WEBVTT - The Media Show | 22 November 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Vince is the Media Show with Jack outing. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Hello and welcome to the Media Show. We've got a 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.719 big show tonight, including looking at the charges against broadcaster 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.720 Alan Jones. But first, it's only been a few weeks 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.599 since Donald Trump shattered the hopes and dreams of journalists 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.360 around the world by winning a democratic election. Bud one 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.760 what network, which honestly spent years referring to Trump as 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.120 a Nazi and a risk to democracy, Well, at least 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:29.760 now it's trying to be balanced. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.320 Over the past week, Joe and I have heard from 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.479 so many people, from political leaders to regular citizens, deeply 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:43.040 dismayed by several of President like Trump's cabinet selections, and 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.000 they are scared. Last Thursday, we expressed our own concerns 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.760 on this broadcast and even said we would appreciate the 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.280 opportunity to speak with the President elect himself. On Friday, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.120 we were given the opportunity to do just that. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.279 Cue they and outrage from their own left wing audience 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.360 and MSNBC's Morning Joe hosts didn't just speak to Trump. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.399 They went right into the belly of the beast. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.600 Joe and I went to mar A Lago to meet 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:18.200 personally with President Like Trump. It was the first time 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.959 we have seen him in seven years now. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.920 We talked about a lot of issues, including abortion, mass deportation, 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.440 threats of political retribution against political opponents and media outlets. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.080 We talked about that a good bit, and that's going 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.919 to come as no surprise to anybody who watches this show, 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.240 has watched it over the past year or over the 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.640 past decade, that we didn't see eye to eye on 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.720 a lot of issues, and we told him so. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.840 What we did agree on was to restar our communications. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.240 As if Trump would care whether he communicates with MSNBC 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.240 or not. But MSNBC viewers clearly cared, with The New 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.480 York Post reporting the less than an hour after this 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.040 segment aired, viewers a band of the network. Ratings for 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.600 the program dropped thirty eight percent in the twenty five 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.760 to fifty four demographic, which the Post also points out 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.720 as the demographic that advertises target and I wonder why 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.519 they turned off. You might think a journalist meeting the 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.400 president elect is a normal thing, and you'd be right. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.480 But the confusion, of course, is that this network has 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.280 spent years attacking Trump as a threat. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.800 The former and future president is moving quickly to fill 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.120 the clown car and round out his cabinet before he 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:35.440 changes his mind and fires them all. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.239 I mean, he's just going full Nazi here, full Fascis. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.239 But once you have radicalized one major party so that 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.639 those are the preferences of the people who adhere to 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.919 your party, the leaders that are changeable, and yes, trump 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.600 Ism is sometimes what we call it, Maga movement is 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.520 probably a better way to do it. But there is 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:57.600 an authoritarian movement inside Republican politics that isn't being bamboozled 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.240 by Trump. They are pushing Trumpet more and more extreme 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.360 because the more extreme things he says, the one thing, 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:05.400 the more they adhere to. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.200 Where one side stands for freedom while the other meets 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:14.280 the textbook definition of fascism, namely a far right dictatorial 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.519 regime like Hitler's Germany or Frankel's Spain or Mussolini's Italy. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:19.520 We've warned you. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.480 About Donald Trump's profound unfitness for office, from his theft 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.239 of classified documents and attempted insurrection to his clear cognitive 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:29.359 and physical decline. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.360 MSNBC viewers must be so confused. One minute, he's this 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.480 dictator who's going to steal America and the next. He 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.760 is an important source of communication for MSNBC, and we've 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.200 seen this play out across the media more broadly. Before 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.680 the election, White House press set Kareem Jean Pierre regularly 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.480 made inflammatory comments. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.960 Like this, how many times you have does January sixth, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.320 twenty twenty one. Is that is a fact what was 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.720 reported that happened on day by some of your colleagues. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.960 I mean, and we have at the same time denounced 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.920 political violence over and over, political rhetoric, over and over again. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.160 But last week, the man who everyone said was a 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:23.919 dangerous threat to democracy, all of a sudden, wasn't. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.200 This administration message to millions of Americans that they're going 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.680 to wake up day after the election if Trump won 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.680 and have their right stripped away, that democracy would crumble? 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.320 And President said today. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.040 We're going to be okay, So how do you swear it? 