WEBVTT - Does everyone hate the hate speech laws?

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christinamiot.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, January sixteenth, twenty twenty six. A new twist

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<v Speaker 1>in the Adelaide Writers Week saga Anti Israel author Randa

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<v Speaker 1>Abdelphatar has been invited back and a new board has

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<v Speaker 1>issued a groveling apology for dumping her from the lineup.

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<v Speaker 1>The festival's former board disinvited Abdelphatar from it's now canceled

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six event, citing cultural sensitivities following the bond

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<v Speaker 1>Eyed terror attack, prompting a mass boycott. Now a new

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<v Speaker 1>board has reinstated the author for the twenty twenty seven

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<v Speaker 1>festival and apologized unreservedly for the decision. That story is

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<v Speaker 1>live right now at the Australian dot com dot au unsalvageable,

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<v Speaker 1>rushed too far, not far enough. Everyone's got some thing

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<v Speaker 1>to say about a bill designed to curb anti Semitism

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<v Speaker 1>and prevent another tragedy like the Bondai massacre. It'll be

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<v Speaker 1>debated in the Federal Parliament next week, but the government

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<v Speaker 1>is alleging hypocrisy and MPs say they were blindsided as

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<v Speaker 1>the Coalition and Greens pull their support for the reforms.

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<v Speaker 1>That's today's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>The bill is a combating anti Semitism, hate an extremism bill,

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<v Speaker 2>but from.

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<v Speaker 3>What we have seen so far, it looks pretty unissavage.

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<v Speaker 4>The Council of Australian Jury would urge the Coalition not

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<v Speaker 4>to allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good.

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't you deal with your problem, mate, is fundamentalist

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<v Speaker 2>Islam from the western suburbs of Sydney.

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<v Speaker 3>This bill needed much more than the very short, sharp,

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<v Speaker 3>perfunctory review that's been undertaken over the last forty eight hours.

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<v Speaker 2>So these are complex laws and our focus is ensuring

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<v Speaker 2>their effective and practical.

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<v Speaker 1>The government's new hate speech laws were supposed to curb

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<v Speaker 1>anti semitism and extremism. In the wake of the Heineker

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<v Speaker 1>terror attack at Bondai Beach.

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<v Speaker 5>As the sun was setting on Sunday, two gunmen, a

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<v Speaker 5>father and son, open fire as families gathered to celebrate

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<v Speaker 5>the Jewish Festival of Lights. Fifteen innocent lives were taken

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<v Speaker 5>and more than forty people were injured.

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<v Speaker 1>Opposition leader Susan Lee has her own ideas.

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<v Speaker 3>These changes to legislation will tackle antisemitism head on in education,

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<v Speaker 3>the arts and society more broadly and critically enshrine a

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<v Speaker 3>definition of antisemitism in law.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a move that took the Prime Minister by surprise,

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<v Speaker 1>and I.

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<v Speaker 6>Find it absolutely astonishing that they are continuing to play politics.

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<v Speaker 6>If they have amendments, by all means, put them forward,

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<v Speaker 6>pick up the phone, engage constructively and we will engage

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<v Speaker 6>because this needs to be a moment that is above

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<v Speaker 6>party politics.

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<v Speaker 1>And it blindsided some of the opposition leader's own team.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, her comments had a very mixed response. I actually

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<v Speaker 7>heard from nearly a dozen coalition MP's and senators pretty

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<v Speaker 7>alarmed actually with some of the language.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Eisen is a senior political reporter with The Australian.

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<v Speaker 7>They were listening very closely when she said that next

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<v Speaker 7>week the opposition will Now this is will, not is considering,

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<v Speaker 7>this is time frame. This is her saying the way forward.

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<v Speaker 7>And that's what a heap of people called me about,

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<v Speaker 7>saying she is absolutely going off on her own house.

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<v Speaker 7>This has got no tick off. No one is expecting

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<v Speaker 7>us to pass our own legislation next week. And then

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<v Speaker 7>a bit of clarification I guess from the Leader's office

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<v Speaker 7>that she was saying they're going to progress their package,

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<v Speaker 7>and by that she just sort of means argue for it,

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<v Speaker 7>and then sometime in the future they'll try to pass

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<v Speaker 7>maybe some private members bills that go to very specific things.

