Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: In part one of my sit down with Ierne Roberts,
Speaker 1: we talked about his football career, the discrimination he faced,
Speaker 1: and the pressures of coming out as a gay man.
Speaker 1: We're now going to talk about a very dark period
Speaker 1: in Then's life when Aaron Light, a young boy he
Speaker 1: cared for and helped, was brutally murdered and the guilt
Speaker 1: earned feels for what happened. And also told us about
Speaker 1: his time at Neither his acting career, his personal battles,
Speaker 1: and what he is doing to make the world a
Speaker 1: kind of place. This was a very raw and emotional
Speaker 1: discussion with a powerful message, that message being the importance
Speaker 1: of being true to yourself. I think Iran considers himself
Speaker 1: as an average man, but he found himself in extraordinary
Speaker 1: situations and he discovered who he is and I think
Speaker 1: has made the world a better place. Have a listen,
Speaker 1: then welcome back to I Catch Killers. You made it
Speaker 1: to part two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, are you sounding like that's that's that's a
Speaker 2: bar most people.
Speaker 1: You're doing doing well. Look in part one, I appreciate
Speaker 1: your openness and honesty about what you went through as
Speaker 1: a prominent, high profile one of the highest profile footballers
Speaker 1: in the country and then coming out gay and how
Speaker 1: that how that played out. I mentioned in part one
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about the murder of Aaron
Speaker 1: Light and this is I apologize there because I know
Speaker 1: it digs up some bad, heavy memory memories for you.
Speaker 1: Set the circumstances in terms of when Aaron came into
Speaker 1: your life. When did you first meet meet Aaron?
Speaker 2: It would have been about nine ninety I was living
Speaker 2: at Campadown, it was he was in the Camperdown Children's Hospital.
Speaker 2: I was to staying there on a visit. I thing
Speaker 2: we used to do. It was either eighty nine or nine,
Speaker 2: because I can't remember. I still have this day. I
Speaker 2: can't remember. It was with the house or with Manly
Speaker 2: and Aaron was in hospital. I was living in Campa Down.
Speaker 2: He was in the Campadown Children's Hospital there. He was
Speaker 2: about nine or nine or ten, and he'd been Yeah,
Speaker 2: he'd been in the hospital for quite a while and
Speaker 2: at that stage you had had complications with a knee injury.
Speaker 2: And he was in this medieval contraption that was there
Speaker 2: was pins going in like like it was.
Speaker 1: Just had attraction.
Speaker 2: It was it was uh and he was just this
Speaker 2: kid who was really cheeky, and I kind of like
Speaker 2: because he was so cheeky and and he wasn't a
Speaker 2: football supporter or rugby league supporter. He was just like
Speaker 2: it was just it was just this kid had a
Speaker 2: real sense of hearing with about him. He was steady
Speaker 2: criticizing us and bagging us and.
Speaker 1: This is you guys turn up as.
Speaker 2: Whatever. You know, it's one of those those footage. So
Speaker 2: he was giving it back to Yeah, but he was
Speaker 2: just like, what are you doing here? You're just doing
Speaker 2: it for the publicity. It was, and it was quite
Speaker 2: it was quite beyond his year, like he was quite sharp,
Speaker 2: you know. And then you won't come back here. It
Speaker 2: was something like that, you know, And I said, I
Speaker 2: live across the road. I'm just going to come back
Speaker 2: to you doing know.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was one of that, and that's kind of how
Speaker 2: our relationship started. I just he was in hospital. I
Speaker 2: couldn't tell you how long it was format for a
Speaker 2: long time. I had so many complications with his name,
Speaker 2: but I'm saying probably three or four months. I pop
Speaker 2: in every couple of weeks or whatever today, and we
Speaker 2: end up just becoming kind of friends. Yeah that sounds weird,
Speaker 2: but you know, yeah it was. It was. It was
Speaker 2: like it sounds. It was just ended up becoming a mate.
Speaker 2: He got out of hospital and he had my phone number.
Speaker 2: He'd ring up every so often say here are you
Speaker 2: going whatever? I suppose. In the next couple of years,
Speaker 2: I only saw him once. Maybe we went to the movie.
Speaker 2: I took him in the movies or something and his dad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then then I didn't see him again for a
Speaker 2: little while. Then what you was that must be ninety
Speaker 2: three ninety four. Bumped into him on the street. Ye,
Speaker 2: I was a friend of mine, my flatmate Kirsty, and
Speaker 2: he kind of just struck up a friendship again. He
Speaker 2: was he wasn't living at home, he was he said
Speaker 2: he was living in and around the cross across on Bondidi. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he was always he was always street wise. Like
Speaker 2: he bumped into him on the street and I took
Speaker 2: him to it to the game the next day, met
Speaker 2: him and his mate Elliott. I think his mate's name
Speaker 2: was Elliot Middle. He's also he disappeared as well, never
Speaker 2: been found. Yeah, and that's and then I don't know,
Speaker 2: like he stayed in touch, like he I was living
Speaker 2: in I was still living we're still living at camping
Speaker 2: down at that stage.
Speaker 1: And so did he he was about fifteen at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And did he move in with you guys?
Speaker 2: Eventually he did. It stayed like that. He'd come over
Speaker 2: once or twice a week at that stage. I used
Speaker 2: to tell me he used to make money from like
Speaker 2: like it sounds terrible, but like breaking into the cars
Speaker 2: and that type of thing and selling tape.
Speaker 1: And you you grew up around housing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the world. Yeah, I'm not here, not for me
Speaker 2: to judge like a fifteen year old kid. So yeah,
Speaker 2: what happened was one night he rang me. He was
Speaker 2: and he was very upset, and I just asked him
Speaker 2: where he was. He said he was in his squat
Speaker 2: Bond Eye. Went down to Bond Eye where he didn't
Speaker 2: say it was a squat. He said, he's hostel And
Speaker 2: it wasn't a hostel. It was just a squat, an
Speaker 2: old house. It was walking there. It was not good.
Speaker 2: It was really like it was just an old the house.
Speaker 2: Was it since been it was you know, it was
Speaker 2: pulled down, Yeah, demolished. He'd just been staying there and
Speaker 2: a couple of other young bikes. I just said, you know,
Speaker 2: grabey stuff and may come you come and stop with
Speaker 2: us for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We had a spare bedroom at that time. I was
Speaker 2: then with my in the Shane, Kirsty was in the
Speaker 2: other room and Aaron, So we kind of made a deal.
Speaker 2: Like he had been coming over like once or twice
Speaker 2: a week anyway, and Kirsty was looking after him, like
Speaker 2: cleaning his clothes.