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.960 I can square that. I'm going to square that in 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.760 a way that hopefully makes sense, because I've been answering 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.520 this question multiple times. The American people made the decision 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.160 there was an election two nights ago. There was and 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.719 it was a free and fair election, and we respect 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:59.520 the election process. We do, and Americans spoke and so 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.760 the job of the president is to make sure we 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.760 respect that. The job of the president is to make 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:07.960 sure that we have a peaceful transfer of power. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.760 Well, joining me on the show today is skyn New's 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.200 host kayleb Bond and skyhu's contributor Damian Curry. Caleb, let's 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:24.000 start with you. I mean, this is essentially MSNBC realizing 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.320 that they can't be a mainstream network anymore. They've essentially 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.440 radicalized their audience, who turned off the channel the moment 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.160 they tried to have a conversation. 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:34.400 It's amazing, isn't it. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.040 I mean, you know, ordinarily I would say, and I 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.080 will to some degree in this circumstance, I will say 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.800 good on Joe Scarborough and his wife, who is his 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.960 co host, for actually going and talking to Trump, given 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.440 they obviously have a clear ideological opposition to him. And 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.520 that's what any good journalist should do. You ought to 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.479 deal with people from both sides. And you know, even 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.080 though viewers would know exactly what I think on most 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.560 things because I talk about them every night, I've always 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.040 prided myself on having contacts and relationships on both sides 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.120 of politics, because if you're not willing to understand the 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.480 other side, then how can you possibly argue in good 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.159 faith for what you believe in if you can't compare 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.680 and contrast with things. But when you go on as 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.560 you just showed, saying that he's Hitler, he's a fascist, 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.040 he's a dictator, this will be the end of democracy. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.600 There'll never be another election in the US. He's stealing 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.720 the joint. You'll have no rights to teter. Why would 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.560 you then want to go and sit down with that dude? Like, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.000 you can't blame the viewers for being confused that the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.080 guy they've been told is literally Hitler is now good. 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:42.160 To go and have a cup of tea with it. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.960 Mari Lago, welcome, Damien, let's bring you into this. I've 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.120 bean Caleb raises such a good point. I mean, honestly, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.520 it just reveals that it was political posturing. They're essentially 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.120 saying to their audience, well, we were kind of being 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.800 inflammatory and made all that up, So now let's treat 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:01.760 this a lot more normally than we were a few 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:02.360 weeks ago. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.200 Yeah, I mean, could they have any less credibile? I mean, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.720 they deserve to go broke, they deserve to have no ratings. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.960 They deserve to not exist or to cease to exist, 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.360 because it is absolutely appalling stuff that they've been doing 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.600 for four years. I mean, I do a podcast called 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.000 The Other Side because we want to sit down rationally 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.880 and talk sensibly about issues from a center right perspective 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.920 with people from the left. The problem, I think, and 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.280 the distinction we've got to make is between commentary that's 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:36.600 all emotionally driven and commentary that's rational. And MSNBC has 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.400 been debarking mad, irrational, radical left side of things for 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.840 quite a long time. And if you want to look 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.120 at it on that scale, you can't say Fox is 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.000 as irrational as MSNBC. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:47.360 It is. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:52.240 It's far more moderated, far more intelligent. CNBC would be 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.840 the far more intelligent side of the left in the media, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.400 but MSNBC is just operating on this sort of hysterical, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.120 hyper lot of nonsense. Now that is typical of the 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.200 left itself. I would say there is a tendency on 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.120 the left to be far more erratic and emotional than 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.440 on the right. But yeah, I mean, they've just been 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.760 doing this crazy stuff for so long, for so many years, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.400 that you know, their credibility has got to be completely 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.400 in the toilet by now right. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.200 Yeah, it's very funny and we had a bit of 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.360 a laugh when Joy Reid had the wall behind her. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.400 It's got Muzzolini and Hitler and she's comparing it to 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:27.920 try and we can lock. But there is a serious 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.680 element to this. And look, MSNBC is going to MSNBC, 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.840 that's what they do. But I want to get your 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.400 reaction to Kareem Jean Pierre. Who is That's an official role. 