Like when you do go into situations

429
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,169
Speaker 1: like that, you want to know that your dogs are,

430
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,390
Speaker 1: on high alert and going to do what he's supposed

431
00:20:39,410 --> 00:20:39,650
Speaker 1: to do.

432
00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:42,310
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you feed off each other. He's hoping that

433
00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:43,430
Speaker 2: you're on high alert as well.

434
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:43,710
Speaker 1: Yeah.

435
00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:47,950
Speaker 2: And that, you know, you can– you feed off each other.

436
00:20:48,410 --> 00:20:48,970
Speaker 2: It's incredible.

437
00:20:49,650 --> 00:20:51,570
Speaker 1: When you get a good result, do you sort of

438
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:54,290
Speaker 1: look at each other with a knowing grin? Does he

439
00:20:54,330 --> 00:20:56,820
Speaker 1: pick up on the happiness and the pride?

440
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,940
Speaker 2: Euphoria is the word because you just feel so glad.

441
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: And a lot of times when you're tracking, you're going,

442
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,689
Speaker 2: this thing's following the kangaroo. Back it in. or, you know,

443
00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 2: you're thinking what it is, but inevitably they're following the offender.

444
00:21:09,170 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 2: It's just, you always second, always second guess your dog.

445
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,659
Speaker 2: Even after 26 years, I was still second guessing my

446
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 2: dog for some stupid reason. And generally speaking, once the

447
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:18,460
Speaker 2: dog's on that track, he's going to find them. And

448
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: when you find them, it's just such a great feel.

449
00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:23,540
Speaker 2: It's just a really, really good feeling, especially if there's

450
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,970
Speaker 2: other police watching, you know, which is a great thing.

451
00:21:26,810 --> 00:21:29,350
Speaker 2: Because a lot of times you find the offenders that,

452
00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:31,209
Speaker 2: you know, you're four or five Ks away from any

453
00:21:31,250 --> 00:21:34,450
Speaker 2: help or anybody else. And And so they don't actually

454
00:21:34,570 --> 00:21:38,330
Speaker 2: see the apprehension and, you know, the 30 fences you've

455
00:21:38,369 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: gone through, the creaks you've gone through. And I remember COVID,

456
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 2: I was injured. I injured my knee. And I was

457
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,820
Speaker 2: sitting in one of the COVID hotels where passengers would

458
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,020
Speaker 2: come in and they'd be quarantined for two weeks, I think. Anyway,

459
00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:54,180
Speaker 2: whatever it was, and I'd sit outside. I was injured,

460
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,410
Speaker 2: so I decided I'd sit in there for the two weeks.

461
00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:58,409
Speaker 2: And I remember one of my staff sending me through

462
00:21:58,430 --> 00:22:01,550
Speaker 2: a photograph of a track he'd done that night. Unlawful

463
00:22:01,609 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: use again. And I hear him going through the bush

464
00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 2: and it's F this and F that and F this

465
00:22:07,180 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 2: and getting tied up in wait a while and all

466
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: these prickles and falling over rocks and stuff like that.

467
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,140
Speaker 2: But he finally got to the offender and, you know,

468
00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:17,330
Speaker 2: police with a police dog come out and got these

469
00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:20,530
Speaker 2: couple of offenders for use. And the track lasted probably

470
00:22:20,869 --> 00:22:23,010
Speaker 2: half an hour. And I thought, I looked at that

471
00:22:23,030 --> 00:22:24,810
Speaker 2: and I went, what the hell am I doing here?

472
00:22:24,869 --> 00:22:28,790
Speaker 2: I am in air conditioning watching the cricket on the TV,

473
00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:31,970
Speaker 2: getting paid double time and a half for overtime. And

474
00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 2: here's old mate, you know, one of my team out

475
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 2: there going through going. I thought, oh. But in saying that,

476
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: the euphoria of catching somebody overrides every single easy, easy

477
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,590
Speaker 2: way out.

478
00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:46,170
Speaker 1: You'd have to have a high level of fitness, obviously,

479
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:48,490
Speaker 1: with it to do that as well.

480
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And that's a very important trait of every single

481
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: dog handler we got out there. I was lucky because

482
00:22:54,619 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: I never had to work on my fitness. I was

483
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,290
Speaker 2: just naturally had one of those in my genes that

484
00:22:59,330 --> 00:23:02,109
Speaker 2: I didn't have anything. Come to doing an exam or

485
00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:04,570
Speaker 2: a test, you can forget it. I was hopeless. But

486
00:23:04,790 --> 00:23:07,149
Speaker 2: coming to physical fitness, I was just very lucky that

487
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:09,820
Speaker 2: I was just a natural at physical fitness.

488
00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:14,020
Speaker 1: Because you need that combination. You need the aerobic conditioning,

489
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,300
Speaker 1: but you also need the strength with climbing over the

490
00:23:16,340 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: fences and The whole combination of things.

491
00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:20,700
Speaker 2: And up cliffs and some of the places you've gone,

492
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,109
Speaker 2: you just look and you go, wow, what was I thinking?

493
00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:25,689
Speaker 2: You go back even now and you look at them

494
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:29,609
Speaker 2: and go, you know, one job I did where I

495
00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:34,100
Speaker 2: was chasing an offender and Vader's gone over the fence.

496
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,379
Speaker 2: I'll throw Vader over the fence. It was an assault

497
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 2: of an 80-year-old woman. Dog's gone over the fence. I'll

498
00:23:40,380 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 2: throw him over. Bang, he's gone. I've then climbed over

499
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,780
Speaker 2: the fence. And as I've got to the top, I've

500
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,700
Speaker 2: tripped and I've fallen over the fence. And I've reached

501
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: out to the ground to hit my hand. And a

502
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,820
Speaker 2: picket fence, a picket, a star picket's gone through the

503
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: webbing of my hand in here. Okay. And, you know,

504
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:59,090
Speaker 2: with stitches in here. But it's like, if I had

505
00:23:59,130 --> 00:24:01,510
Speaker 2: it been another 20 centimeters that way, I've got it

506
00:24:01,530 --> 00:24:03,750
Speaker 2: straight through my chest or had I thrown the dog,

507
00:24:03,930 --> 00:24:05,490
Speaker 2: you know, he would have been impaled on it. You

508
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:08,810
Speaker 2: just don't know what you're coming across to. But you

509
00:24:09,369 --> 00:24:10,250
Speaker 2: just do it, you know.

510
00:24:10,540 --> 00:24:13,300
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's the chaos of the thrill of the

511
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:15,379
Speaker 1: chase when the adrenaline's kicked in and the things that

512
00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:20,330
Speaker 1: you do. Another one, you seem to have a predisposition

513
00:24:20,369 --> 00:24:24,230
Speaker 1: for ramming cars or cars getting rammed. What's the story

514
00:24:24,290 --> 00:24:28,350
Speaker 1: where someone, the bad guy, I assume it's the bad guy,

515
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:31,590
Speaker 1: is trying to push your mate Mark's vehicle over an embankment?

516
00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:34,449
Speaker 1: Tell us that one, because that's another chaotic story.

517
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,379
Speaker 2: The offender in this case had done, he was one

518
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: of for better, 100 offences. And again, with the pursuit policy,

519
00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: we couldn't chase him. I had a bit of a

520
00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: personal one on this too because I'd arrested him prior

521
00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:50,810
Speaker 2: to that and had been put in a violent arrest

522
00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:53,310
Speaker 2: where we had a bit of a fight and I

523
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:56,730
Speaker 2: came out on top. And he was actually parked outside

524
00:24:56,750 --> 00:25:00,389
Speaker 2: the front of my house at one time. And my

525
00:25:00,430 --> 00:25:02,450
Speaker 2: daughter had rung and said, there's a man in a

526
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:04,450
Speaker 2: car at the front and we traced it back to him.

527
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:05,450
Speaker 2: So it was a bit of a.

528
00:25:05,530 --> 00:25:06,930
Speaker 1: That gets personal. Yeah.

