1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:14,041 Speaker 1: Appogie Production. Welcome back everyone. I'm sitting here with Joanie 2 00:00:14,201 --> 00:00:18,201 Speaker 1: here in Brisbane. Hello yet again, I'm back episode three 3 00:00:18,961 --> 00:00:22,081 Speaker 1: and we just getting now Mojo, aren't we? Joy Like? 4 00:00:22,281 --> 00:00:25,241 Speaker 1: This is not natural about this episode by telling you 5 00:00:25,361 --> 00:00:30,081 Speaker 1: all about a story and share with you why words 6 00:00:30,161 --> 00:00:36,401 Speaker 1: are important and what your words say can impact somebody else. 7 00:00:36,441 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of this happened to me through 8 00:00:38,601 --> 00:00:42,761 Speaker 1: the journey. My brother took his own life, and you know, 9 00:00:42,961 --> 00:00:46,601 Speaker 1: I think the catalyst for him doing that was the 10 00:00:46,641 --> 00:00:50,041 Speaker 1: police telling us that they'd located my mother and she 11 00:00:50,081 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: didn't want anything to do with us, essentially, and that 12 00:00:52,561 --> 00:00:55,601 Speaker 1: was proven at the inquest to be incorrect. No one 13 00:00:55,641 --> 00:00:58,161 Speaker 1: actually has ever sighted my mum or spoken to her 14 00:00:58,281 --> 00:01:03,401 Speaker 1: identified her. So not so long after Mum went missing, 15 00:01:04,281 --> 00:01:07,721 Speaker 1: a friend of mine engage with a psychic who had 16 00:01:07,721 --> 00:01:10,041 Speaker 1: done a very accurate reading for her sister in law. 17 00:01:10,081 --> 00:01:12,841 Speaker 1: Her parents had been in a car accident in New Zealand, 18 00:01:13,081 --> 00:01:16,041 Speaker 1: and this psychic was able to tell her exactly what 19 00:01:16,081 --> 00:01:19,721 Speaker 1: happened and sadly her dad passed away in that accident. 20 00:01:19,801 --> 00:01:22,601 Speaker 1: And my friend was telling me about this and how 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: accurate this woman was, and I said, do you think 22 00:01:24,881 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: that she would help me do a reading, or we're desperate. 23 00:01:29,961 --> 00:01:32,561 Speaker 1: At this point, I'm like, I don't know what's happened. 24 00:01:33,881 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: I feel. It was around two thousand and four, so 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: mom had been missing for about seven years. Anyway, she 26 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,321 Speaker 1: went and asked her if she would talk to me, 27 00:01:42,401 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: and she said, look, I don't do it. It's not 28 00:01:44,041 --> 00:01:46,481 Speaker 1: what I do. It's just something that I have in me. 29 00:01:47,161 --> 00:01:49,601 Speaker 1: But I'm happy to write her a letter about what 30 00:01:49,641 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: I feel and what I see. And so she wrote 31 00:01:52,681 --> 00:01:56,561 Speaker 1: to me a letter and she told me that my 32 00:01:56,641 --> 00:02:01,081 Speaker 1: mum was alive and living in Mare. Now. Mare is 33 00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:05,321 Speaker 1: situated about six hours northwest of Byron Bay, New South Wales, 34 00:02:06,241 --> 00:02:08,721 Speaker 1: so I knew about the Byron Bay connection at that point. 35 00:02:08,801 --> 00:02:12,281 Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, we're talking in the same versifity. 36 00:02:12,561 --> 00:02:15,481 Speaker 1: We're not talking Western Australia or Tasmania. We're all in 37 00:02:15,481 --> 00:02:19,521 Speaker 1: that same pocket, which seems to be the case with 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: my mum's situation. So she wrote that my mom's house 39 00:02:24,881 --> 00:02:27,641 Speaker 1: was situated on the low side of the road, just 40 00:02:27,721 --> 00:02:30,841 Speaker 1: outside town and there's a dip in the road. She 41 00:02:30,921 --> 00:02:33,041 Speaker 1: wrote that my mum would sit and drink cups of 42 00:02:33,081 --> 00:02:37,441 Speaker 1: tea whilst watching the mist roll over the fields. One 43 00:02:37,481 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: of my mom's favorite movies was Wuthering Heights. And if 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: my brother I'm not pretty Cliff so low, I shouldn't 45 00:02:46,281 --> 00:02:49,201 Speaker 1: have thought of it. It would agree to me to 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:55,201 Speaker 1: marry Heathcliffe now. So I imagine my mom's sitting there, 47 00:02:55,281 --> 00:02:57,361 Speaker 1: drinking her cups of tea as she did, and a 48 00:02:57,361 --> 00:03:02,081 Speaker 1: pretty little teacup waiting for her Heathcliff. The lady warned 49 00:03:02,121 --> 00:03:04,881 Speaker 1: me in the letter not to try and look for 50 00:03:04,881 --> 00:03:08,921 Speaker 1: her and said it would be detrimental to my children. 51 00:03:09,441 --> 00:03:11,761 Speaker 1: That's very hard to hear, and I was more confused 52 00:03:11,761 --> 00:03:15,361 Speaker 1: than comforted and told the police what she had told me. 53 00:03:16,721 --> 00:03:22,721 Speaker 1: That's when the nightmare started. A reoccurring dream I had 54 00:03:22,761 --> 00:03:25,481 Speaker 1: on repeat for years where Chris and I drove to Maurie. 55 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: We found a house just outside of town where there 56 00:03:28,841 --> 00:03:31,481 Speaker 1: was a dip in the road and it had a big, 57 00:03:31,561 --> 00:03:34,681 Speaker 1: long concrete footpath that went up to the front door. 58 00:03:36,201 --> 00:03:40,881 Speaker 1: And in the dream, I have Darcy on my hip 59 00:03:41,081 --> 00:03:45,441 Speaker 1: as a baby, and I'm holding Ella's hand, who is three. 60 00:03:46,201 --> 00:03:48,241 Speaker 1: Chris is waiting in the car. He's got the window down. 61 00:03:48,281 --> 00:03:52,521 Speaker 1: As I'm walking up to the door, I knock on 62 00:03:52,561 --> 00:03:56,641 Speaker 1: the door and my mum opens the door and she 63 00:03:56,761 --> 00:04:02,681 Speaker 1: closes the door in my face, doesn't say anything, and 64 00:04:03,081 --> 00:04:05,041 Speaker 1: I turn around and I walk back up to Cree 65 00:04:05,321 --> 00:04:07,281 Speaker 1: and she opens the door and she shoots me into 66 00:04:07,321 --> 00:04:15,001 Speaker 1: that while I'm holding my children. So to me, that 67 00:04:15,241 --> 00:04:19,401 Speaker 1: was the detriment for me finding my mum, detriment to 68 00:04:19,481 --> 00:04:24,121 Speaker 1: my children, and that haunted me for years. I could 69 00:04:24,161 --> 00:04:27,001 Speaker 1: not get that dream out of my head. I even 70 00:04:27,161 --> 00:04:30,801 Speaker 1: rang more a police and said, this is what I've 71 00:04:30,841 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: been told, and he goes, oh, well, there is a 72 00:04:33,481 --> 00:04:37,801 Speaker 1: dip in the road outside of town, so I've never 73 00:04:37,921 --> 00:04:41,681 Speaker 1: driven there. I cannot bring myself to do that, probably 74 00:04:41,721 --> 00:04:45,001 Speaker 1: because I'm dramatized by the dream that im on to repeat. 75 00:04:45,761 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: But these are problems that you have, and this is 76 00:04:48,481 --> 00:04:52,081 Speaker 1: sort of part of your subconscious self trying to process 77 00:04:52,121 --> 00:04:54,641 Speaker 1: and work out what does that mean exactly and what 78 00:04:54,681 --> 00:04:58,081 Speaker 1: are you supposed to do with that information. So while 79 00:04:58,121 --> 00:05:01,881 Speaker 1: I appreciate people trying to help and give you the information, 80 00:05:02,841 --> 00:05:06,561 Speaker 1: that whole looking for her and having consequence was really 81 00:05:06,601 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: hard for me. Like that was a very hard thing 82 00:05:09,561 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: for me because I took it pretty literally, like, you know, 83 00:05:11,961 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: something might happen if I go digging and I'll tell 84 00:05:15,241 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: you even not so long ago, I was worried about 85 00:05:19,201 --> 00:05:21,721 Speaker 1: walking out of my front of my house. Yes, and 86 00:05:22,081 --> 00:05:24,241 Speaker 1: you know that because I was panicking at some page. 87 00:05:24,401 --> 00:05:27,041 Speaker 1: So I don't know what could happen here, like I'm 88 00:05:27,041 --> 00:05:30,841 Speaker 1: poking the bear and it's left for me. And when 89 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,561 Speaker 1: I mentioned it to the detective on the case, she 90 00:05:33,641 --> 00:05:35,521 Speaker 1: turned around and said to me, oh, well, don't worry, 91 00:05:35,521 --> 00:05:38,841 Speaker 1: we've got people here. And I went, not close and 92 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,161 Speaker 1: not out the front of my house. You don't. So 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,161 Speaker 1: there were times when I have been quite worried about myself. 