Speaker 1: Whenever you're going to do something like this, you don't
Speaker 1: want to bug it up. So if you're going to
Speaker 1: sack a coach, you need to be very very clear
Speaker 1: as to how you're doing. If you're gonna do this,
Speaker 1: you need to be one hundred you know. It has
Speaker 1: to be done with integrity. It has to be done
Speaker 1: with a lot of thoughtfulness, It has to be done
Speaker 1: in a very careful way. It has to be done
Speaker 1: with a sharp knife. You're gonna take your head off
Speaker 1: sharp knife. So and they probably couldn't have watched it
Speaker 1: if they had tried.
Speaker 2: I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens
Speaker 3: when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take
Speaker 3: you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names
Speaker 3: in football and find out how they found out their
Speaker 3: time was up and who pulled the trigger. Sacked IFL
Speaker 3: is made possible with the support of subscribers to.
Speaker 4: The Held Sun.
Speaker 3: To find out more, go to Heldsun dot com or
Speaker 3: download the Herald Sun app at your app store today.
Speaker 5: The last one to know the second part of our
Speaker 5: chat with Damian Drum. Damian Drum spent more time as
Speaker 5: an AFL coach in waiting than he did in the
Speaker 5: hot seat, given he was up for roles as the
Speaker 5: coach of the Swans the Demons, and he almost had
Speaker 5: the Collingwood job before moving to Fremantle in one of
Speaker 5: the most notorious coach sackings in AFL history. Drum learned
Speaker 5: of his sacking on live television just nine games into
Speaker 5: his third season in the top job, and yet it
Speaker 5: allowed the former Shed builder to embark on his most
Speaker 5: consequential role yet two decades as a member of state
Speaker 5: and federal Parliament.
Speaker 1: Rockett has a team meeting on a Monday, and he
Speaker 1: takes them through the game and he says, right, right now,
Speaker 1: it's over to Drumming to work out all your additional
Speaker 1: training sessions and work out what you're doing. So I
Speaker 1: get arena. So write our additional waits for Smith, Jones, Brown,
Speaker 1: Black and Smith. Again, we're doing extra, a little bit
Speaker 1: of extra cardio for these five, these five players, visio
Speaker 1: and doctors need to be in tomorrow. Locket and Kelly.
Speaker 1: Right as soon as I say Lockett's name, his head
Speaker 1: drops down, he drops his eyes straight down, his feet.
Speaker 1: I know Lockett's not going to turn up. So at
Speaker 1: this stage he's got a dodgy knee and they're more
Speaker 1: or less putting a needle in and sucking the extra
Speaker 1: fluid out early in the week to enable that to
Speaker 1: get better so he can play next week. And we
Speaker 1: need him to turn up. And so I know he's
Speaker 1: not going to turn up. So as all the players
Speaker 1: are walking out, I'm at the exit. Players are walking
Speaker 1: past me and Tony turns up. I said, Tony. He
Speaker 1: doesn't look up. Tony doesn't look up as he walks
Speaker 1: past me. I put my hand around his throat, just
Speaker 1: stopping the very game. He says, take your hand off, mate,
Speaker 1: I need you take your hand off. So I've got
Speaker 1: to make a decision now in front of in front
Speaker 1: of twenty and I'm blocking the doorways told me to
Speaker 1: get tap my hand off. I decided to double down
Speaker 1: and put a bit of a squeeze. Mate, mate, I
Speaker 1: need you just tell me you're going to be next thing.
Speaker 1: His hand is around my throat and I've got this,
Speaker 1: and then the strangle to well. Then I yes, he
Speaker 1: was Tony Colors. But then I start to feel my
Speaker 1: feet leave the ground. So he is simply sliding me
Speaker 1: up against with my back. I say, mate, I tap out.
Speaker 1: You win. Anyway, It's an interesting one because Tony then
Speaker 1: doesn't talk to me for a month.
Speaker 2: Okay, goold, hold a grudge.
Speaker 1: And and just one that I got incredibly wrong, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking right, I've got to stop this. I can't let
Speaker 1: him walk out. Let him walk out and just go
Speaker 1: and have a chat with him. You know, I had
Speaker 1: him a chance, had my time again.
Speaker 2: But so he didn't turn up the next thing. He
Speaker 2: didn't turn up, didn't turn up for.
Speaker 1: The didn't turn up for the for the physio or
Speaker 1: the doctors. And but as I say so, I'm talking
Speaker 1: to him all the time. He's just ignoring me for
Speaker 1: the next month. And then he breaks it. We break
Speaker 1: it down and it's all good. Then my gay back
Speaker 1: and talk to him, said so, mate, why why are
Speaker 1: you so fierce about what should have been a bit
Speaker 1: of a joke. And he goes, mate, no one touches me,
Speaker 1: No one not an aggressive don't don't think he can
Speaker 1: be aggressive physically with me. And you should have known
Speaker 1: him better. I said, yeah, you're right, I should have
Speaker 1: known him better. But I anyway, so you get a
Speaker 1: few things wrong and that's my best one. I got
Speaker 1: wrong with Plugger, but he was again he you know,
Speaker 1: along with a few others, effectively save that club definitely
Speaker 1: from where it was going and the path through to
Speaker 1: where it went. And along with Barassi, and you know,
Speaker 1: the emergence of Paul Kelly can't be understated any of it.
Speaker 1: Like he's a young kid from Wagga, you know, four
Speaker 1: five five six stone, ringing wet, but he could just
Speaker 1: run and became the most inspirational captain that club could
Speaker 1: ever have hoped for as a as a homegrown boy.
Speaker 1: He put Andrew Dunkley, who you know wasn't a great kick,
Speaker 1: but he became a seriously good full back. And so
Speaker 1: we had some really really good players and Paul Ruse
Speaker 1: comes in and all of a sudden we've got a
Speaker 1: seriously good team. And because Barassi had also insisted that
Speaker 1: we keep our draft picks and the AFL had given us,
Speaker 1: the AFL had given us a very good suite of drafts.