Speaker 1: And providing base by the sound of it, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's anyway, and we just we kind of decided, you know,
Speaker 2: like you can stay here with us, you've got to
Speaker 2: go to school. That was the only thing. And you've
Speaker 2: got to you know, you got to reach out to
Speaker 2: your mo and dad and yeah, so that's what happened.
Speaker 2: It was good. Like the first few months he was
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, we were living at Campana and he
Speaker 2: wanted to go to walclous High. I don't know like why,
Speaker 2: but that's but he did. He got up every morning
Speaker 2: and caught a couple of butts, like and he was
Speaker 2: living a normal life.
Speaker 1: He was you thought I thought he was heading in
Speaker 1: the ro like he was good.
Speaker 2: Here's always his cheeky like me and him used to
Speaker 2: upstairs and where we were, we lived in a nice place.
Speaker 2: It was a pool like a lap pool upstairs. There
Speaker 2: was a tennis caught upstairs on the roof and Jim
Speaker 2: sauna like we mean, I trained with him every so often,
Speaker 2: like in the gym, and that I was. I was
Speaker 2: just his mate, like it was like he's I will
Speaker 2: say this, Aaron always had a problem with with authority.
Speaker 2: Didn't have much of an opinion of the police. He
Speaker 2: just absolutely was dead against the police. But I was
Speaker 2: you know, we used to make him bring his mom
Speaker 2: and dad, like I was probably like I can honestly,
Speaker 2: I can honestly say like one of the only males
Speaker 2: in his life that he respected, like love like love
Speaker 2: like it like yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Know it's probably hard for you talking about it on there,
Speaker 1: but there was there was a genuine affection and love
Speaker 1: between the whole group of you.
Speaker 2: He knew I was guy as well. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 2: other thing. And like he never had a problem with Shane.
Speaker 2: He was always like he was always totally respectful, like
Speaker 2: he was perfect, Like it was so respectful. He was
Speaker 2: like he used to tell me, you guys mates, your buddies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's exactly like it because we know we did.
Speaker 2: It's hard to explain, mate, Like we had spoken about
Speaker 2: the situation, what it might look like, you know, I meanly.
Speaker 1: His and look and I'll say it because it's part
Speaker 1: of your Your concern was that you've got a young
Speaker 1: kid living with you, You've come out as gay.
Speaker 2: That's why I wanted him to say in touch with
Speaker 2: his family, and I wanted them to know, like I
Speaker 2: speak to them occasionally.
Speaker 1: A genuine act of kindness for the high risk potentially.
Speaker 2: Could I just to be clear, honestly, it wasn't just
Speaker 2: an act of kindness. It wasn't about kindness. It's just
Speaker 2: this it was like with my friend. People like people
Speaker 2: really struggle to understand that, even the whole corners in case,
Speaker 2: like they struggled to understand it's like this young man
Speaker 2: is my friend. Like this young boy is my friend.
Speaker 2: Like it's like that was because I was at that stage.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I would have been nearly thirty twenty nine,
Speaker 2: and he was like fifth Like, people don't get that
Speaker 2: he was my friend. Yeah, I mean they quite in
Speaker 2: the true sense of the word mate my friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I think the way the way you were explaining,
Speaker 1: that's understandable, understandable. So it went then there was dramas
Speaker 1: that happened or did he go off the rails or start.
Speaker 2: To I had the police arn you one day and
Speaker 2: asked if they could come around and see me, and yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I asked him what it was about, They said, Aaron.
Speaker 2: And so when they came they told me what he
Speaker 2: had been involved in previously. They also said to me
Speaker 2: that they knew now he was like the house had
Speaker 2: been underlans. They were quite aware that he was going
Speaker 2: to school and all that. That was all shocked as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like more than just a shock, it was.
Speaker 1: And I was spinning because they basically said that he
Speaker 1: was caught up with in a pedophile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd been checked at pedophiles houses and that type
Speaker 2: of thing, and leading that was before he was living
Speaker 2: with us. That's how he'd been supporting himself.
Speaker 1: And put you in a difficult, potentially difficult position.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is where this becomes hard because I
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying, but I knew from I knew
Speaker 2: from them at that moment that was well, I was
Speaker 2: thinking about it like it was. I was worried about
Speaker 2: I just come out and all that, and just like
Speaker 2: people are going to surmise what they think has happened.
Speaker 2: And anyway, the police wanted me to bring it up
Speaker 2: with him and see if he'd make some statements against
Speaker 2: these people, because I've had other young kids who weren't
Speaker 2: willing to meet the statements and their parents.
Speaker 1: And I just put on record too here and that
Speaker 1: I know the police officer that was involved in it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, they've said that first they're looking at everyone
Speaker 1: with suspicion that's just the coop mentality, but they realize that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say that the police, a person that
Speaker 2: I was in touch with, he was absolute champion. But
Speaker 2: he's like, for as much as he could he put me,
Speaker 2: he just said, you know you are not a suspect.
Speaker 2: In the same we realized the reason we've come to
Speaker 2: you where he realizes Aaron trusts you and he's in
Speaker 2: a safe space here and he's been he's not been
Speaker 2: checked at those people's places ever since he's been living here,
Speaker 2: which is reassuring, but it's also not reassuring, you know.
Speaker 2: It's just like they asked me if I because I
Speaker 2: also knew that he had a real issue with authority
Speaker 2: and talking to police.
Speaker 1: And they asked you to help me to ask Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I I always say, it's giving my time over again,
Speaker 2: it was this. I would have done exactly the opposite
Speaker 2: to what I ended up doing. I said that I
Speaker 2: would talk to him because I didn't even know what
Speaker 2: I was thinking of that day. It was just like
Speaker 2: it was a blurt. It was almost like it's it's
Speaker 2: hard to explain my head being I just come out
Speaker 2: as this gay man. I was just like I can
Speaker 2: just see the newspapers.
Speaker 1: Now, I just understandable.
Speaker 2: I was just I was just getting ready to sign
Speaker 2: a contract to go to not just with News Limit,
Speaker 2: not with Super leg That wasn't the reason I went
Speaker 2: to Townsburg because it was as far away from Sydney
Speaker 2: as that. That's why I ended up going there anyway.
Speaker 2: So Aaron come, you know, police left, Aaron came home,
Speaker 2: told him and it's like one of those moments I
Speaker 2: just wish, knowing what I know now, I just wish
Speaker 2: that I said to the police officer that day, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to bring this up to He's in a
Speaker 2: safe space now that he's working.
