WEBVTT - The murder that changed my life: Ian Roberts Pt.2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.080 exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.839 In part one of my sit down with Ierne Roberts, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.479 we talked about his football career, the discrimination he faced, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:54.880 and the pressures of coming out as a gay man. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.640 We're now going to talk about a very dark period 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.800 in Then's life when Aaron Light, a young boy he 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.800 cared for and helped, was brutally murdered and the guilt 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.520 earned feels for what happened. And also told us about 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.400 his time at Neither his acting career, his personal battles, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.280 and what he is doing to make the world a 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.920 kind of place. This was a very raw and emotional 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.320 discussion with a powerful message, that message being the importance 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.040 of being true to yourself. I think Iran considers himself 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.280 as an average man, but he found himself in extraordinary 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.920 situations and he discovered who he is and I think 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.880 has made the world a better place. Have a listen, 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.240 then welcome back to I Catch Killers. You made it 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:41.880 to part two. 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.600 Yeah, okay, are you sounding like that's that's that's a 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:47.440 bar most people. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.760 You're doing doing well. Look in part one, I appreciate 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.560 your openness and honesty about what you went through as 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.640 a prominent, high profile one of the highest profile footballers 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.360 in the country and then coming out gay and how 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.000 that how that played out. I mentioned in part one 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.640 that I want to talk about the murder of Aaron 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.880 Light and this is I apologize there because I know 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.840 it digs up some bad, heavy memory memories for you. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.600 Set the circumstances in terms of when Aaron came into 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.079 your life. When did you first meet meet Aaron? 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.160 It would have been about nine ninety I was living 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.200 at Campadown, it was he was in the Camperdown Children's Hospital. 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.760 I was to staying there on a visit. I thing 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.120 we used to do. It was either eighty nine or nine, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.120 because I can't remember. I still have this day. I 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.080 can't remember. It was with the house or with Manly 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.000 and Aaron was in hospital. I was living in Campa Down. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.800 He was in the Campadown Children's Hospital there. He was 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:01.079 about nine or nine or ten, and he'd been Yeah, 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:02.720 he'd been in the hospital for quite a while and 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.799 at that stage you had had complications with a knee injury. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:13.000 And he was in this medieval contraption that was there 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.280 was pins going in like like it was. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.160 Just had attraction. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.240 It was it was uh and he was just this 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.280 kid who was really cheeky, and I kind of like 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.440 because he was so cheeky and and he wasn't a 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.720 football supporter or rugby league supporter. He was just like 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.000 it was just it was just this kid had a 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.600 real sense of hearing with about him. He was steady 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.280 criticizing us and bagging us and. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.600 This is you guys turn up as. 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.240 Whatever. You know, it's one of those those footage. So 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:47.800 he was giving it back to Yeah, but he was 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.960 just like, what are you doing here? You're just doing 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.200 it for the publicity. It was, and it was quite 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.440 it was quite beyond his year, like he was quite sharp, 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.200 you know. And then you won't come back here. It 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:00.760 was something like that, you know, And I said, I 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:02.440 live across the road. I'm just going to come back 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:02.880 to you doing know. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:03.200 You know. 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.080 It was one of that, and that's kind of how 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.560 our relationship started. I just he was in hospital. I 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.440 couldn't tell you how long it was format for a 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.800 long time. I had so many complications with his name, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.240 but I'm saying probably three or four months. I pop 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.720 in every couple of weeks or whatever today, and we 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.880 end up just becoming kind of friends. Yeah that sounds weird, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.240 but you know, yeah it was. It was. It was 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.800 like it sounds. It was just ended up becoming a mate. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.400 He got out of hospital and he had my phone number. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:35.839 He'd ring up every so often say here are you 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.440 going whatever? I suppose. In the next couple of years, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.920 I only saw him once. Maybe we went to the movie. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:47.080 I took him in the movies or something and his dad. Yeah, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.760 and then then I didn't see him again for a 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:57.080 little while. Then what you was that must be ninety 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.839 three ninety four. Bumped into him on the street. Ye, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.640 I was a friend of mine, my flatmate Kirsty, and 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.120 he kind of just struck up a friendship again. He 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.479 was he wasn't living at home, he was he said 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:17.279 he was living in and around the cross across on Bondidi. Yeah, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.040 but he was always he was always street wise. Like 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.680 he bumped into him on the street and I took 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.599 him to it to the game the next day, met 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.680 him and his mate Elliott. I think his mate's name 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.159 was Elliot Middle. He's also he disappeared as well, never 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:39.440 been found. Yeah, and that's and then I don't know, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.040 like he stayed in touch, like he I was living 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.360 in I was still living we're still living at camping 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:46.279 down at that stage. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.360 And so did he he was about fifteen at the time. Yeah, 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.120 And did he move in with you guys? 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:57.440 Eventually he did. It stayed like that. He'd come over 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.880 once or twice a week at that stage. I used 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.120 to tell me he used to make money from like 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.799 like it sounds terrible, but like breaking into the cars 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.640 and that type of thing and selling tape. 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.040 And you you grew up around housing. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:16.960 Yeah, the world. Yeah, I'm not here, not for me 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.360 to judge like a fifteen year old kid. So yeah, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.120 what happened was one night he rang me. He was 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.680 and he was very upset, and I just asked him 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.480 where he was. He said he was in his squat 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.560 Bond Eye. Went down to Bond Eye where he didn't 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.800 say it was a squat. He said, he's hostel And 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.960 it wasn't a hostel. It was just a squat, an 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.960 old house. It was walking there. It was not good. 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.080 It was really like it was just an old the house. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.000 Was it since been it was you know, it was 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.880 pulled down, Yeah, demolished. He'd just been staying there and 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.800 a couple of other young bikes. I just said, you know, 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.880 grabey stuff and may come you come and stop with 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:56.640 us for a while. 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:57.159 Yeah. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:06:59.400 We had a spare bedroom at that time. I was 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.520 then with my in the Shane, Kirsty was in the 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.680 other room and Aaron, So we kind of made a deal. 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.039 Like he had been coming over like once or twice 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.160 a week anyway, and Kirsty was looking after him, like 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:13.680 cleaning his clothes. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.320 And providing base by the sound of it, Yeah. 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.840 It's anyway, and we just we kind of decided, you know, 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.800 like you can stay here with us, you've got to 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.440 go to school. That was the only thing. And you've 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:26.680 got to you know, you got to reach out to 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.040 your mo and dad and yeah, so that's what happened. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.040 It was good. Like the first few months he was 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.760 for whatever reason, we were living at Campana and he 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.960 wanted to go to walclous High. I don't know like why, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.240 but that's but he did. He got up every morning 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.520 and caught a couple of butts, like and he was 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:43.440 living a normal life. 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.000 He was you thought I thought he was heading in 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.920 the ro like he was good. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:50.760 Here's always his cheeky like me and him used to 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.480 upstairs and where we were, we lived in a nice place. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.520 It was a pool like a lap pool upstairs. There 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.720 was a tennis caught upstairs on the roof and Jim 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.760 sauna like we mean, I trained with him every so often, 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.600 like in the gym, and that I was. I was 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.920 just his mate, like it was like he's I will 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.520 say this, Aaron always had a problem with with authority. 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.520 Didn't have much of an opinion of the police. He 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:17.320 just absolutely was dead against the police. But I was 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.160 you know, we used to make him bring his mom 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.880 and dad, like I was probably like I can honestly, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.320 I can honestly say like one of the only males 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.440 in his life that he respected, like love like love 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.880 like it like yeah, yeah, I. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.240 Know it's probably hard for you talking about it on there, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.600 but there was there was a genuine affection and love 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:42.760 between the whole group of you. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.079 He knew I was guy as well. Yeah, that's the 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.320 other thing. And like he never had a problem with Shane. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.880 He was always like he was always totally respectful, like 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.200 he was perfect, Like it was so respectful. He was 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:58.600 like he used to tell me, you guys mates, your buddies. Yeah, 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.680 and that's exactly like it because we know we did. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.280 It's hard to explain, mate, Like we had spoken about 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.800 the situation, what it might look like, you know, I meanly. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.760 His and look and I'll say it because it's part 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.719 of your Your concern was that you've got a young 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.080 kid living with you, You've come out as gay. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:19.720 That's why I wanted him to say in touch with 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.679 his family, and I wanted them to know, like I 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.360 speak to them occasionally. 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.599 A genuine act of kindness for the high risk potentially. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.880 Could I just to be clear, honestly, it wasn't just 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.560 an act of kindness. It wasn't about kindness. It's just 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.559 this it was like with my friend. People like people 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:41.520 really struggle to understand that, even the whole corners in case, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.800 like they struggled to understand it's like this young man 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.640 is my friend. Like this young boy is my friend. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.600 Like it's like that was because I was at that stage. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.880 I don't know, I would have been nearly thirty twenty nine, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.680 and he was like fifth Like, people don't get that 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.400 he was my friend. Yeah, I mean they quite in 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.440 the true sense of the word mate my friend. 