1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hi, my Boris, and this is straight Talk Rownox. Welcome 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: to straight Talk. 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me on the podcast. 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: You know it's I'm one of your constituents and I've 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: been driving around for maybe I've been driving around forever, 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: but I've been driving around the last two months and 7 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: I see this photograph of you everywhere alongside others. Yeah. Yeah, 8 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm thinking about the battle that you 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: are currently engaged in trying to win back the seat 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: for the Liberal Party, and I thought to myself, I 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: don't really know this person. I've known previous sitting candidates 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: are sitting members for the area, and I thought it 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: would be good to get you on to talk to 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: Rowe Knox and ask her about herself. And I mean, 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: I could have googled you, I guess, but this is 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: our Google. 17 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: Yah. 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: So uh Liberal candidate for wentworth a high they regarded 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: long standing until a more recently liberal seat for all 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: the obvious reasons. We're all lucky enough to live in 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: a what would be considered socioeconomically to be a high 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: number in terms of representation of wealth in the country. 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: Not all of us grew up there or went to 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: school there, but Nonetheless, we're living there, and so we're 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: sort of lucky and very blessed, and most of us 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: have a fair bit of gratitude for that, and we 27 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: shouldn't expect it to be a liberalcy just by virtue 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: of that, and it isn't at the moment. It belongs 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: to the Teals. And I thought, let's start there. You're 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: in politics, you understand this game better than I do. 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: Why are they called teals? 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: So? I think the concept behind teals was to say 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: that they're liberals, but they also have grain policies. They're 34 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: blue and grain together. But teal is actually a dark 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: grain in your viewer, I get it, and I think 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: actually the definition is it is actually dark grain. Yes, 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 2: if we go full Panton, it's actually dark, it's actually 38 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: dark gray. 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: That's quite clever. 40 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: Yes. 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: And a Legra Spender, who's your opposition. She's a city 42 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: member for went Worth, and we will ask I will 43 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: ash them. I'm just a define went with for a moment. Yes, 44 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: but she's about as liberal as I can imagine as 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: in terms of her how she grew up. Her mother 46 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: was Carla Zempatty. Her father was John Spender, the Attorney 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: General for New South Wales state government liberal. You know, 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: a wealthy family. Imagine she grew up in sort of 49 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: the best possible conditions, yet she becomes an independent and 50 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: forms part of this till group. Can you explain to 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: your constituents why does someone do that? I mean, what's 52 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: the deal? Right way? 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I don't really understand the motivation because I'm 54 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: always a person that if you want to change something, 55 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 2: you've got to do it from inside. And you know, 56 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: I also worked in New York for a long time 57 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: and culture change can happen at organizations, but you've got 58 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: to do it from the inside. I think the view 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: was she wanted to do something that was going to 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: make a big sort of media splash, which of course 61 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: it did. And I think the great thing about being 62 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: an independent is not accountable, so you don't actually ever 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: have to deliver anything. 64 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: You don't have a party to talk to. 65 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: You don't have a party to talk to. But you 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: also don't really have to deliver fe your constituents because 67 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: you can just say I'm working across the floor, I'm 68 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: voting on issues that are important to our community without 69 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: actually having to stand up and have a piece of 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: legislation that goes through the parliament. So the Teals haven't 71 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: had one private members bill that's been put through the parliament, 72 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: not one, not one, And I would have thought sort 73 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: of a key KPI of a member of Parliament is 74 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: to have legislation put through, so not one has been 75 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: put through. So I think it's quite appealing in some 76 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: ways because you can also promise everything. You don't have 77 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: to get anything costed out by Treasury. You don't have 78 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: to then actually put it into the budget and get 79 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: it delive it. And I think that that's quite appealing 80 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: sort of space to be in the world that we're 81 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: in at the moment, which is so driven by marketing 82 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: and talking and not actual delivery. 83 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: On her strap line, it says your values, your voice, 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: But I guess people are voting for a candidate like 85 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: that would like to know what her valiers are and 86 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: for her to use her voice to pursue her values 87 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: and hopefully hopefully her values are equivalent or somewhat similar 88 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: to mine. What are the values of these this mob 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: like I've never really found out. 