Speaker 1: We're not going to destroy his life what you're carrying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just if I if I had said nothing
Speaker 2: to Aaron, I'm sure that the boy was he would
Speaker 2: still be alive.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I really wish that I just said, no, he's in
Speaker 2: a safe space now. He's good. You know. He and
Speaker 2: his mates would come around, and he had a girlfriend
Speaker 2: at one stage, like it was. It's really it was
Speaker 2: just going to things that he was really happy, like
Speaker 2: things are good, like he was just.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, he was just good kid, And
Speaker 1: what the feelings that you've got the regrets. Is that
Speaker 1: you the place wanted Jew to encourage him to give sentence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it says when he came home,
Speaker 2: I had that conversation. This finding is really difficult. It
Speaker 2: was the worse thing that was just it's it's talk
Speaker 2: about I don't know how to say regrets not a
Speaker 2: big enough word. But I just know now that I
Speaker 2: just I really read him, I really read him down,
Speaker 2: and like I feel like I've Yeah, at that moment,
Speaker 2: it's still like I thought I was okay with this,
Speaker 2: and I'm just talking about it. You know, it's just
Speaker 2: like I really let him down. I just from the
Speaker 2: person he trusted, He loved me, but he so respected me,
Speaker 2: care about me. Yeah, I just let him down. I just.
Speaker 1: Hindsight. You know, we're all wise with hindsight. I mean,
Speaker 1: in that situation, you're trusting the police. The police obviously
Speaker 1: trying to try and to do the right thing. It's
Speaker 1: a kids being caught up in a situation and they're
Speaker 1: trying to stop horrendous criminals. But yeah, you sit here
Speaker 1: in hindsight, who knows how it turns out? And I see,
Speaker 1: let me say this, I see a lot of people
Speaker 1: when the murders have happened and situations have happened, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of self blame for the people left behind.
Speaker 1: But look at what you're doing. You guys were helping
Speaker 1: helping him get his life in order, pointing him in
Speaker 1: the right direction. Come from friendship and care. So that's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I hear, and I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 2: But the truth, I mean, the absolute truth is I
Speaker 2: know the truth, and I just know that that wasn't
Speaker 2: that was that, that wasn't my my soul motivation in
Speaker 2: that point. It was terrified people that would jump to
Speaker 2: the wrong conclusion, right, Yeah, that was and that's what
Speaker 2: that's that's what hurts. I just knowing what I know
Speaker 2: now and how things are, just like I wouldn't give
Speaker 2: a fuck if everyone knew I thought I was like
Speaker 2: a pedophile. It sounds awful like he'd still be a
Speaker 2: lot like it. I don't even know how to explain it. Well,
Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, so.
Speaker 1: And I understand where you're coming from. And it's a
Speaker 1: heavy heart. I'm sitting here listening to you beat up
Speaker 1: on yourself yourself about it. And yeah, but also be
Speaker 1: kind to yourself that at that time perfectly understandable what
Speaker 1: you're going, what you were going going through that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary said, that set of circumstances you found
Speaker 1: yourself in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's I do know. That conversation with Aaron
Speaker 2: changed everything after that because he just he agreed to
Speaker 2: make statements and I went to Townsville. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: go out of Sydney. Yeah, he went downhill terribly, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah I wasn't there. Yeah, it's weird. I wasn't there,
Speaker 2: Like I just I just wanted to be away, not
Speaker 2: away from him. I was always thinking about him and
Speaker 2: caring about him, but I was just terrified of you know,
Speaker 2: I just turned up in Townsville. As they made me captain.
Speaker 2: I just started saying. Just prior to Aaron moving just
Speaker 2: after Aaron moved in, Shane and I had broken up. Sorry,
Speaker 2: that was just prior to Aaron moving in. And then
Speaker 2: just when I went to Townsville, I met another by
Speaker 2: then my partner then Andrew. Andrew and I staid together
Speaker 2: for six years and we're still best friends now. But
Speaker 2: I always felt, yeah, I wish I was being being
Speaker 2: clear and mate it is kind of weird.
Speaker 1: I think in the way you're articulating it, it's understandable,
Speaker 1: and I hear the heavy heart that you have with
Speaker 1: it and the emotions that come with it, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't change it. I can just but what I
Speaker 1: can say is an experience as a homicide detectively, there's
Speaker 1: not a murder I've seen where someone innocent that has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it blames themselves when it's all
Speaker 1: said and done. For those that don't know that, after
Speaker 1: you've moved up there, Aaron disappeared prior to giving evidence
Speaker 1: against the pedophiles, and his skills or remains were found
Speaker 1: not far from here at Saint Peter's.
Speaker 2: That's terrible, you know how they it's awful. Even the
Speaker 2: way they discovered that it was where they found out
Speaker 2: that they that it was Aaron's body his knee because
Speaker 2: he had such complications when I first meeting with his knee,
Speaker 2: his knee had become quite deformed. It was like a
Speaker 2: bulbous type of thing. Yeah, that's that's how they discovered
Speaker 2: it was Ara's body, the Bible's knee. They didn't know
Speaker 2: who it was at first.
Speaker 1: How how did you process the whole thing, like when
Speaker 1: you found out what had happened to him.
Speaker 2: He'd been like the last night. In fact, Aaron two
Speaker 2: was in nine ninety seven. I was just preparing for
Speaker 2: the member of the Try series that super leg used
Speaker 2: to have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was for the I think it.
Speaker 2: Was the second game and anyway, but I was just
Speaker 2: packing my bag, getting ready to leave Townsville to go
Speaker 2: into camp, and I got a phone call off a policement.
Speaker 2: Aaron had been arrested again for stealing, and he wouldn't
Speaker 2: talk to police. The only person who talked to was me,
Speaker 2: so they'd phone me up and put him on and
Speaker 2: I was trying to calm him down, but he was screaming.
Speaker 2: He was angry at me by that stage as well,
Speaker 2: like you know, which is quite entirely. He was so
Speaker 2: entitled to be that it just felt like he was alone.
Speaker 2: He was saying that stuff, and I just I was
Speaker 2: trying to convince him to to cooperate with with the police,
Speaker 2: and he was saying a lie that I put him
Speaker 2: in touch with. He disappeared three days later. That was it.
Speaker 2: Aaron's body was found in two thousand and two. God, ed, uh,
Speaker 2: it's just weird. It was just that was the last
Speaker 2: time I spoke to him. It was He's one of
Speaker 2: those moments. What he said, he was so spot on,
Speaker 2: like you know, I had so let him down, like
Speaker 2: he disappeared, Like I said, three, he just left the
Speaker 2: police station, disappeared. I supposed to give evidence three days later,
Speaker 2: never turned up in court.
Speaker 1: And the murder still unsolved. Yes, at this point they
Speaker 1: had an inquest. You got dragged into the inquest.
