1 00:00:05,730 --> 00:00:08,519 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:11,490 Sean Aylmer: On the surface, investing in infrastructure can sound a bit 3 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:16,110 Sean Aylmer: dry, shall we say. Big assets, relatively safe and predictable, 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,660 Sean Aylmer: all the reasons why our Super funds love them so 5 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:21,959 Sean Aylmer: much. But under the surface, infrastructure investing is all about 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,130 Sean Aylmer: people investing in the things that society needs and wants. 7 00:00:26,340 --> 00:00:30,299 Sean Aylmer: And as demographics change, those opportunities change as well. Remember, 8 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:32,670 Sean Aylmer: this is general information only, and you should seek professional 9 00:00:32,670 --> 00:00:36,180 Sean Aylmer: advice before making investment decisions. Sarah Shaw is the Chief 10 00:00:36,210 --> 00:00:40,560 Sean Aylmer: Investment Officer and Global Portfolio Manager at 4D Infrastructure, a 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,098 Sean Aylmer: boutique asset manager, investing in listed infrastructure companies right around 12 00:00:44,098 --> 00:00:45,900 Sean Aylmer: the world. Sarah, welcome back to Fear & Greed. 13 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:47,159 Sarah Shaw: Thanks for having me. 14 00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:50,309 Sean Aylmer: Sarah, we've spoken before, but I've got to ask you, 15 00:00:50,370 --> 00:00:53,550 Sean Aylmer: what it is about infrastructure that you find so appealing? 16 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:57,510 Sarah Shaw: Well, you've basically highlighted one of the points I love, 17 00:00:57,510 --> 00:01:01,860 Sarah Shaw: which is the defensiveness. I like the stable, predictable, visible 18 00:01:01,860 --> 00:01:06,179 Sarah Shaw: earning streams that underpin infrastructure assets. And that's the part 19 00:01:06,179 --> 00:01:09,479 Sarah Shaw: that's generally well understood about the asset class. But what 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,890 Sarah Shaw: I find most exciting is the potential growth that's underpinning 21 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:16,319 Sarah Shaw: the asset class. And it comes to the points you 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,660 Sarah Shaw: raised. There are so many things, supporting society, supporting the 23 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:25,889 Sarah Shaw: energy transition, supporting the evolution of the globe, that all 24 00:01:25,889 --> 00:01:29,520 Sarah Shaw: require huge amounts of infrastructure investment. And that growth dynamic 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,650 Sarah Shaw: is incredibly exciting. And provides you visibility, it provides you, 26 00:01:34,650 --> 00:01:39,209 Sarah Shaw: really, earnings stability, but with huge growth. What's not to love? 27 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:41,340 Sean Aylmer: What's not to love? I want to get into the 28 00:01:41,340 --> 00:01:43,799 Sean Aylmer: growth things, but let's just get... It's not boring at 29 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:46,949 Sean Aylmer: all because infrastructure as an asset class has truly been 30 00:01:46,949 --> 00:01:49,860 Sean Aylmer: one of the saviors for many investors over many, many 31 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:53,250 Sean Aylmer: years. When you think about infrastructure, just what are you 32 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:56,160 Sean Aylmer: talking about? Because it's quite broad, isn't it? 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,480 Sarah Shaw: It is, but it is the basic services that are essential for communities 34 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,900 Sarah Shaw: to function, and for economies to prosper and grow. And 35 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:06,900 Sarah Shaw: we really split that into two buckets. On the one 36 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:09,840 Sarah Shaw: hand, we have what we call regulated utilities or essential 37 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,690 Sarah Shaw: services. So these are your gas, your power, your water 38 00:02:12,690 --> 00:02:18,508 Sarah Shaw: networks, really supporting basic survival and societies in general. And 39 00:02:18,508 --> 00:02:20,130 Sarah Shaw: then, on the other hand, we have what we call 40 00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:23,038 Sarah Shaw: user pay assets. So these are your toll roads, your 41 00:02:23,038 --> 00:02:27,780 Sarah Shaw: airports, your port companies, your rail, which provide transport and 42 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:30,990 Sarah Shaw: efficiency links for everyone around the globe. 