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's very hard to exactly tell, 91 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: but if we can maybe one indicator sort of voting 92 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: records so on legislation, which I always think is the 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: way of measuring MPs. Allegra's voted seventy one percent of 94 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: the time with Labor, seventy percent of the time with Greens, 95 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: and twenty seven percent of the time with the Coalition. 96 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: So if you look at that sort of mix, that 97 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 2: feels very much more like values that are more aligned 98 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: with the Labor and Greens Party than with the Liberal Party. 99 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: Is that the reason they don't actually get up and 100 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: say what their values are. 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's easy just to have these big 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: sort of motherhood and apple pie sort of statements. It's 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: much easier than saying this is what I stand for. 104 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: You know, this is what I'm going to deliver. I 105 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: think if you just speak in very broad statements. I 106 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: also find it quite interesting a lot of Tail voters 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: that I talk to, they're all about their own values 108 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: and they want their own values presented. And I actually 109 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: have a real problem with that because I think your 110 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: member of parliament, of course they must advocate for the community, 111 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: but they should also be thinking much more broadly about Australia. 112 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: They've got a spot at the table to help the 113 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: whole country. And I don't think it should just be 114 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: representing voice of a very small number of people. I 115 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: don't think that's the right way to be a member 116 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: of parliament. 117 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: That's very interesting, and that's another bout allegra. I now 118 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: I want to talk about Roxy. I've often wondered what 119 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: row stands. Was it Rowena? 120 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: It's actually Roane Roan. So my parents both had very 121 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: strong views on which name they'd come up for, and 122 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: then they just I think one was probably exhausted and 123 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: so they just put together this name. And I have 124 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: never been called I hardly ever get called Rowan. 125 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard that name, that Rowanne. 126 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: No, I think it's a bit of a made up name. 127 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: It is naturally a very nasty industrial town in France, 128 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 2: so maybe they didn't quite check that at the time. 129 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: But I never get over there, get called Roe or Rowan, 130 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: never get called Roan. 131 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: So let's a little bit of a trip. Now, So 132 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: where did you talk about your parents? 133 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? 134 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: Where did you grow up? What'd your parents do? 135 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: Yees? So I grew up on the Mornington Peninsula, but 136 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: mum and dad are actually both from New South Wales. 137 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: That's okay. I'm not a Victorian strictly, and Dad was 138 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: an engineer who started his own company, so very much 139 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: a small business owner which became a big business. And 140 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: obviously at that time when he was building the business, 141 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: they were fighting the union, so that was sort of 142 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: part of my DNA, this we should have freedom of enterprise. 143 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: I always remember Dad talking about that. And Mum was 144 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: a physio. She's half Swedish, so her mother's family were 145 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: all Swedish, So Marke if you can imagine a lot 146 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: of sport, a lot of fish, a lot of health, 147 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: and a very warm I had a very warm upbringing. 148 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: But mum also has a very still yearly core so 149 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: and I think some of that yearly strong pace has 150 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: been really, really helpful during this campaign. 151 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna. I asked about the campaign a 152 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: little bit later actually, because I'm always I'm always constantly 153 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: thinking to myself, I wonder if they knew what they 154 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: were getting themselves into, because it looks like it's been 155 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: pretty hectic for everybody. But have you got brother and sisters. 156 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: I do have a brother who I'm very close to. 157 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: He's a school principal in Melbourne, and my kids always 158 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: joked that he's clearly the favorite child because he's just 159 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: so he's one of those people that's ridiculously good at everything, 160 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: more annoying, sickening, and he's also really nice guards very annoying. 161 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: It's not my brother. He's good. My younger brother is 162 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: good at everything. 163 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: It's very annoying, very frustrating, good. 164 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: Good at Taller than me, better swimmer than me, better 165 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: student than me, better everything. Ever. But I got the 166 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: wood on him because I'm older than him, so I'm 167 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: actually that's that's the only thing. And he's still he 168 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: still looks at me as his older brother. Yeah right, 169 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: So where'd you go to school down there? 