Speaker 2: The inquest was quite the process. And anyone who knows
Speaker 2: anybody the currents in quest knows that there are interested parties.
Speaker 2: You can ask your questions. Yes, a couple of those
Speaker 2: parties were pedophiles, well suspected what one of them was suspected,
Speaker 2: which is quite like intimidating the grubs. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know how else to say it, Mate, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just it is. It's kind of the whole error,
Speaker 2: not whole, the whole I nely I did it again,
Speaker 2: said the whole our experiences. It's just an experience in
Speaker 2: my life. It's just just you know, it's it's hard
Speaker 2: to explain, but it's you don't do the right thing
Speaker 2: because it's the right thing to do just do the
Speaker 2: right thing. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't do the right thing because it's the right
Speaker 2: thing to do. Just do the right thing. And it's
Speaker 2: one of those yeah consequences, you know, knock on effects.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a heavy burden to carry for you.
Speaker 1: And I hope you're not being too hard on yourself.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well you know, we're doing a we're actually
Speaker 2: like doing a docou on mate, which allows me to
Speaker 2: speak about it, but like in depth.
Speaker 1: And well I would be interested interested to say it
Speaker 1: when when it comes out, because I know.
Speaker 2: I've got to be honest. I thought I was this
Speaker 2: is the first time I spoken about it for a while.
Speaker 2: I thought I was ready to talk about but that
Speaker 2: was yeah, yeah, I actually like I feel that waist
Speaker 2: whatever that Yeah, maybe I'm I know.
Speaker 1: Not it's you don't get people say you can get
Speaker 1: closure from.
Speaker 2: But I just want to say he was such a
Speaker 2: good kid, mate. He was just you know, like every
Speaker 2: time that people speak about our tragic well, he was
Speaker 2: such a good kid. He was such a like a
Speaker 2: life lively, funny, cheek cheek the cheefest. Yeah, he was
Speaker 2: more of an adult than I was, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Like the fact and you see a lot of the
Speaker 1: kids around here in these type of areas in the
Speaker 1: Housing Commission are street wise. But I like the fact
Speaker 1: that the nine year old lay there in the hospital
Speaker 1: can give it to you, big tough footballers coming in
Speaker 1: and give you give your cheek. It says a lot
Speaker 1: about the character.
Speaker 2: Of the pr holl you know. But yeah, but he
Speaker 2: was just a good.
Speaker 1: Yes, well yeah, And I'm sure people have said, people
Speaker 1: smarter than I have said, well, good on you for
Speaker 1: making his life good for a period of period of time.
Speaker 2: And again I feel fortunate that I.
Speaker 1: Had a look at the case. Just what's on record,
Speaker 1: and it's still unsolved at this stage, we've unsolved and
Speaker 1: anyone that's got any information. And I saw some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that went on at the inquest. I had
Speaker 1: a bit of a look at that. And these convicted pedophiles,
Speaker 1: and I've seen convicted pedophiles give evidence at cranial inquest.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust a word they say. They'll give any
Speaker 1: any respect. They're despicable human beings. How has it changed
Speaker 1: you the way you look at life.
Speaker 2: It's just just about of respect and judgment and just
Speaker 2: like quality of life and just like I don't know,
Speaker 2: like it sounds dicky, mate, enjoy the small things man,
Speaker 2: you know, like like like just saying john Like like
Speaker 2: I can say to you now because you know Johnny,
Speaker 2: Like just saying Johnny the other day, Like make an
Speaker 2: effort to get out and see it, just see people
Speaker 2: see all like you know, like I have felt like
Speaker 2: as you get older, you know your close off. But
Speaker 2: for some reate like just being being being aware that
Speaker 2: like you're going to reach out to people, just say
Speaker 2: how they go you like, just like just stay in touch,
Speaker 2: Like it's simple things.
Speaker 1: I think you know, and we touch on Johnny and
Speaker 1: you're not the first person who won't be the last
Speaker 1: person that mentions him. I've had good guys, bad guys,
Speaker 1: everyone come through and the amount of influence. But you
Speaker 1: touch on something I hadn't really thought about with Johnny,
Speaker 1: the effort he does make to reach out to people.
Speaker 1: And he is always every day he's catching up with
Speaker 1: someone or he'll just find you out of the blue
Speaker 1: or whatever. And maybe that is part of the secret secret.
Speaker 2: To laugh It is as you get older, mate, as
Speaker 2: you like, particularly as you get all those like again,
Speaker 2: you're like, you know, when when I said this before,
Speaker 2: when you're twenty, you're never going to be sixty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: My mom's eighty five. But I just like we spoke
Speaker 2: of it before. Just my mom still has regrets in that,
Speaker 2: you know, like when I was talking about the way
Speaker 2: I came out and stuff like that. You know, it's
Speaker 2: like it's everything starts with a conversation, just like judgment,
Speaker 2: like just don't be so, don't be so to judge,
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, we've all got shit.
Speaker 1: Going on, and then no one, no one's perfect.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've heard all that before a thousand times.
Speaker 2: But I think as you get old, it's just like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm mad, I'm wealthy in you've got nothing
Speaker 2: to do with money. And that's how I feel, you know,
Speaker 2: like I can say that quite openly, Like particularly the
Speaker 2: last six months, and I bet the last six or
Speaker 2: twelve months, I've felt like I had this whole different
Speaker 2: like this this this awakening for me in life, and
Speaker 2: just like how precious, how wonderful it is. My relationships
Speaker 2: you know, with both my sisters, my brother and my mom,
Speaker 2: I like the best they've ever been. I like, but
Speaker 2: that that comes from making an effort and being aware that,
Speaker 2: Like you know, I have a wonderful relationship with my
Speaker 2: partner and my partners like family, his mom and his
Speaker 2: sister and her family.
Speaker 1: Like have you said those twenty years.
Speaker 2: Down in Bedianning nearly twenty years? Yeah, but I mean
Speaker 2: even that, like you know, like I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I but you know, my my my ex partners,
Speaker 2: like Andrew who we said, he's still in my life,
Speaker 2: like he's someone I still love and care for, Shame
Speaker 2: who passed away, like he was still in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that they're part of my family. And
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that my current partner, Dan feels like
Speaker 2: he realizes, you know, that they're part of that part
Speaker 2: of our family. I'm really grateful.
Speaker 1: Well, you've done done well to get that, because there's
Speaker 1: so many people that don't have that type of situation.