94 00:05:46,201 --> 00:05:49,601 Speaker 1: And I'm sure there are other people in my same circumstances, 95 00:05:49,641 --> 00:05:53,601 Speaker 1: because let's face it, if someone's gone missing and there's 96 00:05:53,641 --> 00:05:58,081 Speaker 1: no answer, there's usually probably something that's gone wrong, and 97 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: you know who knows, Like I won't name them, but 98 00:06:00,841 --> 00:06:03,281 Speaker 1: there's plenty of cases that I know that are happening 99 00:06:03,281 --> 00:06:06,601 Speaker 1: even right now, where you might not want to poke 100 00:06:06,641 --> 00:06:10,881 Speaker 1: the bear. I have a fear. I don't know. I 101 00:06:10,961 --> 00:06:13,841 Speaker 1: kept thinking that someone might just shoot me, Like I 102 00:06:13,841 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: will just walk down my stairs and someone will shoot 103 00:06:15,801 --> 00:06:20,361 Speaker 1: me to shut me up. And that's pretty horrifying, to 104 00:06:20,401 --> 00:06:22,321 Speaker 1: be honest, And I'm scared even telling you that, because 105 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,561 Speaker 1: I don't really want to put that into the universe. 106 00:06:25,601 --> 00:06:28,081 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I'm the daughter trying 107 00:06:28,121 --> 00:06:31,201 Speaker 1: to find my mum. I'm not trying to bring problems 108 00:06:31,201 --> 00:06:34,721 Speaker 1: to other people or cause issues for others. But if 109 00:06:34,761 --> 00:06:38,921 Speaker 1: someone's done something wrong, who's fighting for mom, who's fighting 110 00:06:38,921 --> 00:06:41,001 Speaker 1: for her? She has no voice, She's not here to 111 00:06:41,041 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: tell us what happened. And unfortunately that means I have 112 00:06:44,561 --> 00:06:47,401 Speaker 1: to suck it up and be brave and actually go 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: and do the things that terrify me. That includes doing podcasts, 114 00:06:51,561 --> 00:06:53,921 Speaker 1: you know, and talking about it openly and honestly, and 115 00:06:53,961 --> 00:06:58,801 Speaker 1: having everyone judge and jury what's happened and how why 116 00:06:58,801 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm here and what I'm doing, so I'll never forget. 117 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,001 Speaker 2: When I listened to one of the episodes of The 118 00:07:04,041 --> 00:07:09,521 Speaker 2: Lady Vanishes and I heard Finnan Ramichal, who was the 119 00:07:09,601 --> 00:07:13,441 Speaker 2: real Ramichal, not the one in Australia that took his identity. 120 00:07:13,921 --> 00:07:16,841 Speaker 2: So I'm sitting there, I'm listening to this episode and 121 00:07:16,881 --> 00:07:21,241 Speaker 2: I'm hearing this man with a very thick Luxembourgish accent, 122 00:07:22,201 --> 00:07:25,521 Speaker 2: French accent, German accent saying. 123 00:07:26,241 --> 00:07:30,801 Speaker 1: Give me Sally Leiden, give me Sally Leiden's address. Where 124 00:07:30,801 --> 00:07:35,641 Speaker 1: does Sally Leiden live, Give me the name of details 125 00:07:35,641 --> 00:07:39,401 Speaker 1: of give me her phone number. 126 00:07:39,281 --> 00:07:42,801 Speaker 2: Give me her address. On repeat, he kept on repeating 127 00:07:42,841 --> 00:07:43,601 Speaker 2: that constantly. 128 00:07:44,081 --> 00:07:48,801 Speaker 3: I want to contact Shellie Leighton. Give me the address 129 00:07:49,041 --> 00:07:52,921 Speaker 3: of Shellie Leiden, address and email and all you have 130 00:07:53,161 --> 00:07:54,241 Speaker 3: and telephone number. 131 00:07:55,721 --> 00:07:59,641 Speaker 2: So even way back then, I felt that that was 132 00:08:00,281 --> 00:08:01,681 Speaker 2: again a bit of a moment. 133 00:08:01,761 --> 00:08:05,721 Speaker 1: I found that quite confronting, and I did Allison had 134 00:08:05,761 --> 00:08:07,841 Speaker 1: rung him and didn't know that that was happening. So 135 00:08:08,441 --> 00:08:10,561 Speaker 1: when everyone else is listening to it for the first time, 136 00:08:10,641 --> 00:08:12,681 Speaker 1: I was listening to it for the first time as well. 137 00:08:13,041 --> 00:08:16,881 Speaker 1: So at the Sydney show, Chris and Adele from Search 138 00:08:16,881 --> 00:08:20,361 Speaker 1: Shog Sydney came along. They're in the uniform and so 139 00:08:20,841 --> 00:08:23,121 Speaker 1: people knew who they were, and I think at that 140 00:08:23,201 --> 00:08:26,681 Speaker 1: point they also met a lovely lady named Mindy and 141 00:08:26,841 --> 00:08:29,841 Speaker 1: she's now working on the Deer Rechelle podcast. So there's 142 00:08:29,881 --> 00:08:33,361 Speaker 1: lots of connectors through this space when people come together 143 00:08:33,441 --> 00:08:36,001 Speaker 1: and help each other. And I was talking to them 144 00:08:36,081 --> 00:08:39,761 Speaker 1: about a situation where a phone call had been made 145 00:08:39,761 --> 00:08:43,921 Speaker 1: to crime stoppers very very early on, and this is 146 00:08:44,001 --> 00:08:47,241 Speaker 1: way before any media or anybody really knew about my 147 00:08:47,321 --> 00:08:51,081 Speaker 1: mum's case and a guy had rung. What he actually 148 00:08:51,081 --> 00:08:53,881 Speaker 1: says in the report is that a woman by the 149 00:08:53,961 --> 00:08:56,361 Speaker 1: name of Marion who went missing from northern New South 150 00:08:56,401 --> 00:09:01,001 Speaker 1: Wales is buried near the bike track on Niagara Street 151 00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:05,521 Speaker 1: in Armadale. And when I read the report that was 152 00:09:05,521 --> 00:09:08,481 Speaker 1: in the brief of evidence, I was quite disturbed by 153 00:09:08,481 --> 00:09:12,481 Speaker 1: the fact that the first initial officers from Armidale didn't 154 00:09:12,481 --> 00:09:15,281 Speaker 1: do a search. They just went and did a door 155 00:09:15,321 --> 00:09:20,601 Speaker 1: knock on an address which was noted which will keep confidential, 156 00:09:21,441 --> 00:09:25,441 Speaker 1: and they spoke to a gentleman who had been named 157 00:09:25,681 --> 00:09:29,321 Speaker 1: as the person and an interesting name. It's sort of 158 00:09:29,361 --> 00:09:33,081 Speaker 1: like an abbreviation if I can sort of use not 159 00:09:33,201 --> 00:09:35,081 Speaker 1: the real name that we've got because I want to 160 00:09:35,161 --> 00:09:38,441 Speaker 1: keep that identity private for the person. But let's say 161 00:09:38,521 --> 00:09:42,001 Speaker 1: Daniel and someone calling him Danny, right, so that kind 162 00:09:42,041 --> 00:09:45,441 Speaker 1: of scenario. Anyway, they went to the house and spoke 163 00:09:45,481 --> 00:09:48,641 Speaker 1: to this man. He's like, well, he has a home 164 00:09:48,721 --> 00:09:51,721 Speaker 1: line that has restrictions on it so he can't ring out, 165 00:09:51,721 --> 00:09:53,521 Speaker 1: but he can only receive calls, so it couldn't have 166 00:09:53,561 --> 00:09:56,481 Speaker 1: possibly been him who made the one eight hundred call 167 00:09:56,601 --> 00:09:59,561 Speaker 1: to crime Stoppers and they sort of just took that 168 00:09:59,641 --> 00:10:03,521 Speaker 1: and went Okay, then no problem, and I think the 169 00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:06,201 Speaker 1: notation says, oh, well, there was nothing really to follow 170 00:10:06,281 --> 00:10:09,801 Speaker 1: up on, so no further action required at that point. 171 00:10:09,961 --> 00:10:13,201 Speaker 1: And they linked it to my mum because my mum's 172 00:10:13,281 --> 00:10:15,161 Speaker 1: name was Marian and she was no one to be 173 00:10:15,241 --> 00:10:18,121 Speaker 1: missing from northern New South Wales. But that was about 174 00:10:18,161 --> 00:10:21,361 Speaker 1: the end of it. And then when Gary Sheen took over, 175 00:10:21,601 --> 00:10:25,241 Speaker 1: he actually did another pull up of that and said 176 00:10:25,241 --> 00:10:27,921 Speaker 1: to me, I've found this in the file. I've asked 177 00:10:27,921 --> 00:10:29,681 Speaker 1: my commander if I can go out and do a 178 00:10:29,721 --> 00:10:33,681 Speaker 1: search with a Cadava dog. And this is where it 179 00:10:33,721 --> 00:10:36,161 Speaker 1: gets a bit messy, because he told me that he 180 00:10:36,201 --> 00:10:39,881 Speaker 1: went out for a day and it rained and they 181 00:10:39,921 --> 00:10:43,441 Speaker 1: found nothing. And then when Channel seven interviewed him, he 182 00:10:43,561 --> 00:10:46,881 Speaker 1: said they'd gone out for two days and had ses 183 00:10:46,961 --> 00:10:49,921 Speaker 1: helping them, and then in another report says it was 184 00:10:49,921 --> 00:10:52,561 Speaker 1: out for three days. So I'm like, okay, well, was 185 00:10:52,561 --> 00:10:54,121 Speaker 1: it one day, two days or three days that you 186 00:10:54,161 --> 00:10:56,761 Speaker 1: went searching? It was very unclear to me, and so 187 00:10:56,841 --> 00:10:59,601 Speaker 1: I think that was probably the drive for me to go. 188 00:10:59,801 --> 00:11:02,321 Speaker 1: If my mum's body is there, I want to go 189 00:11:02,361 --> 00:11:06,281 Speaker 1: and investigate it myself. So that sort of probed me 190 00:11:06,441 --> 00:11:09,241 Speaker 1: into the idea of if I could make that happen, 191 00:11:09,441 --> 00:11:12,321 Speaker 1: that would be amazing. And when I was talking to 192 00:11:12,361 --> 00:11:15,041 Speaker 1: Chris and Adell about it, they were doing a search 193 00:11:15,081 --> 00:11:18,281 Speaker 1: for another woman in Queensland because they're based in Sydney, 194 00:11:18,841 --> 00:11:21,681 Speaker 1: and being that this was in Armadale, they were suggesting 195 00:11:21,721 --> 00:11:24,361 Speaker 1: that maybe they could stop on the way home on 196 00:11:24,401 --> 00:11:26,761 Speaker 1: their way back and we could do a dog search there. 