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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussions of abuse, trauma, mental health, and

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Speaker 2: family conflict. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Secrets of

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Speaker 2: the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle comments and in

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Speaker 2: this episode, I speak to Glenn Fisher, an abuse survivor,

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Speaker 2: advocate and founder of the leg Up Project.

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Speaker 1: By the age of seven, my dad goes to jail,

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Speaker 1: my mom gets put into a psych wood and we

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Speaker 1: get dumped in an orphanage. The house he puts me

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Speaker 1: into is a three bedroom house. It's got nine adults

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Speaker 1: in it, with three adult men. Two have got prior

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Speaker 1: convictions for pedophilia. It's funny. I could have my fingers

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Speaker 1: severed one day and the next day I'm out playing

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Speaker 1: with me mates and no one talks about It's just

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Speaker 1: the next day, you know. But what I do is

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Speaker 1: I go up to my abusers and I say, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is one day I tell the fucking world which

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Speaker 1: you did. But every person's going to know what you did.

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Speaker 1: We've got to protect our cues. Nay, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: not a commodity for people twitters and make money up.

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Speaker 3: We'll get into the ass.

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Speaker 2: He Grizzy, going talk me through your childhood and how

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Speaker 2: you got to being where you are, and also about

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Speaker 2: your time in King's Cross.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up to a dad that was a pedophile.

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Speaker 1: My mother was heroinautic, alcoholic with schizophrenia. So as you

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Speaker 1: can imagine, there was a lot of violence in my

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Speaker 1: family home. A lot of essay abuse was going on,

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Speaker 1: as with an uncle that had me in and out

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Speaker 1: of institutions at a very young age. You know, by

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Speaker 1: the age of seven, my dad goes to jail, my

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Speaker 1: mom gets put into a cyclood and we get dumped

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Speaker 1: in an orphanage. That kind of stuffs then. So I

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Speaker 1: was seven when I got put into the orphanage. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's seven years old. And it was kind of tough

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Speaker 1: for the first two years in an orphanage because I

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Speaker 1: not that it was hard in the orphanage. It was

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Speaker 1: just hard because you felt you were left behind. Now

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Speaker 1: you kind of feel dumped. But I get out of

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Speaker 1: there at nine, sweet life really starts to turn hard

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Speaker 1: for me. My mum attacks me once, saves my fingers,

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Speaker 1: tries to cut off my fingers with a carving knife,

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Speaker 1: and then I get attacked again by my uncle Alan,

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Speaker 1: and then I get Scotch taped by Uncle Pat.

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Speaker 3: So hold on, so let's let's let's just go. Why

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Speaker 3: was your mom doing this? You?

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Speaker 1: My mom had kid tephrenia and she was addicted to

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Speaker 1: drugs and her temperament used to change quite often. But

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Speaker 1: on this particular day, she woke up. Back in the day,

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Speaker 1: we used to have remember this to WHIPI trucks, So

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Speaker 1: WHIPI trucks to come around me eased to deliver a cigarettes, Beck's, Powder's, Vincent's,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Mum gets up in the morning,

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Speaker 1: she's scurring around for change, trying to find some money

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Speaker 1: to buy becks and Vincent's, can't find any turns it

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Speaker 1: on me. So I used to tie my money off me,

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Speaker 1: didn't you a little prick? And I'm like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: fucking take shit, mate, Like you know, I didn't, you know?

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Speaker 1: And she just kept going on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: She picks up a knife and just froys that and

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Speaker 1: she says, oh, catch your fucking fingers off, your little prick,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I just don't say nothing because I'm

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Speaker 1: always scared that she's going to lose it. But this

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Speaker 1: is the worst she ever loses. That sudden, she drabs

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Speaker 1: me by my hand and she drags me across the

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Speaker 1: carpet into the bathroom. Another woman turns up named Michelle,

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Speaker 1: who helps her do it, drags it to the company

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if she meant to severyone on ip,

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Speaker 1: but she hands my fingers over the sting like that,

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Speaker 1: and she says.

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Speaker 3: You took my change, didn't you? A little prick?

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Speaker 1: You took it, didn't you, And then bang just slashes

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Speaker 1: both my fingers.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The part that makes the most angry about that brain

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Speaker 1: is the fact that when I get taken to hospital,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the hospital. On this side, I'm getting

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Speaker 1: stitched up. On this side they're putting eye do it

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Speaker 1: and all over my body because I've got carpet burnord

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Speaker 1: and one side of my body. The doctor turns round

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Speaker 1: to my mother and he says, what happened to this

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Speaker 1: little fella? She goes, what are you fucking saying? And

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Speaker 1: she just lost the plot. Both cowered like freaking girls.

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Speaker 1: Didn't say a fucking word, you know, Like I mean,

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Speaker 1: You've got to understand, this is the seventies. It's a

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Speaker 1: different era that happens today. Mates front page knews she's

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Speaker 1: a gal. You know, it's a different different keederal.

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Speaker 3: Well, was there no one you could have called out

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Speaker 3: to or reached out to back then?

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Speaker 1: No, it's just a different time, you know, Like I

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Speaker 1: didn't really I had my dad, and my dad was

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Speaker 1: worse than my mum.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: My dad's in jail for being a predator and my

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Speaker 1: mom's got schizophrenia. But it's about ten years old where

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Speaker 1: things start to really take shape. My dad gets out

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Speaker 1: of jail, takes custody of me. But I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be there, you know, so I start running away

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Speaker 1: from home. You know, I just keep bolting Bolton Bolton.

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Speaker 1: But in the seventies that's an offense. It's called uncontrollable,

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Speaker 1: you know. So they start put me in place like

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Speaker 1: war on my yas Ma. I'll Bene Street and eventually

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Speaker 1: in an institution called Derek Darry Boyce Home in Windsor,

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Speaker 1: which is it's a rough introduction, you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: rough place to go into. You know, you've got to

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Speaker 1: march everywhere like you're in the army. A lot of

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Speaker 1: abuse going on with offices and kids, older kids. I'm

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Speaker 1: not supposed to be in that institution. Because I'm arrested

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Speaker 1: with my brother, they separate siblings, and because I'm the older sibling,

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Speaker 1: I get bumped up to the older institution. So I'm

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Speaker 1: in with kids. I've got facial growth and beards and

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Speaker 1: like big boys, and I'm just like this tiny little fella.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The whole time, every time I'm in a shower, people

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Speaker 1: are touching me. It's like always this sexual induendo the

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Speaker 1: whole time I'm there. Wow, yeah, it's just full on.

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Speaker 1: But the mast the same part of my story, bro,

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Speaker 1: is when I get out of Dererek, I run away again,

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Speaker 1: and this time I try and do what you say,

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Speaker 1: and I try and look for help. I go to

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Speaker 1: actually docks in Mount Drewitt and I speak to the

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Speaker 1: officer that I'm Brian Hubble and I say, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: sick of being hit, hurt, abused, you know, for facts.

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Speaker 1: Take help me, man, And he says, yeah, okay, I

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Speaker 1: can see if I can find your posta care and

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Speaker 1: he does. He finds me this Fostic family living in

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Speaker 1: Mount Drewert. The house he puts me into is a

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Speaker 1: three bedroom house. It's got nine adults in it. They

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Speaker 1: put me into a back bedroom with three adult men.

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Speaker 1: Two have got prime convictions for pedophilia. One yeah, like

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Speaker 1: two prior convictions. One abuses a two year old boy.

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Speaker 1: The other one abused a girl who was in their custody.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't take much to work out what happens, you know.

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Speaker 1: I just can't take it anymore. Made after being abused

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Speaker 1: everywhere I go, I'm abused here and understood.

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Speaker 2: Fuck is when you got into that house? When was

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Speaker 2: it that you knew who they were?

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Speaker 3: Like that? Did you know that when you were going in?

