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Speaker 1: Hi'm i Boris, and this is straight talk.

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Speaker 2: Everyone that's going to vote for Harris is going to

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Speaker 2: tell you, I reckon. Five out of one hundred that

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Speaker 2: are voting for Trump won't tell you. And that's been

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Speaker 2: believing in the past.

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Speaker 1: Jail Hockeyrus made here, going, what do you think is

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Speaker 1: in that effective? Trump wins?

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Speaker 2: The amount of announcements he's made, if he were deliver

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Speaker 2: them on tax cuts, tariffs and everything else would be diabolical.

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Speaker 1: What about if she wins that?

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Speaker 2: Because she's talking about price controls and everyone's going, how's

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Speaker 2: that going to work? Harris has not defined herself, so

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Speaker 2: she still remains a big policy mystery.

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Speaker 1: And if I was asking now, Joe, what do you

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Speaker 1: think will happen in the election next year? A straining Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's obviously going to be close. Firstly, and do you

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Speaker 1: see their current ambassador? Do you have much to do

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Speaker 1: with kem I do?

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Speaker 2: I do? I do? And you know Kevin.

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Speaker 1: Joel Hockeyrus made here going, Okay, I've.

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Speaker 2: Been a long time, have known each other long time.

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Speaker 1: And actually I remember I was onlything about today. I

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Speaker 1: remember meeting you, like when Michael y Abbsley was raising

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Speaker 1: money for the Liberal Party. Yeah, that made me two

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Speaker 1: thousand nineties.

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Speaker 2: Early nineties totally.

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Speaker 1: And Wabsley got me in a restaurant with a bow

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Speaker 1: because it was a friend of mine the time, I'd

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a long time and we'd agreed to put

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Speaker 1: some moderate amount of money into your campaign, which is

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Speaker 1: not much those days if it was a lot, but

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Speaker 1: for it lost me at the time. But well, you

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Speaker 1: can make up for it now, I know I can.

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Speaker 1: Just to embarrass you, like because because I really need

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Speaker 1: to do this to you, because Kerry would never forgive

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Speaker 1: me Kerry Pack if I don't tell the audience about

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Speaker 1: this story. And I'm the only part I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk about. The rest. I'm just gonna ask a questions.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask and it's going to all be about you.

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Speaker 1: But this story is all about you. Just to give

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Speaker 1: the audience a taste of the bloke they're sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of me. Now, this is what I call a

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Speaker 1: proper treasurer. That's my view, right, And you know he's

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Speaker 1: a businessman today. He's a former Ambassador of the United

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Speaker 1: States of America for Australia in the United States America

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Speaker 1: for Australia and the former Treasurer. But I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go right back to two thousand and I think it

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Speaker 1: was two maybe two thousand and two. I had was

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Speaker 1: a business partnership packer and it was the beginning. It

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Speaker 1: was February two thousand and two, I think interest rates.

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Speaker 1: Interest rates hadn't come off for a long time, and

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Speaker 1: you were the Minister for Finance and Petercase was a

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Speaker 1: Treasurer at the time, so you're much younger Blake, much

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Speaker 1: young Blake. So I get a phone call. The first

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Speaker 1: Reserve Bank meeting was about happened on the Tuesday February,

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Speaker 1: first Tuesday of February, and everyone knew they're going to

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Speaker 1: drop interest rates, and they did dropped inns rates. So

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Speaker 1: I had a phone call from Minister Joe Hockey and

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Speaker 1: he says to me, hey, mate, He said, treasure wants

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Speaker 1: to know because in those days, the Treasurer and the

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Speaker 1: Promise used to talk in Parliament all the time about

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Speaker 1: the competition against the banks. And I was around, Asie

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Speaker 1: was around, but Ozzie had been around for a bit

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Speaker 1: longer than me, so he had a bigger profile. But

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Speaker 1: Minister Hockey says to me on the telephone mark. We

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Speaker 1: notice you're dropping in interest rates and I said, yes,

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Speaker 1: we drop. We announced we're going to drop our instrates.

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Speaker 1: And he said how much by and I said twenty

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Speaker 1: five base points, which was just ahead of the Roserve Bank.

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Speaker 1: And Minister Hockey said, and when we be passing that

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Speaker 1: just rate reduction on? I said, well, funny should say that,

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Speaker 1: I said, because we're thinking about passing it on much

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Speaker 1: more quickly because in those days you passed an interest

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Speaker 1: rate increase on straight away and this rate reduction six

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Speaker 1: weeks later. Correct, So we hold the money for a bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, we also make money. And he said when

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Speaker 1: you think you're going to do that, because it was

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Speaker 1: a big bonu contention with consumers that this rought was happening.

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't know. We're thinking thirteen, twelve, thirty

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Speaker 1: days that that's very interesting. I'll tell the treasure right,

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Speaker 1: But I said, I got to check. So I've got

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Speaker 1: to go check to Kerry Pack. I go to say Erry,

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Speaker 1: like mister Hoggie's on the phone. He the threasur was

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Speaker 1: going to talk about this in parliament. I said, I said,

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Speaker 1: I will pass the rate reduction on twelve days and

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Speaker 1: carry nearly had apoplexy, like he said, what are you

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Speaker 1: doing that for? That's when we make our money and

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Speaker 1: during the periods of change. I say, yeah, but you

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Speaker 1: know the ministers is thinking it would be good for Australians.

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Speaker 1: We need to change the landscape. It's unfair that we

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Speaker 1: put it up straight away and put it down and said,

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Speaker 1: I think we should do it. He said, okay, Sony said,

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Speaker 1: I trust you, you do it. So I thought, good, So

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Speaker 1: I ring mister hockey back. I'm gonna say, Joe twelve days.

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Speaker 1: He said. It's interesting, Marke he said. He said, I

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Speaker 1: was talking to west Pac and west Pack are thinking

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Speaker 1: and doing it, doing it in nine days, and I went,

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Speaker 1: oh fuck. He said, would you go eight? And I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. And I thought, I can't ring carry up.

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Speaker 1: I cannot ring carry. If I ring carry, he'll kill me.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, west Pac nine, can we go eight?

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Speaker 1: Because I can't let Westpac own this now. Now I've

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Speaker 1: always started, I've got to own it. I went eight

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Speaker 1: days and I I've never known to this very day

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Speaker 1: whether or not you were telling me the truth or not,

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Speaker 1: because I have this. I had this straight after this

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Speaker 1: sneaking suspicion that I'd just been jammed and set up

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Speaker 1: so bad.

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Speaker 2: But it did fantastic to be jammed between Kerry Packer

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Speaker 2: and Johannah.

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Speaker 1: Pretty hard, and I thought. But the good thing about

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Speaker 1: it was, and we don't see this in politics today,

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Speaker 1: the good thing about it is that treasurers and then

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Speaker 1: you later became the treasure later on, but treasurers and

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Speaker 1: ministers for finances, you were financial services I think it

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Speaker 1: was called at the time, and this it was two

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Speaker 1: thousand and one, actually not two thousand and two, took

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Speaker 1: risks and were active in the marketplace like our marketplace,

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Speaker 1: and put pressure on people. I've never heard a word

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Speaker 1: from I did hear from Scott at one stage in Josh,

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Speaker 1: but I've never heard a word from Jim. And you know,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about this as a representative a

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Speaker 1: big part of the marketplace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, the environment changes. But I you know,

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a small business family and you

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Speaker 2: know it was just what it was bred into me, and.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, prom puting pressure on me it all zero.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I remember ringing Roger Corbett when he was

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Speaker 2: putting up prices with the GST and and he was

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Speaker 2: putting it up ahead of the introduction's GST and I

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Speaker 2: said to him, I said, mister Corbett, if we need

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Speaker 2: to have a body swing from a light pole in

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Speaker 2: Martin Place and it's yours, then so be it. But

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Speaker 2: you're not putting up prices until we get rid of

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Speaker 2: all the other taxes.

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Speaker 1: As you know, he was bullies, that's right, and he had.

