Speaker 1: Get a Groover's Craig Anthony Ar Tiffany and Cook and
Speaker 1: Andrew bran May. I made that up. What's your middle name, mate,
Speaker 1: Dick ri Richard? Yeah, Andrew, we're going to go with
Speaker 1: Dick Andrew Dick may or he may not. Tiff, Welcome
Speaker 1: to you. How are you good?
Speaker 2: This is the second May in a row, consecutive mays.
Speaker 2: Brianna was right before this was May as well.
Speaker 1: Well, of course we we just did a podcast which
Speaker 1: Tiff and I got out of about three point seven
Speaker 1: minutes ago with Brianna May, the fabulous Brianni May, who
Speaker 1: neither of us knew.
Speaker 2: But she was quite impressive, wasn't she, Tiff? And now
Speaker 2: we're all besties. So cho's Bill Andrew May.
Speaker 3: Sorry to let you down, Tiff, but it's going to
Speaker 3: be downhill from here. I think started downhill before. We
Speaker 3: have had a floppy microphone, but I fixed it up.
Speaker 3: We're good to go.
Speaker 1: Well, we don't want you having, you know, performance issues
Speaker 1: with your microphone on the podcast, just for.
Speaker 3: People listening, so I don't think we're just getting thrown
Speaker 3: into Dick jokes. Even though it's my middle name. It
Speaker 3: just kept dropping down. It was really disconcerting. So we
Speaker 3: fixed it up.
Speaker 1: We're ready to go. What you want to do is
Speaker 1: you want to undersell and over deliver. So we'll keep
Speaker 1: people's expectations low for the moment and that we'll build
Speaker 1: to an inspirational, educational crescendo at about minute forty. So
Speaker 1: sit on the edge of you seat, everyone, Andrew, welcome
Speaker 1: back to the show. It's been a long time, my friend.
Speaker 1: And yesterday I spoke with you. Are you in wa
Speaker 1: or Queensland? Yesterday? I think wa.
Speaker 3: Wa Garden Island. There is a garden island in Sydney
Speaker 3: with a naval base, and there's one in Wa as well.
Speaker 3: I was there with a bunch of people from Defense
Speaker 3: doing a program we're doing. It's called social Mastery. So
Speaker 3: in defense they've got domain mastery, AirLand, Sea technical mastery.
Speaker 3: You could be a diesel mechanic or you could be
Speaker 3: a fighter pilot. And they got this thing Tip and
Speaker 3: Harps called social mastery. And this surprised me. Harps, but
Speaker 3: a consulting firm when in about ten years ago charged
Speaker 3: in an exorbitant amount of money, gave them sweet fa
Speaker 3: and I'm sent the invoice and it's sat there gathering dusk.
Speaker 3: So we've had a beautiful opportunity with a part of
Speaker 3: Navy first of all called MAS Maritime Acquisition Sustainment to
Speaker 3: do a pilot and then that's now being picked up
Speaker 3: and I'm really proud of it, of the program and
Speaker 3: the relationship. So now we're working across Navy, Army, Air
Speaker 3: Force and APS Australian public sector. So we're there yesterday
Speaker 3: with a bunch of wonderful men and women whose job
Speaker 3: literally is to serve and defend our country.
Speaker 1: Y'ah amazing, well, good forew congratulations on that. Are they
Speaker 1: Are they receptive? How are they when a civilian walks
Speaker 1: in the room and starts to tell them what to
Speaker 1: do and how to do it so to speak? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good question.
Speaker 3: When I first launched this program two and a half
Speaker 3: three years ago, we had half the room with our
Speaker 3: file to thinking who's his idiot with a shiny head
Speaker 3: up the front. But we've had some really good partners there.
Speaker 3: And you two know this. When you're doing a corporate
Speaker 3: program and you em better, you don't try and be
Speaker 3: the people you're working with. You show a respect, you
Speaker 3: show a learning about where they are, but come with
Speaker 3: an outside perspective, and that's something you told me years ago, Harps.
Speaker 3: You don't have to be anyone other than yourself. You know,
Speaker 3: you're the best version of yourself. So we found a
Speaker 3: really nice sweet spot. And then I got to thank
Speaker 3: you as well, Jackie Lauder, Jack one of your good mates,
Speaker 3: the Collingwood sports psych Melbourne Storm sports psych. I introduced
Speaker 3: jack and say she's the best mental skills coach in
Speaker 3: the world, and she whispers to me, what are you?
Speaker 3: I said, I'm way behind you, Champ. But Jackie's doing
Speaker 3: work on that program as well. We're bringing a whole
Speaker 3: different bunch of people in so that's been really nice.
Speaker 3: So it's not the knee show. We bought in Kieran
Speaker 3: Gribbon recently. He's the most recent lead singer of an Excess.