197 00:11:27,121 --> 00:11:30,561 Speaker 1: So that's how that whole thing sort of started. And 198 00:11:30,801 --> 00:11:34,001 Speaker 1: I asked Journey again if you would come with me, 199 00:11:34,241 --> 00:11:37,121 Speaker 1: and she said yes, of course. So you know, that 200 00:11:37,201 --> 00:11:40,601 Speaker 1: was something that we were doing in the background. Nobody knew, who, 201 00:11:40,721 --> 00:11:42,841 Speaker 1: had no media following us. We just did it in 202 00:11:42,881 --> 00:11:45,801 Speaker 1: our own time, and I was trying to process it, 203 00:11:45,841 --> 00:11:47,961 Speaker 1: and Chris Darcy actually turned around and said to me, 204 00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:50,841 Speaker 1: he goes, family don't usually do this. Now. This is 205 00:11:50,881 --> 00:11:53,801 Speaker 1: not normal that you are here looking for your mother's body. 206 00:11:54,041 --> 00:11:56,041 Speaker 1: This is not normal, And I said, well, I don't 207 00:11:56,041 --> 00:11:58,881 Speaker 1: think I'm a normal person, but especially when it comes 208 00:11:58,921 --> 00:12:01,601 Speaker 1: to this. But I just for myself, I needed to 209 00:12:01,641 --> 00:12:03,561 Speaker 1: do it to know that I can put it to 210 00:12:03,641 --> 00:12:06,161 Speaker 1: rest and know we've done the job properly. Well, I 211 00:12:06,361 --> 00:12:09,201 Speaker 1: just racked up at my local shopping center where there's 212 00:12:09,241 --> 00:12:11,721 Speaker 1: a kmart. I'm going to go in and see if 213 00:12:11,761 --> 00:12:15,601 Speaker 1: I can purchase a high viz vest for me and 214 00:12:15,641 --> 00:12:19,241 Speaker 1: one for Chris. As tomorrow morning at four am, will 215 00:12:19,241 --> 00:12:22,881 Speaker 1: be making our way down to Armadale to do a 216 00:12:22,961 --> 00:12:27,721 Speaker 1: search with search dog Sydney, and Joanie is joining us 217 00:12:27,761 --> 00:12:30,161 Speaker 1: as well, so she's just about to jump on a 218 00:12:30,161 --> 00:12:33,041 Speaker 1: flight heading up to Newcastle where she'll stay the night, 219 00:12:33,081 --> 00:12:36,081 Speaker 1: and then she's going to drive from Newcastle up to 220 00:12:36,481 --> 00:12:38,721 Speaker 1: Armadale and meet us there in the morning. I know 221 00:12:38,801 --> 00:12:41,721 Speaker 1: Chris and Adele and the team with their dogs have 222 00:12:41,841 --> 00:12:45,081 Speaker 1: been out there already today and pop the drone up 223 00:12:45,121 --> 00:12:47,321 Speaker 1: to get lots of images and map out where we're 224 00:12:47,361 --> 00:12:51,681 Speaker 1: going to be searching tomorrow and the next day. Mix 225 00:12:51,721 --> 00:12:54,881 Speaker 1: of emotions as I start this next part of the 226 00:12:54,961 --> 00:13:00,681 Speaker 1: journey to find my mum and see if that crime 227 00:13:00,681 --> 00:13:05,481 Speaker 1: stop is call that came in to the Armadale area 228 00:13:05,721 --> 00:13:09,001 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight has any legs and so 229 00:13:09,161 --> 00:13:12,201 Speaker 1: began a crazy journey. So for me and Chris, it's 230 00:13:12,401 --> 00:13:14,521 Speaker 1: about a six hour drive and we were trying to 231 00:13:14,561 --> 00:13:17,961 Speaker 1: aim to be in Armadale by about ten o'clock being realistic, 232 00:13:18,001 --> 00:13:21,281 Speaker 1: so I think we were up very early, around quarter 233 00:13:21,401 --> 00:13:24,121 Speaker 1: to four in the morning. Chris is just filling up 234 00:13:24,241 --> 00:13:27,001 Speaker 1: the car withst and petrol as we make our way 235 00:13:27,001 --> 00:13:30,441 Speaker 1: down to Armadale. I can tell by the bags onto 236 00:13:30,481 --> 00:13:34,721 Speaker 1: my eyes. I have not slept at all last night, 237 00:13:34,921 --> 00:13:40,041 Speaker 1: and I woke up at about twenty past three. I 238 00:13:40,081 --> 00:13:42,881 Speaker 1: had a really bad vertigo and I was very wobbly. 239 00:13:43,041 --> 00:13:46,041 Speaker 1: Had to hold on it's everything while I went to 240 00:13:46,081 --> 00:13:51,881 Speaker 1: the bathroom. I'm feeling quite nauseous right now, actually don't 241 00:13:51,921 --> 00:13:55,321 Speaker 1: feel very well. I'm not sure I feel like driving 242 00:13:55,361 --> 00:13:59,001 Speaker 1: for the next six hours. But anyway, we'll see how 243 00:13:59,041 --> 00:14:01,081 Speaker 1: we go and try and have a sleep here. Hopefully 244 00:14:01,161 --> 00:14:04,841 Speaker 1: the nausea goes away. So we just stopped to go 245 00:14:04,881 --> 00:14:07,441 Speaker 1: to the bathroom. When I got into the bathroom, there 246 00:14:07,441 --> 00:14:09,201 Speaker 1: was a young girl in the toilet who had just 247 00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:11,921 Speaker 1: come out. There was another lady who was bending over 248 00:14:11,961 --> 00:14:15,081 Speaker 1: the toilet when I walked in there. Anyway, I've gone 249 00:14:15,161 --> 00:14:18,041 Speaker 1: in closed to my cubicle door and I've tried to 250 00:14:18,081 --> 00:14:20,961 Speaker 1: push the toilet rob containing back up into the wall 251 00:14:21,601 --> 00:14:24,561 Speaker 1: and it made quite a loud bang, and this woman 252 00:14:24,641 --> 00:14:27,921 Speaker 1: started having a go at This young girl and started 253 00:14:28,001 --> 00:14:31,241 Speaker 1: saying I've got a I've got a gun. I've got 254 00:14:31,241 --> 00:14:34,401 Speaker 1: a gun that's in the car. The police think I'm 255 00:14:34,441 --> 00:14:38,001 Speaker 1: going to shoot somebody. My heart does not need this 256 00:14:38,041 --> 00:14:41,841 Speaker 1: sort of thing in the middle the morning as I'm 257 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:46,121 Speaker 1: on my way to Armadale. That was a moment in itself. 258 00:14:46,161 --> 00:14:47,561 Speaker 1: I've thought I was going to have a heart attack, 259 00:14:47,921 --> 00:14:51,481 Speaker 1: but anyway, I survived once again. And you know, we 260 00:14:51,481 --> 00:14:53,561 Speaker 1: saw the sunrise come up and we were just on 261 00:14:53,641 --> 00:14:57,281 Speaker 1: a mission to find mum. And I don't know, it 262 00:14:57,321 --> 00:14:59,801 Speaker 1: was a weird feeling as I approached it, but I 263 00:15:00,121 --> 00:15:02,641 Speaker 1: sort of just seemed to remove myself from the reality 264 00:15:02,641 --> 00:15:04,481 Speaker 1: of what I'm actually doing and just put my cap 265 00:15:04,521 --> 00:15:07,521 Speaker 1: on and go on a search mission. I'm not the daughter. 266 00:15:07,721 --> 00:15:10,041 Speaker 1: I'm just on a search mission to find the answers. 267 00:15:10,121 --> 00:15:12,201 Speaker 1: And we were a little bit late. It took us 268 00:15:12,201 --> 00:15:14,321 Speaker 1: a bit longer to get there than we thought. 269 00:15:14,481 --> 00:15:19,641 Speaker 2: So meanwhile, I'm flying from Victoria up to Newcastle and 270 00:15:19,681 --> 00:15:22,681 Speaker 2: then I'm staying overnight and then hiring a car to 271 00:15:22,721 --> 00:15:26,841 Speaker 2: get from Newcastle to Armadale. Well, here I am at 272 00:15:26,841 --> 00:15:29,921 Speaker 2: the airport, ready to jump on the long term parking 273 00:15:29,961 --> 00:15:30,601 Speaker 2: bus and. 274 00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:36,601 Speaker 1: Head in to fly to Newcastle once I forward was 275 00:15:36,681 --> 00:15:39,161 Speaker 1: closed while phones must be switched off the flight road 276 00:15:39,201 --> 00:15:42,001 Speaker 1: and laptops stored away inside the bags take off the landing. 277 00:15:42,561 --> 00:15:44,681 Speaker 1: We can assist you with anything. Don't hesitate to her. 278 00:15:45,841 --> 00:15:47,121 Speaker 1: Let's get a quiet of us. 279 00:15:47,121 --> 00:15:50,481 Speaker 4: Wanted a lot of minutes and should be touching the 280 00:15:50,561 --> 00:15:56,401 Speaker 4: ten and. 281 00:15:54,681 --> 00:15:57,841 Speaker 2: So traveling through all of I think it was a 282 00:15:57,961 --> 00:16:00,721 Speaker 2: three and a half hour drive, I think, so that 283 00:16:00,841 --> 00:16:02,121 Speaker 2: was organized very quickly. 284 00:16:02,281 --> 00:16:04,961 Speaker 1: So that was, yeah, basically a flight, a flight. 285 00:16:04,721 --> 00:16:08,041 Speaker 2: For me and overnight stay and then traveling up just 286 00:16:08,241 --> 00:16:10,201 Speaker 2: because we wanted to be together to do it. 287 00:16:10,561 --> 00:16:12,881 Speaker 1: And so Joni, you know, coming and helping me every 288 00:16:12,921 --> 00:16:16,361 Speaker 1: time is you know, more flights, more car higher and 289 00:16:16,561 --> 00:16:19,201 Speaker 1: for us as well, like we have the expense of 290 00:16:19,921 --> 00:16:22,401 Speaker 1: driving there, and yeah, Jodah, we've got a big room 291 00:16:22,441 --> 00:16:25,601 Speaker 1: this time, and n bumped in with Chris and I 292 00:16:25,601 --> 00:16:28,081 Speaker 1: didn't sleep in the same bed, you know, I'm share 293 00:16:28,121 --> 00:16:30,761 Speaker 1: her home room. But doing it together and then taking 294 00:16:30,801 --> 00:16:33,561 Speaker 1: people out for dinners and saying thank you for being 295 00:16:33,921 --> 00:16:37,161 Speaker 1: so grateful for their efforts, because people are doing it 296 00:16:37,601 --> 00:16:40,401 Speaker 1: all based on their donations as well, you know, that's 297 00:16:40,441 --> 00:16:45,561 Speaker 1: how they run their business is on donations. Something I've 298 00:16:45,601 --> 00:16:48,201 Speaker 1: always asked you this, but you should tell people like 299 00:16:48,281 --> 00:16:50,241 Speaker 1: why are you doing this? Why are you helping? 