170 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: So? I went to Atte College in mental As and 171 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: I was head of my school down there, and it 172 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: was great. It was great childhood. The beach is down there, 173 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: obviously a lot colder than up here, but we mom 174 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: and dad had a beach house up a crescent Head 175 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: on the central coast present Head. 176 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 177 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, we spent I spent a huge amount of time 178 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: up there. That was my whole childhood. They actually just 179 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: sold it a couple of years ago because I thought 180 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: they couldn't. 181 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: Quite make the drive now from Melbourne too. 182 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: From Melbourne, yeah, it's a. 183 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Bit of a drive from Melbourne, but not too bad 184 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: from Sydney. 185 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: I know it's and now with the roads so much better. 186 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, the road is. And where do you live in Sydney. 187 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: We're living We've been in Pennington for over twenty years. Yeah, 188 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: so we love it. 189 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: So you're married. 190 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: I am married to John. We actually met at university 191 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: and we actually started going out because he was one 192 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: of the only people at college that didn't like me, 193 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: and I was in treat. I was completely treat. So 194 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,119 Speaker 2: he was very much the sporty, hardcore boy kind of contingent. 195 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: So you played hard to get Yeah, well I think so. 196 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: I think so, But. 197 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: I'd like to get his story from So you went 198 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: through school. What were you like as a student? 199 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: Look, I was pretty big personality, but I was also 200 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 2: I was a hard worker and I loved the academic 201 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: side of I love the academic side of school. So yeah, 202 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: I loved it. But I was also definitely not the 203 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: teacher's pet. 204 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: I would say in that was it a girls school? 205 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: It was an all girls school. 206 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: Does that mean you spoke your mind? 207 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: I did speak my mind, but I think also a 208 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: little bit of class clown actually, mark a lot of 209 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 2: easy jokes from the. 210 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: Back, you know, the back rode. Well, that's been interesting 211 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: to have a politician who can actually pull off a 212 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: good joke. There's nothing so leaving school, what happened that? 213 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: So then I went to Melburene University. I did a 214 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: lord great at Melbourne University and an arts degree because 215 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: we used to do them. To hear that, yeah, yeah, 216 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 2: so you don't how they used to do that? Combine 217 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: and I went to Ormond College, whereas chairman of the 218 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: Ormand College Students Club, was the second female chair of that. 219 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: So people always say, oh, this politic stuff must be 220 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: really hard. Try living with people, you know, because at 221 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: college some of the things we had to behaviorally put 222 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: in place, and you're living with people. But that was 223 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: absolutely fantastic and I'm still my closest friends still come 224 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: from that time. 225 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: See what you come out of university with an arsenal degree, 226 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: did you? I don't know what they do down Victoria, 227 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: but I presume that the College of Law down there, 228 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: the College and Knowledge. After the university. 229 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: I'd actually been to Israel as part of my law 230 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: degree because Melbourne University used to have an exchange and 231 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: I sort of fancied myself as a very glamorous international lawyer, 232 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: as in humanitarian or international law, and I thought I'd 233 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: maybe go and work in the hard or be around 234 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: Europe just loving at and so I went to Israel. 235 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: But it was that time in Israel where it was 236 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: all about entrepreneurship. So they just started this amazing Yachtsam 237 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: fund and it was all about innovation, and the whole 238 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: campus was saying, why would you go? I can do law, 239 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: go and do business. So I finished my Lord Agree, 240 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: and then went straight into management consulting. 241 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: So did you work for one of the management I did. 242 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: And my first project was actually in Chicago, and as 243 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: my mum said, that is a bit of a community, 244 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: which it was. So then after Chicago John who was 245 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: my boyfriend at the time, and I moved to New 246 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: York and then I worked with Deloitte Consulting in their 247 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: strategy group in New York. 248 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: Are you worth with Deloitte's Yes, So that's interesting, Angus 249 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: Tana's some somewhat of a similar story to you in 250 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: some respects in terms of managed consultant. For those people 251 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: who don't quite live in that world, what are those 252 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, the boss consulting group Deloitt's, et cetera. What 253 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: do they do when it comes to manage consults? What's 254 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: that mean? 255 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it can be somewhat of an esoteric concept. 256 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: So I arrived in New York in ninety eight, so 257 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: it was all about the gross story. So all the 258 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 2: financial services organizations were trying to deal with this thing 259 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: called the Internet. They're trying to make sure that their 260 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: staff are really motivated, they're launching new products. And then, 261 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: of course by two thousand, every project I was doing 262 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: was all cost cunning, like how can we get rid 263 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: of all those stuff? And it completely? And then obviously 264 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: was September eleventh, there was and in the US that 265 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: was a massive, massive recession, particularly in financial services. 