43 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:33,780 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's jump into the growth part of it. 44 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:35,700 Sean Aylmer: Because everything you've described there, I think most of us 45 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:39,478 Sean Aylmer: understand that toll roads, you pay your toll, and energy, 46 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:45,150 Sean Aylmer: you pay your utility bills, and it's relatively stable. Let's 47 00:02:45,150 --> 00:02:47,490 Sean Aylmer: talk about growth. I know you see a lot of 48 00:02:47,490 --> 00:02:51,150 Sean Aylmer: opportunities, but let's start with New York water pipes. 49 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:56,309 Sarah Shaw: Yeah, I think it is one of the five key growth thematics, 50 00:02:56,309 --> 00:03:00,780 Sarah Shaw: and that is developed market replacement spend. We have very 51 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:05,520 Sarah Shaw: old, aging, and falling down infrastructure in a lot of 52 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,429 Sarah Shaw: parts of the developed world, which, if we don't replace 53 00:03:08,429 --> 00:03:11,790 Sarah Shaw: it, it's going to have social and economic consequences. You 54 00:03:11,790 --> 00:03:14,250 Sarah Shaw: mentioned the New York water pipes, and this is across 55 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:16,678 Sarah Shaw: a lot of the US, which is considered a global 56 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,070 Sarah Shaw: superpower, they have water pipes that are over 100 years 57 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:23,369 Sarah Shaw: old. In some places, we are still pulling out wooden 58 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:27,358 Sarah Shaw: water pipes from the grounds. And this is creating significant 59 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,179 Sarah Shaw: issues, both from a health and social aspect, but also 60 00:03:30,179 --> 00:03:34,680 Sarah Shaw: from an efficiency and an environmental aspect. So the replacement 61 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,090 Sarah Shaw: of the US water network alone is a 100- year investment cycle. 62 00:03:39,540 --> 00:03:41,910 Sarah Shaw: And they are not alone in that. If you look 63 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:45,810 Sarah Shaw: at London, over 50% of London's water mains are over 64 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,790 Sarah Shaw: 100 years old. And this is a developed market dynamic 65 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,430 Sarah Shaw: which must be replaced and is going nowhere. 66 00:03:54,090 --> 00:03:57,720 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so replacement of infrastructure and developed economies, you said, 67 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,270 Sean Aylmer: is one of five themes. What's another one? 68 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,290 Sarah Shaw: Look, the five key themes are developed market replacement spend, which we 69 00:04:04,290 --> 00:04:07,170 Sarah Shaw: just touched on. Second one is, quite simply, population growth. 70 00:04:07,469 --> 00:04:10,529 Sarah Shaw: We have a population of about seven billion, which is 71 00:04:10,529 --> 00:04:13,170 Sarah Shaw: going to about 11 billion, and we need to support 72 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:16,560 Sarah Shaw: that population growth. The third big one, which I'm really 73 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,879 Sarah Shaw: excited about, is the emergence of the middle class in developing economies, which require 74 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,259 Sarah Shaw: huge amounts of infrastructure to drive that emergence. And if 75 00:04:25,259 --> 00:04:28,799 Sarah Shaw: you consider that 85% of the global population lives in the 76 00:04:28,799 --> 00:04:32,490 Sarah Shaw: emerging world, you can understand the size of that dynamic. 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,089 Sarah Shaw: The fourth big thematic, which we hear a lot about 78 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:39,120 Sarah Shaw: and is growing and growing on a daily basis, is 79 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,290 Sarah Shaw: the energy transition or a greener future. And then, the 80 00:04:43,290 --> 00:04:45,960 Sarah Shaw: fifth big theme, which I think is driving a lot 81 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,760 Sarah Shaw: of global equity outperformance at the moment, but the infrastructure 82 00:04:50,790 --> 00:04:55,050 Sarah Shaw: element to it is completely understated, and that is the technology thing. 83 00:04:55,950 --> 00:04:59,520 Sarah Shaw: Data centers, and all artificial intelligence, and the Internet of 84 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,060 Sarah Shaw: Things, and all of those technology advancements that we're investing in, 85 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,410 Sarah Shaw: require huge investment in communication towers, as well as huge 86 00:05:07,470 --> 00:05:12,300 Sarah Shaw: investments in energy. You need security supply in your electricity 87 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:16,080 Sarah Shaw: and energy networks if technology is going to produce what 88 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:17,220 Sarah Shaw: it's promising. 