300 00:16:50,281 --> 00:16:50,481 Speaker 5: Why? 301 00:16:50,521 --> 00:16:50,721 Speaker 1: Why? 302 00:16:50,761 --> 00:16:50,961 Speaker 6: Why? 303 00:16:51,001 --> 00:16:51,361 Speaker 1: Why? 304 00:16:51,921 --> 00:16:57,881 Speaker 2: Well, basically, I'm just an extremely determined person who does 305 00:16:57,961 --> 00:17:01,721 Speaker 2: things until the end. That is all I can honestly say. 306 00:17:02,441 --> 00:17:05,801 Speaker 2: So when my mother in law came to me, her 307 00:17:05,921 --> 00:17:10,161 Speaker 2: grandmother went missing, as you know, so we spent fifteen 308 00:17:10,241 --> 00:17:14,801 Speaker 2: years of our lives getting from point A to point 309 00:17:14,921 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: Z where we did locate her. So finding her and 310 00:17:19,761 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: getting to the end of it is that's just what 311 00:17:22,481 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 2: I'm like. 312 00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:24,281 Speaker 1: I'm like a dog with a bone. 313 00:17:24,441 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: I don't leave things until they're actually wrapped up or 314 00:17:29,041 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 2: and we've spoken about this many times, if you need 315 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,841 Speaker 2: to wrap this up, or if you need to do 316 00:17:35,921 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: other things and then come back to it. So I 317 00:17:38,481 --> 00:17:42,881 Speaker 2: guess that is my motivation, as you know, like I 318 00:17:43,041 --> 00:17:47,281 Speaker 2: enjoy gathering facts information together. I love going through things, 319 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: and I love pulling everything in and working it out simple. 320 00:17:52,521 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: I think I remember you saying to me once, because 321 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: I've asked you this quite a few times, and you 322 00:17:57,521 --> 00:18:00,201 Speaker 1: said to me that most bizarre thing ever, you kind 323 00:18:00,241 --> 00:18:02,761 Speaker 1: of felt a bit responsible because you found the ad 324 00:18:02,761 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: in the period. That is true. 325 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: So basically, and this is why people query me often, 326 00:18:09,961 --> 00:18:13,761 Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing this for? So basically 327 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: I was a podcast listener. I was listening around, I 328 00:18:17,521 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: was listening to everything. I enjoyed it. It was like 329 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: my hobby, like a lot of other people are. But 330 00:18:24,281 --> 00:18:26,801 Speaker 2: when I was sitting there that night having a little 331 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 2: search around in all my little databases and that that 332 00:18:29,721 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 2: I had learned how to do because of searching for 333 00:18:32,521 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 2: Chris's great grandmother, that ad popped up, and I knew 334 00:18:36,481 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: at that point in time my life was just going 335 00:18:38,721 --> 00:18:39,281 Speaker 2: to change. 336 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,321 Speaker 1: I knew it straightaway. That was the golden ticket. Yeah. 337 00:18:44,681 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: So basically I thought to myself at that point, Okay, 338 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,001 Speaker 2: your podcast, if there was no actual outcome as such, 339 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,521 Speaker 2: like there was no way forward, your episodes would have 340 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,801 Speaker 2: been done in however many you did. 341 00:18:59,001 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we were saying there was probably seven episodes. Yeah, 342 00:19:02,201 --> 00:19:05,041 Speaker 1: so unless we find something and we found it, yeah, 343 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,041 Speaker 1: and then you found it. 344 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: So therefore I feel as though, Okay, I've basically thrown 345 00:19:10,281 --> 00:19:14,201 Speaker 2: this big bomb into your life. So therefore I feel 346 00:19:14,241 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 2: as though I need to as much as possible actually 347 00:19:18,561 --> 00:19:19,761 Speaker 2: see this through to the end. 348 00:19:20,281 --> 00:19:22,761 Speaker 1: That's why I'm still here. And I think from my 349 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: point of view too, Like you've given so much to 350 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: me and the case that I feel like I wanted 351 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: to bring you on this journey with me to see 352 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: it through, because in my world, it would be pretty 353 00:19:36,201 --> 00:19:37,881 Speaker 1: horrible to sit there and go, well, you've done all 354 00:19:37,921 --> 00:19:40,281 Speaker 1: of this, you've found all of these things for you 355 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: later I'm out. So for me, I know that finding 356 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: an answer and getting to the end as best we 357 00:19:47,241 --> 00:19:49,801 Speaker 1: can is really important for you too. You know, we've 358 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: been friends for six years now, so yeah, you know, 359 00:19:52,201 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: we've learnt a lot about each other and I know 360 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,761 Speaker 1: who you are as a person and I'm really grateful 361 00:19:56,921 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. Your husband, who's super supportive, 362 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, and who is a bit like my Chris Prier. 363 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,761 Speaker 2: And look, it's not something that I ever visage like 364 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: I know at times we'll talk on the phone. I mean, 365 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: we're two states away from each other, and it is 366 00:20:11,561 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: quite bizarre, like when you actually think about it, a 367 00:20:14,921 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: lot of my friends have focused in my local area. 368 00:20:17,681 --> 00:20:20,321 Speaker 2: I'm in a rural area. But for some reason we've 369 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,481 Speaker 2: just come together and we're on a mission. So it's 370 00:20:24,521 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: no more complicated than that. 371 00:20:26,001 --> 00:20:26,281 Speaker 6: Really. 372 00:20:26,561 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm very grateful that you're here still. Well, 373 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean if we talk a little bit about what 374 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,601 Speaker 1: happened in the dog search. Right when we arrived, Jonie 375 00:20:40,761 --> 00:20:43,801 Speaker 1: and Adele were already doing a scale of one area 376 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: and Chris Darcy greeted myself and my Chris and we 377 00:20:48,561 --> 00:20:50,681 Speaker 1: spent the day in Armadale. 378 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 6: We finally made it. Are you going, jeez, Louise, counce. 379 00:20:58,441 --> 00:21:02,721 Speaker 1: The dogs there? 380 00:21:02,801 --> 00:21:04,921 Speaker 7: The dogs are just coming around the bend. 381 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: Okay, so is this the actual bike track here? 382 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,721 Speaker 4: That's why have the bike tracks? 383 00:21:12,761 --> 00:21:14,961 Speaker 1: Okay, the second five. 384 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,201 Speaker 5: Track before searching. 385 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: I wonder where exactly they noted about the entire area 386 00:21:24,921 --> 00:21:33,321 Speaker 1: with the drone yesterdays giving the dog's nose and sped 387 00:21:33,321 --> 00:21:39,081 Speaker 1: to do their job very good. You know, we had 388 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people onlookers walking up and down the 389 00:21:42,721 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: street looking at us as what are you guys doing? 