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Speaker 2: To get people into all the Woolies overnight change thirteen

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Speaker 2: million tags. Had to remove it in a million price tags.

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Speaker 2: Colonel Yeah, cost unfortunate, but you know that's the way

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Speaker 2: it should be. It's it's not intimidation of it's about

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Speaker 2: what's best with the Australian.

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Speaker 1: So where has that changed, Joe. It's different today and

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Speaker 1: there might be a whole lot good reasons for it,

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Speaker 1: But where is that change in Australia. Why is it changed?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I've always been that sort

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Speaker 2: of person. It's just, you know, maybe because I'm more

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Speaker 2: familiar with business. I grew up engaging with business at

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Speaker 2: a very young age. I was never really intimidated by business.

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Speaker 2: I remember meetings with Kerry Packer when he wanted to

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Speaker 2: buy the Sydney Morning Hero remember, oh my god. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I was sharing that some of the stories.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't hold back.

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Speaker 2: No, well, it's funny, you know, I had caught up

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Speaker 2: with Kerry Stokes and we're reflecting on all those days

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Speaker 2: when all that media ownership law was changing, how the

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Speaker 2: Carrs went to war with each other, and it was

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Speaker 2: you know, it was a different environment. And see, I

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Speaker 2: think now business is more removed from politics, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's right.

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Speaker 2: And part of it is shareholders say, you know, don't

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Speaker 2: engage with politicians, don't donate to politicians. So the danger

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Speaker 2: is you become removed from the people that are generating

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Speaker 2: the economy. And so I think bigger business is friendless,

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Speaker 2: and partly it's the fault. Overwhelmingly it's a fall of

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Speaker 2: big business because they stopped donating to the parties and therefore,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're being called out for behavior and they've

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Speaker 2: got no friends. They saw that with the banking reforms

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Speaker 2: under Malcolm Turnbull. We see the way the mining companies

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Speaker 2: are treated today, you know. And it's very hard in

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Speaker 2: politics to go into bat for business if it's not

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Speaker 2: in the best interests of small business and consumers.

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Speaker 1: You were you I'm not sure, but did you have

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Speaker 1: a small business under your portfolio?

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Speaker 2: I had, I had small business, not on that one.

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Speaker 2: I was small business and tourism after that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I do remember having small business under your point.

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Speaker 2: I loved it. I mean, in fact, I've started a

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Speaker 2: small business now and.

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Speaker 1: It was actually not so small. But yes, yeah, but I.

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Speaker 2: Mean I started, you know, filling out a bank application

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Speaker 2: form in.

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Speaker 1: The US, having up a bank well, and it's called

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Speaker 1: Bondo partners it is, and you're you're effectively putting parties

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Speaker 1: to parties, so you're.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the interaction between politics and business. And we've

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Speaker 2: got a consultancy arm, we've got a capital arm, we've

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Speaker 2: got an investment fund investing in companies in national security

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Speaker 2: in Australia, in the US and UK with and we've

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Speaker 2: we've got m and a advisory arm. We've got an

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Speaker 2: advocacy arm, and we're in Australia, the US, UK and Japan.

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Speaker 1: We're just to say it looks very much in some respects,

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Speaker 1: it looks very much like a very early stage mccuari

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Speaker 1: bank without being a bank in that McCrory group, I mean,

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Speaker 1: not the bank part of the McCrory group part of it.

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Speaker 1: You've got funds, you've got investments, you've got advisor, a

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Speaker 1: lot of advisory stuff. But you're sort of making markets

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Speaker 1: between people and regions.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's hard going to another country and it's really expensive,

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Speaker 2: particularly for SMS going to the United States. I mean

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Speaker 2: people think, for example, going to the United States is

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Speaker 2: just like going to Queensland. Well it's not. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it's very different. And so same with the UK.

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Speaker 2: They don't really understand. UK has always looked at the

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Speaker 2: EU rather than at the US, and and Americans coming

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Speaker 2: here have a little bit of a tinge of arrogance.

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Speaker 2: They know how to deal with it, just like going

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Speaker 2: to California. I mean, as I say to Americans, I say,

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Speaker 2: what are Australians like, I say, well, we're just like Californians,

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Speaker 2: except we like America. That's difference. Oh yeah, okay, we

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Speaker 2: get it now.

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Speaker 1: And how much of that? How much of that, Joe,

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Speaker 1: do you get a leg up from being the ambassador

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Speaker 1: because ambassadorship which you took on fifteen sixteen seventy Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how much how much do you get out of that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? For sure. But I mean it's look if I

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Speaker 2: was still a lawyer as I was way back, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe i'd be.

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Speaker 1: A partner at course, and yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you know it would have been accounting for every

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Speaker 2: six minutes of my life.

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Speaker 1: And you'd be charging me. Well, actually, I used Mallicon's

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Speaker 1: recently and they charged me fifteen hundred bucks an hour.

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Speaker 2: Well that's okay, that's good for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, he's actually quite inexpensive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, certainly not that, but it's you know, I

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Speaker 2: just always felt the need to try and do something better.

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Speaker 2: I felt the need to give and look, I just

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Speaker 2: enjoyed the US and after I finished his ambassador, I'm going, well,

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Speaker 2: what do I do now? You know, I've had twenty

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Speaker 2: four years of public life. I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: a lobbyist or anything like that. I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: something more substantive, and we ended up doing you know,

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Speaker 2: fantastic transactions in Australia's interests. Like you know, the biggest

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Speaker 2: telco in the Pacific was thinking of being selling itself

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Speaker 2: to the Chinese, and you know, I stepped in and

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Speaker 2: worked with the Australian government and the American government and

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Speaker 2: made sure or Telstra now owns it right, So things

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Speaker 2: like that were then in national security, we're investing in

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Speaker 2: the sort of companies that are going to keep our

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Speaker 2: kids safe. So that's that's my you know, there's got

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Speaker 2: to be that element to it to get me really

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Speaker 2: fired up. And yes, of course, all the knowledge I've

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Speaker 2: gained as ambassador or as treasurer or or any of them,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to deny that. That'd be ridiculous and

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Speaker 2: what I am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's no point in not leveraging what you've done.

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Speaker 2: What I see God, I mean, it's you know, if

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Speaker 2: you've been the world's best plumber, you're going to leverage that.

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Speaker 2: And this is you know, people often say to me,

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Speaker 2: what's so and so like, Well Trump, what's Trump like? Well?

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Speaker 2: Trump is taking his experience as a New York property

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Speaker 2: developer and he's taking it to the White House. He's transactional,

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Speaker 2: he does deals. You know, he's polite to people, even

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Speaker 2: the people that he competes against. But you know, he's

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Speaker 2: a hard, transactional person. And it's no different with Harris,

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Speaker 2: who's a prosecutor, and Kamala Harris has been a prosecutor

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Speaker 2: and a lawyer, and we all have you know, Barack

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Speaker 2: Obama comes across as a university lecturer, and that's what

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Speaker 2: he was. You know, he's a very good university.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about Trump? I'm sure you're sick of it,

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Speaker 1: but like you're here, so I got Orden wants to

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Speaker 1: talk about Trump. They want to hear about someone who

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Speaker 1: knows the guy for a start, and any of your

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Speaker 1: abassador role, you get to meet Trump because he was

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Speaker 1: a president during that period.

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Speaker 2: We no, most ambassadors wouldn't have many. I mean you

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Speaker 2: meet the president when you become ambassador, you go and

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Speaker 2: present your credential, so you have a five minute meeting

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Speaker 2: with a president that time was Barack Obama. I met

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Speaker 2: Trump because he was running for office and my view

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Speaker 2: was he could win, and no one else had that view,

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Speaker 2: and so I was lonely out there saying I want

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Speaker 2: to engage with the Trump campaign when no one else

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Speaker 2: would and he was considered, you know, an idiot, and

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Speaker 2: everyone said Clinton's going to win. And that's when the relationships.

