WEBVTT - RIP Twiggy’s green hydrogen dream 

0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.080
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:12.800
<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, August five, twenty twenty five. Scores of DNA

0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.760
<v Speaker 1>samples will need to be retested for a second time

0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.520
<v Speaker 1>after whistleblowing forensic scientist doctor Kirsty Wright uncovered more problems

0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.799
<v Speaker 1>at Queensland's embattled lab. The disaster was uncovered in The

0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Australian's investigative podcast Shandy Story. The Australian Federal Police has

0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.680
<v Speaker 1>its first female commissioner, with Chrissy Barrett to replace the

0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 1>retiring Rhys Kershaw. Barrett started her police career at twenty

0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.800
<v Speaker 1>one as an administrative assistant and rose to run the

0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.159
<v Speaker 1>National Security Command. You can read all about her right

0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.839
<v Speaker 1>now at the Australian dot Com dot a You. It

0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.400
<v Speaker 1>sounded like magic, unlimited energy that comes from water, But

0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.520
<v Speaker 1>green hydrogen is too expensive, too hard and too complex,

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and our projects around the country are falling over and

0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.600
<v Speaker 1>a hugely ambitious Queensland scheme led by billionaire Andrew Forrest

0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.000
<v Speaker 1>has left a sixty five billion dollar hole in taxpayers pockets.

0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.600
<v Speaker 1>Today how green hydrogen became a nightmare.

0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.160
<v Speaker 2>The future of renewable energy is here this empty block

0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.320
<v Speaker 2>of land will be transformed into a hydrogen hub.

0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.800
<v Speaker 3>In terms of setting Queensland up to be a hydrogen superpower,

0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.480
<v Speaker 3>is almost as significant as getting the Olympics.

0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:43.440
<v Speaker 1>The town will create a clean and green future. It

0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:48.200
<v Speaker 1>sounded so exciting. Billionaire Andrew Forest was going to transform

0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the economy and the environment with green hydrogen.

0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:59.120
<v Speaker 4>This is a breakthrough for both Queensland and Australian green energy.

0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Mining tyger Twiggy Forest putting his money where it matters.

0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Promising to deliver on time. Twiggy a man of his word,

0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.520
<v Speaker 1>prepared to pay whatever it takes to get the job done.

0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Forest made it sound like magic. Here he is in

0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty two, a.

0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Huge source of infinitely sustainable power, a power source which

0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.320
<v Speaker 4>come to water, creates a huge amount of energy and

0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:29.520
<v Speaker 4>goes back to water. I reckon Hogwarts, Harry Potter, eat

0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.240
<v Speaker 4>your heart out. That's the best spell I've heard of.

0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a reason why Andrew Forrest is Australia as Rich's businessman.

0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Part of doing business is the cell, and he's really

0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:42.400
<v Speaker 2>good at the big cell.

0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Michael McKenna is The Australian's Queensland editor.

0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.919
<v Speaker 2>He came to Queensland and he gave the then Labor

0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:54.480
<v Speaker 2>government the promise of an energy future that didn't involve coal,

0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.320
<v Speaker 2>which has been driving this economy for decades, and that

0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.519
<v Speaker 2>is green hydrogen power. He had a plan to build

0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:09.079
<v Speaker 2>a hydrogen electoralizer manufacturing facility and separately beside it a

0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.240
<v Speaker 2>green hydrogen producing plant, and all he had to do

0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.880
<v Speaker 2>was convince the government to give him the land and

0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.959
<v Speaker 2>help in providing the supporting infrastructure, and they fell over

0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:21.960
<v Speaker 2>themselves in helping him out.

0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.080
<v Speaker 1>So when the Chrysofully government was elected and decided that

0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.600
<v Speaker 1>it was going to pull its support for this project,

0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:30.280
<v Speaker 1>why did they make that decision.

