1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: I know and quite worked out Harry did it. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 2: He would be put into a very large milk can 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: full of water, and the top would be secured and 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: it would be changed put around it, and the crowd 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: will be told, try and hold your breath and see 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: if you can hold it for as long as your dani. 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 3: I'm Jen Kelly from the Herald Son and this is 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: In Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 3: forgotten characters. Welcome back to part two of the story 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 3: of Harry Houdini and the final episode of the In 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 3: Black and White podcast. Make sure you listen to part 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: one first. We'll have some special thank you messages at 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 3: the end of this episode. We're speaking again with Andrew McConville, 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 3: reference librarian at State Library Victoria. Now, we talked briefly 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: earlier about the first powered flight, which was also just 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: outside of Melbourne. Tell us about the significance of that 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: and the preparation that Houdini had done for that. 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: He decided that he was going to be I mean, 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: flight was obviously a brand new thing. So you know, 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: the Right brothers had only just made their fights not 21 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: many years before, and so he decided that he would 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: get onto this brand new phenomenon of flying. So he 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: had learned how to fly. I think in Germany he 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: had someone who taught him how to fly. 25 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: He had a mechanic. 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: He bought a particular aeroplane of whats in aeroplane that 27 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: he brought to Australia. So that would have been quite 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: an expensive process to bring a plane. And he did 29 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: that partly because he knew that at that stage there 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: didn't appear to have been any genuine successful flights in Australia, 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: so he wanted to be the first to do that, 32 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: and he did do that at Digger's Rest on the 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: adenth of March. There were a couple of other claimants 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: to that. A few days before. In fact, someone in 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: South Australia had claimed to make a fight, although it 36 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: appears as though they crashed rather than landed, and there 37 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: was not really much documentation of that. One thing who 38 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: doing he was very careful of was to ensure that 39 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: there were a number of witnesses who would sign that 40 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: he had made that flight. And so he did do 41 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: a few flights, not always successful, but he did do 42 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: one fight that was about three and a half minutes 43 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: and he traveled about thirty meters, so it doesn't say 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: that big a deal nowadays, but that was in the 45 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: infancy of flying, so that did become and is considered 46 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: the first a controlled flight in Australia, and again another 47 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: a great amount of publicity for him. I think there's 48 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: still a plaque at Digger's Rest to commemorate that, and 49 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: it does stand still despite there being some disputes from 50 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: other flights a little bit earlier, that this was the 51 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: first recorded controlled flight and documented controlled flight, so he 52 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: does hold that record, and again, you know, it's a 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: great I guess it's partly a publicity thing, but it's 54 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: also an enormous daredevil thing to be flying. I mean, 55 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: he was taught how to fly in Germany, so that 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: was very dangerous and he flying was very dangerous, and 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: yet he took that on. 58 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: So I think you're right about. 59 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: Him being a bit of a adrenaline junkie, because certainly 60 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: that was a pretty dangerous practice back in those days. 61 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 3: And there are some photos of this first powered flight 62 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: in the State Library collection. Can you tell us about those? 63 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: Yes, well, they're probably not quite as clear as they 64 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: might be, but there's still fantastic records of his first flight. Yeah, 65 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: so it's a photo of a plane actually, and as 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: I say, it looks nothing, looks like a whole lot 67 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: of boxes put together. 68 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: Actually it's a biplane. 69 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 2: You can see it there, just traveling barely above the trees. 70 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: And there's a horse there as well too, so that 71 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: kept out away for the landing. And there's about four 72 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: men sort of standing staring at the flight. So he 73 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: was always, as I say, very careful to make sure 74 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: he had reliable witnesses there to ensure that he had 75 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: it well documented. And it does look like it hasn't 76 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: got all that far off the ground, which you would 77 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: expect it didn't get that far off the ground. But 78 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: that is a great recording of what was the earliest 79 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: considered the earliest controlled flight in Australian history. 