89 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:19,440 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Sarah, we'll be back in a minute. 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,880 Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Sarah Shaw from 4D Infrastructure. Okay, 91 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,130 Sean Aylmer: so let's go back to with the emergence of middle 92 00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:34,650 Sean Aylmer: class in the emerging world, and Asia is on our 93 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:40,349 Sean Aylmer: doorstep, big population growth there. How does that evolve over 94 00:05:40,350 --> 00:05:42,120 Sean Aylmer: the next five, 10, 20, 50 years? 95 00:05:43,410 --> 00:05:46,200 Sarah Shaw: Yeah, look, if you think about any emerging world, in 96 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,130 Sarah Shaw: particular Asia, as you mentioned, big, big populations. As your wealth 97 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:54,990 Sarah Shaw: improves, your fundamental spending patterns change. Look, it starts with 98 00:05:54,990 --> 00:05:57,570 Sarah Shaw: a desire for three meals a day, that's well understood. 99 00:05:57,570 --> 00:05:59,339 Sarah Shaw: But then, it moves to things like, " I want indoor 100 00:05:59,339 --> 00:06:02,670 Sarah Shaw: plumbing, clean water. I want gas for cooking and heating." 101 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:05,789 Sarah Shaw: That's all infrastructure. Once you have that, then you want 102 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:08,130 Sarah Shaw: a white good, or you want a television, or you 103 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:10,320 Sarah Shaw: want a fridge, or you want a washing machine. That 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,880 Sarah Shaw: requires increased usage of that infrastructure. It also requires logistics 105 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,000 Sarah Shaw: chains, like roads and port capacity and rail networks, to 106 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,330 Sarah Shaw: get those goods around. And then, over time, you might 107 00:06:21,330 --> 00:06:24,089 Sarah Shaw: get that scooter or that car. Or you may move 108 00:06:24,089 --> 00:06:27,690 Sarah Shaw: around and see different parts of your country or the 109 00:06:27,690 --> 00:06:32,519 Sarah Shaw: world. That all requires infrastructure. So the reality is, infrastructure 110 00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:35,789 Sarah Shaw: is the driver of the emergence of the middle class, as well as 111 00:06:35,789 --> 00:06:39,630 Sarah Shaw: the first beneficiary of the emergence of the middle class. 112 00:06:40,050 --> 00:06:43,770 Sarah Shaw: And I think it's a very exciting theme, considering how much of 113 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:46,740 Sarah Shaw: the globe is striving for a better quality of life. 114 00:06:48,029 --> 00:06:51,599 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So you've got that, and we know about technology data 115 00:06:51,599 --> 00:06:54,720 Sean Aylmer: centers, AI towers, et cetera. We know about the energy 116 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,710 Sean Aylmer: transition population and growth, obviously a big one. How do you 117 00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:02,099 Sean Aylmer: know what to invest in those? There is so much 118 00:07:02,099 --> 00:07:04,620 Sean Aylmer: opportunity, and you can hear the excitement in your voice, Sarah, 119 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:07,379 Sean Aylmer: and I get that. But what's the process you go 120 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:09,959 Sean Aylmer: through to work out what to invest in? 121 00:07:10,709 --> 00:07:14,130 Sarah Shaw: Of course. And, look, it really is, I'm still wanting those 122 00:07:14,130 --> 00:07:18,300 Sarah Shaw: characteristics that infrastructure is supposed to promise. And it is long- 123 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,899 Sarah Shaw: term visible and resilient earning streams. So I want to 124 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:26,040 Sarah Shaw: invest and capitalize on these thematics, but with visibility in 125 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,059 Sarah Shaw: my earnings and my valuations. And in order to do 126 00:07:30,059 --> 00:07:33,270 Sarah Shaw: that, I need assets, and have a regulatory model or 127 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:37,170 Sarah Shaw: a contract structure that is going to uphold those returns 128 00:07:37,170 --> 00:07:39,780 Sarah Shaw: over a period of time, and can capitalize on these 129 00:07:39,780 --> 00:07:42,599 Sarah Shaw: themes. So there's one thing to have the regulation and 130 00:07:42,599 --> 