529
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,510
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does get very personal when you're doing things

530
00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:11,330
Speaker 2: like that. And he was just a loose unit and

531
00:25:11,710 --> 00:25:16,350
Speaker 2: just very violent. But he'd taken up with a female,

532
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:19,250
Speaker 2: introduced her to ice, and they decided that they were–

533
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:21,750
Speaker 2: and as I say, he'd been wanted for a number

534
00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:26,860
Speaker 2: of offences. We, again, we saw him on the highway,

535
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: got a call the highway. We were travelling behind him

536
00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: because she'd got called off. We see him going to

537
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: a cane farm basically along the street in the distance.

538
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,470
Speaker 2: But it was at an area that I knew fairly well.

539
00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:44,109
Speaker 2: So I knew the only way that he'd come out

540
00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:48,390
Speaker 2: was in this particular area here, in this particular driveway.

541
00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:50,010
Speaker 2: I thought that's the way he has to come out.

542
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:53,730
Speaker 2: There's no option. So I parked my car on that

543
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:57,969
Speaker 2: spot and it was only five minutes later I see

544
00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:01,490
Speaker 2: him come out of this particular road. Now he could

545
00:26:01,530 --> 00:26:03,710
Speaker 2: have probably reversed back that way, but there was nowhere

546
00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:05,430
Speaker 2: to go because that had been shut off by another

547
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:09,699
Speaker 2: uniformed car. And in front of us was this big driver,

548
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:15,810
Speaker 2: this big steep driveway. But there was a fence, a

549
00:26:15,850 --> 00:26:18,189
Speaker 2: wire chain fence that was there. So I had no option.

550
00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:22,030
Speaker 2: The only way he could go was through me. I

551
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:26,210
Speaker 2: was sitting in front. Behind me was my partner in

552
00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:29,350
Speaker 2: another dog squad car behind me. And we knew we

553
00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:31,790
Speaker 2: had him fairly well contained. There was no way he

554
00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:34,340
Speaker 2: was going to get away this time. So he had

555
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,580
Speaker 2: to drive through me or drive through the fence. I thought, well,

556
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: he's not going to do that. Should have known because

557
00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: that's what he does. He comes straight at me. I

558
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,300
Speaker 2: remember it was like at the old duel in the movies,

559
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,710
Speaker 2: you see. I turned my lights on and he turned

560
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:51,949
Speaker 2: his lights on and we revved our engines together. And,

561
00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:53,970
Speaker 2: of course, he just ran straight into the front of

562
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:57,609
Speaker 2: my car and didn't disable my car. But just I

563
00:26:57,650 --> 00:26:59,250
Speaker 2: didn't get a bit of a shock. I thought, is

564
00:26:59,270 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: he really going to do this? It's just like. Is

565
00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: this real? Is this real? So he ran my car

566
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: and then he's reversed up and turned his car around

567
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:12,179
Speaker 2: and driven straight through this massive big gate and took

568
00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: it down. It was two meters high. So going up

569
00:27:14,619 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 2: the top there. My partner's then overtaken me because I thought,

570
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,179
Speaker 2: is my car going to go? He's overtaken me and

571
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: started chasing towards the top. They got to the top

572
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: of this hill and there's an embankment. There's a house

573
00:27:23,740 --> 00:27:28,460
Speaker 2: behind us there. And And old mate, the baddie, has

574
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:30,900
Speaker 2: decided he's going to ram my partner's car because my

575
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:32,540
Speaker 2: partner parked in front of him to stop him from

576
00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: going anywhere. He was a fairly big four-wheel driver, was

577
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,090
Speaker 2: a Triton. This bloke had a big Toyota Land Cruiser.

578
00:27:37,550 --> 00:27:40,070
Speaker 2: So he reversed up and started smashing into the side

579
00:27:40,190 --> 00:27:44,649
Speaker 2: of my partner's car. I've come up behind him and

580
00:27:44,670 --> 00:27:46,770
Speaker 2: I've gone, oh, here we go. Like he's pushing him

581
00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: to the side of this cliff. And I thought he's

582
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: going to push him over the side. So I ran

583
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:56,470
Speaker 2: my car into the side of the baddie's car. And

584
00:27:56,830 --> 00:27:59,450
Speaker 2: then another police car, the DDO, he was a great bloke.

585
00:27:59,470 --> 00:28:02,710
Speaker 2: He's come up and rammed into, um, the back wheels

586
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,990
Speaker 2: to stop the car from going. So there's all these

587
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: written off police cars. And, um, what, uh, what happened

588
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,460
Speaker 2: is then I've managed to run around there to measure

589
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,260
Speaker 2: drag the spoke through the, through the window. Cause the

590
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,100
Speaker 2: car didn't stop. He, he, one of the cars had

591
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: got underneath the car and actually lifted the back wheels.

592
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:22,460
Speaker 2: It was funny. And the wheels were just spinning, spinning, spinning, spinning, spinning. And, um,

593
00:28:23,530 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: So we managed to get hold of that. But I

594
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 2: remember getting out of the car and looking, there's lights going,

595
00:28:27,660 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 2: there's just damage lights. There's just chaos everywhere. There's all

596
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,389
Speaker 2: these fences of vehicle, police vehicles around and lights and

597
00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:36,750
Speaker 2: sirens going off and everything like that. But when we

598
00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:40,170
Speaker 2: got interviewed in relation to it, my partner actually had

599
00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:43,550
Speaker 2: to get in his interview and basically say that he

600
00:28:43,570 --> 00:28:46,290
Speaker 2: feared for his life and that I was his hero

601
00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:48,170
Speaker 2: for saving his life just to get us out of trouble,

602
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:51,050
Speaker 2: I think. It was a bit of a tough pill

603
00:28:51,090 --> 00:28:51,490
Speaker 2: to swallow.

604
00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of all the forms and all the paperwork.

605
00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: You see that stuff on TV and everyone just wanders

606
00:28:58,340 --> 00:28:59,620
Speaker 1: or walks away from it.

607
00:28:59,620 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: A few days later when the bill came in for

608
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: all the damaged police cars, because on the night you

609
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: rang the boss and said, hey, mate, I've done this.

610
00:29:05,540 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: Oh, great.

611
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,220
Speaker 2: You got him. Fantastic. But It's two or three days

612
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:10,770
Speaker 2: later and they go, oh, what's this cost us? You know,

613
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:12,690
Speaker 2: that's when they get all the pennies.

614
00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:16,030
Speaker 1: When the excitement's dropped off, yeah, and then the paperwork

615
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:19,570
Speaker 1: and then the bills come in. Talking climate with dogs,

616
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:22,510
Speaker 1: and maybe this is an indication of the New South

617
00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:25,750
Speaker 1: Wales dogs not being as tough as the Queensland dogs,

618
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:28,890
Speaker 1: but I know when I've had dog squad people out,

619
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: sometimes they say if the weather's too hot, they're not

620
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,580
Speaker 1: going to work. We're not going to get much from

621
00:29:33,620 --> 00:29:35,780
Speaker 1: the dog. How does that play out in Cairns?

622
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think these dogs get climatised and... and that's

623
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,100
Speaker 2: quite a possibility. But look, I've done a few courses

624
00:29:44,140 --> 00:29:49,070
Speaker 2: with a few American dog trainers recently. And it's changed

625
00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:51,350
Speaker 2: my whole perspective on dog training. And now I've got,

626
00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:56,630
Speaker 2: I train dogs for other government organizations now. And I've

627
00:29:56,650 --> 00:29:59,490
Speaker 2: got these dogs tracking in 30 degree heat at 2 p.m.

628
00:29:59,510 --> 00:30:01,650
Speaker 2: in the afternoon. And I'm just surprised at how they go.

629
00:30:01,870 --> 00:30:02,910
Speaker 2: I would never have done that when I was in

630
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:05,070
Speaker 2: the coppers because it was just, it was a bit

631
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:08,100
Speaker 2: of a myth to say that they're not tracking. As

632
00:30:08,150 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: I say, I've changed my whole attitude on that because

633
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,580
Speaker 2: now I know that they can do. And if I

634
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:15,260
Speaker 2: had have taken that advice on board earlier in my career,

635
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:18,010
Speaker 2: I would have tripled the amount of people I got,

636
00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:18,650
Speaker 2: I'm sure.

637
00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:21,750
Speaker 1: Okay. Because that was something you were concerned about with

638
00:30:21,770 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: the heat and the overworking.