80 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: Now what else did he get up to in Melbourne 81 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: while he was here, Well, it. 82 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: Was mainly just the shows. I mean, he did those 83 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: challenges where various people would challenge him to you know, 84 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: their time in not stay clock him in boxes etc. 85 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: And he'd be able to get out. 86 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: Mainly, as I say, he also did the dive into 87 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 2: the Era, which is a big publicity stunt, but mainly 88 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: he was just appearing at the what was then called 89 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: the Opera House in his show over quite. 90 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: A number of weeks. 91 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: I don't think he did anything else particularly remarkable in Melbourne. 92 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: He was probably pretty busy actually, because he did appear, 93 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: you know, on stage each night, so that would have 94 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: been and his performances, even though they were fairly short, 95 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: they would have been quite demanding really, I mean getting 96 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: out of a straight check it would be pretty physically 97 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 2: demanding and tiring, so he would have been pretty tired 98 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,119 Speaker 2: even after a fairly short show. 99 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 3: I think now the Melbourne Opera House. But where was 100 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: that and how many seats were in that venue? 101 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: Well, I think there was a few thousand seats in 102 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: the venue. I think it existed from the nineteenth century, 103 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: but there was a few different opera houses because they 104 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: were burned out at times, and then it became thea 105 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: Tivoli Theater, so it it was a very popular place. 106 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: I think it held several thousand people, so it was 107 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: a big venue. So it was a big venue that 108 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: would have been filled for Hudini and the tickets for 109 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: who Deani were you know anywhere from depending on where 110 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: you were three shillings or two shillings or one shilling, 111 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: and there was a premium if you booked your tickets beforehand, 112 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: and there was general admission tickets where you could get 113 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: there earlier. So yeah, so it was in Burke Street, 114 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: and as I say, it was a very beautiful building, 115 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: but at various times it did get rebuilt. But it 116 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: did hold quite a number of people. I think it 117 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: was several thousand people could fit into the theater, so 118 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: you would have had big crowds every night, okay. 119 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: And then from there he's headed straight up to Sydney. 120 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: He has He's headed up to Sydney and done very 121 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: similar to what he did in Melbourne. I mean, doing 122 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: that the shows, taking on the various challenges that the 123 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: public put before him. 124 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: He did do a dive. 125 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: He was actually scared of the ocean. So he was 126 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: never that keen in diving into the ocean. 127 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: How fascinating. He shouldn't be scared of anything. He's Houdini. 128 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: Well, the other thing was that he was a terrible sailor. 129 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: He got dreadfully seasick, and so you know, even coming 130 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: to Australia would have won a great ordeal for him 131 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: to come that far and in fact, once he got 132 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: to Adelaide, he caught a train, so yeah, but he 133 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: he was a terrible sailor and he did sort of 134 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: say to the first reporter we spoke to that he 135 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: wouldn't dive into the water at Framel because he was 136 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: scared of sharks, and he did dive in Sydney. 137 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: He dived into the. 138 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: Domain Bars at the edge of Wormlou Bay, so didn't 139 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: dive into the ocean. He dived into the into a 140 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: bar's there, which I and I think the main thing 141 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: was that he wanted murky water because he didn't want 142 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: to see anybody. He didn't wan anybody to see what 143 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: he was doing, so he certainly would have had plenty 144 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: of murky water in the era. I think that Domain 145 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: Mars were likely just sort of a big dive. They 146 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: weren't actually proper swimming pool as such, so he'd go 147 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: down very deep and then he just appeared with his handcuffs. 