1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: With sixteen years in the military and more than twenty 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: years in leadership. There are few people who boast a 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: depth of experience like Tim Curtis. From high risk missions 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: as part of the Australian Special Forces Service Regiment to 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: taking the lead in planning Afghanistan's first parliamentary elections in 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: seventeen years, From designing and implementing the counter terrorists response 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: for the Sydney two thousand Olympic Games to running a 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: multi million dollar international business. It seems there isn't much 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: Tim can't do now he's sharing his knowledge and experience. 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm at Middleton and this is headgame today, Tim Curtis 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: on his lessons from some of the harshest conflict zones 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: and how those lessons are helping the next generation build 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: their resilience. Tim, how are you, buddy? 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: Going well? Thanks very much for having me. Absolutely delighted 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: to be here. 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, Matte. You're good friends with someone I know, 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: mister Dan Pronk. 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: That is true, co author, business partner, friend, all of 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: the above for better for words, for Richard, for Borio. 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: I love that mate, I love that He's a great guy. 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: Obviously sas Australia he was a great part of that, 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: of that course and of that show. And you say 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: co author as well, that's right. You've got The Resilient Shield, 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: which you co authored with mister Pronk, and you've got 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: a new book out which is about children. Right, it's 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: what's it. 27 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: Called Building Resilient Kids? 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: There you go, building resilient kids. So it's sort of like, 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: I love that because you've done the Resilient Shield. And yeah, 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: I suppose nowadays, especially nowadays, the importance of having a resilient, 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: a resilient mindset growing up, especially with children, what they 32 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: have have to deal with nowadays. Is it for kids 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: to read or was it for adults to read? 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, it's for the village of adults. It 35 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: recognizes that kids do need variety in their village. That 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: mum and dad, care educator are really important, but so 37 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: too is the softball coach, the call aren't the quirky 38 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: you uncle and other mentors. It recognizes that by agent stage, 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: our kids will turn to others for guidance, support, leadership, care, 40 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: and if we don't introduce them to a village when 41 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: they're younger, then they'll seek alternatives, and those alternatives the 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: mentors might not be constructive, might not be beneficial to them. 43 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 2: So yeah, incredibly important that the village of experts read 44 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: this so they can make a contribution to resilient kids. 45 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: Amazing man, And you weren't always an author. You started 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: off in the military, and we go back to your 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: SAS days, the Special Air Service Regiment in Australia. You 48 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: grew up in a military family, didn't you. So I 49 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: suppose was it just the norm? 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: Were you just. 51 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: Surrounded by military individuals and that military lifestyle and it 52 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: just naturally took you in that direction. What was it 53 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: like growing up for you? 54 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, so my father spent thirty five years in uniform, 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: also in the ESAs regiment. He was not just the 56 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: commanding officer of the Australian SAS but also Commander Special Forces. 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: Got out as a one star general, and yeah, growing 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: up for us was on military basis. We lived actually 59 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: for several years inside the SAS regiment and that formative 60 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: experience was pretty profound, you know. And at the time, 61 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: you know, the Australian SAS was raising the canterterrorism capability. 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: It was just after Prince's Gate in the UK and 63 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: our house was regularly being used as a stronghold for 64 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: mock terrorists, for the capability to assault, to refine the 65 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: things that they were doing. So definitely that all had 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: a part to play. But Dad never really put pressure 67 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: on me one way or the other. But invariably, yep, 68 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: I was dressing up in greens and camouflage uniforms. But 69 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: I went through maybe my secondary schooling thinking perhaps I'll 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: be a teacher, went through a face where I thought 71 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 2: I'd be a lawyer. But as a transpired, Yeah, I 72 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: sought and received a scholarship to go to the Defense 73 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: Force Academy, which then saw me for sixteen years in uniform, 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: with a chunk at that time serving in the Special 75 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: Forces community, including the essays. 76 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: And was it sort of expected? You say that your 77 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: father didn't push it on you, which is great because 78 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: you know, very much like myself. You know, my children 79 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: always ask about the military. You know, I want to 80 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: join up, and I'm just like, right, okay, just think 81 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: of other options. You know, there's you know, I want 82 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: them to be them at the end of the day. 83 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: So that's important. But when you did take the leap 84 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: of faith and sign up, how did that look? And 85 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: being free engulfed in it, you know growing up, did 86 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: that serve you well? 87 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: Well, the advantage, I think is a disadvantage, And maybe 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: not in the initial time in my military career, but 89 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: when I came to do essays selection course, everyone knew 90 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 2: my dad. Every instructor had served with Dad. There was 91 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: no one that didn't know him. And I'm not saying 92 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: that that was advantageous or disadvantageous, but it certainly brought. 93 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: Up, Yes, a double edged sword, isn't it Exactly? 94 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: There was stressors involved in people who would naturally make 95 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: comparisons that perhaps were looking at things in me that 96 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: they were looking for in Dad, or trying to work 97 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: out how was I different for better and also for worse. 