Speaker 1: But if you've spent some time with people in a relationship,
Speaker 1: it's sad if it goes sour, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean I get things. Do you go so and all that,
Speaker 2: you know, And again I'm not judging anyway, but I'm
Speaker 2: just like I just I you know, I'm really grateful
Speaker 2: for Andrew, because if I don't meet Andrew, I don't
Speaker 2: meet Daniel, you know, like not but not only for
Speaker 2: that reason, but you can think of it. I've been
Speaker 2: very fortunate, mate.
Speaker 1: Okay, a period of time that you've described as your
Speaker 1: most content is when you went to Neither. So tell
Speaker 1: us about that experience.
Speaker 2: I loved it, mate, Like I Like I said, I
Speaker 2: was always a show off as a kid. I was.
Speaker 2: I used to love getting that there and and showing
Speaker 2: off and running. I used to think I could. I
Speaker 2: can't dance. Well that's not true.
Speaker 1: Actually I'm checking the nights Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 2: I made the final mate always a bridesmaid, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I was runner up. It was great, mate, it was
Speaker 2: like I was. I was terrible, man, it was like,
Speaker 2: but it was so much fun. Natalie Natalie Laye was
Speaker 2: my partner, and that we had such a wonderful relate,
Speaker 2: like just a really good friendship. And we started training
Speaker 2: for that, like it's kind of a weird process. The
Speaker 2: show runs runs for ten weeks, and we started training
Speaker 2: back for that about about six weeks before the first episode.
Speaker 2: And like I but again, it was a bit like
Speaker 2: I've been through anighted by that stage, and I kind
Speaker 2: of realized the art sort of thing. Sometimes you just
Speaker 2: got to let things get into your body. And that's
Speaker 2: what dancing is. You got to let it get into
Speaker 2: your body. It's not you know, left foot right, foot
Speaker 2: foot left or when if you're doing that, you're not dancing, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, you just go of the flat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it took me a while to understand that too.
Speaker 2: And then about about seven weeks into the run of
Speaker 2: the show, so you know, I've now been dancing with
Speaker 2: nat for the third eight weeks and she was like
Speaker 2: Australian champion, she'd been world champion. She was wonderful and
Speaker 2: she was so patient with me. Is when I get
Speaker 2: I had one of those moments, I said, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I said when I was playing footy. Sometimes
Speaker 2: you get into it. You had those stages in your
Speaker 2: career where's supremely confident, you're in in that flow whatever.
Speaker 2: You know. I've had those stages. You know, I've had
Speaker 2: those moments on stage as well. When you think, oh,
Speaker 2: I get it, I'm making everything, she kind of opens
Speaker 2: up and like, I get it, I get what we're doing.
Speaker 2: The same thing with the dancing thing. Like thirteen weeks
Speaker 2: in we were doing the chacha. No it was a tango.
Speaker 2: It was a tango, and I just remember like I
Speaker 2: was just and it just kind of dropped in when
Speaker 2: we're on air and just like I get this stuff.
Speaker 2: Just just enjoy the music and just let it in
Speaker 2: your body and that you're moving now like it was.
Speaker 2: It was one of those really beautiful moments you just say, Yes,
Speaker 2: I didn't learn to dance until week third e and
Speaker 2: I want to say learned to dance.
Speaker 1: Understand, what the of all the things you've done? Total
Speaker 1: respect for that, because I reckon I'd prefer to run
Speaker 1: out against a pack of marauding forwards and do dancing
Speaker 1: with the stars. That's let's But it was pressure.
Speaker 2: Again again, Like I was lucky I hadn't that because
Speaker 2: we were just having fun, right she like I was
Speaker 2: like Franken start like yeah I was, and I was.
Speaker 2: I was terrible, but uh it's almost like she built
Speaker 2: she she created, Yeah, she created this monster. She molded it.
Speaker 2: You know, got the work yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: we you know, the good thing is because we were
Speaker 2: having such a good time together and I was always
Speaker 2: apologizing to it on air and saying that such an
Speaker 2: uglhood like, but I was honest, like I just felt
Speaker 2: like so like she was an incredible dance and she's
Speaker 2: she's moving around with this, you know, like it was
Speaker 2: me and it was just moving there and I'd like,
Speaker 2: I think the audience kind of fed that. I was
Speaker 2: just enjoying myself and we were just enjoying ourselves. I mean,
Speaker 2: we used to score the lowest which we get loaded on.
Speaker 2: We kept him by the audiences and Alo. It was wonderful, mate, that.
Speaker 1: That comes across, doesn't It.
Speaker 2: Got such a nice experience, mate, It was such at
Speaker 2: I think in the final we we even't scored a ten.
Speaker 2: We didn't deserve it, but we just had such a
Speaker 2: good like it was she finally got that she was great. Man.
Speaker 2: She was such a beautiful person.
Speaker 1: I'm good on you for having the game. Now, going
Speaker 1: back to back to neither, what was it like going
Speaker 1: from the culture of the football team into the creative
Speaker 1: types in the artistic world.
Speaker 2: It's good. Well, I went there as an inverted commas
Speaker 2: mature age student because I you know, I went there
Speaker 2: after I played footy and I'd already come out I
Speaker 2: was going there as this guy had this public platfile
Speaker 2: as a gay man like sports person. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, and I don't I don't blame
Speaker 2: the doubters. Originally a lot of teachers thought it was
Speaker 2: a bit of a pr thing maybe, you know, and
Speaker 2: I totally understand that. But but Kevin Jackson, who I
Speaker 2: spoke about before, had total confidence in me, and that
Speaker 2: that kind of gave me confidence because I knew how
Speaker 2: well respected Kevin was in the industry. Yes it was,
Speaker 2: and because I was the youngest person in our class.
Speaker 2: Roum was seven eight seven eight or eighty seven eight,
Speaker 2: I think it was, and the oldest apart from me,
Speaker 2: I think Chris about twenty six twenty seven. I was
Speaker 2: much old. I was about thirty four thirty five, right,
Speaker 2: But I think going there as a mature, like I said,
Speaker 2: as a bit older it kind of gone. It did
Speaker 2: help me because you know, I mean, I was being serious.
Speaker 2: I was going there with full in time, giving it
Speaker 2: my best shop. But you know, this wasn't rockets, we
Speaker 2: weren't saving lives.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 2: Really and create creativity. And a lot of the younger
Speaker 2: people thought, you know, this is then their make or
Speaker 2: break time. This is when they had that this the
Speaker 2: next three years they were going to get from here
Speaker 2: to Hollywood type thing. And I understand the intensity and
Speaker 2: they were like so intense, like used to blow me away,
Speaker 2: just how focused. So I think we kind of benefited
Speaker 2: each other. They've and we've since spoken about it. We
Speaker 2: had our twentieth anniversary a couple of years ago. We
Speaker 2: all got together. The twenty five people who were in
Speaker 2: the class twenty three came to the well speak. We stayed.
