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Speaker 1: Get a Groover's Craig Anthony Ar Tiffany and Cook and

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Speaker 1: Andrew bran May. I made that up. What's your middle name, mate,

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Speaker 1: Dick ri Richard? Yeah, Andrew, we're going to go with

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Speaker 1: Dick Andrew Dick may or he may not. Tiff, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to you. How are you good?

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Speaker 2: This is the second May in a row, consecutive mays.

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Speaker 2: Brianna was right before this was May as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, of course we we just did a podcast which

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Speaker 1: Tiff and I got out of about three point seven

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Speaker 1: minutes ago with Brianna May, the fabulous Brianni May, who

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Speaker 1: neither of us knew.

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Speaker 2: But she was quite impressive, wasn't she, Tiff? And now

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Speaker 2: we're all besties. So cho's Bill Andrew May.

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Speaker 3: Sorry to let you down, Tiff, but it's going to

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Speaker 3: be downhill from here. I think started downhill before. We

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Speaker 3: have had a floppy microphone, but I fixed it up.

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Speaker 3: We're good to go.

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Speaker 1: Well, we don't want you having, you know, performance issues

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Speaker 1: with your microphone on the podcast, just for.

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Speaker 3: People listening, so I don't think we're just getting thrown

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Speaker 3: into Dick jokes. Even though it's my middle name. It

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Speaker 3: just kept dropping down. It was really disconcerting. So we

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Speaker 3: fixed it up.

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Speaker 1: We're ready to go. What you want to do is

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Speaker 1: you want to undersell and over deliver. So we'll keep

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Speaker 1: people's expectations low for the moment and that we'll build

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Speaker 1: to an inspirational, educational crescendo at about minute forty. So

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Speaker 1: sit on the edge of you seat, everyone, Andrew, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show. It's been a long time, my friend.

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Speaker 1: And yesterday I spoke with you. Are you in wa

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Speaker 1: or Queensland? Yesterday? I think wa.

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Speaker 3: Wa Garden Island. There is a garden island in Sydney

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Speaker 3: with a naval base, and there's one in Wa as well.

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Speaker 3: I was there with a bunch of people from Defense

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Speaker 3: doing a program we're doing. It's called social Mastery. So

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Speaker 3: in defense they've got domain mastery, AirLand, Sea technical mastery.

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Speaker 3: You could be a diesel mechanic or you could be

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Speaker 3: a fighter pilot. And they got this thing Tip and

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Speaker 3: Harps called social mastery. And this surprised me. Harps, but

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Speaker 3: a consulting firm when in about ten years ago charged

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Speaker 3: in an exorbitant amount of money, gave them sweet fa

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Speaker 3: and I'm sent the invoice and it's sat there gathering dusk.

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Speaker 3: So we've had a beautiful opportunity with a part of

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Speaker 3: Navy first of all called MAS Maritime Acquisition Sustainment to

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Speaker 3: do a pilot and then that's now being picked up

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Speaker 3: and I'm really proud of it, of the program and

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Speaker 3: the relationship. So now we're working across Navy, Army, Air

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Speaker 3: Force and APS Australian public sector. So we're there yesterday

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Speaker 3: with a bunch of wonderful men and women whose job

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Speaker 3: literally is to serve and defend our country.

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Speaker 1: Y'ah amazing, well, good forew congratulations on that. Are they

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Speaker 1: Are they receptive? How are they when a civilian walks

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Speaker 1: in the room and starts to tell them what to

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Speaker 1: do and how to do it so to speak? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good question.

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Speaker 3: When I first launched this program two and a half

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Speaker 3: three years ago, we had half the room with our

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Speaker 3: file to thinking who's his idiot with a shiny head

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Speaker 3: up the front. But we've had some really good partners there.

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Speaker 3: And you two know this. When you're doing a corporate

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Speaker 3: program and you em better, you don't try and be

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Speaker 3: the people you're working with. You show a respect, you

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Speaker 3: show a learning about where they are, but come with

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Speaker 3: an outside perspective, and that's something you told me years ago, Harps.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to be anyone other than yourself. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're the best version of yourself. So we found a

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Speaker 3: really nice sweet spot. And then I got to thank

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Speaker 3: you as well, Jackie Lauder, Jack one of your good mates,

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Speaker 3: the Collingwood sports psych Melbourne Storm sports psych. I introduced

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Speaker 3: jack and say she's the best mental skills coach in

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Speaker 3: the world, and she whispers to me, what are you?

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Speaker 3: I said, I'm way behind you, Champ. But Jackie's doing

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Speaker 3: work on that program as well. We're bringing a whole

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Speaker 3: different bunch of people in so that's been really nice.