98 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: And I did feel that pressure, But you know, to 99 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: your earlier point, I just wanted to be the best 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: version of me. My interest in going to serve in 101 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 2: the SAS was it was an organization that I always admired, 102 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 2: that I thought would stretch me both mentally, physically, psychologically 103 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: socially in a range of different areas of resilience. And 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: it was the ultimate challenge. And so it was less 105 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: about impressing Mum and Dad Dad specifically, and it was 106 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: more about me training for and attempting to be the 107 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 2: best version of me. And yeah, sure, on the other side, 108 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: when I finally did get selected and I called Dad, 109 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: I could hear the relief in his voice. Sure, and 110 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: interestingly and surprisingly you know this too well. There was 111 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: all this back channel feed from those people that were 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: instructing on the course to Dad letting him know how 113 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: it was all progressing. So he had a bit of 114 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: an optic on how things were tracking. I now know 115 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: that from the instructors that were on the course. But yeah, 116 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: in all of my life, he only ever wanted me 117 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: to put your words back to you and to be 118 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: the best version of myself. And that was just one thing, 119 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: one part of my life that he loved, supported cad 120 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: for me no matter what I did, even the dumb 121 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: things I did. 122 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, you know, being the best version 123 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: of yourself, that internal purpose because ultimately, you know, you're 124 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,679 Speaker 1: always learning, always growing, and always becoming a better version 125 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: of yourself. Never quite get it, never being that the 126 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: perfect product, right because that doesn't exist, which. 127 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: You don't think, do you. Yeah, you constantly want the 128 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: struggle and you know, to coin some work by Paul 129 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: Bloom out of the us. On the other side of 130 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: struggle is happiness. On the other side of this that discomfort. 131 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: Disturbance's growth and if you become comfortable in life, if 132 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: you're not seeking discomfort, if the struggle isn't present, then 133 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: it's highly unlikely you'll have the enduring forms of happiness. 134 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: That's the reason why you and I like being in 135 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: the mountains. It's a different form of struggle to overcome, 136 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: and it's maybe less about the actual summits. And I'm 137 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: talking about that in a metaphoric sense, whether it's academic 138 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: struggle or physical struggle. Maybe it's about the journey that 139 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: enables you to get to the point to do the 140 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: exam or some at the mountain. You know, if we 141 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: don't have struggle in our life, we know we'll not 142 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: realize true happiness. And that's very much true for our kids. 143 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: We love them and support them so much, we can 144 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: disable the struggle, but we want to have the struggle 145 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: in our kids' life, and so skilding resilient kids. I 146 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: talk to the importance of failure for all humans, but 147 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: certainly for our little ones. We've got to allow them 148 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: the space to fail. And every expert I spoke to 149 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: on this, I maybe ask them one final question, what 150 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: are we doing wrong? And they all came back with 151 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: a variation of that we're not allowing our kids to 152 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: fail enough. Yeah. 153 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: I love that. And metaphorically, I always say, you know, 154 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: you should give your children enough rope to trip up 155 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: on obviously never to hate themselves, because we've been there 156 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: a role as parents, as mentors, as teachers, as role models, 157 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. You know, failure, you know is 158 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: such a dirty word out there, but you know, failure 159 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: I always say to people, are failed up to now 160 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: in my life, and I'm going to fail until the 161 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: day I die. And guess what, So are you learn 162 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: to embrace it, learn to you know, flip that into 163 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: a positive, that word into a positive where failure is 164 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: valuable life lessons, valuable, experience is valuable, you know, ways 165 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: of realizing what you're capable of. Because when you fail 166 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: and actually you get back up and you bounce back, 167 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: you start to realize what you're capable of. Then you 168 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: start to have that can do attitude. Then self relief 169 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: kicks in the back end, and it's through that struggle 170 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: of overcoming those struggles that you actually realize that that 171 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: what you're capable of, and you actually realize identifies where 172 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: your potentials or where your potential lie. 173 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And that's a beautiful way of looking at it. 174 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: You know, if we can enable two things for ourselves 175 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: and our kids, it would be have them think about 176 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: failure as an opportunity to learn. And the most successful 177 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: people on the planet may be the happiest, maybe the wealthiest, 178 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 2: depending on how you want to apply the metric of success, 179 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: it's more than likely they got there because they just 180 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: failed more than you and I and realize the lessons learned, 181 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: the lessons, made the adaptation and got better. And so 182 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: when we think about this in our own lives and 183 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: in the lives of our kids, yeah, sure you can win, 184 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: but don't think about losing. It's winning or learning. They're 185 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: the two key parts. And perhaps a little way to 186 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: think about this for the parents that can't let their 187 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: kids fail or won't be like the lifeguard down the beach. Now, 188 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: the role of the lifeguard isn't to prevent the swimming, 189 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 2: it's to prevent the drowning. It's to your point, you're 190 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: allowing the latitude for your kids to make errors that 191 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 2: aren't life threatening your life ending of course we want 192 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: to ring fence anything that's super dangerous. But on the 193 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: other side of interacting with risk built competence, physical competence, 194 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: emotional competence, social competence. So allow them to play on 195 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: the long monkey bars, to go and get bold, first blimb, 196 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: tricky climb a tree, whatever it happens to be. Allow 197 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: them to interact with the struggle, because if you really 198 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: want them to mitigate risks, they have to be exposed 199 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 2: to those risks, to the challenges, to the adversity. And 200 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: the experts will tell you that the most resilient kids 201 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 2: on the planet grow up to being resilient adults because 202 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: they have a moderate amount of stress in their life, 203 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 2: not too little stress. We're not removing all