266 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. So but in terms of skills, what are you 267 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: going to bring to work? Skills? What are you going 268 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: to bring to parliament? So what are the sort of 269 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: things you would learn? 270 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: So do you one hundred percent understand how businesses work? 271 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 2: And then I went from there to start a small 272 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: VC firm where we were backing startups, mention capitalists. Yes, 273 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: and it was very small numbers, so we're sort of 274 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: between angel investors and Series A and would go in 275 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: and actually run the company. But I think for management consulting, 276 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: you learn the discipline, You learn the riger around financial 277 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 2: modeling and what businesses work and what don't. And you 278 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 2: also have to be a super super quick study because 279 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 2: the clients are expecting good advice from you, and you 280 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: have to be able to learn their. 281 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: Business very quickly and work long hours. 282 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: Extraordinarily long hours. And I used to wear crazy hours 283 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: in New York. But with the guy who is the 284 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: managing director of the office, when you had your very 285 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: academic interview with him, he'd also take you for a 286 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: drink and you didn't get the job unless he sort 287 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: of liked you. So the culture he created was extraordinary. 288 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: So I used to I loved going to work. We 289 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: had a great We had a great time. 290 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: And with a venture capital business, that is a fund, 291 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: that's someone who's raised money to invest in your case, 292 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: you're to about startups or early stage, pre seed, seed, 293 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: et cetera. What types of this in America? 294 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, it was all US based, right. 295 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: So what sort of businesses were you were you sort 296 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: of tending towards because I enough to take Burma to 297 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: start up again, or what was going on in those 298 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: or where the you know, the so called Internet of 299 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: things had kicked off and everyone was talking about that 300 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: in terms of sensory stuff. Where were you guys concentrating 301 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: your efforts on. 302 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'd all come from the financial services strategy groups, 303 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: so all our first businesses were all around financial services. 304 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 2: So this is really going to age me Mark. But 305 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: we had a debit card for kids, and this was 306 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: when debit cards were just coming out, and it was 307 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: called my Plash, my plastic Cash, and the idea was 308 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: then the parents could load money onto the card, but 309 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: it was capped. And the reason why we did that 310 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: is one of our friends was a partner and his 311 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: daughter had taken this good only happened in Manhattan, had 312 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 2: taken his black ames with no limit on it. So 313 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: that was sort of the genesis of the idea, and 314 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: we were we had the biggest market share that business, 315 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: and it was one of the first businesses. And now they 316 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: still have Spriggy and things that still those businesses are 317 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: still existing. 318 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: What do you learn What are some of the skills 319 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: that you get out of being involved in those environments 320 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: in the including the manager consultancy, but importantly into the 321 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: venture capitalist environment where you've got like small business people 322 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: who sort of come up with a great idea, but 323 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: they've got no money, and then it gets some capital 324 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: to bring this thing to life. And what are the 325 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: sort of things you learned that might be relevant to 326 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: why someone should vote for you, for example? 327 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: So I think the biggest one you learn, as you know, 328 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: is you can have absolutely zero arrogance because the ideas 329 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: on the as good as it's how hard you work. 330 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: And I think the second thing that I really really 331 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: learned in that space, which is why I find the 332 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: whole tier value proposition very problematic, is where you used 333 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: to say to some of our entrepreneurs, you know, rowe 334 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: has fifty ideas, when she's brushing your teeth, it doesn't 335 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: matter what can we execute? And I really really learned 336 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: the value of execution. And then the other thing is, 337 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: as you would know, when you're at that seed stage, 338 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: you're actually investing in the entrepreneur, So you're investing in 339 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: the person. And so I also am a very very 340 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: good charge of character and I learned a lot around that, 341 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: and not to do business with people that don't have 342 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: anything to lose. You've always got to be high integrity. 343 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: Your word has to mean something otherwise people don't want 344 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: to do business with you, they won't give you money, 345 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 2: and obviously learn how to work like crazy. And I 346 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: think they're all. I think they're all very important. 