Speaker 1: By the way, too, we're able to put Leo Barry
Speaker 1: on our list because he's a new South Wales boy
Speaker 1: without him going through the draft. You know, we got
Speaker 1: Adam huskis an early draft pick and we got Brad
Speaker 1: Seymour because he was a new South Wales boy. So
Speaker 1: we had, you know, the AFL with very generous in
Speaker 1: those early days Sydney, but they had to be because
Speaker 1: we were a bit of an embarrassment and so but
Speaker 1: to turn it round so quickly, which I put it
Speaker 1: down to Barassi being firm that we would bring the
Speaker 1: best kids in. Wade Chapman came in and played a
Speaker 1: pivotal role in that preliminary final and along with all
Speaker 1: the assistance that we got from the AFL, Barrassi having
Speaker 1: faith in the kids to come through and it all
Speaker 1: worked very very well. In that ninety five season.
Speaker 5: Eight wins for the year matched the target set by
Speaker 5: coach Ron Barrassi and then Paul Kelly capped off a
Speaker 5: great year by winning the Charles Brownlow Medals. And then
Speaker 5: in ninety six, obviously you're playing in a Grand final
Speaker 5: Rockets doing his stuff and your position as an assistant
Speaker 5: coach and future AFL senior coach really takes off, doesn't it.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of clubs who are you know, you're
Speaker 5: in the mix for the Melbourne job. There at one
Speaker 5: stage that Neil Danaher got how close did that come?
Speaker 5: Then Richmond, and then we'll get to collingword after that.
Speaker 1: Well, the interesting thing is, as Ralphie said earlier, in
Speaker 1: those days with Barras, I was doing a hell of
Speaker 1: a lot of the coaching work. And I could have
Speaker 1: I could have been the most wanted criminal on the
Speaker 1: face of the earth. None would have.
Speaker 4: Known where I lived.
Speaker 1: So you know, you're doing all this work and no
Speaker 1: one's interested. All of a sudden, Rodney Eed turns up
Speaker 1: and Rockett wants to take training himself. Rockett wants to
Speaker 1: do all the planning. Rocket wants to do a lot
Speaker 1: of the set plays. Rockett wants to do because he's
Speaker 1: a young coach and he's doing what all coaches do,
Speaker 1: and that's most of the work. I'm sitting there now,
Speaker 1: I'm doing one fifth or one tenth of the work
Speaker 1: that I've been doing previously. And now everyone's talking me up.
Speaker 1: I said, where's the where is the only because we
Speaker 1: were winning winning, we're winning what he is doing a
Speaker 1: great job in Sydney. He must have a good team
Speaker 1: around him. Drum bloke must be doing okay, he must
Speaker 1: be doing some good things. But compare with what I
Speaker 1: had been doing the previous years with Brass. It was
Speaker 1: a fraction of what I was doing under Rocket, But
Speaker 1: again Rocket had been through the assistant gig under Pagan. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: so he was very supportive, you know, would give me
Speaker 1: work to do that he knew that was going to help.
Speaker 1: It was more than help. Happy. When I had any
Speaker 1: interest from any other club, Rocket was very again, he
Speaker 1: was very supportive. So yep, you can just go down
Speaker 1: and talk to them, and he said, we'll just keep
Speaker 1: it to ourselves and you know, we'll we'll tell who
Speaker 1: we need to tell here. But Rockett was very, very helpful.
Speaker 4: How close did you get to the Melbourne job and
Speaker 4: the Richmond job?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Richmond was one that I thought was
Speaker 1: never going to happen because Geeseen had had that incredible
Speaker 1: success as the caretaker coach.
Speaker 2: Unleas I was there that day.
Speaker 3: It's Icon Park, Princess Park, whatever it was when they
Speaker 3: ran down Carton when he was there in an interm.
Speaker 1: And therefore, I think they weren't totally sold on Jeff
Speaker 1: and they were looking to see if they could maybe
Speaker 1: bring someone else in. But I just knew that in
Speaker 1: the day and age that was just going to be
Speaker 1: near impossible. So I was able to go along to
Speaker 1: those interviews and it went very very deep. By the way,
Speaker 1: I remember two in the morning, Tony Jewell looking at
Speaker 1: me with his you know, just shaking his head. So
Speaker 1: you've got to give us, You've got to give us
Speaker 1: something that we can go to our supporters. I said,
Speaker 1: I think you guys have already made your decision, or
Speaker 1: your decision has already been made for you. So that
Speaker 1: was always a bit the case, and it turned out
Speaker 1: that that's out played out. But with Melbourne, I was
Speaker 1: always thinking that I was going to get that job.
Speaker 1: And even when I spoke to Neil after our last interview,
Speaker 1: it just came down I think myself and Neil and
Speaker 1: we discussed this one with Joe what's his name, the
Speaker 1: guy that owned Joe GOODNICKI the final interview. The final
Speaker 1: interview comes down to we've got to actually be interviewed
Speaker 1: by Joe Goodney. Right, So we've been through all the football.
Speaker 4: With all of these fame football acum and it.
Speaker 1: Comes down to this. And I met and Neil have
Speaker 1: laughed about this many times. The question comes, okay, you're
Speaker 1: zero and five. Next year. What are you going to do? Right,
Speaker 1: That's a good question to ask aspiring coach. So I
Speaker 1: go through with what you think would be a reasonable
Speaker 1: reasonable answer. Well, I'll be talking to the club, making
Speaker 1: sure that the board understands what we're doing, making sure
Speaker 1: that all the coaches feel strong, secure and safe. And
Speaker 1: if you want the coach, don't want to coaches a second,
Speaker 1: you know, the assistant coach, I want them second guessing themselves,
Speaker 1: making sure that players have maintained their conference but been
Speaker 1: fierce And so I give a reasonable answer. I find
Speaker 1: out that Neil has said, Joe, don't worry about what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm worried about how you're going to act.