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Speaker 1: I had no idea? And that's the thing. Docs didn't either,

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Speaker 1: like they had some kind of responsibility to know the

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Speaker 1: people being in that home or do some kind of

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Speaker 1: brackgown trick. But they don't, you know, And I get it.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to place kids. And I'm at that age now,

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old. I'm hard to place. But yeah, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: They didn't. And I wake up in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night and I'm being touch and I'm like, fuck,

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Speaker 1: I'm jack of this man. I like this time I

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Speaker 1: go off. You know, I'm getting older, I've gone more vocal,

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Speaker 1: and I end up going back to my mother. But

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Speaker 1: my mother's now moved to South Australia with another boyfriend

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Speaker 1: who's also a drunk, who just like four day trip

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Speaker 1: to South Australia, just drinking at every pub, fight and

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Speaker 1: just jackie it. I tried to take on my mother's

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Speaker 1: boyfriend because he tries to hit her and then she

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Speaker 1: rings the police on me for trying to fight him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So she puts me on a bus to Oxford Street

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Speaker 1: to meet my real dad. When I get there with

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Speaker 1: my brother, I'm walking behind my dad. My dad turned

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Speaker 1: around says, where the fuck you think you're going? She's

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Speaker 1: not coming with me, mate, fuck off? JIGETI Foster family,

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old, nowhere to go. I end up on

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Speaker 1: the street to King's Cross.

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Speaker 3: Was there any good times with your parents? Like? Can

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Speaker 3: you think of anything? Or was it just hell for you?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about that the other day.

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Speaker 1: I get upset when not trying to think about that,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, But there was one memory I have

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Speaker 1: with my dad. We're at a rodeo once when we

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Speaker 1: were a kids, and took me to a rodeo and

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Speaker 1: these two kids were fighting, punching on and they were

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Speaker 1: surrounded by all these men, you know, and it was

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Speaker 1: the bravest thing I've seen my dad ever do. He

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Speaker 1: walked in the middle and he pulled these kids apart,

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Speaker 1: and he says to the men, he said, if you

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Speaker 1: want to fucking fight, fight each o. I said, leave

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Speaker 1: the fucking kids out of it. And I remember the fear, like,

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Speaker 1: even though all that stuff my dad done to me,

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Speaker 1: I was still afraid that someone was going to hurt

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Speaker 1: my dad, you know. I remember that when he went

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Speaker 1: in the bullwag and two was a kid and he

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Speaker 1: drove off. The pain I felt of losing my dad

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Speaker 1: despite the crimes that he did, you know. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot of good memories, mate, No, I

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Speaker 1: can't really think of any. It was just drinking, drug use, violence, screaming, yelling,

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Speaker 1: and like twenty two times I was removed by docks

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Speaker 1: before the age of seven. That gives you an indication

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Speaker 1: of how bad it was, you know.

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Speaker 3: What a our grandparents and old things like that, they

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Speaker 3: didn't evernks.

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Speaker 1: Mother's mum was an absolute drunk. My dad's dad died

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Speaker 1: when he was very young, and his mother was just

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Speaker 1: an old really nasty.

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Speaker 2: I'm being the seventies like it's hard for neighbors or

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Speaker 2: anything like that's even come and help you for anything

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Speaker 2: that you needed.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, living in Mountain drew that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the people that I O befriended had a

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Speaker 1: very similar upbringing. Their parents were violent, drunks, you know,

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Speaker 1: were kind of accumulated together. That makes sense. I've sort

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Speaker 1: of found those people. I was always sort of at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the chain. I was a small, runty

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Speaker 1: kind of kid, you know, and so it was normal

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, like it's funny. I could have

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Speaker 1: my fingers set it one day and the next day

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Speaker 1: I'm out playing with me mates and no one talks

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Speaker 1: about It's just like it's the next day, you know.

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Speaker 3: So you just had a brother, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Just how I had two brothers and a sister, but

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Speaker 1: only one brother I was close to. I left the

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Speaker 1: age at my home when I was ten, and so

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Speaker 1: they were like six and five, so I never really

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Speaker 1: got to know they get abused as well. I can't

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Speaker 1: tell other people's abuse, you can understand, Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can't share that story. All I can say is that

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Speaker 1: I was and you know, it happened everywhere I went.

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Speaker 1: As a kid, I had the misfortunate made of looking

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Speaker 1: like a pretty girl. When I was a kid, I

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Speaker 1: had long blonde hair. I was very effeminate looking, and

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Speaker 1: that made me a target, you know, to mean, everywhere

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Speaker 1: I went. It's like I had it fucking written on

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Speaker 1: my forehead. I remember walking in the day of kings

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Speaker 1: Cross and I wrote this in my book, and the

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Speaker 1: first thing I said was, this is it. No one's

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Speaker 1: going to tell me what to do, no more, no

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Speaker 1: one's going to abuse me. I'm done. And I wish

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Speaker 1: that was my story, but it's not.

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Speaker 3: You know, do you.

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Speaker 2: Think your parents ever wanted kids for the way they've

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Speaker 2: treated you?

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: I think that my mother, she had four kids at

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Speaker 1: a very young age. She's living with a violent, abusive,

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Speaker 1: narcissist you know, who's also a pedophile. Must have been

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Speaker 1: hard for my mum. She grew up in violent alcoholism,

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Speaker 1: So you know, I believe she wanted me. Like so

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Speaker 1: one thing you're talking about good times, I don't remember them,

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Speaker 1: but I have a baby book for the first two

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Speaker 1: years that's been filled out, so there's some kind of

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Speaker 1: love there. You know, she must have cared about me

241
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Speaker 1: somewhere along the line. But then a second kid to

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Speaker 1: third kid, a four kid alcohol, you know, Heroine, we

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Speaker 1: probably became a burden to her.

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Speaker 2: Was the only abusive to his own kids or abusive

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Speaker 2: to other kids.

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Speaker 1: My dad was charged with offense to another kid as well.

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Speaker 1: So he's been charged twice with predatory charges before you

248
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Speaker 1: were born a while year after. Yeah, so I don't

249
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Speaker 1: know that he should be back from that. The police

250
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Speaker 1: were very they didn't want to give me a lot,

251
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Speaker 1: but it was funnily a screw was the person that

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Speaker 1: gave me the information in jail. He came and visited

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Speaker 1: him when I was in jail and went to take

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Speaker 1: me out on leave and they said, mate, he can't

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Speaker 1: take out, And they called me into the office and

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Speaker 1: he sat me down, mister Clark, and I remember him

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Speaker 1: telling to me and it was like I knew, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't know the conviction was what it was. And

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Speaker 1: he said, mate, your dad's been charged twice for this offense,

260
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Speaker 1: you know. And it was kind of a sobering moment,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of knew, I just didn't know for sure.

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Speaker 3: It was always suspicion, you know, as song was the

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Speaker 3: last time you've seen you do so.

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Speaker 1: Funnily enough, I hadn't seen my dad since ninety two

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Speaker 1: when I got out of jail. But about just before Christmas,

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Speaker 1: just you're gone. I got a call from my sister

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Speaker 1: and she said, your dad is dying. He's got Leuis

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Speaker 1: Dementiy's been put in the hospital. So I how did

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Speaker 1: you feel about that?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 1: So when I went there, I had all this stuff

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, Neil, I was going to

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Speaker 1: do you said that some packing this and packing that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I wanted to get answers, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I walked in the door and I've seen this

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Speaker 1: frail old man, eighty year old. He was little, like

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Speaker 1: you know. My memory of this is Monstar. It's just

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Speaker 1: this tiny, little skinny man going around the bed and

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Speaker 1: he looks at me and he goes, oh wow, you're tall.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I was like forgiveness. I just

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Speaker 1: felt this forgiveness in my heart. You know what, this

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Speaker 1: man's going to die. He doesn't remember what's happened.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't know for sure what like what your

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Speaker 2: dad was going for or and stely like that. You see,

285
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Speaker 2: I haven't spoke to my mom for over seventeen years.

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Speaker 2: She disowned me because of what I did for a

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Speaker 2: liven and she said to like. The last words were

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Speaker 2: she said to me was You're dead to this family. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so I don't exist in my mother's eyes anymore. But

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Speaker 2: the thing is I've always kept I'm very stubborn, and

291
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Speaker 2: if anything like that were to happen, I'm so stubborn

292
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Speaker 2: I couldn't care because if you can say that to

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Speaker 2: your son, you don't exist to me. And that's why

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Speaker 2: I was saying to you, like, did you go there

295
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Speaker 2: with hatred?

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Speaker 3: Did you go there? Yeah? And you said you said forgiveness.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean that be I found forgiveness

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Speaker 1: when I got there, when I sat down on the

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Speaker 1: bed next to him, and I just thought, you know what,

300
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Speaker 1: what's the point. There's nothing he could say that's going

301
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Speaker 1: to undo anything could happen. There's nothing that can change,

302
00:11:40,561 --> 00:11:42,161
Speaker 1: you know. It is what it is. I'm about to

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00:11:42,201 --> 00:11:44,401
Speaker 1: lose him. What I didn't know, Neil, is that my

304
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Speaker 1: brother was also in hospital on the other side, only

305
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Speaker 1: about a clometer prom him with a brain tumor. Wow,

306
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Speaker 1: he also died. They died within days of each other,

307
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Speaker 1: and no one told me that. I actually got told

308
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Speaker 1: about three months after his funeral by his wife. You said,

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Speaker 1: why weren't you ready his funeral? I said, who's funeral?