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Speaker 1: What do you think he was going to win? What

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Speaker 1: was it you saw in him?

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Speaker 2: Ah? You know, Mark, I like in our politics here

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Speaker 2: we talk about Betty Bankstown and we try and identify

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Speaker 2: the swing voter, the margall see voter, and who really mattered,

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Speaker 2: how we going to win her over? And I took

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Speaker 2: that political experience in Australia and campaigns and said, what

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Speaker 2: who's the swing voter in America? And we came up

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Speaker 2: with Mary Milwaukee, Wisconsin, right. And I just when I

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Speaker 2: started to define in my own head and to the

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Speaker 2: embassy Mary Milwaukee, they started to understand that there was

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Speaker 2: something more than Clinton, something more than what was being offered.

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Speaker 2: It was much more complicated. So Mary Milwaukee, and you know,

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Speaker 2: this is sort of typical in one says forty five

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Speaker 2: years of age, earning fifteen dollars an hour for the

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Speaker 2: last ten years will mart In the checkout. You know,

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Speaker 2: she has two kids, a boy that's probably done one

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Speaker 2: or two two is the duty of Afghanistan, probably has PTSD.

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Speaker 2: She has a young daughter. She hopes one day we'ld

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Speaker 2: go to college, but she can't afford it. Her husband

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Speaker 2: is one of one and a half million truck drivers

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Speaker 2: in America that hasn't got a college degree. And she

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Speaker 2: goes to church Wednesdays and Sundays, which is typical in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest. You know, she pays the bills, She holds

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Speaker 2: the family together. She worries about security, the threat of

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Speaker 2: Fender all and every night on TV, the Colberts and

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Speaker 2: the Jimmy Kimmel's another laugh at her for going to church,

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Speaker 2: for having traditional values, believing the marriage is between a

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Speaker 2: man and a woman. But you know, and they laugh

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Speaker 2: at her because she's yesterday, because they see her as yesterday,

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Speaker 2: and they're really about, you know, more a different type

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Speaker 2: of Miera. And you know, Mary's there and she's going

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Speaker 2: hang on. Along comes Donald Trump and he's a very

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Speaker 2: successful person. But he's rude. I don't like that rudeness.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, he not only listens to me,

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Speaker 2: he's fighting for me. He says, you know, Mary, you

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Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with going to church, or there's nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong with, you know, having a history of guns hand

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Speaker 2: through the generation. There's nothing wrong with, you know, having

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Speaker 2: an F one fifty pickup truck. There's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: not going to university. What's wrong with that? In fact,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to fight for you, Mary. And she said,

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Speaker 2: for the first time someone's come along and fall for me.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, Mary, More white women voted for

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen, and more

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Speaker 2: white women voted for Donald Trump than Joe Biden in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty because he's suddenly saying I hear you and

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Speaker 2: I'm fighting for you.

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Speaker 1: Was that just a clever strategy from his point of view?

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Speaker 1: Is it for real? Like, is he actually want to

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Speaker 1: fy for those people? Did he see them as someone's

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Speaker 1: going to give them back?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I think he's authentic. And you know, authenticity

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Speaker 2: is the most valuable commodity in the twenty first century,

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Speaker 2: whether it be in business or in politics or anything else.

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Speaker 2: If you're authentic, you can't be fake, you can't lie.

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Speaker 2: People see right through you. And so you know Trump,

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Speaker 2: of course he lies about facts and figures and sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff. But when he says, you know, I want

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Speaker 2: to get out of the war in Afghanistan, you know

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Speaker 2: he really wanted to get out of the war. When

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Speaker 2: he said I wanted to build the wall, he really

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Speaker 2: wanted to build the wall. And you know, whether you

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Speaker 2: agree with him or not, he actually delivered on his authenticity.

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Speaker 2: You know, when he's not author I mean when he

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Speaker 2: gets up a rallies and says, look, my people say,

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Speaker 2: I've got to try and win back the female voters.

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Speaker 2: He's right, it's so transparent. He's got the speaking points,

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Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, here are the speaking points by

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Speaker 2: people give him. What do you think of that? That's

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Speaker 2: why ten, fifteen, twenty thirty thousand people bowl up to

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Speaker 2: his rallies all over America and one day he could

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Speaker 2: speak to eighty ninety thousand people, you know, just by

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Speaker 2: going rally to rally, and they keep coming out and

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Speaker 2: they keep hearing the same speech. Amazing.

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Speaker 1: I once heard someone say that I think it was

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Speaker 1: I think it was Franklin. They said, might have been

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Speaker 1: I might know Roosevelt. I'm sure so Franklin did rese

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Speaker 1: it was the first president that got there through radio.

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Speaker 1: JFK was the first president. Was the TV president because

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Speaker 1: he looked a certain way and acted a certain way.

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Speaker 1: And Trump was the first social media president because you know,

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Speaker 1: he's good at working social media. And I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: the time it would have been Twitter and those other things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sure she was working with And I was thinking to myself,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris right now seems to be the best to

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Speaker 1: TikTok like as a new version of social media, like

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Speaker 1: Trump doesn't sort of resonate with that audience. She seems

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Speaker 1: to be really good at that and everywhere I see

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Speaker 1: and I don't even know what she stands for. I

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Speaker 1: actually can't pinpoint of policy this stage. I haven't actually

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Speaker 1: heard to talk about it much policy, but she's bloody

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Speaker 1: good in front of the audience. In relation to that

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Speaker 1: particular form of social media, which everybody under thirty looks at.

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Speaker 2: Well, she has successfully married an issue that's emotional and

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Speaker 2: important like abortion and the demographic that she really needs

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Speaker 2: to get out to vote, being women under the age

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Speaker 2: of forty, right, And she's used TikTok and Instagram and

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Speaker 2: everything else to get to basically prepare that demographic for

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Speaker 2: the battle of the election and to come out and

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Speaker 2: vote for her and volunteer for her, and then the

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Speaker 2: endorsement of Taylor Swift and others coming behind it.

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Speaker 1: So do you think she's had to pick a fo

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Speaker 1: or pick an issue, because I've been hearing people say

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Speaker 1: it's about Albanezi lately. You've got to pick a five, You.

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Speaker 2: Got to define yourself. The thing is Harris has not

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Speaker 2: defined herself. So you know, bear this in mind. The

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Speaker 2: last election that we didn't have a Biden, a Bush

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Speaker 2: or a. Clinton was nineteen seventy six, nearly fifty years ago,

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Speaker 2: and there's been one of those three names in every

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Speaker 2: presidential ballot since that time. So name recognition and that

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Speaker 2: doesn't even include Obama. So name recognition is hugely important,

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Speaker 2: especially when you have voluntary voting. So along comes Harris

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Speaker 2: Walls and it's really I'm gone a few weeks to

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Speaker 2: define itself. She's the first candidate since I think nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty eight or something who hasn't gone through a primary.

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Speaker 2: So the American primary system basically introduces them to the

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Speaker 2: American people, and particularly the Democrats or the Republicans, and

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Speaker 2: millions of people go out and they spend multi millions,

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Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of dollars on their campaigns. Harris hasn't

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Speaker 2: gone through that for this election.

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Speaker 1: She went through it.

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Speaker 2: Biden went through it, that's right, and Harris hasn't. So

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Speaker 2: she's an unknown to more people than you think. Now,

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Speaker 2: the question in my mind is is she going how

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Speaker 2: does she differentiate herself from Biden? We know how she

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Speaker 2: differentiates herself from Trump. I mean, she's obviously looking different

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Speaker 2: than Trump, but how does she differentiate herself from Biden?

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Speaker 2: And that's a very tricky issue. So she's not she's

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Speaker 2: not making major policy announcements. She's done fewer press conferences

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Speaker 2: than any other candidate ever for president of the United

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Speaker 2: States since you had your media, and you know, everyone

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Speaker 2: else has defined her, defined her as the candidate she's done.

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Speaker 2: Rather than Kamala Harris defining herself. Everyone else has defined her.