Speaker 6: I'm very excited to be involved with such a great
Speaker 6: football club as Melbourne. He's one of the oldest football
Speaker 6: clubs in Australian probably the world, so I'm really excited
Speaker 6: to be involved in the rebuilding process that's now in
Speaker 6: front of the job Neil. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I think Neil has failed. Back at him and
Speaker 1: to his credit, was a stunning coach for the next
Speaker 1: teen years. You know, and again should have should have
Speaker 1: been able toluck into a couple of premierships with those
Speaker 1: Grand finals that he was in and yeah, and again
Speaker 1: talk what was a horrible, you know, performing team. Maybe
Speaker 1: got him at the right time with young needs and
Speaker 1: young swords and a few others coming through, and Neil
Speaker 1: was able to sort of do really well with that.
Speaker 5: In Collingwood, that was a long drawn out scenario there, Damien,
Speaker 5: that everyone went denied and denied. But were you ever
Speaker 5: offered from anyone associated with the club the job when
Speaker 5: Tony Shaw had it?
Speaker 1: I think we can talk, honestly, statue.
Speaker 2: The limitations are going, aren't they They're over?
Speaker 1: I think so. Again, Collingwood contact me halfway through the year,
Speaker 1: and and this is Tony Shaw's third year.
Speaker 4: Contracted for a fourth.
Speaker 1: No, no, but but anyway, they we have all we
Speaker 1: have these meetings in secret, and predominantly it's with a
Speaker 1: it's with a small group, a subcommittee who appoint the coach.
Speaker 1: And effectively they said, right, you're the After the third meeting,
Speaker 1: I said, you're the one we want. But you need
Speaker 1: to meet the whole committee. I said why, I said, oh, well,
Speaker 1: sometimes these we've got a big committee. We need to
Speaker 1: all be on the same page. Everyone needs to have
Speaker 1: buy into your appointment. Okay. So I go down to
Speaker 1: Melbourne and I meet everybody. A couple of them don't
Speaker 1: want a third year in a contract, a couple of
Speaker 1: money one or two year. A large portion of them
Speaker 1: were skeptical that I was going to go the way
Speaker 1: of youth. Okay, so we've got the bottom team, We're
Speaker 1: going to get some very good draft choices. They were
Speaker 1: saying we should be able to rebuild by bringing in
Speaker 1: some other plays. I'm saying, well, it's not my experience.
Speaker 1: And so I have a bit of a bit of
Speaker 1: a contest at that night. But effectively I leave that
Speaker 1: night more or less. I think it might have been
Speaker 1: that day I got a phone call from Freemantle.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying to them, I have one more
Speaker 1: meeting I have to have tomorrow because Freemantle are flying
Speaker 1: over to meet me in Sydney. I've got a meeting
Speaker 1: with another club tomorrow. But this should be fine. And
Speaker 1: in the end Freemantle came in and just offered three years,
Speaker 1: and I said, if you want to go with youth,
Speaker 1: We're happy to go with youth. They acknowledge that they
Speaker 1: are in a bad way. Freemantle just totally you know,
Speaker 1: they were bought out, yep, and we need to we
Speaker 1: need to go with someone who will bring the kids through. Yes,
Speaker 1: and so as in the end, for two days I.
Speaker 2: Had both jobs, so you knew you had the jobs
Speaker 2: yet two.
Speaker 1: Days and then I had to make the decision. And
Speaker 1: as it turned out, I reckon, I reckon I misunderstood
Speaker 1: or overrated the young Freemantle. Watched a few few of
Speaker 1: their tapes, saw some good games, probably didn't watch some
Speaker 1: of the lesser paths to it. And you know, you
Speaker 1: get a very high opinion of somebody, you think, but
Speaker 1: maybe there their consistency levels weren't up to it. But anyway,
Speaker 1: and to Moldhouse's credit, so for the following next year,
Speaker 1: Tony Shaw coaches. They don't do they don't do very well,
Speaker 1: and then they bring Moldouse in and Moldhouse then had
Speaker 1: a very poor first year. But then more or let's
Speaker 1: get to you into a grandfar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, by two thousand and two he's in a Grand Final.
Speaker 1: Which is and effectively did it with what you might
Speaker 1: call players that have been other clubs.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So there was some reporting that Kevin Rose obviously wanted
Speaker 3: you as the Collingwood coach, because it had leaked out.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure how Tony got wind of it. Was upset.
Speaker 3: Yes, was there any uncertainly there about whether they're still
Speaker 3: offer you that job or you you had that decision,
Speaker 3: I will take either job you still to Yeah, it
Speaker 3: was never withdrawn from you.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no no. And it was just I
Speaker 1: think it was the club's way. And you know, there's
Speaker 1: a club's way of saying this. These conversations with Drum
Speaker 1: never happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to. They had to just make that point.
Speaker 1: So they went and supported Tony again. And you know
Speaker 1: that I felt. I felt terrible the whole way through
Speaker 1: because I knew what it would be like to be
Speaker 1: in that role and to have your club, you know,
Speaker 1: working behind your back, and you know he was just
Speaker 1: such a loyal Callingwood person. But again, when you're in
Speaker 1: that position and yet at that age, you are in
Speaker 1: a sense blinded by m B. You are blinded by
Speaker 1: your own chance to be a senior coach, certainly at
Speaker 1: such a powerful footy club as Collingwood. And it was
Speaker 1: only the as I say, it was the people that
Speaker 1: were arguing, do we really need to do? We really
Speaker 1: need to just go with the kids, or can we
Speaker 1: bring in can we get rid of these early draft
Speaker 1: picks and bring up some second hand players? And I
Speaker 1: was thinking no. But I also may have been misunderestimating
Speaker 1: how good Tony Rocker was going to be, how good
Speaker 1: Nathan Buckley would be, and you know the dominating roles
Speaker 1: that they were going Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely because they
Speaker 1: were seriously, very very good players, along with a range
Speaker 1: of others.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you take the Collingwood roll.
Speaker 3: It's only twelve months on that Mick Maldhouse doesn't coach
Speaker 3: Collinwood do a premiership. It's an amazing sliding doors moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: True. And also this could have happened. You know that
Speaker 1: next year was my first year Wooden spoon. The next
Speaker 1: year where Maldhouse comes in and I think he wins
Speaker 1: first three games and wins another two or three for
Speaker 1: the rest of the year, that could have been my
Speaker 1: last year. You know, you turn around with a Wooden
Speaker 1: spoon and six wins in your second year, even though
Speaker 1: you contracted for I could easily have had two year contract,
Speaker 1: two year career at Collingwood and you've got to be
Speaker 1: you know, so it's very tough.