Speaker 3: So can you imagine this, Harps. And if you're starting
Speaker 3: a program with five hundred people at the ad For
Speaker 3: Academy and Canberra and you've got this rock star literally
Speaker 3: up the front singing myster Fi on an acoustic guitar,
Speaker 3: like there's no there is no competing against that, and
Speaker 3: every man and woman in the room either wanted to
Speaker 3: be him or be with him, probably a combination of
Speaker 3: the two.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's a good idea to bring
Speaker 1: in people that are way better. They're and smarter and
Speaker 1: more talented than you.
Speaker 3: Mate, I've learned that, Harps the last and you've done
Speaker 3: this beautifully. Mate. You are the massive underselling. You are
Speaker 3: much more than the fat kid from MOWI. You bring
Speaker 3: all these people on the podcast. So that's one thing
Speaker 3: I've learned Harps and Tiff is to be conscious of
Speaker 3: what you're good at and then to bring other people
Speaker 3: in and to have a collective sum that's much bigger
Speaker 3: than you by yourself.
Speaker 1: Taking a while to learn that, Harps. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're always We spoke just an hour ago when
Speaker 1: we're talking with Briann, and we spoke about the same
Speaker 1: thing about you know, it sounds cheesy being the lifelong learner, right,
Speaker 1: but it's true. It's like and all that, you know,
Speaker 1: the world's my classroom, everyone's potential teacher. It sounds like bullshit,
Speaker 1: but when you scrape the cheese off it, it's fucking true.
Speaker 1: It's like I learn even when I am coaching someone
Speaker 1: or I'm working with a group, and I'm the one
Speaker 1: kind of commissioned. With the teaching role. I'm still learning
Speaker 1: from them what not to do and how not to
Speaker 1: be and occasionally being corrected on a point of fact,
Speaker 1: you know where I go, Oh, I got that wrong,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think if you can't genuinely be
Speaker 1: okay with fucking up and getting stuff wrong, well, then
Speaker 1: you're just operating an ego and then you're never going
Speaker 1: to be a great teacher anyway.
Speaker 3: I think if you get like that, you give up,
Speaker 3: and if you're probably given a bit of leeway. I'm
Speaker 3: not as a young boy or girl or whipper snipper,
Speaker 3: we dance between that performance based identity. I perform, therefore
Speaker 3: I am, and I recommend it up until forty x
Speaker 3: ex exogenous external extrinsic. It was very much related to
Speaker 3: faux po fear of other people's opinion that doctor Michael
Speaker 3: Tavais talks about. And then you get to a couple
Speaker 3: of life events or maybe you get your head out
Speaker 3: of your proverbial or a bit of mentoring and do
Speaker 3: a bit more research and study and realize, hey, performing
Speaker 3: is good so I can have a strong personal identity
Speaker 3: and capital And what's this all about? A purpose based identity,
Speaker 3: and a purpose based identity is more around meaning and
Speaker 3: that connection to why and why you're here on the planet.
Speaker 3: So I've spent a lot of time perps thinking about
Speaker 3: this myself the last five years, and I do a
Speaker 3: lot of work around this with executives, getting that balance
Speaker 3: right between the performer and you. And I spoke about
Speaker 3: this in our last podcast, that balance between the performer
Speaker 3: on the stage in the cauldron and the person and
Speaker 3: getting vation between the two, but then really looking at Okay,
Speaker 3: I can perform, but what's it all about? So back
Speaker 3: to what you're saying, part of that balance. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: learned more from some of my exact clients made who
Speaker 3: run banks or consulting firms. And I feel guilty sometimes
Speaker 3: sending an invoice because I'm sending this invoice, it's studios
Speaker 3: that I'm actually charging you, and as I'm going for
Speaker 3: a coaching session or walking with you having a coffee,
Speaker 3: you're filling up my cup and I think I should
Speaker 3: be paying you. But if any of my coaching clients
Speaker 3: listen to that, I'm not holding you to it. We
Speaker 3: like the invoices to be paid harps, but I like
Speaker 3: acknowledging that you're so true lifelong learner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, And I told you yesterday. I've been
Speaker 1: doing a little bit of work with Victoria Police, who
Speaker 1: are great, and about a month ago I did my
Speaker 1: first session with them, and it was a day. It
Speaker 1: was a whole day, and there was a little bit
Speaker 1: of legs crossed and arms crossed and mind's crossed at
Speaker 1: the start as well. And it wasn't that they weren't open,
Speaker 1: it was just that they didn't know me. Some of
Speaker 1: them knew me but or knew of me, but most didn't.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's really interesting because you go in with
Speaker 1: an idea of what you're going to do, what you're
Speaker 1: going to talk about. You know, with me, it's a
Speaker 1: vague structure. I'm not as structured and as methodical and
Speaker 1: as organized as you are. I don't think made. I'm
Speaker 1: a little bit more like you know, golden retriever sixty
Speaker 1: year old golden retriever around food. That's a bit me.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because I felt a shift about might
Speaker 1: at know, we started at nine, maybe quught it at nine.
