Speaker 1: Live on Sky News is Sharry.
Speaker 2: Good Evening Tonight.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump lands at NATO, says he's proud of Israel,
Speaker 3: and lashes out at CNN and The New York Times
Speaker 3: for claims the nuclear sites weren't obliterated. A B two
Speaker 3: stealth bomber pilot will be live on the show to
Speaker 3: give his take on all of this. Leaked recordings of
Speaker 3: Mossad agents telling Iranian generals they had just hours to
Speaker 3: flee the calls designed to destabilize the regime. Well Tonight,
Speaker 3: a long term Mossad division head will join us on
Speaker 3: the show for.
Speaker 2: An exclusive interview.
Speaker 3: I said today Susan Lee calls for more women in
Speaker 3: politics despite reducing the number of women in shadow cabinet
Speaker 3: in her first move as.
Speaker 2: A liberal leader.
Speaker 3: I'll speak about this with Brahmin Bishop and Graham Richardson
Speaker 3: a bit later. Plus reporter Caroline Marcus harassed by pro
Speaker 3: Palestinian activists while trying to cover the Low Tooth case.
Speaker 4: People.
Speaker 2: More on that disgusting behavior later.
Speaker 3: But there's so much to speak about tonight, from Trump's
Speaker 3: epic spray to Iran's cruel execution of those it claims
Speaker 3: are Israeli spies. Now, just as the President was looking calm,
Speaker 3: rational presidential making decisions thoughtfully and in a considered way,
Speaker 3: he undoes it all with a foul mouthed ti rate.
Speaker 3: He could have picked up the phone to Israeli Prime
Speaker 3: Minister Benjamin Nettanyahu last night and urged him not to
Speaker 3: resume the military campaign against Iran, to stick with the ceasefire.
Speaker 3: He could have had a rational conversation, but instead he
Speaker 3: criticized one of his closest allies in front of the world.
Speaker 5: There was one rocket that I guess was fired overboard.
Speaker 6: It was after the.
Speaker 5: Time limit and admits it's target, and now Israel's going up.
Speaker 5: These guys got to calm down ridiculously.
Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal editorial board summed up this bizarre
Speaker 3: statement perfectly, writing, Israel and Iran exchanged serious fire in
Speaker 3: the hours before the ceasefire, as is common, but Iran
Speaker 3: fired three missiles after the truce went into effect in
Speaker 3: response miss The Trump unloaded his anger on Israel.
Speaker 2: For planning to retaliate, and.
Speaker 3: The piece went on to explain what many guests on
Speaker 3: this program did.
Speaker 2: Last night, that it's about deterrence.
Speaker 3: If there's a ceasefire, it has to be abided by
Speaker 3: these terrorist regimes, whether it's Iran or Hesbalah or Hamasid's
Speaker 3: terror proxies, they need to know they can't fire missiles
Speaker 3: into suburban areas.
Speaker 2: Into homes whenever they like.
Speaker 3: But the part of Trump Spray that's had the world
Speaker 3: in a spin is this explosive sentence. In it, Trump
Speaker 3: drew an unwarranted equivalence between Israel and Iran, alluding to
Speaker 3: the forever war narrative.
Speaker 5: We basically have two countries that have been fighting so
Speaker 5: long and so hard that they don't know what they're
Speaker 5: doing now.
Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal again put it perfectly when its
Speaker 3: editorial board said, the president seem to treat Israel and
Speaker 3: Iran as to equivalent threats to his diplomacy. Here's what
Speaker 3: they're doing. Iran fights because it is devoted to Israel's destruction.
Speaker 3: Israel fights because it is devoted to not being destroyed.
Speaker 2: Couldn't be said better than that.
Speaker 3: And Iran needs to now show that it is going
Speaker 3: to give up its forever goal to destroy Israel.
Speaker 2: Unless it does this, there can be.
Speaker 3: No genuine ceasefire, no genuine peace, just a brief truce
Speaker 3: until the Iranian regime finds another way to kill Israeli's
Speaker 3: and westerners, and this should be a key feature of
Speaker 3: the talks that America is urging Iran to resume, and
Speaker 3: Trump should also insist on Iran providing access to the
Speaker 3: International Atomic Energy Agency to inspect its nuclear sites. Now,
Speaker 3: of course, Trump's unpresidential conduct and swearing made headlines the
Speaker 3: world over, and the papers had some fun with the
Speaker 3: dramatic events last night with a West Australian headline trump
Speaker 3: drops f bomb and then also by Chris Doah in
Speaker 3: the Nightly after Iran broke the ceasefire.
Speaker 2: Iran can't handle the truce, but.
Speaker 3: It does look like Trump's public threats to Israel worked.
Speaker 3: It was diplomatic pressure taken to new and extreme levels
Speaker 3: that I think are truly unbecoming the president. The President
Speaker 3: shouldn't have treated Israel that way. It was disappointing behavior
Speaker 3: from Trump, although there is still cause to be immensely
Speaker 3: grateful for his military strike that made the world undoubtedly
Speaker 3: a safer place, and so long as Israel has finished
Speaker 3: the job, it's not a bad thing. Trump is imposing
Speaker 3: the ceasefire, and he also has we have to keep
Speaker 3: in mind a possible ulterior motive as well.
Speaker 2: He wants to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 3: He probably doesn't have a chance, but he certainly doesn't
Speaker 3: have a chance of Israel and Iran are still at war,
Speaker 3: and just hours after Trump's vicious spray last night, Benjamin Ettaya,
Speaker 3: who showed he is a true diplomat, remaining composed and
Speaker 3: gracious even thanking Trump.
Speaker 7: Lam loyalil you did God Kamana Sitampa by Telivan Vanimodlomude
Speaker 7: the Deef.
Speaker 3: And Ndaya, who has said that the war goals in
Speaker 3: Iran are complete Israel always expected them to take about
Speaker 3: two weeks. But then today making major global news was
Speaker 3: a leaked report by Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency. It's cast
Speaker 3: doubt on whether the nuclear material has in fact been destroyed,
Speaker 3: and this report claims that Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium
Speaker 3: was probably moved to a secret site. Now the key
Speaker 3: words there are probably moved, so it doesn't seem like
Speaker 3: this agency knows for certain now. Nedajahu and Trump have
Speaker 3: both rejected this claim, as has the United States Ambassador
Speaker 3: to Israel, Steve Wikoff. He said he'd read the damage
Speaker 3: assessment reports, not just from the American government, he said,
Speaker 3: from multiple governments.