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Speaker 3: So it's not the knee show. We bought in Kieran

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Speaker 3: Gribbon recently. He's the most recent lead singer of an Excess.

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Speaker 3: So can you imagine this, Harps. And if you're starting

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Speaker 3: a program with five hundred people at the ad For

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Speaker 3: Academy and Canberra and you've got this rock star literally

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Speaker 3: up the front singing myster Fi on an acoustic guitar,

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Speaker 3: like there's no there is no competing against that, and

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Speaker 3: every man and woman in the room either wanted to

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Speaker 3: be him or be with him, probably a combination of

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Speaker 3: the two.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's a good idea to bring

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Speaker 1: in people that are way better. They're and smarter and

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Speaker 1: more talented than you.

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Speaker 3: Mate, I've learned that, Harps the last and you've done

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Speaker 3: this beautifully. Mate. You are the massive underselling. You are

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Speaker 3: much more than the fat kid from MOWI. You bring

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Speaker 3: all these people on the podcast. So that's one thing

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Speaker 3: I've learned Harps and Tiff is to be conscious of

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Speaker 3: what you're good at and then to bring other people

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Speaker 3: in and to have a collective sum that's much bigger

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Speaker 3: than you by yourself.

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Speaker 1: Taking a while to learn that, Harps. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you're always We spoke just an hour ago when

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Speaker 1: we're talking with Briann, and we spoke about the same

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Speaker 1: thing about you know, it sounds cheesy being the lifelong learner, right,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. It's like and all that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the world's my classroom, everyone's potential teacher. It sounds like bullshit,

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Speaker 1: but when you scrape the cheese off it, it's fucking true.

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Speaker 1: It's like I learn even when I am coaching someone

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Speaker 1: or I'm working with a group, and I'm the one

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Speaker 1: kind of commissioned. With the teaching role. I'm still learning

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Speaker 1: from them what not to do and how not to

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Speaker 1: be and occasionally being corrected on a point of fact,

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Speaker 1: you know where I go, Oh, I got that wrong,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I think if you can't genuinely be

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Speaker 1: okay with fucking up and getting stuff wrong, well, then

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Speaker 1: you're just operating an ego and then you're never going

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Speaker 1: to be a great teacher anyway.

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Speaker 3: I think if you get like that, you give up,

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Speaker 3: and if you're probably given a bit of leeway. I'm

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Speaker 3: not as a young boy or girl or whipper snipper,

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Speaker 3: we dance between that performance based identity. I perform, therefore

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Speaker 3: I am, and I recommend it up until forty x

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Speaker 3: ex exogenous external extrinsic. It was very much related to

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Speaker 3: faux po fear of other people's opinion that doctor Michael

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Speaker 3: Tavais talks about. And then you get to a couple

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Speaker 3: of life events or maybe you get your head out

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Speaker 3: of your proverbial or a bit of mentoring and do

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Speaker 3: a bit more research and study and realize, hey, performing

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Speaker 3: is good so I can have a strong personal identity

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Speaker 3: and capital And what's this all about? A purpose based identity,

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Speaker 3: and a purpose based identity is more around meaning and

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Speaker 3: that connection to why and why you're here on the planet.

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Speaker 3: So I've spent a lot of time perps thinking about

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Speaker 3: this myself the last five years, and I do a

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Speaker 3: lot of work around this with executives, getting that balance

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Speaker 3: right between the performer and you. And I spoke about

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Speaker 3: this in our last podcast, that balance between the performer

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Speaker 3: on the stage in the cauldron and the person and

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Speaker 3: getting vation between the two, but then really looking at Okay,

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Speaker 3: I can perform, but what's it all about? So back

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Speaker 3: to what you're saying, part of that balance. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: learned more from some of my exact clients made who

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Speaker 3: run banks or consulting firms. And I feel guilty sometimes

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Speaker 3: sending an invoice because I'm sending this invoice, it's studios

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Speaker 3: that I'm actually charging you, and as I'm going for

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Speaker 3: a coaching session or walking with you having a coffee,

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Speaker 3: you're filling up my cup and I think I should

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Speaker 3: be paying you. But if any of my coaching clients

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Speaker 3: listen to that, I'm not holding you to it. We

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Speaker 3: like the invoices to be paid harps, but I like

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Speaker 3: acknowledging that you're so true lifelong learner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, And I told you yesterday. I've been

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Speaker 1: doing a little bit of work with Victoria Police, who

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Speaker 1: are great, and about a month ago I did my

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Speaker 1: first session with them, and it was a day. It

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Speaker 1: was a whole day, and there was a little bit

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Speaker 1: of legs crossed and arms crossed and mind's crossed at

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Speaker 1: the start as well. And it wasn't that they weren't open,

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Speaker 1: it was just that they didn't know me. Some of

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Speaker 1: them knew me but or knew of me, but most didn't.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's really interesting because you go in with

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Speaker 1: an idea of what you're going to do, what you're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about. You know, with me, it's a

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Speaker 1: vague structure. I'm not as structured and as methodical and

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Speaker 1: as organized as you are. I don't think made. I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit more like you know, golden retriever sixty

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Speaker 1: year old golden retriever around food. That's a bit me.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting because I felt a shift about might

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Speaker 1: at know, we started at nine, maybe quught it at nine.