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Speaker 1: If you said your brother Jason, I fucking lost my shit.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jason was the only one I was really

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Speaker 1: close to, you know, and we had a four and

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Speaker 1: out in eighty eight in the cross. He slept with

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Speaker 1: the girl I was with. We just had a baby,

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Speaker 1: me and this girl together. I never did like you stubborn,

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Speaker 1: that's it. You're bucking need to me, and I wish

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Speaker 1: I could go back on that, you know, like I

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00:12:19,761 --> 00:12:22,041
Speaker 1: ended up making after that, marrying the most beautiful woman,

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Speaker 1: having five amazing kids. You know, like you did me

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Speaker 1: a favor. But that's not how I saw it in

321
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Speaker 1: my head. I saw you betray me. B Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially a brother, our brother, that's right. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: there's a million people as well. Just don't go in

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Speaker 1: my one, and I won't over of yours.

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Speaker 3: Did you go see your dad's funeral? No, you didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. No, you're just more forget. Forget.

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Speaker 2: I forgive the forgiveness of them, Like at the hospital

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Speaker 2: and that you thought that's it.

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Speaker 3: It's a closure now, Yeah, its closure.

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Speaker 1: I remember sitting on the bed next to him, and

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Speaker 1: I just briefed out and I just thought, nothing, there's

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Speaker 1: no point saying all what I want to say. It's futile.

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Speaker 1: And I just let it go. And I was kind

334
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Speaker 1: to him, you know. I sat there and we gave

335
00:12:55,721 --> 00:12:58,041
Speaker 1: him lollies and with my sister and you know, and

336
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Speaker 1: I said, does he need anything? And she said no,

337
00:12:59,961 --> 00:13:01,681
Speaker 1: I've got it covered. And I said, all right, I'm

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00:13:01,681 --> 00:13:05,441
Speaker 1: out of here, and then I left and that chapter closed.

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00:13:05,721 --> 00:13:06,961
Speaker 3: You know what about your mother?

340
00:13:07,441 --> 00:13:10,001
Speaker 1: So my mother died in two thousand and fourteen. I

341
00:13:10,001 --> 00:13:12,041
Speaker 1: think I've been per sema. She was in hospital for

342
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Speaker 1: a year. I only found out after she died.

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Speaker 3: As well, you.

344
00:13:15,081 --> 00:13:16,441
Speaker 2: Think you could forgive it if you had to go

345
00:13:16,441 --> 00:13:19,001
Speaker 2: to the hospital and you knew about that.

346
00:13:18,361 --> 00:13:20,521
Speaker 1: That would have been a harder one. I think I could.

347
00:13:20,561 --> 00:13:22,601
Speaker 1: I have now. I'm at a point now where I've forgiven.

348
00:13:22,641 --> 00:13:25,561
Speaker 1: But but that's not about them, that's about menial. That's

349
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Speaker 1: about me saying, you know what, you're no longer hold

350
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Speaker 1: space in my fucking head. I'm a father now, and

351
00:13:29,921 --> 00:13:31,561
Speaker 1: I need to worry about being a dad and a

352
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Speaker 1: granddad as opposed to karying all that anger, because that

353
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Speaker 1: anger is toxic bro. Yeah, you know, that's the stuff

354
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Speaker 1: that gets us in trouble. You hold your kids so

355
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Speaker 1: thirty six, thirty one, Jesus twenty six, twenty five, and twenty.

356
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Speaker 3: Do they know about your past with your mother and father?

357
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Speaker 3: They do?

358
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Speaker 1: How do they feel about that? We don't talk a

359
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Speaker 1: lot about it.

360
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Speaker 3: A lot.

361
00:13:53,721 --> 00:13:55,601
Speaker 1: I keep my kids a lot out of what you've

362
00:13:55,601 --> 00:13:57,841
Speaker 1: probably noticed on my social media stuff to protect them

363
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Speaker 1: because of the nature of what I speak about. But yeah,

364
00:14:00,721 --> 00:14:03,081
Speaker 1: at different point, I've had conversations with different ones, you know,

365
00:14:03,161 --> 00:14:05,361
Speaker 1: and they know, you know, I live. One of my

366
00:14:05,361 --> 00:14:07,921
Speaker 1: sons lives with me, Josh who plays football, beautiful boy,

367
00:14:08,281 --> 00:14:11,201
Speaker 1: and they know, they just, you know, it just sort

368
00:14:11,201 --> 00:14:12,281
Speaker 1: of un said stuff, you know.

369
00:14:12,361 --> 00:14:14,721
Speaker 3: They just they've met your brothers and sisters who were left.

370
00:14:14,761 --> 00:14:18,401
Speaker 1: They no, never I will never ever, would have never

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Speaker 1: allowed them to go near my children. That was something

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00:14:21,161 --> 00:14:22,881
Speaker 1: I said in my head. My dad would never meet

373
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Speaker 1: my children, my brother. So, one of my sons met

374
00:14:25,761 --> 00:14:28,441
Speaker 1: my dad and he walks up to him and he

375
00:14:28,841 --> 00:14:30,441
Speaker 1: says to me, I really could have done better with

376
00:14:30,521 --> 00:14:33,681
Speaker 1: you with your dad and my son six foot five

377
00:14:33,721 --> 00:14:37,201
Speaker 1: grades you fucking think think, mate. You know, you're like

378
00:14:37,321 --> 00:14:39,841
Speaker 1: Is that the best you've gotten? And I was like, yeah, all.

379
00:14:39,801 --> 00:14:43,241
Speaker 3: Right, you know, so tell me about when you went

380
00:14:43,241 --> 00:14:44,401
Speaker 3: to King's Cross. Yeah.

381
00:14:44,561 --> 00:14:46,481
Speaker 1: I arrived in Kings Cross in nine and eighty two.

382
00:14:46,561 --> 00:14:48,641
Speaker 1: I took the streets really quickly. It's one of the

383
00:14:48,641 --> 00:14:51,201
Speaker 1: things that happened for me was I wasn't tough, I

384
00:14:51,241 --> 00:14:53,161
Speaker 1: wasn't anything else, so just me, you know, and I

385
00:14:53,161 --> 00:14:55,201
Speaker 1: turned up and I just met all these other street kids.

386
00:14:55,361 --> 00:14:57,921
Speaker 1: Started living in squatch, you know. I remember the first year,

387
00:14:57,961 --> 00:15:00,241
Speaker 1: we're playing bluddy chasing's on the street like bloody children,

388
00:15:00,281 --> 00:15:02,441
Speaker 1: do you know, running up and down, ignorant to what's

389
00:15:02,481 --> 00:15:04,961
Speaker 1: going on. Really, you see it the bikers and the

390
00:15:05,161 --> 00:15:06,881
Speaker 1: in a year, you know, the Cross. But to me

391
00:15:06,921 --> 00:15:09,121
Speaker 1: it was just like colorful, you know. I used to

392
00:15:09,161 --> 00:15:11,441
Speaker 1: call it the weed and the wonderful. But it wasn't

393
00:15:11,521 --> 00:15:14,081
Speaker 1: until I got a girlfriend. My first girlfriend and ain't

394
00:15:14,121 --> 00:15:15,801
Speaker 1: was Linda. I try not to get upset when I

395
00:15:15,801 --> 00:15:17,481
Speaker 1: talk about her. And you'll see way in a minute.

396
00:15:17,601 --> 00:15:20,761
Speaker 1: But we end up moving into a refuge. The refuge

397
00:15:20,801 --> 00:15:23,401
Speaker 1: was actually opened, so you'll be surprised us on this board.

398
00:15:23,401 --> 00:15:26,041
Speaker 1: It was founded by a children's magistrate and old Blackmore.

399
00:15:26,401 --> 00:15:29,161
Speaker 1: It had seven other judges on board. It had five

400
00:15:29,241 --> 00:15:31,921
Speaker 1: men working there, all of who are pedophiles whom I've

401
00:15:31,961 --> 00:15:35,041
Speaker 1: now put in jail. And also it had Bob Hawk,

402
00:15:35,401 --> 00:15:38,521
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister was also on this board, not involved

403
00:15:38,561 --> 00:15:41,121
Speaker 1: in any the abuse, but involved in this refuge. He's

404
00:15:41,121 --> 00:15:43,041
Speaker 1: complicit in the fact that he knew and did nothing.