148 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: So he did pretty much the same thing. He did 149 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: do some flights in Sydney, but he'd obviously obviously done 150 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: the first fight in Australia, and he did take on 151 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: challenges from the public and he was very successful there. Again, 152 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: I mean I think the other trick that he did 153 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: do none of the first night in Melbourne, but that 154 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: he did do in Australia, which was one of his 155 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: famous ones, which was the milk called the milk can trick, 156 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: which was all the milkcam mystery. But that was there 157 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: was something quite a bizarre story to that in that 158 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: when he arrived he complained that, according to his words, 159 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: a Sydney pugilist had stolen his milk can trick. And 160 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: that turned out not just to be any boxer. It 161 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: turned out to be the very famous Canadian world champion 162 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: Tommy Burns, who'd been in Australia in the Seminine hundred 163 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: and eight. He'd been in one of the huge fights 164 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 2: of the century against the African American fighter Jack Johnson, 165 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: and Tommy Burns got badly beaten, but it was a 166 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: huge sporting event and Tommy Burns stayed on and then 167 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: had this sort of odd stage show where he would 168 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: talk about his fights and his brother in law would 169 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: do this milk can trick and who done was very 170 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: annoyed at that, but he did do it himself. And 171 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: I mean that was again a trick that no one 172 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: quite worked out how he did it, he would be 173 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: put into a very large milk can full of water, 174 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: and the top would be secured and there would be 175 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: chains put around it, and there would just be a 176 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: screen put across the front, and the crowd will be 177 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: told that, you know, try and hold your breath and 178 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: see if you can hold it for as long as 179 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: your janey, and then who Doney when people were wondering 180 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: whether he drowned, Who Daney would appear dripping wet, and 181 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: you know, I think there were some tricks to that 182 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 2: as well. Apparently the rivets in the top of the 183 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: milk can were false, and if he pushed it in 184 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: a certain way he would get out. But still I 185 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: think that would be many people's worst nightmare to be 186 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: enclosed in a body of water like that with a 187 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: lid put on, and then to be able to get 188 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: out of that. So again, that was a very dramatic 189 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: trick that he did for quite a few years afterwards. 190 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: But I mean one of the things he did that 191 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: was quite interesting too. Because often he was so famous, 192 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: people were always trying to steal his tricks. He didn't 193 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 2: want to patent them because that would involve giving details 194 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: of exactly how they were done. 195 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: You know, have to patent every part of the apparatus. 196 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: So instead of that, he would sometimes hold performances for 197 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 2: a single person and that would be he would say, 198 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: that would copyright the trick because he'd done a public 199 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: the first public performance of it. 200 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: So that was one way he had of protecting his tricks. 201 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: But yes, he was very annoyed at Tommy Burns for 202 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: stealing his milkcan trick and climbing it as his own. 203 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: We'll be back soon to hear what happened to hu 204 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 3: Deini next, So stay with us, So tell us what 205 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: happened after his Australian tour. 206 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: Well, he continued to greater and greater fame. He continued 207 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: to tour in the United States and tour in Europe. 208 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: He was very popular in Europe and he did bigger 209 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: and bigger tricks. He's one of his most famous tricks 210 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: was in nineteen eighteen he at the Hippodrome in New York. 211 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: He had a very di soile elephant who's variously known 212 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: as Jenny or Fanny, but the name possibly lost their history. 213 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: But he had a huge box on stage and the 214 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: elephant was led into that and he made the elephant disappear, 215 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: and I think people, I mean other people had done 216 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 2: similar tricks. I think he purchased it from somebody, the 217 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: trick from somebody who'd made a donkey disappear, but he 218 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: went bigger and better. There's still discussion about how he 219 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: actually did that, whether it was mirrors or some sort 220 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: of false side. That must have made a pretty big 221 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: false side to hide an elephant, But anyway, he managed 222 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: to do that trick once on stage and make an 223 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: elephant disappear, which again created great interest in his performances. 224 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: But later on in life, like by the nine and twenties, 225 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: he did become very skeptical with spiritualism, and that became 226 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: a bit of a campaign of his up until his death. 227 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: I mean, in his early career he had tried many things, 228 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: card tricks, all sorts of tricks, and for a while 229 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: he and his wife were promoting themselves as spiritualists. That was, 230 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: you know, they had various tricks to do that. She 231 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: was he was Professor Houdini and she was the psychometric Madam. 