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.920 It's the press secretary. It's supposed to be the distribution 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.640 point from the White House, Caleb to the American people 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.400 and the rest of the world. And she's sitting there 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.160 characterizing this election, as you mentioned, potentially the last threat 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.280 to democracy. Brilliant of that Fox News report at a 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.439 caller on that saying well, hey, god, what happened to 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.840 this threat? Now you're sitting down and Joe Biden's having 0:08:58.880 --> 0:08:59.559 a cup of tea with. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:00.600 Him as they offer. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.760 I mean, Peter Doocey does great work at Fox News, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.000 or has done. We're calling out the Biden administration, particularly 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.120 when he faces KJP. But of course, the job of 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.839 the press secretary of the President of the United States 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.360 or any press secretary anywhere in the world for that matter, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.959 is to feed lines to the media. They send stuff 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.600 out there that they hope the media will pick up on. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.840 And of course most of the commercial media in the 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.800 United States and even the public media much like ours here, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.880 is left wing, so they dutifully pick up the lines 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:35.200 that get sent out by the press, Sex and the administration, etc. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.480 And they too end up being confused when the people 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.760 who've been saying that he's Hitler, and they've been then 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.160 repeating these lines suddenly say we're going to have a 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:44.640 peaceful and orderly. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.280 Transfer of power here. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.839 Everyone has been complicit in this fear mongering bit, the 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.400 media or the Biden administration because they thought they would 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.120 get away with it. I am convinced that Harris I 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.080 mean Biden for some weird reason, probably because his brains 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.480 turned to mashed potato. I think did think he could 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.319 beat Donald Trump before Harris usurped him. And I think 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.560 Harris was convinced she was going to beat Donald Trump. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.320 So they thought that running these lines about Hitler and 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.760 threat to democracy, et cetera was actually going to work, 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.000 and that they would never have to pay for it. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.280 In some way, they would never have to later justify 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.200 what they'd done because they were going to win anyway. 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.280 They're now in the difficult position of not having won, 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.559 and so they're backpedaling as fast as possible, which is 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:32.840 why I. 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.120 Think they're only because they've realized we got it wrong. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.120 Well exactly, they also realized that it didn't work, and 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.160 then so now they're trying to change change tach. If 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:42.719 it did work, I think we'd be seeing a lot 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.600 more of that rhetoric. But let's move on, because not 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:48.320 all media stars are prepared to kiss the ring. One 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.160 talk show host thinks the solution is to run away. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:57.120 Ellen DeGeneres is saying goodbye to the USA. Multiple outlets 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.679 are reporting that the comedian and wife Portia Rossy are 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.320 bidding farewell to the United States and are moving across 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.040 the pond to rural England. Reports say the couple was 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.600 driven to their decision after the election of Donald Trump. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.120 And pundits thought that these two multimillionaire stars fleeing a 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.959 Trump presidency was a sign of things to come. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.400 It does mark the beginning of a kind of cultural 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.120 brain drain, right when the best and brightest of your 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.440 population no longer feel like they want to stay here, 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.160 they go elsewhere. Then it starts to create kind of 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.640 an inevitability that other people that are following behind, whether 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.880 in this case it's celebrities and you know, actors, but 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.040 it also could be your brightest scientists, you know, your 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.960 brightest economic thinkers. And so I think it impacts the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.400 political climate in the way that it might hurt particular 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:46.280 sectors as well. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.000 Let's bring the panel back in Damian Love to get 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.880 your reaction to that. The best and brightest it's the scientists, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.280 the great thinkers of this world, such as Ellen DeGeneres. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.760 It's a terrible thing, isn't it. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.920 Porschit to ROSSI, Oh yeah, they're right up there with 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.800 the best thigures as sidus of the world. Well, this 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.920 just proves it. This is the arrogance, the absolute thought bubble, 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.280 isolated arrogance of these people, that they think anybody gives 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.840 a damn what they think, and that that we put 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.680 them on the totten pedestal like we might put a 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.200 brilliant signus or a brilliant high achieving business person for example. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.679 I'm only glad that they're going to England and not 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.840 coming down under. Back to porscheit to Rossi's home in 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.120 Melbourne and staying right away from US as far as 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.640 they possibly can. Nobody cares that these people are leaving America. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.680 But I think what the left have got to understand, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.960 and what the media have got to understand, is that 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.600 when you criticize Trump and you call him a Nazi 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.240 and you call him a fascist, and you make these 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:49.440 insanely hyperbolic, hysterical kinds of comments about somebody a political opponent, that. 