405
00:15:43,641 --> 00:15:45,641
Speaker 1: But what ends up happening is we all movie in

406
00:15:45,681 --> 00:15:46,121
Speaker 1: a whole pot.

407
00:15:46,201 --> 00:15:49,481
Speaker 3: Where's a refuge? So where's the refuge? Liverpool Street? Fortune?

408
00:15:49,521 --> 00:15:51,361
Speaker 1: I Liverpool Street? So you know where's Austin's Hospital is?

409
00:15:51,681 --> 00:15:53,601
Speaker 1: Come back on the street to Liverpool Street. It's almost

410
00:15:53,601 --> 00:15:56,121
Speaker 1: the line on that corner. It's actually called West Street

411
00:15:56,121 --> 00:15:58,161
Speaker 1: that runs through. Yeah yet West Street. Yeah, so on

412
00:15:58,281 --> 00:16:02,521
Speaker 1: that corner bush Shop, and we moved in and lived

413
00:16:02,521 --> 00:16:06,801
Speaker 1: there and then all this abuse starts to transpire. And

414
00:16:07,001 --> 00:16:08,641
Speaker 1: you read my book, or if you've heard my story,

415
00:16:08,641 --> 00:16:10,721
Speaker 1: you know what actually happens is I walk into the

416
00:16:10,721 --> 00:16:13,001
Speaker 1: office one day and the guy Simon Davis, who runs

417
00:16:13,041 --> 00:16:15,881
Speaker 1: a place, he's drinking alcohol and he's playing the guitar

418
00:16:15,921 --> 00:16:17,441
Speaker 1: and he's singing all these songs and he says, Oh,

419
00:16:17,441 --> 00:16:19,841
Speaker 1: come in, have a drink. So I sit down. You know,

420
00:16:19,921 --> 00:16:22,921
Speaker 1: I'm fourteen now start drinking scotch with him. Another guy

421
00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:25,961
Speaker 1: comes in named Paul Jones, who've also had convicted, hands

422
00:16:26,041 --> 00:16:29,441
Speaker 1: me these tablets called reds. Back then, they're called reds, right,

423
00:16:29,481 --> 00:16:31,241
Speaker 1: So I take a couple of them the next thing,

424
00:16:31,281 --> 00:16:33,881
Speaker 1: and I wake up in the morning. I'm semi acred,

425
00:16:34,001 --> 00:16:36,641
Speaker 1: and I'm starting to get all these snippets of what's happened,

426
00:16:36,681 --> 00:16:38,561
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like, fuck, I lose my shit.

427
00:16:39,081 --> 00:16:41,241
Speaker 1: But what ends up happening is in nineteen eighty three,

428
00:16:41,281 --> 00:16:43,881
Speaker 1: in August, who gets closed down the refuge? Right, all

429
00:16:43,881 --> 00:16:46,201
Speaker 1: those kids are pretty much all the boards are being abused.

430
00:16:46,521 --> 00:16:48,841
Speaker 1: My girlfriend and I move out, and then someone I

431
00:16:48,841 --> 00:16:50,521
Speaker 1: go to Adelaide. I'm a breakdancer, so I used to

432
00:16:50,521 --> 00:16:52,041
Speaker 1: be a breakdance on the streets to the cross. That's

433
00:16:52,041 --> 00:16:54,241
Speaker 1: what it's to how I made my money, right, And

434
00:16:54,521 --> 00:16:57,561
Speaker 1: I go to Adelaide to do a breakdancing competition, and

435
00:16:57,601 --> 00:16:59,841
Speaker 1: while I'm in there, we win. I come first place, right,

436
00:16:59,881 --> 00:17:02,161
Speaker 1: I win this competition. I'm so ecstatic. I'm walking down

437
00:17:02,161 --> 00:17:03,321
Speaker 1: the stairs like so puffed.

438
00:17:03,321 --> 00:17:03,481
Speaker 3: You know.

439
00:17:03,521 --> 00:17:05,201
Speaker 1: I've got two hundred dollars and I've got all this

440
00:17:05,241 --> 00:17:07,241
Speaker 1: stuff going on at the bottom of the stairs. Is

441
00:17:07,241 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 1: one of my mates, Johnny Chapman from the Refuge, and

442
00:17:10,001 --> 00:17:13,001
Speaker 1: he looks sombra, you know, he looks sad. And I said, hey,

443
00:17:13,001 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 1: you doing mate, you know, give him a big hugan

444
00:17:14,681 --> 00:17:16,440
Speaker 1: he just doesn't kind of move, and he goes, bro,

445
00:17:16,521 --> 00:17:18,761
Speaker 1: I've got something to tell you. I said, what's happened mate?

446
00:17:18,801 --> 00:17:23,641
Speaker 1: He goes, your girlfriend's been murdered Mae. And she's sixteen,

447
00:17:23,681 --> 00:17:26,561
Speaker 1: you know, like just turned sixteen. And what happened was

448
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,641
Speaker 1: two guys gave a heroine, both of them rape her

449
00:17:31,241 --> 00:17:34,201
Speaker 1: and just leave her, leave her there, you know. And

450
00:17:34,441 --> 00:17:37,041
Speaker 1: they get convicted, right, They get caught, convicted, get twenty

451
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 1: years and then they appeal and they gave before a

452
00:17:39,481 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 1: judge named Judge Yeldham. I don't know if you go

453
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: haded Yeldham, but Yeldham was a predator. Judge used to

454
00:17:43,761 --> 00:17:46,561
Speaker 1: abuse kids in the train stations. He was actually called

455
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: before the Woodraw Commission and then it took his life

456
00:17:49,281 --> 00:17:52,880
Speaker 1: just before the thing happened. He was unknown predator in

457
00:17:52,921 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 1: the streets. But what I do is I go up

458
00:17:54,961 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 1: to my abuses and I say, hey, I said, one

459
00:17:56,961 --> 00:17:58,881
Speaker 1: day I tell the fucking world which you did. I said,

460
00:17:58,921 --> 00:18:00,160
Speaker 1: one day, I'm going to fucking write a book. And

461
00:18:00,201 --> 00:18:01,961
Speaker 1: I said, every fucking person's going to know what you did,

462
00:18:02,041 --> 00:18:03,801
Speaker 1: and I wast going to hold you accountable. And he

463
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,880
Speaker 1: laughed in my face, right the two than me laughing

464
00:18:05,921 --> 00:18:08,081
Speaker 1: at me. He said, you're an MPJ. You'll be dead

465
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: by the age of twenty one. And he said, you

466
00:18:09,681 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 1: can't even read and write. You're a literate. Are you

467
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 1: going to write a fucking book? I stowed that away.

468
00:18:14,041 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 1: Problem is then made as I pick up Heroin, I

469
00:18:16,561 --> 00:18:19,321
Speaker 1: become a heroin addict and all the things at Heroin.

470
00:18:19,521 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 3: What did you think you picked up on the Heroin for?

471
00:18:21,681 --> 00:18:23,640
Speaker 2: Was that to clear your mind and to let yourself

472
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 2: go a bit because of the stress and not all

473
00:18:25,321 --> 00:18:26,881
Speaker 2: the trauma that you've gone through.

474
00:18:27,441 --> 00:18:29,201
Speaker 1: I think so. I think that when I first started,

475
00:18:29,241 --> 00:18:31,401
Speaker 1: I started using speed, so I got used to using

476
00:18:31,441 --> 00:18:33,441
Speaker 1: the needle. I was stealing for bikers in the cross

477
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,761
Speaker 1: for about a year, but it scattered me, mate. I

478
00:18:35,761 --> 00:18:37,241
Speaker 1: was a fucking scatter, you know. And then all of

479
00:18:37,281 --> 00:18:39,561
Speaker 1: a sudden, the first time I used gear. It's almost

480
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,561
Speaker 1: like I wrote in my book, like the answer to glean,

481
00:18:42,521 --> 00:18:44,561
Speaker 1: it was like there's peace and this cuve over my

482
00:18:44,561 --> 00:18:47,041
Speaker 1: body because I was getting flashbacks and all this stuff

483
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 1: going on in my head. As soon as I took it,

484
00:18:48,521 --> 00:18:50,241
Speaker 1: it was like it all stopped. It was like it

485
00:18:50,321 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: all stopped. But it's an illusion. It's one off. You

486
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,880
Speaker 1: spend the next thirty years trying to chase that feeling.