390 00:21:45,921 --> 00:21:48,641 Speaker 1: Why are you here? And we were getting a bit panicky, 391 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,041 Speaker 1: like especially when the drones went up, because Chris had 392 00:21:52,041 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: actually got approval from the airstrip to put the drones 393 00:21:55,241 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: up so that they could do mapping. So they actually 394 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: put the drones up and map out a whole area. 395 00:22:00,041 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: And then the dogs actually have these little GPS collars 396 00:22:03,201 --> 00:22:05,561 Speaker 1: and they're different colors for each dog, and then they 397 00:22:05,561 --> 00:22:17,761 Speaker 1: can see exactly where the other dogs have walked. So 398 00:22:17,761 --> 00:22:20,801 Speaker 1: it's quite a phenomenal system that they've got going on, 399 00:22:21,001 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: and you know, it just made me feel better being there. 400 00:22:25,521 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go there and see it, but 401 00:22:27,801 --> 00:22:30,841 Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it by myself. So it's 402 00:22:30,961 --> 00:22:34,481 Speaker 1: very interesting with the cadaver dogs because they're obviously smelling 403 00:22:34,481 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: a scent, they're following their noses. Where at the Training 404 00:22:38,201 --> 00:22:43,201 Speaker 1: Academy of Search Dogs, a volunteer organization that teaches dogs 405 00:22:43,241 --> 00:22:45,921 Speaker 1: and handlers to find missing people. 406 00:22:45,761 --> 00:22:48,041 Speaker 4: We've been called into quite a few missing person searches, 407 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 4: both live and deceased. However, most of our work at 408 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,201 Speaker 4: the moment is for human remains detection of the long 409 00:22:54,281 --> 00:22:54,801 Speaker 4: term missing. 410 00:22:55,721 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: We were walking along their joney and on the other 411 00:22:58,961 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: side of the bridge, Chris and Rufus heading to the 412 00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:08,001 Speaker 1: other side of the bridge because remembering too, it's difficult 413 00:23:08,041 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: to work out when someone says the left, but you 414 00:23:12,561 --> 00:23:16,881 Speaker 1: can see here too, like it's quite denseer. There's obviously 415 00:23:16,921 --> 00:23:20,281 Speaker 1: being water that's come over the bridge, and I'm guessing 416 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:25,361 Speaker 1: these I think it's got the measurement here for when 417 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: it floods. 418 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,201 Speaker 6: And they've actually got like a closed. 419 00:23:29,441 --> 00:23:34,241 Speaker 1: Gate on either side of this causeway here, so obviously 420 00:23:35,561 --> 00:23:38,641 Speaker 1: does flood. So when you look at that street, there's 421 00:23:38,681 --> 00:23:42,841 Speaker 1: actually one of those flood zone poles. Yeah, so the 422 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: instant I looked at that and I thought, that's a 423 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,401 Speaker 1: flood zone like that floods. If they've got that sign there, 424 00:23:48,441 --> 00:23:51,121 Speaker 1: that's telling us that this is an area that definitely floods. 425 00:23:51,481 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: And I was walking and I stood and looked over 426 00:23:54,001 --> 00:23:56,721 Speaker 1: and just had a moment by myself in that space 427 00:23:56,801 --> 00:23:59,081 Speaker 1: and looked at the reeds below me, and I could 428 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: see the water and the reeds were all bent over, 429 00:24:02,721 --> 00:24:05,001 Speaker 1: and in my heart, I was like, if her body 430 00:24:05,241 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: was here, it's probably been washed away. If they've dumped 431 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: dead body in the water, it's potentially been washed away, 432 00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:15,761 Speaker 1: And how will we ever find her if that's the case. 433 00:24:15,801 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: So I sort of had this moment once again. You know, 434 00:24:19,281 --> 00:24:23,761 Speaker 1: we letterbox drive dropping. I've got Sonya's cards that she 435 00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:27,801 Speaker 1: made Eko, you know who spent all this money making 436 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: these beautiful glossy, double sided hard cardboard brochure. I just 437 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,561 Speaker 1: went and put them in all the mailboxes, thinking if 438 00:24:33,561 --> 00:24:38,041 Speaker 1: someone saw anything it would be helpful to know. We've 439 00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:40,961 Speaker 1: got like a little blurb on the back, and there's 440 00:24:40,961 --> 00:24:43,521 Speaker 1: a QR code on here as well, so people can 441 00:24:43,561 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: actually scan that and find out what's happening. And I'm 442 00:24:47,521 --> 00:24:51,281 Speaker 1: just getting easy in people's mailboxes just to bring some 443 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: awareness to the local community that my mummy is a 444 00:24:55,481 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: missing person. We are getting a lot of attension, so 445 00:25:01,281 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: a little weird feeling, but hopefully, you never know, people 446 00:25:06,241 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: might actually start talking a little bit. It's not a 447 00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: very a huge town, so these guys don't look like 448 00:25:14,721 --> 00:25:19,801 Speaker 1: they get much because there's cobwebs, they're mailbox you know. 449 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,201 Speaker 1: One of the things I really wanted to do, which 450 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: sort of stems back to that dream that I kept having, 451 00:25:25,281 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: was something I've thought about for a long time because 452 00:25:27,441 --> 00:25:31,081 Speaker 1: I had another cleavoyant tell me, actually too Clevelance tell 453 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,201 Speaker 1: me them they could see my mum was buried under floorboards, 454 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,241 Speaker 1: and so the drama of that in itself is quite 455 00:25:39,281 --> 00:25:41,761 Speaker 1: hard to fathom with because you think that she's been 456 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: murdered and someone's done something to her, right, and that 457 00:25:44,241 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: was very early on, when I'm still trying to grapple 458 00:25:47,001 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: with the police telling me she's alive and well and 459 00:25:49,001 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: doesn't want anything to do with me, and just me 460 00:25:51,521 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: knowing something was not right. Later in that day, we 461 00:25:59,721 --> 00:26:02,281 Speaker 1: made the brave decision to walk up to the house 462 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,761 Speaker 1: that we knew to be the point of. 463 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,041 Speaker 2: Entry stiff you like, So just where the alleged crime 464 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,281 Speaker 2: Stoppers caller came from was the house that we actually visited. 465 00:26:12,321 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 2: We'd spied it a few times during the day, hadn't 466 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: we Like, we were kind of as we're doing a 467 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,521 Speaker 2: little bit stopping, we're kind of looking around. We've done 468 00:26:20,561 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: as much work as we can on who's currently living 469 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: there now to sort of know what we're going to 470 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,681 Speaker 2: be facing. 471 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: And once again I was in that position of going, 472 00:26:29,001 --> 00:26:30,321 Speaker 1: I don't really want to go and knock on these 473 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,761 Speaker 1: people's door if they have no idea of what this 474 00:26:33,921 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: is about or have anything to do with it, and 475 00:26:35,961 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: upset them and make them feel like something's happened and whatnot. 