Speaker 1: By about eleven, there was a real shift of energy
Speaker 1: in the room and everyone was on board and all
Speaker 1: the arms and the legs were uncrossing, and it's like
Speaker 1: it just takes a while to build that trust and
Speaker 1: respect and rapport, and you know, sometimes you don't. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't get there. But it's that knowing, knowing what
Speaker 1: to share and what not to share, and which doors
Speaker 1: to open and not and what questions to ask or
Speaker 1: not to ask. And I got to about midday and
Speaker 1: I hadn't sworn, which is like, really, I know, I know,
Speaker 1: it's like not breathing. Way I nearly said the F
Speaker 1: word and I said sorry, I nearly dropped the F bomb.
Speaker 1: And I said, by the way, you do not know
Speaker 1: how amazingly restrained I've been today. I go I normally
Speaker 1: swear a lot, and they're like, oh, we'll feel free.
Speaker 1: I go really, and the boss goes, fuck yeah. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, all right, let him go to let him go. Hey.
Speaker 3: Two things on that. One is I'm less planned than
Speaker 3: I used to. I like the oxymoron planned spontaneity. So
Speaker 3: I'll go into a workshop, I'll go into doing work
Speaker 3: with athletes or a sporting team. I'll have a structure.
Speaker 3: And then the spontaneity part is you adapt because you
Speaker 3: can say, right, I've got it mapped out from part
Speaker 3: one to ten and they're not ready for six or
Speaker 3: they need to jump to part eight from three. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's the model, is planned spontaneity.
Speaker 1: Two.
Speaker 3: A question for both of you will flip it around.
Speaker 3: The confidence of a psychological constructor is two components. It's
Speaker 3: one doing the work and two it's backing yourself. So
Speaker 3: I'd say, the reason why you can go into a
Speaker 3: room and have a sheet of paper and a whole
Speaker 3: bit of stories and ideas and am I going to
Speaker 3: drop the F bomb or not is because you've got
Speaker 3: confidence and you built that over years.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: A more detailed definition of confidence is you've got the
Speaker 3: internal resources to match your external demands, and you've trained
Speaker 3: that in multiple ways. And I heard the beautiful podcast
Speaker 3: you did about mentor mentee, but you even flipped it
Speaker 3: and said you're learning as much from Tiff as she
Speaker 3: used from you. So the question I've got for both
Speaker 3: of you, do you still when you go to a
Speaker 3: room like you're going into police do you have that
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome?
Speaker 1: Harps? Yeah, the volume goes up and down. I think
Speaker 1: for me, it's like people think I'm very confident and
Speaker 1: I am sometimes and sometimes not, I will. So part
Speaker 1: of my PhD is doing basically these reviews where you
Speaker 1: stand in front of an academic board and they're called
Speaker 1: academic milestones. And my last one was a few months ago,
Speaker 1: where I had to go and stand in front of
Speaker 1: a board and present my research and findings and methodology
Speaker 1: and basically justify your place in the program. Right, Mazie,
Speaker 1: I am so fucking out of my comfort zone because
Speaker 1: they don't. Firstly, not that they should. They don't give
Speaker 1: a fuck about me any more than any other student,
Speaker 1: and neither should they. But you know, I'm used to
Speaker 1: going into a space where I'm the guy up the front,
Speaker 1: teaching and talking and getting paid well. Right, So with
Speaker 1: that comes I guess a sense of whatever. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: done this a lot, I'm back here. I'm doing it again.
Speaker 1: I'm not terrible at it. That's why they bring me back.
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. But people say to me, have said
Speaker 1: to me many times, oh, you'll kill that, like the
Speaker 1: academic review. No, it's like standing naked in a bunch
Speaker 1: of judges who do not know you all. You are
Speaker 1: a student number three, five, one, two, six or whatever
Speaker 1: I am, and You're being entirely judged on your academic output,
Speaker 1: and so all my bullshit isn't worth anything. All my charisma,
Speaker 1: my stories, my skills, my it doesn't count at all.
Speaker 3: In fact, it probably works against you if you pull
Speaker 3: out the jazz hands and the charisma and your flexic Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the stuff.
Speaker 1: That he might fucking go to the jazz hand.
Speaker 3: Joe's head has been tapped down, like, oh, I don't.
Speaker 1: Compostly make the most terrifying hour of my last year.
Speaker 1: And also my dad had a heart attack in the
Speaker 1: last year, but this was still more terrifying? Was that hour?
Speaker 1: My final review? I'm like, I was so fucking scared
Speaker 1: and so bad, so bad.
Speaker 3: If we get a bit meta on that, get above it.