Speaker 2: We stayed. We're still in touch with each other. We
Speaker 2: have a WhatsApp thing we all stay. So it's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Out of twenty twenty five, twenty three of us is
Speaker 2: still in touch and we're all still good friends. And
Speaker 2: even though I've said that me being a bit older
Speaker 2: did kind of help them too, because I did did
Speaker 2: butt heads a couple of times with some people, some teachers,
Speaker 2: and they just like, you know, for whatever reason, I
Speaker 2: was a dickhead as well. No, but just feeding off
Speaker 2: their energy, that their total commitment and the way they
Speaker 2: surrendered to these these like movement classes and stuff like
Speaker 2: I was a bit like scratching head whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: it's true, right, like all this stuff, but they totally
Speaker 2: surrendered to her. And it's not until again one of
Speaker 2: those moments when you allow yourself to go there, Oh,
Speaker 2: I kind of get this now. It was like I
Speaker 2: kind of understand, Like I didn't quite understand it, but
Speaker 2: I kind of did. Then in the second year, it
Speaker 2: was second year, even like the first year, I had
Speaker 2: this moment. I was with Kate Box, who's quite a
Speaker 2: well known actor now, Kate Champion, she's fantastic actress. We're
Speaker 2: doing this I'm trying to think the name of the play.
Speaker 2: I can't think anyway, but Kate was I was. She
Speaker 2: was a female lead and I was a mile lead
Speaker 2: and we're in this scene together. And because i'd learned
Speaker 2: my lines and it was the end of the first year,
Speaker 2: was the first play we've done, I'd ever done. But
Speaker 2: I remember being like on stage with her, and I
Speaker 2: had this moment. I just kind of had to check
Speaker 2: myself because I really because she was so good, right,
Speaker 2: Like she was so fantasy. But they all were like
Speaker 2: I always like the novice here, right, they were all
Speaker 2: so good. I didn't know who I was. I was
Speaker 2: just like, I don't know, Kate, are you? I don't
Speaker 2: know if I was talking to Kate Box or the
Speaker 2: character or it was just like she was so real.
Speaker 2: I got like kind of threw me, Like it really
Speaker 2: threw me. I didn't know where I was or I
Speaker 2: was just like I don't know, I didn't know how
Speaker 2: to respond. But she's just been the act like she's fantastic, right.
Speaker 2: It was one of those moments I kind of like
Speaker 2: it kind of scratched the surface for me a bit
Speaker 2: and I kind of just got to peer in and
Speaker 2: see this other world. It's like, oh my god, if
Speaker 2: I can do that this And then in the second year,
Speaker 2: I had one of those wonderful moments where it just dropped.
Speaker 2: Like again, just that that one moment. If I'm comparing
Speaker 2: it to sport, where you were in complete control, it's
Speaker 2: just like complete confidence, you know, like it just dropped in.
Speaker 2: I was on stage. It was an irish it'll come
Speaker 2: to me anyway, but but I just dropped and I
Speaker 2: just like, I get this. It was almost like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, everything slowed down. It was like this perfect
Speaker 2: I was totally aware of the audience and their responses
Speaker 2: and and the other people on stage and how we're
Speaker 2: all working together, and there was this overhang of what
Speaker 2: the actual picture that the story was about. It was
Speaker 2: almost like, oh my god, I can see this whole
Speaker 2: of the world. It's just been opened up to me.
Speaker 2: And that's what the arts do. And then I said
Speaker 2: that about dancing and later like it's the arts are
Speaker 2: amazing for creativity and just being giving you an insight
Speaker 2: into seeing other stuff that you know, like I was blind,
Speaker 2: Like I really like something. I kind of feel like
Speaker 2: before I went to night, I was seeing the world
Speaker 2: in black and white.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like it sounds a bit weird, but I
Speaker 1: get what you're saying.
Speaker 2: It was like it was this whole other world that
Speaker 2: got opened to me that I had been living alongside.
Speaker 2: And I would I'd never dip my toe in the
Speaker 2: in the in the.
Speaker 1: You've gone from ex dreams because they must have done
Speaker 1: something right, because you've you've had a good body of
Speaker 1: work with films and yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: We speak about this too. I mean I've been I've
Speaker 2: been quite lucky. But you know, in truth, if I
Speaker 2: had to survive on my acting checks, I quite hungry,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I mean I have,
Speaker 2: like I said, twenty years now, but I have been
Speaker 2: working on off consistently for twenty years.
Speaker 1: To drop some of the movies. You have made appearances
Speaker 1: on TV shows.
Speaker 2: It sounds a bit dicky saying Superman and in furios. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's been a whole load of like like small I
Speaker 2: mean when I went over in the States, I did
Speaker 2: like thirty movies in the States or like most of
Speaker 2: them were B grade. I was there for about four years. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I had some leaves over movies like Saltwater, Like
Speaker 2: it's even doing those smaller B grade in some of
Speaker 2: them with slasher movies. But it was how do I
Speaker 2: explain this? It kind of scratches it. You get like
Speaker 2: as a performer that the creativity and I'm not like
Speaker 2: now started well, I have been writing for a long time,
Speaker 2: but but having stuff that's actually being acknowledged, like it
Speaker 2: sounds a bit I'm not padding themself.
Speaker 1: Well, you're starting to annoy me. You're a high achiever.
Speaker 1: We tick off the football, Yeah, play played for the country,
Speaker 1: and the movies that you've started you started writing. You've
Speaker 1: got the award just last year for writing a play.
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Into the Light. It's a play that that I started writing.
Speaker 2: I started writing about five years ago, and then another
Speaker 2: friend came aboard and we got it. Yes, it's just
Speaker 2: picked up. We're trying to get it produced up on stage.
Speaker 2: But it's even that type of thing. It's it is again.
Speaker 2: You know I said before that I've been living alongside
Speaker 2: that these other worlds that I never even the writing. Well,
Speaker 2: like it's another one of those things you get to
Speaker 2: I get to glimpse into this other world and it's
Speaker 2: this of creativity. And you know, the one thing I
Speaker 2: couldn't read and write at school and the one thing
Speaker 2: I look back now that I that if I had
Speaker 2: my time over and I kind of knew as a
Speaker 2: young person some of the stuff that I've that I've learned,
Speaker 2: I would learn to play musical instrument and learn another language. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's two things I really wish I'd spent some time doing.
Speaker 1: You don't have an appreciation of what that can bring
Speaker 1: to your life if you pick up a skill skill
Speaker 1: set like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just the way it opens it gives opportunities
Speaker 2: or insight into other stuff that you're not even aware of,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I just education, education, education, education, It's
Speaker 2: like it's it's our means.