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Speaker 2: Clinton's defined her. You know, Biden's to find Obamas to

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Speaker 2: find her. That's massive fire power. Oprah's to find her,

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swifts to find her, everyone else has to find her.

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Speaker 2: Whereas you know, really she still remains a bit of

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Speaker 2: a big policy mystery.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's part Do you think that's the

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Speaker 1: thought out strategy?

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Speaker 2: Oh totally yeah, yeah. And you know, so they basically

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Speaker 2: bunkered down Biden in the twenty twenty election because of

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Speaker 2: COVID and that sort of worked and minimum press conferences,

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Speaker 2: whereas Trump is all out there, you know, everywhere, spews

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Speaker 2: it out like he's accessible, you know, even seeing their

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Speaker 2: journalists tell me that, you know, he'll ring them at

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Speaker 2: odd hours and CNN is like the mortal enemy h Trump,

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Speaker 2: but he still rings those journals at odd hours to

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Speaker 2: say you ought to know this or you ought to

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Speaker 2: know that are well done. And he's very very open

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Speaker 2: and engaged. It's kind of interesting. He's privately he is

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Speaker 2: a curious mind.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious or curious himself.

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00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: No, curious. He asks a lot of questions, right, he says,

431
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: you know, and they could be Oh gosh, the conversations

432
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: I've had, they've drifted from the Koala is going to

433
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: survive the bushfires through to you know, you know, is

434
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 2: Malcolm Turnbull really that rich? I mean yeah, like it's

435
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: really it's bizarre, so random, it's random, and they'll come out,

436
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: you jump from topic to topic and then he'll get

437
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: onto golf and you know or something like that. It's like, really,

438
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: he's got a very curious mind, and he listens carefully

439
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: and if he finds a bit of information, he likes

440
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: to grab onto it.

441
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 1: What's a take to be a US president? Do you think?

442
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean? Looking as an observer, I mean, because I'll

443
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: be honest, it doesn't seem like either one of them

444
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: are great candidates to me? Like sure, Like do I

445
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: would I if I was America, would I want either

446
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: one of them running my country? I'm not sure sure?

447
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: But what do you think it takes to be a

448
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: great president of the United States, And Mike could say

449
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: what I think, it takes me a great promister as

450
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: straight from what I've observed, but I don't know about

451
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: the United States. Look, it's the same thing. It's conviction, conviction, conviction.

452
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: You have to believe that you know you call it

453
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: and you call it right, and there'll be times when

454
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: you don't. And the hard part is knowing when you've

455
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 2: made a wrong call and you've got to change direction.

456
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: But a lot of the calls these days are critical calls. Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Gaza.

457
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they're a bit China.

458
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the hardest job in the world president of

459
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: the United States. You know. One of the things that

460
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: struck me Mark when I was ambassador was how the

461
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 2: whole world expects America to fix their problems. Yeah, deep

462
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: dark Africa, someone's got a problem South America. There's a

463
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: battle between Brazil and Columbia, or Brazil and Peru, or

464
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Chile or whatever. The US has got to fix it.

465
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: In the Caribbean, in Canada up in the northern border,

466
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: or in Europe, you know, two countries a fight, or

467
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: in the Pacific, you know, everyone expects America to solve

468
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: their problems. And by the way, the US president has

469
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: to be a president for the United States as well,

470
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 2: has to worry about healthcare, education, domestic violence, you know,

471
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. Immigration. I think it's just an

472
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: impossible job. I think it's an impossible job. And what

473
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: you have to do is set a tone and then

474
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: have conviction behind it. So the great conviction presidents like

475
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 2: Teddy Roosevelt or Franklin Delano Roosevelt or you know, I'd

476
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: put in there, you know LBJ, you know conviction, Yeah,

477
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: I'd put him in there. I think he's one of

478
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: the great US presidents, you know, for what his conviction

479
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: on breaking down the racial barriers in the US was phenomenal,

480
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 2: really was phenomenal. And then Ronald Reagan, of course, you know,

481
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: he's conviction, sense of purpose. He's you've got to clearly

482
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 2: know what's right and wrong, and he did that with

483
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union when it was pretty tense. And so

484
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: conviction politicians are the people I most admire and I

485
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: find other best to work. John Howard was a conviction totally,

486
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: and Bob Hawk was a conviction. He knew where he

487
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: wanted to go. I think the Australia has been best

488
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: served by conviction leaders.

489
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: I was only saying the other day. Irrespective Hawk or Howard's,

490
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: they're different in politics in terms of which one's blue

491
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: ones red. But they were two of our best.

492
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, I was privileged

493
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: to be in John Howard's cabinet. He promoted me very early,

494
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: at a very young age. And you know, I wasn't

495
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: of the more conservative persuasion of the Live Party, so

496
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: he saw me a little like a black sheep, I think,

497
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: but he was. He was magnanimous and he always listened.

498
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: He was very good in listening to the Australia, as

499
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: was Hawky. Hawky was made of mine, a golf buddy,

500
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: and I'm not convinced, but I'm close to being convinced.

501
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: He actually might have voted for me on one or

502
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: two occasions.

503
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: Really well, there.

504
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: Were some labor leaders he really didn't like, but I

505
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: don't know, but he he you know, they're just really wise.

506
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: They're good listeners. I find the best leaders in business

507
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: or in politics, any discipline are good listeners.

508
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting, you should say, because I was

509
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: only talking I was only sort of complaining or moaning,

510
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: whatever the world is the lack of policy of our

511
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: current government. And I think it's I'm not having a

512
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: crack at them here. I think it's because of the

513
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: way politics, boys, Stone, who who is voting for you?

514
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: Who you are representing? And they represent The Labor Party

515
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: today in federal politics represents such a broad array of

516
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: different people that's so broad it's a massive church for them,

517
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: whereas the Liberals more just conservatives, a little bit broad

518
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: than they were in the past, but no anear like labor.

519
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: And it must be virtually impossible for the Labor to

520
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: be able to say this for everybody. Therefore, don't make

521
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: it any well.

522
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: And that's why the primary voter is thirty one percent.

523
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: I mean Labor. You know, mate, I'm going to tell

524
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 2: you when we're in politics. When I was in politics

525
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: not that long ago, we formed the view that we

526
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: had to have a primary voter forty four to win government.

527
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: Labor needed a primary voter forty one forty two. Labor's

528
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: currently polling thirty one. Yeah, now you know you're having

529
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: your meal eaten away by all these the Greens, the Teals,

530
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: where the Liberal Party had it with the Teals. But

531
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: still we're getting close to forty Still got a way

532
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: to go to get up to forty four. But you see,

533
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: it's just you know, social media has changed it. You

534
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: know what social media has done is it's made the

535
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: voice of the critic much louder than the voice of

536
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: the advocate. Yeah, and you know I sort of thump

537
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: the table when I read in a paper or something

538
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: or online someone say, oh, well, we need the government

539
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: to lay down this reform. Actually, you know, if you

540
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: come out and you have the biggest tax policy change,

541
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: you can say today, it'll be yesterday's news. By tomorrow,

542
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: everyone overnight would be smashing it on social media and

543
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: you just go, okay. So my view today is the

544
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: best government is the one that interferes the least in

545
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: your life.

546
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: May a regulatory center.

547
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: Your regulatory sense and taxation sense on. You know that, Like,

548
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: don't get the government to solve your problem, you get

549
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 2: the opportunity to solve your problem and get the government

550
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: out of the way. I mean, you know, look, we're

551
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: talking about housing this.

552
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: I was going to say housing.

553
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: Housing is a great example. Mate. I don't know if

554
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: you've done a renovation.

555
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: Lately I've done I did when I a budget both

556
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: four times.

557
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: Mate, I'm railing gainst this. I want to put up

558
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: a car port, single car port in my backyard. It

559
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: costs four thousand dollars and I've been told I have

560
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: to go to council. It's going to cost me seven

561
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to go to council just.

562
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: For the council.