347 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good one too, that being 348 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: able to judge someone's character. But also these startups are 349 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: using someone else's money, so to some extent that you've 350 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: got to make a judgment as to whether or not 351 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: do they actually perceive there's any downside and what is 352 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: the downside that they're concerned about, that they'll work hard 353 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: towards not happening. And that sort of judgment is a 354 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: hard one. That's a tough judgment in parliament, in government 355 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: or not government. You know in government, you're in parliament. 356 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: In parliament, do you come across those sorts of characters? 357 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: Do you think you'll come across those sorts of characters 358 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: who have got nothing to lose and therefore don't care. 359 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think totally. And I also think that's why 360 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: business backgrounds so important. So just on this campaign, I 361 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: always say to the team, any piece of money that 362 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: we've raised, someone's earned two dollars. They've earned two dollars 363 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 2: that's exactly right to give us, to give us the 364 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: one dollar, and I think that's something that should be 365 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: in the mindset of every single person that's sitting in 366 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: Parliament any of these budget try things. You're taking money 367 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: from really hard working Australian so you b to b 368 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: spending it in the most effective way possible. 369 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: That's a point that's sort of been sort of griping 370 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: on me a little bit. So when I see the 371 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: cash splash, that's sort of been second nature to the 372 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: campaign that started, well, the campaign that wasn't announced but 373 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: definitely started in January, but it was announced much later 374 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: than that. The amount of money of us being thrown around. 375 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: As a person who comes from your background, what do 376 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: you think of that? 377 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 2: I think it's really bad. And I'm really because it's 378 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: the young people that are going to bear the brunt 379 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: of that debt, and some of the numbers are they're 380 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: going to have a trillion dollar debt if they keep 381 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: spending like this. I think it's four hundred and twenty 382 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: five billion they've already spent over the period in government 383 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: and then in future commitments, And to me, that's that's very, 384 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: very serious to have that sort of debt level, and 385 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 2: also just the lack of analytical examination of where that 386 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: money is going. And I think that's the management consultant 387 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: part of me, that they're just throwing money at things. 388 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: Nothing's means tested. So we're not even giving some of 389 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: this money to the people that need it the most. 390 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: For example, the electricity rebate has been given to everyone. 391 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: You're getting it. I'm getting it. 392 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: If you've got ten houses, you're getting it. 393 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: You're still getting it. Yes, I mean you're saying in 394 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: terms of that being an idea, the execution of the 395 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: idea is not very good because it should probably should 396 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: be restricted to just one one group. Well, one group 397 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: maybe perhaps should get more, that's exactly right, and the 398 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: other groups should get less or. 399 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: Maybe even more. Fundamentally, why do we deal with why 400 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: the energy costs have gone up so much? Let's deal 401 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: with the problem instead of dealing with sort of the 402 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 2: symptom and throwing money at the symptom. 403 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: So you talk just mentioned something quite interesting that you know, 404 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: what would be the assumed levels of debt that are 405 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: going to come forward over the next period. And one 406 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: thing is for sure, I think even the Labor Party 407 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: would admit this and they did talk about it. They've 408 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: had two years of surpluses, but now they're going to 409 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: have ten years of deficits. And definite is going to 410 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: be funded from somewhere either taxpayer is going to have 411 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: to pay more tax or they have to borrow the money. 412 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: And it looks like they haven't said that they're going 413 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: to get that yet, but under the current government it's 414 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: more likely they're going to have to probably some combination 415 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: of the two. We don't know whether they're going to 416 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: implose more taxes on the community, but we'll soon see, 417 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: I guess. 418 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: And capital is certainly not cheap at the moment, and. 419 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: Capital is very expensive. If one of the things you 420 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: might be able to explain to our listeners is I 421 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: saw and you come from this world. I saw some 422 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: reference to stand and Pause looking at Australia's triple A rating. 423 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: So just so, just to be clear, Australia has a 424 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: triple triple A rating, as does you say, credit rating, 425 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: which is rated by independent rating agencies, one of which 426 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: is called Stand and Pause. Their global organizations. These things 427 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: are these decisions are made after long, hard examination of 428 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: the finances of the country and a lot of people 429 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: in our electric might say, well, who gives a damn? Well, 430 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: maybe you will give a damn if you understand the 431 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: consequences of losing a triple AID rating as a result 432 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: of borrowing too much money. 