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Speaker 1: By about eleven, there was a real shift of energy

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Speaker 1: in the room and everyone was on board and all

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Speaker 1: the arms and the legs were uncrossing, and it's like

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Speaker 1: it just takes a while to build that trust and

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Speaker 1: respect and rapport, and you know, sometimes you don't. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you don't get there. But it's that knowing, knowing what

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Speaker 1: to share and what not to share, and which doors

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Speaker 1: to open and not and what questions to ask or

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Speaker 1: not to ask. And I got to about midday and

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Speaker 1: I hadn't sworn, which is like, really, I know, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's like not breathing. Way I nearly said the F

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Speaker 1: word and I said sorry, I nearly dropped the F bomb.

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Speaker 1: And I said, by the way, you do not know

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Speaker 1: how amazingly restrained I've been today. I go I normally

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Speaker 1: swear a lot, and they're like, oh, we'll feel free.

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Speaker 1: I go really, and the boss goes, fuck yeah. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: all right, all right, let him go to let him go. Hey.

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Speaker 3: Two things on that. One is I'm less planned than

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Speaker 3: I used to. I like the oxymoron planned spontaneity. So

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Speaker 3: I'll go into a workshop, I'll go into doing work

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Speaker 3: with athletes or a sporting team. I'll have a structure.

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Speaker 3: And then the spontaneity part is you adapt because you

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Speaker 3: can say, right, I've got it mapped out from part

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Speaker 3: one to ten and they're not ready for six or

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Speaker 3: they need to jump to part eight from three. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's the model, is planned spontaneity.

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Speaker 1: Two.

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Speaker 3: A question for both of you will flip it around.

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Speaker 3: The confidence of a psychological constructor is two components. It's

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Speaker 3: one doing the work and two it's backing yourself. So

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Speaker 3: I'd say, the reason why you can go into a

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Speaker 3: room and have a sheet of paper and a whole

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Speaker 3: bit of stories and ideas and am I going to

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Speaker 3: drop the F bomb or not is because you've got

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Speaker 3: confidence and you built that over years.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: A more detailed definition of confidence is you've got the

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Speaker 3: internal resources to match your external demands, and you've trained

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Speaker 3: that in multiple ways. And I heard the beautiful podcast

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Speaker 3: you did about mentor mentee, but you even flipped it

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Speaker 3: and said you're learning as much from Tiff as she

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Speaker 3: used from you. So the question I've got for both

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Speaker 3: of you, do you still when you go to a

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Speaker 3: room like you're going into police do you have that

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Speaker 3: imposter syndrome?

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Speaker 1: Harps? Yeah, the volume goes up and down. I think

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Speaker 1: for me, it's like people think I'm very confident and

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Speaker 1: I am sometimes and sometimes not, I will. So part

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Speaker 1: of my PhD is doing basically these reviews where you

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Speaker 1: stand in front of an academic board and they're called

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Speaker 1: academic milestones. And my last one was a few months ago,

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Speaker 1: where I had to go and stand in front of

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Speaker 1: a board and present my research and findings and methodology

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Speaker 1: and basically justify your place in the program. Right, Mazie,

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Speaker 1: I am so fucking out of my comfort zone because

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Speaker 1: they don't. Firstly, not that they should. They don't give

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Speaker 1: a fuck about me any more than any other student,

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Speaker 1: and neither should they. But you know, I'm used to

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Speaker 1: going into a space where I'm the guy up the front,

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Speaker 1: teaching and talking and getting paid well. Right, So with

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Speaker 1: that comes I guess a sense of whatever. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: done this a lot, I'm back here. I'm doing it again.

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Speaker 1: I'm not terrible at it. That's why they bring me back.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. But people say to me, have said

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Speaker 1: to me many times, oh, you'll kill that, like the

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Speaker 1: academic review. No, it's like standing naked in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of judges who do not know you all. You are

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Speaker 1: a student number three, five, one, two, six or whatever

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Speaker 1: I am, and You're being entirely judged on your academic output,

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Speaker 1: and so all my bullshit isn't worth anything. All my charisma,

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Speaker 1: my stories, my skills, my it doesn't count at all.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it probably works against you if you pull

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Speaker 3: out the jazz hands and the charisma and your flexic Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's the stuff.