the stress 204 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: that leads to negative life outcomes. Clearly, not too much 205 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: stress and trauma, but a moderate amount. And maybe circling 206 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: right back to where we started this, with social media 207 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: and the other contemporary pressures adults to some extent, we're 208 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: to black we're enabling some of these things to take 209 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: hold of our kids. And I'm not just talking devices 210 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: and screens, but not allowing them to roam the neighborhood, 211 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: defie the kids to learn problem solve, not get selected 212 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: for the football side, over come that with a bit 213 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: of emotional regulation, get better at that skill. Were try 214 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: and cocoon them into wanting everyone to get the blue ribbon, 215 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: the trophy, or the merit certificate. It's an error. And 216 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: this isn't my opinion. This is the opinion of the 217 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: absolute experts, those with true wisdom that I interviewed for 218 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: this book. 219 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: I want to go back to your military career because 220 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: this made me laugh, mate, when you said you were 221 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: convinced that your service started through a clerical error. 222 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: I muddled through school and I was an average student, 223 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: but very average, and I'm surprised that I got the 224 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: marks to get into this Trained Defense Force academy. But 225 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: even when I got there, this is the least impressive 226 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: academic record you've ever heard. Sixteen straight passes, nothing above 227 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 2: sixty percent. In fact, I got some forty nine percent 228 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 2: concer passes. Like I was nothing impressive. But that said, 229 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: when I found something that I was truly passionate about, 230 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 2: then I switched my attention to be focused on that 231 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: thing and the determination. In many ways, what the military 232 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 2: does really well as you know, is it builds physical competence. 233 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: But in building physical competence, the mind follows. And so therefore, 234 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: if you get more active, get more physical, get stronger, 235 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: get healthier in your body, it also starts conditioning the mind. 236 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: So yet I was average until I turned my attention 237 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: to the things that I was passionate about, you know, 238 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: which was firstly serving in the light infantry, and then 239 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 2: beyond that. Yet I want to be in this thing 240 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: called the essays. 241 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: And when you were finally bad, as you mentioned, the moment, 242 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: you know, talking to your father, and your father has 243 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: this oooh sigh of relief and obviously super proud. It 244 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: really starts there, doesn't it. You know, the operations ramp up, 245 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: but just the lessons learned from it. How did you 246 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: take the workload and the pressure of obviously coming from 247 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: a background where your father was so well known in 248 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 1: the organization, now you are an sas operata, how was 249 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: the pressure and how did you cope with it? And 250 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: how did you manage it moving forward? 251 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: You just have to deliver better to everyone's expectations. So 252 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: I think it forced me to be crisper, to be cleaner, 253 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: to be smarter, to be fitter to shoot straighter. I mean, 254 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: any of those subtactical metrics really matter, and as you know, 255 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: sometimes they're the ones that do matter at a pound 256 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: for pound basis. But then also I was super widely 257 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: read so and I continue to be that. I was 258 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: always immersed in some theory, whether it's philosophy or tactical, 259 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: whether it's military history or future is thinking. And I 260 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: think they kind of serve you well if you maybe 261 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: worry less about what other people think, the opinion they have, 262 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: and just try and I come back to the same line, 263 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: be the best version of you. And for me in 264 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: that unit, it was super addictive, like there was no 265 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: one that didn't want to be there. And you know, 266 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: it's kind of the concept of this daily renewalb contract 267 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: was a thing that it was easier to get selected 268 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: and receive the beret to be bad. It was harder 269 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: to stay in the unit that every day really matted 270 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: how you performed on a day to day basis and 271 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: out of our basis really matted. And when you kind 272 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: of come back to the group of inspirational guys and 273 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: girls in these special forces units, it's just addictive. It's 274 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: socially addictive, professionally addictive. It can consume you on a 275 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: quite a healthy side, but there's certainly a negative part 276 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: to that. And you know, for those that don't understand 277 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: too much about special Forces, maybe you haven't read much 278 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: or seeing things. If you can imagine a mission that 279 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: has no precedent, what type of human do you pick 280 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: for this thing that has never been done before? Maybe 281 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: strategically politicians are looking at it saying it can't be 282 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: done well. Missions without precedence are the domain of special 283 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: forces units, and it takes a certain type of human, 284 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: all types of humans, big one, skinny ones for that 285 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: one's you know, fit ones, less fit ones, thinkers the 286 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: physical part in order to create mission success in those environments. 287 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: And I just loved it. It was an incredible part 288 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: of my life, one that I would have stayed in 289 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: for i could. 290 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: And you spoke about futuristic thinking, you know, the thinking 291 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: soldier ultimately, you know when you cross over to those levels, 292 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: to those boundaries, and you said slightly that there has 293 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: got as negatives to that in your eyes, what are 294 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: those negatives? I don't want to dive into the names. 295 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: I want to stay super positive. But it was very 296 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: interested that you said that, because I want to see 297 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: if they're aligned with mine. 298 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: Well, your mask other things in order to stay in 299 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: the fight, in order to stay with your patrol, your team, 300 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 2: true your squadron, you will not do things that actually 301 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: are in your best interests. So physically, this is easy 302 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: to understand that you're carrying an injury, you continue to 303 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: carry it. You might mask it with pain relief in 304 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: order to stay out there in order to be part 305 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: of this. Psychologically, you just don't follow that pathway because 306 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: there might be concerns that people will say, all right, 307 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: it's time for you to take a break to decompress. 