563
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: For the council, I have to put in a DA

564
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: for it, right because it's a heritage Erry, I'm going,

565
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm just putting up a temporary car pot And you're going,

566
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: why do I bother? Right? Like, so you're not going

567
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 2: to get more construction of housing if you're spending a

568
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: vast amount of money on red tape and green tape.

569
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: And I know where this comes from. Everyone's trying to

570
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: mitigate risk. Well, we've got to be prepared to take risk.

571
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: We're the consumer.

572
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: You have to have some risk.

573
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but how can we say to the government department

574
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: you don't need to take the risk, will take it?

575
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well that's the point. It comes back to personal

576
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: responsibility and the fact that you do take a risk.

577
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you don't have das of course, you do,

578
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: and you've got to have communities and so on. But

579
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: there's just it's just ridiculous the amount of paperwork, and

580
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: then you know it adds to the cost of everything.

581
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: And plumbers and electricians we haven't got enough of them.

582
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: They're getting tired. They're fantastic the trade is, you know,

583
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: and the quality of the work they do is often

584
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: very good in Australia, but they're tired. I mean they're

585
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: hitting sixty and you're crawling under a house to do

586
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: the plumbing or the electricals right, and you can't get

587
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: people to do it. So I think that's just, you know,

588
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: somehow we've got to let the market have a solution

589
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: to some of these issues, and you know that means

590
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: freeing up land, having you know, potential for more high

591
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: rise et cetera, et cetera. But you know it's highly contentious.

592
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: You during your treasurer period did have something to say

593
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: about need of gearing. You did have something to say

594
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: about negative gearing during your of course, and I have to,

595
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: and I will be honest, I did do an article

596
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: with the AFI some years before that and I said,

597
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: I actually said negative gearing is actually not good policy.

598
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: But there's not good economic policy. Right, But I said

599
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: to be silly to get rid of it, because it's

600
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: too indentured into our system today.

601
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: So here's a solution, negative gearing, gratuitous advice forty thousand

602
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 2: feet or thirty thousand dollars and washed it right. Negative

603
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: gearing is a tool used to encourage investment in income

604
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: producing assets. Right and treasurers are both persuasions. The liberal

605
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: have skewed the taxation system towards favoring investment in equities

606
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: over investment in real estate. Why because, as an economist

607
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: will tell you, a dollar that goes into an old home,

608
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: right is a dollar that has sort of lost forever

609
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: until you sell the home. Whereas you put a dollar

610
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: into BHP, they'll take that dollar, they'll buy new equipment,

611
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: build a new mine, and they'll give you a return.

612
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: So the question is how do we get real estate

613
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: to become productive? Now? Of course, the productive real estate

614
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: is when you're building new homes that's employing people. That

615
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: money is at work until it's done, and then it's

616
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: not at work. Right. So that's why on real estate

617
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 2: we still have land tax, we still have stamp duty,

618
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: and on shares you've got franking credits, you've got no

619
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: stamp duty, you've got no land tax. So it's the

620
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: taxation system is skewed. Still, negative gearing, the same economic

621
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: tool applied to real estate applied to shares, but the

622
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: shares are far more attractive than the real estate. Right.

623
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: So because real estate, if you take away negative gearing

624
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: on investment, real estate rents are going to go up.

625
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: It's as simple as that, right. And in other countries

626
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: they have rent control, rent subsidies. Well, we can't do that,

627
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous. The market is at play. But if you

628
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: really want to get more housing, double double or perhaps

629
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: increase by fifty percent, the negative gearing entitlement on new

630
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: real estate. So there's an incentive to go and buy

631
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: new real.

632
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: Estate money into the system.

633
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 2: Exactly the jobs going, It gets the housing construction going.

634
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: And plus you know it helps to subsidize the new

635
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: housing for people that really need it.

636
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: And what about the couple of gains tax on the

637
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: other end, because.

638
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 2: I wouldn't change the capital gain tax range.

639
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: The discount as it is.

640
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's not even a discount. I mean, it's

641
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: competitive with other countries. And you know, in the United States,

642
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: for example, they have increased tax so high that everyone

643
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 2: keeps rolling their money intill the capital gains tax opportunity arrives.

644
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 2: It's a bit the same in your own business in Australia,

645
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: you'll keep rolling the money in because if you take

646
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: it as as income you pay fifty percent. If you

647
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: sell your business, you only paid twenty five percent of them.

648
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: Which is true, but that way so so do you.

649
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: But do you think that this government? I mean, I've

650
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: noticed that Paul Keating has been getting stuck into his

651
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: own party and Bill Kelty more recently is even way

652
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: he goes, yes, let's do it. But that's unusual for labor.

653
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: It's they're usually pretty staunch like. Keating has had at

654
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: a lot of cracks and a lot of things that

655
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: have been going. I've actually tried to get him on

656
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: the show, but particularly in relation to our relationship with

657
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: China and also in relation to Aucust, he's been quite.

658
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: His old garland that he is wrong.

659
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? And what do you

660
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: think about his commentary?

661
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: Oh look, I think Paul Ketting was a pioneer and

662
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: number of areas, but he's just.

663
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: Dead wrong economically one hundred percent the super supernovation guarantee,

664
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: good thumbs up, you know, the you know, like the deregulation.

665
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: He's just a great flooding.

666
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: All those things. Yeah, is dead wrong, dead wrong and

667
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: the wrong motivations. I mean, China is you know, first

668
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: and foremost about Beijing's We don't share values with China.

669
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got many Chinese friends. I had a

670
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: great relationship with the Chinese government over many years. But

671
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: I understand this. You know, their first priority in China

672
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: is the welfare of the Communist Party. They're not our

673
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: friend when it comes to values. You know, the UK

674
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: and the US are our friend. There are allies. They've

675
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: shared blood for us, We've shared blood for them. That's

676
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: where it goes. And then the only country in the

677
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: world that is successfully marrying capital with innovation on a

678
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: grand scale as a US. So from an economic perspective,

679
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: the US is as much opportunity as China, if not

680
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: more as is you know with the emergency of India

681
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: and all the others. But the BTTOM line is the

682
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: US is our closest friend. Our integration in their security

683
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: system and their integration NOWS means that you know, of

684
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: the last thirteen attempted terrorist tax in Australia, probably eight

685
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: or nine would have been thwarted with the help of

686
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: US intelligence agencies, you know, and may share a lot

687
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: of intelligence. They've got sixteen intelligence agencies, and I would

688
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: say we're embedded in most of them. And then when

689
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: it comes to the military, at various times we've had

690
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: military personnel and up to thirty two US states and

691
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: people don't know about it. And then they're embedded with US.

692
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: And I tell you what, I'd rather have them with

693
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: US than any other country in the world.

694
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: It's funny. I interviewed Trump and when was that. I

695
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: interviewed him in twenty sixteen. He gave me a half

696
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: hour half our interview and he railed against China. And

697
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: I got quite nervous because sixteen was a period when

698
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: you were around and China was our biggest trading partner.

699
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: It was big emerging as the biggest trading part They

700
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: might have just got a head for sure, and I

701
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: was sort of trying to think, well, this is not

702
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: going to let this is not going so good. You look,

703
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm gona get a bit nervous. But he didn't hold back,

704
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: and he said sort of the same type of thing

705
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: as you, not suggesting it the same. But he talked

706
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: about values, the Chinese values relative to our values, relative

707
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: to the American values, and fair.

708
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: Enough, that's what they are. But I mean, if you

709
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 2: look at look, just look at the history, right, and

710
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: it's really important. You know, China, China, Russia, and the

711
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: US all were born out of revolutionary wars. All three

712
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: countries really had big revolutionary wars, and then they followed

713
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: up with big civil wars. And what happens in the

714
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: civil war is no one trusts their neighbor anymore. It's

715
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 2: something you you can go years and years and generations,

716
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, you don't really

717
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 2: trust the person next door or the person on the

718
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: other side of the country. So in China and Russia,

719
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: head office Moscow and Beijing rule with an iron fist.