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Speaker 1: That he might fucking go to the jazz hand.

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Speaker 3: Joe's head has been tapped down, like, oh, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Compostly make the most terrifying hour of my last year.

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Speaker 1: And also my dad had a heart attack in the

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Speaker 1: last year, but this was still more terrifying? Was that hour?

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Speaker 1: My final review? I'm like, I was so fucking scared

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Speaker 1: and so bad, so bad.

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Speaker 3: If we get a bit meta on that, get above it.

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Speaker 3: How awesome is it that at your youthful stage in

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Speaker 3: your career and you've been doing this for a long time,

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Speaker 3: And for context I went to you. We mentioned this

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Speaker 3: in one of our previous podcasts. I was twenty one,

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Speaker 3: had a full head of hair half the way I

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Speaker 3: am now, had a gold hoop hearing it's a good look.

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Speaker 4: Tiff, only I'll require a photo.

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Speaker 3: I'll send one through and like the ladies were really

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Speaker 3: like wanting to come and meet me. They just they

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Speaker 3: were too shy to let me know. But I remember

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Speaker 3: speaking to you way back then, Harps, and you were

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Speaker 3: giving and you're still learning, and what are we talking

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Speaker 3: twenty five years later? So I love hearing that you

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Speaker 3: are putting yourself in a position only foreignty where you

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Speaker 3: scare the shit out of here.

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Speaker 1: The growth of.

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Speaker 3: Learning you get from that is so much better than

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Speaker 3: sticking in the comfort lane up the front and your

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Speaker 3: pants and your bare feet and your sheet, doing what

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Speaker 3: you've done all the.

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Speaker 1: Time, one hundred percent. And I think, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of cliches that when you get past,

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Speaker 1: like I said before, or the cheesiness of them, they're true.

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Speaker 1: And I've said this to Tiff many times. I go,

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Speaker 1: when you're the smartest in the room, get out of

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Speaker 1: the room, go to another room, And the moment that

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Speaker 1: I think I'm getting pretty good, generally, problems happen. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like I know what I'm not bad at. I

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Speaker 1: also know what I don't know, and there's so much

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Speaker 1: more that I don't know. There's so many skills that

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Speaker 1: I don't have. There's so much understanding that I don't have.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying this to sound noble and fucking humble,

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Speaker 1: It's just true. So like everyone, you optimize your strengths

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Speaker 1: as much as you can while not pretending that you

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Speaker 1: don't have weaknesses. And I think, you know, when we

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Speaker 1: think about I'm diverging a little bit. But when we

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Speaker 1: think about health, we think about longevity, we think about wellness,

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Speaker 1: cognitive function, physiological function. I'm sure that and I'm not

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Speaker 1: genetically gifted, but I'm sure that I'm in pretty good

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Speaker 1: shape just because I keep getting uncomfortable, you know, just

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Speaker 1: because I keep doing shit that I'm not good at

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Speaker 1: and I eventually get good at it. But I've been

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Speaker 1: doing that since I was you know, fourteen is just

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Speaker 1: starting things that when I start, I'm a white belt,

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Speaker 1: and it's like I've never started anything that I was

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Speaker 1: automatically good at.

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Speaker 3: Ever, you know, when I grew up and when i'm

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Speaker 3: your age, I hope I had the same level of curiosity. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's like I think for me, like

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Speaker 3: just like lifting weights keeps your body young, and but

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Speaker 3: it literally does from a functional perspective. Obviously, chronology is

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Speaker 3: another thing, but physiology is manipulatable, the way we age,

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Speaker 3: we can we can influence largely now, but also the

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Speaker 3: way that our brain ages, the way that our brain works,

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Speaker 3: the way that our brain you know, builds muscle in

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Speaker 3: inverted commas or wastes. You know, all of this stuff

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Speaker 3: is to a point within our control. And you know

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Speaker 3: it's just and it's cliche, but it also is just

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Speaker 3: a matter of doing the work like which isn't.

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Speaker 1: Sexy, fun quick reps and sets.

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Speaker 3: We talk about it background both as a strength and

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Speaker 3: conditioning coach. Do you want to get strong, powerful, fit

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Speaker 3: and fast, you go to the gym, you go the pool,

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Speaker 3: the track, the VELODROMEI you do the reps and sets.

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Speaker 3: If you want to be strong mentally, emotionally, cognitively, you've

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Speaker 3: also got to do the reps and sets. A native

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Speaker 3: imposter syndrome, Do you get it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, before you know, five or

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Speaker 2: six years ago, or whenever I started my Harps stalking

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Speaker 2: mentor stalking journey, it was actually the moment there was

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Speaker 2: a conversation or something where Harps talked about imposter syndrome

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Speaker 2: and talked about that idea that he still he still

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Speaker 2: had that experience yet the dial turns up and down.