Speaker 3: How awesome is it that at your youthful stage in
Speaker 3: your career and you've been doing this for a long time,
Speaker 3: And for context I went to you. We mentioned this
Speaker 3: in one of our previous podcasts. I was twenty one,
Speaker 3: had a full head of hair half the way I
Speaker 3: am now, had a gold hoop hearing it's a good look.
Speaker 4: Tiff, only I'll require a photo.
Speaker 3: I'll send one through and like the ladies were really
Speaker 3: like wanting to come and meet me. They just they
Speaker 3: were too shy to let me know. But I remember
Speaker 3: speaking to you way back then, Harps, and you were
Speaker 3: giving and you're still learning, and what are we talking
Speaker 3: twenty five years later? So I love hearing that you
Speaker 3: are putting yourself in a position only foreignty where you
Speaker 3: scare the shit out of here.
Speaker 1: The growth of.
Speaker 3: Learning you get from that is so much better than
Speaker 3: sticking in the comfort lane up the front and your
Speaker 3: pants and your bare feet and your sheet, doing what
Speaker 3: you've done all the.
Speaker 1: Time, one hundred percent. And I think, you know, there's
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of cliches that when you get past,
Speaker 1: like I said before, or the cheesiness of them, they're true.
Speaker 1: And I've said this to Tiff many times. I go,
Speaker 1: when you're the smartest in the room, get out of
Speaker 1: the room, go to another room, And the moment that
Speaker 1: I think I'm getting pretty good, generally, problems happen. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like I know what I'm not bad at. I
Speaker 1: also know what I don't know, and there's so much
Speaker 1: more that I don't know. There's so many skills that
Speaker 1: I don't have. There's so much understanding that I don't have.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying this to sound noble and fucking humble,
Speaker 1: It's just true. So like everyone, you optimize your strengths
Speaker 1: as much as you can while not pretending that you
Speaker 1: don't have weaknesses. And I think, you know, when we
Speaker 1: think about I'm diverging a little bit. But when we
Speaker 1: think about health, we think about longevity, we think about wellness,
Speaker 1: cognitive function, physiological function. I'm sure that and I'm not
Speaker 1: genetically gifted, but I'm sure that I'm in pretty good
Speaker 1: shape just because I keep getting uncomfortable, you know, just
Speaker 1: because I keep doing shit that I'm not good at
Speaker 1: and I eventually get good at it. But I've been
Speaker 1: doing that since I was you know, fourteen is just
Speaker 1: starting things that when I start, I'm a white belt,
Speaker 1: and it's like I've never started anything that I was
Speaker 1: automatically good at.
Speaker 3: Ever, you know, when I grew up and when i'm
Speaker 3: your age, I hope I had the same level of curiosity. Yeah, well,
Speaker 3: I think it's it's like I think for me, like
Speaker 3: just like lifting weights keeps your body young, and but
Speaker 3: it literally does from a functional perspective. Obviously, chronology is
Speaker 3: another thing, but physiology is manipulatable, the way we age,
Speaker 3: we can we can influence largely now, but also the
Speaker 3: way that our brain ages, the way that our brain works,
Speaker 3: the way that our brain you know, builds muscle in
Speaker 3: inverted commas or wastes. You know, all of this stuff
Speaker 3: is to a point within our control. And you know
Speaker 3: it's just and it's cliche, but it also is just
Speaker 3: a matter of doing the work like which isn't.
Speaker 1: Sexy, fun quick reps and sets.
Speaker 3: We talk about it background both as a strength and
Speaker 3: conditioning coach. Do you want to get strong, powerful, fit
Speaker 3: and fast, you go to the gym, you go the pool,
Speaker 3: the track, the VELODROMEI you do the reps and sets.
Speaker 3: If you want to be strong mentally, emotionally, cognitively, you've
Speaker 3: also got to do the reps and sets. A native
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome, Do you get it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was going to say, before you know, five or
Speaker 2: six years ago, or whenever I started my Harps stalking
Speaker 2: mentor stalking journey, it was actually the moment there was
Speaker 2: a conversation or something where Harps talked about imposter syndrome
Speaker 2: and talked about that idea that he still he still
Speaker 2: had that experience yet the dial turns up and down.
Speaker 2: That was a moment for me where I went, oh,
Speaker 2: if Craig Harper gets imposter syndrome, I better get off
Speaker 2: my ass and get busy. That was a big moment
Speaker 2: for me. And I think another thing is I see
Speaker 2: myself play small around people. So in some spaces I
Speaker 2: can self promote and feel confident and go and know
Speaker 2: have real confidence in what I'm all about. And then
Speaker 2: and it's been a grapple sometimes working alongside Harps and
Speaker 2: with Harps in that respect, because I had I started
Speaker 2: off as that he's the mentor, he's the guru, He's
Speaker 2: the guy that I want to be aligned with. And
Speaker 2: then when I was lucky enough to be aligned with him,
Speaker 2: I was really you know, I'd feel myself play small
Speaker 2: and maybe as a sign of respect or intimidation at times.