00:07:46,230 Sarah Shaw: contract in place, but as a long- term investor within 131 00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:49,230 Sarah Shaw: these assets, I need to make sure that those contracts 132 00:07:49,230 --> 00:07:52,980 Sarah Shaw: or regulations are going to be upheld throughout the lifecycle 133 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:55,320 Sarah Shaw: of an asset. Because if you keep in mind that 134 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,340 Sarah Shaw: infrastructure's a very high upfront capital cost, but then you 135 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:01,259 Sarah Shaw: have a lot of scale advantages, and you've got a 136 00:08:01,259 --> 00:08:05,490 Sarah Shaw: lot of return as that asset evolves. So, for us, 137 00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:07,590 Sarah Shaw: one of the key things that we look at before 138 00:08:07,890 --> 00:08:11,160 Sarah Shaw: we're assessing these assets is the strength of a judicial system 139 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,910 Sarah Shaw: in the country that we're investing in, which will uphold 140 00:08:14,910 --> 00:08:19,529 Sarah Shaw: my contract or regulation, which will ultimately underpin the earnings 141 00:08:19,530 --> 00:08:22,740 Sarah Shaw: profile that I'm investing to provide. 142 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:28,080 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, okay. So the legal, we talk about good government and good 143 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,300 Sean Aylmer: governance. I suppose that's what you're talking about. So if 144 00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:33,208 Sean Aylmer: you're going to, I won't pick any particular country, but 145 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:36,360 Sean Aylmer: a country in Asia, you're looking at the legal system, 146 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:39,660 Sean Aylmer: presumably. What else are you... Are there any other sovereign 147 00:08:39,660 --> 00:08:41,130 Sean Aylmer: risks that you're particularly worried about? 148 00:08:41,850 --> 00:08:43,470 Sarah Shaw: Governments are going to come and go, and I think 149 00:08:43,470 --> 00:08:46,440 Sarah Shaw: that's one of the big issues here. We are looking 150 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,740 Sarah Shaw: at 30, 40, 50 year assets. Over that period of time, you're 151 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:52,290 Sarah Shaw: going to see governments come and go. So, actually, what 152 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:54,989 Sarah Shaw: we are really looking for is the independence of a judicial 153 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:57,540 Sarah Shaw: system, relative to governments. I don't want a government to 154 00:08:57,540 --> 00:09:00,480 Sarah Shaw: come in and try and change my contract or regulation. 155 00:09:00,929 --> 00:09:03,929 Sarah Shaw: And if they do, I want the court system to 156 00:09:03,929 --> 00:09:06,838 Sarah Shaw: be able to uphold it. So, clearly, that's key, is 157 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,349 Sarah Shaw: actually looking at the strength of the judicial system to 158 00:09:10,349 --> 00:09:14,610 Sarah Shaw: withstand any disruption to my contracts. The second thing that we're clearly 159 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,059 Sarah Shaw: looking at is a government that is supportive of infrastructure 160 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,050 Sarah Shaw: investment. And the recognition that they need private sector capital 161 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,319 Sarah Shaw: to get the infrastructure in play, that they need to 162 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,269 Sarah Shaw: support the evolution of their economies. So they're key, the 163 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:33,270 Sarah Shaw: foundation of the contract or regulation itself, and has to 164 00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:36,509 Sarah Shaw: be good. And that all has to come together to 165 00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:39,540 Sarah Shaw: give me comfort that when I put an investment dollar 166 00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:42,750 Sarah Shaw: at work, I'm going to get the return I'm promised thereon. 167 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:46,740 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Of the ones that you've gone through, the replacement 168 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:51,540 Sean Aylmer: and developed technologies, population growth, middle class, energy transition technology, 169 00:09:52,650 --> 00:09:54,479 Sean Aylmer: do you have a favorite? Is there one that you 170 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,200 Sean Aylmer: think has greatest potential? Or is it very asset specific? 