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Speaker 2: That was a moment for me where I went, oh,

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Speaker 2: if Craig Harper gets imposter syndrome, I better get off

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Speaker 2: my ass and get busy. That was a big moment

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Speaker 2: for me. And I think another thing is I see

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Speaker 2: myself play small around people. So in some spaces I

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Speaker 2: can self promote and feel confident and go and know

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Speaker 2: have real confidence in what I'm all about. And then

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Speaker 2: and it's been a grapple sometimes working alongside Harps and

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Speaker 2: with Harps in that respect, because I had I started

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Speaker 2: off as that he's the mentor, he's the guru, He's

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Speaker 2: the guy that I want to be aligned with. And

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Speaker 2: then when I was lucky enough to be aligned with him,

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Speaker 2: I was really you know, I'd feel myself play small

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Speaker 2: and maybe as a sign of respect or intimidation at times.

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Speaker 4: So that's been something to grapple with too.

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Speaker 3: I can know you're much better, Harps. And I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: of my situation. My tiff is ang And when Anne

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Speaker 3: started we're at KPMG. I went in there as a

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Speaker 3: lateral higher partner, which means alien they bought my business.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea about risk compliance, stakeholder engagement swore

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Speaker 3: way too much and I was so green, so they

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Speaker 3: gave Ange to me. We're so different, but we're so balanced.

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Speaker 3: She is so much of an asset for me, and

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Speaker 3: Ange will say I'm an asset for her. So it's

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Speaker 3: really shifted and I now see the relationship as not

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Speaker 3: on a boss and she follows. We dance between followership

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Speaker 3: and leadership. That's really nice when a relationship evolved. So

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Speaker 3: you've got your organization chart, then you've got your skill domain.

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Speaker 3: So I like to think with my team and the

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Speaker 3: teams I work with. You you have a different title,

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Speaker 3: but you get that blend between Hey, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: follow and and really look to what you do, and

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Speaker 3: then other times I'm going to lead. I think that's

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Speaker 3: a big learning from defense. They talk about followership is

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Speaker 3: a skill as well as leading.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know when you're interviewing a podcaster, because

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he fucking starts interviewing us, like,

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Speaker 1: what's happened, what's happened?

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Speaker 4: Very smooth, what'smooth?

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Speaker 1: What's going on? And how good is his voice? I

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Speaker 1: could just go to sleep with It's super sexy. I

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Speaker 1: could go to sleep with him just talking in my ear.

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Speaker 4: Should records some meditations for insight time.

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Speaker 3: Andrew, we're doing some I'm doing some meditations for my

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Speaker 3: Manly Boys. I work with a man mighty Manly Seagles,

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Speaker 3: and we're getting into mind from as heaps, Tiff and harp.

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Speaker 3: So we have Yeah, we've got We've got ten minute

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Speaker 3: tracks because the research shows the med minimum effective dose

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Speaker 3: for mindfulness is about six minutes. Ten minutes is better.

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Speaker 3: Twenty seven to twenty eight is awesome, but I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to get any athlete to do twenty seven to

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Speaker 3: twenty eight. So there We've got a bunch of mindfulness

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Speaker 3: tracks that we do. In fact, Harps, you love this.

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Speaker 3: We're starting now the week and it varies because the

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Speaker 3: Boys will play anywhere from Thursday nights through until Monday

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Speaker 3: if it's a public holiday, normally Thursday to Sunday, so

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Speaker 3: the start of the week could be Sunday, it could

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Speaker 3: be Tuesday or Wednesday. But the first I'm so proud

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Speaker 3: of this. The first fifteen minutes of the week is

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Speaker 3: Manly Mindfulness, where we spend fifteen minutes get the boys.

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Speaker 3: They sit up close the eye, so you're shutting off

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Speaker 3: the irs connected to the brain. And processing information, so

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Speaker 3: we give them a little bit of info, Harps, not

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Speaker 3: too much. The first couple of minutes is just compartmentalizing

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Speaker 3: what happened last week. Just put it in a lunch box,

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Speaker 3: wipe the board clean. Then we get into a bit

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Speaker 3: of breathing to change state. Then we do some gratitude

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Speaker 3: what are you grateful for? And then part three is

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Speaker 3: then really narrow the focus. This week we're playing this team.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing?

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Speaker 3: And in fifteen minutes and what I laugh is I've

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Speaker 3: had boys tiff sort of digressing, but it's connected to

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Speaker 3: your question. The boys said, hey, can you record something?

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Speaker 3: So we have.

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Speaker 1: I'm just delighted, Harps.