308 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: You need some rest and recuperation, And I think that 309 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: masking the negativity is kind of the downside of it. Interestingly, 310 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: you know, when you think about the life of someone 311 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: like Michael Jordan, he traveled with his psychologists not because 312 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: he had trauma, but because he needed a psychological tune up. 313 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: And in my old unit, the psychologists used to be 314 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: at the regimental aid posts. They are at the medical center, 315 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 2: and so there was a connotation associated with going to 316 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: the medical center physically unwell and psychologically unwell. And it 317 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 2: wasn't until we we not me, but a generation half 318 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 2: generation after me decided, actually, under the leadership of my 319 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 2: co author Ben Pronk, let's move the psychologists out of 320 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: the medical center and into the high performance center. And 321 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: that changed the view on thing. So we're no longer 322 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: needing to mask this, but we're recognizing that physically you 323 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: can be optimized, you can be performing at your best, 324 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: and doctors and physios and others are good creator doing that, 325 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 2: but so are psychologist to make sure that you're thinking 326 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: at your cognitive best. 327 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what I remember? It was two 328 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, two and nine, we had the GB team, 329 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, the athletes. We had their psychologists, psychology team 330 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: come down along with their physios and they sat down 331 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: with and they were like, well, where's your where's your 332 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: you know, your physio, where's your your psychology, where's your 333 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: high performance sort of hub that you go see. You know, 334 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: you guys, we've looked at your selection process. You have 335 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: to operate an athlete plus standard of fitness for six 336 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: months non stop, and all we see is a medical center. 337 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: You know that it is like the reactive side to 338 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, if anything goes wrong, where's the proactive side 339 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: of keeping your mind sharp of we said it doesn't exist, 340 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: and they were shocked to the core. They went back 341 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: and done a huge report about it. They were like, 342 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, these guys are a proper you know, all 343 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: round athletes. You know the versatility from you know, this 344 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: isn't a case of right you're sticking to a track. 345 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: You know, we were jack of all trades when it 346 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: came to athleticism and we had nothing at our disposal. 347 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: When you think about athletes compared to special Forces operator, 348 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 2: as an athlete has a discipline. You know, they run 349 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: the marathon, they're an endurance athlete, they're a speed athlete, 350 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: they're a power league strength athlete. But actually, in special 351 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: Forces units, you've got to be everything you know. On 352 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: canterterrorism special recovery operations, for example, we mapped programs to 353 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: work out, well, what's the training regime of a canaterrism 354 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: special recovery operator And it was akin to a four 355 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: hundred meter rum that power and explosiveness over a relatively 356 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 2: short distance and period of time to give you the 357 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: strength but also the flexibility to get through the window, 358 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: assault the building. But then again you come off that 359 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: and you've got to spend twenty one days, twenty eight 360 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: days patrolling with the pack on the back, it requires it. 361 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: In the field, it requires a completely different form of 362 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: endurance and so therefore we needed our operators to be 363 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 2: able to move physically with the domain in which they 364 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 2: are operating. It sometimes has happened at really short notice. 365 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: So to your point, they had to be generalists. They 366 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: had to cross a whole heap of different physical capabilities 367 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: but also professional capabilities. They need to be able to 368 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: breach and rope and shoot with all sorts of weapons. 369 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: They had to be able to call in fire support, 370 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: a parachute, and the list goes on. You know it, 371 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: there's probably one hundred things on that list, And it's 372 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: the versatility of the human that we worked with in 373 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: those Special Forces units to then undertake missions with our 374 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: precedence without a second thought, mind you, And remember this 375 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 2: is a high consequence gain. It isn't like you didn't 376 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: win the four hundred. There is a downside, and that 377 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 2: downside as whilst of life, mem eyesight, psychological health. So 378 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: we had to be competent in all these different areas. 379 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: And I think that's the inspiring part about the unit 380 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: is they could these operators maintain excellence, even the elite masters, 381 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: across a range of different things. 382 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: So was that one of your jobs? Was it tim 383 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: to come up with these training programs to cut with 384 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: these structures because we sort of have a one dimensional 385 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: training program of just get on with it. You know, 386 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: you've volunteered for this service, you expected to do this, 387 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: and you know, and it's like, well that actually wow. 388 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: You know, when you look at it from a sports 389 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: science perspective or from an athlete, like you said, you 390 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: can tata those programs accordingly, can't you? 391 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: You can? You know, most sports scientists would look at 392 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: this from a nutrition perspective, or a strength perspective, or 393 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: a power outport or endurance and just say, this is 394 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: freaking nuts what you have to do to deliver across 395 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: all of these different mission profiles. It's just crazy. You 396 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: can't possibly get a human to do it. Well, there 397 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: are humans in these units. That's exactly what they do 398 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: every single day. And I guess I had the benefit 399 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: post nine to eleven. In two thousand and one, I 400 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: was in Sierily owned working at the tail end of 401 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: the Civil War, and then two thousand and nine to 402 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: eleven happens we decide in Australia that we need a 403 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: second counter terrorism capability and I was given the job 404 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: to raise the East Coast counterterrorism capability and actually I 405 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: got a lot of latitude in that role. One of 406 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 2: the cool things was I could rethink about all the 407 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: things that I'd seen that maybe did need a bit 408 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: of polish, whether it was equipment or skills or mindset 409 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: or the way that we trained. Because we had a 410 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 2: very imposing timeframe against that capability, which meant that we 411 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: had no time to waste. I needed to take a 412 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: person that couldn't even spell counterterrorism and have them ready 413 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: to go in six months. You know, that was the 414 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 2: political imperative, and it meant that we had to innovate. 