Speaker 1: And broad tolerance Braden's minds and it's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Mate.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting the experiences you've gone from different worlds.
Speaker 1: And I found it invigorating when my career and the
Speaker 1: Cops entered, and then I ended up into in the media,
Speaker 1: entertainment and different things, and it's like a new lease
Speaker 1: of life. And yeah, I think we're saying before we
Speaker 1: came on, I love hanging out with creative people like it.
Speaker 1: And in the Cops it was a lot of black
Speaker 1: and white thinking. A few people were creative and yeah,
Speaker 1: but all said and done, it was a lot of
Speaker 1: black and white thinking. And then come into a different
Speaker 1: world and you've got these creative times.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating being around other people and you know, just
Speaker 2: reading a script and then you reading the script and
Speaker 2: then them reading being in the room with them reading
Speaker 2: the script and they see something completely different and you're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, how didn't I see that? Like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I didn't see that color. I've missed all
Speaker 2: that texture. You know, I've missed that whole other world
Speaker 2: that you've just created, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: stuff like that, stuff like that is like and that's
Speaker 2: what I mean. They're having these whole, like other worlds
Speaker 2: I never knew existed.
Speaker 1: Well, the first article I wrote for the papers that
Speaker 1: read like a flat a fact sheet and yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: you got to broaden it up. When you went there,
Speaker 1: what was the color of the house or what were
Speaker 1: the steps like that you walked up? Instead, it was
Speaker 1: at such and such a time. So I had to
Speaker 1: change the way, as you've said, the way you look
Speaker 1: at life, because I've got to look at the broader picture.
Speaker 1: Before it was just the facts and that was my writing.
Speaker 2: So that's what I love. Theater made. I mean, it
Speaker 2: was just like you know that you would hope I
Speaker 2: mean theater the group I'm a part of court think
Speaker 2: about it, you know, like theater is about you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's you would hope a good theater production that
Speaker 2: you go and say, open your mind that make them laugh,
Speaker 2: make them cry, and make them think. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean. That's you know, like and seeing it visually
Speaker 2: and in touch and you know, like always there's the
Speaker 2: fourth wall and all that, but you're still connect like
Speaker 2: it's that's what I mean. It's like the connection you
Speaker 2: have with the actors and you're sitting in front and
Speaker 2: I love like film.
Speaker 1: And what you're doing with that, that work that you're
Speaker 1: doing there, Where are you Where are you doing?
Speaker 2: We started are doing that with with the n r L,
Speaker 2: just touching on you know, they they're still having problems
Speaker 2: with their players or having problems with their players fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago, and that they just wanted some sort of
Speaker 2: program where they could talk about this stuff and hopefully
Speaker 2: educate they there was a thing that was being done,
Speaker 2: not the same, somewhat similar. They'd seen this thing in
Speaker 2: the US where where players that players had got up
Speaker 2: on stage and they'd acted out some stuff in pro
Speaker 2: and so we kind of developed something not the same,
Speaker 2: this is much more engaging, uh. And it was you know,
Speaker 2: and we were speaking about about stuff that you know,
Speaker 2: that were it was uncomfortable for players to speak about openly.
Speaker 2: But we used a lot of We use a lot
Speaker 2: of humor, I said before, We speak about stuff like,
Speaker 2: you know, like wilence towards women, misogyny, drugs in sport, homophobia, bullying,
Speaker 2: like it's stuff that you know, like the way you
Speaker 2: spend your money, and you know, like security, like a
Speaker 2: whole lot of different stuff. But and then we get
Speaker 2: some players up involved and in the scenes, the actors
Speaker 2: on stage, we know where it's driving through, so we
Speaker 2: keep them on, we keep them in check. We're driving
Speaker 2: forward and then we have a discussion. But again we
Speaker 2: use a lot of humor and we make fun of
Speaker 2: ourselves all the time, so it's but it's serious stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, a good way to get a message.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's been fantastic. Like since doing the NRL, you know,
Speaker 2: we now do the a f L, the aau A League, basketball,
Speaker 2: most of the major sports contact sports in Australia. We
Speaker 2: also do corporations. We're doing the Australian Border Force at
Speaker 2: the moment, we've done all the whole out of banks,
Speaker 2: a lot of corporations.
Speaker 1: If people want to reach out to.
Speaker 2: Think about it, dot com, think about it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's been really really successful and it's great
Speaker 2: because you get to touch base and speak with people
Speaker 2: still involved creatively and in the sporting world.
Speaker 1: It's good, good, good combination.
Speaker 2: It's good and it's creative. It's also part of the
Speaker 2: creative process as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another thing that you've spoken out about concussion injuries
Speaker 1: in football. What's your take on that then, what's the
Speaker 1: impact that it's had on you because you've experienced it
Speaker 1: and you're going through it.
Speaker 2: When I was over in the States, I was in
Speaker 2: the States from about twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, and
Speaker 2: a few other times for six months. A few other
Speaker 2: times in between those periods, I mean I was always
Speaker 2: pretty good. I started noticing I had an issue with
Speaker 2: my memory. Was when I was over in the States.
Speaker 2: I was always pretty good with auditions, getting the stuff
Speaker 2: down and getting in and then being able to play
Speaker 2: around with the lines during the process. So I wasn't
Speaker 2: I didn't have to worry about recalling the lines all
Speaker 2: the time. I could worry about what was actually happening
Speaker 2: in the same I just started to feel a bit
Speaker 2: like it's things just didn't seem a sharp for a
Speaker 2: little while. Then I had a couple of episodes where
Speaker 2: I lost time. What I mean by that was I
Speaker 2: was driving the car. The first time I was driving
Speaker 2: the car. Then I kind of lost two hours. I
Speaker 2: was at home. Nothing had happened to me, obviously, because
Speaker 2: I got home. I just lost two hours. And another time,
Speaker 2: about two weeks later, I was in the shower and
Speaker 2: then I was on the bed eating my dinner, and
Speaker 2: a couple of hours had passed by and I just
Speaker 2: couldn't remember. The second time was much scarier than the
Speaker 2: first time. I just thought maybe i'd I don't know,
Speaker 2: like it was kind of weird just to wait, just
Speaker 2: to come to somewhere. But I my dad got sick.
Speaker 2: I came back to Australia, my dad passed away, and
Speaker 2: I ended up going having some tests and I saw
Speaker 2: there was a little bit of damage there in my
Speaker 2: reactive time and that wasn't as good as sharp as
Speaker 2: it should have been. And again I just I came
Speaker 2: back to the audition and the process of learning lines.