232 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: And some of the tricks they'd used would be they 233 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: might have codes so that if she took a dollar 234 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: bill and was one side of the stage, and he 235 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: had to guess what the serial number was. They'd have 236 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: bland words that would need numbers. So if she said 237 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: something like, you know, tell me the number, tell my 238 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: maan one and then it might be have you guessed 239 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: at guests might man two? So he do go through 240 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: his whole performance. And they did that for a short time, 241 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: and they thought it was a bit of a ark. 242 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: But HERDONI was particularly attached to his mother, enormously attached 243 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: to his mother, and he was absolutely distressed when she died, 244 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: and after that he began to see spiritualism as a 245 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: fairly mean trick, and particularly after the First World War 246 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: when spiritualism became huge because so many people were trying 247 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: to connect with. 248 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: Dead sons and brothers and loved ones. 249 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: And he sort of spoke about how when he was young, 250 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: he didn't understand the seriousness of trifling with such sacred 251 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: sentimentality and the bineful results which inevitably followed. 252 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: To me, it was a lark. 253 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: And then he talks about how he realizes that he 254 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: feels quite guilty about being so frivolous about that, because 255 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: it is all a trick and it does give people 256 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: false hope when you shouldn't be doing that, And so 257 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: he did go on to say gladly, I would embrace 258 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: spiritualism if it could prove its claims, but I'm not 259 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 2: willing to be deluded by the fraudulent impositions of so 260 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: called psychics or accepted sacred reality any evidence that has 261 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: been placed before me thus far. And it was around 262 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: about this time, a little bit before that, he became 263 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: a great friend of Conan Doyle, Arthur Conan Doyle, the 264 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: creator of Shelock Holmes, and Conan Doyle was a great 265 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: believer in spiritualism, and so that sort of placed a 266 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 2: little bit of a challenge to their friendship. And there 267 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 2: was also an occasion where he went to a sort 268 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: of quasi seance with Conan Doyle, and Conan Doyle's wife 269 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: supposedly did automatic writings, so she was getting messages from 270 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: beyond the grave, and she supposedly was right from Harry 271 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: Hoo Doney's mother, and that was a very sensitive thing 272 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: for Harry who Doney, and he was pretty offended by 273 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: that because it was clearly false, and that really put 274 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: a great challenge to their friendship, and their friendship. 275 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: Was never as warm again, and he did. 276 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: Spend a lot of time unmasking what he considered to 277 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 2: be Charlotte and Spiritualism and to expose their tricks. And 278 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: so that was something that he wrote a book about, actually, 279 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: and he assumed the spiritualists quite a bit in later 280 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 2: in life. And part of it was, as I say, 281 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: that he was I think offended by this idea that 282 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: it could connect with people who had already died. Although 283 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: ironically he made an agreement with his wife that when 284 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: one of them died, the other would attempt to hold 285 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: a salance each year to connect and that would give 286 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: of them a proof that it either didn't work or 287 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: did work. And Beatrice did do that for ten years 288 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: after who Doney died but didn't make connection. So after 289 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 2: ten years decided that that would be the last annual 290 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: saliance she would hold. 291 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: The other thing that you mentioned briefly before is his 292 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: film career that it wasn't very successful. Tell us about that, well, 293 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: it was sort of. 294 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: I think he was a natural for film companies to 295 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: come to get him such a big star, such a 296 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: big name. He wasn't the world's greatest actor, I don't 297 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: think so. His performances were apparently very wooden, but he 298 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: did do quite a number of films over about a 299 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: ten or fifteen years period. The first ones were fairly successful, 300 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: but as film became more sophisticated, it became a bit 301 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: more obvious that with film you could pretty much do 302 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: any trick you wanted to. You could make anybody do 303 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: anything just with the tricks of film. So his great 304 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: escapes didn't see him as real because they weren't in person, 305 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: because you know, a lot of people could perform an 306 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: escape like that if you are cutting the film here there, 307 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: and you didn't no one was checking the particular apparatus, etc. 308 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: He did also fund some of his own films later on, 309 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: and