415 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 2: We had to look at a capability that had been 416 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 2: alive for twenty years across in the SAS regiment and 417 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: then try and get all of the great stuff from 418 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: that with no nonsense to deliver a capability in six months. 419 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: And so yeah, that forced me and the inspirational people 420 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: I worked with in raising that capability to think about, well, 421 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: how do we just do this in the most effective 422 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 2: and efficient way, And one of those was through the 423 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: metric of just the physicality of that job needed people 424 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: to be not just ready to go, but to be 425 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: able to endure the pain, the suffering, the repetition, you know, 426 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 2: the rope climb after rope climb, the latter climb after 427 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: ladder cline, the body armor session after body armor session, 428 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 2: you know, you know, the rest in order to not 429 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 2: just deliver something that was acceptable, but something that was 430 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: best in class, you know, that was hopefully as good 431 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 2: in the world as you could see it in six months. 432 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: And so that was that was kind of reshaped the 433 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 2: way I thought about special Forces capability down that one 434 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: niche and I reinforced that there are many things that 435 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: special Forces units do. This was just one mission profile, 436 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 2: and I had the benefit of styling things specific to 437 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 2: that mission profile. 438 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, having lived the hectic and chaotic life of a 439 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: Special Forces operator with you know, time sensitive missions, you know, 440 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: being on sort of global roles and then you know 441 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: international roles, national roles, et cetera, et cetera. How hard 442 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: is it to to implement something like that, tim and 443 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: not I need to implement it, but to to actually 444 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: have it as a constant. Because I think a few 445 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: initiatives were started, but then all of a sudden, you 446 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: get called away on a mission, you come back, it 447 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 1: goes up in the air. You go back to your 448 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: old routines and it's like, ah, you know this new 449 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: stuff you sort of you know, want to push it 450 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: to one side. You know, we've we've we've served us well, 451 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, just getting on with things and shutting the 452 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: hell up and put up and shut up. You know 453 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: how hard was it to actually put those things in place? 454 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: Not I need to put them in place I supposed 455 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: to him, but to keep them as part of a 456 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: new structure and new mindset moving forward. 457 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 2: If we embrace that, or if we recognize that the 458 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: environments that we operated in a complex where it isn't predictable, 459 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: that nothing's linear, it doesn't come to your thing one, 460 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: thing two, then thing three, that it's not sort of repeatable. 461 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: If we use that thing on different mission profile, it's 462 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 2: guaranteed for success here. It creates this necessity to be versatile, agile, 463 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: to be adaptive, and I think that's generally what special 464 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: forces do really well. It breeds flexibility, agility, and adaptability, 465 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: and that's kind of important in that Missions with precedence 466 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: high consequence game because what we have to do is 467 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: empower the strategic corporal. This kind of sounds like a 468 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: bit of an oxymoron, perhaps, but you know, the strategic 469 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: corporal can be four thousand kilometers away from their boss 470 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: and a small decision they make can have profound international 471 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: consequences that it can create an international incident. And so 472 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 2: this isn't just about ensuring that they're good at shooting 473 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: straight or roping well, or swimming well or diving that well. 474 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: This is about their decision making and a lot of that. 475 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: When it comes to strategic corporals, we've got to embrace 476 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 2: this concept of trust. And in order to do that, 477 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: what's special forces units do is they empower this leader 478 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: of leader models. And interestingly, in a lot of the 479 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: work we're doing, corporates don't do it. So they try 480 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: and hold this organization chart structure where that person's the 481 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: boss and these people report to that person, whereas in 482 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 2: special forces units they're so insubordinate. Because we want that 483 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 2: leader of leader models, we actually ritualize that the centers, 484 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 2: you know, and we want people to question, why are 485 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 2: we doing it this way? There's a better way to 486 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 2: do it. Listen to this for an idea and in 487 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: empowering the leader of leaders, we're ensuring that no one 488 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 2: has this methodism. Complex adaptive system scientists will tell you, 489 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 2: if you're so sure that your thing's going to succeed, 490 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 2: you've probably got it wrong. And how would you know 491 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: you were wrong about it? That's kind of a key question, 492 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: And so you know, we want them to be competent. 493 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 2: We want them to have clarity in what they're doing, 494 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: to understand therategic intent because there are profound strategic consequences. 