WEBVTT - Damian Drum - The Last One to Know 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.000 Whenever you're going to do something like this, you don't 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:11.399 want to bug it up. So if you're going to 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.320 sack a coach, you need to be very very clear 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.000 as to how you're doing. If you're gonna do this, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:23.960 you need to be one hundred you know. It has 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:25.720 to be done with integrity. It has to be done 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.720 with a lot of thoughtfulness, It has to be done 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:29.920 in a very careful way. It has to be done 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:31.880 with a sharp knife. You're gonna take your head off 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.800 sharp knife. So and they probably couldn't have watched it 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:39.560 if they had tried. 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:41.640 I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.920 Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.479 when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.200 you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:51.639 in football and find out how they found out their 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.440 time was up and who pulled the trigger. Sacked IFL 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.840 is made possible with the support of subscribers to. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:57.440 The Held Sun. 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.480 To find out more, go to Heldsun dot com or 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.520 download the Herald Sun app at your app store today. 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.200 The last one to know the second part of our 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.720 chat with Damian Drum. Damian Drum spent more time as 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.000 an AFL coach in waiting than he did in the 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.440 hot seat, given he was up for roles as the 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.200 coach of the Swans the Demons, and he almost had 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.240 the Collingwood job before moving to Fremantle in one of 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.679 the most notorious coach sackings in AFL history. Drum learned 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.240 of his sacking on live television just nine games into 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.840 his third season in the top job, and yet it 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.880 allowed the former Shed builder to embark on his most 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.520 consequential role yet two decades as a member of state 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:37.720 and federal Parliament. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.679 Rockett has a team meeting on a Monday, and he 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.600 takes them through the game and he says, right, right now, 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.800 it's over to Drumming to work out all your additional 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.520 training sessions and work out what you're doing. So I 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.840 get arena. So write our additional waits for Smith, Jones, Brown, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:59.840 Black and Smith. Again, we're doing extra, a little bit 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:05.280 of extra cardio for these five, these five players, visio 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.760 and doctors need to be in tomorrow. Locket and Kelly. 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.640 Right as soon as I say Lockett's name, his head 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.200 drops down, he drops his eyes straight down, his feet. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.560 I know Lockett's not going to turn up. So at 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.560 this stage he's got a dodgy knee and they're more 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.760 or less putting a needle in and sucking the extra 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.000 fluid out early in the week to enable that to 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.720 get better so he can play next week. And we 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.680 need him to turn up. And so I know he's 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.320 not going to turn up. So as all the players 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.400 are walking out, I'm at the exit. Players are walking 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.600 past me and Tony turns up. I said, Tony. He 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.600 doesn't look up. Tony doesn't look up as he walks 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.760 past me. I put my hand around his throat, just 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.240 stopping the very game. He says, take your hand off, mate, 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.120 I need you take your hand off. So I've got 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.640 to make a decision now in front of in front 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.239 of twenty and I'm blocking the doorways told me to 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.639 get tap my hand off. I decided to double down 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.640 and put a bit of a squeeze. Mate, mate, I 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.000 need you just tell me you're going to be next thing. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:22.800 His hand is around my throat and I've got this, 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.400 and then the strangle to well. Then I yes, he 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.040 was Tony Colors. But then I start to feel my 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.920 feet leave the ground. So he is simply sliding me 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:41.840 up against with my back. I say, mate, I tap out. 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:49.600 You win. Anyway, It's an interesting one because Tony then 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.880 doesn't talk to me for a month. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.520 Okay, goold, hold a grudge. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.920 And and just one that I got incredibly wrong, you know, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.200 thinking right, I've got to stop this. I can't let 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.360 him walk out. Let him walk out and just go 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:03.560 and have a chat with him. You know, I had 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.080 him a chance, had my time again. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.720 But so he didn't turn up the next thing. He 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:08.880 didn't turn up, didn't turn up for. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.000 The didn't turn up for the for the physio or 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.560 the doctors. And but as I say so, I'm talking 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.039 to him all the time. He's just ignoring me for 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.599 the next month. And then he breaks it. We break 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.480 it down and it's all good. Then my gay back 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.800 and talk to him, said so, mate, why why are 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.479 you so fierce about what should have been a bit 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:32.880 of a joke. And he goes, mate, no one touches me, 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.880 No one not an aggressive don't don't think he can 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.960 be aggressive physically with me. And you should have known 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:41.479 him better. I said, yeah, you're right, I should have 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.919 known him better. But I anyway, so you get a 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.600 few things wrong and that's my best one. I got 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:53.320 wrong with Plugger, but he was again he you know, 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.880 along with a few others, effectively save that club definitely 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.279 from where it was going and the path through to 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.359 where it went. And along with Barassi, and you know, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.920 the emergence of Paul Kelly can't be understated any of it. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.880 Like he's a young kid from Wagga, you know, four 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.640 five five six stone, ringing wet, but he could just 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.279 run and became the most inspirational captain that club could 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.920 ever have hoped for as a as a homegrown boy. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.320 He put Andrew Dunkley, who you know wasn't a great kick, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.440 but he became a seriously good full back. And so 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.599 we had some really really good players and Paul Ruse 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.680 comes in and all of a sudden we've got a 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.120 seriously good team. And because Barassi had also insisted that 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.880 we keep our draft picks and the AFL had given us, 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.039 the AFL had given us a very good suite of drafts. 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.159 By the way, too, we're able to put Leo Barry 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.680 on our list because he's a new South Wales boy 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.360 without him going through the draft. You know, we got 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.400 Adam huskis an early draft pick and we got Brad 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.640 Seymour because he was a new South Wales boy. So 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.800 we had, you know, the AFL with very generous in 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.000 those early days Sydney, but they had to be because 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.760 we were a bit of an embarrassment and so but 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.560 to turn it round so quickly, which I put it 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.880 down to Barassi being firm that we would bring the 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.640 best kids in. Wade Chapman came in and played a 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:24.000 pivotal role in that preliminary final and along with all 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.080 the assistance that we got from the AFL, Barrassi having 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.880 faith in the kids to come through and it all 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.320 worked very very well. In that ninety five season. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.520 Eight wins for the year matched the target set by 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.320 coach Ron Barrassi and then Paul Kelly capped off a 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.560 great year by winning the Charles Brownlow Medals. And then 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.120 in ninety six, obviously you're playing in a Grand final 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.800 Rockets doing his stuff and your position as an assistant 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.719 coach and future AFL senior coach really takes off, doesn't it. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.839 There's a lot of clubs who are you know, you're 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.800 in the mix for the Melbourne job. There at one 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.159 stage that Neil Danaher got how close did that come? 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.880 Then Richmond, and then we'll get to collingword after that. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.840 Well, the interesting thing is, as Ralphie said earlier, in 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.880 those days with Barras, I was doing a hell of 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.760 a lot of the coaching work. And I could have 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.920 I could have been the most wanted criminal on the 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.200 face of the earth. None would have. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.000 Known where I lived. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.160 So you know, you're doing all this work and no 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.120 one's interested. All of a sudden, Rodney Eed turns up 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.120 and Rockett wants to take training himself. Rockett wants to 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.000 do all the planning. Rocket wants to do a lot 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.440 of the set plays. Rockett wants to do because he's 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.360 a young coach and he's doing what all coaches do, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.240 and that's most of the work. I'm sitting there now, 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.680 I'm doing one fifth or one tenth of the work 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.600 that I've been doing previously. And now everyone's talking me up. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.840 I said, where's the where is the only because we 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.360 were winning winning, we're winning what he is doing a 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.000 great job in Sydney. He must have a good team 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.920 around him. Drum bloke must be doing okay, he must 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.440 be doing some good things. But compare with what I 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.360 had been doing the previous years with Brass. It was 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.840 a fraction of what I was doing under Rocket, But 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.120 again Rocket had been through the assistant gig under Pagan. Absolutely, 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.240 so he was very supportive, you know, would give me 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.800 work to do that he knew that was going to help. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.320 It was more than help. Happy. When I had any 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:27.600 interest from any other club, Rocket was very again, he 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.480 was very supportive. So yep, you can just go down 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.800 and talk to them, and he said, we'll just keep 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.880 it to ourselves and you know, we'll we'll tell who 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.720 we need to tell here. But Rockett was very, very helpful. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.599 How close did you get to the Melbourne job and 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:42.280 the Richmond job? 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.480 Yeah, I think Richmond was one that I thought was 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.560 never going to happen because Geeseen had had that incredible 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.400 success as the caretaker coach. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:56.760 Unleas I was there that day. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.160 It's Icon Park, Princess Park, whatever it was when they 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.559 ran down Carton when he was there in an interm. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:07.080 And therefore, I think they weren't totally sold on Jeff 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.840 and they were looking to see if they could maybe 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.920 bring someone else in. But I just knew that in 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:16.600 the day and age that was just going to be 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.000 near impossible. So I was able to go along to 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.520 those interviews and it went very very deep. By the way, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.440 I remember two in the morning, Tony Jewell looking at 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.559 me with his you know, just shaking his head. So 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.560 you've got to give us, You've got to give us 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.240 something that we can go to our supporters. I said, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.080 I think you guys have already made your decision, or 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.040 your decision has already been made for you. So that 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.640 was always a bit the case, and it turned out 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:43.880 that that's out played out. But with Melbourne, I was 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:45.960 always thinking that I was going to get that job. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.400 And even when I spoke to Neil after our last interview, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.560 it just came down I think myself and Neil and 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:59.200 we discussed this one with Joe what's his name, the 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.120 guy that owned Joe GOODNICKI the final interview. The final 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.320 interview comes down to we've got to actually be interviewed 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.600 by Joe Goodney. Right, So we've been through all the football. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.960 With all of these fame football acum and it. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.360 Comes down to this. And I met and Neil have 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.920 laughed about this many times. The question comes, okay, you're 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:23.800 zero and five. Next year. What are you going to do? Right, 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.520 That's a good question to ask aspiring coach. So I 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.960 go through with what you think would be a reasonable 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:35.520 reasonable answer. Well, I'll be talking to the club, making 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.760 sure that the board understands what we're doing, making sure 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.400 that all the coaches feel strong, secure and safe. And 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.680 if you want the coach, don't want to coaches a second, 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.000 you know, the assistant coach, I want them second guessing themselves, 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.439 making sure that players have maintained their conference but been 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.040 fierce And so I give a reasonable answer. I find 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.400 out that Neil has said, Joe, don't worry about what 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.880 I'm doing. I'm worried about how you're going to act. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.120 I'm very excited to be involved with such a great 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.000 football club as Melbourne. He's one of the oldest football 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.760 clubs in Australian probably the world, so I'm really excited 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.240 to be involved in the rebuilding process that's now in 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.600 front of the job Neil. Yeah. 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.880 Well, I think Neil has failed. Back at him and 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.800 to his credit, was a stunning coach for the next 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.360 teen years. You know, and again should have should have 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.280 been able toluck into a couple of premierships with those 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.000 Grand finals that he was in and yeah, and again 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.440 talk what was a horrible, you know, performing team. Maybe 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.319 got him at the right time with young needs and 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.520 young swords and a few others coming through, and Neil 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.960 was able to sort of do really well with that. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.680 In Collingwood, that was a long drawn out scenario there, Damien, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.920 that everyone went denied and denied. But were you ever 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.480 offered from anyone associated with the club the job when 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:57.360 Tony Shaw had it? 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.319 I think we can talk, honestly, statue. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.040 The limitations are going, aren't they They're over? 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:07.400 I think so. Again, Collingwood contact me halfway through the year, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.960 and and this is Tony Shaw's third year. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:14.560 Contracted for a fourth. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:22.840 No, no, but but anyway, they we have all we 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.480 have these meetings in secret, and predominantly it's with a 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.840 it's with a small group, a subcommittee who appoint the coach. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.280 And effectively they said, right, you're the After the third meeting, 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.600 I said, you're the one we want. But you need 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:45.400 to meet the whole committee. I said why, I said, oh, well, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.880 sometimes these we've got a big committee. We need to 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.760 all be on the same page. Everyone needs to have 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.679 buy into your appointment. Okay. So I go down to 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:59.560 Melbourne and I meet everybody. A couple of them don't 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.440 want a third year in a contract, a couple of 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.800 money one or two year. A large portion of them 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.720 were skeptical that I was going to go the way 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.199 of youth. Okay, so we've got the bottom team, We're 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.760 going to get some very good draft choices. They were 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.600 saying we should be able to rebuild by bringing in 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.959 some other plays. I'm saying, well, it's not my experience. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.520 And so I have a bit of a bit of 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:31.400 a contest at that night. But effectively I leave that 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.720 night more or less. I think it might have been 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.319 that day I got a phone call from Freemantle. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:37.840 Yep. 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.640 So I'm just saying to them, I have one more 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.120 meeting I have to have tomorrow because Freemantle are flying 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.679 over to meet me in Sydney. I've got a meeting 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.880 with another club tomorrow. But this should be fine. And 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.720 in the end Freemantle came in and just offered three years, 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.400 and I said, if you want to go with youth, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.240 We're happy to go with youth. They acknowledge that they 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.320 are in a bad way. Freemantle just totally you know, 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.120 they were bought out, yep, and we need to we 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.640 need to go with someone who will bring the kids through. Yes, 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.559 and so as in the end, for two days I. 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.160 Had both jobs, so you knew you had the jobs 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:22.400 yet two. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.400 Days and then I had to make the decision. And 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.280 as it turned out, I reckon, I reckon I misunderstood 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.040 or overrated the young Freemantle. Watched a few few of 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.480 their tapes, saw some good games, probably didn't watch some 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.600 of the lesser paths to it. And you know, you 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.480 get a very high opinion of somebody, you think, but 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.080 maybe there their consistency levels weren't up to it. But anyway, 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.600 and to Moldhouse's credit, so for the following next year, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:52.360 Tony Shaw coaches. They don't do they don't do very well, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.640 and then they bring Moldouse in and Moldhouse then had 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.240 a very poor first year. But then more or let's 0:14:59.240 --> 0:14:59.920 get to you into a grandfar. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.920 Yeah, by two thousand and two he's in a Grand Final. 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:07.160 Which is and effectively did it with what you might 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:08.960 call players that have been other clubs. 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:09.240 Yeah. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:10.080 Yeah. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.840 So there was some reporting that Kevin Rose obviously wanted 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.560 you as the Collingwood coach, because it had leaked out. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.360 I'm not sure how Tony got wind of it. Was upset. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.520 Yes, was there any uncertainly there about whether they're still 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.240 offer you that job or you you had that decision, 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.200 I will take either job you still to Yeah, it 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:27.240 was never withdrawn from you. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.080 No, no, no, no, no no. And it was just I 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.360 think it was the club's way. And you know, there's 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.640 a club's way of saying this. These conversations with Drum 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:36.240 never happened. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.800 Yeah, they had to. They had to just make that point. 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.760 So they went and supported Tony again. And you know 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.520 that I felt. I felt terrible the whole way through 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.480 because I knew what it would be like to be 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.000 in that role and to have your club, you know, 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.760 working behind your back, and you know he was just 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.520 such a loyal Callingwood person. But again, when you're in 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.360 that position and yet at that age, you are in 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.560 a sense blinded by m B. You are blinded by 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.120 your own chance to be a senior coach, certainly at 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.200 such a powerful footy club as Collingwood. And it was 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.080 only the as I say, it was the people that 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.960 were arguing, do we really need to do? We really 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.120 need to just go with the kids, or can we 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.840 bring in can we get rid of these early draft 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.440 picks and bring up some second hand players? And I 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.200 was thinking no. But I also may have been misunderestimating 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:28.920 how good Tony Rocker was going to be, how good 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.680 Nathan Buckley would be, and you know the dominating roles 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.160 that they were going Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely because they 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.760 were seriously, very very good players, along with a range 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:38.160 of others. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.680 Yeah, so you take the Collingwood roll. 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.040 It's only twelve months on that Mick Maldhouse doesn't coach 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.920 Collinwood do a premiership. It's an amazing sliding doors moment. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:47.720 Yeah. 