Speaker 8: We put twelve bunker buster bombs and four do. There's
Speaker 8: no doubt that it breached the canopy. There's no doubt
Speaker 8: that it was well within reach of the depth that
Speaker 8: these bunker buster bombs go to, and there's no doubt
Speaker 8: that it was obliterated. So the reporting out there that
Speaker 8: that that in some ways suggests that we did not
Speaker 8: achieve the achieve the objective is just completely preposterous.
Speaker 3: And Trump lashed out at the CNN and The New
Speaker 3: York Times tonight at the NATO summit. This just in
Speaker 3: the past couple of hours for publishing reports that the
Speaker 3: sites hadn't been destroyed. He called them scum, and he
Speaker 3: repeated that insults multiple times.
Speaker 9: You had some great reporters, but you have scum. CNN
Speaker 9: is scum, MSDS is scum. The New York Times is scum.
Speaker 9: They're bad people, They're sick.
Speaker 3: He also praised Israel for turning its planes around and
Speaker 3: sticking with the ceasefire.
Speaker 9: Israel came back instiday.
Speaker 10: I'm so proud of them because they came back.
Speaker 9: You know, they went out because they felt it was
Speaker 9: a violation, and technically they were right. But it just
Speaker 9: wouldn't have worked out very well.
Speaker 10: And they brought the planes back.
Speaker 3: And Trump said, if he hadn't sent in the B
Speaker 3: two bombers with the bunker busting bombs, the war on
Speaker 3: Iran would still be continuing.
Speaker 10: But had we not succeeded with that hit, that hit
Speaker 10: ended the war. That hit ended the war.
Speaker 3: Now, apart from his fury towards the media, Trump seemed
Speaker 3: a lot calmer today. He's obviously pleased the ceasefire has
Speaker 3: held for the time being. But while Iran isn't firing
Speaker 3: missiles at Israel, there are serious repercussions internally. It has
Speaker 3: reportedly executed three people that it claims were Mossad spies
Speaker 3: and moss Out, if you don't know, is the Israeli
Speaker 3: intelligence agency. Iran claims the men smuggled in equipment that
Speaker 3: we used to kill one Iranian by Israel, and these
Speaker 3: three men were hanged. And this is the third set
Speaker 3: of executions of people accused of being moss Had agents,
Speaker 3: just in the past few days. And this is the
Speaker 3: true nature of the Iranian regime. It's epitomized by cruelty,
Speaker 3: theocratic tyranny, persecution, state sponsored violence, and brutality, and looking
Speaker 3: back now after the past couple of weeks, we have
Speaker 3: to say it is a great pity that this evil
Speaker 3: regime survived the war. Now, the president of the United States,
Speaker 3: as you know, has always loved social media, declaring to
Speaker 3: the world what he's thinking or feeling about anyone or
Speaker 3: any topic without any regard for the consequences. Diplomacy is
Speaker 3: a thing of the past for this current president. He
Speaker 3: told the media when he spoke before flying to NATO
Speaker 3: last night that he'd been up all night watching cable television.
Speaker 3: And then you can see by the time that he
Speaker 3: posts on truth social that he went on a posting
Speaker 3: spree as well. He unleashed on AOC in one post,
Speaker 3: calling her stupid and one of the dumbest.
Speaker 2: People in Congress. No complaints there.
Speaker 3: In another post, he complained in capital letters about the
Speaker 3: fake new CNN and New York Times, which he said
Speaker 3: teamed up to.
Speaker 2: Demean his strikes on Iran.
Speaker 3: Now, this is obviously highly amusing, highly entertaining, very unpresidential.
Speaker 3: But then Trump posted a video that even for him,
Speaker 3: is highly controversial. Now he's trying to get a Ran
Speaker 3: to abide by a cease fire. He yelled at Israel
Speaker 3: over this desperately wants Iran to abide by the ceasefire.
Speaker 3: Yet at the same time he's posting this bomb.
Speaker 4: Bomb my Ram, bom bom bom bom bomb, My Ram
Speaker 4: got a big sem random bom bomb My ends.
Speaker 10: I went to a mosque, throws some rocks.
Speaker 6: Tell me I had told I gotta.
Speaker 10: Got a B S B.
Speaker 4: D.
Speaker 2: Uncle Sam getting pretty hot.
Speaker 4: And I ran until he's got a big S.
Speaker 3: And that's, of course to the happy tune of the
Speaker 3: Beach Boys Barbara An And did you hear that line
Speaker 3: there was in the sub subtitles put the Ayatola in
Speaker 3: a box. Well, let's hope that doesn't offend the Supreme
Speaker 3: Leader Kimani to such an extent that he resumes his
Speaker 3: campaign of terror against Israel. A big show ahead, Like
Speaker 3: I said, one of Massad's head of divisions will be
Speaker 3: on later plus a B two stealth bomber pilot to
Speaker 3: tell us just whether he thinks those nuclear sites would
Speaker 3: have been destroyed. But now let's bring in barrister and
Speaker 3: UK lawyers for Israel Charitable Trust legal director Natasha Holstoff,
Speaker 3: and she joins me live from London Natasha, great to
Speaker 3: see you again. Now, Trump lashed out at Israel, not Iran,
Speaker 3: Israel last night after the Islamic Republic breached the ceasefire.
Speaker 2: Was this misplaced?
Speaker 3: Do you think surely Israel had every right to hit
Speaker 3: back at Iran if it wanted to.
Speaker 11: It certainly had every right to do so, And indeed,
Speaker 11: from the outset here, israel strikes have been entirely lawful.
Speaker 11: This is part and parcel of the ongoing armed conflict
Speaker 11: between Israel and Iran. I'd be encouraged to take with
Speaker 11: a pinch of salt what President Trump says over social media,
Speaker 11: or indeed in clips of interviews that I think are
Speaker 11: made perhaps more of by the media than they ought
Speaker 11: to be. This is a man's actions. I would suggest
Speaker 11: that perhaps speak louder than his words. But it is confusing,
Speaker 11: especially in circumstances where the ceasefire was only broken by Iran,
Speaker 11: and Israel's response, which had been promised to be significant,
Speaker 11: appears to have been more muted than we might have expected.