Speaker 2: I just didn't feel as sharp as what I normally.
Speaker 2: That's what how I knew saying was going on. I
Speaker 2: just wasn't as confident. Yeah, that was a bit of
Speaker 2: a worry. Then I had a couple more episodes middle
Speaker 2: of last year. Fainted a couple of times. One of
Speaker 2: those was like a heart attack. I had a different
Speaker 2: lay to put in.
Speaker 1: I just.
Speaker 2: And the reason I had that put in not the reason.
Speaker 2: But I was as soon as I said, look, you know,
Speaker 2: we we think you should have a defibrillator. My ex
Speaker 2: partner Shane, who I've spoken about a lot of this thing.
Speaker 2: He passed away. He had a heart attack last year
Speaker 2: and we spoke. But he had a condition he had,
Speaker 2: he had a heart and I said to the doctor,
Speaker 2: would he have been okay if it had something like this,
Speaker 2: he would have stood a chance. And I said, I
Speaker 2: just put it in them, mate, just like that, don't
Speaker 2: get it done. So. But I've also been diagnosed with
Speaker 2: with I fainted a couple of times. I trained a
Speaker 2: couple of times. That's how this thing. I fainted a
Speaker 2: couple of times, and they were hard things. They won't
Speaker 2: just me fainting situation with my heart. I ended up
Speaker 2: in hospital having a whole load of testing and I
Speaker 2: but I kept losing time. I had a couple of
Speaker 2: more episodes of losing time and that's They put that
Speaker 2: down to epilepsy, which is fine, like it's but I've
Speaker 2: now found the right ballance of my medication. And I'm good,
Speaker 2: like what I say, I'm good. I don't drive anymore anymore.
Speaker 2: But that's my memory.
Speaker 1: And this is a byproduct.
Speaker 2: You think from the I have like that that they
Speaker 2: can't be sure any of this stuff. I am absolutely myself.
Speaker 2: I am absolutely sure it is. I'm still you know,
Speaker 2: like I said about my memory and that I do
Speaker 2: a lot of cognitive training and that that type of thing.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's if it's purely placebo thing,
Speaker 2: but I always feel better about myself staying on ye
Speaker 2: brain training, about staying on top of lake and even
Speaker 2: doing the auditions and that stuff. I like to do
Speaker 2: them now even though I'm not. I just like, I
Speaker 2: just feel like I'm doing something about it. I'm fully
Speaker 2: open to like, you know, like I'm not. I don't
Speaker 2: feel regretful about playing foot or anything like that. Just
Speaker 2: this is just the situation. I think we need to
Speaker 2: talk about it. I do think there needs to be
Speaker 2: a conversation about mate.
Speaker 1: You do you think the league of getting it right
Speaker 1: or can they be there's an awareness now on the
Speaker 1: concussion injury and bringing the player off And do you
Speaker 1: think they're finding.
Speaker 2: They've started that they've started. I mean, I think there's
Speaker 2: that there probably need to be more real changes at
Speaker 2: some point that the head area does have to be
Speaker 2: protected at all costs, you know, like because there are complications,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's the truth of it. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a price price you pay. Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 2: know what the answer is, I mean, I love rugby legs.
Speaker 2: It's like boxing, you know, like.
Speaker 1: I can't I love boxing logic.
Speaker 2: I mean, you get points for hitting someone in the head,
Speaker 2: for knocking someone out. The idea is, you know, hopefully
Speaker 2: you knock something that's not a good thing, you know,
Speaker 2: like it's quite yeah, literally not a good.
Speaker 1: And the trouble is, as you said, there's twenty. You
Speaker 1: never think you're going to make sixty, so you're not
Speaker 1: really worried about it.
Speaker 2: You're not going to make sixty. You never think you're
Speaker 2: going to be sixty. It's just like that's never going
Speaker 2: to happen, you know. I mean it's not that I'm
Speaker 2: like that's that's I'm never going to get old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I mean I'm in a good spot. I do think,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like I'm comfortable in myself. I
Speaker 2: think I you know, like the last the last few
Speaker 2: months of my life, I've felt like I'm in a
Speaker 2: really good spot. Now I'm really grateful. I feel like
Speaker 2: I don't it soundstcky, but I do feel like incredibly fortunate,
Speaker 2: grateful for you know, I have a wonderful relationship. I
Speaker 2: keep saying, like with my with my mom, and my
Speaker 2: brother and sister and the close friends. I feel like
Speaker 2: I have a really good family in it. Dan, fantastic.
Speaker 2: I just I'm just really grateful. I just and and
Speaker 2: what you said before, I sometimes you know, you hit
Speaker 2: the expression expression and pitching and I've been so lucky,
Speaker 2: like the creative but like like I do, like I
Speaker 2: have had so many experiences like peaks and valles, peaks
Speaker 2: and valleys, peaks and valleys, and there's still peaks and
Speaker 2: valleys and when you hit the valleys everything things that
Speaker 2: the cave. But like I found, as I've gotten older,
Speaker 2: you kind of realize, I just time, time seems to stretch,
Speaker 2: like you know, like it's just like you can be
Speaker 2: really in a really dark place. Just give it time,
Speaker 2: your things will and you kind of accept this is
Speaker 2: what I've got to go through to get to get better.
Speaker 2: I've got to process or whatever it is, the sadness
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. Yep, I've just got to sit
Speaker 2: with it and process it.
Speaker 1: It makes sense to me. I always look at the
Speaker 1: life that there's going to be the layer points. And
Speaker 1: if you think you're going to go through life without
Speaker 1: a lay point, you haven't really lived a life. You're
Speaker 1: going to have your eyes, You're going to have your layers.
Speaker 2: But yeah, everything moves on, like everything like everything moves on.
Speaker 1: Well, you look like you're in a good space. You've
Speaker 1: got a good energy and I think you know in
Speaker 1: all what you've done and the burden that you've carried,
Speaker 1: and it was a burden and dismiss it now, but
Speaker 1: coming out in rugby league at the time that you
Speaker 1: did that was a burden, that was a responsibility. But
Speaker 1: I think you've made the world a better place for
Speaker 1: people who they are following you.
Speaker 2: I've been very fortunate. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I've loved having you on Eye Catch Killers.
Speaker 1: It's been a great chat and good old Johnny's brought
Speaker 1: more people together.
Speaker 2: Is a champion, Yeah, absolutely champion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the best for the future and endeavors.
Speaker 2: I'll keep you, I keep you up to speed with
Speaker 2: the dog out on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that it's an important, important story
Speaker 1: to be told and yeah, very powerful, powerful story. But
Speaker 1: thanks so much. H