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Speaker 3: So I've got big footballers up to one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty five kilo saying can you give me an audio

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Speaker 3: track that I can play at home so I can

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Speaker 3: be chilled with my missus and my kids.

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Speaker 1: Mate, you genuinely have a great voice for it. I

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Speaker 1: fucking hate my voice, so I'd rather listen to you

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Speaker 1: than me. And that's not me trying to make you

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Speaker 1: feel good. You have a great voice for it, and I.

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Speaker 3: Think what's interesting everyone thinks. So I listened to your

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Speaker 3: podcast and go Yeah, he's got a really good resonance

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Speaker 3: and I love the dance between you two as well.

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Speaker 1: It's the contrast.

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Speaker 3: But I had voice lessons a number of years ago

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Speaker 3: when I was in Hobart, because when I was doing

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Speaker 3: half day workshops, it started with a Keino then half

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Speaker 3: day workshops, did a few full day and my voices

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Speaker 3: you know, you get that raspy voice. Yeah, both had

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Speaker 3: a lot of your audience speak a lot they've had it.

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Speaker 3: So I went to Lorraine Merit from Neither originally from

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Speaker 3: lon cesstin Tasmania. I can't say Lorraine without talking like that.

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Speaker 3: And she got me to do some wonderful voice exercises

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Speaker 3: and I still do them. I do them before I speak.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I do have a podcast Harps and I

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Speaker 3: interviewed small Thing Kiir and Gribbin from in Excess. I

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Speaker 3: mentioned him before and I was asking him about what

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Speaker 3: does he do as a performer going through voice exercises,

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Speaker 3: and it's similar to the stuff I've learned from the rain.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, her name was popped up twice today. Well,

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Speaker 3: there is a person on this call at the moment

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Speaker 3: who also is from Tasmania, a lon Cestern specific Sorry, sorry, jeez.

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Speaker 1: At least from Hobart the nemesis nemosis. Hey, I just

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Speaker 1: want to step back one bit that I didn't get

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Speaker 1: a chance because you two fucking talk too much. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about impost syndrome a little bit, just

430
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: to say that I think one of the mistakes that

431
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: we make is that we try to defeat imposter syndrome,

432
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: defeat insecurity, defeat self doubt. It's like, no, dude, no,

433
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: You're just going to coexist with it. It like it's

434
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: for me it, you know, Like I said, the volume

435
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: goes up and down. Sometimes I think I'm all right.

436
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think I'm doing terrible. Sometimes I'm intimidated. People

437
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: would think I would never get intimidated, not in a

438
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: physical fear sense, but in a like I interviewed a

439
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 1: guy this morning who's the world authority on forgiveness, and

440
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: he's written a bunch of how.

441
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 3: Many times you just apologize?

442
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: But he was like, really brilliant, you know, And I

443
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: know that I'm okay at interviewing. I know, I know.

444
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: Can I just pause, Tiff, well done?

445
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 3: He didn't acknowledge that that was a good He just

446
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: he just rolled over, what did.

447
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 4: You say, did you ask for some forgiveness?

448
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 3: Oh?

449
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to seek forgiveness. This is your podcast.

450
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: Sorry anyway, all good. All I was going to say is,

451
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: even this morning, I was feeling somewhat insecure because I'm thinking, Fuck,

452
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, like this guy is the guy in

453
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: the world on this topic. And I hope my questions

454
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: I always not always. I periodically worry when someone's been

455
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: interviewed hundreds of times and they're in a very specific

456
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: field that I'm going to ask them questions that they're like,

457
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: fuck this question again. You know they're going to roll

458
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: their eyes. Oh that old press play press play. Yeah,

459
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: So I try. I try to avoid that.

460
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you closing up on the

461
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. I like that dial it up and down

462
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: because I talk about the extremes of imposter syndrome. If

463
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 3: you don't have it, you are a narcissistic asshole and

464
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 3: around like if you just rock into everything and you

465
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: think you're a leegiand other people do not have the

466
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: same shared experience. And I believe you've done a PhD

467
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 3: in that if you have too much imposter syndrome, it

468
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: cripples you. So it's a bit like golded locks in

469
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: the three. You know, this porridge is just right. I

470
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 3: had a big dose of imposter syndrome earlier this week,

471
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: and I love that I did because it means I'm

472
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 3: challenging myself. Imposter syndrome means your care. The impost syndrome

473
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: means what you're doing is important to you. So the

474
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 3: interview you had earlier today, you care about that a

475
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 3: lot more than some blake with a shiny head.

476
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: Oh, I care mate, I want to impre. I did

477
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: a gig last week for Fernwood, God Bless Fernwood, and

478
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: I went in there and I was spoken with Furwood

479
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: a bunch. They like me. I like them. We have

480
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: a good time. Went to Queensland six months ago, spoke

481
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: at their national conference, and then I spoke down here

482
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: last week and I went in pretty confident I'm going

483
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: to go about a nine. I was about a nine.