they weren't successful, so he did actually waste a 310 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: fair bit of money doing that. But you can see 311 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: some of his films on YouTube and they're pretty wonky 312 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: old films. And he's probably he's not a natural actor, really, 313 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: and I guess that's one of the things he wasn't. 314 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: He didn't have that natural acting ability that a lot 315 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: of stage magicians have. He was more doing death deifying things, 316 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: so he was often very serious on stage, and he 317 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 2: wasn't sort of doing the sort of the amusing pattern 318 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: or doing the type of things that you might do 319 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: if you're a capable actor. So I don't think his 320 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: film career ended very well, and I think he lost 321 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: quite a bit of money by pursuing it with his 322 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: own money later on in the nine and twenties. 323 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: What was his personality like then? Was he quite serious? 324 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: It's interesting. 325 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I think he obviously was a child of 326 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: great poverty and missed out on a lot in childhood. 327 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: He was very divided to his mother. He could hold 328 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: a grudge though, I mean quite remarkably, having modeled himself 329 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: on Robert Hudan and being so enamored with him. Some 330 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: years later he wrote a book supposedly debunking you know, 331 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: the tricks of Robert who Dan, And that was apparently because, 332 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: I mean, Robert hoo Dan had died in eighteen seventy one, 333 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: so when done he was famous. He went to France 334 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: and he contacted various family members because he wanted to 335 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 2: put flowers on the grave, and they basically said, well, 336 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: anybody can go and put flowers on the grave, and 337 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 2: they didn't make a great fuss of him, so he 338 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: did seem to bear a grudge against them. And that 339 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: was one of the things was he did tend to 340 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: bear a bit of a grudge against some other magicians. 341 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: His youngest brother, Leonard, he bore a grudge against him, 342 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: to the point where some of the family photos had 343 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: Lenard airbrushed out of it. He and his wife weren't 344 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: party two who done his will. So he could be 345 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: pretty tough like that, and perhaps a little bit temperamental. 346 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: But for a performer, that's not unusual. Particularly, you know, 347 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 2: you would be very highly strung before a dangerous performance. 348 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: Things have to work really well. But he did have 349 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: a loyal crew with him, so he and his wife 350 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: did never have children, but they remained married for the 351 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: term of his life. Having married it, you know, she 352 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: was aiding and he was only twenty and they spent 353 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: a lot of time on the road, so they would 354 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 2: have had a tough life at various times. He was 355 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: an interesting character. I think, yeah, probably very much a 356 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 2: product of his childhood. 357 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 3: So you mentioned earlier on that Hudini only took on 358 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 3: tricks and challenges that he felt that he could do. 359 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: Did he ever have any failures or disasters or major injuries. 360 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 2: I think he had injuries, and he would continue on. 361 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 2: And that's one of the things, isn't it. I mean, 362 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 2: you've got to continue on. 363 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: The show must go on. 364 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: So and with such a physical show as his, he 365 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: would have had injuries. 366 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's getting out of straight jackets. 367 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: You know, there was I'm not sure if he was 368 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: ever proven, but there was a theory that he could 369 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: dislocate his shoulders. But you know, if you do those 370 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: sort of things, and I think if you look at 371 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: later photos of him, he understandably he looks older because 372 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 2: he years older, but he obviously isn't the same physical 373 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: specimen as he was, and obviously some of those tricks 374 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: would have been much more demanding as he moved into 375 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: his forties or later. The main problem that he had 376 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: with any of those challenges was this one in nineteen 377 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 2: hundred and four when he did have a blacksmith had 378 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: spent years making these impossible to escape handcuffs and who 379 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: and he possibly hadn't looked at them closely enough before 380 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 2: he accepted the challenge, and that did take him an 381 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: hour and a half really to get out of those handcuffs, 382 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: and when he came out, he was very he was 383 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: very disturbed, and his hands were all bloody, So I 384 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: think after that he made sure that he checked the 385 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: various conditions of the challenges in order to ensure that he. 386 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: Would be