1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, August five, twenty twenty five. Scores of DNA 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: samples will need to be retested for a second time 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: after whistleblowing forensic scientist doctor Kirsty Wright uncovered more problems 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: at Queensland's embattled lab. The disaster was uncovered in The 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: Australian's investigative podcast Shandy Story. The Australian Federal Police has 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: its first female commissioner, with Chrissy Barrett to replace the 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: retiring Rhys Kershaw. Barrett started her police career at twenty 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: one as an administrative assistant and rose to run the 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: National Security Command. You can read all about her right 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: now at the Australian dot Com dot a You. It 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: sounded like magic, unlimited energy that comes from water, But 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: green hydrogen is too expensive, too hard and too complex, 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: and our projects around the country are falling over and 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: a hugely ambitious Queensland scheme led by billionaire Andrew Forrest 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: has left a sixty five billion dollar hole in taxpayers pockets. 17 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Today how green hydrogen became a nightmare. 18 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: The future of renewable energy is here this empty block 19 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 2: of land will be transformed into a hydrogen hub. 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: In terms of setting Queensland up to be a hydrogen superpower, 21 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: is almost as significant as getting the Olympics. 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: The town will create a clean and green future. It 23 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: sounded so exciting. Billionaire Andrew Forest was going to transform 24 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: the economy and the environment with green hydrogen. 25 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 4: This is a breakthrough for both Queensland and Australian green energy. 26 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: Mining tyger Twiggy Forest putting his money where it matters. 27 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: Promising to deliver on time. Twiggy a man of his word, 28 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: prepared to pay whatever it takes to get the job done. 29 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: Forest made it sound like magic. Here he is in 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, a. 31 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 4: Huge source of infinitely sustainable power, a power source which 32 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: come to water, creates a huge amount of energy and 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 4: goes back to water. I reckon Hogwarts, Harry Potter, eat 34 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 4: your heart out. That's the best spell I've heard of. 35 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: There's a reason why Andrew Forrest is Australia as Rich's businessman. 36 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: Part of doing business is the cell, and he's really 37 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: good at the big cell. 38 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: Michael McKenna is The Australian's Queensland editor. 39 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 2: He came to Queensland and he gave the then Labor 40 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: government the promise of an energy future that didn't involve coal, 41 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: which has been driving this economy for decades, and that 42 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 2: is green hydrogen power. He had a plan to build 43 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: a hydrogen electoralizer manufacturing facility and separately beside it a 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: green hydrogen producing plant, and all he had to do 45 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: was convince the government to give him the land and 46 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 2: help in providing the supporting infrastructure, and they fell over 47 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: themselves in helping him out. 48 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: So when the Chrysofully government was elected and decided that 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: it was going to pull its support for this project, 50 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: why did they make that decision. 51 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: David christ A fully inherited an economy that was pitched 52 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: towards the transition to renewable power. The Palichet and Miles 53 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: Labor government were hell bent on transitioning the entire economy 54 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: to green renewable power, and part of that was to 55 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: retire what it is, the youngest fleet, the newest fleet 56 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: of qual fire power stations in the country. So they 57 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: were going to bring forward their retirement to two thirty 58 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: five and to do that, Labor had this plan of 59 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: rolling out renewable power through solar wind and now with 60 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: this idea green hydrogen and then to store it in 61 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: pump Tydro. When the L ANDP government took over, they 62 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: started getting the reports, some of which were held off 63 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: until after the election, which showed that there were flaws, 64 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: that there were holes in some of the plans, one 65 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: of which was pump Tidro. But the other thing was 66 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: the massive Central Queensland Green Hydrogen project which was sitting 67 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: beside mister Forrest's manufacturing and explorit plan or his plans 68 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: for and there were problems with those plants. The L 69 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: and P government's mantra on energy is to provide certainty 70 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: of power and to bring the prices down and the 71 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: next part after that is to look at renewable They 72 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: have commissioned and committed to transitioning the economy, but they 73 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: say that they're determined to maintain paying the certainty of 74 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: power and they have found flaws in the labor plans. 75 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: In Gladston. Forrest was going to be a central player 76 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: in Australia's largest green hydrogen project that was going to 77 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: make the Central Queensland Port City the home of hydrogen's future. 78 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: But green hydrogen has turned out to be a lot 79 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: harder than anyone thought, and in June the project collapsed 80 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: after first the newly elected Liberal National Party Premier David 81 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: chris A fully then the financiers pulled out. Anastasia Palishet, 82 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: the Queensland Premier you heard earlier comparing hydrogen to the Olympics, 83 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: was frank. 