WEBVTT - #154 Former Treasurer Joe Hockey on Trump vs. Harris, China & Australia’s Political Future 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.880 Hi'm i Boris, and this is straight talk. 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.320 Everyone that's going to vote for Harris is going to 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.119 tell you, I reckon. Five out of one hundred that 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.239 are voting for Trump won't tell you. And that's been 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:11.280 believing in the past. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:16.680 Jail Hockeyrus made here, going, what do you think is 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.080 in that effective? Trump wins? 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.280 The amount of announcements he's made, if he were deliver 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:26.280 them on tax cuts, tariffs and everything else would be diabolical. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:27.640 What about if she wins that? 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.240 Because she's talking about price controls and everyone's going, how's 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.000 that going to work? Harris has not defined herself, so 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.440 she still remains a big policy mystery. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.560 And if I was asking now, Joe, what do you 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.680 think will happen in the election next year? A straining Oh, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.080 that's obviously going to be close. Firstly, and do you 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.400 see their current ambassador? Do you have much to do 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:48.040 with kem I do? 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.680 I do? I do? And you know Kevin. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:59.200 Joel Hockeyrus made here going, Okay, I've. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.720 Been a long time, have known each other long time. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:06.520 And actually I remember I was onlything about today. I 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.280 remember meeting you, like when Michael y Abbsley was raising 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.160 money for the Liberal Party. Yeah, that made me two 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.680 thousand nineties. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:16.760 Early nineties totally. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.959 And Wabsley got me in a restaurant with a bow 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:21.720 because it was a friend of mine the time, I'd 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.880 haven't seen a long time and we'd agreed to put 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.920 some moderate amount of money into your campaign, which is 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.760 not much those days if it was a lot, but 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.720 for it lost me at the time. But well, you 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.399 can make up for it now, I know I can. 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.440 Just to embarrass you, like because because I really need 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.240 to do this to you, because Kerry would never forgive 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.920 me Kerry Pack if I don't tell the audience about 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.040 this story. And I'm the only part I'm going to 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:46.560 talk about. The rest. I'm just gonna ask a questions. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:48.000 I'm gonna ask and it's going to all be about you. 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.120 But this story is all about you. Just to give 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.880 the audience a taste of the bloke they're sitting in 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.400 front of me. Now, this is what I call a 0:01:55.520 --> 0:02:00.480 proper treasurer. That's my view, right, And you know he's 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.360 a businessman today. He's a former Ambassador of the United 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.800 States of America for Australia in the United States America 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.480 for Australia and the former Treasurer. But I'm going to 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.120 go right back to two thousand and I think it 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.400 was two maybe two thousand and two. I had was 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.440 a business partnership packer and it was the beginning. It 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.320 was February two thousand and two, I think interest rates. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.600 Interest rates hadn't come off for a long time, and 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.160 you were the Minister for Finance and Petercase was a 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.560 Treasurer at the time, so you're much younger Blake, much 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:37.120 young Blake. So I get a phone call. The first 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.880 Reserve Bank meeting was about happened on the Tuesday February, 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.840 first Tuesday of February, and everyone knew they're going to 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.840 drop interest rates, and they did dropped inns rates. So 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.200 I had a phone call from Minister Joe Hockey and 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.200 he says to me, hey, mate, He said, treasure wants 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.919 to know because in those days, the Treasurer and the 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.000 Promise used to talk in Parliament all the time about 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.520 the competition against the banks. And I was around, Asie 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.120 was around, but Ozzie had been around for a bit 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.120 longer than me, so he had a bigger profile. But 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.040 Minister Hockey says to me on the telephone mark. We 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.080 notice you're dropping in interest rates and I said, yes, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.119 we drop. We announced we're going to drop our instrates. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:19.200 And he said how much by and I said twenty 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.200 five base points, which was just ahead of the Roserve Bank. 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.400 And Minister Hockey said, and when we be passing that 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.280 just rate reduction on? I said, well, funny should say that, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.320 I said, because we're thinking about passing it on much 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.760 more quickly because in those days you passed an interest 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.520 rate increase on straight away and this rate reduction six 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.520 weeks later. Correct, So we hold the money for a bit, 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.720 you know, we also make money. And he said when 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.120 you think you're going to do that, because it was 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.080 a big bonu contention with consumers that this rought was happening. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.880 I said, I don't know. We're thinking thirteen, twelve, thirty 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.360 days that that's very interesting. I'll tell the treasure right, 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:58.960 But I said, I got to check. So I've got 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:00.800 to go check to Kerry Pack. I go to say Erry, 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.360 like mister Hoggie's on the phone. He the threasur was 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.119 going to talk about this in parliament. I said, I said, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.400 I will pass the rate reduction on twelve days and 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.440 carry nearly had apoplexy, like he said, what are you 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.280 doing that for? That's when we make our money and 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.359 during the periods of change. I say, yeah, but you 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.080 know the ministers is thinking it would be good for Australians. 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:20.839 We need to change the landscape. It's unfair that we 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.360 put it up straight away and put it down and said, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:24.520 I think we should do it. He said, okay, Sony said, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.359 I trust you, you do it. So I thought, good, So 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:32.080 I ring mister hockey back. I'm gonna say, Joe twelve days. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.960 He said. It's interesting, Marke he said. He said, I 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.799 was talking to west Pac and west Pack are thinking 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.960 and doing it, doing it in nine days, and I went, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.000 oh fuck. He said, would you go eight? And I thought, 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.840 oh my god. And I thought, I can't ring carry up. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.440 I cannot ring carry. If I ring carry, he'll kill me. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.080 And I thought, west Pac nine, can we go eight? 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.280 Because I can't let Westpac own this now. Now I've 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.160 always started, I've got to own it. I went eight 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.239 days and I I've never known to this very day 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:04.760 whether or not you were telling me the truth or not, 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.640 because I have this. I had this straight after this 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.680 sneaking suspicion that I'd just been jammed and set up 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:14.600 so bad. 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.400 But it did fantastic to be jammed between Kerry Packer 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:19.400 and Johannah. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.440 Pretty hard, and I thought. But the good thing about 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.320 it was, and we don't see this in politics today, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.120 the good thing about it is that treasurers and then 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.120 you later became the treasure later on, but treasurers and 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.000 ministers for finances, you were financial services I think it 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.320 was called at the time, and this it was two 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.080 thousand and one, actually not two thousand and two, took 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.920 risks and were active in the marketplace like our marketplace, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.520 and put pressure on people. I've never heard a word 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.040 from I did hear from Scott at one stage in Josh, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.359 but I've never heard a word from Jim. And you know, 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.960 what do you think about this as a representative a 0:05:58.960 --> 0:05:59.920 big part of the marketplace. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:05.359 Yeah, it's I mean, the environment changes. But I you know, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.080 I grew up in a small business family and you 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.719 know it was just what it was bred into me, and. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.919 Well, you know, prom puting pressure on me it all zero. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.200 I mean, I remember ringing Roger Corbett when he was 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.520 putting up prices with the GST and and he was 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:27.880 putting it up ahead of the introduction's GST and I 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.680 said to him, I said, mister Corbett, if we need 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.440 to have a body swing from a light pole in 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.719 Martin Place and it's yours, then so be it. But 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.080 you're not putting up prices until we get rid of 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:39.919 all the other taxes. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.760 As you know, he was bullies, that's right, and he had. 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:50.000 To get people into all the Woolies overnight change thirteen 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.760 million tags. Had to remove it in a million price tags. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.800 Colonel Yeah, cost unfortunate, but you know that's the way 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.960 it should be. It's it's not intimidation of it's about 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:02.080 what's best with the Australian. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:07.640 So where has that changed, Joe. It's different today and 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:09.000 there might be a whole lot good reasons for it, 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.480 But where is that change in Australia. Why is it changed? 