484
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: And then I walked in and Donna Aston was speaking,

485
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: and Donna Aston was fucking crushing and I'm like, and

486
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: they loved her like that she had them. She had

487
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty women in the palm of

488
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: her hand, and she could have taken a dump on stage,

489
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: she would have got a fucking round of applause, like

490
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: they loved her right, and she was brilliant, And as

491
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: I was sitting in the middle of her brilliance, my

492
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: confidence just started to die and I'm like, oh fuck,

493
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to follow her. She's us. So by

494
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: the time I got up there, I was about a

495
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: rock solid four. I had to work my way into it.

496
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: That's probably about that's that self regulation mechanisms, Yeah, closing

497
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: it out. I now regularly want the bean situations where

498
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 3: I have imposter syndrome and if you're not, you're probably

499
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: not stretching. So so earlier in the week I went

500
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: in and Joe Schmid invited me into the Wallabies camp.

501
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 3: So the Wallabies play a time of recording. They play

502
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: Wales tomorrow, so there's a new coach, three new assistant coaches,

503
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: new how to performance, new physio. Out of the players

504
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 3: that went to the Debarkle under Eddie Jones Well Cup

505
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: last year, there's only twelve players in this squad out

506
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: of thirty eight, so it's a whole new rasion. So

507
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 3: they're all nervous. Joe's asked me to come in for

508
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 3: two days, which was awesome. I was so nervous. In fact,

509
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: that morning I got there early and I went to

510
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 3: a coffee shop and I just sat out and had

511
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: a coffee. But I've done a bit of work with

512
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: some of the war retars boys, so I know a

513
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 3: few of them. But I was really nervous, and I

514
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: actually was sitting in there, going, this is good, This.

515
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Means I care.

516
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 3: Dial it back a bit, cham because I don't want

517
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: to go in there because if you're too nervous, you're

518
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: going to say something stupid and be a bit of

519
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: a dick.

520
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: So just getting the.

521
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: Filter right and knowing that that awareness that this means

522
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: I care, but then down regulate, relax a little bit,

523
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: go back to you. I've done stuff like this before.

524
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 3: It's not you. I'm not being judged, and get that

525
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 3: nice filter.

526
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: You're definitely being judged, but that's okay. You always are.

527
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: Everyone's always watching. Hey, what's the convergence and divergence of

528
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: working with athletes versus corporates? So what's what's resonant, what's

529
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: relevant and what's irrelevant or what's the same and what's different.

530
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: What's irrelevant is when you stand up and go hey,

531
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 3: I work with insert sport, and this is the way

532
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: you kick the winning goal in the AFL Grand Final.

533
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: This is the way you whip it out the back

534
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: line with speed and get your wing or outside back

535
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: to score a try. This is the way you're dominating

536
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: a fight. And the upper cut that sitting there going

537
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 3: you're a wanker, mate, and you've got no idea about

538
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 3: how to run a bank or a FMC or a

539
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: transport company. I'm really really conscious probably over to it

540
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: sometimes of some of these stories I'm going to tell

541
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: you relate to sport, and then there's storytelling when you're

542
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: doing a conference or a podcast. Yes, but I'm really

543
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 3: clear as well that it's not exactly the same. What's

544
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: also really different. Sport's easy from a recovery and loading

545
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: point of view, because with our athletes in season AFL, NRL,

546
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 3: Super Rugby Netball, they have a defined competition, so they

547
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: know when they're playing, when they're recovering, and it's this

548
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: beautiful oscillation between stress and recovery. Yeah, you've got crowd media,

549
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: sponsorships and there's all these other complexities, but in many

550
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: ways it's much more simple. Whereas you're the see of

551
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: a bank or you're the ceover Telco.

552
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: You don't have this.

553
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: Beautiful oscillation between stress and recovery. You might have a

554
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: board member who comes out they've had an or something,

555
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: sleats at an off site, and you're about to go

556
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: to Hawaii. You get a phone call and you have

557
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: to stay home, so you're always on. So there's a

558
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: huge contrast in that as well. What I like though,

559
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: is and I'm sure you did this, Whereas for years

560
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: it was me from sport into corporate and then I

561
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: just went corporate. Now I've actually used corporate to go

562
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: back to sport. I'm working across a number of different

563
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: teams in different sports doing mental skills and leadership. A

564
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: number of years ago, it would have been you just

565
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: do one team and you go and go deep. But

566
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: because I've learned how to scale through technology and have

567
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: a podcast and you take snippets out of that and

568
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: have a digital platform, and I've learned that, Like we

569
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: were talking at the start today, when I run a

570
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: mental skills program, so it mainly I say it's our program,

571
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: so it's as much Anthony c. Buld, the head coach JC,

572
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 3: had a performance and bails ahead physio and especially with JC.