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<v Speaker 7>But a lot of this got lost, and unfortunately, at

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<v Speaker 7>an already very message time and fractious time within the coalition,

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<v Speaker 7>it only added to that internal debate, division and frustration

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<v Speaker 7>which we've really seen in the last week or so.

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<v Speaker 1>The government's proposed in Omnibus All Encompassing Bill, Part one

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<v Speaker 1>is working with the States on gun reform, import controls,

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<v Speaker 1>tighter rules to stop three D printing of gun parts,

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<v Speaker 1>end a buyback.

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<v Speaker 7>Now, the second piece of this omnibus bill, and arguably

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<v Speaker 7>the much more contentious part, is the hate speech legislation.

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<v Speaker 7>And that's because some of the thresholds around what you're

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<v Speaker 7>allowed to say when it comes to hate speech, whether

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<v Speaker 7>that's anti Semitic or so on, it's pretty high. It's

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<v Speaker 7>about inciting violence, So it's saying no, we're going to

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<v Speaker 7>lower that from the insarting of violence to this insarting

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<v Speaker 7>of hatred for the purpose of intimidation and harassment. It's

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<v Speaker 7>very much aimed at that anti Semitic problem. It also

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<v Speaker 7>talks about hate preachers very specifically, and of course banning

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<v Speaker 7>certain groups. This is after years of the Australian government

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<v Speaker 7>and governments of both side of politics trying to ban

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<v Speaker 7>his bacteria and the other problem which has been more

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<v Speaker 7>recent about the neo Nazis National Socialist Network. This creates

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<v Speaker 7>a sort of system where you can criminalize a group

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<v Speaker 7>that you've categorized as being banned, and if you're part

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<v Speaker 7>of it, if you fund it, if you're training with

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<v Speaker 7>it or whatever, you're facing not just financial penalties but

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<v Speaker 7>up to fifteen years of jail time. The bill does

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<v Speaker 7>a heap of stuff, but in this area of policy,

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<v Speaker 7>when it comes to constraining speech in any way, when

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<v Speaker 7>it comes to maybe constraining religion or religious text in

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<v Speaker 7>any way, it's very vexed. Both the left and the

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<v Speaker 7>right and the Greens and the Coalition is what I

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<v Speaker 7>mean by that, have a shopping list of concerns when

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<v Speaker 7>it comes to the legislation.

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<v Speaker 1>So what does Susan Lee say is the problem with

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<v Speaker 1>the bill as it currently stands.

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<v Speaker 7>So her concern and the concern of a lot of

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<v Speaker 7>her colleagues is this doesn't target what they call the

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<v Speaker 7>extreme Islamic movement. In their perfect world, it would be

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<v Speaker 7>really targeted on this one cohort of society. And they're

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<v Speaker 7>very worried as well about an exemption in the bill

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<v Speaker 7>that goes to the religious texts. Essentially, in this bill

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<v Speaker 7>it says you can quote a religious text or even

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<v Speaker 7>discuss it, and it has to be for the purpose

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<v Speaker 7>of religious teaching or discussion. They're also worried by things

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<v Speaker 7>like the fact that there's no definition of a religious

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<v Speaker 7>text that is up to the court to define that,

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<v Speaker 7>just like there's no ability to say definitively that under

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<v Speaker 7>this legislation from the river to the Sea or death

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<v Speaker 7>to the IDF that those phrases that we've heard chanted

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<v Speaker 7>at protests would be stopped from happening. And this lack

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<v Speaker 7>of clarity and definitiveness over all of this has got

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<v Speaker 7>the Caulution to this point where they're saying that the

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<v Speaker 7>bill doesn't really target anti Semitism and it's not cracking

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<v Speaker 7>down on Islamic extremism, and so really in its current form,

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<v Speaker 7>they are starting to harden their position against this particular

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<v Speaker 7>bill and all of those things with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Some Jewish groups have urged the Coalition not to oppose

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<v Speaker 1>the Government's Hate Speech Bill as it currently stands. They've

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledged there are some imperfections with that bill, including that

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<v Speaker 1>so called loophole that you mentioned earlier, but the head

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<v Speaker 1>of the Executive Council of Australian Jury has said that

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<v Speaker 1>the perfect cannot be the enemy of the good in

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<v Speaker 1>this situation. Other leaders have agreed with Susan Lee that

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<v Speaker 1>this legislation feels rushed, that it's happening too soon after Bondie.