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.520 I don't know. I just I've always been that sort 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.320 of person. It's just, you know, maybe because I'm more 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.640 familiar with business. I grew up engaging with business at 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.200 a very young age. I was never really intimidated by business. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.800 I remember meetings with Kerry Packer when he wanted to 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.200 buy the Sydney Morning Hero remember, oh my god. In fact, 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:37.960 I was sharing that some of the stories. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:39.040 He doesn't hold back. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.800 No, well, it's funny, you know, I had caught up 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:48.000 with Kerry Stokes and we're reflecting on all those days 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.440 when all that media ownership law was changing, how the 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.600 Carrs went to war with each other, and it was 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.400 you know, it was a different environment. And see, I 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.720 think now business is more removed from politics, you know. 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.200 And I think that's right. 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.200 And part of it is shareholders say, you know, don't 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.800 engage with politicians, don't donate to politicians. So the danger 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.680 is you become removed from the people that are generating 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.000 the economy. And so I think bigger business is friendless, 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.880 and partly it's the fault. Overwhelmingly it's a fall of 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:26.560 big business because they stopped donating to the parties and therefore, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.960 you know, they're being called out for behavior and they've 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.520 got no friends. They saw that with the banking reforms 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.280 under Malcolm Turnbull. We see the way the mining companies 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.840 are treated today, you know. And it's very hard in 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.120 politics to go into bat for business if it's not 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.480 in the best interests of small business and consumers. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.520 You were you I'm not sure, but did you have 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.000 a small business under your portfolio? 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.880 I had, I had small business, not on that one. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.080 I was small business and tourism after that. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.920 Yeah, okay, I do remember having small business under your point. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.040 I loved it. I mean, in fact, I've started a 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:02.920 small business now and. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.040 It was actually not so small. But yes, yeah, but I. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.120 Mean I started, you know, filling out a bank application 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:08.719 form in. 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.320 The US, having up a bank well, and it's called 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.760 Bondo partners it is, and you're you're effectively putting parties 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.040 to parties, so you're. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.360 Yeah, it's the interaction between politics and business. And we've 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.679 got a consultancy arm, we've got a capital arm, we've 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:29.200 got an investment fund investing in companies in national security 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:33.040 in Australia, in the US and UK with and we've 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.640 we've got m and a advisory arm. We've got an 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.800 advocacy arm, and we're in Australia, the US, UK and Japan. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.679 We're just to say it looks very much in some respects, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.120 it looks very much like a very early stage mccuari 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.120 bank without being a bank in that McCrory group, I mean, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.400 not the bank part of the McCrory group part of it. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.040 You've got funds, you've got investments, you've got advisor, a 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.720 lot of advisory stuff. But you're sort of making markets 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.720 between people and regions. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.679 Well, it's hard going to another country and it's really expensive, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.480 particularly for SMS going to the United States. I mean 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.439 people think, for example, going to the United States is 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.240 just like going to Queensland. Well it's not. I mean, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.840 it's it's very different. And so same with the UK. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.400 They don't really understand. UK has always looked at the 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.320 EU rather than at the US, and and Americans coming 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.720 here have a little bit of a tinge of arrogance. 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.040 They know how to deal with it, just like going 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.640 to California. I mean, as I say to Americans, I say, 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.960 what are Australians like, I say, well, we're just like Californians, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.199 except we like America. That's difference. Oh yeah, okay, we 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:37.719 get it now. 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.280 And how much of that? How much of that, Joe, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.440 do you get a leg up from being the ambassador 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.840 because ambassadorship which you took on fifteen sixteen seventy Yeah, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.600 how much how much do you get out of that? 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.520 Yeah? For sure. But I mean it's look if I 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.760 was still a lawyer as I was way back, you know, 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:02.079 maybe i'd be. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.240 A partner at course, and yeah. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.079 And you know it would have been accounting for every 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:07.400 six minutes of my life. 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.679 And you'd be charging me. Well, actually, I used Mallicon's 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.800 recently and they charged me fifteen hundred bucks an hour. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.640 Well that's okay, that's good for you. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:19.880 Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, he's actually quite inexpensive. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:26.160 Yeah, yeah, certainly not that, but it's you know, I 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.720 just always felt the need to try and do something better. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.120 I felt the need to give and look, I just 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.840 enjoyed the US and after I finished his ambassador, I'm going, well, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:35.520 what do I do now? You know, I've had twenty 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.839 four years of public life. I don't want to be 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.960 a lobbyist or anything like that. I wanted to do 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.280 something more substantive, and we ended up doing you know, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:50.360 fantastic transactions in Australia's interests. Like you know, the biggest 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.840 telco in the Pacific was thinking of being selling itself 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.320 to the Chinese, and you know, I stepped in and 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.440 worked with the Australian government and the American government and 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.120 made sure or Telstra now owns it right, So things 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.320 like that were then in national security, we're investing in 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.520 the sort of companies that are going to keep our 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.640 kids safe. So that's that's my you know, there's got 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.240 to be that element to it to get me really 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.480 fired up. And yes, of course, all the knowledge I've 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.920 gained as ambassador or as treasurer or or any of them, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.040 I'm not going to deny that. That'd be ridiculous and 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:25.760 what I am. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.800 Yeah, but there's no point in not leveraging what you've done. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.439 What I see God, I mean, it's you know, if 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.120 you've been the world's best plumber, you're going to leverage that. 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:40.559 And this is you know, people often say to me, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.960 what's so and so like, Well Trump, what's Trump like? Well? 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.319 Trump is taking his experience as a New York property 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.239 developer and he's taking it to the White House. He's transactional, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.760 he does deals. You know, he's polite to people, even 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.880 the people that he competes against. But you know, he's 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:02.680 a hard, transactional person. And it's no different with Harris, 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.760 who's a prosecutor, and Kamala Harris has been a prosecutor 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.440 and a lawyer, and we all have you know, Barack 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.040 Obama comes across as a university lecturer, and that's what 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.480 he was. You know, he's a very good university. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.280 Can we talk about Trump? I'm sure you're sick of it, 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.599 but like you're here, so I got Orden wants to 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.480 talk about Trump. They want to hear about someone who 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.920 knows the guy for a start, and any of your 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.000 abassador role, you get to meet Trump because he was 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:30.640 a president during that period. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.080 We no, most ambassadors wouldn't have many. I mean you 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.000 meet the president when you become ambassador, you go and 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.559 present your credential, so you have a five minute meeting 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.640 with a president that time was Barack Obama. I met 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:47.120 Trump because he was running for office and my view 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.760 was he could win, and no one else had that view, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.040 and so I was lonely out there saying I want 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.000 to engage with the Trump campaign when no one else 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.240 would and he was considered, you know, an idiot, and 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.359 everyone said Clinton's going to win. And that's when the relationships. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:07.560 What do you think he was going to win? What 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:08.760 was it you saw in him? 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.439 Ah? You know, Mark, I like in our politics here 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.319 we talk about Betty Bankstown and we try and identify 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.360 the swing voter, the margall see voter, and who really mattered, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.680 how we going to win her over? And I took 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.280 that political experience in Australia and campaigns and said, what 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.600 who's the swing voter in America? And we came up 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:38.360 with Mary Milwaukee, Wisconsin, right. And I just when I 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.640 started to define in my own head and to the 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:46.920 embassy Mary Milwaukee, they started to understand that there was 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.640 something more than Clinton, something more than what was being offered. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.000 It was much more complicated. So Mary Milwaukee, and you know, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.280 this is sort of typical in one says forty five 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.200 years of age, earning fifteen dollars an hour for the 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.000 last ten years will mart In the checkout. You know, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.120 she has two kids, a boy that's probably done one 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.240 or two two is the duty of Afghanistan, probably has PTSD. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.920 She has a young daughter. She hopes one day we'ld 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.720 go to college, but she can't afford it. Her husband 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.800 is one of one and a half million truck drivers 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.400 in America that hasn't got a college degree. And she 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:29.320 goes to church Wednesdays and Sundays, which is typical in 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.880 the Midwest. You know, she pays the bills, She holds 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.440 the family together. She worries about security, the threat of 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.880 Fender all and every night on TV, the Colberts and 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.800 the Jimmy Kimmel's another laugh at her for going to church, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.480 for having traditional values, believing the marriage is between a 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.520 man and a woman. But you know, and they laugh 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.440 at her because she's yesterday, because they see her as yesterday, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.680 and they're really about, you know, more a different type 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.760 of Miera. And you know, Mary's there and she's going 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.960 hang on. Along comes Donald Trump and he's a very 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.520 successful person. But he's rude. I don't like that rudeness. 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.440 But you know what, he not only listens to me, 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.160 he's fighting for me. He says, you know, Mary, you 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.800 there's nothing wrong with going to church, or there's nothing 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.360 wrong with, you know, having a history of guns hand 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.440 through the generation. There's nothing wrong with, you know, having 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.480 an F one fifty pickup truck. There's nothing wrong with 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.680 not going to university. What's wrong with that? In fact, 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.920 I'm going to fight for you, Mary. And she said, 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.080 for the first time someone's come along and fall for me. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.440 And you know what, Mary, More white women voted for 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:51.040 Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen, and more 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.240 white women voted for Donald Trump than Joe Biden in 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.520 twenty twenty because he's suddenly saying I hear you and 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:59.360 I'm fighting for you. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.240 Was that just a clever strategy from his point of view? 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.080 Is it for real? Like, is he actually want to 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.800 fy for those people? Did he see them as someone's 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:08.440 going to give them back? 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.600 Yeah? No, I think he's authentic. And you know, authenticity 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.840 is the most valuable commodity in the twenty first century, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.280 whether it be in business or in politics or anything else. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.359 If you're authentic, you can't be fake, you can't lie. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:28.159 People see right through you. And so you know Trump, 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.320 of course he lies about facts and figures and sort 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.800 of stuff. But when he says, you know, I want 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.000 to get out of the war in Afghanistan, you know 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:39.560 he really wanted to get out of the war. When 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.800 he said I wanted to build the wall, he really 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.359 wanted to build the wall. And you know, whether you 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.919 agree with him or not, he actually delivered on his authenticity. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.119 You know, when he's not author I mean when he 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.280 gets up a rallies and says, look, my people say, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.680 I've got to try and win back the female voters. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:02.040 He's right, it's so transparent. He's got the speaking points, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.879 and he goes, yeah, here are the speaking points by 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.600 people give him. What do you think of that? That's 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.199 why ten, fifteen, twenty thirty thousand people bowl up to 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.400 his rallies all over America and one day he could 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.160 speak to eighty ninety thousand people, you know, just by 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.080 going rally to rally, and they keep coming out and 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.960 they keep hearing the same speech. Amazing. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.879 I once heard someone say that I think it was 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.600 I think it was Franklin. They said, might have been 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:35.920 I might know Roosevelt. I'm sure so Franklin did rese 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.800 it was the first president that got there through radio. 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.120 JFK was the first president. Was the TV president because 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.280 he looked a certain way and acted a certain way. 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.000 And Trump was the first social media president because you know, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.840 he's good at working social media. And I'm talking about 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.760 the time it would have been Twitter and those other things. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.120 sure she was working with And I was thinking to myself, 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.119 Kamala Harris right now seems to be the best to 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.159 TikTok like as a new version of social media, like 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.480 Trump doesn't sort of resonate with that audience. She seems 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.120 to be really good at that and everywhere I see 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.080 and I don't even know what she stands for. I 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.440 actually can't pinpoint of policy this stage. I haven't actually 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.800 heard to talk about it much policy, but she's bloody 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.080 good in front of the audience. In relation to that 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.840 particular form of social media, which everybody under thirty looks at. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.879 Well, she has successfully married an issue that's emotional and 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:34.800 important like abortion and the demographic that she really needs 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.560 to get out to vote, being women under the age 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.199 of forty, right, And she's used TikTok and Instagram and 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:48.720 everything else to get to basically prepare that demographic for 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.280 the battle of the election and to come out and 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.960 vote for her and volunteer for her, and then the 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.359 endorsement of Taylor Swift and others coming behind it. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.879 So do you think she's had to pick a fo 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.199 or pick an issue, because I've been hearing people say 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.639 it's about Albanezi lately. You've got to pick a five, You. 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.439 Got to define yourself. The thing is Harris has not 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.960 defined herself. So you know, bear this in mind. The 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:18.960 last election that we didn't have a Biden, a Bush 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:24.160 or a. Clinton was nineteen seventy six, nearly fifty years ago, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.639 and there's been one of those three names in every 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.959 presidential ballot since that time. So name recognition and that 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.679 doesn't even include Obama. So name recognition is hugely important, 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:39.639 especially when you have voluntary voting. So along comes Harris 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.800 Walls and it's really I'm gone a few weeks to 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.880 define itself. She's the first candidate since I think nineteen 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.920 sixty eight or something who hasn't gone through a primary. 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.840 So the American primary system basically introduces them to the 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.159 American people, and particularly the Democrats or the Republicans, and 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.840 millions of people go out and they spend multi millions, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.879 hundreds of millions of dollars on their campaigns. Harris hasn't 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:07.359 gone through that for this election. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:08.320 She went through it. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.600 Biden went through it, that's right, and Harris hasn't. So 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.760 she's an unknown to more people than you think. Now, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.439 the question in my mind is is she going how 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.520 does she differentiate herself from Biden? We know how she 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.399 differentiates herself from Trump. I mean, she's obviously looking different 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.200 than Trump, but how does she differentiate herself from Biden? 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.480 And that's a very tricky issue. So she's not she's 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.840 not making major policy announcements. She's done fewer press conferences 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.679 than any other candidate ever for president of the United 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:47.280 States since you had your media, and you know, everyone 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:52.320 else has defined her, defined her as the candidate she's done. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:57.879 Rather than Kamala Harris defining herself. Everyone else has defined her. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:02.240 Clinton's defined her. You know, Biden's to find Obamas to 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.639 find her. That's massive fire power. Oprah's to find her, 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.840 Taylor Swifts to find her, everyone else has to find her. 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.600 Whereas you know, really she still remains a bit of 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:14.360 a big policy mystery. 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:16.159 Do you think that's part Do you think that's the 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:17.280 thought out strategy? 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.560 Oh totally yeah, yeah. And you know, so they basically 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.600 bunkered down Biden in the twenty twenty election because of 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.240 COVID and that sort of worked and minimum press conferences, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.920 whereas Trump is all out there, you know, everywhere, spews 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:37.119 it out like he's accessible, you know, even seeing their 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.239 journalists tell me that, you know, he'll ring them at 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:43.359 odd hours and CNN is like the mortal enemy h Trump, 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.439 but he still rings those journals at odd hours to 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.119 say you ought to know this or you ought to 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.520 know that are well done. And he's very very open 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:56.639 and engaged. It's kind of interesting. He's privately he is 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:58.160 a curious mind. 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.080 I'm curious or curious himself. 