639
00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:26,060
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. And it's something. And you've also got

640
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,100
Speaker 2: to watch the dog because the dog will track itself

641
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,420
Speaker 2: till it dies. Yeah. So you've got to really be

642
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,140
Speaker 2: careful that it doesn't. Because you've got the thrill of

643
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:36,500
Speaker 2: the chase as well. So you're just going to push

644
00:30:36,540 --> 00:30:38,700
Speaker 2: that dog as far as you can. And so you've

645
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: got to really watch the dog.

646
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

647
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: I think it's not so much that they won't track

648
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,020
Speaker 2: in the heat, it's just that we want to make

649
00:30:44,060 --> 00:30:46,700
Speaker 2: sure that their welfare is the most important thing.

650
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,860
Speaker 1: And the harness that the dogs would wear when they're

651
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,500
Speaker 1: on the lead, is there anything about the harness that's

652
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,260
Speaker 1: a little bit different?

653
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the dog has certain triggers. If it's, you know,

654
00:30:58,660 --> 00:31:01,710
Speaker 2: it may be the word, the command to bite or

655
00:31:01,730 --> 00:31:06,670
Speaker 2: it may be, but when you're doing a track, I

656
00:31:06,690 --> 00:31:07,870
Speaker 2: think it's the same all the way around, but this

657
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: is the way I teach tracking anyway. As soon as

658
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: that dog's at the tracking area or close to it,

659
00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:15,620
Speaker 2: the harness goes on and the command seek as well

660
00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: as that click of the harness are triggers for that

661
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,260
Speaker 2: dog to start, put his nose down and start following.

662
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:23,740
Speaker 2: So that's pretty important. Once the track's done, that harness

663
00:31:23,790 --> 00:31:26,910
Speaker 2: comes off again and doesn't go on until there's another track.

664
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:29,969
Speaker 2: So the dog understands, associates tracking with the harness.

665
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:33,210
Speaker 1: Okay. So that's sort of a switch on and switch

666
00:31:33,270 --> 00:31:35,970
Speaker 1: off scenario. Like we want to take the kid off,

667
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: they relax, kick goes on. ready to go.

668
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: They're ready to go again. Yeah.

669
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:47,090
Speaker 1: That's interesting. There's another one where, again, you and vehicles,

670
00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:50,030
Speaker 1: you're on a vehicle that's moving, you're punching the driver

671
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:52,770
Speaker 1: through the window. And I think it ended in a

672
00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:56,310
Speaker 1: side roundhouse kick and the dog biting him or something.

673
00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:58,620
Speaker 1: What was that one about?

674
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: There was another bloke who'd been wanted for, you know,

675
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:07,180
Speaker 2: and this, again, I think the pursuit probably comes in here.

676
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: Like back in the day, these offenders would have been

677
00:32:09,460 --> 00:32:11,709
Speaker 2: rounded up very quickly, but they know that they can

678
00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:13,210
Speaker 2: get away with it. So often they go and they

679
00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:15,730
Speaker 2: hop in cars. So this bloke has won 135 offences.

680
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:18,910
Speaker 2: So he was pretty well wanted for unlawful use of

681
00:32:18,930 --> 00:32:23,230
Speaker 2: motor vehicle, armed robbery, break and enters, just a whole

682
00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:27,900
Speaker 2: lot of offences. And I was actually at an OSC's

683
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: conference yesterday. at that stage, which is boring, sitting in

684
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:32,700
Speaker 2: an office listening to, you know.

685
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: Lucky you got the call.

686
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Where are we going to, where our new

687
00:32:38,940 --> 00:32:42,220
Speaker 2: APIs are and all that type of bullshit that goes on. So,

688
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:45,210
Speaker 2: and the inspector came in and he said, mate, this

689
00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:49,310
Speaker 2: bloke's been seen down at, again, Innisfail, and he's just

690
00:32:49,390 --> 00:32:52,910
Speaker 2: tried to run over a policewoman. I said, no worries,

691
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: I'll get down there. As I'm driving down there, There's

692
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: a call to say that old mate has been seen.

693
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:03,780
Speaker 2: He just stolen a RAV4 from the golf course, the

694
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: local golf course. I said, no worries at all. And

695
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:07,820
Speaker 2: I was driving past the street. So I dipped down

696
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,380
Speaker 2: that street. And as I'm going forward towards the golf course,

697
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: I see this RAV4 coming straight for me. And he's

698
00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:15,820
Speaker 2: going to hit me. And I'm not that brave. So

699
00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:17,940
Speaker 2: I pulled to the side of the road. I didn't

700
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,070
Speaker 2: even go past. But behind that was another police car following.

701
00:33:21,170 --> 00:33:23,590
Speaker 2: lights and sirens on. So I quickly did a U-turn

702
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: and got in the little trio. Again, too dangerous to

703
00:33:26,340 --> 00:33:29,820
Speaker 2: call it off, so we let it go. But then

704
00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: after you stop a chase, you can then start patrolling

705
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: for the vehicle in case he's dumped it, which is

706
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,420
Speaker 2: what your hope is. If you see it again, you

707
00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: can reinitiate the pursuit. So we started, all of a sudden,

708
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: within 10 minutes, we get calls on the Palmerston Highway,

709
00:33:46,770 --> 00:33:48,490
Speaker 2: which is about 10 minutes out of town, to say

710
00:33:48,850 --> 00:33:52,060
Speaker 2: this car had been seen driving erratically. So we all

711
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,700
Speaker 2: headed that way and I'm driving up and down these

712
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: little farms and the Palmerston Highway off to the side,

713
00:33:57,270 --> 00:34:02,930
Speaker 2: little banana farms everywhere and dirt roads. So I was

714
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:05,290
Speaker 2: patrolling in this dirt road. All of a sudden, the

715
00:34:05,310 --> 00:34:07,770
Speaker 2: radio comes. We found him. He's on foot. He's in

716
00:34:07,810 --> 00:34:09,989
Speaker 2: a banana farm. I went, oh, okay. And they said

717
00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: Johnson Road or whatever. And I've gone and tried to

718
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: get on the radio, but the radio is really crowded

719
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:17,460
Speaker 2: with people talking. I'm saying, where's Johnson Road? Where's Johnson Road?

720
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: Got the dog, got the dog. Tell me where it

721
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: is and I'll get a track. But I couldn't get

722
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: on properly. And so I pulled to the side of

723
00:34:24,140 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: the road to key in the coordinates in the bloody sat-nav.

724
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,660
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden out of this banana farm

725
00:34:34,050 --> 00:34:36,500
Speaker 2: runs old mate. And I went, how lucky am I?

726
00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:38,910
Speaker 2: So I quickly run out. Vader at this time has

727
00:34:38,969 --> 00:34:41,890
Speaker 2: spied him and seen him. So I've run around the

728
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:43,989
Speaker 2: back and I haven't given no lead or anything. I've

729
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:46,730
Speaker 2: just gone, nobody else is around. So I've gone, Vader.

730
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:49,250
Speaker 2: rouse you know off you go chase him down and

731
00:34:49,310 --> 00:34:52,069
Speaker 2: tackle him so off vader goes starts running and me

732
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: behind you know distance back and i see in the

733
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,460
Speaker 2: distance a red four-wheel drive the farmer's car on the

734
00:35:00,739 --> 00:35:02,500
Speaker 2: road and i thought he's going to get shelter in

735
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,050
Speaker 2: there so of course he runs over there and i

736
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:06,350
Speaker 2: thought it's going to be close the dogs are going

737
00:35:06,370 --> 00:35:09,710
Speaker 2: to get him you know you wouldn't you wouldn't 50

738
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:12,910
Speaker 2: 50 percent each way and but the offender managed to

739
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:14,730
Speaker 2: get in the car and slam the door And the

740
00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:16,469
Speaker 2: dog has smashed his head on the side of the

741
00:35:16,489 --> 00:35:19,339
Speaker 2: car trying to get at him. And the dog didn't

742
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: get injured. He just got angry. And he started running

743
00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:25,219
Speaker 2: around this car. So I come 30 seconds later and

744
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: I've jumped on the side of this car. And the farmer,

745
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,620
Speaker 2: of course, being down there, wouldn't think somebody's going to

746
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:32,739
Speaker 2: steal it. So the keys are in it. So he

747
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,780
Speaker 2: reaches down. The offender reaches down and starts the car.