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<v Speaker 1>How does Susan Lee reassure Jewish Australians and the wider

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish community that the Coalition supports them and can she

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<v Speaker 1>actually offer that reassurance when they're debating the intricacies of

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<v Speaker 1>a very complex bill.

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<v Speaker 7>So at about four pm on Thursday, we heard from

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<v Speaker 7>the Jewish Board of Deputies in New South Wales and

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<v Speaker 7>they were saying that yeah, they really want the Coalition

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<v Speaker 7>to be the one to do the deal with the government,

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<v Speaker 7>but they weren't having their language directed at the Coalition.

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<v Speaker 7>They were saying it's up to the government actually to

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<v Speaker 7>give way more time than it has and ensure that

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<v Speaker 7>they are doing the deal with the coalition. Rather than

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<v Speaker 7>the Greens. So yes, there is pressure on the Coalition

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<v Speaker 7>to come back to the table. But the longer this

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<v Speaker 7>goes on and the longer it becomes unclear of how

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<v Speaker 7>Labour's going to do this, the more pressure also builds

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<v Speaker 7>on the government from the Jewish community and otherwise.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up without the Coalition on side, where does the

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<v Speaker 1>government turn for support? On Thursday, the Greens also announced

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<v Speaker 1>they won't support the government's proposed hate speech laws in

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<v Speaker 1>their current form. Green Senator David Shubridge said the legislation

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<v Speaker 1>is too narrow in its scope and doesn't go far

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<v Speaker 1>enough to protect the LGBTQ community and people with disability.

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<v Speaker 4>The same hateful ideology that was directed against the Jewish

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<v Speaker 4>community at Bondai could have as easily been directed against

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<v Speaker 4>women in positions of power, or the LGBTIQ community and

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<v Speaker 4>those vulnerable parts of our community. They absolutely deserve equal

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<v Speaker 4>protections from this parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>The Greens have been the government's best hope of passing

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<v Speaker 1>the bill, So what now? Does the government have any

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<v Speaker 1>other options or is it back to the drawing board.

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<v Speaker 7>It's part of saying well, the and the Nationals don't

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<v Speaker 7>look like they're going to support you, So we pretty

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<v Speaker 7>much are going to ask for all of this, knowing

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<v Speaker 7>full well it would be incredible to get one hundred

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<v Speaker 7>percent of that. But by leveraging it so hard and

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<v Speaker 7>by asking for a hundred things, when you get maybe

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<v Speaker 7>the five things you really want, that's fantastic. And the

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<v Speaker 7>way you do that is with this kind of negotiating.

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<v Speaker 7>You know, I think a lot of Jewish groups would

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<v Speaker 7>really prefer this be done with the coalition, in part

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<v Speaker 7>because it would make it a bipartisan bill, but similarly

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<v Speaker 7>because there's been an adversarial nature to the relationship between

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<v Speaker 7>the Greens and the Jewish community. They don't like this

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<v Speaker 7>idea of the government saying, hey, just trust us, we'll

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<v Speaker 7>address your concerns after this, when right now is when

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<v Speaker 7>they've got a point of leverage. So they want to

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<v Speaker 7>see other forms of hate included in this bill rather

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<v Speaker 7>than the government promising to get to it later. They've

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<v Speaker 7>also raised concerns about this extension of powers given to

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<v Speaker 7>the Home Affairs Minister to counsel visas more easily or

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<v Speaker 7>refuse them. No surprise, they don't like the loring of

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<v Speaker 7>the threshold or any breach to what they see is

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<v Speaker 7>due process. The bill would have to be really radically redesigned,

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<v Speaker 7>it feels like, regardless of if it's a deal with

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<v Speaker 7>the coalition all the Greens Party, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 7>changes the government's looking at having to implement if it

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<v Speaker 7>has a chance of getting this done.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Eison is a senior political reporter with The Australian.

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<v Speaker 1>You can read all the latest about the government's proposed

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<v Speaker 1>hate speech legislation and all the nation's best news and

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<v Speaker 1>politics right now at the Australian dot com dot au