Speaker 3: Now, Trump also criticized Israel for going hard before the
Speaker 3: ceasefire came into effect. But again, if Israel needed to
Speaker 3: finish the in time to meete a ceasefire if it
Speaker 3: still had targets military sides, nuclear sides.
Speaker 2: Who knows that it needed to hit.
Speaker 3: Then again, it had every right to do that before
Speaker 3: the ceasefire started, don't you think in your legal.
Speaker 11: Opinion that's correct? And I think it also had every
Speaker 11: right to respond forcefully as it had promised to Iran's
Speaker 11: breach of that ceasefire. And appreciate ceasefires in this region
Speaker 11: frequently take a few attempts to come into place. I
Speaker 11: mean since then, of course, we've seen relative quiet. I
Speaker 11: believe there were a few drones, but from Iran it
Speaker 11: may have been that they were just slow in reaching
Speaker 11: Israel proper. The fact of the matter is, though that
Speaker 11: Israel would be lawfully able to continue striking military targets
Speaker 11: in Iran. It has done so, for example in Lebanon,
Speaker 11: despite there being an existing SEASPI, because it has maintained
Speaker 11: the ability and the right to act as and when
Speaker 11: it sees threats materializing, even in the context of a ceasefire.
Speaker 3: We're seeing moves by some Democrats, but also anti Trump
Speaker 3: Republicans to call for Donald Trump to be impeached. Algreen
Speaker 3: lost his bid to have Trump impeached over around nuclear strikes.
Speaker 2: It was voted down.
Speaker 3: By one hundred and twenty eight Democrats to seventy nine.
Speaker 3: What are the legalities of this claim that Trump had
Speaker 3: no right to make this decision on his own?
Speaker 11: They don't appear to me to be any It's extraordinary
Speaker 11: that one sees these party political claims being advanced. We
Speaker 11: didn't see this, however, in relation to Trump's previous action
Speaker 11: against al Bagdadi, against Sulimani, or indeed to Obama strikes
Speaker 11: in Yemen in Syria. It's a very basic matter of
Speaker 11: US constitutional structure that the president does not need to
Speaker 11: seek permission from Congress in any of these respects. A
Speaker 11: full declaration of war would be a different matter, but
Speaker 11: of course that hasn't occurred as far as America's involvement
Speaker 11: here has been concerned so far. So a strange attempt,
Speaker 11: I think, born out of politics rather than a proper
Speaker 11: application of US constitutional law here.
Speaker 2: So what does this come down to?
Speaker 3: So if it was a war, would he need to
Speaker 3: get the approval of Congress?
Speaker 2: Is that where the line.
Speaker 11: Is for a formal declaration of law? Yes, that's my understanding.
Speaker 11: I'm not a US lawyer, but I've spent a little
Speaker 11: bit of time in the United States a national security
Speaker 11: law context, so certainly that's my reading of it, and
Speaker 11: from what I can see that's been endorsed by constitutional
Speaker 11: lawyers and those that understand the process. I imagine it's
Speaker 11: one of the reasons that this impeachment attempt wasn't successful.
Speaker 11: But I think in contrast to previous actions, previous strikes
Speaker 11: conducted by America under various presidents in the Middle East,
Speaker 11: it is striking that these complaints would be raised in
Speaker 11: this context, in the context of much needed strikes on
Speaker 11: Iran's nuclear facilities, and strikes which I should stress have
Speaker 11: made the region as well as the world a great
Speaker 11: deal safer. All of these rhetorical flourishes of starting World
Speaker 11: War III, frankly, are being proven to be ridiculous. Any
Speaker 11: steps that minimize Iran's ability to continue to terrorize the
Speaker 11: region and operate terrorist proxies around the world targeting Western interests,
Speaker 11: and minimizing its ability to continue to do that in
Speaker 11: the future under a nuclear umbrella ought to be celebrated
Speaker 11: as bringing peace and stability to the world.
Speaker 3: Just finally, Natasha, we're seeing that the US is trying
Speaker 3: to encourage Iran now to engage in talks about its
Speaker 3: nuclear program. It should allow the IAEA to have access
Speaker 3: to its nuclear sites.
Speaker 2: Would you be trusting around in this scenario.
Speaker 11: Well, certainly not. Of course. This is a regime that
Speaker 11: broke the cease fire within hours. It is a regime
Speaker 11: that has consistently used previous agreements with the United States
Speaker 11: and others to continue to advance covertly its nuclear ambitions.
Speaker 11: The most important development over the last week is that
Speaker 11: its nuclear program has been put back significantly. In that context,
Speaker 11: those negotiations may of course continue, but its actions here
Speaker 11: that I think again speak louder than words, and we're
Speaker 11: never going to have a situation. Let me acknowledge that
Speaker 11: there is a final nail in the coffin of Iran's
Speaker 11: problematic ambitions as the Islamic republic that I'm talking about,
Speaker 11: unless we see regime change coming from within, an opportunity
Speaker 11: for the people to throw off this oppressive, tyrannical regime
Speaker 11: that they have suffered under for some forty six years.
Speaker 11: But for that sort of change in Iran, I'm afraid
Speaker 11: all we can anticipate and hope for is a control
Speaker 11: on its annihilation. Attempts on Israel and other Western interests.
Speaker 11: But in that context, there has been significant advantage from
Speaker 11: what's happened over the last week that can certainly lead
Speaker 11: to more productive talks. But I wouldn't trust anything that
Speaker 11: the Iranians commit to because there is a track record
Speaker 11: here of them consistently lie. And this is a regime
Speaker 11: that uses that sort of subterfuge and dishonesty to advance
Speaker 11: its ambitions, in particular the death to Israel ambition. But
Speaker 11: let's not forget death to America, includes death to the UK,
Speaker 11: death to Australia. This is a regime that has pitted
Speaker 11: itself against Western liberal democracies from its inception in nineteen
Speaker 11: seventy nine.