748
00:35:37,540 --> 00:35:40,410
Speaker 2: As luck would have it, it's a manual. So the

749
00:35:40,469 --> 00:35:42,630
Speaker 2: first time he's forgot to put the clutch in. And

750
00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:45,460
Speaker 2: the dog's running around as well. So I thought, well,

751
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: if he starts driving off, I'm buggered here. So I

752
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: reached in. I've just given him a good punch straight

753
00:35:50,219 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: to the side of the head and knocked him to

754
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: the other side of the car. And I've reached in

755
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: and he's turned the car off. He's come back. This

756
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:57,610
Speaker 2: time he's put the clutch in. And he started the

757
00:35:57,620 --> 00:36:02,250
Speaker 2: car and started driving off. And I've, once again, hit

758
00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:04,130
Speaker 2: him as hard as I could and knocked him to

759
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:06,270
Speaker 2: the other side of the car. But I'm holding on

760
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:07,549
Speaker 2: to the side of the car with one hand because

761
00:36:07,590 --> 00:36:10,069
Speaker 2: I'm on the step on the side there. Meanwhile, Dave

762
00:36:10,090 --> 00:36:12,980
Speaker 2: is running around trying to find an entry point and

763
00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: bark and bark, bark, bark, bark. So we're probably only

764
00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: going 10, 15 Ks an hour, but I can tell 10,

765
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,899
Speaker 2: 15 Ks, you don't want to fall off.

766
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:22,180
Speaker 1: No.

767
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,060
Speaker 2: He's come back again and he's reached in, started, because

768
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,060
Speaker 2: when I've knocked him to the side, it made me

769
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,219
Speaker 2: turn the car off again, but I couldn't get the

770
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:31,390
Speaker 2: keys out because of the lock and all this going on.

771
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: It's a dynamic situation. Everything's going on. Your brain's, it's

772
00:36:34,580 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 2: a sensory overload. So this time he's come back again,

773
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: but this time he looked at me and I thought,

774
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:42,549
Speaker 2: I've got him. I could see in his eyes. He'd

775
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:44,250
Speaker 2: been around for three or four months, but this time,

776
00:36:44,590 --> 00:36:46,690
Speaker 2: Take your time, three or four days without sleep, everything

777
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:48,450
Speaker 2: like that. And I knew I had him, so I've

778
00:36:48,590 --> 00:36:50,310
Speaker 2: unloaded on him as hard as I could this time,

779
00:36:50,330 --> 00:36:52,590
Speaker 2: and I've knocked him. And I've managed to reach and

780
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:54,089
Speaker 2: turn the car off. And at the same time, I've

781
00:36:54,130 --> 00:36:56,890
Speaker 2: jumped off the car. Keep in mind that we were going,

782
00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 2: you know, we'd slowed down a little bit by this time,

783
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,580
Speaker 2: but the car was still moving. I've managed to jump off,

784
00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: and I've reached in. I've ripped open the door, and

785
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: the dog's gone in this time and reached over and

786
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: grabbed him by the thigh. And we're trained for this.

787
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: We're trained for car extractions. So, but whether you get

788
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:16,339
Speaker 2: to ever use it in your career, probably not. But

789
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: this was one where the dogs reached in and just

790
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: grabbed him and just dragged him out. And it was

791
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,740
Speaker 2: just the best feeling in the world. The car wandered

792
00:37:22,780 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: on its merry way for another, for another, uh, you know,

793
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,420
Speaker 2: 50 meters. And I've been used to jump on top

794
00:37:28,460 --> 00:37:30,300
Speaker 2: of this bloke and, uh, break him into custody. It

795
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 2: was just such a good feeling.

796
00:37:31,820 --> 00:37:35,180
Speaker 1: Did, uh, your family know about all your adventures like this? Well,

797
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,310
Speaker 1: they would have known 45 times in a hospital getting,

798
00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:39,170
Speaker 1: getting treatment.

799
00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:42,390
Speaker 2: But, uh, Absolutely. The poor wife, she put up with

800
00:37:42,469 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: so much over the years and, you know, I can't

801
00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:49,060
Speaker 2: thank her enough. And not just like, I would often,

802
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: I would make a point that if I was conscious

803
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,060
Speaker 2: and I was in the back of an ambulance, I'd

804
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,500
Speaker 2: ring her and the amount of calls she's got to say, hey,

805
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,109
Speaker 2: and she goes, what have you done? And I say,

806
00:37:57,130 --> 00:37:59,009
Speaker 2: I'm in the back of an ambulance and I'm all right,

807
00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:00,629
Speaker 2: you know, I'm all right. That'd be my first thing.

808
00:38:00,690 --> 00:38:02,770
Speaker 2: I'm all right, but I'm going up to the ambulance,

809
00:38:02,810 --> 00:38:04,390
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going up because I've been injured. I've

810
00:38:04,410 --> 00:38:08,250
Speaker 2: been fractured. I've still got no feeling in the side

811
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:09,779
Speaker 2: of my hip where I fell once, you know, and

812
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,390
Speaker 2: things like that. So she put up with a lot

813
00:38:12,430 --> 00:38:15,629
Speaker 2: and often went up to the hospital and, you know,

814
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:17,770
Speaker 2: patched me up and sent me back out there, you know,

815
00:38:17,810 --> 00:38:19,870
Speaker 2: still need to eat, still need money, let's get back

816
00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:21,610
Speaker 2: onto it, you know. So, I mean, I had a

817
00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:24,510
Speaker 2: bloke rip open my finger one day, bit my finger

818
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:28,110
Speaker 2: and ripped it open and broke it, you know, from biting.

819
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:31,210
Speaker 2: And then I got a chunk out of my calf

820
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:33,870
Speaker 2: where old mate's taken a bite out of it, you know,

821
00:38:33,969 --> 00:38:36,610
Speaker 2: and just animals, you know, really animals.

822
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: Well, that's– and you're arresting them at that really sharp

823
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: end of it where they're on the run, they know

824
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,620
Speaker 1: they're on the run, the adrenaline spike, they're not laying

825
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 1: there asleep, you're not catching them off guard. They're pumped

826
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,980
Speaker 1: and ready to go. So that's why I would say

827
00:38:54,020 --> 00:38:58,029
Speaker 1: that you've been in so many violent conflicts because that's

828
00:38:58,070 --> 00:38:59,310
Speaker 1: the time you're trying to bring them down.

829
00:38:59,850 --> 00:39:05,109
Speaker 2: Yeah, and haven't won everyone. I had one bloke where he–

830
00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:07,390
Speaker 2: um i did a bit of a chase and he

831
00:39:07,410 --> 00:39:09,930
Speaker 2: was waiting for me uh i've come around the corner

832
00:39:09,950 --> 00:39:12,450
Speaker 2: of a a house and he was waiting there for

833
00:39:12,469 --> 00:39:14,290
Speaker 2: me he's belted me and split me i i get

834
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:16,029
Speaker 2: stitches in the eye from it knocked me to the

835
00:39:16,070 --> 00:39:17,390
Speaker 2: ground we got a bit of a wrestle and he

836
00:39:17,410 --> 00:39:19,069
Speaker 2: was on top of me he had me there's no

837
00:39:19,110 --> 00:39:21,469
Speaker 2: doubt about it big big strong young fella six foot

838
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:23,790
Speaker 2: eight muscly that's my excuse anyway.

839
00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:29,020
Speaker 1: He must have been huge yeah um dogs injuries any

840
00:39:29,180 --> 00:39:32,420
Speaker 1: any significant injuries with the dogs in the work that

841
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,180
Speaker 1: they do they.