Speaker 5: So if collingwand had said to you at the time,
Speaker 5: you can do whatever you want, you can take kids,
Speaker 5: you can do whatever.
Speaker 2: Would you have taken Collingwood? Would you have taken that job?
Speaker 1: You think?
Speaker 5: Just not mind ball decision? And those meetings where did
Speaker 5: they take place? Like they clearly leaked out? Just fascinating
Speaker 5: that how close it came, because I think everyone realized
Speaker 5: that it was that close, it was nearly done.
Speaker 1: They came to they took place, and the residences of
Speaker 1: the guys that were on the subcommittee.
Speaker 2: And you obviously don't want to say who they are,
Speaker 2: but it was but it was.
Speaker 1: So and as I say it was, it was a
Speaker 1: dark for me. It was a dark process to go through.
Speaker 1: Of course I wish, I wish I hadn't have done it,
Speaker 1: in many instances of wish I hadn't have done it.
Speaker 4: And because Tony was contracted, Because.
Speaker 1: Tony was contracted, and you know we were we started talking,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe halfway through the year, and it was
Speaker 1: so as it turned out. As it turned out, I
Speaker 1: think Mouldhouse was able to do a brilliant job when
Speaker 1: he took over that team, that club, and then I
Speaker 1: got my opportunity over at Freer and that one didn't work,
Speaker 1: but at least they gave me the license that I
Speaker 1: was looking for to, you know, to go to the
Speaker 1: draft and bring in some talent and see where we went.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for sharing that. That's fascinating. So long years
Speaker 3: the number two pick. You've got players like Clement Bond,
Speaker 3: kick It, Adrian Fletcher, Brad We're our Daniel Bandy, Stephen Coop,
Speaker 3: Spider Burton, a mix of players. But I think you
Speaker 3: said later on, look, it was trying to find your
Speaker 3: a very very average list, so you should have cut deeper.
Speaker 4: You should have brought five more kids in.
Speaker 3: Did it take a not very much time for you
Speaker 3: to realize, Okay, this is a pretty deep dark hole.
Speaker 1: It took me a while, probably took me that first year,
Speaker 1: and I I suppose to put a bit of perspective
Speaker 1: back to it. When the club formed, Jared Nish was
Speaker 1: able to bring back maybe five or six or seven
Speaker 1: really good wa boys in the in the AFL. So
Speaker 1: Steve and O'Reilly comes back in, Peter Mann comes back in,
Speaker 1: and there's a range of others. Chrissy Bond comes over.
Speaker 4: Good characters as well, just ripping Felts.
Speaker 1: The problem was that after four years with Jared and
Speaker 1: another year with me, they were all just about done
Speaker 1: and Dustin.
Speaker 4: So I just I a dove tailing I had.
Speaker 1: I had a whole heap of thirty three thirty four
Speaker 1: year old Ben Allen had already retired and so a
Speaker 1: lot of the guys that were the leaders of the
Speaker 1: club were struggling to get a game and it was
Speaker 1: just a tough, very tough environment then to sort of say, right,
Speaker 1: what are we going to do here? So again I
Speaker 1: had ripping support from Terry Bright was the coach I
Speaker 1: took with me from Victoria. Mark Riley was a coach
Speaker 1: who was in lace under Jered Neisham, who was really good.
Speaker 1: And you know, Jerry McNeil was a foody manager who
Speaker 1: was a ripping, ripping footy manager. So I had really
Speaker 1: good support and so the board were fantastic for two years.
Speaker 1: But again they were looking for a quicker ascension and
Speaker 1: it didn't quite didn't quite come about. But at least
Speaker 1: we stayed true to our word and we kept those kids.
Speaker 1: We kept bringing the kids in, you know, and gave
Speaker 1: away didn't give away any of our top draft picks
Speaker 1: in that until we had to go and get Peter
Speaker 1: Bell when he became available. That Peter Bell very nearly
Speaker 1: became David King. So we were talking to David King
Speaker 1: all year. Really he was very keen to come over,
Speaker 1: but you know, North Melbourne again just made it very
Speaker 1: clear to him it just wasn't It wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 3: So you have a six ade and Sinclair for Peter Bell,
Speaker 3: and he played a lot of games for free and
Speaker 3: obviously Identity and a football boss there. Last game of
Speaker 3: ninety ninety nine, it's through the infamous tanking. It's the
Speaker 3: Hazerby game where Geelong kicks. See the last eleven goals
Speaker 3: of that game. You know, some players will probably played
Speaker 3: out of positions. Of course you can get a priority
Speaker 3: pick if you lose, that player turns into Matthew Pavlich.
Speaker 3: Take us through the lead up where your president, Ross McLean,
Speaker 3: you know, probably reminds you is that the right word?
Speaker 3: So we need to win this game, and everyone at
Speaker 3: that stage was taking advantage of the rules.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there was a little bit of there
Speaker 1: was a bit of talk around the foot traps in
Speaker 1: w A. You know, the doctors would be nuts if
Speaker 1: they win this game. So we're very much aware of that.
Speaker 1: We're very much aware of how good both Pavlich and
Speaker 1: hazle By are. So whichever way we choose with our
Speaker 1: other pick depend who's going to be the the concession player. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we we compete, we do as hard as we do,
Speaker 1: as hard as we can, We go as hard as
Speaker 1: we can. Doesn't work out our way and we end
Speaker 1: up getting a pavilege as a compensation for losing that game,
Speaker 1: you know. And this, this situation now has led to
Speaker 1: the NFL and the n b L, NBA, so they
Speaker 1: create a lottery, a lottery, and you know, so that
Speaker 1: may happen or now it's got the situation where the
Speaker 1: AFL simply make these calls based on the based on
Speaker 1: the severity of the season.