84 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 3: Hydrogen is proving to be in the too hard basket. Yes, 85 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: a little bit disappointing because hydrogen was high on my 86 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: agenda when I was premier, it was high on the 87 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 3: national agenda, but it just doesn't stack up. 88 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: The state government has probably spent a couple hundred million 89 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: dollars in these green hydrogen projects in Gladstone. There's been 90 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: about two hundred and twenty to two hundred and fifty 91 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: million dollars that has been spent on the Queensland Hydrogen project, 92 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 2: which was shared by the federal state governments and its 93 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: CONSORTI partners, but the bulk of it was spent by 94 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: the state government. And I'm led to believe that up 95 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: to about sixty five million dollars is being pursued by 96 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 2: the now L ANDP government from mister Forrest Fortescue in 97 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: relation to the land and other supporting infrastructure that was 98 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: supplied as part of an agreement to enticem to Gladstone. 99 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: Fordesque, which has also scrapped a big US hydrogen project, 100 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: says it still believes in the technology and will repay 101 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: public funds were required. 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: But then there are more indirect costs. For instance, there 103 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: was a one billion dollar water pipeline that was approved 104 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: by the former government to provide water for this Central 105 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: Queensland hydrogen project. It cost of billion dollars. It's going 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: to be completed this time next year, and with that 107 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: project now off the cards, it doesn't have a customer 108 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: to supply that water to. 109 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: So what is green hydrogen exactly? The theory is this 110 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: produces build hydro wind and solar energy projects, then convert 111 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: that energy into hydrogen using a process called electrolysis. A 112 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: renewable power source like a wind farm, pushes power through electrodes, 113 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: which split water into hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The hydrogen 114 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: can be stored as a gas or a liquid, and 115 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: it can be exported in pipes and on ships. Forest's 116 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: idea was to make hydrogen the world's primary energy source, 117 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: but it's challenging. Green hydrogen production uses a lot of water. 118 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: Building big plants like Gladstone is incredibly expensive and complex, 119 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: and there's a limited demand. Nobody's using hydrogen as a 120 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: fuel in big volumes yet, and the infrastructure like pipes 121 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: and hubs doesn't yet exist to get it into homes 122 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: and factories coming up? What's the lesson here? Green hydrogen 123 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: was meant to be a major part of the Albanese 124 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: government's future Made in Australia program that schemes designed to 125 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: help reach its net zero emissions goal. 126 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 5: We have here with the hydrogen industry is some fifty 127 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 5: billion dollars potential of benefit to our national economy, driving 128 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 5: our GDP, driving our economy into the future. 129 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: But as The Australian's Chief Business correspondent Perry Williams has reported, 130 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of the hydrogen projects backed by Laborup have 131 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: been quietly shelved and pretty much none of them have 132 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: made it past the concept stage. As a result, taxpayers 133 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: across the country have tipped billions into green hydrogen projects 134 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: that will likely never get off the ground. 135 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: Taxpayers will pour two point four billion dollars into a 136 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: plan to secure the future of the troubled wireless Steelworks. 137 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: BP has announced that it's six hundred million dollar green 138 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: hydrogen project at Quanana south of Perth has been parked. 139 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 4: Origin Energy is abandoning its plans to develop hydrogen at 140 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 4: its Hunter Valley. 141 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: Hydrogen Hub, deeming the project too expensive and too risky. 142 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: What's the lesson here for governments around the country, Michael, 143 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: As hydrogen projects fall over in every state and territory. 144 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: The message with the lesson is do not believe everything 145 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: you're told. To look at what is real, what is 146 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: commercially viable, and to take small steps in committing taxpayer 147 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: funds to these sorts of projects. If these sorts of 148 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: energy projects are going to work, they've got to stand 149 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 2: on their own feet and you've got to really let 150 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: the market put up these projects and make them economically viable. Yes, 151 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: there is the question of climate action and reducing the 152 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: state and the country's emissions, but equally, on the other hand, 153 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: we've got to provide certainty of power and keep that 154 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: power as cheap as possible. We've got an issue here 155 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: where we're selling gas from Queensland into markets overseas where 156 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: they're paying less for their electricity than they are here. 157 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: But Overall, the message here is don't pour hundreds of millions, 158 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: possibly billions of dollars into these projects without knowing that 159 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: they're going to work. 160 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Michael McKenna is The Australian's Queensland editor. You can read 161 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: all our coverage of the energy transition right now at 162 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au