0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:36.200
<v Speaker 2>David christ A fully inherited an economy that was pitched

0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.120
<v Speaker 2>towards the transition to renewable power. The Palichet and Miles

0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Labor government were hell bent on transitioning the entire economy

0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.280
<v Speaker 2>to green renewable power, and part of that was to

0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.880
<v Speaker 2>retire what it is, the youngest fleet, the newest fleet

0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.440
<v Speaker 2>of qual fire power stations in the country. So they

0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.360
<v Speaker 2>were going to bring forward their retirement to two thirty

0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.440
<v Speaker 2>five and to do that, Labor had this plan of

0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:08.120
<v Speaker 2>rolling out renewable power through solar wind and now with

0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.000
<v Speaker 2>this idea green hydrogen and then to store it in

0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.600
<v Speaker 2>pump Tydro. When the L ANDP government took over, they

0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.320
<v Speaker 2>started getting the reports, some of which were held off

0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.320
<v Speaker 2>until after the election, which showed that there were flaws,

0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.080
<v Speaker 2>that there were holes in some of the plans, one

0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of which was pump Tidro. But the other thing was

0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.920
<v Speaker 2>the massive Central Queensland Green Hydrogen project which was sitting

0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:38.440
<v Speaker 2>beside mister Forrest's manufacturing and explorit plan or his plans

0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.640
<v Speaker 2>for and there were problems with those plants. The L

0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and P government's mantra on energy is to provide certainty

0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.000
<v Speaker 2>of power and to bring the prices down and the

0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.760
<v Speaker 2>next part after that is to look at renewable They

0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.640
<v Speaker 2>have commissioned and committed to transitioning the economy, but they

0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.039
<v Speaker 2>say that they're determined to maintain paying the certainty of

0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.040
<v Speaker 2>power and they have found flaws in the labor plans.

0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.000
<v Speaker 1>In Gladston. Forrest was going to be a central player

0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.880
<v Speaker 1>in Australia's largest green hydrogen project that was going to

0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.200
<v Speaker 1>make the Central Queensland Port City the home of hydrogen's future.

0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>But green hydrogen has turned out to be a lot

0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.800
<v Speaker 1>harder than anyone thought, and in June the project collapsed

0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.679
<v Speaker 1>after first the newly elected Liberal National Party Premier David

0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.760
<v Speaker 1>chris A fully then the financiers pulled out. Anastasia Palishet,

0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the Queensland Premier you heard earlier comparing hydrogen to the Olympics,

0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:40.240
<v Speaker 1>was frank.

0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.880
<v Speaker 3>Hydrogen is proving to be in the too hard basket. Yes,

0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.120
<v Speaker 3>a little bit disappointing because hydrogen was high on my

0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.520
<v Speaker 3>agenda when I was premier, it was high on the

0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.159
<v Speaker 3>national agenda, but it just doesn't stack up.

0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.719
<v Speaker 2>The state government has probably spent a couple hundred million

0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:04.320
<v Speaker 2>dollars in these green hydrogen projects in Gladstone. There's been

0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.080
<v Speaker 2>about two hundred and twenty to two hundred and fifty

0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.240
<v Speaker 2>million dollars that has been spent on the Queensland Hydrogen project,

0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.039
<v Speaker 2>which was shared by the federal state governments and its

0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.040
<v Speaker 2>CONSORTI partners, but the bulk of it was spent by

0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the state government. And I'm led to believe that up

0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.800
<v Speaker 2>to about sixty five million dollars is being pursued by

0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.720
<v Speaker 2>the now L ANDP government from mister Forrest Fortescue in

0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.279
<v Speaker 2>relation to the land and other supporting infrastructure that was

0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.640
<v Speaker 2>supplied as part of an agreement to enticem to Gladstone.

0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Fordesque, which has also scrapped a big US hydrogen project,

0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.560
<v Speaker 1>says it still believes in the technology and will repay

0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.560
<v Speaker 1>public funds were required.

0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.839
<v Speaker 2>But then there are more indirect costs. For instance, there

0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.440
<v Speaker 2>was a one billion dollar water pipeline that was approved

0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.360
<v Speaker 2>by the former government to provide water for this Central

0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Queensland hydrogen project. It cost of billion dollars. It's going

0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.400
<v Speaker 2>to be completed this time next year, and with that

0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.040
<v Speaker 2>project now off the cards, it doesn't have a customer

0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to supply that water to.