720
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: That's how they keep control and so on. In the US,

721
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: they fear Washington running with the ruling with an iron fists.

722
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: So that's the constitution. That's why Americans proudly are still

723
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: state based. They rail against Washington. That's why Trump has

724
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: that right, has that capacity. He's railing against Washington. He's

725
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: not of the establishment and Americans feel that sense of comfort.

726
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: Australia is a bit the same. They rail against Canberra.

727
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: We're sort of more agreeable to Canberra, but we're sort

728
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: of railey. We don't want it to use our power

729
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: to camera. And that's why states rights are still very

730
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: powerful here and on. On China, Trump is very consistent.

731
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: He has been very consistent. Of course, he says I'll

732
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: deal with the President and do a deal and a

733
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: great deal. But the bottom line is, you know, they're

734
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: different values and that's.

735
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: Really important, and it's okay to accept that, by the way.

736
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, Yeah, the Chinese to understand that. That's why

737
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: they still buy our iron ore and our coal and

738
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 2: everything else. They and you know, that's why they want

739
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: to They want to get on with this. They're pragmatic.

740
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 2: And by the way, they've got a lot of domestic

741
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: problems in China as well. So I don't think that it's.

742
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: All particularly economically economic.

743
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, when I was Treasurer, you know that

744
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: I had a great relationship with Loji waih, the Finance

745
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: Minister of China, and he rang me out one name

746
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: and said, look, you Joe, I've got to put a

747
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: tariff on your coal and I said, but we're about

748
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: to sign a trade agreement where you abolish the tariffs.

749
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: He said, I've got a few domestic issues. It's only

750
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: going to be for six months. I said, okay, in

751
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: todays what what what? What?

752
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: What do you think?

753
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: Then?

754
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: What's your inside around What does Scott say that really

755
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: got them upset? Because you know, whilst we're talking about

756
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: the values of China and Australia and they accepted, they're

757
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: practically understand it. What was it that really got up?

758
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: It was unquestionably calling for a global inquiry into the

759
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: source of COVID, so blaming and China was very embarrassed

760
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: about COVID, as they should be. I mean, you think

761
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: about it, no event in the history of humanity has

762
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 2: affected every single household on the face of the.

763
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: Earth except COVID, except COVID.

764
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? I mean we've had wars, and we've

765
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: had you know, famines and you know environmental events. But

766
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: the only event that went to every single house, every

767
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: single home, every single on the face of the earth

768
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: was COVID and China was responsible.

769
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: Do you think for sure?

770
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 2: Of course? Yeah, I mean it's absolutely, there's no doubt

771
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 2: about it. But you know, I think Scott Morrison calling

772
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 2: for a confirmation of that yeah, was just you know,

773
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: China is all about face, right, very much about face,

774
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: and that was seen as comfortation. He was right to

775
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: do it. It was the right thing to do, he said.

776
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: I was going to say, do you think that?

777
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Of course, yeah.

778
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: But the punishment did befit the crime though?

779
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: How did they punish it? They didn't buy some wine,

780
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 2: they didn't buy.

781
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: Lobsters sorry, some lobsters.

782
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had cheap loobbies for a long time.

783
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: But because and do you think that Trump then plays

784
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: it right? Then when in terms of how he talks

785
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: about China adding Paris, everything is going to.

786
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: Come to I mean, that's he's playing a race card.

787
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: Is that is that a good Is that a good

788
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: narrative to win an election?

789
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 2: Well? I'd hope not, but you know it is what

790
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: it is something It's long been that sort of.

791
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: What do you think is in that effect of Trump

792
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: wins economically?

793
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: I'm well, his policies, Ah, I don't know if their

794
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: policies or their thoughts, but the amount of announcements he's made,

795
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: if he were deliver them on tax cuts, tariffs and

796
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 2: everything else would be diabolical.

797
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: In what regard economic economically.

798
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 2: I mean, the US is just running a massive deficit.

799
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: It's borrowing from the rest of the world. Congress keeps

800
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: approving these big deficit of budgets to the extent that,

801
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: you know, if the US dollar is not the reserve

802
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: currency of the world, they're screwed. So then there's nothing

803
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: else at the moment. But you know, they're screwed. So

804
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: the US, you know, can't sustain that. Trump's making it worse.

805
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: He said he's he's going to reduce company tax to

806
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 2: fifteen percent. He said, to go even further. He said

807
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: he's going to carry on the tax cuts at sunset

808
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: next year, but he could go further. He has come

809
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: out and said credit card interest rates are too high.

810
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: We're going to cap it at ten percent. Sounds great,

811
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: but how does that work? Right? He's come out and

812
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: he said he won't have a ten percent tariff on China.

813
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: He's going to have a sixty percent tariff on China.

814
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: So that's inflationy oh Man.

815
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 2: Inflation goes through the roof because America has I think

816
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: it's about a five hundred billion dollars trade deficit with China. Well,

817
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: that means they're bringing it in, right, they're not manufacturing.

818
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: And even if in the US they would going to

819
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: manufacture it, they couldn't build that manufacturing overnight. So they're

820
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: going to suddenly have you know, a sixty percent increase

821
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: in the price of five hundred billion dollars worth of

822
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 2: goods flows through the ecomomic.

823
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: High and ends up here too, because we import that inflation.

824
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: Of course we do, we import it, But what do

825
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: mean crash out the US dollar? And you're starting to

826
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: see that, you know, with interest rates coming down the

827
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: US you're saying, you know, it's a great trade at

828
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: the moment, buying the Aussie selling the US, but it'd

829
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: go you know, she had the head towards parody.

830
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: What about if she wins the Well, I.

831
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 2: Mean, I don't know much better because she's talking about

832
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: price controls and even derry. Yeah, she said she's going

833
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: to price control groceries and everyone's going, how is that

834
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: going to work? And that was the last economic policy

835
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: she announced, and it's sort of faded off a bit,

836
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: so no one quite knows what her economic policies are.

837
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: Can I just switch direction? A little bit now and

838
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: just talk about Australia because you know we're unless you're

839
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: coming up, and we've got you know, we've got the RBA.

840
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: We've always got lecture coming up.

841
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: We seen to her. By the way, that seems to

842
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: be a problem to me. You know, they did two reds.

843
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: We do have stability. I mean, I'm really impressed with

844
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: both the Labor Party and the Liberal Party having leadership stability, thank.

845
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: God, talking in terms of Dunton and Albaniz.

846
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: And they're respectful of it.

847
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: Do you do you think ALBANIZI does have stability to

848
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: do you think Jim's sit there? I mean that article

849
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: that that storyline aitive that was written this week that

850
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: Jim sort of love that Treasury paper out on negative

851
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: gearing just when you happened to be going over.

852
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: The Treasure has cop out all the time.

853
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: They well, do you know how it works? So how

854
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: did it work? How does that work? So just would

855
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: if the Treasury, the Department of Treasury is doing some

856
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: research on a topic, would they are they likely to

857
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 1: be doing it on their own or would the Treasure

858
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: have asked them to do it?

859
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's a bit of both.

860
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: It's a gray area. Well, because you're in business today,

861
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: you've got to be careful.

862
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's a gray area. I asked

863
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: Treasury when I was there, I said, do me a

864
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: tax options paper, but let me tell you what I'm

865
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: not going to do one, two, three, four five, And

866
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: they came up with not. I released it and you know,

867
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: nothing was implemented, so you know it varies. Of course,

868
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 2: from a budget perspective, you'll have options. So when it

869
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: comes to spending money, you bring in all your colleagues

870
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: and you have an expenditure Review Committee and the Finance

871
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 2: Minister is cracking the gavel and so on. But when

872
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 2: it comes to revenue racing.

873
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: It's just the treasure.

874
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think that's not about idea money the

875
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: Prime Minister in In fact, when I was writing my

876
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: first budget speech, Tony Abbit said, mate, mate, you're going

877
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 2: to send it to me, I'd like to have some

878
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 2: input into the speech. I said no, really, I said no, no, no.