487
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 1: You never get it. Spend more time in withdrawals and

488
00:18:57,281 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: chasing the dragon than you do on it.

489
00:18:58,801 --> 00:18:59,121
Speaker 3: You know.

490
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,641
Speaker 1: But I'm a big believer that a lot of addiction

491
00:19:02,721 --> 00:19:06,521
Speaker 1: and alcoholism is untreated trauma. It's usually an undercurrent of

492
00:19:06,561 --> 00:19:10,441
Speaker 1: something untreated, either the mental health trauma, you know, DV,

493
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,321
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And that's definitely my story. But problem,

494
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,160
Speaker 1: my whole life changed the mate I start doing arm robberies,

495
00:19:17,201 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 1: I start robbing dealers. I start like I just became

496
00:19:19,521 --> 00:19:21,521
Speaker 1: a menace. And I got to a point where I

497
00:19:21,521 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 1: didn't give a shit. Like my mates were dying around me.

498
00:19:23,801 --> 00:19:26,321
Speaker 1: I'm literally watching friend after friend after friend, and I

499
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,761
Speaker 1: know it's my turn coming. I'm dropping, like I kept

500
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,241
Speaker 1: dropping all the time. I started taking pills, and I'm

501
00:19:31,241 --> 00:19:33,401
Speaker 1: becoming more brazen, you know. I used to go out

502
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,321
Speaker 1: and do robberies and go to my dealer, and then

503
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:36,681
Speaker 1: I got sick of the fucker's mate.

504
00:19:36,721 --> 00:19:37,681
Speaker 3: They're always fucking me around.

505
00:19:37,761 --> 00:19:39,801
Speaker 1: Yeah, a ten minutes fucking an hour later, like fuck

506
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 1: these guns, you give it to me, And I'm surprised

507
00:19:45,681 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 1: I didn't get in trouble, especially in ninety four.

508
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,241
Speaker 3: I robbed he.

509
00:19:48,961 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: I won't say who, but a dealer who worked for

510
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: someone who was pretty I'll tell you later on. And

511
00:19:54,681 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 1: I got him around the corner, right. The funniest thing

512
00:19:56,761 --> 00:19:58,081
Speaker 1: is that we come around the corner of the back

513
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,120
Speaker 1: of the pussy Cat, you know, the arm colored street.

514
00:20:00,481 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: We go behind the steps up there, and as we

515
00:20:02,481 --> 00:20:04,201
Speaker 1: walk up there, he walks in and I go bang,

516
00:20:04,321 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: and I you by the right, and he's got all

517
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 1: these balloons in his mouth. It's a bit about and

518
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,561
Speaker 1: I'm with another guy who's supposed to be keeping cocky

519
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,281
Speaker 1: for me, helping me and my girl. Anyway, the guy

520
00:20:12,321 --> 00:20:15,401
Speaker 1: says green stretch, stretch, and you say my name, Abra

521
00:20:15,441 --> 00:20:17,041
Speaker 1: and aver right, do you know where we are? And

522
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,041
Speaker 1: then runs off. This leaves me pasted right, and then

523
00:20:19,041 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: my girl says, Glenne's armed. He pulls out this fucking

524
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,001
Speaker 1: big machedie out of the back of me. Man I

525
00:20:23,001 --> 00:20:25,841
Speaker 1: managed to grab his arm throwing up the thin. But

526
00:20:25,921 --> 00:20:27,640
Speaker 1: for the next couple of months, every time I went

527
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,161
Speaker 1: to the cross the score, I'm playing chasings like you'd

528
00:20:30,201 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 1: see me in over the place.

529
00:20:31,961 --> 00:20:33,081
Speaker 3: It was fucking crazy.

530
00:20:33,721 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm lucky I didn't die, you know, if not from

531
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,241
Speaker 1: an over days from someone you know, say look enough,

532
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: you know I deserved it, to be fair. I was

533
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: that bad at that point in time, and I just

534
00:20:43,241 --> 00:20:45,640
Speaker 1: didn't care. I had so much pain, so much anger,

535
00:20:46,001 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like everyone else's fault.

536
00:20:48,721 --> 00:20:50,961
Speaker 3: You know, you're no going back to when your girlfriend died.

537
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,041
Speaker 2: Were you able to see it like Burrier or anything

538
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 2: like that, or you couldn't you didn't.

539
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 3: Have access to do it.

540
00:20:56,441 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: So what happened was I hit choked back from Adelaide

541
00:20:58,801 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: to go to her funeral. I got arrested in Golden

542
00:21:01,921 --> 00:21:04,321
Speaker 1: I was carrying nunchuckers, and back then nunchuckers is a

543
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,001
Speaker 1: section thirty, which is the same as carrying a firon,

544
00:21:07,441 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: And so I was arrested for section thirteen and I

545
00:21:09,721 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: was kept in the cells for two weeks, and I

546
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,481
Speaker 1: missed her funeral, Jane Neil. I never went to see

547
00:21:13,481 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: her grave until about three years ago. I just couldn't

548
00:21:16,201 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 1: do it. Really, I just couldn't go there. I just

549
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,041
Speaker 1: got like it made it real, you know, like going

550
00:21:21,041 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: and seeing it would have made it too real for me,

551
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: and I just couldn't get out there. But I went

552
00:21:24,521 --> 00:21:28,001
Speaker 1: there three years ago out of that film. It was painful,

553
00:21:28,201 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: but it was needed. Yeah, because I've carried her. She's

554
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,001
Speaker 1: the reason I wrote this story. You know, I wanted

555
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:36,721
Speaker 1: people to know that this isn't the meat story. This

556
00:21:36,761 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: is a wee story. There were a lot of little

557
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: kids running around the streets of the Cross in the

558
00:21:39,721 --> 00:21:43,321
Speaker 1: eighties being abused heroin addicts. Many of them died, and

559
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that her Bam band Italian,

560
00:21:46,281 --> 00:21:48,681
Speaker 1: all them kind of girls that I knew growing up

561
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,761
Speaker 1: were remembered, you know.

562
00:21:52,281 --> 00:21:53,721
Speaker 2: Gone back to when you were in Kings Trosty, you

563
00:21:53,721 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: were living there and you know all these guys were

564
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 2: you know, especially that time when you had your first

565
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,561
Speaker 2: drink and they gave you them red pills. What was

566
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,481
Speaker 2: gone through your thoughts and did you want to retaliate

567
00:22:02,561 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 2: quick or did you just let it go by your

568
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,041
Speaker 2: time to get them back for this or did you

569
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: run away?

570
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,481
Speaker 3: But like you know, because it's all happening again.

571
00:22:09,521 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: For you seem to go to places and you're just

572
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,441
Speaker 2: getting abused and abused and abused.

573
00:22:12,521 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 3: I would have lost my shit. Yeah.

574
00:22:14,201 --> 00:22:16,361
Speaker 1: The problem was, I'll be honest with you, I'd been

575
00:22:16,481 --> 00:22:18,721
Speaker 1: groomed my whole life. So it got to a point

576
00:22:18,761 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: where I've been taught my body was a commodity. That's

577
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,961
Speaker 1: just the truth of it. And I hate that's my truth,

578
00:22:23,001 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: but that's the truth.

579
00:22:23,961 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 3: You know, You're right.

580
00:22:25,281 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: I had revenge on my mind. The problem was that

581
00:22:27,441 --> 00:22:29,881
Speaker 1: the police back then, we was so fucking corrupt that

582
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: if you entered the police and spoke about this kind

583
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: of stuff to them, they were more likely to go

584
00:22:34,241 --> 00:22:37,041
Speaker 1: to the abuser, extort money off them, and then come

585
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,081
Speaker 1: back and lock you up. And I've seen, I've literally

586
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,761
Speaker 1: seen that happen. I did drive around once with freemates

587
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: looking for somebody armed, and I was set and I

588
00:22:46,721 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: was ready to go to jail for life. Luckily for me,

589
00:22:49,001 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: I never found him. You know, that was in Avalon.