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.520 No, curious. He asks a lot of questions, right, he says, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:08.760 you know, and they could be Oh gosh, the conversations 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.600 I've had, they've drifted from the Koala is going to 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:18.800 survive the bushfires through to you know, you know, is 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.640 Malcolm Turnbull really that rich? I mean yeah, like it's 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:26.200 really it's bizarre, so random, it's random, and they'll come out, 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.320 you jump from topic to topic and then he'll get 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.000 onto golf and you know or something like that. It's like, really, 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.440 he's got a very curious mind, and he listens carefully 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.520 and if he finds a bit of information, he likes 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:39.400 to grab onto it. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.360 What's a take to be a US president? Do you think? 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.200 I mean? Looking as an observer, I mean, because I'll 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:47.879 be honest, it doesn't seem like either one of them 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.439 are great candidates to me? Like sure, Like do I 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.320 would I if I was America, would I want either 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.240 one of them running my country? I'm not sure sure? 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.600 But what do you think it takes to be a 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.000 great president of the United States, And Mike could say 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:03.399 what I think, it takes me a great promister as 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.400 straight from what I've observed, but I don't know about 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:10.920 the United States. Look, it's the same thing. It's conviction, conviction, conviction. 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:14.840 You have to believe that you know you call it 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.600 and you call it right, and there'll be times when 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.560 you don't. And the hard part is knowing when you've 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:22.719 made a wrong call and you've got to change direction. 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:30.080 But a lot of the calls these days are critical calls. Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Gaza. 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:31.400 I mean, they're a bit China. 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.520 Yeah, it's the hardest job in the world president of 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.359 the United States. You know. One of the things that 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.919 struck me Mark when I was ambassador was how the 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:43.920 whole world expects America to fix their problems. Yeah, deep 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.159 dark Africa, someone's got a problem South America. There's a 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:52.159 battle between Brazil and Columbia, or Brazil and Peru, or 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.600 Chile or whatever. The US has got to fix it. 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.040 In the Caribbean, in Canada up in the northern border, 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.000 or in Europe, you know, two countries a fight, or 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:05.520 in the Pacific, you know, everyone expects America to solve 0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:09.840 their problems. And by the way, the US president has 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:12.360 to be a president for the United States as well, 0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:16.439 has to worry about healthcare, education, domestic violence, you know, 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.719 et cetera, et cetera. Immigration. I think it's just an 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.439 impossible job. I think it's an impossible job. And what 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:26.280 you have to do is set a tone and then 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:31.240 have conviction behind it. So the great conviction presidents like 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:37.920 Teddy Roosevelt or Franklin Delano Roosevelt or you know, I'd 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:43.560 put in there, you know LBJ, you know conviction, Yeah, 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.040 I'd put him in there. I think he's one of 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.800 the great US presidents, you know, for what his conviction 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:54.480 on breaking down the racial barriers in the US was phenomenal, 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.199 really was phenomenal. And then Ronald Reagan, of course, you know, 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:03.000 he's conviction, sense of purpose. He's you've got to clearly 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:05.439 know what's right and wrong, and he did that with 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:08.919 the Soviet Union when it was pretty tense. And so 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:14.920 conviction politicians are the people I most admire and I 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.879 find other best to work. John Howard was a conviction totally, 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:21.240 and Bob Hawk was a conviction. He knew where he 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.720 wanted to go. I think the Australia has been best 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:25.679 served by conviction leaders. 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:29.359 I was only saying the other day. Irrespective Hawk or Howard's, 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:33.000 they're different in politics in terms of which one's blue 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.800 ones red. But they were two of our best. 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.080 Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, I was privileged 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:41.560 to be in John Howard's cabinet. He promoted me very early, 0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:44.359 at a very young age. And you know, I wasn't 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.679 of the more conservative persuasion of the Live Party, so 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:50.800 he saw me a little like a black sheep, I think, 0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:57.480 but he was. He was magnanimous and he always listened. 0:26:57.560 --> 0:27:00.280 He was very good in listening to the Australia, as 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:02.639 was Hawky. Hawky was made of mine, a golf buddy, 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:06.840 and I'm not convinced, but I'm close to being convinced. 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:08.560 He actually might have voted for me on one or 0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:09.160 two occasions. 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:10.120 Really well, there. 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:14.000 Were some labor leaders he really didn't like, but I 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:20.800 don't know, but he he you know, they're just really wise. 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:25.240 They're good listeners. I find the best leaders in business 0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:29.920 or in politics, any discipline are good listeners. 0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:31.720 Yeah, that's very interesting, you should say, because I was 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.520 only talking I was only sort of complaining or moaning, 0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:37.920 whatever the world is the lack of policy of our 0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:40.560 current government. And I think it's I'm not having a 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:42.439 crack at them here. I think it's because of the 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:45.040 way politics, boys, Stone, who who is voting for you? 0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:48.040 Who you are representing? And they represent The Labor Party 0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.840 today in federal politics represents such a broad array of 0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:55.880 different people that's so broad it's a massive church for them, 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.920 whereas the Liberals more just conservatives, a little bit broad 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:03.200 than they were in the past, but no anear like labor. 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:06.119 And it must be virtually impossible for the Labor to 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:07.760 be able to say this for everybody. Therefore, don't make 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:08.240 it any well. 0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:10.919 And that's why the primary voter is thirty one percent. 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:13.560 I mean Labor. You know, mate, I'm going to tell 0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:15.920 you when we're in politics. When I was in politics 0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:20.080 not that long ago, we formed the view that we 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:23.880 had to have a primary voter forty four to win government. 0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:28.200 Labor needed a primary voter forty one forty two. Labor's 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:33.359 currently polling thirty one. Yeah, now you know you're having 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:37.680 your meal eaten away by all these the Greens, the Teals, 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:40.640 where the Liberal Party had it with the Teals. But 0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:43.560 still we're getting close to forty Still got a way 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:46.040 to go to get up to forty four. But you see, 0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:51.000 it's just you know, social media has changed it. You 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:54.000 know what social media has done is it's made the 0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:56.400 voice of the critic much louder than the voice of 0:28:56.440 --> 0:29:00.800 the advocate. Yeah, and you know I sort of thump 0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:02.920 the table when I read in a paper or something 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:06.360 or online someone say, oh, well, we need the government 0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:10.040 to lay down this reform. Actually, you know, if you 0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.520 come out and you have the biggest tax policy change, 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:16.320 you can say today, it'll be yesterday's news. By tomorrow, 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.560 everyone overnight would be smashing it on social media and 0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:23.440 you just go, okay. So my view today is the 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:28.040 best government is the one that interferes the least in 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:29.480 your life. 0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:31.520 May a regulatory center. 0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:35.520 Your regulatory sense and taxation sense on. You know that, Like, 0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:38.400 don't get the government to solve your problem, you get 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:40.479 the opportunity to solve your problem and get the government 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.040 out of the way. I mean, you know, look, we're 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:44.000 talking about housing this. 0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:45.200 I was going to say housing. 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:47.960 Housing is a great example. Mate. I don't know if 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:49.360 you've done a renovation. 0:29:49.000 --> 0:29:52.000 Lately I've done I did when I a budget both 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:52.600 four times. 0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:56.880 Mate, I'm railing gainst this. I want to put up 0:29:56.920 --> 0:30:01.440 a car port, single car port in my backyard. It 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:03.800 costs four thousand dollars and I've been told I have 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:05.680 to go to council. It's going to cost me seven 0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:07.280 thousand dollars to go to council just. 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:07.760 For the council. 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.280 For the council, I have to put in a DA 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:13.840 for it, right because it's a heritage Erry, I'm going, 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:16.960 I'm just putting up a temporary car pot And you're going, 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:20.320 why do I bother? Right? Like, so you're not going 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:23.479 to get more construction of housing if you're spending a 0:30:23.600 --> 0:30:26.240 vast amount of money on red tape and green tape. 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.240 And I know where this comes from. Everyone's trying to 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:32.520 mitigate risk. Well, we've got to be prepared to take risk. 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:35.440 We're the consumer. 0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:36.560 You have to have some risk. 