495 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 2: But we don't want them to fall into this routine 496 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: that we've done this same thing for twenty years, it's 497 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: going to work again because the guarantees are not there 498 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: in complex environments. In fact, nearly the other way around, 499 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: you're guaranteed that that will fail. And so we want 500 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: our team members at whatever level in this largely rankless 501 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: environment to question, even the person's only been there for 502 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 2: five minutes straight off the reinforcement cycle, wanted to question 503 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 2: the status quo and ask, there's a better way to 504 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 2: do it. Why would we do it that way? I've 505 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: got an idea, and it takes a whole lot of 506 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: dissolution of ego for a leader that's been in a 507 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: unit like we've served in that's been there for twenty 508 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 2: years and seen it all. Also, they think to go, ah, 509 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: maybe I would be wrong, and let's hear that young 510 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: that young trooper who's just come off a rio cycle. 511 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: Let's hear your opinion. You don't see that too often 512 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: in the corporate world that in Special Forces unit you 513 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: see it a lot. You walk into a mission planning 514 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 2: room if you're a if you'd never been in that 515 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: mission planning room before, you'd think two things. Thing one, 516 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: who's the freaking leader? This is like chaos? And thing two? 517 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: Why do they all hate each other? But there is 518 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 2: a leader, and they don't hate each other. They're just 519 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: deeply passionate about getting this right. 520 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I could imagine that you had your work cut 521 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: out meat to really get that to stick. And did 522 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: you manage to see that the transition before you left? 523 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: Definitely? I mean yeah, absolutely. You know, instructing on a 524 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: selection course, Ben Pronk and I talk about this a 525 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 2: little bit. We saw generation change that they were different 526 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: to what we were at. They turned up and they 527 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: had their phone and their phone was out and they're 528 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: surfing their Instagram account, and the instructor huddle sounded like this, 529 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 2: We're going to eat you up. But we didn't eat 530 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: them up because when their phones got put away, they 531 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: were smarter than we ever have been. Most of them 532 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: had been through university or had some form of sector, 533 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: certainly secondary school, but mostly through undergraduate programs. They were 534 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: as fit as we were. They had the same type 535 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: of mindset. And interestingly, you know, fast forward a little 536 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 2: bit as this younger generation gets selected. I actually live 537 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: quite close to the SAS Barracks, and so I have 538 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: the benefit of going for a run along the beach 539 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: and you know, there's a squadron of black Hawks running 540 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: some mission profiles for the boys in training, and they 541 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: look as good as we did. It's kind of number 542 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: one look good in Special Forces. But yeah, I think 543 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 2: to say that the younger generation aren't as tough as 544 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: us is an error. There is far more opportunity for 545 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: them to be educated, to be informed, to be globally aware. 546 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you know some interesting things. Her girl, Rachel Vickory, well, 547 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 2: I've interviewed for building resilient kids. She also not just 548 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 2: works with kids, but works with special Forces units, NBA, 549 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: UK Soccer Premier League and the Light And when she 550 00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 2: walks into the essas regiment, she changes their ability to 551 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: shoot straight. When she finishes with them, they shoot straighter 552 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: than they have before, and more cognitively aware and more 553 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: situationally aware. She's never picked a pistol up in a life. 554 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: In fact, it's nothing to do with the pistol technique. 555 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: It's all about their ability to regulate back. And so 556 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: I think, you know, in being clever, they're embracing science. 557 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 2: They're now thinking, well, yeah, how can we train a 558 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 2: bit smarter. A pistol shot isn't all about like we 559 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 2: were twenty and ten down the range, you know, just 560 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 2: bang bang, bang bang, as much volume as you possibly could. 561 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: But there is science to this, and if we teach 562 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: the science, we get the kids to perform better. We 563 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: get this generation to perform better, you know. And I 564 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: think that's the domain of high performance elements or units 565 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: or organizations or labs inside Special Forces units to really 566 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: bring this to life. Whether it's nutrition, whether it's training, 567 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: whether it's skills based. I mean, we know from work 568 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: that's been done in the US Navy Seals that you 569 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 2: can learn a language three times faster if you're in 570 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 2: a sensory deprived environment. So let's do that. So putting 571 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: the science in and to your point, this generation just 572 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: recognizes that there are all of these alternate pathways to 573 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: get better results nearly in every area, in every discipline, 574 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: every skill. 575 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: You continue this progress and these learnings and this structure 576 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: way beyond the military. So you leave the military and 577 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: then you jump straight into sort of a businesses across 578 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: the globe, don't you. And it is your drives, you know, 579 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: or your purpose to make people the best version of 580 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: who they are, whether that's the military people, whether that's businesses, 581 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: whether that's you know, whatever it may be, because that's 582 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: what I love doing. I love it when people realize 583 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: what they're capable of. A lot of people that I've mentored, 584 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: that I've I've read my books, that I've taken through 585 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: these these courses and these and these workshop day camps, 586 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: whatever it may be. You know, the odd sort of 587 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: super humbling comment is, and You've changed my life. And 588 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, you've changed your life. 589 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: You've had to make that decision that I've changed you 590 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: as an individual. But you have to make that commitment, 591 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: you have to make that decision to change your life. 592 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: That's over to you. I can't take the pat on 593 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: the back for that, is that what you do when 594 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: you leave? Are you still in that process of wanting 595 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: to better people and organizations and teams? 