0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So what is green hydrogen exactly? The theory is this

0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.600
<v Speaker 1>produces build hydro wind and solar energy projects, then convert

0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:30.520
<v Speaker 1>that energy into hydrogen using a process called electrolysis. A

0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.680
<v Speaker 1>renewable power source like a wind farm, pushes power through electrodes,

0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:40.280
<v Speaker 1>which split water into hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The hydrogen

0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.760
<v Speaker 1>can be stored as a gas or a liquid, and

0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.080
<v Speaker 1>it can be exported in pipes and on ships. Forest's

0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.000
<v Speaker 1>idea was to make hydrogen the world's primary energy source,

0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.679
<v Speaker 1>but it's challenging. Green hydrogen production uses a lot of water.

0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Building big plants like Gladstone is incredibly expensive and complex,

0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.640
<v Speaker 1>and there's a limited demand. Nobody's using hydrogen as a

0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.520
<v Speaker 1>fuel in big volumes yet, and the infrastructure like pipes

0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and hubs doesn't yet exist to get it into homes

0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:32.160
<v Speaker 1>and factories coming up? What's the lesson here? Green hydrogen

0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.400
<v Speaker 1>was meant to be a major part of the Albanese

0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.400
<v Speaker 1>government's future Made in Australia program that schemes designed to

0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.520
<v Speaker 1>help reach its net zero emissions goal.

0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:46.640
<v Speaker 5>We have here with the hydrogen industry is some fifty

0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:52.320
<v Speaker 5>billion dollars potential of benefit to our national economy, driving

0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.680
<v Speaker 5>our GDP, driving our economy into the future.

0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.040
<v Speaker 1>But as The Australian's Chief Business correspondent Perry Williams has reported,

0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.120
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of the hydrogen projects backed by Laborup have

0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.640
<v Speaker 1>been quietly shelved and pretty much none of them have

0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.880
<v Speaker 1>made it past the concept stage. As a result, taxpayers

0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.640
<v Speaker 1>across the country have tipped billions into green hydrogen projects

0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that will likely never get off the ground.

0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Taxpayers will pour two point four billion dollars into a

0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.360
<v Speaker 2>plan to secure the future of the troubled wireless Steelworks.

0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.520
<v Speaker 3>BP has announced that it's six hundred million dollar green

0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.960
<v Speaker 3>hydrogen project at Quanana south of Perth has been parked.

0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.240
<v Speaker 4>Origin Energy is abandoning its plans to develop hydrogen at

0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:42.480
<v Speaker 4>its Hunter Valley.

0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Hydrogen Hub, deeming the project too expensive and too risky.

0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.920
<v Speaker 1>What's the lesson here for governments around the country, Michael,

0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:56.240
<v Speaker 1>As hydrogen projects fall over in every state and territory.

0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.040
<v Speaker 2>The message with the lesson is do not believe everything

0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.440
<v Speaker 2>you're told. To look at what is real, what is

0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:10.480
<v Speaker 2>commercially viable, and to take small steps in committing taxpayer

0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.360
<v Speaker 2>funds to these sorts of projects. If these sorts of

0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.760
<v Speaker 2>energy projects are going to work, they've got to stand

0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.440
<v Speaker 2>on their own feet and you've got to really let

0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.360
<v Speaker 2>the market put up these projects and make them economically viable. Yes,

0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.080
<v Speaker 2>there is the question of climate action and reducing the

0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.400
<v Speaker 2>state and the country's emissions, but equally, on the other hand,

0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.960
<v Speaker 2>we've got to provide certainty of power and keep that

0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.040
<v Speaker 2>power as cheap as possible. We've got an issue here

0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:43.120
<v Speaker 2>where we're selling gas from Queensland into markets overseas where

0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.920
<v Speaker 2>they're paying less for their electricity than they are here.

0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:51.040
<v Speaker 2>But Overall, the message here is don't pour hundreds of millions,

0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.920
<v Speaker 2>possibly billions of dollars into these projects without knowing that

0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:54.760
<v Speaker 2>they're going to work.

0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Michael McKenna is The Australian's Queensland editor. You can read

0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.360
<v Speaker 1>all our coverage of the energy transition right now at

0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot com dot au