Speaker 3: So I mean, obviously, I think Terry Wallace has said
Speaker 3: in a similar game he felt conflicted, but there was nothing.
Speaker 1: You guys, you can't do anything about that.
Speaker 4: Done like Melbourne did.
Speaker 5: Was it right that you that Matthew Pavlich said to
Speaker 5: you at one stage, if you draft me to freemantle,
Speaker 5: it will be my worst nightmare come true.
Speaker 1: He said that his mum, his mum, who was the
Speaker 1: most lovely lady of all time said, I can't understand
Speaker 1: why you would want to do this?
Speaker 4: He said it to you, Yes, yes, you're gonna.
Speaker 1: He's got he's got a posse of thirty friends and
Speaker 1: relatives that go and sit together to watch him play
Speaker 1: with Norwood. Why would you want to take him to
Speaker 1: Perth because he's possibly the best kid in Australia.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but Matthew was very, very, you know, strong. He
Speaker 1: said it would be my worst nightmare.
Speaker 4: What did he say to you? I think he said
Speaker 4: that publicly, But what was he saying to you? Don't
Speaker 4: take me?
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, absolutely don't take me. I don't want to go,
Speaker 1: you know, very keen to stay there, and he was.
Speaker 1: He was just a stunningly you know, mature, young young
Speaker 1: man and he was. He was letting us know exactly
Speaker 1: how he felt. It's interesting about his third In his
Speaker 1: third training session at the club, we're doing a series
Speaker 1: of one kilometer sprints around the ground, two and a
Speaker 1: half laps flat out. You've got about five minutes in
Speaker 1: between each one. He's done four of them and Terry Bright,
Speaker 1: my assistant coach, walked up to me said, I reckon
Speaker 1: young Pablet has had enough, and I said, but he
Speaker 1: just won the last one. He said, yeah, I reckon,
Speaker 1: he's had enough. I said, he's got to learn. He's
Speaker 1: got to learn. We'll give him one more. Halfway through
Speaker 1: the one kilometer time trial, he collapses, Pick him up
Speaker 1: straight to hospital, overnight in intensive care, just overnight watch.
Speaker 1: But he needn't know. So he is a very you know.
Speaker 1: So we should have had I should have displayed greater awareness. However,
Speaker 1: he was absolutely determined. He wasn't gonna he wasn't just
Speaker 1: going to pull over and sort of say I'm a
Speaker 1: bit buggered, I'm a bit tired enough. He ran until
Speaker 1: he collapsed, and there was a little indication of how
Speaker 1: driven this guy.
Speaker 4: This guy is so from the moment that you did
Speaker 4: take him, he was chipsy.
Speaker 1: In one hundred percent. He was there early, turne up
Speaker 1: in great nick even with this this was our first
Speaker 1: or second night of training. He's gone bang.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So leading into that third season, I think you won
Speaker 3: eight games in your second year. You probably knew you're
Speaker 3: under some strife. You lose by one point against Carlton,
Speaker 3: and then you lose the next eight and things are
Speaker 3: brewing and you know, I think you've talked about your demise,
Speaker 3: and you've talked about some people being pretty sloppy and
Speaker 3: quite deceitful, so we understand how it ended. What was
Speaker 3: the prel you did that again?
Speaker 1: I reckon there was a couple of other games there
Speaker 1: where we're in winning.
Speaker 3: Positions, weren't getting back. You lost by forty nine to
Speaker 3: forty four points. But a lot of seventeen eighteen twenty
Speaker 3: two point losses.
Speaker 1: And those seventeen eighteen's. There was one game against Brisbane
Speaker 1: in Brisbane, they're going to win the flag. I think
Speaker 1: they're going to win the flage. Yeah, and we go
Speaker 1: in at three quarter time, we're four or six points up,
Speaker 1: we hit the first goal in the last quarter, go
Speaker 1: ten points up. They kick the next eight and give
Speaker 1: us a bit of a you know, in the last quarter.
Speaker 1: So at ten minutes in the last quarter we're probably
Speaker 1: three goals. We're two goals down there, really young side
Speaker 1: and against the best team in the comp. But there's
Speaker 1: another game against Richmond that we are in a position
Speaker 1: to win and they weren't very good at the time,
Speaker 1: you know, and we should have won that, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden we don't get there, we don't get up.
Speaker 1: So there's a range of games there that we're thinking cheapest,
Speaker 1: this is, this is really going to hurt us, And
Speaker 1: then you start to be I've always been a realist
Speaker 1: with this when you're zero five and you know, and
Speaker 1: someone from the board and so you know you're going
Speaker 1: to have to get one soon, mate. So yeah, Ernest,
Speaker 1: and we will. But you know the game that we
Speaker 1: lose to Carton by a point, Tony would I have
Speaker 1: taken a mark in the goal square and the umpire
Speaker 1: has put him on the goal line like he's got
Speaker 1: to kick it through. He's got to kick it through
Speaker 1: an injury the way, and of course he kicks a point,
Speaker 1: but he should have been should have been straight in
Speaker 1: front anyway. The whole range of little things like that
Speaker 1: stay in your mind. But the element thing is you
Speaker 1: go in zero nine. You know that it's going to
Speaker 1: come in some stage. We got it. You've got to
Speaker 1: win or it's going to come.
Speaker 2: Tell us about that day you're meeting with the AFL.
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know much about the night before, but
Speaker 1: certainly on the day they were just we had a
Speaker 1: meeting with the AFL and it was predominantly about planning
Speaker 1: for next year, where our where our training venue is
Speaker 1: likely to be, what sort of assistants were going to get.
Speaker 1: We needed a new facility that was sort of in
Speaker 1: the process of getting getting fundraised and built. We had
Speaker 1: a whole range of games that we had questioned that
Speaker 1: we were looking so I knew I was under you know,
Speaker 1: a huge amount of pressure, but still to do your job,
Speaker 1: you go to these meetings and you work through it.
Speaker 1: So then as we're breaking for a coffee, David hat
Speaker 1: says to me, oh, there are some reporters outside. I'd
Speaker 1: be going out through the side door, right And I said,
Speaker 1: why would I go through the side door, because I
Speaker 1: just might want to avoid the reporters, And I said,
Speaker 1: doesn't worry me. So I walk out and I walked
Speaker 1: straight into the whole camera mass and they're letting me
Speaker 1: know that.