879
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: I consulted previous treasures and I said no, you don't

880
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 2: chart to the primary it's your speech.

881
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: And what was Abbot like to work with?

882
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: He was great, Yeah, yeah, he's a very very decent guy.

883
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: He's quite intelligent, very smart.

884
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: Very smart, he's sharp, He's a very decent guy. I wish,

885
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: you know, I wish the public had to send the

886
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: Tony Abbot that I know. You know, he comes across

887
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: as a sort of warrior and you know, traditionalists and

888
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. But there's another Tony Abbot

889
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 2: that people don't know, and he is a very selfless person.

890
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: He's a very decent human.

891
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: Man and as far as I'm aware, definitely not a misogynist,

892
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: which is what trying to make out.

893
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: He was in the chamber for that speech, and you know,

894
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: it's been embellished and you know, become sort of an

895
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: iconic for a certain cohort in the community. But he's not.

896
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 2: He's not, I mean, but he suffered the same fate

897
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: as Trump. He should have had more diversity in the

898
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: cabinet and Trump should have probably run with it. He

899
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: would be doing better if he had a female vice president.

900
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: And when you look at politics today, I mean the

901
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: bare pit, the bare pit part of politics, do you

902
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: think it's descended into it into in a worse territory

903
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: than it was when you were around?

904
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: Or was I miss question?

905
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: Tom Dear?

906
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 2: I loved question Tom, and you know it's so good,

907
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: it's so accountable. Other parliaments. You know, I've got friends

908
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 2: in the British Parliament and all parliaments around the world

909
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: and they just can't believe the Australian Parliament and you

910
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 2: know what, the accountability is extraordinary.

911
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: What do you mean they can't believe. What's the difference?

912
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: Well, because because you walk in, you don't know what

913
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: the questions are and it's brutal. I mean I remember,

914
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 2: you know, I remember when the GESC was being introduced.

915
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 2: I was responsible for that and I got ten questions

916
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: in a row in question time and I'd like exhaust it,

917
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: like it's like, you know, seriously flagellation on a grand scale.

918
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 2: And everyone be going, God, ten questions, how did you

919
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: do that? You know? And then I go and next

920
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: day I get ten more questions. I remember John Howard

921
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: slapping me on the back and saying, oh, you're losing

922
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 2: a bit of bark, but you'll be okay, you know,

923
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 2: and I'm like, God, was like, how do I do it?

924
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 2: And you get the adrenaline before question time. You see,

925
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: got to be on top of your brief because not

926
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: only do the opposition, find out your own colleagues work out,

927
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 2: and then the gallery and everyone else knows. You're not

928
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: on top of your brief. So you need to know

929
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: everything about your portfolio. And when you're the Treasurer and

930
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister, you need to know particularly so you know,

931
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: when I delivered the fourteen budget that everyone still talks about, well,

932
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: I was a great budget and the fourteen budget, you know,

933
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: I said, I went on Q and A by myself

934
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 2: on the ABC Q and A by myself, and everyone

935
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: thought I was going to fail, and I was. It

936
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: was Penwrith panthers, six hundred people. Apparently it was one

937
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: of the highest ever rating Q.

938
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: And as a friend environment Q and A.

939
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't a friendly environment, but I had to

940
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: show that I was on top of my brief. And

941
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: I have never in my life ever got such a

942
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 2: big response as I did after that, from people saying, wow,

943
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 2: that was you know, really important, really great you did it,

944
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 2: and great performance and all that sort of stuff, because

945
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: you had the opportunity shine in adverse circumstances, and in

946
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: Parliament you can shine and get a message across when

947
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: it's most hostile. It's not you can't create that environment.

948
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: I got a sense that you're missing a bit of it.

949
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 2: I miss question time. I mean I don't mind that,

950
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 2: you know, I don't mind the tough questions and so on,

951
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: like I want to be on top of my game.

952
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 2: And you know, but America would be so much better

953
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: if it had its cabinet subject to that cross examination

954
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: on the floor of Congress. They do it a bit

955
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: in the Senate hearings and so on, but you know,

956
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 2: that's just one hour every four months, six months, you know,

957
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: whereas question times every day of Parliament. Sitting in the

958
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: British Parliament, they again, they don't do it every day.

959
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 2: They have Prime Minister's questions once every two weeks or

960
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: one week or something like that. So I think Australia

961
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: has a great democracy and great accountability. It's one of

962
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: the reasons why we've got so little corruption. That's why

963
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 2: we do have a really good police system.

964
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: And if I was to ask you now, Joe said,

965
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: it's only based on what you know so far. What

966
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: do you think will happen in the election next year Australia.

967
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's obviously going to be close. Firstly, do

968
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: not believe that a government cannot lose in the first term.

969
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: It can.

970
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: And Anthony Alberese wasn't elected with the majorities that Howard

971
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: had in ninety six, that rud had in two thousand

972
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: and seven, or that Abbott had in twenty thirteen. We

973
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: had twenty thirty seats. He's got I think five or

974
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 2: six right, so you can lose very quickly. The second

975
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: thing is you've got to have an agenda, and I

976
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: think Peter Dutton has done a great job and rolling

977
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 2: out the agenda controversial at times, but everyone it really

978
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: does know what Peter Dutton stands for. And I think

979
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 2: and Anthony Alberz he's a very decent guy. I mean,

980
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: he's a made of mind to be honest, and you know,

981
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: he's a very he needs to have something that he's

982
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: going to fight for. And the hardest election I ever

983
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 2: forore Man, you remember it GST election eight, Oh my god,

984
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: and it was just absolute conviction. I just like to

985
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: I couldn't stand. I was campaigning and when the butcher

986
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: at Cameray told me, you know, he grilled me on

987
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 2: the GST for like an hour and a half and

988
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: on one vote and I'm working over time. He speaks

989
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: to people that come in. And then he said, I

990
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: hate the bloody thing. I'm not going to I'm not

991
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: going to support it. And then as I'm walking out,

992
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 2: he said, oh all right, I'll vote for you. I

993
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 2: thought I was just exhausted, right, and I thought, oh

994
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: my god, if we've had the courage to go to

995
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: the electorate with something that is unpopular but it's absolutely

996
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: the right thing for Australian. When we won, I was

997
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: so elated more than any other time because I restored

998
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: my faith in the Australian popular.

999
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: So would you think that? But what what controversial topic

1000
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: or controver a sure conviction that either one of the

1001
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: parties should be going to the election with. I mean,

1002
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: I mean, as nuclear is one, But what other thing

1003
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 1: is there something that you reckon would be a winner?

1004
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 2: Well, I think you've got to show Australians how you're

1005
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 2: going to make their lives better, what's for me? And well, yeah,

1006
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,359
Speaker 2: that's right, and that's fair enough. I mean, that's that's

1007
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: the world we've grown up in living. And but the

1008
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 2: thing is, it's not always going to be ice cream

1009
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: and lollies. Sometimes you're going to have your veggies and

1010
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: it's the courage to say to people, actually, we're going

1011
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 2: to have to do some hard yards here. Now. I

1012
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: admit twenty fourteen my budget, you know, I tried to

1013
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: do that, and what people said, you know, maybe it

1014
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 2: was my failure, maybe it was our failure, whatever the case,

1015
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: maybe it didn't prepare the ground. But in that budget,

1016
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: you know, think of it. I was, I was, I

1017
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 2: was murder for a five dollar co payment to go

1018
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: and see a doctor.

1019
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,959
Speaker 1: This is a sterity period, yeah, yeah.

1020
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: And I said, if we don't fix the roof now

1021
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: while the sun shining, then we're going to end up

1022
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: in work shape for and like you know what happened. Now,

1023
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: how much does it cost to go and see a doctor? Right?

1024
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: Forty dollars? Fifty dollars? People are telling me, yeah, that's right.