842
00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:37,940
Speaker 2: Do get injured occasionally uh just mostly sprains and strains

843
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: we've never lost a dog on duty up here as

844
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,969
Speaker 2: such surprise more more good luck the good management i

845
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:50,550
Speaker 2: think um I had my dog, Vader, one day jump

846
00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:54,300
Speaker 2: the fence and broke his little dewclaw, took it in

847
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 2: the vet the next day and the vet said he

848
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:59,540
Speaker 2: doesn't need it anyway and just dropped it off basically

849
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:00,819
Speaker 2: and give me a couple of days off, mate, he's

850
00:40:00,860 --> 00:40:03,450
Speaker 2: back out there, you know, and things like that that happened.

851
00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:07,750
Speaker 2: But generally speaking, a lot of strains. But a good

852
00:40:07,770 --> 00:40:09,330
Speaker 2: thing about it is we're not paying for the vet bills.

853
00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:12,589
Speaker 2: So if that dog does have a cough or something's

854
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:14,509
Speaker 2: a little bit different, Straight on to the vet, and

855
00:40:14,530 --> 00:40:15,410
Speaker 2: the vet was really good here.

856
00:40:15,530 --> 00:40:18,150
Speaker 1: What's the relationship with the family and friends when they

857
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:21,029
Speaker 1: come round? Can they switch off? Are they allowed to

858
00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:22,950
Speaker 1: have them near children or that?

859
00:40:24,070 --> 00:40:28,370
Speaker 2: Again, depending on the dog. Now knowing dogs the way

860
00:40:28,450 --> 00:40:30,870
Speaker 2: I do, because I've learned a lot since I've left

861
00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:34,379
Speaker 2: the police just through my studies, I probably wouldn't put

862
00:40:34,410 --> 00:40:41,370
Speaker 2: a police dog around any child. Definitely not unsupervised. Um,

863
00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:44,310
Speaker 2: but just in the way that dogs, you know, that

864
00:40:44,350 --> 00:40:47,190
Speaker 2: they are, they are animals and, um, I wouldn't worry

865
00:40:47,230 --> 00:40:50,770
Speaker 2: about it, but my dogs were running around with, um,

866
00:40:50,810 --> 00:40:52,489
Speaker 2: with my kids all the time. You know, we've got

867
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:56,650
Speaker 2: videos of stuff like that. Um, more, more of the

868
00:40:56,690 --> 00:41:00,390
Speaker 2: Z type dog. The buddy was pretty good. Um, but

869
00:41:00,410 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: when they're at work mode, they're at work mode and

870
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:04,620
Speaker 2: that's when they, when they're, they're particularly vicious.

871
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: Now, sadly, yours and Vader's excellent adventure came to a

872
00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: sad end. What happened there?

873
00:41:13,660 --> 00:41:18,940
Speaker 2: Well, just one night, I just put him away as usual.

874
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 2: He was off his food, which was unusual for him.

875
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,540
Speaker 2: Went back to bed. I thought if he's crook in

876
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,859
Speaker 2: the morning, I'll just take him to the vet. Woke

877
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: up and, yeah, I found him in the kennel dead.

878
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,390
Speaker 2: And we think it was a snake bite.

879
00:41:32,830 --> 00:41:34,609
Speaker 1: Right, yeah.

880
00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:38,900
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not quite sure. Um, it took him to obviously, uh, I,

881
00:41:39,660 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: the vet, I wanted the vet to do a autopsy

882
00:41:42,910 --> 00:41:47,069
Speaker 2: on him, but they couldn't find anything that specifically that

883
00:41:47,110 --> 00:41:49,110
Speaker 2: had gone wrong with him, but they, they suspected it

884
00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:49,810
Speaker 2: was a snake bite.

885
00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:52,589
Speaker 1: Oh, that's sad. How, how does that affect you?

886
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:56,410
Speaker 2: Oh, obviously very, very difficult, but I don't think it

887
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:59,530
Speaker 2: affects us any more than your normal family pet. You know,

888
00:41:59,570 --> 00:42:01,009
Speaker 2: we've got a, we've got a family pet here now

889
00:42:01,050 --> 00:42:03,140
Speaker 2: and he's the most beautiful dog in the world. And

890
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,450
Speaker 2: when he goes, I'll feel exactly the same thing. But

891
00:42:05,469 --> 00:42:07,210
Speaker 2: that's probably why I won't have any more dogs after

892
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:09,210
Speaker 2: this one's gone, that they're just too hard to say

893
00:42:09,230 --> 00:42:11,270
Speaker 2: goodbye to. You know, they really are difficult to go

894
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 2: to goodbye to. So you are working with this dog constantly, continuously,

895
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: but is it any better than, you know, your normal

896
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 2: family pet? Everybody feels the same way about their dogs,

897
00:42:23,660 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: you know. So, yeah. But the good thing about the police, though, is,

898
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,590
Speaker 2: as I say, is if the dog dies one day

899
00:42:29,610 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: and Within a few days, you're down getting another one

900
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: because they're a resource. You've got to get back out there,

901
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: get back on the horse. So you don't have time

902
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,070
Speaker 2: to grieve. You don't have time. When I lost Axel here,

903
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:43,990
Speaker 2: the Lions Club in the community put up a statue

904
00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:46,529
Speaker 2: of his exploits. I've got another book coming out, which

905
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:50,930
Speaker 2: is entitled Axel, about his exploits. And he was such

906
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:54,390
Speaker 2: a legend around in the community here that they actually

907
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:56,070
Speaker 2: put a statue up here. So he sits proudly at

908
00:42:56,110 --> 00:42:58,609
Speaker 2: one of the local dog parks, the Malmacastra Dog Park,

909
00:42:58,630 --> 00:43:01,390
Speaker 2: which you've got in Cairns here. Yeah, great thing.

910
00:43:02,050 --> 00:43:06,460
Speaker 1: That's a nice tribute to him. But with Axel and I,

911
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:08,669
Speaker 1: when we were chatting the other day, I was having

912
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:11,589
Speaker 1: a laugh because, you know, when you're in the cops

913
00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: long enough and you're partners and, you know, I was

914
00:43:14,890 --> 00:43:18,540
Speaker 1: the annoying young detective working with the grisly old detective

915
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: sergeant that I wanted to just get out and arrest

916
00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:23,779
Speaker 1: the bad guys. Can we do this? Can we do this? Annoying.

917
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: As I worked my way through the career, I had

918
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,420
Speaker 1: young people that I worked with or more junior that

919
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,750
Speaker 1: were overzealous and you had to rein them in a

920
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:36,530
Speaker 1: little bit. And then you're talking about Axel and you've

921
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:38,390
Speaker 1: been doing this for a long time and you've got

922
00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:40,370
Speaker 1: this young dog that just wanted to get out there

923
00:43:40,410 --> 00:43:42,589
Speaker 1: and get amongst it all the time. And I had

924
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:45,109
Speaker 1: to laugh because it's similar to a partner that you

925
00:43:45,130 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: get in work where you're not quite matched in terms

926
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: of what you want to do. Tell us about your

927
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,180
Speaker 1: experiences with Axel.

928
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:56,219
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, yeah. He was a... Pretty full-on dog, as

929
00:43:56,260 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: was my last one, Jed, as well. And when you

930
00:43:58,540 --> 00:44:00,899
Speaker 2: get to a certain age, you really don't. It's like

931
00:44:01,580 --> 00:44:05,380
Speaker 2: I can't imagine why at 60 or 65 you're going

932
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,790
Speaker 2: to have no kids. Yeah, yeah. You know, like having

933
00:44:07,830 --> 00:44:09,250
Speaker 2: a little kid that you've got to run around with.

934
00:44:09,310 --> 00:44:10,850
Speaker 2: It's the same with the police dog. You know, the

935
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:13,690
Speaker 2: dog was so energetic and ready to go. And I

936
00:44:13,730 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: remember my first job I ever had with Axel. was

937
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,219
Speaker 2: 2 o'clock in the morning, phone rings, of course, I

938
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 2: get up there and Axel's just so keen to get

939
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:25,529
Speaker 2: out there and I open up the gate and he's

940
00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:28,190
Speaker 2: jumped on me and I've been covered in mud from

941
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:31,350
Speaker 2: his uniform, all my uniform from this dog just so

942
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:33,830
Speaker 2: keen to get out there and jump around. I really

943
00:44:33,890 --> 00:44:36,370
Speaker 2: struggled with it for a long time with his enthusiasm

944
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:38,549
Speaker 2: and stuff like that because I'd get my dog out

945
00:44:38,570 --> 00:44:40,210
Speaker 2: and I'd just sit on the track and do whatever

946
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:42,230
Speaker 2: he had to do. But this one just wanted to

947
00:44:42,270 --> 00:44:44,069
Speaker 2: get out there really quickly and go, go, go, go.