Speaker 3: Indeed, Natasha, really appreciate your time. Great to have you
Speaker 3: on the show once again. Thank you so much. All Right,
Speaker 3: let's bring in now Sky News contributor Kosher Gada, and
Speaker 3: Kosher let's pick up on Donald Trump's spray last night,
Speaker 3: his post on truth Social this unorthodox way of handling
Speaker 3: foreign policy and was where he publicly criticizes an ally
Speaker 3: one minute and then says he's proud of them the next,
Speaker 3: swearing calling the media scum. What can we make of
Speaker 3: this bizarre way of running the world.
Speaker 12: You know, I think it's another illustration show I agreed
Speaker 12: to be with you as always have. Let Trump be Trump.
Speaker 12: That adage is something now that's been spoken so many
Speaker 12: times over the past decade. I would piece a part
Speaker 12: two or three things that are going on in there.
Speaker 12: One is style stylistically, and profanity is something I don't
Speaker 12: think he's done from the bullie pulpit as president before.
Speaker 12: But in general, he plays fast and loose with rhetoric.
Speaker 12: He loves to be bombastic, whether it's calling North Korea's
Speaker 12: leader Rocketman or the clips over here that he's retweeting.
Speaker 12: He does that to some effect. It is controversial, but
Speaker 12: by and large people have kind of gotten used to it.
Speaker 12: A lot of people like it and think that it's effective.
Speaker 12: Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But in general that
Speaker 12: is his way and it's part of his approach. Stylistically,
Speaker 12: I think he likes to throw people off balance and
Speaker 12: have a big stick rhetorically and keep people guessing essentially
Speaker 12: in terms of the substance of what he said. So
Speaker 12: there's a couple of things there. One is attacking the media,
Speaker 12: calling them scum, that's like a tried and tested strategy
Speaker 12: for him. The media's trust is at an all time low.
Speaker 12: He's very adversarial with them. His base hates the media
Speaker 12: and doesn't trust them, and that tends to actually play well.
Speaker 12: He's also angry with the cleanup that he's having to do.
Speaker 12: I think that was a communications misstep of not putting
Speaker 12: the reports out there, and people are questioning how effective
Speaker 12: the bomb strikes were. And then the last bit is,
Speaker 12: of course, the way he went after Israel. That is
Speaker 12: unusual for a US president. But I think he's just
Speaker 12: expressing his frustration and the fact that it's a layered
Speaker 12: issue domestically and with his baes about whether or not
Speaker 12: the US should have gotten involved or should continue to
Speaker 12: get involved in that region, and he's just giving.
Speaker 2: Voice to that indeed.
Speaker 3: And also he'd promised it would be forever cease fire,
Speaker 3: and it didn't look like it was going to last
Speaker 3: more than a few hours, although thankfully now it's been
Speaker 3: a bit of a calm day. Kosher in New York
Speaker 3: today there was a huge upset with TikTok influencer Zoran
Speaker 3: mum Dani. Not sure if I'm saying his name correctly,
Speaker 3: ma'm dani beating former New York Governor Andrew Cmo in
Speaker 3: the Democratic primary election for mayor. Now, this influencer is
Speaker 3: an outspoken anti Zionist. He's refused to condemn calls to
Speaker 3: globalize the enter faighter and here he was at a
Speaker 3: protest probably.
Speaker 2: I mean kosher.
Speaker 3: This seems like a shocking result today and shurely people
Speaker 3: don't want this kind of behavior from their politicians, we.
Speaker 12: Would hope, and yet the result tells us otherwise. This
Speaker 12: one shar really pains me as a longtime New Yorker.
Speaker 12: One of the greatest cities in the world. It's the
Speaker 12: epicenter of the Western Hemisphere and one of the most
Speaker 12: important cities, and he looks like he is on a
Speaker 12: glide path to winning. He defeated Andrew Cuomo. As you said,
Speaker 12: he sort of was flying under the radar and came
Speaker 12: out of nowhere. And not only those comments and his
Speaker 12: position there with respect to Israel and everything else he
Speaker 12: was saying with Intafada. He's also anti policing. He believes
Speaker 12: the police force should be abolished in New York and
Speaker 12: social workers should be doing that. He's anti private sector.
Speaker 12: He wants public grocery stores and other things. Even though
Speaker 12: the New York City is running one hundred billion dollars
Speaker 12: in debt, he thinks the buses should be free, with
Speaker 12: no explanation for how anybody is going to pay for that.
Speaker 12: And just one of quick point I would make too,
Speaker 12: is it is really interesting. It's an example of the
Speaker 12: downstream consequences of immigration and multiculturalism that he is somebody
Speaker 12: who was born outside of the US. He's a Muslim
Speaker 12: and Hindu heritage. He identifies as Muslim. And you've got
Speaker 12: the mayor of London, the mayor of Rotterdam, the mayor
Speaker 12: of Calgary, and potentially the mayor of New York City
Speaker 12: being these folks, how compatible are they really with the
Speaker 12: cities that they're governing. That is I think the elephant
Speaker 12: in the room.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting.
Speaker 3: And you know the current mayor, Eric Adams, He's running
Speaker 3: as an independent, so we have to see what chance
Speaker 3: he has against the official Democratic candidate. I mean, he
Speaker 3: seems like he has been doing an excellent job, not
Speaker 3: without controversy, but we have to hope he gets there now.
Speaker 2: Just quickly before you go farmer.
Speaker 3: Florida Congressman Matt Gates has been caught out in an
Speaker 3: embarrassing text exchange with his mum. So someone was sitting
Speaker 3: behind him on a flight and photographed his phone as
Speaker 3: she texted him saying, don't be criticizing the president or
Speaker 3: his actions. He's trying to keep pass safe. That's his job.
Speaker 3: Maga will turn on you and kosher. He was also
Speaker 3: bragging about how much he has in the.
Speaker 2: Bank and his real estate.
Speaker 3: This is pretty embarrassing, definitely a little bit cringe.
Speaker 12: He is known to be braggadocious, and it is certainly
Speaker 12: a reminder to be aware of your surroundings and her
Speaker 12: public figure in a public space. I think he handled
Speaker 12: as well as someone could when it went viral, and
Speaker 12: he leaned into it and used humor. But I think,
Speaker 12: you know, in terms of substance, it was another microcosm
Speaker 12: or another glimpse into what was happening in the Trump
Speaker 12: base in the last week and how that faction was
Speaker 12: very worried about the strikes and was going to lead.