433 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: Exactly, and then borrowing becomes a lot more expensive, And. 434 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: As a result of losing the triple A rating, the 435 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: cost of money to the government and to the country 436 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: exactly becomes much more expensive. Absolutely, And it doesn't take 437 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: much to tick up a lot of ongoing interest extra 438 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: interest rate which sometimes can end up getting compounded, and 439 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: your debt just gets greater and greater and greater. It's 440 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: a bit of like if you go and buy a 441 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: house and the bank lends it to it five percent, 442 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, for some reason, they 443 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: don't think you're very good credit. Your credit rating goes down, 444 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: and they say, well, you're a bigger risk. I've got 445 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: to put your interest rate up. Yes, so as a person, 446 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: and therefore and you can't pay it. So you just 447 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 1: keep adding adding to the amount of money. Where As 448 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: someone comes out of this sort of world, what do 449 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: you think about the money that's getting thrown around this campaign? 450 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: In terms of the downside potential downsides for US, So 451 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: I think. 452 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 2: This huge downside by the sort of money that labor's 453 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: throwing out, and this, particularly the triple A credit rating 454 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: is so important and obviously when the Liberals were in 455 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: government for nine years, that credit rating was maintained, and 456 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 2: as you said, it has massive implications for the cost 457 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: of financing future debt and has massive implications for our 458 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: international standing. I also thought it was very disturbing that 459 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister criticized Standard and Pause today. He did, 460 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: and he said that they shouldn't be saying it, and 461 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 2: he was criticizing sort of a very neutral entity that 462 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: also has long standing in this space, and I think 463 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: that that also was pretty distressing that he was attacking 464 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 2: sort of an institution like Standard. 465 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: And Pause well, and they operate under the no fear, 466 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: no favor exactly. They're a global organization that can give 467 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: a damn who you are. 468 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: But also incredibly accredited and we should absolutely be listening 469 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 2: to them if they're concerned about they're concerned about this rating. 470 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: Because investors around the world, including Australia, rely on the 471 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: rating of the country that we might an investor might 472 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: be asked to invest in. So you might have some 473 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: mob in America. Who's you know, PIMCO one of the 474 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: big super fund managers over there. They're not called that 475 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: over there, but let's call them something like that. Who 476 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: If Australians to borrow money to fund deficits, they go 477 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: to the organizations like this, And PIMKO doesn't care how 478 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 1: good to talk of the prime ministers or how good 479 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: a talker doctor Jim is. They're interested in what's standing, 480 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: Paul say, because they live by ticking boxes to make 481 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: sure that the money is invested under into certain mandates. 482 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 2: Exactly, and by by design, those organizations are completely independent. 483 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: Their job is to give the credit rating. 484 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: Correct and then and that credit rating and then that 485 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: money gets priced favorably. We've been so lucky in Australia 486 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: for so long to have favorable ratings like triple A. 487 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: And I'm actually never really thought this through, like we 488 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: are having this conversation Tod either. But if you put 489 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: stand and Pau's offside as a result of running long, 490 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: long lasting deficits, you actually put every single tax payer 491 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: in the country at risk. That's exactly right, and it's 492 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: more likely that they're going to raise the money they 493 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: now need instead of borrowing it. They're going to put 494 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: taxes up because they will be seduced into thinking that. 495 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And I also think which we've seen 496 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: under this government, we haven't had growth in the economy, 497 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 2: and part of that is a reticence of multinationals to 498 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: invest and also local businesses to invest in the economy 499 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 2: because they perceive labor to be anti business And to me, 500 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: this is another indication of that. And if we lose 501 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: this credit rating, it's going to be even harder for 502 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 2: us to attract people to want to invest in Australian businesses. 