Speaker 4: So that's been something to grapple with too.
Speaker 3: I can know you're much better, Harps. And I'm thinking
Speaker 3: of my situation. My tiff is ang And when Anne
Speaker 3: started we're at KPMG. I went in there as a
Speaker 3: lateral higher partner, which means alien they bought my business.
Speaker 3: I had no idea about risk compliance, stakeholder engagement swore
Speaker 3: way too much and I was so green, so they
Speaker 3: gave Ange to me. We're so different, but we're so balanced.
Speaker 3: She is so much of an asset for me, and
Speaker 3: Ange will say I'm an asset for her. So it's
Speaker 3: really shifted and I now see the relationship as not
Speaker 3: on a boss and she follows. We dance between followership
Speaker 3: and leadership. That's really nice when a relationship evolved. So
Speaker 3: you've got your organization chart, then you've got your skill domain.
Speaker 3: So I like to think with my team and the
Speaker 3: teams I work with. You you have a different title,
Speaker 3: but you get that blend between Hey, I'm going to
Speaker 3: follow and and really look to what you do, and
Speaker 3: then other times I'm going to lead. I think that's
Speaker 3: a big learning from defense. They talk about followership is
Speaker 3: a skill as well as leading.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know when you're interviewing a podcaster, because
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he fucking starts interviewing us, like,
Speaker 1: what's happened, what's happened?
Speaker 4: Very smooth, what'smooth?
Speaker 1: What's going on? And how good is his voice? I
Speaker 1: could just go to sleep with It's super sexy. I
Speaker 1: could go to sleep with him just talking in my ear.
Speaker 4: Should records some meditations for insight time.
Speaker 3: Andrew, we're doing some I'm doing some meditations for my
Speaker 3: Manly Boys. I work with a man mighty Manly Seagles,
Speaker 3: and we're getting into mind from as heaps, Tiff and harp.
Speaker 3: So we have Yeah, we've got We've got ten minute
Speaker 3: tracks because the research shows the med minimum effective dose
Speaker 3: for mindfulness is about six minutes. Ten minutes is better.
Speaker 3: Twenty seven to twenty eight is awesome, but I'm not
Speaker 3: going to get any athlete to do twenty seven to
Speaker 3: twenty eight. So there We've got a bunch of mindfulness
Speaker 3: tracks that we do. In fact, Harps, you love this.
Speaker 3: We're starting now the week and it varies because the
Speaker 3: Boys will play anywhere from Thursday nights through until Monday
Speaker 3: if it's a public holiday, normally Thursday to Sunday, so
Speaker 3: the start of the week could be Sunday, it could
Speaker 3: be Tuesday or Wednesday. But the first I'm so proud
Speaker 3: of this. The first fifteen minutes of the week is
Speaker 3: Manly Mindfulness, where we spend fifteen minutes get the boys.
Speaker 3: They sit up close the eye, so you're shutting off
Speaker 3: the irs connected to the brain. And processing information, so
Speaker 3: we give them a little bit of info, Harps, not
Speaker 3: too much. The first couple of minutes is just compartmentalizing
Speaker 3: what happened last week. Just put it in a lunch box,
Speaker 3: wipe the board clean. Then we get into a bit
Speaker 3: of breathing to change state. Then we do some gratitude
Speaker 3: what are you grateful for? And then part three is
Speaker 3: then really narrow the focus. This week we're playing this team.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: And in fifteen minutes and what I laugh is I've
Speaker 3: had boys tiff sort of digressing, but it's connected to
Speaker 3: your question. The boys said, hey, can you record something?
Speaker 3: So we have.
Speaker 1: I'm just delighted, Harps.
Speaker 3: So I've got big footballers up to one hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty five kilo saying can you give me an audio
Speaker 3: track that I can play at home so I can
Speaker 3: be chilled with my missus and my kids.
Speaker 1: Mate, you genuinely have a great voice for it. I
Speaker 1: fucking hate my voice, so I'd rather listen to you
Speaker 1: than me. And that's not me trying to make you
Speaker 1: feel good. You have a great voice for it, and I.
Speaker 3: Think what's interesting everyone thinks. So I listened to your
Speaker 3: podcast and go Yeah, he's got a really good resonance
Speaker 3: and I love the dance between you two as well.
Speaker 1: It's the contrast.
Speaker 3: But I had voice lessons a number of years ago
Speaker 3: when I was in Hobart, because when I was doing
Speaker 3: half day workshops, it started with a Keino then half
Speaker 3: day workshops, did a few full day and my voices
Speaker 3: you know, you get that raspy voice. Yeah, both had
Speaker 3: a lot of your audience speak a lot they've had it.