Speaker 12: It was a slippery slope of US involvement. That was
Speaker 12: kind of the crux of what he was discussing with
Speaker 12: his mother. But luckily none of that came to pass
Speaker 12: and We're generally in a pretty good place today.
Speaker 2: All right, Kosha, thank you so much. Pleasure to have
Speaker 2: you on again.
Speaker 3: All right, let's turn now to this explosive leaked audio.
Speaker 3: This first was in the Washington Post, where a Mossad
Speaker 3: agent tells an Iranian general that he has twelve hours
Speaker 3: to escape with his family before Israel kills him.
Speaker 1: Jina A ham Ktoy.
Speaker 3: Now, the call is thought to have been part of
Speaker 3: an intelligence operation that accompanied the strikes and Iranian nuclear facilities,
Speaker 3: and it would have been presumably designed to further destabilize
Speaker 3: the Iranian regime.
Speaker 2: Let's go live to Israel now.
Speaker 3: I'm joined by the former head of Massads Hostages and
Speaker 3: Mia Division. Also the former a former Massad division head,
Speaker 3: Rami Igar Rami. Welcome to the show. Now, obviously you
Speaker 3: wouldn't be able to comment specifically about this case, but
Speaker 3: what can you tell us about these sorts of operations
Speaker 3: generally speaking, Well.
Speaker 7: I'll let you know that my telephone number is known
Speaker 7: in Tehran and I've been receiving these kind of messages
Speaker 7: for the last two years more or less. Funny enough,
Speaker 7: half of these messages are threatening, and half of these
Speaker 7: messages are people that wish to be recruited and help
Speaker 7: Israel in its plate.
Speaker 6: So you find a very diverse.
Speaker 7: Iranian Iranian society, and this diverse society is a very
Speaker 7: good hunting ground for intelligence agencies.
Speaker 3: But in terms of when you have an operation like
Speaker 3: Israel has had in a Ran over the past thirteen
Speaker 3: days or so, it has been incredibly successful. But it's
Speaker 3: not just the military might. Intelligence has been a key
Speaker 3: part of this. Can you tell us about what would
Speaker 3: gone into that and how important that intelligence gathering was
Speaker 3: with operatives deep undercover in Tehran for years and years
Speaker 3: and years Before something like this can be successfully pulled off.
Speaker 7: It is an endeavor that has taken many years, many years. Israel,
Speaker 7: like by the way you run, the same way on
Speaker 7: the other side, has been recruiting agents, especially for operational usage,
Speaker 7: not for intelligence. Traditionally, before the internet and before this
Speaker 7: world is diversed and technologically, intelligence agency has recruited people
Speaker 7: in order to collect information, including to collect intelligence.
Speaker 6: But this has changed over.
Speaker 7: The years and now intelligence intelligence agencies recruits on the
Speaker 7: other side people to be operational of the day on
Speaker 7: the d day, and as you've seen here in Iran,
Speaker 7: Israel has and I explained why, because there is a
Speaker 7: huge fraction in Iran that is anti government and anti
Speaker 7: government for many, many reasons, and these people are recruited
Speaker 7: over the years and set to operate on the right day,
Speaker 7: as they have done in this operation. But at the
Speaker 7: end of the day, and we'll go further into this
Speaker 7: and into what has happened with all the military success
Speaker 7: of Israel and the United States and the intelligence success
Speaker 7: of Israel, at the end of the day, Iran is
Speaker 7: still there with four hundred and fifty kilograms of Fisher's
Speaker 7: material material that is suited for several nuclear bombs.
Speaker 2: You believe that.
Speaker 3: Hasn't been destroyed, Rami, you believe that hasn't been destroyed.
Speaker 6: I believe it hasn't been destroyed.
Speaker 7: And I do not buy not Trump's declarations and not
Speaker 7: anybody else's. The Iranians are very clever people, and they
Speaker 7: have known there was a war coming on, and they
Speaker 7: know how important these four hundred and fifty kilograms are
Speaker 7: for their future military capabilities but also for their negotiating capability.
Speaker 3: Intelligence have tracked where it was moved to if it
Speaker 3: was moved.
Speaker 7: Maybe and maybe not if you ask me not, because
Speaker 7: if it was very clear.
Speaker 6: We would have heard this in the press, but it
Speaker 6: doesn't matter.
Speaker 7: We have to assume, and our assumption is very important
Speaker 7: for the future of the Western world.
Speaker 6: We have to assume these four.
Speaker 7: Hundred and fifty kilograms have somehow been disposed in some
Speaker 7: other locations, as the Iranians are saying. And as long
Speaker 7: as this is true, and knowing that in the past
Speaker 7: Iran has been able to resurrect its center fuel operation
Speaker 7: very fast within months, we should all understand that the
Speaker 7: end of this endeavor is in some kind of an
Speaker 7: agreement with Iran. And without an agreement, none of us
Speaker 7: have gone very far. We have had a very successful war.
Speaker 7: It has been incredible in many ways. Israel and the
Speaker 7: United States have been able to do some things that
Speaker 7: we couldn't imagine before. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 7: we need an agreement if we want the Iranians at
Speaker 7: the end to be to comply with us and to
Speaker 7: stop their ambitions for nuclear for a nuclear bomb at
Speaker 7: the end, we need an agreement, and an agreement which
Speaker 7: would be better than Obama maybe, but I'm not sure
Speaker 7: that we are able to get there.
Speaker 3: All right, Very interesting, Rami, great to have you on
Speaker 3: the show, Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: So there you go.
Speaker 3: Even some Israelis are questioning that that four hundred kilograms
Speaker 3: of enriched uranium has not been destroyed. The President says
Speaker 3: it has been. We'll see still to Karma. B two
Speaker 3: Stealth Bomber Pilot gives his take on this very question.
Speaker 3: Plus car Carline Marcus harassed while covering the Antoinette Latouf
Speaker 3: case as she gloats outside court froman Bishop and Graham Richardson.
Speaker 2: While unpack all of that. Next welcome back.