503 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting you and I consider to have this conversation, 504 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: but do you think your constituency in Wentworth care or 505 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: would you want to say to them something that will 506 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: make them care? Do you think they care? Do you 507 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: think or do you think? What do you think? What 508 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: do you think voters today? I mean, I've just been 509 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: watching Australian behavior, Australian's behavior, and think about a lot 510 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: and you know, Peter Dutton's been getting hammered and a 511 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: lot of good stuff's coming out. But I wonder whether 512 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: Australians just get so confused they say, look, that's not 513 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: my problem. I've got my house. It's in walk Clues, 514 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: it's in Edgecliff. I don't have any data or a 515 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: little bit debt. I've got a pretty good job, unemployment's low. 516 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: I'm not at risk. It's like it's beyond me. I'm 517 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: not going to worry about this stuff. And do you 518 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: think they say that? And if so, maybe you might 519 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: never say why they should be thinking about these things, 520 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: why it is potentially a problem. 521 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: So I think also because it feels like a hypothetical, 522 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 2: so it's hard for voters to understand what the implication 523 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: of that's going to be. What else say though? In 524 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: Wentworth and I've spoken to thousands of people, everyone is 525 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 2: feeling cost of living pressures, without doubt, and that's right 526 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 2: across that's right across the seats, sort of in slightly 527 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 2: different ways because it's also quite a leverage stage. So 528 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: people do have mortgages. So the fact that sort of 529 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: the average mortgage has gone up by over fifty thousand 530 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 2: under this government with the interest rates, if you amplify 531 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: that into some of the bigger mortgages mortgage positions in Wentworth, 532 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: it's a big issue. So I think cost of living 533 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: is definitely a massive issue. It's whether people can then 534 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: understand that this is going to heighten that even further. 535 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 2: But small I would say small businesses in when we 536 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: certainly understand the implications of this, and so to entrepreneurs 537 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: because they're already saying access to capital has shrunk so 538 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: much under this government. 539 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: And it's interesting too, like most people don't realize even 540 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: though the governments will have to borrow or does borrow 541 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: from globally from overseas banks to too, of all banks 542 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: gets comes from overseas and those Australia's credit rating is 543 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: really important in terms of the cost of the money 544 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: to the banks and banks in this country because you know, 545 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: five banks control the joint banks, and those five banks 546 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: in this country will just pass that pass that extra 547 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: crossed on absolutely. 548 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: I think part of though labor understands this sugar heat 549 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: sort of strategy does work and when worth voters are 550 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 2: very sophisticated, but there is a there is a portion 551 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 2: of people that just think, oh, that's great, we're getting that, 552 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: and they're doing this and they're taking the hextead off 553 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: and they don't think about the implication of that further 554 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 2: down down the road. And I think that that's something 555 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: everyone needs to be thinking about if they're going into 556 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: the ballot box. 557 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: So something I can't I can't avoid talking about. But 558 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: for our area is of course the Israel Palestine issue. 559 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: And of course there was a large Jewish contingent in 560 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: our area. Yes it might imagine as big as anywhere 561 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: in Australia. What of you? What does row Knox and 562 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party want to say to that community. 563 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: So we actually have the biggest number of Jewish people 564 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: in our elect of any electorate in Australia. And I 565 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: obviously studied in Israel, as my children tell me very kindly, 566 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: in the early Middle Ages. Thanks kids. So, and I 567 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: was in Israel actually in December last year and met 568 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: with a whole series of startups which was incredible. They 569 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: have the most unbelievable startup ecosystem. It was great meeting 570 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: with them. And obviously also then going down to the 571 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: October seventh attacks on the Gaza envelope. So I've been 572 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 2: extraordinarily proud to be Liberal during this time. We've been 573 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: so consistent right from October seventh through to the rights 574 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 2: on the Opera House on October ninth. Peter Dutton then 575 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: was calling for national Cabinet and both a Legraspender and 576 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister at the time said it was stupid idea, 577 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: it was politicizing. There was no anti Semitism, and of 578 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 2: course we saw with when the guard rails got moved 579 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: and there was such weak leadership, that's when we saw 580 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 2: all this behavior. And obviously a lot in Wentworth had 581 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: fire bombs of cars, we had graffiti. We've had a 582 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: huge number of posters, my posters in particular this election 583 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 2: that have been graffetied with yeah, with Nazi symbols and wow, yeah, 584 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: I'm absolutely unprecedented amounts of those this election, and I 585 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 2: think there's no doubt the Jewish community in Wentworth have 586 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 2: felt abandoned. They also felt they were very very upset 587 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: by the fact that Ellegro Spender signed the letter to 588 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: restore the funding when Israel and twenty two countries around 589 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: the world had already said that they were physically involved 590 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: in the October seventh attacks. So the Jewish community very 591 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: much feels insecure at the moment. They're very very concerned 592 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: of the possibility of a Labour Greens minority government, extremely 593 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: concerned and I've been very proud to be a liberal 594 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: we've been so strong and even a couple of weeks ago, 595 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: Peter has signed on to Dunton has signed on to 596 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: the ecaj's fifteen point planned to counter anti Semitism and 597 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister's not going to do that. 598 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: So is that something that if lib will get into 599 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: that's something that they will will implement put into place. 