Speaker 3: So I went to Lorraine Merit from Neither originally from
Speaker 3: lon cesstin Tasmania. I can't say Lorraine without talking like that.
Speaker 3: And she got me to do some wonderful voice exercises
Speaker 3: and I still do them. I do them before I speak.
Speaker 3: In fact, I do have a podcast Harps and I
Speaker 3: interviewed small Thing Kiir and Gribbin from in Excess. I
Speaker 3: mentioned him before and I was asking him about what
Speaker 3: does he do as a performer going through voice exercises,
Speaker 3: and it's similar to the stuff I've learned from the rain.
Speaker 3: So yeah, her name was popped up twice today. Well,
Speaker 3: there is a person on this call at the moment
Speaker 3: who also is from Tasmania, a lon Cestern specific Sorry, sorry, jeez.
Speaker 1: At least from Hobart the nemesis nemosis. Hey, I just
Speaker 1: want to step back one bit that I didn't get
Speaker 1: a chance because you two fucking talk too much. I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about impost syndrome a little bit, just
Speaker 1: to say that I think one of the mistakes that
Speaker 1: we make is that we try to defeat imposter syndrome,
Speaker 1: defeat insecurity, defeat self doubt. It's like, no, dude, no,
Speaker 1: You're just going to coexist with it. It like it's
Speaker 1: for me it, you know, Like I said, the volume
Speaker 1: goes up and down. Sometimes I think I'm all right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think I'm doing terrible. Sometimes I'm intimidated. People
Speaker 1: would think I would never get intimidated, not in a
Speaker 1: physical fear sense, but in a like I interviewed a
Speaker 1: guy this morning who's the world authority on forgiveness, and
Speaker 1: he's written a bunch of how.
Speaker 3: Many times you just apologize?
Speaker 1: But he was like, really brilliant, you know, And I
Speaker 1: know that I'm okay at interviewing. I know, I know.
Speaker 1: Can I just pause, Tiff, well done?
Speaker 3: He didn't acknowledge that that was a good He just
Speaker 3: he just rolled over, what did.
Speaker 4: You say, did you ask for some forgiveness?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to seek forgiveness. This is your podcast.
Speaker 1: Sorry anyway, all good. All I was going to say is,
Speaker 1: even this morning, I was feeling somewhat insecure because I'm thinking, Fuck,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like this guy is the guy in
Speaker 1: the world on this topic. And I hope my questions
Speaker 1: I always not always. I periodically worry when someone's been
Speaker 1: interviewed hundreds of times and they're in a very specific
Speaker 1: field that I'm going to ask them questions that they're like,
Speaker 1: fuck this question again. You know they're going to roll
Speaker 1: their eyes. Oh that old press play press play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I try. I try to avoid that.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you closing up on the
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. I like that dial it up and down
Speaker 3: because I talk about the extremes of imposter syndrome. If
Speaker 3: you don't have it, you are a narcissistic asshole and
Speaker 3: around like if you just rock into everything and you
Speaker 3: think you're a leegiand other people do not have the
Speaker 3: same shared experience. And I believe you've done a PhD
Speaker 3: in that if you have too much imposter syndrome, it
Speaker 3: cripples you. So it's a bit like golded locks in
Speaker 3: the three. You know, this porridge is just right. I
Speaker 3: had a big dose of imposter syndrome earlier this week,
Speaker 3: and I love that I did because it means I'm
Speaker 3: challenging myself. Imposter syndrome means your care. The impost syndrome
Speaker 3: means what you're doing is important to you. So the
Speaker 3: interview you had earlier today, you care about that a
Speaker 3: lot more than some blake with a shiny head.
Speaker 1: Oh, I care mate, I want to impre. I did
Speaker 1: a gig last week for Fernwood, God Bless Fernwood, and
Speaker 1: I went in there and I was spoken with Furwood
Speaker 1: a bunch. They like me. I like them. We have
Speaker 1: a good time. Went to Queensland six months ago, spoke
Speaker 1: at their national conference, and then I spoke down here
Speaker 1: last week and I went in pretty confident I'm going
Speaker 1: to go about a nine. I was about a nine.
Speaker 1: And then I walked in and Donna Aston was speaking,
Speaker 1: and Donna Aston was fucking crushing and I'm like, and
Speaker 1: they loved her like that she had them. She had
Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty women in the palm of
Speaker 1: her hand, and she could have taken a dump on stage,
Speaker 1: she would have got a fucking round of applause, like
Speaker 1: they loved her right, and she was brilliant, And as
Speaker 1: I was sitting in the middle of her brilliance, my
Speaker 1: confidence just started to die and I'm like, oh fuck,
Speaker 1: I don't want to follow her. She's us. So by
Speaker 1: the time I got up there, I was about a
Speaker 1: rock solid four. I had to work my way into it.