590
00:22:51,041 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: I drove around Avalon for hours with these three mates,

591
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, like I did a snatch and grab off

592
00:22:57,961 --> 00:23:00,521
Speaker 1: a guy someone. I was the driver, but I wasn't

593
00:23:00,521 --> 00:23:02,081
Speaker 1: even supposed to be doing it. I stole look harf

594
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: for someone else to do a crime, and I'm the

595
00:23:03,961 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: driver and I'm him to get my money. You know,

596
00:23:06,201 --> 00:23:07,801
Speaker 1: you're going to do this cry where this guy is

597
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: coming from one place to another. They're going to grab

598
00:23:09,921 --> 00:23:11,401
Speaker 1: this money and then I'm going to get my kick

599
00:23:11,441 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: and they all go that way hours. They always got

600
00:23:14,201 --> 00:23:17,121
Speaker 1: an excuse, neil, Oh, there's time, there's someone there, there's something.

601
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: I grabbed this guy. Man, he wouldn't go of it.

602
00:23:21,921 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: I ended up breaking the strap, but as ida it.

603
00:23:23,961 --> 00:23:26,001
Speaker 1: He's like yelling at me. He's bigger than me too,

604
00:23:26,001 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: but I managed. I'm quicker than him, so I managed

605
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: to snap it. But getting the car drove off. I

606
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,641
Speaker 1: actually got extra coin out of that too.

607
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: How long were you? How long were you on the

608
00:23:35,441 --> 00:23:35,761
Speaker 3: giar for?

609
00:23:35,921 --> 00:23:35,961
Speaker 2: Like?

610
00:23:36,001 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: How long would the ta ket to get off it?

611
00:23:37,681 --> 00:23:39,281
Speaker 3: Thirty years? Wow? Yeah?

612
00:23:39,321 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: So I started using in nineteen eighty five and I

613
00:23:42,441 --> 00:23:44,441
Speaker 1: got clean in twenty ten.

614
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:45,921
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah.

615
00:23:46,001 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: So I went into rehab in two thousand and nine.

616
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: The reason I got clean was started to impact my family.

617
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:51,321
Speaker 3: You know.

618
00:23:51,441 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: Now I'm a dad, I'm responsible. I don't want to

619
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,281
Speaker 1: see history repeat. That's the one thing that I think

620
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:59,081
Speaker 1: is important in my story is that I make you know,

621
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: this stuff goes from family to family to family trauma addiction,

622
00:24:02,481 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, and I just don't want that to happen

623
00:24:03,921 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: in mine. Were you on it when you had your

624
00:24:05,961 --> 00:24:09,241
Speaker 1: first child? Were you still use on methadone? I wasn't using.

625
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: What actually happened was in nineteen ninety six I had

626
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,641
Speaker 1: to give evidence to the wood Draw Commission against two

627
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: abuses who I had locked up in jail. And in

628
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,641
Speaker 1: doing that, I had to go to Sydney every day.

629
00:24:18,761 --> 00:24:20,601
Speaker 1: And I started off by just going to court every

630
00:24:20,681 --> 00:24:23,041
Speaker 1: day and then I detour to the Cross and that's

631
00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:25,761
Speaker 1: when I picked up again in ninety six, you know.

632
00:24:25,961 --> 00:24:28,001
Speaker 3: And was that intimidating for you to go to the

633
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: Royal Commission? Was that tim It was?

634
00:24:29,801 --> 00:24:32,721
Speaker 1: And it was a letdown, bro because they sealed all

635
00:24:32,721 --> 00:24:34,801
Speaker 1: my files in both commissions. I went to the Royal

636
00:24:34,801 --> 00:24:37,721
Speaker 1: Commission institutional abuse as well, and the Royal Commission into

637
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,441
Speaker 1: the wood Draw Commission. It was intimidating.

638
00:24:40,681 --> 00:24:42,921
Speaker 3: Do you think they took you seriously at the start

639
00:24:42,921 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 3: when you went in?

640
00:24:43,561 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: No, When I gave my statement, I could see them

641
00:24:46,201 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: with their armsolder by this like's a fucking good story,

642
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: brocause it's a lot. My story is a lot. But

643
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: when they came back, they were almost ecstatic. I said,

644
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: we've been around the country. We've spoken to every single kid.

645
00:24:55,201 --> 00:24:56,721
Speaker 1: They've parrot of what you've said. They wanted me to

646
00:24:56,721 --> 00:24:59,521
Speaker 1: wear a wire. How about that, mate? They said to me,

647
00:24:59,561 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: we need you to put on a wire to go

648
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,561
Speaker 1: up to one of your abuses. So I'm not doing it, mate,

649
00:25:03,761 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: It says, there's not a chance in trying it. You know,

650
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,481
Speaker 1: who's got to wear a wire?

651
00:25:06,481 --> 00:25:06,641
Speaker 3: Mate?

652
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,801
Speaker 1: Even that's the way we're raised, right, And then he

653
00:25:08,801 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: comes back to me and he says something that actually

654
00:25:10,441 --> 00:25:13,961
Speaker 1: turned me. He said, you know, every abuser that abused

655
00:25:14,001 --> 00:25:16,921
Speaker 1: you will go on to abuse possibly another seventy two children,

656
00:25:17,201 --> 00:25:19,561
Speaker 1: he said, And if you don't speak up, are you

657
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,961
Speaker 1: going to continue to keep abusing children? And I went

658
00:25:22,001 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: home and I talked over with someone about it, and

659
00:25:24,281 --> 00:25:25,721
Speaker 1: I was like, I need to speak up.

660
00:25:26,001 --> 00:25:26,481
Speaker 3: So I did.

661
00:25:26,481 --> 00:25:28,321
Speaker 1: I had to put on a wire and meet up

662
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:31,041
Speaker 1: with this pedophile in Paramatta and I did date and

663
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,001
Speaker 1: then they gave me a dodgy phone, and you know,

664
00:25:33,001 --> 00:25:35,801
Speaker 1: I had to record all the stuff. So I ended

665
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,761
Speaker 1: up putting four of it in jail. I got one

666
00:25:38,281 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: Paul Chapman Jones, he got eighteen months. Then I've got

667
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: a guy named Ken Fogney, he got eighteen months. The

668
00:25:42,681 --> 00:25:44,481
Speaker 1: one with the wire was her named Grant Morris. He

669
00:25:44,561 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: got two years eight months. And then just recently I

670
00:25:46,721 --> 00:25:49,241
Speaker 1: had one extra dieter back from the Netherlands. His name

671
00:25:49,321 --> 00:25:51,641
Speaker 1: Simon Davies. He got ten years. He's the guy who

672
00:25:51,721 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: ran the refuge and abuse are still inside now Simon

673
00:25:55,961 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: Davies is and then he's going to be extra dided

674
00:25:57,921 --> 00:26:00,120
Speaker 1: back to the UK when he gets out. He's a

675
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,041
Speaker 1: fucking grab bro. I mean eighteen months. You know how

676
00:26:05,041 --> 00:26:07,561
Speaker 1: it was to do years going through the walkarounds and

677
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: all the shit you got to do getting caught. And

678
00:26:09,481 --> 00:26:12,241
Speaker 1: here the judge a one of them was connected for

679
00:26:12,321 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: twenty children. He got eighteen months twenty times to run concurrent,

680
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: So make that make sense. I got two years eight

681
00:26:19,201 --> 00:26:21,681
Speaker 1: months for an arm robbery I didn't do, and then

682
00:26:21,721 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: I went to jail like it's funny because I did

683
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,481
Speaker 1: all these crimes right that I actually did do. I

684
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,641
Speaker 1: never got caught for one, and then I get set

685
00:26:27,681 --> 00:26:29,561
Speaker 1: up by a King's Cross police for an armed robbery

686
00:26:29,561 --> 00:26:32,641
Speaker 1: I didn't do because I started talking, you know, and

687
00:26:32,961 --> 00:26:36,281
Speaker 1: they charged with extortion, demand of money, with ministers, assault robbery.

688
00:26:36,561 --> 00:26:38,721
Speaker 1: All of them dismissed, and then armed robbery. Couldn't beat

689
00:26:38,761 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: that one, and they got me for the arm robbery.

690
00:26:41,201 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: Wow. Has anyone like reached out to you from the

691
00:26:43,721 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: past from the.

692
00:26:45,281 --> 00:26:47,521
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the guy I robbed, he reached out to

693
00:26:47,521 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: me and said, hey, young and bra and I thought,

694
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: I know, here we go and he gave his no. Bro,

695
00:26:50,561 --> 00:26:52,041
Speaker 1: I was fair in love them or he said, I've

696
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:53,801
Speaker 1: changed my life around. And he said, I just love

697
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:54,441
Speaker 1: what you're doing.