Speaker 3: Pro Palestinian activist Antoinette Latouf should never have been hired
Speaker 3: by the ABC, which is required by its charter to
Speaker 3: be impartial, and that shocking decision to hire her has
Speaker 3: come back to bite them. The federal court found that
Speaker 3: the ABC unlawfully terminated her after three days of work
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three. The judge found while the ABC
Speaker 3: claimed it had directed Latouf not to post about the
Speaker 3: war in Gaza during her time there, it had only
Speaker 3: advised her, not given her an official direction, and so
Speaker 3: there was no misconduct. And this is the critical point
Speaker 3: that's been conveniently overlooked.
Speaker 2: By many media outlets.
Speaker 3: Now, my poor friend Ansky News report at Caroline Marcus
Speaker 3: was covering this today and had to come face to
Speaker 3: face with all of the Tooth's supporters, lovely activists like
Speaker 3: this one.
Speaker 13: Well, there was a loud applause after that decision was
Speaker 13: handed down. There was a fairly large group of supporters
Speaker 13: in court for Antoinette Latouf. You can see some of
Speaker 13: them here behind me at the moment, shouting about the
Speaker 13: Israel Garza conflict, many wearing Kafir scarfs, screaming about media censors.
Speaker 3: Sorry, we'll just cut it there because that's just rude.
Speaker 14: Karlen Marcus trying to do her job there.
Speaker 3: Now, when I spoke to Caroline about this early and
Speaker 3: that wasn't the only incident. Pro Palestinian activists were harassing her.
Speaker 2: She was simply.
Speaker 3: Doing her job professionally and they were trying to intimidate her.
Speaker 3: And one activist, a former journalism lecturer, even tried to
Speaker 3: film Cara Line on her mobile phone.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's disgraceful.
Speaker 3: Let's bring it now from a Speaker of the House,
Speaker 3: Brom and bishop and labor legend Graham Richardson.
Speaker 5: Brom.
Speaker 3: When this is an infuriating finding, if it's a regular
Speaker 3: workplace sure, you can't fire someone for their political opinion.
Speaker 2: But at the ABC they're required in their.
Speaker 3: Charter to be impartial and objective, so there should be a.
Speaker 2: Question about whether those rules apply.
Speaker 14: Well, here's the problem. The charter is not enforceable. In fact,
Speaker 14: the actor actually says that nothing in that charter can
Speaker 14: be enforced in a court of law in any way,
Speaker 14: shape or form. So until that charter is enforceable, it's
Speaker 14: really ridiculous to discuss enforcing impartiality on the question of
Speaker 14: your new touch on the really key point, and that
Speaker 14: is there was no direction given to her. It was
Speaker 14: said to be merely an advice or suggestion. So once
Speaker 14: again the ABC has gone to court with a pretty
Speaker 14: ify case, which you could see right from the beginning,
Speaker 14: and what wracked up another million dollars in podcast. So
Speaker 14: you know, management has got to change at the ABC
Speaker 14: and that charter needs to be enforceable.
Speaker 3: Richard, My worry is this is just going to embolden
Speaker 3: the ABC activists with their social media posts, with their activism.
Speaker 3: We already know she was paid for those two shifts
Speaker 3: she did at work. Now she gets another seventy thousand
Speaker 3: dollars compensation on top of that. I mean, the whole
Speaker 3: thing is quite ludicrous.
Speaker 15: I think ludergris is a fair description. This saga has
Speaker 15: dragged on. It's been ridiculous in the last few days.
Speaker 15: I don't quite understand why someone couldn't put an end
Speaker 15: to it. Someone couldn't find a way through. It's not
Speaker 15: that difficult. I think. I always around and I sort
Speaker 15: of that out in five minutes.
Speaker 14: She shouldn't have been in the first place.
Speaker 2: Exactly, she shouldn't have been hired in the first base.
Speaker 2: That was the problem.
Speaker 3: Now, Opposition leader Susan Lee fronted the National Press Club
Speaker 3: for the first time as Opposition leader, and she was
Speaker 3: pretty pointed about wanting more women in the Liberal Party.
Speaker 3: If some state divisions choose to implement quotas, that's fine.
Speaker 3: This is despite the fact in her first move as
Speaker 3: Liberal leader, she reduced the number of women in shadow cabinet,
Speaker 3: dumping for talented women.
Speaker 2: Brown.
Speaker 3: Do you agree that the party should now be open
Speaker 3: to quotas.
Speaker 14: I'll never agree to quotas ever, because I think it's
Speaker 14: an insult to women that they can't be judged simply
Speaker 14: on what they've got to offer. If it's a bit
Speaker 14: harder don't waste your time windy about it. Put the
Speaker 14: effort into overcoming that difficulty. But I think Susan did
Speaker 14: quite well today. If you compare Albow's first speech about
Speaker 14: being growing up in a housing condition house and going
Speaker 14: to a private school at the cathedral and having this
Speaker 14: tough life compared to what Susan described as her early
Speaker 14: days in early life, he had a pretty easy ride,
Speaker 14: and she's become a lot of hardships to become the
Speaker 14: person she is. So let's give her a go. And
Speaker 14: let's face it, the parliament isn't sitting yet. I mean,
Speaker 14: we had to make way for Albow. EBB.
Speaker 1: What is it.
Speaker 14: With these with these trips away? So the parliament's not
Speaker 14: sitting it, So let's wait and see.
Speaker 4: Rich.
Speaker 3: I do you agree with me that it's hypocritical her
Speaker 3: point on women, and how do you think she performed,
Speaker 3: particularly her admission that the Liberal Party was in a
Speaker 3: terrible position.
Speaker 15: Yeah, well, I think you know, you're starting off with
Speaker 15: a pretty weakened hand, and so you've got to extend
Speaker 15: I think some sympathy for her in that respect. It's
Speaker 15: not an easy job. It's a really tough one and
Speaker 15: it'll be a while before we can really make a
Speaker 15: proper judgment as to how well she's going. But I
Speaker 15: think she's off to a reasonable start. I think I
Speaker 15: think Labor has got to concede that. It's like, you know,
Speaker 15: when Tony Havebott became leader, people were in the Labor
Speaker 15: Party were rubbing their hands with the glee saying, you know,
Speaker 15: is this terrific? Didn't turn out so well? I think
Speaker 15: you've got to remember that.