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:38.960 Yeah, but how can we say to the government department 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:40.640 you don't need to take the risk, will take it? 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.480 Yeah? Well that's the point. It comes back to personal 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:46.360 responsibility and the fact that you do take a risk. 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:48.440 I'm not saying you don't have das of course, you do, 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:50.560 and you've got to have communities and so on. But 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.160 there's just it's just ridiculous the amount of paperwork, and 0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:59.040 then you know it adds to the cost of everything. 0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:02.440 And plumbers and electricians we haven't got enough of them. 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:06.200 They're getting tired. They're fantastic the trade is, you know, 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.040 and the quality of the work they do is often 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:11.640 very good in Australia, but they're tired. I mean they're 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:13.640 hitting sixty and you're crawling under a house to do 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.760 the plumbing or the electricals right, and you can't get 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.600 people to do it. So I think that's just, you know, 0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:23.200 somehow we've got to let the market have a solution 0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.680 to some of these issues, and you know that means 0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:31.480 freeing up land, having you know, potential for more high 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:35.160 rise et cetera, et cetera. But you know it's highly contentious. 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:40.520 You during your treasurer period did have something to say 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:44.920 about need of gearing. You did have something to say 0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:48.680 about negative gearing during your of course, and I have to, 0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:52.640 and I will be honest, I did do an article 0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:55.920 with the AFI some years before that and I said, 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:58.880 I actually said negative gearing is actually not good policy. 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:04.120 But there's not good economic policy. Right, But I said 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:07.080 to be silly to get rid of it, because it's 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.320 too indentured into our system today. 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:14.800 So here's a solution, negative gearing, gratuitous advice forty thousand 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:20.880 feet or thirty thousand dollars and washed it right. Negative 0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:25.120 gearing is a tool used to encourage investment in income 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:31.480 producing assets. Right and treasurers are both persuasions. The liberal 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:38.680 have skewed the taxation system towards favoring investment in equities 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:44.520 over investment in real estate. Why because, as an economist 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:48.400 will tell you, a dollar that goes into an old home, 0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.560 right is a dollar that has sort of lost forever 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.960 until you sell the home. Whereas you put a dollar 0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:59.440 into BHP, they'll take that dollar, they'll buy new equipment, 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:02.040 build a new mine, and they'll give you a return. 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:04.720 So the question is how do we get real estate 0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:09.600 to become productive? Now? Of course, the productive real estate 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:12.680 is when you're building new homes that's employing people. That 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:16.600 money is at work until it's done, and then it's 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:20.400 not at work. Right. So that's why on real estate 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:23.719 we still have land tax, we still have stamp duty, 0:33:24.360 --> 0:33:30.120 and on shares you've got franking credits, you've got no 0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:33.240 stamp duty, you've got no land tax. So it's the 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:37.720 taxation system is skewed. Still, negative gearing, the same economic 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:42.160 tool applied to real estate applied to shares, but the 0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.800 shares are far more attractive than the real estate. Right. 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:51.400 So because real estate, if you take away negative gearing 0:33:51.440 --> 0:33:54.400 on investment, real estate rents are going to go up. 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.040 It's as simple as that, right. And in other countries 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:01.800 they have rent control, rent subsidies. Well, we can't do that, 0:34:01.800 --> 0:34:05.240 that's ridiculous. The market is at play. But if you 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:10.680 really want to get more housing, double double or perhaps 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:14.839 increase by fifty percent, the negative gearing entitlement on new 0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:18.480 real estate. So there's an incentive to go and buy 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:20.000 new real. 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:21.759 Estate money into the system. 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:25.959 Exactly the jobs going, It gets the housing construction going. 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.600 And plus you know it helps to subsidize the new 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:31.239 housing for people that really need it. 0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:32.920 And what about the couple of gains tax on the 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:33.719 other end, because. 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:36.160 I wouldn't change the capital gain tax range. 0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:37.040 The discount as it is. 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:39.399 Yeah, well it's not even a discount. I mean, it's 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:44.279 competitive with other countries. And you know, in the United States, 0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:47.560 for example, they have increased tax so high that everyone 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:51.800 keeps rolling their money intill the capital gains tax opportunity arrives. 0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:54.400 It's a bit the same in your own business in Australia, 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.200 you'll keep rolling the money in because if you take 0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.000 it as as income you pay fifty percent. If you 0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:03.200 sell your business, you only paid twenty five percent of them. 0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:06.000 Which is true, but that way so so do you. 0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:09.759 But do you think that this government? I mean, I've 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:11.920 noticed that Paul Keating has been getting stuck into his 0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:15.080 own party and Bill Kelty more recently is even way 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:20.600 he goes, yes, let's do it. But that's unusual for labor. 0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:25.440 It's they're usually pretty staunch like. Keating has had at 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:27.440 a lot of cracks and a lot of things that 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:28.880 have been going. I've actually tried to get him on 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:33.080 the show, but particularly in relation to our relationship with 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.960 China and also in relation to Aucust, he's been quite. 0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:38.560 His old garland that he is wrong. 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:42.120 What do you think about that? And what do you 0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:43.360 think about his commentary? 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:47.560 Oh look, I think Paul Ketting was a pioneer and 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:48.719 number of areas, but he's just. 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:53.680 Dead wrong economically one hundred percent the super supernovation guarantee, 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:57.600 good thumbs up, you know, the you know, like the deregulation. 0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:00.000 He's just a great flooding. 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:04.600 All those things. Yeah, is dead wrong, dead wrong and 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:10.799 the wrong motivations. I mean, China is you know, first 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:14.120 and foremost about Beijing's We don't share values with China. 0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:16.840 I mean, I've got many Chinese friends. I had a 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:21.560 great relationship with the Chinese government over many years. But 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.800 I understand this. You know, their first priority in China 0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:27.960 is the welfare of the Communist Party. They're not our 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:32.080 friend when it comes to values. You know, the UK 0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:35.680 and the US are our friend. There are allies. They've 0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:39.799 shared blood for us, We've shared blood for them. That's 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.640 where it goes. And then the only country in the 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:47.440 world that is successfully marrying capital with innovation on a 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:51.480 grand scale as a US. So from an economic perspective, 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:55.719 the US is as much opportunity as China, if not 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.640 more as is you know with the emergency of India 0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:02.480 and all the others. But the BTTOM line is the 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:09.040 US is our closest friend. Our integration in their security 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:13.200 system and their integration NOWS means that you know, of 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:18.560 the last thirteen attempted terrorist tax in Australia, probably eight 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:20.880 or nine would have been thwarted with the help of 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:26.000 US intelligence agencies, you know, and may share a lot 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:31.080 of intelligence. They've got sixteen intelligence agencies, and I would 0:37:31.080 --> 0:37:34.480 say we're embedded in most of them. And then when 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:36.879 it comes to the military, at various times we've had 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:41.120 military personnel and up to thirty two US states and 0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:44.160 people don't know about it. And then they're embedded with US. 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:46.680 And I tell you what, I'd rather have them with 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:57.920 US than any other country in the world. 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:04.799 It's funny. I interviewed Trump and when was that. I 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.839 interviewed him in twenty sixteen. He gave me a half 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:14.440 hour half our interview and he railed against China. And 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.480 I got quite nervous because sixteen was a period when 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:19.440 you were around and China was our biggest trading partner. 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:21.279 It was big emerging as the biggest trading part They 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:25.279 might have just got a head for sure, and I 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:26.600 was sort of trying to think, well, this is not 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:27.960 going to let this is not going so good. You look, 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:31.600 I'm gona get a bit nervous. But he didn't hold back, 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:33.879 and he said sort of the same type of thing 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:36.560 as you, not suggesting it the same. But he talked 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:40.360 about values, the Chinese values relative to our values, relative 0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:42.640 to the American values, and fair. 