948
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,339
Speaker 2: I think there's a story called the old bull, young

949
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,380
Speaker 2: bull story. I think that's what it is.

950
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

951
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:51,180
Speaker 2: You know, the old bull and the young bull, they

952
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 2: just wanted to get out there and get a, you'll

953
00:44:52,460 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: get yourself hurt, mate.

954
00:44:53,820 --> 00:44:56,259
Speaker 1: How did they react when you got called out? Was

955
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: excitement like the two o'clock morning call out and all

956
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden it's on? Was that sort of?

957
00:45:01,780 --> 00:45:03,940
Speaker 2: On one part it was, on one part it was,

958
00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:09,969
Speaker 2: and you would, you would go get ready, you'd have

959
00:45:09,989 --> 00:45:11,910
Speaker 2: your uniform ready to go, but you'd quickly get up

960
00:45:12,010 --> 00:45:15,140
Speaker 2: and usually stunk because you'd been working for the night before.

961
00:45:15,219 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: Uniform would stink, so you'd grab on the deodorant. As

962
00:45:17,820 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 2: soon as you just spray the deodorant on, the dog

963
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,620
Speaker 2: up the kennel, which would be, in my place, it's

964
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,259
Speaker 2: probably 20, 30 metres away, the dog would smell the

965
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,959
Speaker 2: deodorant and start crying in the kennel.

966
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:27,100
Speaker 1: Oh, they knew it was on.

967
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:29,509
Speaker 2: They knew it was on. They knew a job was going. Well,

968
00:45:29,530 --> 00:45:31,150
Speaker 2: they'd hear the phone or something like that at all

969
00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:31,850
Speaker 2: hours of the morning.

970
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: The ears prick up.

971
00:45:32,770 --> 00:45:34,509
Speaker 2: You'd hear them crying. Yep, yep. So you'd have to

972
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:35,710
Speaker 2: go and put him in the car and then come

973
00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:39,470
Speaker 2: and get yourself organised. I did one job once where...

974
00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:42,779
Speaker 2: I put on deodorant, and I went, oh, bloody hell,

975
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,500
Speaker 2: the dog started crying. So I went out. I said,

976
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,410
Speaker 2: just be quiet, you know, and I raced back in.

977
00:45:50,110 --> 00:45:53,669
Speaker 2: And at that time, I ran out, but I didn't

978
00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:54,770
Speaker 2: put him in the back of the car because I

979
00:45:54,770 --> 00:45:56,730
Speaker 2: felt my glasses. I raced back and got my glasses

980
00:45:57,390 --> 00:45:59,630
Speaker 2: and then raced off to the job. And I got

981
00:45:59,670 --> 00:46:01,170
Speaker 2: to this job where there was a young kid who

982
00:46:01,190 --> 00:46:05,260
Speaker 2: had slept well, and off he goes. And the inspector's gone, Dave,

983
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: this is what's happened, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, no.

984
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:09,020
Speaker 2: So I went back, opened up the back of the car,

985
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,620
Speaker 2: And the dog's not in there. I'd forgotten him. So

986
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: I'd gone 40 minutes, lights and sirens to this job,

987
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 2: and had no dog in there. I went, what am

988
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:21,290
Speaker 2: I going to do? You know, embarrassing. Because I'd walked out, gone, yeah,

989
00:46:21,310 --> 00:46:23,310
Speaker 2: I'll get the dog, get my glasses, come back out,

990
00:46:23,330 --> 00:46:26,050
Speaker 2: just hopped into the car, half asleep and off I'd gone. Anyway,

991
00:46:26,110 --> 00:46:28,310
Speaker 2: so I went, I've got to fess up. So I

992
00:46:28,330 --> 00:46:30,650
Speaker 2: just hopped out of the car, walked over to the inspector, said, inspector,

993
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:32,430
Speaker 2: can I see you for a second? He says, yeah, no,

994
00:46:32,469 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: won't be a second. And at that second, behind me,

995
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: I hear this sound from one of these uniformed coppers go,

996
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 2: found him. And I went, oh. I went, what? I said,

997
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: they found him. I said, oh, okay, boss, don't worry

998
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:44,900
Speaker 2: about it. I'll just take my dog over. He said, yeah, mate,

999
00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: no worries, I'll take you home. So I'm going to

1000
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: just get rid of that one.

1001
00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: Dodge the embarrassment.

1002
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah.

1003
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,069
Speaker 1: What was the work you did over in Cambodia with

1004
00:46:55,150 --> 00:46:57,029
Speaker 1: drug detection dogs? What was that all about?

1005
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,229
Speaker 2: Yeah, a mate of mine, he rang me and basically said,

1006
00:47:01,989 --> 00:47:03,489
Speaker 2: what are you doing after you retire? And I said,

1007
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:04,910
Speaker 2: I've got no idea. And he said, well, why don't

1008
00:47:04,930 --> 00:47:08,069
Speaker 2: you do consultancy work? And I went, well, where do

1009
00:47:08,110 --> 00:47:10,529
Speaker 2: I start? He said, why don't you come with Cambodia

1010
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: for starters? And Cambodia, I never thought anything about Cambodia

1011
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: or any consultancy work. So I went over there and

1012
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: he introduced me to a whole range of other duties

1013
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,110
Speaker 2: that dog handlers can do and one was um uh

1014
00:47:27,590 --> 00:47:31,130
Speaker 2: landmine detection dogs which he was training over there i

1015
00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:33,529
Speaker 2: went over there originally to help with that type of

1016
00:47:33,550 --> 00:47:36,589
Speaker 2: stuff but once they saw my background they involved me

1017
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:39,150
Speaker 2: into their military and policing side of stuff for the

1018
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:42,509
Speaker 2: tactical dogs which was great teaching tracking and things like

1019
00:47:42,530 --> 00:47:46,500
Speaker 2: that and um uh and i a big ignorant of

1020
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,620
Speaker 2: the fact of cambodia because of what went on there

1021
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:51,580
Speaker 2: in the 80s which is when i was at school

1022
00:47:52,410 --> 00:47:54,190
Speaker 2: It's a bit embarrassing to realize I didn't know the

1023
00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:56,549
Speaker 2: history of that, but the loveliest people in the world.

1024
00:47:56,590 --> 00:47:59,430
Speaker 2: And one thing that really sticks with me is those

1025
00:47:59,489 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: people have got nothing over there. They get paid hardly anything.

1026
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: They've got nice hospitals and nice city and stuff like that,

1027
00:48:05,980 --> 00:48:08,340
Speaker 2: but they've got nothing. But their suicide rate is half

1028
00:48:08,380 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: hours or even a third of hours. We've got everything

1029
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,260
Speaker 2: here and yet we're unhappy. I just don't really understand.

1030
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,370
Speaker 2: That's one thing that stands out with with a place

1031
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:18,370
Speaker 2: like Cambodia.

1032
00:48:18,830 --> 00:48:22,450
Speaker 1: It's interesting, isn't it? The places I've travelled, the poorer countries,

1033
00:48:22,850 --> 00:48:26,850
Speaker 1: everyone's happy. And they could be sitting down an alleyway,

1034
00:48:26,969 --> 00:48:32,069
Speaker 1: the whole family cooking dinner, but happy. And it does

1035
00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:35,210
Speaker 1: say a lot about the way our society's gone and

1036
00:48:35,350 --> 00:48:39,180
Speaker 1: the direction we're heading in. We've lost that sense of

1037
00:48:39,219 --> 00:48:45,669
Speaker 1: community and the communication. Look at our iPads and whatnot. Yeah, yeah. Look,

1038
00:48:45,850 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: the career you've had, I think is absolutely extraordinary. Like

1039
00:48:50,820 --> 00:48:52,979
Speaker 1: as in when you sign up to join the cops,

1040
00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:55,299
Speaker 1: you want the adventure, you want the excitement, you want

1041
00:48:55,340 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: the thrill of the chase. And you managed to stay

1042
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,830
Speaker 1: in that spot for 26 years. I'm sure you forewent

1043
00:49:02,910 --> 00:49:06,650
Speaker 1: promotions or opportunities in different things. Looking back, do you

1044
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:08,110
Speaker 1: have any regrets whatsoever? No.