476 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: But we didn't enter the premises. The lady was actually 477 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,041 Speaker 1: already in the garden. 478 00:26:44,961 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 5: Hello, how are you? My name is a girl. 479 00:26:48,961 --> 00:26:51,761 Speaker 1: I'm from Searchgog, Sydney. So what we do is we 480 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: look for missing people. 481 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 8: Sally here, her mother went missing back in nineteen ninety seven. 482 00:26:58,201 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Chris goes in and does the search, 483 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,401 Speaker 1: and as we're standing at the front, the granddaughter rocks 484 00:27:04,481 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: up and she's like, Hi, what's happening, And so she 485 00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: sort of negotiates with us and says, oh yeap. Nana 486 00:27:09,681 --> 00:27:12,721 Speaker 1: says it's fine. So I'm going to myself, Okay, Well, 487 00:27:12,761 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: this is potentially the house that has been nominated in 488 00:27:15,441 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: the crime stoppers call. And I've always had a vision 489 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: of that house in my head. I could actually see 490 00:27:20,961 --> 00:27:24,441 Speaker 1: the house. Looked nothing like my vision, I want to say, 491 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,601 Speaker 1: but it was really vital. And I asked Chris if 492 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,321 Speaker 1: he could take Rufus the dog underneath the house and 493 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,281 Speaker 1: just to do a search, just so I could walk 494 00:27:33,321 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: away from that space and go, I know that's been checked. 495 00:27:35,921 --> 00:27:36,121 Speaker 6: Now. 496 00:27:36,201 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: We were just hoping maybe we could just let the 497 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,761 Speaker 1: dog come up and have a sniff around and see 498 00:27:40,801 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: if there was any trace of her. There's half a 499 00:27:43,201 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: million dollars up for grabs. If you found her. 500 00:27:45,801 --> 00:27:46,321 Speaker 3: He'll learn a bit. 501 00:27:47,441 --> 00:28:01,881 Speaker 1: Thank you for doing that, Ankaya never as you say. 502 00:28:05,281 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: And the lady remembered the police coming and verified for 503 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,681 Speaker 1: us that her husband had passed away. The next time, 504 00:28:12,721 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: they came, which is what we knew because what was 505 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: in the report. So we had the right family, we 506 00:28:17,921 --> 00:28:21,401 Speaker 1: had the right information, but we still are not confident 507 00:28:21,441 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: today that they had the right person ad with somebody else. 508 00:28:25,801 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: And that was a big day. I was exhausted, plus 509 00:28:28,921 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: I had still was not feeling very well, and Adele 510 00:28:32,481 --> 00:28:34,481 Speaker 1: actually had to do some work so she didn't come. 511 00:28:34,481 --> 00:28:37,481 Speaker 1: But we took Chris out for dinner and we were 512 00:28:37,521 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: sitting there and you had gotten alerk come through. So 513 00:28:42,681 --> 00:28:44,321 Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know, Joni has got 514 00:28:44,321 --> 00:28:46,921 Speaker 1: this really great thing which I'm sure other people know 515 00:28:46,961 --> 00:28:49,001 Speaker 1: but I didn't know about it, which is a Google 516 00:28:49,041 --> 00:28:51,761 Speaker 1: trendsearch and you can actually put in code words and 517 00:28:51,761 --> 00:28:55,761 Speaker 1: it actually will bring up information for you. And she 518 00:28:55,841 --> 00:28:59,401 Speaker 1: alerted me to the fact that a letter had been 519 00:28:59,481 --> 00:29:03,121 Speaker 1: sent to the Attorney generally New South Wales from New 520 00:29:03,121 --> 00:29:08,641 Speaker 1: South Wales Police an overview of what the coroner had 521 00:29:08,681 --> 00:29:11,841 Speaker 1: said at the findings. So when you have a finding 522 00:29:12,121 --> 00:29:16,561 Speaker 1: from the coroner, the police have six months to formally 523 00:29:16,721 --> 00:29:19,241 Speaker 1: let the Attorney General know what has happened to your 524 00:29:19,321 --> 00:29:22,801 Speaker 1: person and they literally take it right up literally the 525 00:29:22,881 --> 00:29:27,561 Speaker 1: last minute. I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked to 526 00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:30,521 Speaker 1: see that they had removed the words of the coroner 527 00:29:30,961 --> 00:29:34,641 Speaker 1: on that document that went to the Attorney General's Office 528 00:29:34,801 --> 00:29:37,761 Speaker 1: and lo and behold, it wasn't just mum. It was 529 00:29:37,881 --> 00:29:41,801 Speaker 1: multiple cases, wasn't it. So the letters were basically exactly 530 00:29:41,841 --> 00:29:45,161 Speaker 1: the same written. That was just almost and it was 531 00:29:45,361 --> 00:29:48,401 Speaker 1: just you know, we did a review of the findings 532 00:29:48,441 --> 00:29:51,641 Speaker 1: for that year, so the actual words that were removed 533 00:29:51,641 --> 00:29:56,281 Speaker 1: from the letters was ongoing investigation, so it was monitoring 534 00:29:56,321 --> 00:30:01,081 Speaker 1: and review only. So basically the coroner sends their findings 535 00:30:01,361 --> 00:30:06,001 Speaker 1: recommendations to the New South Wales Police and the letters 536 00:30:06,001 --> 00:30:09,841 Speaker 1: that are actually sent to the Attorney General removes the 537 00:30:09,881 --> 00:30:12,961 Speaker 1: word investigate. We were sitting there eating and we're talking 538 00:30:12,961 --> 00:30:15,201 Speaker 1: about it and you were like, oh my god, there's molden. Yeah, 539 00:30:15,241 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: it's not just you. I didn't know that the New 540 00:30:17,521 --> 00:30:21,001 Speaker 1: South Wales Police had sent anything to the Attorney General's Office, 541 00:30:21,001 --> 00:30:23,761 Speaker 1: and then I was quite concerned because that language is 542 00:30:23,921 --> 00:30:27,601 Speaker 1: very different. So the coroner is saying, and she says, 543 00:30:27,641 --> 00:30:29,921 Speaker 1: at the end of her findings, I am leaving it 544 00:30:30,001 --> 00:30:34,961 Speaker 1: with the New South Wales Homicide Investigation Team for ongoing investigation, 545 00:30:35,521 --> 00:30:36,721 Speaker 1: review and update. 546 00:30:37,201 --> 00:30:39,761 Speaker 4: I recommend that the new South Wales Commissioner of Police 547 00:30:39,801 --> 00:30:42,881 Speaker 4: calls the investigation into the death of missing person Flora 548 00:30:42,881 --> 00:30:46,201 Speaker 4: Bella Natalia at Marian Ramcol formerly known as Marion Barter 549 00:30:46,761 --> 00:30:49,321 Speaker 4: to be referred to or to remain within the State 550 00:30:49,401 --> 00:30:54,401 Speaker 4: Crime Command Unsolved Homicide Team for ongoing Investigation, review and monitoring. 551 00:30:54,801 --> 00:30:58,761 Speaker 1: And then they took out the words ongoing investigation and 552 00:30:58,801 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: then I remember hearing about it. We'll just do an 553 00:31:01,281 --> 00:31:04,121 Speaker 1: update in a review. And here's the cracker. Guys, they 554 00:31:04,121 --> 00:31:06,641 Speaker 1: don't have to update review for the first five years 555 00:31:06,881 --> 00:31:09,321 Speaker 1: after an inquest. They don't have to tell me a thing. 556 00:31:09,881 --> 00:31:13,001 Speaker 1: And because the case is open but inactive, unless any 557 00:31:13,081 --> 00:31:16,281 Speaker 1: new information becomes available to them, and guess who gets 558 00:31:16,321 --> 00:31:18,521 Speaker 1: the new information. We have to give it to them 559 00:31:18,601 --> 00:31:20,401 Speaker 1: for them to do something unless it falls in their lap, 560 00:31:20,481 --> 00:31:24,241 Speaker 1: they're not looking for it. So it puts us back 561 00:31:24,241 --> 00:31:27,161 Speaker 1: in that position where you're back to the families haveting 562 00:31:27,201 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: to go to, the media, haveting to do. You know 563 00:31:29,721 --> 00:31:31,681 Speaker 1: what we do. Even my lawyer said to me at 564 00:31:31,721 --> 00:31:33,321 Speaker 1: the end of the inquest, he goes, the media might 565 00:31:33,321 --> 00:31:36,121 Speaker 1: be your best bet, Sally, and I'm like, I'm tired. 