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:44.480 Enough, that's what they are. But I mean, if you 0:38:44.600 --> 0:38:47.359 look at look, just look at the history, right, and 0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:54.040 it's really important. You know, China, China, Russia, and the 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:58.839 US all were born out of revolutionary wars. All three 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:04.120 countries really had big revolutionary wars, and then they followed 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.080 up with big civil wars. And what happens in the 0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:11.319 civil war is no one trusts their neighbor anymore. It's 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:14.560 something you you can go years and years and generations, 0:39:14.600 --> 0:39:15.879 but at the end of the day, you don't really 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:18.279 trust the person next door or the person on the 0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:21.680 other side of the country. So in China and Russia, 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:26.600 head office Moscow and Beijing rule with an iron fist. 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:30.800 That's how they keep control and so on. In the US, 0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:35.640 they fear Washington running with the ruling with an iron fists. 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:39.560 So that's the constitution. That's why Americans proudly are still 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:44.000 state based. They rail against Washington. That's why Trump has 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:48.279 that right, has that capacity. He's railing against Washington. He's 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:52.600 not of the establishment and Americans feel that sense of comfort. 0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:55.480 Australia is a bit the same. They rail against Canberra. 0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.120 We're sort of more agreeable to Canberra, but we're sort 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:00.920 of railey. We don't want it to use our power 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.680 to camera. And that's why states rights are still very 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:09.920 powerful here and on. On China, Trump is very consistent. 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:12.680 He has been very consistent. Of course, he says I'll 0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:14.400 deal with the President and do a deal and a 0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:18.040 great deal. But the bottom line is, you know, they're 0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:20.960 different values and that's. 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:24.320 Really important, and it's okay to accept that, by the way. 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:27.399 Yeah, correct, Yeah, the Chinese to understand that. That's why 0:40:27.400 --> 0:40:30.160 they still buy our iron ore and our coal and 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:32.399 everything else. They and you know, that's why they want 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:35.120 to They want to get on with this. They're pragmatic. 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.720 And by the way, they've got a lot of domestic 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:41.680 problems in China as well. So I don't think that it's. 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:43.560 All particularly economically economic. 0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:47.040 Absolutely. I mean, when I was Treasurer, you know that 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:50.360 I had a great relationship with Loji waih, the Finance 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:52.640 Minister of China, and he rang me out one name 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:54.200 and said, look, you Joe, I've got to put a 0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:56.719 tariff on your coal and I said, but we're about 0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.200 to sign a trade agreement where you abolish the tariffs. 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:01.560 He said, I've got a few domestic issues. It's only 0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:05.239 going to be for six months. I said, okay, in 0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:08.040 todays what what what? What? 0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:08.520 What do you think? 0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:08.719 Then? 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:12.200 What's your inside around What does Scott say that really 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:14.919 got them upset? Because you know, whilst we're talking about 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.840 the values of China and Australia and they accepted, they're 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:21.040 practically understand it. What was it that really got up? 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:25.759 It was unquestionably calling for a global inquiry into the 0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:30.440 source of COVID, so blaming and China was very embarrassed 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.640 about COVID, as they should be. I mean, you think 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:38.439 about it, no event in the history of humanity has 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:43.279 affected every single household on the face of the. 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:46.200 Earth except COVID, except COVID. 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:49.799 Isn't that amazing? I mean we've had wars, and we've 0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:54.480 had you know, famines and you know environmental events. But 0:41:54.520 --> 0:41:58.640 the only event that went to every single house, every 0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:01.480 single home, every single on the face of the earth 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.480 was COVID and China was responsible. 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:06.160 Do you think for sure? 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.919 Of course? Yeah, I mean it's absolutely, there's no doubt 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:12.280 about it. But you know, I think Scott Morrison calling 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:15.960 for a confirmation of that yeah, was just you know, 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:19.880 China is all about face, right, very much about face, 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:23.160 and that was seen as comfortation. He was right to 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:24.560 do it. It was the right thing to do, he said. 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:25.719 I was going to say, do you think that? 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:27.800 Yeah? Of course, yeah. 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:30.200 But the punishment did befit the crime though? 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.160 How did they punish it? They didn't buy some wine, 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:33.839 they didn't buy. 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:35.800 Lobsters sorry, some lobsters. 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:38.759 Yeah, we had cheap loobbies for a long time. 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:42.920 But because and do you think that Trump then plays 0:42:42.960 --> 0:42:45.040 it right? Then when in terms of how he talks 0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:48.160 about China adding Paris, everything is going to. 0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:51.719 Come to I mean, that's he's playing a race card. 0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:53.640 Is that is that a good Is that a good 0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:55.120 narrative to win an election? 0:42:56.840 --> 0:42:59.279 Well? I'd hope not, but you know it is what 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:02.319 it is something It's long been that sort of. 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.080 What do you think is in that effect of Trump 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.120 wins economically? 0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:14.000 I'm well, his policies, Ah, I don't know if their 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:19.040 policies or their thoughts, but the amount of announcements he's made, 0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:23.960 if he were deliver them on tax cuts, tariffs and 0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:26.320 everything else would be diabolical. 0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:28.839 In what regard economic economically. 0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:33.600 I mean, the US is just running a massive deficit. 0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:37.920 It's borrowing from the rest of the world. Congress keeps 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:42.480 approving these big deficit of budgets to the extent that, 0:43:43.080 --> 0:43:45.560 you know, if the US dollar is not the reserve 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:48.920 currency of the world, they're screwed. So then there's nothing 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:51.520 else at the moment. But you know, they're screwed. So 0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:58.600 the US, you know, can't sustain that. Trump's making it worse. 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.440 He said he's he's going to reduce company tax to 0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:04.879 fifteen percent. He said, to go even further. He said 0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:08.960 he's going to carry on the tax cuts at sunset 0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:13.719 next year, but he could go further. He has come 0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:16.680 out and said credit card interest rates are too high. 0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:19.400 We're going to cap it at ten percent. Sounds great, 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:24.319 but how does that work? Right? He's come out and 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:26.799 he said he won't have a ten percent tariff on China. 0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:29.040 He's going to have a sixty percent tariff on China. 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:31.240 So that's inflationy oh Man. 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.319 Inflation goes through the roof because America has I think 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:38.520 it's about a five hundred billion dollars trade deficit with China. Well, 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:41.719 that means they're bringing it in, right, they're not manufacturing. 0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:43.960 And even if in the US they would going to 0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:48.719 manufacture it, they couldn't build that manufacturing overnight. So they're 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:51.800 going to suddenly have you know, a sixty percent increase 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:53.560 in the price of five hundred billion dollars worth of 0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:55.439 goods flows through the ecomomic. 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:58.000 High and ends up here too, because we import that inflation. 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.239 Of course we do, we import it, But what do 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:04.160 mean crash out the US dollar? And you're starting to 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:08.120 see that, you know, with interest rates coming down the 0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:10.080 US you're saying, you know, it's a great trade at 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:13.920 the moment, buying the Aussie selling the US, but it'd 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:16.960 go you know, she had the head towards parody. 0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:19.480 What about if she wins the Well, I. 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:21.840 Mean, I don't know much better because she's talking about 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:25.960 price controls and even derry. Yeah, she said she's going 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:29.239 to price control groceries and everyone's going, how is that 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:32.400 going to work? And that was the last economic policy 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:35.279 she announced, and it's sort of faded off a bit, 0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:40.200 so no one quite knows what her economic policies are. 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:41.880 Can I just switch direction? A little bit now and 0:45:41.920 --> 0:45:44.120 just talk about Australia because you know we're unless you're 0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:46.560 coming up, and we've got you know, we've got the RBA. 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:47.960 We've always got lecture coming up. 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.080 We seen to her. By the way, that seems to 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:52.360 be a problem to me. You know, they did two reds. 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.759 We do have stability. I mean, I'm really impressed with 0:45:54.880 --> 0:45:59.600 both the Labor Party and the Liberal Party having leadership stability, thank. 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:02.360 God, talking in terms of Dunton and Albaniz. 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:03.560 And they're respectful of it. 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:05.960 Do you do you think ALBANIZI does have stability to 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:10.160 do you think Jim's sit there? I mean that article 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:12.520 that that storyline aitive that was written this week that 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:16.200 Jim sort of love that Treasury paper out on negative 0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:17.680 gearing just when you happened to be going over. 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:19.120 The Treasure has cop out all the time. 0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:22.560 They well, do you know how it works? So how 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:24.359 did it work? How does that work? So just would 0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.120 if the Treasury, the Department of Treasury is doing some 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:29.920 research on a topic, would they are they likely to 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:32.720 be doing it on their own or would the Treasure 0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:33.600 have asked them to do it? 0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:35.480 Yeah, well it's a bit of both. 