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:50.320 You're actually insulting. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.040 You're actually making those comments about the people who vote 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.800 for him, and that in this is now the majority 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.960 of Americans who support him. So you can't run around 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.800 through life thinking that the rest of the world is 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.760 insane and you're not. You have to actually listen to 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.280 the other side and sit down and think about things 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.760 and think things through. And that's something that the left 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.640 don't seem to be doing post this election. They all 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.320 seem to be, you know, just being hysterical and assuming 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:20.320 still assuming everybody thinks like them and everybody hates Trump 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:21.760 in America. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:22.400 They do not. 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.040 Yeah, it's a really good point and I think it 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.160 goes as well to show that some of these journalists 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.160 really put so much weight into what celebrities are doing, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.760 and they genuinely think that Ellen de Generes leaving the country, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.559 Oh well, that's going to have this cascading domino effect. 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.840 It's absurd. But it also shows that they haven't learnt 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.679 their lesson from the election from having celebrities who, by 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.240 the way, have you seen their Californian mansion which is 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.520 going on the market. Oh, they could put a lot 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.160 of immigrants across the water on that property. Don't imagine 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.880 there's that many camping out there. But there is this 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.680 disconnect and they genuinely think that celebrities have this moral 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.720 influence that people care about. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.840 Yeah, well, and they can go on thinking that as 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:06.600 far as I'm concerned, because it just means it's good 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.520 for Donald Trump, right. But it was the election of 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.559 Trump and what it meant for celebrity I think was 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.720 a real cultural moment in the United States. 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.959 Because of course Harris was just. 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.920 You know, uninspiring, unimpressive, whatever, and so she felt she 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.520 had to surround herself with celebrities to give herself some level. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:27.320 Of star power. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.520 Donald Trump, on the other hand, is the ultimate celebrity. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:35.080 He is a charismatic politician. Most people know him before 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.240 politics from reality television. Right, he is a celebrity himself. 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.800 He can carry himself, he has personality. Harris was trying 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.800 to make up for that. Now people don't want to 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.840 be lectured by someone else. They want to hear from 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.240 the man or woman. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:51.880 Who is trying to sell the message. 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.200 That's what Trump could do that Harris could not, And 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:56.520 so they still haven't learned that. 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.160 They're still hanging on to it as though it works. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.000 But I actually to give some credit to Ellen DeGeneres, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.960 because how many celebrities have we heard say, oh, if 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.680 Donald Trump gets elected, I. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:07.360 Am leaving the youth. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:08.600 They never follow through. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.240 Every single one of them is still living there. Well, 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.520 at least Ellen has said I'm going to pack up 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:13.960 and leave. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.160 I expect what's happened with her is that her career 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.280 ended a couple of years ago, and she's realized that 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.080 with the election of Donald Trump. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.880 Her career is even moreover. So she may as well 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:26.520 go somewhere else and good on her. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.120 I hope she has a lovely life in England, where 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.160 by the way, she may have some trouble with the 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.560 people who live over there, because I believe she's good 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.200 friends with Megan Markle and Prince Harry. I'm not sure 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.840 how well that'll go down with the people of the UK. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.480 Well said, well, we're going to take a quick break, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.920 but when we return inside the Alan Jones criminal charges. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.280 Welcome back now to the biggest story of the week, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.800 the arrest of broadcaster Alan Jones of allegations he indecently 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.720 assaulted or sexually touched a number of young men. And 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.320 these allegations are before the courts. There's very little that 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.600 we can say that won't interfere in that process playing out. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.400 But this was a story driven by journalism, more specifically 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.080 a capemcclimb on investigation and her paper, The Sydney Morning 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.920 Herald was threatened with lawsuits at the time, but they 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.560 did not budge and the police started off their press 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.560 conference this week praising investigators, but when challenged on why 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.640 it took so long to complete the investigation, credit had 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:27.440 to go to the media. 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:34.160 The reports in The Herald and the h did result 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.560 in victims coming forward and the creation of Strikeforce Bonovan. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.440 But this information and a number of witnesses have been 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:50.560 assisting police over the years. Bonovan and the energy that 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.960 was generated out of those newspaper articles have provided the 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.880 ability for police to put these matters before the court. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.280 And here is where these stories get very difficul to 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.840 talk about. There wouldn't be chargers or alleged victims coming 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.440 forward in volume without the media. But it is also fair, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.840 a fair question to ask the police, why did it 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.880 take journalists to push this rather than the police, who, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.240 by their own admission in that clip, knew about the 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:24.840 allegations for years. Caleb, Obviously it's before the courts, so 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.800 we're going to be very careful how we talk about it. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.560 But it was a journalist led story, and there is 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.399 this disconnect so the police saying what we were talking 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.800 to people for several years about it. It never manifested 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.919 in charges, It never manifested in an investigation, particularly of 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.760 the likes we've seen. It kind of shows that the 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.800 role that the journalists play. But maybe now is the 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.240 time for everyone to step back and let that process 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:50.760 play out. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:51.160 Yeah. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.960 Correct, And I think even quite a few people from 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.120 the Lift this week in Quintin Dempster from the ABC 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.320 and others. Grace Tame even came out to see if 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.840 you want justice to be done here, don't talk about it. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.880 Because because a lot of people who are ideologically opposed 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.919 in particular to Alan Jones, have been very quick to 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.600 come out and say that he is guilty. Well, if 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.320 you actually want any sort of conviction to possibly be 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.600 achieved in this case, or for a trial to be 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.080 run in a fair manor you can't go around saying 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.360 those sort of things. I suspect in cases like this 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.920 where the police may well have been investigating a matter 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.480 for a number of years, when you're talking about what 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.600 is largely cases of circumstantial evidence, or you might put 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.160 it as a he said, she said case, you need 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.359 enough evidence to actually go to court and try to 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.040 prosecute someone, and so the media reporting these things will 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.680 naturally encourage people to come forward, and that then allows 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.359 the police to build a case that they could potentially 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:50.879 go and try to proceed. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.240 It is an awkward look, though, because you have journalists 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.679 such as say like Hedley Thomas, who specializes in that 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.639 podcast podcast format where he looks at historical things that 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.240 have happened, cases that will never close. I've got a 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.399 feel it's an awkward look for the police. You have 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.000 a journalist on the front page say you've got in 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.240 decent assault and decent assault and decent assault. Know that 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.920 you were talking to an alleged victim but weren't able 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.639 to get it over line yet Kate McClymont, could she 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.960 found the victim she spoke to the people that investigation disconnected. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:24.920 It's not a great look for the cops, I. 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:25.400 Think, yeah. 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.399 And of course the thing with the media is that 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.639 you're dealing with defamation law. Now, defamation law, depending on 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.520 who you ask, is either perfect. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.600 For these kinds of circumstances or bad. 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.160 Some will say that almost anyone who runs a defamation 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:40.800 case in this country wins it. 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.800 But also the burden of proof. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.080 On a defot case is very different to a criminal one. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.080 It's not beyond reasonable doubt. It's simply on the balance 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.440 of probabilities, which of course played out in the Delerim 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.960 and saga right, And it ends up being murky sort 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.520 of territory between what is a criminal burden of proof 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.400 and what is a civil burden of proof. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.159 Well, it's true, it's a Bruce esquestion as well. And Damien, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.040 I'd love to bring you in. What are your thoughts 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.880 on I guess the way that the media in general 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.240 is handling this do you think that there has been 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.960 a bit more caution than perhaps we have seen in 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.480 the past, I guess. And the Bruce Lherman saga with 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:23.120 Britney Higgins, the anonymity was forfeited by Britney Higgins, which 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.720 complicated the reporting. But in this situation, I think that 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.159 most people have been very respectful in terms of not 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.240 saying either way whether they think that it's guilt or 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.879 whether they think that the charges are a false What 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.080 do you make of how it's played out? 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.400 Yeah, look, I think in the media generally it's been 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.280 pretty good and pretty well handled. Obviously, the victims deserve 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.000