698
00:26:54,481 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: Bro.

699
00:26:54,801 --> 00:26:56,521
Speaker 1: He said, you should be so proud of who you are.

700
00:26:56,801 --> 00:26:58,721
Speaker 1: I said, dance man, I said, I really appreciate that,

701
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: and I actually rang it. We had a conversation, you know,

702
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,841
Speaker 1: which is good because I was a piece of ship

703
00:27:03,921 --> 00:27:05,761
Speaker 1: doing that t him because he said to be he

704
00:27:05,801 --> 00:27:07,801
Speaker 1: got in trouble from his person, you know, like for

705
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,721
Speaker 1: doing that ship and that was my intention. And yeah,

706
00:27:10,721 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of people reach out to me, man,

707
00:27:12,481 --> 00:27:14,761
Speaker 1: like a lot younger people. A lot of people reach

708
00:27:14,801 --> 00:27:16,801
Speaker 1: out to me. I get hundreds of messages. You probably

709
00:27:16,801 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: do as well, you know, people sharing their journeys and

710
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,321
Speaker 1: stories with me, and they're like, the most common question is, hey, bro,

711
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,481
Speaker 1: do you remember.

712
00:27:23,921 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: Do you remember such and such?

713
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,601
Speaker 1: And I'm like, sometimes I do, and I'm like, I'm

714
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,601
Speaker 1: not going to say because they're ah, and I don't

715
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,201
Speaker 1: want to tell you that.

716
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: Have you ever have you been back and just on

717
00:27:31,721 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: the walk by yourself like I have. It's like what

718
00:27:34,921 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 2: you get in the army, you know what you have flashbacks? Yeah,

719
00:27:37,441 --> 00:27:39,961
Speaker 2: and that Sometimes I've just gone for a walk and

720
00:27:40,001 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: to the places that of things have happened to me

721
00:27:42,281 --> 00:27:42,721
Speaker 2: in the past.

722
00:27:42,721 --> 00:27:43,961
Speaker 3: Have you have you ever done that? Yeah?

723
00:27:44,001 --> 00:27:46,721
Speaker 1: I've done videos around the boys homes, Derek. I've done

724
00:27:46,761 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: a lot around the Cross. I do so the most

725
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,521
Speaker 1: commonplace I get recognized is King's Cross. When I walk

726
00:27:51,561 --> 00:27:55,041
Speaker 1: up the cross now they call me, hey, can I

727
00:27:55,041 --> 00:27:58,961
Speaker 1: get yeah, man, it's I struggled with it at first.

728
00:27:59,001 --> 00:28:01,201
Speaker 1: I actually do tours of the Cross. I take people

729
00:28:01,201 --> 00:28:03,041
Speaker 1: around and show them that have read my book. They

730
00:28:03,041 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: want to come with me and it's it's fantastic, But

731
00:28:05,721 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: I struggled with it at first. Some of the places

732
00:28:07,441 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: they go to, like the refuge. I don't know if

733
00:28:08,961 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: your name, but Channel sevent did a documentary on me

734
00:28:10,921 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: called the Rise in Paula King's Cross. It hasn't come

735
00:28:13,241 --> 00:28:15,241
Speaker 1: out yet, but the day we went to the refuge,

736
00:28:15,241 --> 00:28:18,001
Speaker 1: it was literally being ripped down and Channel seven were shattered.

737
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, man, I really wanted to get it.

738
00:28:19,681 --> 00:28:21,001
Speaker 1: And I said, but I've got hundred the fato of

739
00:28:21,001 --> 00:28:22,921
Speaker 1: the refuge. I said, this is actually a good thing.

740
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,201
Speaker 1: I said, you're talking about the Rise in Paula King's Cross.

741
00:28:25,321 --> 00:28:28,001
Speaker 1: This is actually good what it's about. This is the

742
00:28:28,041 --> 00:28:30,761
Speaker 1: fall of one of the most horrible, heinous places in

743
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,121
Speaker 1: King's christ. A lot of people used to blame the clubs, right,

744
00:28:34,721 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: That's not where it was at, man. It was basically

745
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: on the streets in the park, up the wall. That's

746
00:28:38,321 --> 00:28:40,841
Speaker 1: all the bad stuff. Were like, I mean, look before

747
00:28:41,161 --> 00:28:43,641
Speaker 1: John and all that stuff happened back then. Some of

748
00:28:43,641 --> 00:28:45,081
Speaker 1: the clubs had children, and I've got a lot of

749
00:28:45,081 --> 00:28:47,361
Speaker 1: friends who were young girls who were dying in these clubs.

750
00:28:47,361 --> 00:28:48,961
Speaker 1: You know, they were working and stripping at the age

751
00:28:48,961 --> 00:28:51,081
Speaker 1: of fourteen, fifteen and sixteen. One of the things I

752
00:28:51,121 --> 00:28:54,241
Speaker 1: respected about John was when he came forward, he actually

753
00:28:54,521 --> 00:28:56,441
Speaker 1: changed that. He said, I don't know a lot about

754
00:28:56,441 --> 00:28:58,121
Speaker 1: his story. I really don't, but I do know that,

755
00:28:58,481 --> 00:29:01,161
Speaker 1: but it no longer was allowing these young children to

756
00:29:01,201 --> 00:29:03,601
Speaker 1: be in these places of me abused, and that's something

757
00:29:03,721 --> 00:29:06,681
Speaker 1: I respect, you know, like we've got to protect our kids.

758
00:29:06,681 --> 00:29:06,841
Speaker 3: Man.

759
00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:08,841
Speaker 1: You know, they're not a fucking commodity for people to

760
00:29:08,881 --> 00:29:10,041
Speaker 1: ause and make money off.

761
00:29:10,641 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: When was the turning point for you that you just

762
00:29:12,481 --> 00:29:15,401
Speaker 2: you know, you say like you said, you mad your future,

763
00:29:15,601 --> 00:29:17,561
Speaker 2: your future wife, and I like that and everything changed.

764
00:29:17,961 --> 00:29:20,281
Speaker 3: But when did it change? When did you mentally change?

765
00:29:20,321 --> 00:29:23,601
Speaker 1: And that this is yeah, that's not been as long

766
00:29:23,641 --> 00:29:26,361
Speaker 1: as you think. So about fifteen years ago, I went

767
00:29:26,401 --> 00:29:28,681
Speaker 1: into a deep depression after all the court cases, I

768
00:29:28,761 --> 00:29:31,321
Speaker 1: separated from my wife. I ended up moving into the

769
00:29:31,321 --> 00:29:33,161
Speaker 1: Blue Mountains and for ten years, Bro, I just sat

770
00:29:33,201 --> 00:29:35,481
Speaker 1: on a lounge. I literally just watched TV every day,

771
00:29:35,561 --> 00:29:37,921
Speaker 1: getting takeaway food. My kids would come and visit me

772
00:29:37,961 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: at my home. You know, there was no leaving. And

773
00:29:41,241 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: I ended up meeting another guy online and went to

774
00:29:43,241 --> 00:29:45,241
Speaker 1: Melbourne to an event that he had and we sat

775
00:29:45,241 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: down with a group of influence one night and he goes, bro,

776
00:29:47,321 --> 00:29:49,081
Speaker 1: you've got a hell of a story, he said. You

777
00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:51,401
Speaker 1: need to share your story, bro, he said, And I

778
00:29:51,441 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: started to realize that the more I shared my story,

779
00:29:53,521 --> 00:29:54,361
Speaker 1: the more it lost its.

780
00:29:54,281 --> 00:29:54,841
Speaker 3: Power over me.

781
00:29:55,121 --> 00:29:56,681
Speaker 1: Because what we can do is we can become so

782
00:29:56,881 --> 00:29:59,041
Speaker 1: consumed to the anger of what's happened that we become

783
00:29:59,081 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: a victim. And that's what I was. I was literally

784
00:30:01,441 --> 00:30:04,561
Speaker 1: a walking victim and wore it like a shield, like

785
00:30:04,601 --> 00:30:07,321
Speaker 1: a badge even, you know, And I started to realize, man,

786
00:30:07,361 --> 00:30:09,721
Speaker 1: the only person who can change me is me Jack.

787
00:30:09,761 --> 00:30:12,041
Speaker 3: And that affected that your the way you and your

788
00:30:12,041 --> 00:30:13,241
Speaker 3: partner were together.

