1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christinamiot. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: It's Friday, January sixteenth, twenty twenty six. A new twist 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: in the Adelaide Writers Week saga Anti Israel author Randa 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: Abdelphatar has been invited back and a new board has 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: issued a groveling apology for dumping her from the lineup. 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: The festival's former board disinvited Abdelphatar from it's now canceled 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six event, citing cultural sensitivities following the bond 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Eyed terror attack, prompting a mass boycott. Now a new 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: board has reinstated the author for the twenty twenty seven 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: festival and apologized unreservedly for the decision. That story is 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: live right now at the Australian dot com dot au unsalvageable, 12 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: rushed too far, not far enough. Everyone's got some thing 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: to say about a bill designed to curb anti Semitism 14 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: and prevent another tragedy like the Bondai massacre. It'll be 15 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: debated in the Federal Parliament next week, but the government 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: is alleging hypocrisy and MPs say they were blindsided as 17 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: the Coalition and Greens pull their support for the reforms. 18 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: That's today's episode. 19 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 2: The bill is a combating anti Semitism, hate an extremism bill, 20 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: but from. 21 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 3: What we have seen so far, it looks pretty unissavage. 22 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 4: The Council of Australian Jury would urge the Coalition not 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 4: to allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. 24 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: Why don't you deal with your problem, mate, is fundamentalist 25 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: Islam from the western suburbs of Sydney. 26 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: This bill needed much more than the very short, sharp, 27 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: perfunctory review that's been undertaken over the last forty eight hours. 28 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: So these are complex laws and our focus is ensuring 29 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: their effective and practical. 30 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: The government's new hate speech laws were supposed to curb 31 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 1: anti semitism and extremism. In the wake of the Heineker 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: terror attack at Bondai Beach. 33 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 5: As the sun was setting on Sunday, two gunmen, a 34 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 5: father and son, open fire as families gathered to celebrate 35 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 5: the Jewish Festival of Lights. Fifteen innocent lives were taken 36 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 5: and more than forty people were injured. 37 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: Opposition leader Susan Lee has her own ideas. 38 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 3: These changes to legislation will tackle antisemitism head on in education, 39 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: the arts and society more broadly and critically enshrine a 40 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 3: definition of antisemitism in law. 41 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: It's a move that took the Prime Minister by surprise, 42 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: and I. 43 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 6: Find it absolutely astonishing that they are continuing to play politics. 44 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 6: If they have amendments, by all means, put them forward, 45 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 6: pick up the phone, engage constructively and we will engage 46 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 6: because this needs to be a moment that is above 47 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 6: party politics. 48 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: And it blindsided some of the opposition leader's own team. 49 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 7: Well, her comments had a very mixed response. I actually 50 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 7: heard from nearly a dozen coalition MP's and senators pretty 51 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 7: alarmed actually with some of the language. 52 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: Sarah Eisen is a senior political reporter with The Australian. 53 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 7: They were listening very closely when she said that next 54 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 7: week the opposition will Now this is will, not is considering, 55 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 7: this is time frame. This is her saying the way forward. 56 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 7: And that's what a heap of people called me about, 57 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 7: saying she is absolutely going off on her own house. 58 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 7: This has got no tick off. No one is expecting 59 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 7: us to pass our own legislation next week. And then 60 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 7: a bit of clarification I guess from the Leader's office 61 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 7: that she was saying they're going to progress their package, 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 7: and by that she just sort of means argue for it, 63 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 7: and then sometime in the future they'll try to pass 64 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 7: maybe some private members bills that go to very specific things. 65 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 7: But a lot of this got lost, and unfortunately, at 66 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 7: an already very message time and fractious time within the coalition, 67 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 7: it only added to that internal debate, division and frustration 68 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 7: which we've really seen in the last week or so. 69 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: The government's proposed in Omnibus All Encompassing Bill, Part one 70 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: is working with the States on gun reform, import controls, 71 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: tighter rules to stop three D printing of gun parts, 72 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: end a buyback. 73 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 7: Now, the second piece of this omnibus bill, and arguably 74 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 7: the much more contentious part, is the hate speech legislation. 75 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 7: And that's because some of the thresholds around what you're 76 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 7: allowed to say when it comes to hate speech, whether 77 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 7: that's anti Semitic or so on, it's pretty high. It's 78 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 7: about inciting violence, So it's saying no, we're going to 79 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 7: lower that from the insarting of violence to this insarting 80 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 7: of hatred for the purpose of intimidation and harassment. It's 81 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 7: very much aimed at that anti Semitic problem. It also 82 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 7: talks about hate preachers very specifically, and of course banning 83 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 7: certain groups. This is after years of the Australian government 84 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 7: and governments of both side of politics trying to ban 85 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 7: his bacteria and the other problem which has been more 86 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 7: recent about the neo Nazis National Socialist Network. This creates 87 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 7: a sort of system where you can criminalize a group 88 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 7: that you've categorized as being banned, and if you're part 89 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 7: of it, if you fund it, if you're training with 90 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 7: it or whatever, you're facing not just financial penalties but 91 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 7: up to fifteen years of jail time. The bill does 92 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 7: a heap of stuff, but in this area of policy, 93 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 7: when it comes to constraining speech in any way, when 94 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 7: it comes to maybe constraining religion or religious text in 95 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 7: any way, it's very vexed. Both the left and the 96 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 7: right and the Greens and the Coalition is what I 97 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 7: mean by that, have a shopping list of concerns when 98 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 7: it comes to the legislation. 