Speaker 3: I'd be compared in Melbourne.
Speaker 5: Have you been given the sake do anything?
Speaker 1: Does that's true about it? Told?
Speaker 3: So I just stuck around.
Speaker 1: So Adrian Barritge more or lessays, Drum, you've forgot a minute. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: So I walked up and he says, so, what's going on?
Speaker 1: You know, what's happened? I said, I don't know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, what's going on? And yeah, I'm sure this
Speaker 1: vision has been played a million times.
Speaker 4: Like you've officially gone viral.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit like reality TV before it's time.
Speaker 1: So let's sack a coach and let's do it on television.
Speaker 2: That would be good.
Speaker 1: That'd be good. So yeah, I'm standing in front of
Speaker 1: the camera and Adrian Barratt is more or less telling
Speaker 1: me that I've been sacked, and I'll go, no, you
Speaker 1: can't be that can't happen. Surely that's not right. And anyway,
Speaker 1: I think I had to go toarlet or something, so
Speaker 1: I'll be back in a set. I've nearly collapsed just
Speaker 1: going up the stairs anyway.
Speaker 3: And you said bright and breezing and he's lovely grind
Speaker 3: on your face and then you're just bewildered by it all.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's tragic to watch and it's comical
Speaker 3: in some way and it's heartbreaking for you.
Speaker 1: Well, it is one of those. It was just whenever
Speaker 1: you're going to do something like this, you don't want
Speaker 1: to bug it up. So if you're going to sack
Speaker 1: a coach, you need to be very very clear as
Speaker 1: to how you do it. If you're gonna do this,
Speaker 1: you need to be one hundred you know. It has
Speaker 1: to be done with integrity. It has to be done
Speaker 1: with a lot of thoughtfulness. It has to be done
Speaker 1: in a very careful way. It has to be done
Speaker 1: with a sharp knife. You're going to take your head
Speaker 1: off sharp knife. So, and they probably couldn't have botched
Speaker 1: it if they tried in a better way. But I
Speaker 1: think in their defense, the president had a business trip
Speaker 1: in Victoria that next day, and I had a good
Speaker 1: as Ross mcclas and Ross and I had a good
Speaker 1: relations and maybe he wanted to tell me personally. Maybe
Speaker 1: he wanted to be the one to tell me. So said, well,
Speaker 1: we won't say anything for twelve twenty four hours, and
Speaker 1: let me get back from my business trip and I'll
Speaker 1: go and see. So that that's the only sort of
Speaker 1: defense that I can give them. And as it turned out.
Speaker 2: Someone's leaked it out.
Speaker 1: Someone's leaked it out, and once it's leaked, it's it
Speaker 1: can't be bought back in.
Speaker 2: So what do you do after that? So you go
Speaker 2: back and what hotel was was at a hotel wasn't it.
Speaker 1: At a hotel and hotel ultimately you And the one
Speaker 1: good thing about being an assistant coach for quite a
Speaker 1: few years in Sydney is that I had seen many
Speaker 1: coaches getting sacked. Been a player, seen many coaches getting sacked.
Speaker 1: So you learn, you learn from just observing. This one
Speaker 1: over here did it with a fair amount of grace.
Speaker 1: This one over here too nasty on everybody. This one
Speaker 1: here blamed the players, this one blamed the coaches, This
Speaker 1: one blames somebody else. This one over here was fantastic,
Speaker 1: you know. So you know, even in that very short time,
Speaker 1: you know how to act. We know how you should act,
Speaker 1: and I was, luckily I was. I'll just keep it
Speaker 1: together and say if this has happened, so be it.
Speaker 1: You know, thank everybody good luck, and you sort of
Speaker 1: very quickly move on. You know, it might be what
Speaker 1: you're thinking, but you certainly know how to how to act,
Speaker 1: and you have to maintain your dignity.
Speaker 3: So when you get told by the media you make
Speaker 3: phone calls, how quickly does it become apparent to you
Speaker 3: it's true.
Speaker 1: So there's only a few minutes. We've just been a
Speaker 1: call to Jered mc Neil is this is it really
Speaker 1: happened to it? And then yeah, then you realize it's happened.
Speaker 1: So ultimately it's a matter of just go home.
Speaker 5: And yet that night you do an interview with Dennis
Speaker 5: Committee in your pilot as well, like you feel like
Speaker 5: saying stuff that I'm not wearing a pilo outside outside
Speaker 5: your hand, Dennis.
Speaker 1: But you know that's the way it's been over the
Speaker 1: last five or six weeks. What do you expect. I
Speaker 1: don't expect any good news tomorrow. I think I'll I
Speaker 1: think I'll be getting some a couple of poor phone
Speaker 1: calls tomorrow. Have you spoken to your president today? I
Speaker 1: left the message on my phone before we had to
Speaker 1: fly to Melbourne, so he just wants to talk to
Speaker 1: me tomorrow. So it wouldn't have been the only one. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's been running pretty busy, but that's the way things
Speaker 1: are in these times. You've heard all of that.
Speaker 3: Is he definitely going to be sacked tomorrow?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately he is.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 1: The Freemanal Board Friminal Board voted today to sack Dame
Speaker 1: in Drum.
Speaker 2: It was a secret man he held this afternoon.
Speaker 1: I understand the chairman Ross McClain again that's what we
Speaker 1: had done all year. So ultimately it was again an
Speaker 1: opportunity for me to wish the club well, an opportunity
Speaker 1: for me to just effectively, you know, thank those that
Speaker 1: have thank those that have put me in that position,
Speaker 1: and move on. You know. So I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to didn't want it to end in a in a
Speaker 1: disaster or a name calling situation. You know, I really
Speaker 1: felt I got great support. There was I can there
Speaker 1: was one one chap there that probably could have been
Speaker 1: a bit more upfront and honest.