789
00:30:13,281 --> 00:30:16,641
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, you know, like I was always suspicious, you know,

790
00:30:16,721 --> 00:30:19,121
Speaker 1: like I mean, she shit, I was blessed eighteen years together,

791
00:30:19,161 --> 00:30:21,281
Speaker 1: the most beautiful woman. But when we went to rehab,

792
00:30:21,321 --> 00:30:23,081
Speaker 1: and we went to rehab together, it was like we

793
00:30:23,081 --> 00:30:25,561
Speaker 1: were two different people. Our whole relationship had been based

794
00:30:25,601 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: around addiction, you know, when we got clean, you know,

795
00:30:28,161 --> 00:30:30,481
Speaker 1: and we had we had responsibilities. Now we've got other

796
00:30:30,481 --> 00:30:32,561
Speaker 1: people who depend on us to be parents, you know.

797
00:30:32,841 --> 00:30:34,921
Speaker 1: And she's still my best mate to this day, thankfully.

798
00:30:35,321 --> 00:30:37,961
Speaker 1: But yeah, absolutely, you know, if I if I met

799
00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: her the way I am now, it would be a

800
00:30:39,721 --> 00:30:42,081
Speaker 1: whole different thing. You know, I would see the value

801
00:30:42,081 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: in what I had. Back then, I was a victim.

802
00:30:44,441 --> 00:30:47,721
Speaker 1: Everything was unfair, you know, and I think once we start,

803
00:30:47,841 --> 00:30:50,361
Speaker 1: a lot of people walk around allowing their past to

804
00:30:50,401 --> 00:30:53,521
Speaker 1: destroy their future because they become they become their own

805
00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:56,201
Speaker 1: worst abuser. You know, they go through all this stuff

806
00:30:56,201 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: and it's like I used to say to people, if

807
00:30:57,481 --> 00:30:59,441
Speaker 1: you've been through what I've been through, YouTube up too,

808
00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:01,681
Speaker 1: and like that's not a reason, but that's an excuse.

809
00:31:01,721 --> 00:31:04,081
Speaker 3: You know, ten years is a long time has been

810
00:31:04,081 --> 00:31:05,321
Speaker 3: locked up and like yourself, and.

811
00:31:05,321 --> 00:31:09,401
Speaker 1: Then I was consumed and I may now it's changed.

812
00:31:09,401 --> 00:31:11,401
Speaker 1: I'm off all I'm clean, as you know, I'm clean.

813
00:31:11,441 --> 00:31:13,841
Speaker 1: I train every day. I run a business called the

814
00:31:13,921 --> 00:31:15,361
Speaker 1: leg Up Project, you know, going around.

815
00:31:15,361 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: I'm an author.

816
00:31:16,041 --> 00:31:19,281
Speaker 1: I've done multitude of podcasts and you know, I've been

817
00:31:19,321 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: all out Australia now doing different events. It's incredible what's happening.

818
00:31:23,481 --> 00:31:25,681
Speaker 1: But so many people reach out to me and they say,

819
00:31:25,681 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: please keep going brow you inspire me. You know if

820
00:31:27,481 --> 00:31:29,401
Speaker 1: I've had people message me and say I've got clean

821
00:31:29,441 --> 00:31:31,641
Speaker 1: because of you. One lady messaged me along I said,

822
00:31:31,641 --> 00:31:33,841
Speaker 1: I've got my child back because of you, Glenn. She said,

823
00:31:33,841 --> 00:31:35,841
Speaker 1: I posted a big thing about being a victim. I said,

824
00:31:35,881 --> 00:31:37,801
Speaker 1: get off the fucking land, stopped being a fucking victim.

825
00:31:37,841 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: And she said, I watched the video, she said, I

826
00:31:39,281 --> 00:31:41,121
Speaker 1: got angry at you. She said, who the fuck are you?

827
00:31:41,281 --> 00:31:42,801
Speaker 1: She said, I watched it again and again and again,

828
00:31:42,841 --> 00:31:44,601
Speaker 1: and she said, fuck. Can I realize you were right?

829
00:31:44,841 --> 00:31:46,881
Speaker 1: What you were saying was actually right? That you know,

830
00:31:47,241 --> 00:31:49,481
Speaker 1: she was a victim to her own self and she

831
00:31:49,641 --> 00:31:52,001
Speaker 1: lost a child and everything was unfair. And I said,

832
00:31:52,001 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: how about looking at you know what your part in

833
00:31:54,281 --> 00:31:54,601
Speaker 1: this is.

834
00:31:54,601 --> 00:31:55,881
Speaker 3: What did you do? You know?

835
00:31:55,921 --> 00:31:58,081
Speaker 1: And she said, yeah, I was fuck And she said

836
00:31:58,081 --> 00:32:00,161
Speaker 1: now she's got a child back, you know, And those

837
00:32:00,201 --> 00:32:03,641
Speaker 1: things warm my heart. Any regrets in life, oh lots.

838
00:32:03,681 --> 00:32:05,961
Speaker 1: But I regret not going and forgive you my brother.

839
00:32:06,841 --> 00:32:11,121
Speaker 1: I regret leaving my girlfriend alone in Hing's cross going

840
00:32:11,161 --> 00:32:11,721
Speaker 1: to Adelaide.

841
00:32:12,121 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: Do you think that was? Do you think that was?

842
00:32:14,921 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: If you've never gone to Adelaide, things would have been different?

843
00:32:17,321 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: You think that?

844
00:32:18,601 --> 00:32:20,881
Speaker 3: Probably not? No, Yeah, I don't know.

845
00:32:21,081 --> 00:32:24,001
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she'd started using heroin and I hadn't,

846
00:32:24,161 --> 00:32:25,681
Speaker 1: you know, And that was part of the reason why

847
00:32:25,681 --> 00:32:28,241
Speaker 1: I we'd separate. It was I said, what the fuck

848
00:32:28,241 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: are you doing, you know, putting needles in your arm?

849
00:32:29,961 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: I don't want that shuit you know a breakdownser but

850
00:32:32,281 --> 00:32:34,121
Speaker 1: I think it's also the reason why I started using.

851
00:32:34,161 --> 00:32:36,601
Speaker 1: I wanted to understand it and it caught me, you know,

852
00:32:36,881 --> 00:32:39,121
Speaker 1: and caught me quick. I think those are the two

853
00:32:39,121 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: biggest regrets I think. Yeah, I regret parts with my

854
00:32:42,241 --> 00:32:44,641
Speaker 1: wife as well and my children. You know, I wish

855
00:32:44,721 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: that I had this knowledge at the start.

856
00:32:47,081 --> 00:32:49,161
Speaker 2: We also we all say that, bro, I would said

857
00:32:49,161 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: that same all the time. I know now what I

858
00:32:51,281 --> 00:32:53,681
Speaker 2: did back then, I'll be a different person absolutely, you

859
00:32:53,681 --> 00:32:55,561
Speaker 2: know what I mean. You only know what you know

860
00:32:55,841 --> 00:32:58,321
Speaker 2: that when you do know do better. I live and

861
00:32:58,401 --> 00:33:00,121
Speaker 2: learn absolutely.

862
00:33:00,361 --> 00:33:02,281
Speaker 3: So what would you in one word, how would you

863
00:33:02,321 --> 00:33:03,841
Speaker 3: describe yourself? Loyal?

864
00:33:04,441 --> 00:33:07,721
Speaker 1: Wowkod Yeah, very loyal person view. If I'm a friend

865
00:33:07,761 --> 00:33:10,281
Speaker 1: with someone, I'll die for you. And that's that's fairing

866
00:33:10,361 --> 00:33:13,121
Speaker 1: from manding. I'm very very loyal, but I demand it too,

867
00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:15,921
Speaker 1: you know. That would be the word I.

868
00:33:15,801 --> 00:33:16,241
Speaker 3: Want to say.

869
00:33:16,241 --> 00:33:18,481
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on, mate, like that is like

870
00:33:18,641 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: a full on like life and journey, you know what

871
00:33:21,441 --> 00:33:23,801
Speaker 2: I mean, And I praise you for coming through the

872
00:33:23,881 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: whole that you come through and now to what you

873
00:33:26,521 --> 00:33:27,001
Speaker 2: are today.

874
00:33:27,041 --> 00:33:29,881
Speaker 3: It's it's very inspiring me. I appreciate it. And I

875
00:33:29,881 --> 00:33:32,441
Speaker 3: wish you all the best in the future. Thanks, thanks

876
00:33:32,001 --> 00:33:32,041
Speaker 3: a