573
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 3: He's driving more of the program than I am, Harps,

574
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: So that's been a huge learning that I've adapted from.

575
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: I went to KPMG with no idea about how to

576
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: scale a business because I thought it was me up

577
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: until there. And I had a great coach when I

578
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: went to KPMG. And I didn't realize this, but I

579
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: probably came across as a bit of a selfish asshole.

580
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: And I don't think I am by trait. It just said,

581
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: I've been so used to doing my own thing, and

582
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: then when you go into a consulting firm and there's

583
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: six hundred other partners. The analogy she gave me is, Andrew,

584
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: you've been in a fighter pilot where you've been a

585
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: fighter pilot in your jet and you land and everything's

586
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: about you.

587
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: You're now the co.

588
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: Pilot of an A three eighty with six hundred and

589
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: ninety nine other people and you've got.

590
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: To share the cockpit. Beautiful analogy. I love that.

591
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: But now, Harps, I think I'm in this beautiful place

592
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: at fifty where I feel like I'm just starting and

593
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: I freaking love working across different sports, and I love

594
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: working across corporate and defense and I see it's this

595
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: nice merging of both and you can dial it up

596
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: and dial it back, and then I feel, yeah, I

597
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: feel like. There's a great book called Range by David Epstein,

598
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: and I'm sure you've read it, heard about it, heard

599
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: people talk about it, and it's the collective sum of

600
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: experiences we have has got us to exactly where we

601
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: need to be right now. I reckon it's taken me

602
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: twenty five years to become an overnight success, and a

603
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: whole bunch of experiences, trials, tribulation, success, fuck ups and everything.

604
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: I want way to be in a spot where I'm

605
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: comfortable to do that. Do you talk to.

606
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Groups and individuals about self awareness, other awareness, social awareness?

607
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: If you do, what do you talk to them about?

608
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: And how do you open that door? Yeah?

609
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 3: George Angel back in nineteen seventy seven spoke about the

610
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: biopsychosocial model. I think sometimes we come up with stuff

611
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: and do things and think, hey, I'm onto something here,

612
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: and then you out this theory and I go, geez,

613
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 3: someone else has thought about this. So if there's a

614
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: model I give you, it is that I think it's

615
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: the whole human So bio is your physiology and US

616
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: human and operating system. Psycho is thoughts and feelings and

617
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 3: emotional and we've got to regularly do an iOS upgrade

618
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: on our head, just like we need to do on

619
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: our iPhones. And then that social is no man, No

620
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: woman is an island. So you look at relationships social,

621
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: you also look at cultural that's massive. I find in sports,

622
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: especially a lot of the Contact Sports Union and league

623
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: high in Pacific notions like I could have the best

624
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: toolkit in the world around psychology. And this is the

625
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: mistake I think a lot of psychs make, or previously

626
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: made when they're running corpor or sports programs. Hey I'm

627
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: a psych and it's about schema, and I've got all

628
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: these tools head down.

629
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: But I know a lot of.

630
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: Players have more of a physical intelligence, so it's legs

631
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: up or toes up, and then some are right in

632
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 3: the middle. So answering your question of a long way,

633
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: awareness is everything self awareness. And I've been deep on

634
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 3: mindfulness the past twelve months. And if apparently mindfulness has

635
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: been around a while, it's not new. Two and a

636
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: half thousand years ago, the Japanese samurai were practicing mindfulness.

637
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: You look at different cultures like the Yogis in India.

638
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: We're doing a very similar time. And while you've got

639
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: different cults, there's totally different parts.

640
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: Of the world.

641
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: They didn't have a mobile phone, there was no Snapchat

642
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: or Twitter or whatever it's called these days to share

643
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: information that's fascinating and Buddhism and the evolution of that

644
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: as well. So there's multiple tribes and cultures that you know,

645
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Speaker 3: a couple of thousand years ago were looking at this

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Speaker 3: notion of being still and being present and haaps men, women, athletes,

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Speaker 3: corporate athletes, everyone in between.

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Speaker 1: I'm really bringing.

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Speaker 3: A lot more around that mindfulness and that ability to

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Speaker 3: be present in the moment without judgment.

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Speaker 1: Good a team. I'm going to interrupt myself and Tiff

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Speaker 1: and Andrew there. This went for quite a while less

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Speaker 1: chat an hour and a half or so, so we're

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Speaker 1: going to break there. We'll call that the end of

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Speaker 1: part one, and we'll see you tomorrow