596 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 2: I'm passionate about that. Yeah, the individual you know, a 597 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 2: pound for pound basis, but also how do we clip 598 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: all these individuals together and call them a team that's 599 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: bound by the dividend of trust that you know you 600 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 2: can measure by metric. Whether the metrics dollars you know, 601 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: great British pounds, or whether it's ouncis of goal doesn't 602 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: really matter, like whatever your key result indicator happens to be. 603 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: And so, yeah, ten years in the Middle East, two 604 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: and a half years in Afghanistan, and a chunk of 605 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: time also in Iraq, just looking at how do we 606 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: build teams in these high pressure environments, how do we 607 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: alvi and ized and how do we get good results? 608 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: And mostly that was in the business environment, and then 609 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: back here home for the last decade doing the same 610 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 2: thing in our little business, both in the Resilient Shield 611 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: but also in Metal Global, where we actually take leaders 612 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: in that leader of leader models and empower them to 613 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: build teams that can perform under extreme pressure. The principles 614 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: are exactly the same, the environment slightly different. And then yeah, 615 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 2: sure you need a slice of resilience in there as well, 616 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: individually and collectively. And your ability to do that under 617 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: acute pressure and call out a crisis that's kind of 618 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 2: really rarely crucial. We take a hell of a lot 619 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: of fulfillment from doing that with teams that then, you know, 620 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 2: collectively look at you and go, wow, that was awesome. 621 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: We're going to change some things that will make us 622 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: perform better. And then your ability to then look at 623 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 2: the stock price and whether this is a direct correlation causation, 624 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: go God knows and see that improve you know, whether 625 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 2: it's at asset site facility level, whether it's stock price basis. Yeah, 626 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 2: that's super super awarding me. We absolutely love it. 627 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: And always you're doing this, mate, your mentor and your coaching. 628 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: What do you do in order to make sure that 629 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: you are practicing what you preach and that you're going 630 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: through this process with yourself? 631 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: It comes down to your individual accountability. I mean, you 632 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: do it well. We can see that you don't need 633 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: to know Middleton on a granular basis to recognize that 634 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 2: you are constantly testing yourself. You aren't going to expect 635 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: anyone else to do anything that you wouldn't do, and 636 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: you are walking that walk. You're not telling people what 637 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 2: to do, You're demonstrating it. And I think that's important 638 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: to embrace that discomfort. I can't go and talk resilience, 639 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: the importance of meditation, mindfulness, or doing sleep, diet, exercise well, 640 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 2: or having a strong social network if I can't demonstrate that. 641 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 2: And so there's a bit of accountability in the way 642 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 2: that we deliver and necessity really for you to continue 643 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 2: to make contributions to you being the best version of you. 644 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 2: I think also, you know, as facilitators, coaches, mentors, you 645 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 2: aren't going to be the energy in the room to 646 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 2: inspire and motivate people unless you have all of your 647 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 2: stuff in the proverbial sock that you are doing all 648 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: the right things, and you can kind of track that. 649 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 2: You can track that by peer observations. I gave a 650 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: keynote today and on the way back got a debrief 651 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 2: from my peers and how did that go? What should 652 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: we change? And yeah, I've got a fairly direct feedback. 653 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 2: You know, debriefs have always been a cornerstone of special 654 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: forces units, and I don't have any ego in this game. 655 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 2: I just wanted to deliver the best product that I 656 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 2: possibly can. But then there's another way, and that's the 657 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: data fed And this kind kind of comes back to 658 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,959 Speaker 2: the science that there are wearables now that will tell 659 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 2: you what you're doing well and not so well on 660 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 2: an individual basis. There are surveys scales that you can 661 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 2: undertake to tell you what your team is doing well 662 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 2: and not so well. And I think all of those 663 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: measurables are a form of accountability, whether it's peers, whether 664 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 2: it's data, whether it's surveys and feedback. This three sixty 665 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 2: appraisal is kind of crucial. So yeah, I love that. 666 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: How do you find going from you know, teaching this 667 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: in the special Forces to then trying to implement this 668 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: to I suppose a level or a standard of that 669 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: within within Sibbi Street, within businesses? How dustic was that change? 670 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 1: And how did you roll with the punches? Shall we say? 671 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: That makes sense? 672 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: What You've got to roll with the punches? Absolutely, I've 673 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 2: got to roll with the punches because I've now recognized 674 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 2: that I'm unlikely to build a high performance team like 675 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: the one I served in the SAS and so therefore 676 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 2: you do have to compromise a little bit on your 677 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 2: expectation and your outcomes. You do have to maybe hear 678 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 2: someone say, oh, I kind of want to work on 679 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: priority too before I work on PRIORITI one and be 680 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 2: comfortable with that a little bit. And you have to 681 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 2: be comfortable in looking at teams like I've done all 682 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 2: I possibly can. But it's your choice now, you know, 683 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 2: individually and collectively on what you apply, and there's kind 684 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 2: of there is definitely a bit of frustration at times 685 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 2: on oh we could have done that better. This is 686 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 2: a second battlefield. The battlefield of business is real. That 687 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: there is cut, parry, thrust, that there is cloak and 688 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 2: dagger and a variety of different things. I'm telling you 689 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: the principles. The principles are completely transferrable from a special 690 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: Forces unit into an LS listed company or an ASX 691 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 2: listed company or a Fortune five hundred. The principles are 692 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 2: the same. The question is how do we ensure the 693 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: transferability and applicability of those lessons inside their environment. We've 694 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 2: got to get the contextualized part right. But that's the 695 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 2: fun bit. You know, as a as a chel to 696 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 2: your point. That's the challenge. Yeah, how do I make 697 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 2: you better with the things that I know really work well? 698 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: And you know, if I was to see is an 699 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 2: example of how I've struggled with it as well, it 700 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 2: would be coming back to second book, you know, Building 701 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 2: Resilient Kids, you know the titlely or podcasts head Game. 702 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 2: I stood there thinking, well, I wrote the Resilience Shield 703 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 2: with the Dan Pronk and Ben Pronk. There were three 704 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 2: of us. You can kind of hide in three authors. 