Speaker 3: But Richard, it's been nearly three months since the election
Speaker 3: and the Liberals are nowhere. They haven't even started having
Speaker 3: a debate about energy policy.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 15: The Liberals are in a mess. There's no doubt about that,
Speaker 15: and there are plenty of examples of it. I think
Speaker 15: the difficulty is going to be trying to sort out
Speaker 15: a coherent policy line. You know, they don't have a
Speaker 15: policy line. They've got a few policies they don't ness
Speaker 15: necessarily jell really well together, and it's a difficult job
Speaker 15: to make that happen. But that is a job. That's
Speaker 15: what she's been given the task for, so she's going
Speaker 15: to have to overcome it.
Speaker 2: Rom just quickly.
Speaker 3: It just looks like they're kicking the energy debate down
Speaker 3: the road, doesn't it that?
Speaker 2: When are they actually going to have it?
Speaker 15: Wow, that's that's a really good question. We should not
Speaker 15: be pushing this down the road. This should be dealt
Speaker 15: with now. It is a significant problem.
Speaker 14: But Albo, you've got a ridiculous policy in the Labor
Speaker 14: Party with regard to energy. It is unaffordable, it is
Speaker 14: sending us bankrupt, it's destroying the countryside, it's destroying one wildlife.
Speaker 2: It's citizen policy. The levels don't even have a policy.
Speaker 14: Well, let's see that some of us in the Liberal
Speaker 14: Party ever always had a policy, and it is that
Speaker 14: net zero should never have been agreed to by Morrison
Speaker 14: and that the answer is we have to have affordable,
Speaker 14: reliable energy source.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: Very quickly, I'm so out of time, But rich are
Speaker 3: you think the Liberal Party should dump the net zero
Speaker 3: commitment or not?
Speaker 2: Would that be a good political decision?
Speaker 15: I think net zero's a really bad idea to keep
Speaker 15: batting on with for the Liberals, and I think they'd
Speaker 15: save themselves a lot of strife if they just got
Speaker 15: away and just said no nonsense.
Speaker 3: There you go. Graham Richardson from a bishop, didn't expect
Speaker 3: it'd be so much agreement on energy policy. Maybe you
Speaker 3: boy should sit down a season lee Now still to come,
Speaker 3: we'll cross live to Israel for the latest on the
Speaker 3: family killed by the Iranian strikes yesterday. But first I'll
Speaker 3: be joined by forming United States Air foced Lieutenant General
Speaker 3: Mark Weatherington, one of the few people who's been in
Speaker 3: the cockpit of the much feared BE Too stealth bomber
Speaker 3: that's after this quick break, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: Seven be Too stealth bombers were used during Operation Midnight Hammer,
Speaker 3: each manned by a two person crew who flew for
Speaker 3: thirty seven hours. This is an incredible feat of human endurance,
Speaker 3: requiring a lot of skill and experience. From a deputy
Speaker 3: commander of Fox Global Strike Command, Mark Weatherington is one
Speaker 3: of the few people who knows what it's like to
Speaker 3: be in the cockpit of these planes, and I'm pleased
Speaker 3: to say he joins me now, make thank you so
Speaker 3: much for coming on the program. Can you tell us
Speaker 3: what it's like to fly a B two stealth bomber,
Speaker 3: especially for those kind of extraordinary long hours.
Speaker 6: Well, Cherry, thanks for having me.
Speaker 16: Glad to join you tonight. The B two is very
Speaker 16: similar to most of the aircraft that we operate, the
Speaker 16: bomber aircraft, it doesn't fly an incredibly different manner. However,
Speaker 16: long duration stories can be an extreme challenge for the pilots,
Speaker 16: very fatiguing, especially with the two person crew, and so
Speaker 16: we work hard to prepare them to get them the
Speaker 16: rest they need ahead of time. They can stretch out
Speaker 16: and sleep and move around in non critical phases of flight.
Speaker 16: One of them can while the other piloting the aircraft.
Speaker 16: And it's an extreme effort, but they handle it very well,
Speaker 16: skillfully and professionally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I also read that there's a microwave and
Speaker 3: a fridge on board thirty seven hours. Of course you
Speaker 3: need to eight in that period, not just sleep, as
Speaker 3: you said, refueling mid air.
Speaker 2: Is that a difficult challenge, Well.
Speaker 6: It can be, certainly.
Speaker 16: These pilots are very practice set and for a B two,
Speaker 16: a long range strike platform, that's one of the most
Speaker 16: important things we can do. Recognize that these pilots on
Speaker 16: this mission probably had three to four air fuelings going
Speaker 16: into the target area and coming out of the target area,
Speaker 16: and each one of those is about twenty minutes where
Speaker 16: they're piloting that large airplane about twelve feet behind and
Speaker 16: beneath another very big aircraft transferring fuel. And so it's
Speaker 16: a very very important aspect of the mission and one
Speaker 16: where they really have to be focused and prepared.
Speaker 3: Now in terms of the impact that the bunker buster bombs,
Speaker 3: that the B two stealth bombers carry, the.
Speaker 2: Impact that they would have.
Speaker 3: As you know, there's been a lot of discussion over
Speaker 3: whether around nuclear sites, particularly four doughs eighteen to ninety
Speaker 3: meters underground beneath the mountain, would have been entirely obliterated.
Speaker 3: To use Donald Trump's phrase, do you believe there's any
Speaker 3: possibility it would have just done damage and not completely
Speaker 3: destroyed the site from your knowledge of how these bombs land.
Speaker 16: Jerry, I think, as I've stated on several other programs
Speaker 16: this week, it's going to take days, weeks, months for
Speaker 16: us to fully understand the damage at Foordeaux and how
Speaker 16: far that program may have been set back. And so
Speaker 16: it's possible that an operation like this can be very
Speaker 16: decisively ordered, which I think it was, and it can
Speaker 16: be very well executed, which I think it was, and
Speaker 16: still not.
Speaker 10: Achieved the desired results. And so there's a lot of unknowns.
Speaker 16: It appears to me that the weapons performed the way
Speaker 16: they were supposed to perform, arrived on the aim coins precisely,
Speaker 16: and did the damage that they or executed. They're part
Speaker 16: of it to play that they were supposed to. But
Speaker 16: whether it caused that damage that we were looking for,
Speaker 16: we just don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll need I suppose people on the ground because
Speaker 3: we've already seen satellite vision yet, so to properly ascertain
Speaker 3: whether it has completely destroyed the site, you would need
Speaker 3: people on the ground, wouldn't you.