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.800 True. And also this could have happened. You know that 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.720 next year was my first year Wooden spoon. The next 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.960 year where Maldhouse comes in and I think he wins 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.040 first three games and wins another two or three for 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.600 the rest of the year, that could have been my 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.480 last year. You know, you turn around with a Wooden 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.760 spoon and six wins in your second year, even though 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.960 you contracted for I could easily have had two year contract, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.320 two year career at Collingwood and you've got to be 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.600 you know, so it's very tough. 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.840 So if collingwand had said to you at the time, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.760 you can do whatever you want, you can take kids, 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:25.440 you can do whatever. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.560 Would you have taken Collingwood? Would you have taken that job? 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:28.879 You think? 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.520 Just not mind ball decision? And those meetings where did 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:36.639 they take place? Like they clearly leaked out? Just fascinating 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.600 that how close it came, because I think everyone realized 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.600 that it was that close, it was nearly done. 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:48.359 They came to they took place, and the residences of 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.919 the guys that were on the subcommittee. 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:51.679 And you obviously don't want to say who they are, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:52.920 but it was but it was. 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.480 So and as I say it was, it was a 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.920 dark for me. It was a dark process to go through. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.320 Of course I wish, I wish I hadn't have done it, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.159 in many instances of wish I hadn't have done it. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.879 And because Tony was contracted, Because. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.959 Tony was contracted, and you know we were we started talking, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.359 you know, maybe halfway through the year, and it was 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:23.560 so as it turned out. As it turned out, I 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.800 think Mouldhouse was able to do a brilliant job when 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:32.320 he took over that team, that club, and then I 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.399 got my opportunity over at Freer and that one didn't work, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.680 but at least they gave me the license that I 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.040 was looking for to, you know, to go to the 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.680 draft and bring in some talent and see where we went. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.720 Well, thanks for sharing that. That's fascinating. So long years 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.040 the number two pick. You've got players like Clement Bond, 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.440 kick It, Adrian Fletcher, Brad We're our Daniel Bandy, Stephen Coop, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.879 Spider Burton, a mix of players. But I think you 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.119 said later on, look, it was trying to find your 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.920 a very very average list, so you should have cut deeper. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.280 You should have brought five more kids in. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.320 Did it take a not very much time for you 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.320 to realize, Okay, this is a pretty deep dark hole. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.480 It took me a while, probably took me that first year, 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.320 and I I suppose to put a bit of perspective 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:25.119 back to it. When the club formed, Jared Nish was 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.760 able to bring back maybe five or six or seven 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.439 really good wa boys in the in the AFL. So 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.960 Steve and O'Reilly comes back in, Peter Mann comes back in, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.080 and there's a range of others. Chrissy Bond comes over. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.160 Good characters as well, just ripping Felts. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.199 The problem was that after four years with Jared and 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.480 another year with me, they were all just about done 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:54.159 and Dustin. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.560 So I just I a dove tailing I had. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.000 I had a whole heap of thirty three thirty four 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:05.840 year old Ben Allen had already retired and so a 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.639 lot of the guys that were the leaders of the 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.520 club were struggling to get a game and it was 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.480 just a tough, very tough environment then to sort of say, right, 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.320 what are we going to do here? So again I 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.960 had ripping support from Terry Bright was the coach I 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.920 took with me from Victoria. Mark Riley was a coach 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.320 who was in lace under Jered Neisham, who was really good. 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.760 And you know, Jerry McNeil was a foody manager who 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.040 was a ripping, ripping footy manager. So I had really 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.919 good support and so the board were fantastic for two years. 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:46.040 But again they were looking for a quicker ascension and 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.800 it didn't quite didn't quite come about. But at least 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.399 we stayed true to our word and we kept those kids. 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.600 We kept bringing the kids in, you know, and gave 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.440 away didn't give away any of our top draft picks 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.240 in that until we had to go and get Peter 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.800 Bell when he became available. That Peter Bell very nearly 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.959 became David King. So we were talking to David King 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.960 all year. Really he was very keen to come over, 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.520 but you know, North Melbourne again just made it very 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.640 clear to him it just wasn't It wasn't going to happen. 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.800 So you have a six ade and Sinclair for Peter Bell, 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:26.040 and he played a lot of games for free and 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.960