705 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 2: We didn't know much about resilience. But it kind of 706 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 2: worked out okay. But when it came to the second book, 707 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 2: I thought, I've got no right to write this book. 708 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 2: I can't possibly write it. I'm not a teacher, not 709 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 2: an educator, not a child psychologist, not an academic in 710 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 2: this field. I have no right to write this book. 711 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 2: But my mindset just wasn't right and it actually, believe 712 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 2: it or not, took a bunch of gold miners in 713 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 2: a session. I was running out at a gold mine 714 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 2: to question my mindset to say, well, if you don't 715 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: write it, who does? And by the way, even though 716 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: you're not any of those experts, doesn't that mean that 717 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 2: you won't come at this with a bias, with a 718 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: prejudice trying to I don't know, be a headmaster, or 719 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 2: you get your paper published, or get more people into 720 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 2: your site clinic and your father like, isn't that the 721 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 2: important part? And I was given a little bump that 722 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 2: forced me to go, right, well, if I don't write it, 723 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 2: who will? What's the worst that can happen? And actually 724 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 2: the worst it can happen was far less dramatic than 725 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 2: I thought. And even some of this negativity bias that 726 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: we're hardwired for constantly thinking about things in a negative way, 727 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 2: it's our brain's way actually of keeping us alive, has 728 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: been put to bed. Like I thought, oh, the experts 729 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 2: are going to laugh me out of town, but no, 730 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 2: from Maggie Dent to Justin Coulson to Steve Binoff, all 731 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 2: of these absolute experts in Australia on this issue of 732 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 2: building resilient kids have been nothing but supportive, just going 733 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 2: this is absolutely wonderful. And so you know, sometimes if 734 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 2: you can just nudge your own mindset or someone else 735 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,240 Speaker 2: a coach of mentor can give you also a little bump, 736 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 2: you can pursue that self improvement. 737 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you have written this book mate, And 738 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: where can we get this new book mate? And if 739 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: I said to the word resilily against to you, what 740 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: does it mean to you? And how important is it 741 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: for children to be able to get into a process 742 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: where they can forge resilience growing up? 743 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: I mean the definition that we go to is a 744 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 2: better than expected outcome given the adversity face. Not a 745 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 2: perfect outcome, but a better than expected outcome. So even 746 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 2: in an environment where an adult might realize some trauma 747 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 2: or challenges financial relationship, if they had a better that 748 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 2: expected outcome, they're defined as being resilient. This also varies 749 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 2: by degree, not kind. So that definition is applicable for 750 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 2: our kids. Are better than expected outcome given the adversity faced, 751 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 2: and we want them to confront some adversity. You don't 752 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 2: build resilience unless you have stress pushing against it. So 753 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 2: we need to introduce some stress some strugglers we've already 754 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 2: talked about. And the applicability here by age and stage 755 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 2: is completely irrelevant. You can teach a toddle of to meditate, 756 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 2: not in the lotus position, but you can teach self awareness, 757 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 2: which is the fundamental underlying part of meditation. You can 758 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 2: introduce the concepts of sleeping well, eating well, doing some exercise, 759 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 2: which for our kids is free play, outdoor play, risky play. 760 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 2: Introducing that so too. You know, when you think about 761 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 2: all of the downside, twenty percent of society identifies as 762 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 2: being lonely. That's sequel and of smoking a packet of 763 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 2: cigarette today according to doctor VIVEC. 764 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: Murphy. 765 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 2: So we don't want our kids to be lonely, otherwise 766 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 2: they're going to be a physiologically unwell. So improving their 767 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 2: social support system, building competence in their professional layer through chores, 768 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 2: part time work, having them understand that there are techniques 769 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 2: that they can apply to be focused and attent it 770 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 2: at moments in time, and what they can do to 771 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 2: distract themselves from the distraction. That's kind of the important 772 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 2: part when it comes to screens and all of those 773 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 2: things enable them to hopefully grow up healthy and well. 774 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 2: It will break down the thirty percent of kids in 775 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 2: this country that identifies being obese, the thirty percent of 776 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 2: those that identify as having a mental health issue that 777 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 2: are reporting to clinicians for mental health. It enables kids, 778 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 2: in some way, with our help, to get active in 779 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 2: their own rescue. And we're not marginalizing the role of 780 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 2: the professionals. But there's plenty that we and our kids 781 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 2: can do to build resilience before we have to turn 782 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 2: our attention to the professions. Books available in all bookshops 783 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 2: in Australia. It's on Amazon as well for internationals. You 784 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 2: can get author signed copies at resilientshield dot com. Audiobook 785 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 2: ebook is all out there. Yeah, it's been wonderful journey 786 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 2: and actually a real privilege to interview the true experts 787 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 2: in arranged different fields for the book. 788 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: Mate, what a title, Building Resilient Kids Now? If ever, 789 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: that's a message for now and the future, that is 790 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: it made Listen, keep mentoring, Tim, keep growing, keep becoming 791 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: the best version of yourself so you can pass that 792 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: onto others. Thanks buddy, Thanks aam. Tim's book Building Resilient 793 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: Kids is available now. I'll put the details in the 794 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: show notes. Thanks for joining me on this episode of 795 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: head Game. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave me 796 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,399 Speaker 1: a review. I'm at Middleton. See you again next time.