171 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,160 Sarah Shaw: It's asset and country specific. So it's clearly some themes 172 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,150 Sarah Shaw: are very correlated to particular countries. And developed market replacements 173 00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:10,350 Sarah Shaw: span, clearly, developed markets. Emerging market, or the emergence of the middle class, 174 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:14,100 Sarah Shaw: is clearly in the developed economies. Energy transition is global, that is 175 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:18,390 Sarah Shaw: the one is just snowballing. But interestingly for us, if 176 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:21,750 Sarah Shaw: we take the energy transition as an example, I'm very 177 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:25,920 Sarah Shaw: much more biased towards the grids. So the transmission, the 178 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,659 Sarah Shaw: distribution grids, the networks, over the pure play generation side 179 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:34,050 Sarah Shaw: of things. Because for every dollar that you spend on 180 00:10:34,050 --> 00:10:38,040 Sarah Shaw: a green generation, you need a multiple spent on grid 181 00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:41,969 Sarah Shaw: connections. And I get a very stable, regulated return on 182 00:10:41,969 --> 00:10:45,839 Sarah Shaw: that. And that's a very strong investment proposition, which is 183 00:10:45,839 --> 00:10:46,799 Sarah Shaw: growing rapidly. 184 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:52,230 Sean Aylmer: Okay, Sarah, so how should people think about investing in 185 00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:56,130 Sean Aylmer: these types of assets? Because, obviously, we are talking about multi- 186 00:10:56,130 --> 00:10:59,370 Sean Aylmer: billion dollar, certainly multi hundreds of millions of dollars, of 187 00:10:59,370 --> 00:11:03,508 Sean Aylmer: investments here. How do most people invest in it? 188 00:11:04,259 --> 00:11:08,580 Sarah Shaw: Yes. Look, I think you mentioned at the very outset that Super funds 189 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:11,040 Sarah Shaw: are looking at it going directly, whereas we are actually 190 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,400 Sarah Shaw: invested in the listed equity market. So we're investing in 191 00:11:14,730 --> 00:11:18,179 Sarah Shaw: the companies that are executing and building and operating these 192 00:11:18,179 --> 00:11:20,819 Sarah Shaw: assets, so the industrial operators. And I think that's a 193 00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:23,910 Sarah Shaw: great way for people to gain exposure is through the 194 00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:27,750 Sarah Shaw: equity markets. Because the beauty of infrastructure, which we've discussed 195 00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:32,280 Sarah Shaw: today, is those defensive characteristics, plus this huge growth potential. 196 00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:34,920 Sarah Shaw: But if you're investing within the listed equity markets, you 197 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,389 Sarah Shaw: can also position yourself for the short- term cyclical or 198 00:11:39,389 --> 00:11:43,348 Sarah Shaw: macro events that could disrupt markets in the interim. And 199 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:47,309 Sarah Shaw: as a dedicated manager, and if investors are looking to 200 00:11:47,309 --> 00:11:50,280 Sarah Shaw: get a pool or a group of assets together, then 201 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,890 Sarah Shaw: investing as a specialized manager is a great way to 202 00:11:53,099 --> 00:11:57,809 Sarah Shaw: that. Because they will be actively positioning the portfolio to 203 00:11:57,809 --> 00:12:02,400 Sarah Shaw: capitalize on, not only the long-term thematics and characteristics, but also 204 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,200 Sarah Shaw: the short- term cyclical events. 205 00:12:04,590 --> 00:12:06,300 Sean Aylmer: Sarah, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 206 00:12:06,690 --> 00:12:08,070 Sarah Shaw: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 207 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:11,520 Sean Aylmer: That was Sarah Shaw, Chief Investment Officer and Global Portfolio 208 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,179 Sean Aylmer: Manager at 4D Infrastructure. This is the Fear & Greed Business 209 00:12:15,179 --> 00:12:17,520 Sean Aylmer: Interview. Remember, this is general information only, and you should 210 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,760 Sean Aylmer: always seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Join us 211 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,280 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear & Greed, daily 212 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,949 Sean Aylmer: business news for people who make their own decisions. I'm 213 00:12:25,950 --> 00:12:27,390 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.