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:39.319 It's a gray area. Well, because you're in business today, 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:40.120 you've got to be careful. 0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:42.680 No, no, no, no, it's a gray area. I asked 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:44.560 Treasury when I was there, I said, do me a 0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:47.200 tax options paper, but let me tell you what I'm 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:50.000 not going to do one, two, three, four five, And 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.600 they came up with not. I released it and you know, 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:59.120 nothing was implemented, so you know it varies. Of course, 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:03.120 from a budget perspective, you'll have options. So when it 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:05.520 comes to spending money, you bring in all your colleagues 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.880 and you have an expenditure Review Committee and the Finance 0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:12.439 Minister is cracking the gavel and so on. But when 0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:13.880 it comes to revenue racing. 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:14.960 It's just the treasure. 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:18.759 Oh yeah, I think that's not about idea money the 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:22.880 Prime Minister in In fact, when I was writing my 0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:26.239 first budget speech, Tony Abbit said, mate, mate, you're going 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:27.839 to send it to me, I'd like to have some 0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:33.280 input into the speech. I said no, really, I said no, no, no. 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:35.920 I consulted previous treasures and I said no, you don't 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:37.960 chart to the primary it's your speech. 0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:39.359 And what was Abbot like to work with? 0:47:39.440 --> 0:47:43.640 He was great, Yeah, yeah, he's a very very decent guy. 0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.799 He's quite intelligent, very smart. 0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:51.960 Very smart, he's sharp, He's a very decent guy. I wish, 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:55.480 you know, I wish the public had to send the 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:58.960 Tony Abbot that I know. You know, he comes across 0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:02.840 as a sort of warrior and you know, traditionalists and 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:04.719 all that sort of stuff. But there's another Tony Abbot 0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:08.720 that people don't know, and he is a very selfless person. 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:12.560 He's a very decent human. 0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.440 Man and as far as I'm aware, definitely not a misogynist, 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:19.759 which is what trying to make out. 0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:22.040 He was in the chamber for that speech, and you know, 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:26.799 it's been embellished and you know, become sort of an 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:30.279 iconic for a certain cohort in the community. But he's not. 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:34.560 He's not, I mean, but he suffered the same fate 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:36.920 as Trump. He should have had more diversity in the 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:40.400 cabinet and Trump should have probably run with it. He 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:43.120 would be doing better if he had a female vice president. 0:48:44.360 --> 0:48:46.880 And when you look at politics today, I mean the 0:48:46.920 --> 0:48:49.600 bare pit, the bare pit part of politics, do you 0:48:49.640 --> 0:48:52.640 think it's descended into it into in a worse territory 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:53.680 than it was when you were around? 0:48:53.800 --> 0:48:56.160 Or was I miss question? 0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:57.040 Tom Dear? 0:48:57.480 --> 0:49:00.359 I loved question Tom, and you know it's so good, 0:49:00.400 --> 0:49:04.120 it's so accountable. Other parliaments. You know, I've got friends 0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:06.720 in the British Parliament and all parliaments around the world 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:11.000 and they just can't believe the Australian Parliament and you 0:49:11.040 --> 0:49:12.880 know what, the accountability is extraordinary. 0:49:12.960 --> 0:49:14.400 What do you mean they can't believe. What's the difference? 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:16.840 Well, because because you walk in, you don't know what 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:20.600 the questions are and it's brutal. I mean I remember, 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:25.440 you know, I remember when the GESC was being introduced. 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:28.720 I was responsible for that and I got ten questions 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:33.920 in a row in question time and I'd like exhaust it, 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:38.040 like it's like, you know, seriously flagellation on a grand scale. 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:41.360 And everyone be going, God, ten questions, how did you 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:43.480 do that? You know? And then I go and next 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:45.600 day I get ten more questions. I remember John Howard 0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:48.200 slapping me on the back and saying, oh, you're losing 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:50.279 a bit of bark, but you'll be okay, you know, 0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:52.600 and I'm like, God, was like, how do I do it? 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.279 And you get the adrenaline before question time. You see, 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.040 got to be on top of your brief because not 0:49:58.120 --> 0:50:01.080 only do the opposition, find out your own colleagues work out, 0:50:01.120 --> 0:50:03.160 and then the gallery and everyone else knows. You're not 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:05.560 on top of your brief. So you need to know 0:50:05.840 --> 0:50:09.160 everything about your portfolio. And when you're the Treasurer and 0:50:09.200 --> 0:50:13.680 the Prime Minister, you need to know particularly so you know, 0:50:13.840 --> 0:50:17.960 when I delivered the fourteen budget that everyone still talks about, well, 0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:21.440 I was a great budget and the fourteen budget, you know, 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:25.160 I said, I went on Q and A by myself 0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:31.720 on the ABC Q and A by myself, and everyone 0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:34.600 thought I was going to fail, and I was. It 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:37.520 was Penwrith panthers, six hundred people. Apparently it was one 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:38.920 of the highest ever rating Q. 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:41.160 And as a friend environment Q and A. 0:50:41.280 --> 0:50:43.400 No, I wasn't a friendly environment, but I had to 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.560 show that I was on top of my brief. And 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:49.080 I have never in my life ever got such a 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:52.840 big response as I did after that, from people saying, wow, 0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:56.239 that was you know, really important, really great you did it, 0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:58.960 and great performance and all that sort of stuff, because 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:03.279 you had the opportunity shine in adverse circumstances, and in 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:07.239 Parliament you can shine and get a message across when 0:51:07.239 --> 0:51:10.600 it's most hostile. It's not you can't create that environment. 0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:12.640 I got a sense that you're missing a bit of it. 0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:15.880 I miss question time. I mean I don't mind that, 0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:19.839 you know, I don't mind the tough questions and so on, 0:51:20.360 --> 0:51:22.160 like I want to be on top of my game. 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:27.439 And you know, but America would be so much better 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:30.480 if it had its cabinet subject to that cross examination 0:51:30.560 --> 0:51:32.120 on the floor of Congress. They do it a bit 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:34.480 in the Senate hearings and so on, but you know, 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:38.400 that's just one hour every four months, six months, you know, 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:41.880 whereas question times every day of Parliament. Sitting in the 0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:44.120 British Parliament, they again, they don't do it every day. 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:46.920 They have Prime Minister's questions once every two weeks or 0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:50.040 one week or something like that. So I think Australia 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:53.719 has a great democracy and great accountability. It's one of 0:51:53.760 --> 0:51:57.040 the reasons why we've got so little corruption. That's why 0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:00.880 we do have a really good police system. 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.120 And if I was to ask you now, Joe said, 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:07.080 it's only based on what you know so far. What 0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:10.000 do you think will happen in the election next year Australia. 0:52:11.320 --> 0:52:16.400 Oh, well, it's obviously going to be close. Firstly, do 0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:19.880 not believe that a government cannot lose in the first term. 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:20.560 It can. 0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:26.600 And Anthony Alberese wasn't elected with the majorities that Howard 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:29.840 had in ninety six, that rud had in two thousand 0:52:29.840 --> 0:52:32.759 and seven, or that Abbott had in twenty thirteen. We 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.040 had twenty thirty seats. He's got I think five or 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:39.280 six right, so you can lose very quickly. The second 0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:41.600 thing is you've got to have an agenda, and I 0:52:41.640 --> 0:52:44.359 think Peter Dutton has done a great job and rolling 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:48.880 out the agenda controversial at times, but everyone it really 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.080 does know what Peter Dutton stands for. And I think 0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:54.920 and Anthony Alberz he's a very decent guy. I mean, 0:52:55.360 --> 0:52:57.560 he's a made of mind to be honest, and you know, 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:01.799 he's a very he needs to have something that he's 0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:04.920 going to fight for. And the hardest election I ever 0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:10.439 forore Man, you remember it GST election eight, Oh my god, 0:53:10.520 --> 0:53:13.719 and it was just absolute conviction. I just like to 0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:17.440 I couldn't stand. I was campaigning and when the butcher 0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.440 at Cameray told me, you know, he grilled me on 0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:23.759 the GST for like an hour and a half and 0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:27.200 on one vote and I'm working over time. He speaks 0:53:27.239 --> 0:53:29.520 to people that come in. And then he said, I 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:31.560 hate the bloody thing. I'm not going to I'm not 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:33.400 going to support it. And then as I'm walking out, 0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.400 he said, oh all right, I'll vote for you. I 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:39.839 thought I was just exhausted, right, and I thought, oh 0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:42.160 my god, if we've had the courage to go to 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:46.480 the electorate with something that is unpopular but it's absolutely 0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:48.600 the right thing for Australian. When we won, I was 0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:52.560 so elated more than any other time because I restored 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:54.279 my faith in the Australian popular. 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:59.080 So would you think that? But what what controversial topic 0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:02.600 or controver a sure conviction that either one of the 0:54:02.600 --> 0:54:05.480 parties should be going to the election with. I mean, 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:07.799 I mean, as nuclear is one, But what other thing 0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:09.720 is there something that you reckon would be a winner? 