Speaker 3: So if you send that, it's still on Talking Footy
Speaker 3: and they flash back to you and your daughter's there
Speaker 3: looking Dennison and you know, Bruce makes a fifty comment
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what was the toll taken on your family?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 1: Well, in my young bloke Glueke, who's thirty three, gets
Speaker 1: into a blue at school the next week because someone's
Speaker 1: teasing him about your dad's been sacked, and but you know,
Speaker 1: that's part of growing up, you're getting teased. Most of
Speaker 1: the other kids were a bit young, so that's that's
Speaker 1: by the bye. But ultimately, you know the fact that
Speaker 1: we got to go to Sydney and live in a
Speaker 1: fantastic city as Sydney had his amazing experiences. Then we've
Speaker 1: got to go to Perth. Great opportunities again. Unfortunately the
Speaker 1: footy didn't work out. And if you don't win games
Speaker 1: a footy, you know you're gonna get sacked and so
Speaker 1: and the club has every right to do that. And
Speaker 1: you know, as I say, in the club did it.
Speaker 1: Apart from the way they botched it at the coal
Speaker 1: face cold face, behind the scenes, they were incredibly good.
Speaker 1: You know, the committee members would come up, would ring
Speaker 1: me up, sorry about that. We had to do it,
Speaker 1: you know, so they were they were generally nice people.
Speaker 1: They just watched that process which is pretty Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just a shame that it went that way.
Speaker 4: You retired from football, national preselection, victorian Legislative Council seat
Speaker 4: and then in twenty sixteen across across to the federal
Speaker 4: seat of Murray. Twenty extraordinary years in politics had he distilled.
Speaker 4: You know, it was even more dramatic and more Machiavelli
Speaker 4: than football.
Speaker 1: Well again, lucky in Australia, every bloke I meet, every
Speaker 1: person I meet, loves talking about footy and I love
Speaker 1: talking about politics. So it's amazing it's a very easy
Speaker 1: conversation starter. It doesn't matter whether they want to talk
Speaker 1: about foota where they want to talk about politics. That's
Speaker 1: very easy to get started with the conversation. Yeah, just
Speaker 1: a couple again, a couple of really strong phone calls
Speaker 1: from people that I knew. So they said you'd be
Speaker 1: good at this as a spot available, interested in this
Speaker 1: and said, well, I've always been interested in politics, never
Speaker 1: thought it'd be for me. Said well, you should ever
Speaker 1: think about this, and I wouldn't mind you having a
Speaker 1: coffee with this person and just give you a feel
Speaker 1: for the actual job. And it's amazing. As demanding as
Speaker 1: footy is, and as becoming such nearly becoming a science
Speaker 1: about how to handle people, how to play the game,
Speaker 1: how to control the footy, how to you know, move
Speaker 1: momentum and so forth, and it's become quite a thing.
Speaker 1: It is still just about footy, and it's amazing. When
Speaker 1: you go into politics, you realize, wow, there's just so
Speaker 1: much about our society that I had no idea about.
Speaker 1: So who funds schooling, who funds the education system and
Speaker 1: the universities, and who funds the roads and the different
Speaker 1: types of roads, and you know who looks after the cops.
Speaker 1: What's the difference between mean, what's the difference between a
Speaker 1: freeway and a highway and a main thoroughfare. And what's
Speaker 1: the difference between a private school and a government and
Speaker 1: a government school? And you go through it and you
Speaker 1: know who looks after the returned soldiers and who looks
Speaker 1: after the pensions, and then who looks after disabilities and
Speaker 1: all these you know, so to work out how society
Speaker 1: actually works, it's just like this never ending education. And
Speaker 1: I've just got that's a little bit of a drug
Speaker 1: in itself. You're forever learning stuff. And you know, we
Speaker 1: might be passing the law to do with broadcasting, and hey,
Speaker 1: who do I know in who do I know in
Speaker 1: the entertainment system that I can go and talk to?
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden you go and talk to
Speaker 1: you know, somebody that you know, and you're having a
Speaker 1: coffee and you realize this legislation is going to enable
Speaker 1: them to do this. Isn't this, but it's going to
Speaker 1: hinder them over here. It's going to be tough there.
Speaker 1: And then you walk away from that cup of coffee
Speaker 1: half and now and you've got an understanding. Now right now,
Speaker 1: I get it and whether it's kindergartens or does no
Speaker 1: matter what it is, it's amazing how little I, as
Speaker 1: a traditional footy coach knew about the world. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was a great opener. I've been able to
Speaker 1: realize this is how it really works.
Speaker 5: And you had to deal with some incredible personalities in
Speaker 5: that time. Malcolm Turnbull in there for a period of time, and.
Speaker 3: So you were standing up for Malcolm journal for a
Speaker 3: lot of that time. You even called for Tony Abbots
Speaker 3: through one of their many internice end battles.
Speaker 1: It's interesting I go into the Parliament and Malcolm Turnbull's
Speaker 1: my pride.
Speaker 2: What I'm endeavoring to do is to obviously.
Speaker 5: Ensure that the party is stable, to maintain the disibility
Speaker 5: of the Government of Australia.
Speaker 1: That's critically important to me. Just like you are a
Speaker 1: young player, he's your coach. He's your coach, so you
Speaker 1: have just a natural loyalty. And you know, it's true
Speaker 1: that Malcolm tombul had undermine Tony Abbott to achieve that position,
Speaker 1: but that wasn't during my time, so you know, and
Speaker 1: Tony was making things difficult for Malcolm Turnbull and I
Speaker 1: stood up one time and called it, called it out.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter. Doesn't mean that one's better than
Speaker 1: the other or one's worse than the other's just that
Speaker 1: means that they both wanted the same So.
Speaker 3: What happens when you say Tony should retire. What happens
Speaker 3: after that, in the next twenty four hours, Well.
Speaker 1: He grabs me as we're leaving the Parliament that night
Speaker 1: and wants to know, wants to know why I said
Speaker 1: what I said, And I told him, I said, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: you openly, you openly, you know, were contravening the you know,
Speaker 1: the party rules or the by you know, slagging off
Speaker 1: at the Prime Minister in front of the party room.