able to get out. 387 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: And look, it's hard to know whether perhaps he had 388 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 2: a little bit of help behind the screen from some 389 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: of his assistants, but they were fairly genuine and genuinely 390 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 2: he was pretty good at getting out of things. But 391 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 2: I would imagine that as time went on he would 392 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: have taken on less of those challenges. They were really 393 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 2: something that he did as a younger man when he 394 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: was becoming famous, and so they really enhanced his fame. 395 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: But I'm sure he did carry various injuries through him, 396 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: and of course when he died that was partly caused 397 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: by the fact that he didn't get attention for what 398 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 2: was clearly appendicitis and went on and performed and by 399 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 2: the time they removed his appendix it was too late. 400 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 3: So how old was he when he was fifty two? 401 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: And I mean there was a story that he put 402 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 2: on a show and he always used to be very 403 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: proud of his physique, even as a man in his fifties, 404 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 2: And a young student came in and said, oh, you know, 405 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: can you take a punch, and he said, of course 406 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: he could, and the student then punched him, you know, 407 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 2: three or four times, really hard without who Doney been 408 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 2: embraced for it. So there is one theory that perhaps 409 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: that caused the appendicitis, although genuinely it's considered that that 410 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: wouldn't cause the appendicitis. But he did have to be 411 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: pains after that, and he was diagnosed by a doctor 412 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: that should go straight to a hospital, but he had 413 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: a big show that night, so he didn't end up 414 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: getting to the hospital for a couple of days. And 415 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: by that stage the appendix a burst and while they 416 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: were removed, he did die of that. So it was 417 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 2: a fairly tragic end. And if he'd only had the 418 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: treatment when he was advised to, he quite possibly would 419 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 2: have lived on and. 420 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 3: Andrew, I believe that you've got a review of his 421 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: first stage show here in Melbourne. Can you tell us 422 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: about that? 423 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yes, see the Argust gave quite a lengthy review. 424 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 2: So the first start shows I think on the about 425 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 2: the ninth of February nine hundred and ten at the 426 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: Opera House, so a big you know, several thousand people there. 427 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: What they did say is that he was built as 428 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: a handcuff king, although not so much in Australia. In 429 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 2: Australia he tended to be built as a great mystery 430 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: arch and they talked about the most undoubtedly the greatest 431 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: and most sensational act that had ever been engaged for 432 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 2: Australia by any manager. But he had been personally known 433 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: as the handcuff king. But they do remark that there 434 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 2: wasn't one solitary handcuff in sight. They do then go 435 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: on to describe the show, and they talk about him 436 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 2: taking eleven minutes of wrenching with the strait jacket to 437 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: get out to get sufficient play, and they talk about 438 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: how he had invited a gentleman from the audience to 439 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: come up and time in knots, and. 440 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: He got out of those very easily. 441 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: But one of the things I do say is that 442 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: the audience was warmly inclined, but seemed to think that 443 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: an encore trick should have been added. Had Whodini's shown 444 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 2: them some simple handcuff trick, they would no doubt have 445 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: been satisfied. The turn is an excellent one and should 446 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: draw full houses. So that was the first show, and 447 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: it might have been a little bit shorter than the 448 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: later shows because later on, of course, he was asking 449 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: for people to come up with tricks that might misterfin 450 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 2: him and mystify the audience, and so that would have 451 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 2: extended the shows. So he had tricks as a say, 452 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: like being secured in a box by carpenters but secured 453 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 2: by ropes by sailors. You know, we're using sailor knots. 454 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: He did have some absurd things suggested to him that, 455 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: of course he didn't do. Somebody wrote in and suggested 456 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: that he should put a gun in his mouth and 457 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 2: fire the bullet and then somehow escape. 