566 00:31:36,561 --> 00:31:38,881 Speaker 1: I'm tired of having to go to the media, Like 567 00:31:39,361 --> 00:31:41,281 Speaker 1: you know, I'm very grateful for it all, but it's 568 00:31:41,321 --> 00:31:44,641 Speaker 1: exhausting and very stressful to have to put your whole 569 00:31:44,641 --> 00:31:47,681 Speaker 1: life out in the world and have people you know 570 00:31:48,401 --> 00:31:51,161 Speaker 1: trying to help you. That that can be it's as 571 00:31:51,201 --> 00:31:53,281 Speaker 1: great as it is, it can be very hard and 572 00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:57,921 Speaker 1: and very exhausting as well. Okay, So then the next 573 00:31:57,961 --> 00:32:01,121 Speaker 1: morning we tried to get some sleep that night and 574 00:32:01,361 --> 00:32:03,361 Speaker 1: we said goodbye to you because you went off on 575 00:32:03,401 --> 00:32:06,321 Speaker 1: your merry way down it to new and Chris and 576 00:32:06,361 --> 00:32:09,681 Speaker 1: I went with Adele and Chris followed them out to Inverrel. 577 00:32:09,841 --> 00:32:12,201 Speaker 1: And the reason we went to Inverrel was because there 578 00:32:12,241 --> 00:32:16,721 Speaker 1: had been during the podcast a gentleman had gone into 579 00:32:16,761 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: a police station in Penrith, I believe, and said that 580 00:32:20,441 --> 00:32:25,081 Speaker 1: he had coordinates of a location of where my mum's 581 00:32:25,081 --> 00:32:29,241 Speaker 1: body was buried, and that happened to be in Inverrel. 582 00:32:29,681 --> 00:32:32,321 Speaker 1: And you know, we've got connectors as well, don't We 583 00:32:32,441 --> 00:32:35,321 Speaker 1: to Inverrel with people who live in in Verrel who 584 00:32:35,401 --> 00:32:38,361 Speaker 1: we know had connections in Byron Bay, and we were 585 00:32:38,561 --> 00:32:41,601 Speaker 1: just our brains were just going a million miles an hour. 586 00:32:43,401 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: So what's interesting in this location is that there's a 587 00:32:48,321 --> 00:32:52,881 Speaker 1: family connection with a lot of the same family who 588 00:32:52,961 --> 00:32:57,241 Speaker 1: are also connected to dog food manufacturing in Byron Bay, 589 00:32:58,001 --> 00:33:03,041 Speaker 1: and there's a connection there with the delivery driver for 590 00:33:03,201 --> 00:33:06,401 Speaker 1: that dog food company who told everybody he was one 591 00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: of the owners of the company, but in fact he 592 00:33:09,681 --> 00:33:13,881 Speaker 1: was just the driver and he has a connection. 593 00:33:14,561 --> 00:33:17,841 Speaker 5: So he thought that was quite an odd coincidence that 594 00:33:18,001 --> 00:33:24,761 Speaker 5: this popetive location is that as such, so at least. 595 00:33:24,681 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: Doesn't look like a standard house. It actually looks like 596 00:33:27,361 --> 00:33:32,561 Speaker 1: multiple small dwellings dwellings. The police have been here and 597 00:33:32,601 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: spoken to them and they just had a look around. 598 00:33:35,081 --> 00:33:37,601 Speaker 1: They didn't actually do a dog search or probing or 599 00:33:37,681 --> 00:33:42,001 Speaker 1: anything like that, and he just said reported back that 600 00:33:42,001 --> 00:33:44,001 Speaker 1: it didn't look like there was a grave. 601 00:33:45,241 --> 00:33:48,041 Speaker 6: Fare, to which I went, well, that's really good looking. 602 00:33:48,121 --> 00:33:49,761 Speaker 1: Thank you. If you're going to take all the gilatic 603 00:33:49,961 --> 00:33:53,001 Speaker 1: come out here, I would have thought you would actually 604 00:33:53,081 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: probably do a proper search of the area. In What 605 00:33:56,121 --> 00:34:00,001 Speaker 1: year was that that was recent it came out here, Yeah, 606 00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:06,561 Speaker 1: like twenty twenty one, so we're looking at it's twenty 607 00:34:06,601 --> 00:34:07,281 Speaker 1: two years. 608 00:34:08,641 --> 00:34:12,881 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Clandestin engraves do change considerably in that amount of time, and. 609 00:34:12,881 --> 00:34:16,001 Speaker 1: It would be very difficult to recognize from an untrained 610 00:34:16,561 --> 00:34:19,801 Speaker 1: why I always feel like it was the same with 611 00:34:19,881 --> 00:34:22,281 Speaker 1: Finan Ramika. When we were driving to his house, I 612 00:34:22,321 --> 00:34:24,601 Speaker 1: was saying to the team, you know, it got to 613 00:34:24,601 --> 00:34:27,361 Speaker 1: be conscious that these people have forgotten nothing to do 614 00:34:27,521 --> 00:34:31,881 Speaker 1: with my mum's disappearance at all when sort of coming 615 00:34:31,881 --> 00:34:35,241 Speaker 1: into their space, and so just for knowledge, this is 616 00:34:35,361 --> 00:34:47,601 Speaker 1: for location here. Yeah, hello, how are you snucky? How 617 00:34:47,641 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: are you? That's good? 618 00:34:49,641 --> 00:34:52,401 Speaker 8: My name's a Dalom from Search Dog City and we're 619 00:34:52,401 --> 00:34:56,001 Speaker 8: currently in the area doing a search for a missing 620 00:34:56,041 --> 00:34:59,081 Speaker 8: person and this is Sally and it's actually her mother 621 00:34:59,161 --> 00:35:00,121 Speaker 8: that we're searching for. 622 00:35:02,281 --> 00:35:06,281 Speaker 1: She said, no problem, just keep the dogs away from caddle, 623 00:35:07,201 --> 00:35:09,081 Speaker 1: that's her main concern. I said, well, the cattle are 624 00:35:09,121 --> 00:35:13,481 Speaker 1: actually down the front gate. We'll make sure we're and 625 00:35:13,601 --> 00:35:16,081 Speaker 1: he's on the lead. Anyway. She said that the police 626 00:35:16,081 --> 00:35:19,481 Speaker 1: had been twice. What didn't That's interesting, which is interesting 627 00:35:19,561 --> 00:35:23,281 Speaker 1: because the dates she gave are like a few years ago. 628 00:35:23,521 --> 00:35:25,641 Speaker 1: Yep was the last time, and they came a few 629 00:35:25,681 --> 00:35:31,481 Speaker 1: years before that, So that's very interesting. Why were they 630 00:35:31,521 --> 00:35:34,921 Speaker 1: coming twice and why were they coming before those coordinates 631 00:35:34,961 --> 00:35:39,401 Speaker 1: were handed in before the cause If you couldn't give 632 00:35:39,521 --> 00:35:46,761 Speaker 1: dates all right, she wished me well in my search. 633 00:35:46,921 --> 00:35:49,761 Speaker 1: So you know, it's nice that people actually. 634 00:35:50,361 --> 00:35:51,681 Speaker 8: Very accommodating the. 635 00:35:53,521 --> 00:35:55,361 Speaker 1: This must be very weird for them, you know, to 636 00:35:55,401 --> 00:35:58,961 Speaker 1: go why would there be coordinates on my property like 637 00:35:59,121 --> 00:36:02,201 Speaker 1: that is a weird, weird situation. 638 00:36:02,481 --> 00:36:11,561 Speaker 6: So set the noise of the camera taking photos from 639 00:36:11,561 --> 00:36:12,481 Speaker 6: the drone. 640 00:36:12,721 --> 00:36:21,441 Speaker 7: Yeah right, it's all right, all right, Well we'll just 641 00:36:21,481 --> 00:36:25,201 Speaker 7: gone this snapping and have a look check it all out. 642 00:36:25,561 --> 00:36:41,081 Speaker 1: So what I'll do is definition. So meanwhile I'm going south. 643 00:36:41,961 --> 00:36:46,881 Speaker 2: So essentially the wonderful Ballan, a retiree, did a bit 644 00:36:46,921 --> 00:36:51,281 Speaker 2: of a map of the family group of the man 645 00:36:51,561 --> 00:36:56,241 Speaker 2: in Armadale whose house was supposedly connected to the crime 646 00:36:56,241 --> 00:37:00,081 Speaker 2: stoppers call. So I then on my way back down, 647 00:37:00,761 --> 00:37:04,841 Speaker 2: did actually meet up with the wife of another family 648 00:37:04,801 --> 00:37:08,801 Speaker 2: met with a similar name, just to check as to 649 00:37:08,881 --> 00:37:12,081 Speaker 2: whether she'd ever heard anything about this, whether there was 650 00:37:12,121 --> 00:37:16,081 Speaker 2: any connection there, etc. And so I did that on 651 00:37:16,161 --> 00:37:19,761 Speaker 2: the way down. There was no results, so she had 652 00:37:19,881 --> 00:37:23,561 Speaker 2: no idea. There was no connection there. They were separated, 653 00:37:23,681 --> 00:37:27,801 Speaker 2: so there was no alliances or anything like that. So 654 00:37:28,001 --> 00:37:31,121 Speaker 2: then I just continued my way down, went through Cessnock, 655 00:37:31,201 --> 00:37:35,041 Speaker 2: which is where mister Blum lived, and his family members 656 00:37:35,041 --> 00:37:38,881 Speaker 2: lived for an extended period of time, so visited there, 657 00:37:39,001 --> 00:37:41,401 Speaker 2: had to look at the house, knocked on the door, 658 00:37:41,881 --> 00:37:45,641 Speaker 2: attempting to find the neighbor who signed the passport under 659 00:37:45,641 --> 00:37:49,361 Speaker 2: his new name. He had passed away, so again we're 660 00:37:49,401 --> 00:37:52,481 Speaker 2: just dealing with time. So none of the neighbors around 661 00:37:52,521 --> 00:37:55,881 Speaker 2: that surrounding house knew anything about it because they were 662 00:37:55,921 --> 00:37:58,561 Speaker 2: knew they had no idea and then just went in 663 00:37:58,601 --> 00:38:01,201 Speaker 2: and had to look at the records in the cesnot 664 00:38:01,241 --> 00:38:03,321 Speaker 2: library and no joy there. 