Speaker 3: That's probably about that's that self regulation mechanisms, Yeah, closing
Speaker 3: it out. I now regularly want the bean situations where
Speaker 3: I have imposter syndrome and if you're not, you're probably
Speaker 3: not stretching. So so earlier in the week I went
Speaker 3: in and Joe Schmid invited me into the Wallabies camp.
Speaker 3: So the Wallabies play a time of recording. They play
Speaker 3: Wales tomorrow, so there's a new coach, three new assistant coaches,
Speaker 3: new how to performance, new physio. Out of the players
Speaker 3: that went to the Debarkle under Eddie Jones Well Cup
Speaker 3: last year, there's only twelve players in this squad out
Speaker 3: of thirty eight, so it's a whole new rasion. So
Speaker 3: they're all nervous. Joe's asked me to come in for
Speaker 3: two days, which was awesome. I was so nervous. In fact,
Speaker 3: that morning I got there early and I went to
Speaker 3: a coffee shop and I just sat out and had
Speaker 3: a coffee. But I've done a bit of work with
Speaker 3: some of the war retars boys, so I know a
Speaker 3: few of them. But I was really nervous, and I
Speaker 3: actually was sitting in there, going, this is good, This.
Speaker 1: Means I care.
Speaker 3: Dial it back a bit, cham because I don't want
Speaker 3: to go in there because if you're too nervous, you're
Speaker 3: going to say something stupid and be a bit of
Speaker 3: a dick.
Speaker 1: So just getting the.
Speaker 3: Filter right and knowing that that awareness that this means
Speaker 3: I care, but then down regulate, relax a little bit,
Speaker 3: go back to you. I've done stuff like this before.
Speaker 3: It's not you. I'm not being judged, and get that
Speaker 3: nice filter.
Speaker 1: You're definitely being judged, but that's okay. You always are.
Speaker 1: Everyone's always watching. Hey, what's the convergence and divergence of
Speaker 1: working with athletes versus corporates? So what's what's resonant, what's
Speaker 1: relevant and what's irrelevant or what's the same and what's different.
Speaker 3: What's irrelevant is when you stand up and go hey,
Speaker 3: I work with insert sport, and this is the way
Speaker 3: you kick the winning goal in the AFL Grand Final.
Speaker 3: This is the way you whip it out the back
Speaker 3: line with speed and get your wing or outside back
Speaker 3: to score a try. This is the way you're dominating
Speaker 3: a fight. And the upper cut that sitting there going
Speaker 3: you're a wanker, mate, and you've got no idea about
Speaker 3: how to run a bank or a FMC or a
Speaker 3: transport company. I'm really really conscious probably over to it
Speaker 3: sometimes of some of these stories I'm going to tell
Speaker 3: you relate to sport, and then there's storytelling when you're
Speaker 3: doing a conference or a podcast. Yes, but I'm really
Speaker 3: clear as well that it's not exactly the same. What's
Speaker 3: also really different. Sport's easy from a recovery and loading
Speaker 3: point of view, because with our athletes in season AFL, NRL,
Speaker 3: Super Rugby Netball, they have a defined competition, so they
Speaker 3: know when they're playing, when they're recovering, and it's this
Speaker 3: beautiful oscillation between stress and recovery. Yeah, you've got crowd media,
Speaker 3: sponsorships and there's all these other complexities, but in many
Speaker 3: ways it's much more simple. Whereas you're the see of
Speaker 3: a bank or you're the ceover Telco.
Speaker 1: You don't have this.
Speaker 3: Beautiful oscillation between stress and recovery. You might have a
Speaker 3: board member who comes out they've had an or something,
Speaker 3: sleats at an off site, and you're about to go
Speaker 3: to Hawaii. You get a phone call and you have
Speaker 3: to stay home, so you're always on. So there's a
Speaker 3: huge contrast in that as well. What I like though,
Speaker 3: is and I'm sure you did this, Whereas for years
Speaker 3: it was me from sport into corporate and then I
Speaker 3: just went corporate. Now I've actually used corporate to go
Speaker 3: back to sport. I'm working across a number of different
Speaker 3: teams in different sports doing mental skills and leadership. A
Speaker 3: number of years ago, it would have been you just
Speaker 3: do one team and you go and go deep. But
Speaker 3: because I've learned how to scale through technology and have
Speaker 3: a podcast and you take snippets out of that and
Speaker 3: have a digital platform, and I've learned that, Like we
Speaker 3: were talking at the start today, when I run a
Speaker 3: mental skills program, so it mainly I say it's our program,
Speaker 3: so it's as much Anthony c. Buld, the head coach JC,
Speaker 3: had a performance and bails ahead physio and especially with JC.