600 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: Yes, and it sort of deals with anti semitism where 601 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: it lives. So university is national security arts organizations. And 602 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: also we have to not only be prosecuting people, We've 603 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: also going to be driving education and. 604 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: That's pretty important. So where does where does your area 605 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: extent to obviously goes from Okay, I'll leave it to 606 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: you tell me, I know, will you tell me? 607 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: So is Clavelli's sort of the border. We've actually now 608 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: got a piece of Ramwick which came from Kingsford Smith 609 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: and we've added So we've added this piece of Ramwick 610 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: and then we have Pott's Point, Willhemloo and darling Hurst. 611 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: So parts of Sydney have also come into the seat. 612 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: Very different environments. You've got to sort of look at 613 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of into Sydney. We do, Yeah, how 614 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: do you go there? Because generally speaking they don't go 615 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: liberal also probably don't go labor to some extent, they 616 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: do light the Greens, they do like. 617 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: The Grand So I'd say Ramwick's great for us. We've 618 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: got a lot of small business owners who are really 619 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: feeling the pain of this government of the last three years. 620 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 2: And because they're small business owners, so they're action focused. 621 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: So to them that teals proposition just doesn't make any 622 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 2: sense because they want to say what's actually happened, which 623 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: is obviously not a huge amount. And so that's a 624 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: great area for us. Pots points really good. We've got 625 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: a lot of empty nesters there, a lot of very 626 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: engaged members of the political very engaged in politics. In 627 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: Pot's point, will will lose actually fascinating. I've spent a lot, 628 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 2: quite a lot of time there, so there's a lot 629 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: of housing commission there and these are really hard working 630 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: people and to them they feel quite let out, their 631 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 2: traditional labor voters and they feel very let down. Or 632 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: speaking to a woman the other week who was working 633 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: three jobs so her daughter could go to Since you 634 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 2: near eleven and year twelve, and I mean, these are 635 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 2: the Australians we should be supporting. They should be rewarded 636 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: for working so hard, and I think we'll get quite 637 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: a few of those labor voters who want to come. 638 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: They're the sort of Howard's quintessential Australian battlers. And then 639 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 2: Darlinghurst is green and quite brutal. It is brutal, right, 640 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 2: it's pretty it's pretty brutal. 641 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you what I've asked all 642 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: the other politicians have been into this process. Why vote 643 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: for Ronox in the seed of Wentworth. 644 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? So I think in Wentworth we need real action. 645 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: I've obviously spent my whole career delivering businesses, delivering outcomes, 646 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: and that's very core to my DNA. I don't just 647 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: talk about things. I like to get things done. And 648 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 2: from my standpoint, for a seat like Wentworth, to have 649 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: sort of an adjacent politician who's not in the party room, 650 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: who's not influencing policy is a way to vote. And 651 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 2: that's why I think people have to vote liberal this 652 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: time in Wentworth. 653 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting a waste to vote. 654 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 2: I think it is because I think the tials off 655 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: running an agenda that haven't put one piece of legislation 656 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 2: through that haven't been able to influence the politics or 657 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 2: the policies of the day and to me, we should 658 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: absolutely given given the seat that we have, we should 659 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 2: absolutely be helping Australia be a better place to live. 660 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: Well, just following you now is going to be Peter Dutton, 661 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: and I have heard that he said that Ronox could 662 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: be someone who gets a ministerial position if he wins government. 663 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty exciting. 664 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 2: It does sound exciting. I have to say, Mark, I'm 665 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: not focused on that at all. It is such a battle. 666 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 2: We will need every single vote and I'm just so 667 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: focused on getting to Saturday and delivering this seat for 668 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: Peter Dunton. 669 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: Actually, well, good luck on the upcoming election on Saturday. 670 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: I guess you're up against it. You probably underdog in 671 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: this fight and it's going to be interesting to see 672 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: whether or not a Liberal gets back in to run 673 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: its constituency in the Seed of the Seed of Wentworth. 674 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me