Speaker 1: And I said that's just not on. And he looked
Speaker 1: at me and he said fair enough. Yeah, So Tony
Speaker 1: hadn't looked at me and said yah, fair enough. He
Speaker 1: respect well, he said he's been called out, and I
Speaker 1: respected him even more for taking that view. So, but
Speaker 1: it's an interesting one, you know, like you know, they're out,
Speaker 1: they're our team, fully supportive. But it's a little bit
Speaker 1: like footy. You know, all the people in that house
Speaker 1: all want the same thing thing, It's got a different
Speaker 1: way of getting there. They want better education outcomes, they
Speaker 1: want better roads, they want better they want you know,
Speaker 1: the more thriving economy. They all want the same thing.
Speaker 1: They've just got a different view about how to get it.
Speaker 1: So it's not like half the team are just no good.
Speaker 1: Half the half the Parliament are no good and the
Speaker 1: other half are all brilliant. You know, everyone's just flawed
Speaker 1: as each other, but everyone's just brilliant as each other.
Speaker 1: And it is quite an interesting sort of mixture.
Speaker 5: Was it an interesting scenario with Michael McCormick and Barnaby
Speaker 5: Joyce and the lobbying from Barnaby there as well. How
Speaker 5: challenging period was.
Speaker 2: That for you?
Speaker 1: Well, pretty challenging, you know. Ultimately you get into these
Speaker 1: situations and within six months Barnaby has put me into
Speaker 1: a junior ministry and I'm thinking, right, this is good.
Speaker 1: And then Barnaby get himself in the Fair to Strive
Speaker 1: six months later, the whole range of accusations and he
Speaker 1: steps down, Michael steps up, and then see it feels
Speaker 1: that I'm too close to Barnaby, too class to Barras
Speaker 1: I need to put some of my own people in
Speaker 1: there so I get the I get the short shift
Speaker 1: because I'm supposedly too close to Barnaby. Then Barnaby spends
Speaker 1: a whole heap of time. I'm back as the party whip,
Speaker 1: and people that don't know about politics, a whip is
Speaker 1: like a team manager. Okay, so you're the team manager.
Speaker 1: You're not the coach, not the captain, you're not the
Speaker 1: star player, You're the team. Yeah, you're going to ring everybody,
Speaker 1: make sure things are going okay at home, and make
Speaker 1: sure that all the members of the party team are
Speaker 1: feeling has either been listened to?
Speaker 4: Is that they're all the physio on Tuesday?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it will turn up for the physio and don't
Speaker 1: and don't dodge the doctors. So as a team manager,
Speaker 1: I'm consistently now rebuffing Barnaby's move to try and unseen Michael.
Speaker 1: So for the guy who who has actually you know,
Speaker 1: sacked me as an assistant assistant minister has now I'm
Speaker 1: now I am Well, he's my he's my leader, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to be I'm going to be fully supportive
Speaker 1: of him. And then I get so it is an
Speaker 1: interesting one. If you want to be honorable, you want
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, sometimes shitty things happened to you,
Speaker 1: and I copped a few of those along the way.
Speaker 1: But again, you wouldn't have it any other way. You
Speaker 1: know you wouldn't, So you wouldn't. You wouldn't live with yourself.
Speaker 1: If you then undermine your own leader.
Speaker 3: You might be the first honorable man in Poltany because
Speaker 3: all the people you're talking about, they all stabbed backs
Speaker 3: and they all got to well Barnaby became Deputy Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: Well an interesting one, isn't it that Barnaby deep down
Speaker 1: would have thought in his own mind and probably right,
Speaker 1: the National Party are the junior party. What we need
Speaker 1: is a really strong, outspoken leader who gets it right
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time, and that's Barnaby. Michael is
Speaker 1: considered measured, softly spoken, and you know, we'll probably just
Speaker 1: creep ahead and creep ahead and it won't make any mistakes.
Speaker 1: So safe pair of hands versus someone who's outspoken, dynamic
Speaker 1: and crazy. So if Barnaby's prepared to if Barnaby generally
Speaker 1: thinks that he's the one that can take the party
Speaker 1: for it, he's he's committed to doing whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying no, no, no, no. There's a series of there's
Speaker 1: a series of protocols that need to be adhered to.
Speaker 1: But you know, I spoke to Barnaby this morning. I
Speaker 1: need him to do I need him to do some work,
Speaker 1: so I'll give him give him a call. And so
Speaker 1: this happened. This is thing's happening over here. The governments
Speaker 1: some funding away from this. We need to try and
Speaker 1: get it back. And he says, yep, I get it,
Speaker 1: and he will go to work on that one. And
Speaker 1: if I need to do similar with others. It's good
Speaker 1: to know that the phones are always there.
Speaker 4: Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3: And what do they say when you walk into the
Speaker 3: wind of the street that they say you can urge
Speaker 3: along or free? And how it ended or do they
Speaker 3: talk about your politics?
Speaker 1: Well, it's lovely. It's a lovely mixture of both. I'm
Speaker 1: very very lucky. I've got a great bunch of old
Speaker 1: footy mates that we play a lot of golf together.
Speaker 1: And then those footymates have got other mates. They're just
Speaker 1: ripping guys. So we've got a great punners club that
Speaker 1: play golf and we love life. And then I've got
Speaker 1: all my old state parliamentary team that I caught up
Speaker 1: with the other night because there was a Bowls night
Speaker 1: on at Parliament. If I have to go to Canberra,
Speaker 1: which I did three or four months ago, it's just
Speaker 1: very warm and open, and I can walk around to
Speaker 1: Richard Miles's office from the Opposition and have a good
Speaker 1: chat with him, and all the conversation there becomes about
Speaker 1: the cats we're talking. So I'm very lucky that the
Speaker 1: journey has led where it's led, you know, And I'm
Speaker 1: just in a very good place where people say, you know,
Speaker 1: you wish you're still in Parliament. Okay, listen, I loved
Speaker 1: every moment of the twenty years, but I'm glad I'm
Speaker 1: oud of it.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Sacked.
Speaker 5: This podcast is made possible thanks to subscribers to The
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