458 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: So quite clearly he wasn't going to do that. 459 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: But I think his shows were probably more extended as 460 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: he went on with the Australian tour, as he took 461 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: on some of these quite interesting challenges that were thrown 462 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: at him. 463 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: As I say, later in life. 464 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 2: His shows went for much longer as he went back 465 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: to incorporating magic tricks and card tricks. But in this 466 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: show in Melbourne he had quite a few people who 467 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: were supporting him. There is the Australian Datos, who I 468 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: think were sort of an acrobatic trick, and the will 469 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 2: Brothers who were apparently the most sensational acrobatic act in 470 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: the world, and they had Fred Curran, the quaint comedian, 471 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: who was an English comedian who was in Australia, so he. 472 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: Had a number of other performers supporting him. 473 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: So even though he was only on stage for twenty 474 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 2: minutes or so, it would have been a performance that 475 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: went for, you know, well over an hour. I would 476 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: think possibly two hours, and. 477 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 3: I suppose just to finish it off. I guess when 478 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: you consider that today's kids know the name Hudini, and 479 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 3: he's so famous among today's children, and when you realize 480 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 3: that the word Hudini is just used as a word, 481 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 3: you know, as in he's done a Houdini. Yeah, we 482 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: can be pretty confident that in another fifty years or 483 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: one hundred years he's still going to be just as 484 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 3: famous as he is today. 485 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: I think. So. 486 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: I think his words in his names in the dictionary now. 487 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: So I think it's just you know, you could look 488 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 2: up any paper. I mean, I did a thing on 489 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: one of our databases that has papers small over the world, 490 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 2: but there are for the last three or six months 491 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: or so, and there was like fifty thousand hits for 492 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: the word who DONI, and a lot of them are 493 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: to do with somebody you know, might be a prisoner escaping. 494 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: It might be somebody escaping from a fire or something 495 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: like that. Often it's to do with a great comeback 496 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 2: in football. There's often sporting references to it where someone, 497 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the Matilda's today actually came back 498 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: from three goals to kneel down to win four to 499 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: three in the Olympics. And I suspect that there will 500 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: be who DONI mentioned in some of the reports of 501 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: that that they've done a who DONI act to escape 502 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: from such a perilous situation. 503 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing the story of 504 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: who Deni with us today and particularly who Deanie's time 505 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 3: in Australia and those incredible, those incredible feats in Melbourne. 506 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for sharing your time with us today as well, Andrew. 507 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: Thanks very much. 508 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 2: Jen, it's been a lot of fun and he was 509 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: certainly a really fascinating character. 510 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the very last episode of In 511 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 3: Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's forgotten characters, 512 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 3: written and hosted by me Jen Kelly. While it's sad 513 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 3: to say goodbye, it's been a huge privilege to host 514 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 3: this podcast for the past five years and almost two 515 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty episodes. We feel immensely proud to have 516 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 3: been able to bring to life hidden stories from Australia's past. 517 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 3: A few thank yous now to the podcast's producer, John 518 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 3: ty Burton, who has guided it from day one with 519 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: his loving care and endless wisdom. To my great friend 520 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 3: and former colleague Alissa Hunt for the original idea which 521 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 3: was only ever supposed to be a four episode mini 522 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: series until it became an instant hit. To our talented 523 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 3: editors Harry Hughes and his predecessors, To all the wonderful historians, authors, 524 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 3: tour guides and experts who have shared their wealth of 525 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: knowledge and proved that history education need never be dull, 526 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 3: and most of all, sincere thanks to you the listeners 527 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: for tuning in, especially those who've left a rating or 528 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: a review. Your kind words are greatly appreciated and we 529 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: feel so proud that this podcast has maintained such strong 530 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: and consistent ratings for five years. You'll continue to find 531 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 3: all the stories and photos associated with our episodes at 532 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 3: Heraldsun dot com dot au. Slashaw and I hope you'll 533 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 3: continue to enjoy the back catalog for years to come. 534 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 3: As for me, after hosting the podcast for five years 535 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 3: and editing the In Black and White column for nine years, 536 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 3: I've decided to leave The Herald Sun after twenty six 537 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: years in search of new challenges, but hosting In Black 538 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: and White has been one of the highlights of my career. 539 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 3: So I thank you from the bottom of my heart 540 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 3: and wish you all the best.