1045
00:49:09,310 --> 00:49:11,830
Speaker 2: Uh, funny, not, not on my own career. I, I did,

1046
00:49:12,090 --> 00:49:13,230
Speaker 2: I must admit there were a couple of things that

1047
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:15,350
Speaker 2: I wanted to do before I leave the police. And

1048
00:49:15,950 --> 00:49:19,089
Speaker 2: one of my whole ambitions was to help, a female.

1049
00:49:19,110 --> 00:49:21,970
Speaker 2: We've got no female GP handlers here in the whole

1050
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: of Queensland. And I just find that a little disappointing

1051
00:49:25,860 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: and I'm probably going to get, get shouted down for that,

1052
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 2: but I don't really care because, you know, and we

1053
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:34,060
Speaker 2: do get institutionalized. We do get institutionalized and we care

1054
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,020
Speaker 2: for what we say, but I realize now I can

1055
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: say anything I want because the QPS has been fantastic

1056
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,069
Speaker 2: to me and the best career I've But it's one

1057
00:49:40,090 --> 00:49:42,870
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to do is get a female into

1058
00:49:42,910 --> 00:49:45,970
Speaker 2: the thing. And I think it's just a real macho

1059
00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:49,790
Speaker 2: attitude in that it's such an adrenaline rush job that

1060
00:49:50,310 --> 00:49:52,210
Speaker 2: a female couldn't do it. And I think that's far

1061
00:49:52,270 --> 00:49:54,549
Speaker 2: from the thing. America, they're getting shot at and they've

1062
00:49:54,570 --> 00:49:57,830
Speaker 2: got so many female dog handlers over there. And I

1063
00:49:57,850 --> 00:49:59,629
Speaker 2: think that's one thing that I really tried to push

1064
00:49:59,670 --> 00:50:03,529
Speaker 2: before I left. And I mentored two or three young

1065
00:50:03,630 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: women who would have been fantastic dog handlers and You know,

1066
00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: those three are still waiting for jobs and it's a

1067
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: real shame and couldn't do anything from inside. Maybe I

1068
00:50:12,660 --> 00:50:15,430
Speaker 2: can help from the outside and just say it's time,

1069
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:17,610
Speaker 2: you know, Queensland, get yourself sorted.

1070
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:19,850
Speaker 1: I think just talking about it is a good thing

1071
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:24,190
Speaker 1: and it can become a cultural thing that, yeah, we

1072
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:26,149
Speaker 1: can't have a woman here. We've never had a woman

1073
00:50:26,550 --> 00:50:29,850
Speaker 1: or that. It should judge on its merits and, yeah,

1074
00:50:30,270 --> 00:50:32,709
Speaker 1: with your experience in martial arts, you know, there's plenty

1075
00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:35,049
Speaker 1: of women out there that could do the type of

1076
00:50:35,090 --> 00:50:37,570
Speaker 1: work that– needs to be done as a dog handler.

1077
00:50:37,590 --> 00:50:38,750
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.

1078
00:50:38,890 --> 00:50:41,469
Speaker 1: And probably bring another skill set too that, you know,

1079
00:50:41,730 --> 00:50:43,770
Speaker 1: looking at it from a different perspective from a male

1080
00:50:43,850 --> 00:50:44,209
Speaker 1: as well.

1081
00:50:44,350 --> 00:50:48,290
Speaker 2: So, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And these girls

1082
00:50:48,310 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: I've been mentoring have been very capable, very capable, you know.

1083
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: So that's one of my regrets when I leave. You know,

1084
00:50:56,739 --> 00:50:58,899
Speaker 2: I tried that a couple of years beforehand. The other

1085
00:50:59,060 --> 00:51:03,500
Speaker 2: one I think my regrets I had is I started

1086
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 2: a little program which was recognising, because I don't think

1087
00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: the police get recognised for what they do. It's like,

1088
00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:13,299
Speaker 2: and no disrespect to the bosses of that type of stuff,

1089
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,259
Speaker 2: they've got so much, they've got the rosters, they've got PPAs,

1090
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,969
Speaker 2: they've got all these, performance management, they've got all these

1091
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:20,569
Speaker 2: other things that they've got to worry about. The last

1092
00:51:20,610 --> 00:51:22,989
Speaker 2: thing they want to do is recognise their staff for

1093
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:26,509
Speaker 2: great work. Whereas I took that and I started a

1094
00:51:26,530 --> 00:51:28,930
Speaker 2: little project called the Recognise Project, which the QPS has

1095
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: taken on from what I can gather now, that we

1096
00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:33,819
Speaker 2: really need to recognise these people. You know, there were

1097
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,250
Speaker 2: people chasing people with guns and And it's just like, oh, yeah, whatever.

1098
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:41,590
Speaker 2: And one of my regrets was not getting that properly

1099
00:51:41,630 --> 00:51:44,430
Speaker 2: set up before I left. And a bit of a

1100
00:51:44,469 --> 00:51:47,450
Speaker 2: pushback because you'd also get some people who are sitting

1101
00:51:47,469 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 2: in those offices, again, no disrespect, but they'd be going,

1102
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,820
Speaker 2: I've done that a million times, you know, like in

1103
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: my career, and I never got rewarded. Well, I think

1104
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,259
Speaker 2: it doesn't hurt to pat somebody on the back. And

1105
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 2: we're in a society, we're in an age now where

1106
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,489
Speaker 2: people do need that pat on the back. You know,

1107
00:52:02,550 --> 00:52:06,930
Speaker 2: everybody gets a medal. Everybody gets an award. Is that right?

1108
00:52:07,219 --> 00:52:09,460
Speaker 2: I don't care. If that's what they want, then let's

1109
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,129
Speaker 2: just reward them because I can tell you what, that

1110
00:52:11,230 --> 00:52:14,469
Speaker 2: really really boosts morale when people are rewarded for what

1111
00:52:14,510 --> 00:52:14,890
Speaker 2: they've done.

1112
00:52:15,130 --> 00:52:18,690
Speaker 1: And morale's crucial in policing. And I'll just check you

1113
00:52:18,730 --> 00:52:21,209
Speaker 1: on one thing. We can disrespect bosses now. They can't

1114
00:52:21,250 --> 00:52:23,469
Speaker 1: get out of the stable. We can say what we want.

1115
00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:28,009
Speaker 1: They can't put us on a shit roster or transfer us. Yeah,

1116
00:52:28,050 --> 00:52:31,330
Speaker 1: you talk about KPIs and all that, where they start running.

1117
00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:36,430
Speaker 1: And policing is policing. And what reflects a good police force,

1118
00:52:36,530 --> 00:52:39,529
Speaker 1: I think, is it serving the community it's meant to

1119
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:42,850
Speaker 1: serve us. What saddens me most in the police is

1120
00:52:42,890 --> 00:52:48,130
Speaker 1: that people's promotional opportunities are lost because they're hardworking cops,

1121
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:51,690
Speaker 1: whether it's a uniformed cop or working in the dog squad, detectives,

1122
00:52:52,170 --> 00:52:55,310
Speaker 1: any area. Quite often the hard workers are overlooked because

1123
00:52:55,350 --> 00:52:57,930
Speaker 1: they haven't got time to play the game that the

1124
00:52:58,030 --> 00:53:01,690
Speaker 1: ones that are aspiring for promotion play. I really had

1125
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:04,750
Speaker 1: a problem with that throughout my career watching that. I

1126
00:53:04,810 --> 00:53:07,930
Speaker 1: know I had a team of really good workers on Homicide.