665 00:38:03,521 --> 00:38:06,161 Speaker 1: So down I went back down to new Castle. You 666 00:38:06,241 --> 00:38:07,321 Speaker 1: were by yourself too. 667 00:38:08,161 --> 00:38:11,281 Speaker 2: I was by myself, but I guess probably twenty years 668 00:38:11,321 --> 00:38:15,361 Speaker 2: social work Cross's intervention. I've never ever been injured. I've 669 00:38:15,401 --> 00:38:19,601 Speaker 2: always gotten myself out of sticky situations, so I wasn't 670 00:38:19,801 --> 00:38:20,881 Speaker 2: really that concerned. 671 00:38:24,761 --> 00:38:28,201 Speaker 1: Driving home, I was a very long day, way longer 672 00:38:28,241 --> 00:38:31,081 Speaker 1: than I was sort of anticipating, because we'd gone out 673 00:38:31,201 --> 00:38:32,761 Speaker 1: in Virel and then we had to go all the 674 00:38:32,801 --> 00:38:35,561 Speaker 1: way back to Brisbane, you know, just to be able 675 00:38:35,601 --> 00:38:38,641 Speaker 1: to reflect and be very grateful for the opportunity of 676 00:38:38,681 --> 00:38:41,881 Speaker 1: the help that was given to us. And I ticked 677 00:38:41,921 --> 00:38:45,561 Speaker 1: those boxes like we checked. There was no sign of 678 00:38:45,681 --> 00:38:50,281 Speaker 1: my mum anywhere. And I think it's a very hard 679 00:38:50,321 --> 00:38:52,881 Speaker 1: thing to sort of process in the world of the missing, 680 00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:56,601 Speaker 1: because how devastating it is to think that you want 681 00:38:56,601 --> 00:38:59,681 Speaker 1: to find your missing mother's bones in a lake or 682 00:38:59,721 --> 00:39:03,761 Speaker 1: in a creek or in a cow paddock, but you 683 00:39:03,921 --> 00:39:06,161 Speaker 1: desperately want to find them so that you can have 684 00:39:06,401 --> 00:39:09,641 Speaker 1: peace and you can know that you've done everything you 685 00:39:09,721 --> 00:39:12,481 Speaker 1: possibly can. And I think I've just said that for 686 00:39:12,521 --> 00:39:15,041 Speaker 1: so long, like I'm only doing this so my kids 687 00:39:15,081 --> 00:39:17,361 Speaker 1: don't have to you know, I'll do the best I 688 00:39:17,401 --> 00:39:21,321 Speaker 1: absolutely can to get the answers. But you know, it's 689 00:39:21,321 --> 00:39:24,121 Speaker 1: a bit of a box ticking exercise at this point too, 690 00:39:24,161 --> 00:39:26,721 Speaker 1: where we're just going, right, we didn't needed to do that. Bang, 691 00:39:26,801 --> 00:39:29,201 Speaker 1: let's ticket, let's go. We've done that. Move to the 692 00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:31,961 Speaker 1: next thing, and I can put that at rest. I 693 00:39:32,041 --> 00:39:35,201 Speaker 1: can go, Okay, we did it, We've done it. I'm satisfied. 694 00:39:35,521 --> 00:39:38,201 Speaker 1: I've done it myself. I'm at a point I don't 695 00:39:38,241 --> 00:39:42,321 Speaker 1: trust anybody anymore. There are people I do trust, obviously, 696 00:39:42,801 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: company excluded, but I've been let down, I've been disappointed. 697 00:39:47,081 --> 00:39:51,441 Speaker 1: I've been promised with no results, and that's very draining 698 00:39:51,481 --> 00:39:54,241 Speaker 1: on a human body and a human soul because it 699 00:39:54,321 --> 00:39:58,081 Speaker 1: depletes you of your energy, and so it is important 700 00:39:58,121 --> 00:40:02,321 Speaker 1: that we go through these processes. And you know, it's 701 00:40:02,361 --> 00:40:05,201 Speaker 1: mentally good for my health to do this, and I 702 00:40:05,241 --> 00:40:08,121 Speaker 1: think my husband particularly and my eldest daughter, she sees 703 00:40:08,161 --> 00:40:10,561 Speaker 1: that is important for me. She's like, right, I know 704 00:40:10,641 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: you have to do this because it's important for you. 705 00:40:13,521 --> 00:40:16,361 Speaker 1: So having the support of them is amazing as well. 706 00:40:17,321 --> 00:40:21,121 Speaker 2: I think that because what I've noticed over the time 707 00:40:21,321 --> 00:40:25,161 Speaker 2: is that one incident or one situation you might have 708 00:40:25,241 --> 00:40:27,201 Speaker 2: heard two or three or four or five or six 709 00:40:27,241 --> 00:40:31,841 Speaker 2: different versions of that. So therefore it's sort of taught you. Okay, 710 00:40:32,241 --> 00:40:33,961 Speaker 2: if I don't do it myself, then. 711 00:40:33,801 --> 00:40:35,081 Speaker 1: I'm never going to really know. 712 00:40:35,641 --> 00:40:37,881 Speaker 2: I don't know how many times we've picked through things over, 713 00:40:38,081 --> 00:40:41,801 Speaker 2: especially over the phone, pick through words, pick through sentences 714 00:40:42,241 --> 00:40:45,761 Speaker 2: to find out, Okay, is this accurate? Is this actually true? 715 00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:49,561 Speaker 2: Was that a typo? How many typos have we come across? 716 00:40:49,641 --> 00:40:50,121 Speaker 1: Too many? 717 00:40:50,401 --> 00:40:56,041 Speaker 2: So it's just spelling dais problems, errors, two different versions 718 00:40:56,041 --> 00:40:59,441 Speaker 2: of events, and so therefore you sort of think to yourself, Okay, 719 00:41:00,121 --> 00:41:04,241 Speaker 2: you I think over this whole period has come to 720 00:41:04,281 --> 00:41:06,161 Speaker 2: a point where you're like, like, if I don't see 721 00:41:06,201 --> 00:41:09,521 Speaker 2: it myself. If I don't do it myself, if I 722 00:41:09,521 --> 00:41:13,201 Speaker 2: don't read it myself or confirm it directly with that person, 723 00:41:13,681 --> 00:41:17,321 Speaker 2: then I'm not trusting that. That's why I think you 724 00:41:17,401 --> 00:41:21,281 Speaker 2: have to be constantly doing things yourself and seeing things 725 00:41:21,361 --> 00:41:22,881 Speaker 2: with your own eyes, which. 726 00:41:22,761 --> 00:41:25,401 Speaker 1: And some people have referred and said, you know, you 727 00:41:25,441 --> 00:41:27,721 Speaker 1: try to control the narrative. I'm like, I'm not trying 728 00:41:27,761 --> 00:41:31,361 Speaker 1: to control anything, but I'm trying to make sure that 729 00:41:31,401 --> 00:41:35,401 Speaker 1: the information is correct, the information is true and fact checked, 730 00:41:35,441 --> 00:41:37,601 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, there's too many 731 00:41:37,601 --> 00:41:40,681 Speaker 1: things that haven't been done and I'm left to pick 732 00:41:40,761 --> 00:41:43,561 Speaker 1: up the pieces because some people just come in, drop 733 00:41:43,561 --> 00:41:46,401 Speaker 1: a bomb and leave and then I'm left to deal 734 00:41:46,441 --> 00:41:47,121 Speaker 1: with it. That's right. 735 00:41:47,161 --> 00:41:50,161 Speaker 2: And also what we found too is one wrong move, 736 00:41:50,761 --> 00:41:55,321 Speaker 2: so one wrong piece of information and you are going 737 00:41:55,401 --> 00:41:58,721 Speaker 2: mentally down a whole nother track, and so it takes 738 00:41:58,801 --> 00:42:03,041 Speaker 2: time to actually pull your own self back onto the 739 00:42:03,081 --> 00:42:06,361 Speaker 2: truth of the matter. I think there's just so many 740 00:42:06,481 --> 00:42:09,121 Speaker 2: different roads that you could go down with this, it's 741 00:42:09,201 --> 00:42:10,041 Speaker 2: quite maddening. 742 00:42:10,241 --> 00:42:13,481 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you've got to have fact Everyone talks about 743 00:42:13,481 --> 00:42:15,561 Speaker 1: the rabbit holes that we've been down. I mean, there's 744 00:42:15,601 --> 00:42:24,041 Speaker 1: plenty of them. 745 00:42:20,161 --> 00:42:23,081 Speaker 2: In the next episode of The Missing Matter Well where 746 00:42:23,161 --> 00:42:25,001 Speaker 2: this is a big episode because we're going to tell 747 00:42:25,041 --> 00:42:28,321 Speaker 2: you why the why Joanie and I are continuing on 748 00:42:28,361 --> 00:42:30,561 Speaker 2: this journey and what have we found that we have 749 00:42:30,681 --> 00:42:31,681 Speaker 2: not told you yet. 750 00:42:37,681 --> 00:42:39,641 Speaker 1: So before we go, I just like to give a 751 00:42:39,641 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: shout out to Adele and to Chris Stacy from Search 752 00:42:43,481 --> 00:42:46,721 Speaker 1: Dog Sydney. We couldn't have done that search without you, guys, 753 00:42:46,761 --> 00:42:52,121 Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful for your energy, your professionalism, your enthusiasm, 754 00:42:52,321 --> 00:42:55,601 Speaker 1: and your understanding of what it is to have to 755 00:42:55,641 --> 00:42:58,601 Speaker 1: do such a task in looking for a missing loved one. 756 00:42:59,121 --> 00:43:01,361 Speaker 1: You guys are second to none in this area, and 757 00:43:01,521 --> 00:43:04,881 Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for all your efforts and your kind 758 00:43:05,441 --> 00:43:09,521 Speaker 1: and giving me the opportunity to do something that I 759 00:43:09,561 --> 00:43:11,961 Speaker 1: really needed to do, so I'm really grateful for that. 760 00:43:12,841 --> 00:43:17,081 Speaker 1: We've actually popped the Search Struck Sydney link in our 761 00:43:17,201 --> 00:43:20,001 Speaker 1: show notes, so if you'd like to pop along, go 762 00:43:20,041 --> 00:43:23,241 Speaker 1: and check out their Facebook page. They do work off 763 00:43:23,281 --> 00:43:26,921 Speaker 1: donations as well, so I'm sure any offering would be 764 00:43:27,281 --> 00:43:31,201 Speaker 1: very much appreciated in this space. Thanks again, guys,