Speaker 3: He's driving more of the program than I am, Harps,
Speaker 3: So that's been a huge learning that I've adapted from.
Speaker 3: I went to KPMG with no idea about how to
Speaker 3: scale a business because I thought it was me up
Speaker 3: until there. And I had a great coach when I
Speaker 3: went to KPMG. And I didn't realize this, but I
Speaker 3: probably came across as a bit of a selfish asshole.
Speaker 3: And I don't think I am by trait. It just said,
Speaker 3: I've been so used to doing my own thing, and
Speaker 3: then when you go into a consulting firm and there's
Speaker 3: six hundred other partners. The analogy she gave me is, Andrew,
Speaker 3: you've been in a fighter pilot where you've been a
Speaker 3: fighter pilot in your jet and you land and everything's
Speaker 3: about you.
Speaker 1: You're now the co.
Speaker 3: Pilot of an A three eighty with six hundred and
Speaker 3: ninety nine other people and you've got.
Speaker 1: To share the cockpit. Beautiful analogy. I love that.
Speaker 3: But now, Harps, I think I'm in this beautiful place
Speaker 3: at fifty where I feel like I'm just starting and
Speaker 3: I freaking love working across different sports, and I love
Speaker 3: working across corporate and defense and I see it's this
Speaker 3: nice merging of both and you can dial it up
Speaker 3: and dial it back, and then I feel, yeah, I
Speaker 3: feel like. There's a great book called Range by David Epstein,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure you've read it, heard about it, heard
Speaker 3: people talk about it, and it's the collective sum of
Speaker 3: experiences we have has got us to exactly where we
Speaker 3: need to be right now. I reckon it's taken me
Speaker 3: twenty five years to become an overnight success, and a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of experiences, trials, tribulation, success, fuck ups and everything.
Speaker 3: I want way to be in a spot where I'm
Speaker 3: comfortable to do that. Do you talk to.
Speaker 1: Groups and individuals about self awareness, other awareness, social awareness?
Speaker 1: If you do, what do you talk to them about?
Speaker 1: And how do you open that door? Yeah?
Speaker 3: George Angel back in nineteen seventy seven spoke about the
Speaker 3: biopsychosocial model. I think sometimes we come up with stuff
Speaker 3: and do things and think, hey, I'm onto something here,
Speaker 3: and then you out this theory and I go, geez,
Speaker 3: someone else has thought about this. So if there's a
Speaker 3: model I give you, it is that I think it's
Speaker 3: the whole human So bio is your physiology and US
Speaker 3: human and operating system. Psycho is thoughts and feelings and
Speaker 3: emotional and we've got to regularly do an iOS upgrade
Speaker 3: on our head, just like we need to do on
Speaker 3: our iPhones. And then that social is no man, No
Speaker 3: woman is an island. So you look at relationships social,
Speaker 3: you also look at cultural that's massive. I find in sports,
Speaker 3: especially a lot of the Contact Sports Union and league
Speaker 3: high in Pacific notions like I could have the best
Speaker 3: toolkit in the world around psychology. And this is the
Speaker 3: mistake I think a lot of psychs make, or previously
Speaker 3: made when they're running corpor or sports programs. Hey I'm
Speaker 3: a psych and it's about schema, and I've got all
Speaker 3: these tools head down.
Speaker 1: But I know a lot of.
Speaker 3: Players have more of a physical intelligence, so it's legs
Speaker 3: up or toes up, and then some are right in
Speaker 3: the middle. So answering your question of a long way,
Speaker 3: awareness is everything self awareness. And I've been deep on
Speaker 3: mindfulness the past twelve months. And if apparently mindfulness has
Speaker 3: been around a while, it's not new. Two and a
Speaker 3: half thousand years ago, the Japanese samurai were practicing mindfulness.
Speaker 3: You look at different cultures like the Yogis in India.
Speaker 3: We're doing a very similar time. And while you've got
Speaker 3: different cults, there's totally different parts.
Speaker 1: Of the world.
Speaker 3: They didn't have a mobile phone, there was no Snapchat
Speaker 3: or Twitter or whatever it's called these days to share
Speaker 3: information that's fascinating and Buddhism and the evolution of that
Speaker 3: as well. So there's multiple tribes and cultures that you know,
Speaker 3: a couple of thousand years ago were looking at this
Speaker 3: notion of being still and being present and haaps men, women, athletes,
Speaker 3: corporate athletes, everyone in between.
Speaker 1: I'm really bringing.
Speaker 3: A lot more around that mindfulness and that ability to
Speaker 3: be present in the moment without judgment.
Speaker 1: Good a team. I'm going to interrupt myself and Tiff
Speaker 1: and Andrew there. This went for quite a while less
Speaker 1: chat an hour and a half or so, so we're
Speaker 1: going to break there. We'll call that the end of
Speaker 1: part one, and we'll see you tomorrow