Speaker 16: Some ways, you're going to need to be able to
Speaker 16: exploit that site, probably with someone there on the ground.
Speaker 16: There may be some clandestine sources that you can use.
Speaker 16: There's probably some measures and signals, intelligence and other things
Speaker 16: that will help build that complete picture. But yes, Sherry,
Speaker 16: unless you're really at the site and you can see
Speaker 16: that damage firsthand, it's hard to make a full assessment.
Speaker 3: Just finally, when you have dropped a bomb of that size,
Speaker 3: if you have in your professional.
Speaker 2: Experience, what is it like? What is the sound like?
Speaker 3: You know, do you have to get out of the
Speaker 3: area pretty quickly?
Speaker 2: What's the impact like?
Speaker 16: Well, Sherry, in this case, you can certainly feel it
Speaker 16: on the airplane. When thirty pounds falls off the airplane,
Speaker 16: there's going to be an effect on the flight, and
Speaker 16: certainly their practice they understand that. But as far as
Speaker 16: other effects, you know, they're dropping them from medium altitude
Speaker 16: and so the impact of that weapon is probably going
Speaker 16: to take about a minute for it to fall and
Speaker 16: hit the ground, and they're continuing to fly on to
Speaker 16: either their next target or to leave the target area.
Speaker 16: They're not going to really realize any of the effects,
Speaker 16: whether that's a shock wave or a flash or anything
Speaker 16: like that.
Speaker 3: Fascinating mac Rington. Really appreciate your time and insights tonight.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Now after the break, the Prime Minister's
Speaker 3: former press director Daniel Seaman would join me.
Speaker 2: That's after this next break, welcome back. Well.
Speaker 3: In the Iranian strikes, yesterday after the ceasefire was announced,
Speaker 3: a beautiful family was murdered.
Speaker 2: Here's mother Michel zachs her.
Speaker 3: Son Etan, his girlfriend Noah, and the fourth victim was
Speaker 3: no Mischannan who lived in a nearby apartment. Joining us
Speaker 3: now the Prime Minister's former press director Daniel Seaman. Daniel,
Speaker 3: thank you again for your time. Look, this is the
Speaker 3: latest example of Iran targeting civilians after the ceasefire was announced.
Speaker 17: Now they claimed that it was done before the hour,
Speaker 17: but they ignore the fact that they was supposed to
Speaker 17: be seven o'clock their time. They are an hour ahead
Speaker 17: of Israel, so they knew very well that they were
Speaker 17: firing at the afterwards in violating.
Speaker 18: But it's nothing new. They always are held to different
Speaker 18: standards and always violate the principles. So we're not surprised.
Speaker 18: But that was yesterday. We have to move on because
Speaker 18: the war here is not over yet.
Speaker 2: Well, the ceasefire deal.
Speaker 3: You say, the world's not over yet, but the ceasefire
Speaker 3: deal does look like it's holding despite that rocky start.
Speaker 2: Do you think this is going to last?
Speaker 10: No, because it never does. They make it very clear.
Speaker 10: They say what their intent is.
Speaker 18: The people in the West choose, and I admit, even
Speaker 18: in Israel for too many years when the jihadists were
Speaker 18: telling us something or threatening us, we tend to ignore
Speaker 18: it and apply our values and our principles.
Speaker 10: On them and think that they hold.
Speaker 18: To them, and they don't, and they'll look for different
Speaker 18: ways of doing it.
Speaker 10: I think.
Speaker 18: The interesting thing yet, from what Trump did yesterday was
Speaker 18: not only sending a message to Israel when he was
Speaker 18: angry at Israel.
Speaker 10: Fine, but I think it was more a message to
Speaker 10: the other side.
Speaker 18: Look, if I with my ally, who I appreciate and
Speaker 18: hold the high esteem I'm holding them to observe and
Speaker 18: commit themselves to the ceasefire, you can imagine what I'll
Speaker 18: do to them. So I think this was a roundabout
Speaker 18: way of signaling to them very much that he's serious
Speaker 18: about the ceasefire.
Speaker 10: So it very well could be. But Trump has also
Speaker 10: said that if he sees that they're.
Speaker 18: Continuing to try to develop a nuclear bomb, it's unacceptable
Speaker 18: what this means to see in the future.
Speaker 10: And NATANIEO have been very good at keeping things.
Speaker 18: I don't want to say secret, but I've been very
Speaker 18: mum about what their intentions are.
Speaker 10: We know what the goal is, but how they're going
Speaker 10: to go about doing it.
Speaker 18: They've done a very good job of doing what is
Speaker 18: necessary when it's necessary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was speaking on the show last night
Speaker 3: about the formidable partnership they were forging, and then you know,
Speaker 3: just as we came to that view, Trump publicly criticized
Speaker 3: Israel verbally and on truth. Knowing Ntanyahu as you do,
Speaker 3: how would he have taken this sort of public rebuke.
Speaker 18: Natanielle is the kind of person who keeps his He's
Speaker 18: focused on the ball.
Speaker 10: He keeps his eye on the ball. He knows what
Speaker 10: needs to be done.
Speaker 19: He ignores the media and the clapping of the media.
Speaker 19: He ignores what is the clamoring going on with the public.
Speaker 19: He's very focused on It's the same thing here with Trump.
Speaker 18: He focuses on the relationship between the United States and Israel.
Speaker 10: He knows very well that Trump is the President of
Speaker 10: the United States.
Speaker 18: He has his interests, but Natanielle knows that he's the
Speaker 18: Prime Minister of the State of Israel.
Speaker 10: He will keep his eye focused on our interests.
Speaker 18: And as long as we can work together with the
Speaker 18: United States and advance the looks. Some of the interests
Speaker 18: of the United States coincide, but those of Israel, so
Speaker 18: he'll do that.
Speaker 10: They did talk afterwards. They had a very good conversation.
Speaker 18: He knows who he's dealing with, so I don't think
Speaker 18: he's not going to let that change his goal and
Speaker 18: his focus on what needs to be done.
Speaker 10: And we'll do it the best way possible with the
Speaker 10: United States.
Speaker 3: Right, Daniel Stephen, thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: And that's all we've got time for tonight. I'll see
Speaker 3: you tomorrow at eight. And right now, here's Paul Murray.