1127
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,790
Speaker 1: And we hadn't been promoted for years. We were doing

1128
00:53:11,830 --> 00:53:14,549
Speaker 1: some tough jobs and we're watching everyone else in the

1129
00:53:14,590 --> 00:53:18,029
Speaker 1: office get promoted around us. I was a sergeant at

1130
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,710
Speaker 1: that time. I said, let's just stop investigating murders for

1131
00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:23,370
Speaker 1: a bit and work out what this promotional game is

1132
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:26,210
Speaker 1: all about. Literally, we had no idea. We were just

1133
00:53:26,330 --> 00:53:29,270
Speaker 1: out locking up the bad guys, investigating things. And we

1134
00:53:29,290 --> 00:53:31,410
Speaker 1: stopped work for about a week and gone, it's not

1135
00:53:31,450 --> 00:53:33,469
Speaker 1: that hard. You've just got to say these words in

1136
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:35,500
Speaker 1: the application. You've got to say this at the interview

1137
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,810
Speaker 1: and that. Within six months of that, we'd all been

1138
00:53:38,850 --> 00:53:41,850
Speaker 1: promoted up the next level because we worked out how

1139
00:53:41,890 --> 00:53:44,669
Speaker 1: to play the game. And to me, that typifies where

1140
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: we get it wrong in policing, that we don't recognise

1141
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,660
Speaker 1: the hard work that people are doing in all facets

1142
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,819
Speaker 1: of policing. And they haven't been able to step off

1143
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: the spinning wheel that is a busy police career to

1144
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,739
Speaker 1: play the promotion game.

1145
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: Exactly. And that's exactly it. I had some of the

1146
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: best bosses in the world. I was very, very lucky.

1147
00:54:08,130 --> 00:54:09,850
Speaker 2: There's a few I didn't get along with, but most

1148
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:12,330
Speaker 2: of them I'm pretty well with. But I do see

1149
00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:14,110
Speaker 2: some of the people I go, oh, my God, if

1150
00:54:15,140 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 2: that person got promoted, what's going on? But a good

1151
00:54:19,420 --> 00:54:22,020
Speaker 2: thing about Queensland, I think, and it might be the

1152
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:24,980
Speaker 2: same around, that if those bosses who had very little

1153
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: operational experience would go to somewhere where they had to

1154
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,739
Speaker 2: use that, they would use people like myself or the DDOs,

1155
00:54:31,780 --> 00:54:33,339
Speaker 2: the people who had all the experience, and ask them.

1156
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:35,730
Speaker 2: And we're more than happy to be involved in that

1157
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:38,660
Speaker 2: thing because it is a big team. And that goes

1158
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: back to one of my previous comments that, you know,

1159
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,700
Speaker 2: you can be sitting beside a person who you absolutely hate,

1160
00:54:43,260 --> 00:54:45,380
Speaker 2: but I can guarantee if the chips are down, you're hurt,

1161
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,100
Speaker 2: they'll come and back you up 100% of the time.

1162
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,980
Speaker 2: That's what policing is. That's what type of team we are. So, yeah.

1163
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,989
Speaker 1: It saddens me. I see they're struggling across the country

1164
00:54:56,030 --> 00:54:59,989
Speaker 1: to get police. What would you say if someone came

1165
00:55:00,050 --> 00:55:01,950
Speaker 1: up and asked you, should I join the police?

1166
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:07,190
Speaker 2: I often... I often push people towards the police. I

1167
00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:08,650
Speaker 2: think it's a great career. It's not the same as

1168
00:55:08,670 --> 00:55:12,330
Speaker 2: what we joined. The new coppers don't know any different,

1169
00:55:12,370 --> 00:55:14,410
Speaker 2: so I don't be for that. But I've never seen

1170
00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:18,710
Speaker 2: a job more accountable than anything. Even from other government organisations,

1171
00:55:19,050 --> 00:55:22,750
Speaker 2: it always lands with the police, whether it's child welfare,

1172
00:55:22,790 --> 00:55:27,660
Speaker 2: whether it's mental health, whether it's domestic violence. Other people

1173
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:30,819
Speaker 2: have got to take responsibility for that rather than just

1174
00:55:30,940 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: dumping it in the police and the poor police getting

1175
00:55:32,940 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: it and get crucified. not only by the public, not

1176
00:55:36,580 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: only by the bosses, but by the media. And it's

1177
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 2: such a hard, such a difficult job to do. Um,

1178
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 2: and very rarely do they report on all the good

1179
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 2: stuff that the coppers do that goes on, uh, you know,

1180
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 2: 10 times more than the bad stuff.

1181
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1182
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1183
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,650
Speaker 1: Uh, look, a tough job, but rewards, rewards are endless and,

1184
00:55:53,810 --> 00:55:57,029
Speaker 1: and the type of, uh, yeah, exciting. You, you get

1185
00:55:57,110 --> 00:56:00,419
Speaker 1: so much from, from policing, but, uh, Yeah, I hope

1186
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: people listening to you describe your career go, wow, that's

1187
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: what can be done. Yeah, policing's changed, but you can

1188
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,469
Speaker 1: still carve out a really nice career for yourself in

1189
00:56:10,550 --> 00:56:14,290
Speaker 1: so many different areas. You're not limited to being a

1190
00:56:14,330 --> 00:56:16,850
Speaker 1: detective or a dog handler. You could be a tactical

1191
00:56:16,910 --> 00:56:19,609
Speaker 1: police officer. There's so many things that you could do.

1192
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:23,590
Speaker 2: You could be a coffee copper too, right? Write tickets.

1193
00:56:23,989 --> 00:56:25,110
Speaker 1: Let's not go that far.

1194
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:31,170
Speaker 2: A lot of good mates are trotting. They'll be bagging me.

1195
00:56:31,210 --> 00:56:33,700
Speaker 1: Let's all say we're only joking because they might see

1196
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: us when we walk out of the studio. Of course,

1197
00:56:36,420 --> 00:56:40,569
Speaker 1: it is very, very important. No, it's good to take

1198
00:56:40,590 --> 00:56:42,230
Speaker 1: the piss out of each other sometimes too.

1199
00:56:43,060 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.

1200
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: And I know you respect detectives, even though you haven't

1201
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,690
Speaker 1: said it the whole podcast. And yeah, I've chosen not

1202
00:56:51,730 --> 00:56:54,110
Speaker 1: to say the only reason you work with a dog

1203
00:56:54,130 --> 00:56:56,109
Speaker 1: was because no one else would work with you, but

1204
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:58,529
Speaker 1: we'll let that go.

1205
00:56:59,190 --> 00:57:00,750
Speaker 2: Gary, I only had to know five words, and that

1206
00:57:00,790 --> 00:57:03,790
Speaker 2: was sit, stand, stay, bite, and there was one other.

1207
00:57:03,850 --> 00:57:04,969
Speaker 2: I can't remember what it is, but that's all I

1208
00:57:04,969 --> 00:57:07,500
Speaker 2: had to remember. I'd have to do statements. I always

1209
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,250
Speaker 2: put it down to If the detectives didn't ask at

1210
00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:12,210
Speaker 2: least five times for a statement, they didn't get it.

1211
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:16,390
Speaker 1: Okay, that was the rules. Because that was in keeping

1212
00:57:16,410 --> 00:57:18,510
Speaker 1: with the five words that you learnt to be a

1213
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:22,890
Speaker 1: dog handler. Exactly. Okay. Exactly, yeah. That makes sense now. Look,

1214
00:57:22,930 --> 00:57:27,209
Speaker 1: we'll wrap it up. Obviously, loved the chat, enjoyed the chat.

1215
00:57:27,350 --> 00:57:30,330
Speaker 1: And congratulations on your career. We've had a bit of

1216
00:57:30,370 --> 00:57:32,450
Speaker 1: a laugh, but I know that you were at the

1217
00:57:32,490 --> 00:57:35,910
Speaker 1: sharp end for a very long time. And, yeah, you've

1218
00:57:35,950 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: come through with a smile on your face. You've come

1219
00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:41,340
Speaker 1: through in one piece and enjoying life. So thanks for

1220
00:57:41,380 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast.

1221
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,940
Speaker 2: As I say, it's a team effort and it's... The

1222
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,330
Speaker 2: whole family's come through unscathed to a certain degree, which

1223
00:57:49,370 --> 00:57:52,340
Speaker 2: is probably one of my most important things, so that's great.

1224
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: And thanks, Gary. Cheers.