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:13.839 Well, I think you've got to show Australians how you're 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:17.719 going to make their lives better, what's for me? And well, yeah, 0:54:17.760 --> 0:54:20.359 that's right, and that's fair enough. I mean, that's that's 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:24.160 the world we've grown up in living. And but the 0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:28.240 thing is, it's not always going to be ice cream 0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:31.719 and lollies. Sometimes you're going to have your veggies and 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:34.440 it's the courage to say to people, actually, we're going 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:37.319 to have to do some hard yards here. Now. I 0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:42.160 admit twenty fourteen my budget, you know, I tried to 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:46.600 do that, and what people said, you know, maybe it 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:49.399 was my failure, maybe it was our failure, whatever the case, 0:54:49.440 --> 0:54:54.000 maybe it didn't prepare the ground. But in that budget, 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:58.480 you know, think of it. I was, I was, I 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:01.839 was murder for a five dollar co payment to go 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:02.600 and see a doctor. 0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:05.959 This is a sterity period, yeah, yeah. 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:07.600 And I said, if we don't fix the roof now 0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:10.000 while the sun shining, then we're going to end up 0:55:10.000 --> 0:55:13.680 in work shape for and like you know what happened. Now, 0:55:13.800 --> 0:55:16.160 how much does it cost to go and see a doctor? Right? 0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:19.719 Forty dollars? Fifty dollars? People are telling me, yeah, that's right. 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:22.640 If we had have got that through, it would have 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:26.759 had some semblance of co payment. And by the way, 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:29.239 six million people were excluding from any payment, right, so 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:32.840 that was lost and then you know, more of a 0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:35.480 work for the doll and a few things that we 0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:39.440 had a lot of them actually went through from the 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:42.319 fourteen budget. It just took a few years. But there 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:45.160 are other things. You look at Western Sydney airport that 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:48.520 was that budget. No government had the balls to do 0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:54.040 it for fifty sixty years, and the Abbot Hockey government did. 0:55:54.440 --> 0:55:56.839 And now, I mean I was so proud. I saw 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:01.680 Albert Easy yesterday say yes, I'm so proud of that. Right, 0:56:01.800 --> 0:56:05.120 I'm so proud of it. West Connects, Stage two, some 0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:08.560 of these things around Sydney. Every city in Australia got 0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:13.480 some infrastructure. The Medical Research Future Fund. I nearly died 0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:16.120 trying to get that up and it got up. Now 0:56:16.400 --> 0:56:20.440 when I hear a maid of mine who's a professor 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:23.759 an eye surgery, he's now he got forty million dollars 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:28.400 from that fund to build an eye and he's close 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:31.080 to it. He's really, that's exactly what we're doing. We're 0:56:31.080 --> 0:56:33.480 investing in our health. So there are things you do 0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:36.880 in politics. And I'd love my children to go into politics. 0:56:36.920 --> 0:56:41.040 I'd love anyone's children, anyone to go into politics. Is 0:56:41.200 --> 0:56:44.279 you can make a difference, you really can. And you 0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:46.480 know what, They're not going to build monuments to you, 0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:49.160 but you just got to look around and you see 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.680 a better quality of life and that's all worth it 0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:52.320 for everyone. 0:56:52.600 --> 0:56:54.239 And quick prediction in the US. 0:56:54.920 --> 0:56:56.160 Made too close to call. 0:56:56.440 --> 0:56:57.720 I mean, oh, it's that close. 0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:03.600 It is really that close. So because of the electoral system, 0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:07.320 Harris needs to win the national vote by about three percent, 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:10.520 two to three percent. She's polling two one and a 0:57:10.520 --> 0:57:15.680 half to two I have on the If enthusiasm were 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:22.640 the pole, she'd be through the roof Trump. I think 0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:26.280 of everyone that's going to vote for Harris is going 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:29.080 to tell you. I reckon five out of one hundred 0:57:29.120 --> 0:57:31.720 that are voting for Trump won't tell you. And that's 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:32.880 been proven in the past. 0:57:33.120 --> 0:57:34.360 So therefore polls aren't correct. 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:37.440 Now his poles are not correct. I think hers are 0:57:37.440 --> 0:57:40.680 probably correct where she's at, but I think they're underestimating 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:44.840 him by varying from place to place one to three percent. 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:47.840 Because people are not ashamed, but maybe embarrassed. 0:57:47.400 --> 0:57:49.080 To Also they don't want to tell it because they 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:52.280 fear they're going to be, you know, ostracized and smash. 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:55.880 I mean twenty twenty, I remember speaking to people in 0:57:55.920 --> 0:58:01.560 the richest area of Houston and they said, come down 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:03.160 and that was one of the rare places you could 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:09.080 go during that period, and they're all, you know Biden signed. 0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:12.040 I said, Oh my god, I said, if Biden's you know, 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:14.920 he's going to rob at home if this demography and 0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:16.880 they said, oh god, we never put a Trump sign up, 0:58:17.280 --> 0:58:19.440 would be our house would be egged and everything else. 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:23.640 That area voted seventy percent Trump. Wow, So you know, 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:28.480 like it's it's it's a very hard to read. I 0:58:28.480 --> 0:58:33.800 mean Wisconsin last election, they underestimated Trump's vote by five 0:58:33.880 --> 0:58:37.040 percent in two thousand and six and it was about 0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:41.400 seven percent. You know, they underestimated it. So and Wisconsin 0:58:41.560 --> 0:58:46.360 is a key state. So I think it's incredibly close. 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:50.000 And the House and the Senate are incredibly close as well. 0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:53.920 So you know, I met with a delegation this morning. 0:58:53.920 --> 0:58:57.480 The two Republicans told me they thought it's probable that 0:58:57.640 --> 0:59:03.040 Harris might win. And the two Democrats me, they thought, there. 0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:05.120 You go and joe Es fine, mate, are you enjoy 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:05.680 your life? 0:59:06.000 --> 0:59:10.120 Oh? Man I am. I like it's you know, I've 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:13.440 been blessed. Mane. I'm the son of a Palestinian refugee 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:16.760 came to Australia, never thought he'd ever get a chance 0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:20.200 to live a life. Met a pix model from BONDI 0:59:21.120 --> 0:59:22.680 got to name my firm Bondi. 0:59:22.440 --> 0:59:25.280 Apartment Peaks Pias model being the amazing Peak magazine picks. 0:59:25.440 --> 0:59:26.560 Yes it was. 0:59:26.760 --> 0:59:28.680 They were always in the barbershop and in the dentists, 0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:29.200 in the doctor well. 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:33.480 It was respectable those days. It was like fashions in 0:59:33.520 --> 0:59:37.000 the nineteen thirties and the nineteen forties, from nineteen forties 0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:40.200 and fifties. And I wouldn't you know. I pinched myself 0:59:40.200 --> 0:59:42.440 how lucky I am. And you know when I go 0:59:42.520 --> 0:59:45.400 to Washington, I got great mates in the White House 0:59:45.440 --> 0:59:48.080 and outside the White House. And you know, I still 0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:50.959 have conversations with people where I go. I can't believe 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:51.720 I'm listening to this. 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:54.320 And do you see the current ambassador? Do you have 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:55.040 much to do with Kemi? 0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:56.840 I do? I do? I do I do? And you 0:59:56.840 --> 1:00:02.680 know Kevin of course I was on Sutrise with him 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:06.320 for ten years, right Morning TV, and we're union, yeah, 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:10.040 and I love taking the mickey out of. 1:00:09.960 --> 1:00:12.200 It, but do to pologics drop away then when he 1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:13.840 takes over the ambassadorship and you sort of. 1:00:14.560 --> 1:00:17.800 It's Team Australia, always know, no matter what, no matter what. 1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:22.280 Kim Beasley was great to me, all of us, you know, 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:27.280 Chipping after Arthur was after me. Everyone. Arthur's great and no, 1:00:27.600 --> 1:00:31.160 it's Australia first, always and as it should be right. 1:00:31.200 --> 1:00:36.200 And so I, you know, kept telling major Republicans and 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:40.040 Trump people that Kevin's a good man and he's doing 1:00:40.040 --> 1:00:42.200 the right thing by Australia and he's got Australian support 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:43.600 and that's what you do. 1:00:43.680 --> 1:00:45.760 But hasn't helped by what he said in the past. 1:00:45.800 --> 1:00:48.840 But no, and you know, but Trump's got a long 1:00:48.880 --> 1:00:52.720 list before he gets to Kevin r But I'll tell 1:00:52.720 --> 1:00:58.080 you a funny story. He's like, you know, I, for 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.240 my sins did Q and A. You know, just before 1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:05.080 he was announced and Stan Grant asked me, he said, 1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:09.000 you know who should be the ambassador replace artist? I said, oh, 1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:10.720 I don't want to get into it. And he said, 1:01:10.760 --> 1:01:12.920 come on, you know and I said, well, maybe Julia 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.600 Gillard or something. He says, what about Kevin Rudd? And 1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:20.160 I said, well, I thought we liked the Americans. Kevin 1:01:20.320 --> 1:01:25.720 was verb Oh God. So I'm sitting at the couch 1:01:25.760 --> 1:01:31.439 and hi, joke Kevin, I'm coming over. He comes over 1:01:31.480 --> 1:01:34.360 and second bottle of wide started. He said, why do 1:01:34.400 --> 1:01:36.920 you hate me? I said, no, no hate you. He said, 1:01:36.960 --> 1:01:39.680 why did you say that? You know, like I said, mate, 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:41.320 you're going to have a sense of humor after all 1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:43.440 these years, let's have a sense of humor here, Like 1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:48.320 I've had another bottle. So, you know, he and he's 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:51.080 doing a great job. He really is. He's you know, 1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:54.560 it adds enormous gravitas to have a form prime minister 1:01:54.800 --> 1:01:57.640 as ambassador. As I say, he finally got the promotion, 1:01:58.640 --> 1:02:01.520 and then and then the thing is, you know, he 1:02:01.640 --> 1:02:04.560 has worked really hard at it, and I've defended him 1:02:04.600 --> 1:02:07.520 publicly and that's awkward for some of my team back 1:02:07.520 --> 1:02:11.240 in Australia in politics, but it's the right thing to do. 1:02:11.400 --> 1:02:13.640 He is, he's been doing a good job. 1:02:14.000 --> 1:02:16.520 Well made, You're doing a great job. You did, You're 1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:18.480 you're one. I've always been a fan of Joe Hockey, 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:20.720 as you know, but you've done a great job for us, 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:24.520 both in politics in Australia but also representing in America 1:02:24.600 --> 1:02:27.120 and what you're doing with your business these days. I'm 1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:29.400 hearing all the stories, and I hear lots of people 1:02:29.480 --> 1:02:31.600 talk to me, lots of people tell me about what 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:34.560 Bondo Partners are doing outside of you know, outside of 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:36.840 our usual group of friends. I hear your name raised 1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:39.080 a lot to make Congratulations and well done and things. 1:02:39.080 --> 1:02:40.560 I'll tell you a leaf out of your if I 1:02:40.600 --> 1:02:43.560 would be one tenth of successful. Mate is Mark Burris. 1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:44.680 I'll tell you what I'll be happy. 1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:47.160 I tell you where you are successful. You're still married 1:02:47.160 --> 1:02:49.560 and you've got a lovely family mate. You're a hundred 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:51.520 times more successful. Might well? 1:02:51.640 --> 1:02:53.400 I love to me quite the same, Yea, they do. 1:02:55.000 --> 1:02:55.920 Thank you so much,