99 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: So what does Susan Lee say is the problem with 100 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: the bill as it currently stands. 101 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 7: So her concern and the concern of a lot of 102 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 7: her colleagues is this doesn't target what they call the 103 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 7: extreme Islamic movement. In their perfect world, it would be 104 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 7: really targeted on this one cohort of society. And they're 105 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 7: very worried as well about an exemption in the bill 106 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 7: that goes to the religious texts. Essentially, in this bill 107 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 7: it says you can quote a religious text or even 108 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 7: discuss it, and it has to be for the purpose 109 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 7: of religious teaching or discussion. They're also worried by things 110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 7: like the fact that there's no definition of a religious 111 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 7: text that is up to the court to define that, 112 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 7: just like there's no ability to say definitively that under 113 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 7: this legislation from the river to the Sea or death 114 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 7: to the IDF that those phrases that we've heard chanted 115 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 7: at protests would be stopped from happening. And this lack 116 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 7: of clarity and definitiveness over all of this has got 117 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 7: the Caulution to this point where they're saying that the 118 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 7: bill doesn't really target anti Semitism and it's not cracking 119 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 7: down on Islamic extremism, and so really in its current form, 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 7: they are starting to harden their position against this particular 121 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 7: bill and all of those things with it. 122 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: Some Jewish groups have urged the Coalition not to oppose 123 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the Government's Hate Speech Bill as it currently stands. They've 124 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: acknowledged there are some imperfections with that bill, including that 125 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: so called loophole that you mentioned earlier, but the head 126 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: of the Executive Council of Australian Jury has said that 127 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: the perfect cannot be the enemy of the good in 128 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: this situation. Other leaders have agreed with Susan Lee that 129 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: this legislation feels rushed, that it's happening too soon after Bondie. 130 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: How does Susan Lee reassure Jewish Australians and the wider 131 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: Jewish community that the Coalition supports them and can she 132 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: actually offer that reassurance when they're debating the intricacies of 133 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: a very complex bill. 134 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 7: So at about four pm on Thursday, we heard from 135 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 7: the Jewish Board of Deputies in New South Wales and 136 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 7: they were saying that yeah, they really want the Coalition 137 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 7: to be the one to do the deal with the government, 138 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 7: but they weren't having their language directed at the Coalition. 139 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 7: They were saying it's up to the government actually to 140 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 7: give way more time than it has and ensure that 141 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 7: they are doing the deal with the coalition. Rather than 142 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 7: the Greens. So yes, there is pressure on the Coalition 143 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 7: to come back to the table. But the longer this 144 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 7: goes on and the longer it becomes unclear of how 145 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 7: Labour's going to do this, the more pressure also builds 146 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 7: on the government from the Jewish community and otherwise. 147 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: Coming up without the Coalition on side, where does the 148 00:08:46,800 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: government turn for support? On Thursday, the Greens also announced 149 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: they won't support the government's proposed hate speech laws in 150 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: their current form. Green Senator David Shubridge said the legislation 151 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: is too narrow in its scope and doesn't go far 152 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: enough to protect the LGBTQ community and people with disability. 153 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 4: The same hateful ideology that was directed against the Jewish 154 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 4: community at Bondai could have as easily been directed against 155 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 4: women in positions of power, or the LGBTIQ community and 156 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 4: those vulnerable parts of our community. They absolutely deserve equal 157 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 4: protections from this parliament. 158 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: The Greens have been the government's best hope of passing 159 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: the bill, So what now? Does the government have any 160 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: other options or is it back to the drawing board. 161 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 7: It's part of saying well, the and the Nationals don't 162 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 7: look like they're going to support you, So we pretty 163 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 7: much are going to ask for all of this, knowing 164 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 7: full well it would be incredible to get one hundred 165 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 7: percent of that. But by leveraging it so hard and 166 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 7: by asking for a hundred things, when you get maybe 167 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 7: the five things you really want, that's fantastic. And the 168 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 7: way you do that is with this kind of negotiating. 169 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 7: You know, I think a lot of Jewish groups would 170 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 7: really prefer this be done with the coalition, in part 171 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 7: because it would make it a bipartisan bill, but similarly 172 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 7: because there's been an adversarial nature to the relationship between 173 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 7: the Greens and the Jewish community. They don't like this 174 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 7: idea of the government saying, hey, just trust us, we'll 175 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 7: address your concerns after this, when right now is when 176 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 7: they've got a point of leverage. So they want to 177 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 7: see other forms of hate included in this bill rather 178 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 7: than the government promising to get to it later. They've 179 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 7: also raised concerns about this extension of powers given to 180 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 7: the Home Affairs Minister to counsel visas more easily or 181 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 7: refuse them. No surprise, they don't like the loring of 182 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 7: the threshold or any breach to what they see is 183 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 7: due process. The bill would have to be really radically redesigned, 184 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 7: it feels like, regardless of if it's a deal with 185 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 7: the coalition all the Greens Party, there's a lot of 186 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 7: changes the government's looking at having to implement if it 187 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 7: has a chance of getting this done. 188 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: Sarah Eison is a senior political reporter with The Australian. 189 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: You can read all the latest about the government's proposed 190 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: hate speech legislation and all the nation's best news and 191 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: politics right now at the Australian dot com dot au