1025
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: If we had have got that through, it would have

1026
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: had some semblance of co payment. And by the way,

1027
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 2: six million people were excluding from any payment, right, so

1028
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: that was lost and then you know, more of a

1029
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: work for the doll and a few things that we

1030
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: had a lot of them actually went through from the

1031
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: fourteen budget. It just took a few years. But there

1032
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: are other things. You look at Western Sydney airport that

1033
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: was that budget. No government had the balls to do

1034
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 2: it for fifty sixty years, and the Abbot Hockey government did.

1035
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: And now, I mean I was so proud. I saw

1036
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 2: Albert Easy yesterday say yes, I'm so proud of that. Right,

1037
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of it. West Connects, Stage two, some

1038
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 2: of these things around Sydney. Every city in Australia got

1039
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: some infrastructure. The Medical Research Future Fund. I nearly died

1040
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: trying to get that up and it got up. Now

1041
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 2: when I hear a maid of mine who's a professor

1042
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: an eye surgery, he's now he got forty million dollars

1043
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 2: from that fund to build an eye and he's close

1044
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: to it. He's really, that's exactly what we're doing. We're

1045
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: investing in our health. So there are things you do

1046
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: in politics. And I'd love my children to go into politics.

1047
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 2: I'd love anyone's children, anyone to go into politics. Is

1048
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: you can make a difference, you really can. And you

1049
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: know what, They're not going to build monuments to you,

1050
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: but you just got to look around and you see

1051
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: a better quality of life and that's all worth it

1052
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 2: for everyone.

1053
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: And quick prediction in the US.

1054
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: Made too close to call.

1055
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 1: I mean, oh, it's that close.

1056
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: It is really that close. So because of the electoral system,

1057
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 2: Harris needs to win the national vote by about three percent,

1058
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: two to three percent. She's polling two one and a

1059
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: half to two I have on the If enthusiasm were

1060
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 2: the pole, she'd be through the roof Trump. I think

1061
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: of everyone that's going to vote for Harris is going

1062
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 2: to tell you. I reckon five out of one hundred

1063
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: that are voting for Trump won't tell you. And that's

1064
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: been proven in the past.

1065
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: So therefore polls aren't correct.

1066
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: Now his poles are not correct. I think hers are

1067
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: probably correct where she's at, but I think they're underestimating

1068
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 2: him by varying from place to place one to three percent.

1069
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: Because people are not ashamed, but maybe embarrassed.

1070
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: To Also they don't want to tell it because they

1071
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: fear they're going to be, you know, ostracized and smash.

1072
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: I mean twenty twenty, I remember speaking to people in

1073
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 2: the richest area of Houston and they said, come down

1074
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: and that was one of the rare places you could

1075
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 2: go during that period, and they're all, you know Biden signed.

1076
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: I said, Oh my god, I said, if Biden's you know,

1077
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: he's going to rob at home if this demography and

1078
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: they said, oh god, we never put a Trump sign up,

1079
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 2: would be our house would be egged and everything else.

1080
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: That area voted seventy percent Trump. Wow, So you know,

1081
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's a very hard to read. I

1082
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: mean Wisconsin last election, they underestimated Trump's vote by five

1083
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 2: percent in two thousand and six and it was about

1084
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: seven percent. You know, they underestimated it. So and Wisconsin

1085
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: is a key state. So I think it's incredibly close.

1086
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 2: And the House and the Senate are incredibly close as well.

1087
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 2: So you know, I met with a delegation this morning.

1088
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 2: The two Republicans told me they thought it's probable that

1089
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 2: Harris might win. And the two Democrats me, they thought, there.

1090
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: You go and joe Es fine, mate, are you enjoy

1091
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: your life?

1092
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 2: Oh? Man I am. I like it's you know, I've

1093
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: been blessed. Mane. I'm the son of a Palestinian refugee

1094
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: came to Australia, never thought he'd ever get a chance

1095
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: to live a life. Met a pix model from BONDI

1096
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 2: got to name my firm Bondi.

1097
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: Apartment Peaks Pias model being the amazing Peak magazine picks.

1098
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 2: Yes it was.

1099
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: They were always in the barbershop and in the dentists,

1100
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: in the doctor well.

1101
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 2: It was respectable those days. It was like fashions in

1102
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties and the nineteen forties, from nineteen forties

1103
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 2: and fifties. And I wouldn't you know. I pinched myself

1104
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: how lucky I am. And you know when I go

1105
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: to Washington, I got great mates in the White House

1106
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 2: and outside the White House. And you know, I still

1107
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,959
Speaker 2: have conversations with people where I go. I can't believe

1108
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: I'm listening to this.

1109
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: And do you see the current ambassador? Do you have

1110
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: much to do with Kemi?

1111
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: I do? I do? I do I do? And you

1112
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 2: know Kevin of course I was on Sutrise with him

1113
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: for ten years, right Morning TV, and we're union, yeah,

1114
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: and I love taking the mickey out of.

1115
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: It, but do to pologics drop away then when he

1116
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: takes over the ambassadorship and you sort of.

1117
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: It's Team Australia, always know, no matter what, no matter what.

1118
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: Kim Beasley was great to me, all of us, you know,

1119
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 2: Chipping after Arthur was after me. Everyone. Arthur's great and no,

1120
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 2: it's Australia first, always and as it should be right.

1121
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: And so I, you know, kept telling major Republicans and

1122
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: Trump people that Kevin's a good man and he's doing

1123
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: the right thing by Australia and he's got Australian support

1124
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 2: and that's what you do.

1125
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: But hasn't helped by what he said in the past.

1126
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: But no, and you know, but Trump's got a long

1127
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 2: list before he gets to Kevin r But I'll tell

1128
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: you a funny story. He's like, you know, I, for

1129
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 2: my sins did Q and A. You know, just before

1130
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 2: he was announced and Stan Grant asked me, he said,

1131
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 2: you know who should be the ambassador replace artist? I said, oh,

1132
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 2: I don't want to get into it. And he said,

1133
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: come on, you know and I said, well, maybe Julia

1134
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: Gillard or something. He says, what about Kevin Rudd? And

1135
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 2: I said, well, I thought we liked the Americans. Kevin

1136
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 2: was verb Oh God. So I'm sitting at the couch

1137
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:31,439
Speaker 2: and hi, joke Kevin, I'm coming over. He comes over

1138
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 2: and second bottle of wide started. He said, why do

1139
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 2: you hate me? I said, no, no hate you. He said,

1140
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: why did you say that? You know, like I said, mate,

1141
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 2: you're going to have a sense of humor after all

1142
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 2: these years, let's have a sense of humor here, Like

1143
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 2: I've had another bottle. So, you know, he and he's

1144
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 2: doing a great job. He really is. He's you know,

1145
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: it adds enormous gravitas to have a form prime minister

1146
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 2: as ambassador. As I say, he finally got the promotion,

1147
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 2: and then and then the thing is, you know, he

1148
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: has worked really hard at it, and I've defended him

1149
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: publicly and that's awkward for some of my team back

1150
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: in Australia in politics, but it's the right thing to do.

1151
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 2: He is, he's been doing a good job.

1152
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: Well made, You're doing a great job. You did, You're

1153
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: you're one. I've always been a fan of Joe Hockey,

1154
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: as you know, but you've done a great job for us,

1155
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: both in politics in Australia but also representing in America

1156
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: and what you're doing with your business these days. I'm

1157
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: hearing all the stories, and I hear lots of people

1158
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: talk to me, lots of people tell me about what

1159
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: Bondo Partners are doing outside of you know, outside of

1160
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: our usual group of friends. I hear your name raised

1161
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: a lot to make Congratulations and well done and things.

1162
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a leaf out of your if I

1163
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 2: would be one tenth of successful. Mate is Mark Burris.

1164
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'll be happy.

1165
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: I tell you where you are successful. You're still married

1166
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: and you've got a lovely family mate. You're a hundred

1167
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: times more successful. Might well?

1168
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 2: I love to me quite the same, Yea, they do.

1169
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 2: Thank you so much,