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.600 Yeah no, I think the way the way you were explaining, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:15.520 that's understandable, understandable. So it went then there was dramas 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.640 that happened or did he go off the rails or start. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.000 To I had the police arn you one day and 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.280 asked if they could come around and see me, and yeah, 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.200 you know, I asked him what it was about, They said, Aaron. 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:35.280 And so when they came they told me what he 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.000 had been involved in previously. They also said to me 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.000 that they knew now he was like the house had 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.480 been underlans. They were quite aware that he was going 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.280 to school and all that. That was all shocked as well. Yeah, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:54.679 like more than just a shock, it was. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.720 And I was spinning because they basically said that he 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.160 was caught up with in a pedophile. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.360 Yeah, he'd been checked at pedophiles houses and that type 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.880 of thing, and leading that was before he was living 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.840 with us. That's how he'd been supporting himself. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.800 And put you in a difficult, potentially difficult position. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.400 Yeah, And this is where this becomes hard because I 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.480 hear what you're saying, but I knew from I knew 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.560 from them at that moment that was well, I was 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.640 thinking about it like it was. I was worried about 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:30.400 I just come out and all that, and just like 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:34.760 people are going to surmise what they think has happened. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.640 And anyway, the police wanted me to bring it up 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.679 with him and see if he'd make some statements against 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.760 these people, because I've had other young kids who weren't 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.880 willing to meet the statements and their parents. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.520 And I just put on record too here and that 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.640 I know the police officer that was involved in it. 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.440 And yeah, they've said that first they're looking at everyone 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.800 with suspicion that's just the coop mentality, but they realize that. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.560 Yeah. I will say that the police, a person that 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.319 I was in touch with, he was absolute champion. But 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.440 he's like, for as much as he could he put me, 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.760 he just said, you know you are not a suspect. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.640 In the same we realized the reason we've come to 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.240 you where he realizes Aaron trusts you and he's in 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.040 a safe space here and he's been he's not been 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.640 checked at those people's places ever since he's been living here, 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.200 which is reassuring, but it's also not reassuring, you know. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.480 It's just like they asked me if I because I 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.000 also knew that he had a real issue with authority 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.360 and talking to police. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.880 And they asked you to help me to ask Yeah. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.960 And I I always say, it's giving my time over again, 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.160 it was this. I would have done exactly the opposite 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.360 to what I ended up doing. I said that I 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.480 would talk to him because I didn't even know what 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:55.959 I was thinking of that day. It was just like 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.760 it was a blurt. It was almost like it's it's 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.120 hard to explain my head being I just come out 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.040 as this gay man. I was just like I can 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.040 just see the newspapers. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.720 Now, I just understandable. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.760 I was just I was just getting ready to sign 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.280 a contract to go to not just with News Limit, 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.360 not with Super leg That wasn't the reason I went 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.880 to Townsburg because it was as far away from Sydney 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.160 as that. That's why I ended up going there anyway. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.520 So Aaron come, you know, police left, Aaron came home, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.600 told him and it's like one of those moments I 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:35.680 just wish, knowing what I know now, I just wish 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.439 that I said to the police officer that day, I'm 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.120 not going to bring this up to He's in a 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.080 safe space now that he's working. 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.000 We're not going to destroy his life what you're carrying. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.800 Yeah, I just if I if I had said nothing 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.600 to Aaron, I'm sure that the boy was he would 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:54.240 still be alive. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:54.760 You know. 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.480 I really wish that I just said, no, he's in 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.160 a safe space now. He's good. You know. He and 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.000 his mates would come around, and he had a girlfriend 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.160 at one stage, like it was. It's really it was 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.320 just going to things that he was really happy, like 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:09.679 things are good, like he was just. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.720 I was like, yeah, he was just good kid, And 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.520 what the feelings that you've got the regrets. Is that 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.000 you the place wanted Jew to encourage him to give sentence. 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:25.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it says when he came home, 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:32.120 I had that conversation. This finding is really difficult. It 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.400 was the worse thing that was just it's it's talk 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.560 about I don't know how to say regrets not a 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.840 big enough word. But I just know now that I 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.720 just I really read him, I really read him down, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.480 and like I feel like I've Yeah, at that moment, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.200 it's still like I thought I was okay with this, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.160 and I'm just talking about it. You know, it's just 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.360 like I really let him down. I just from the 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.920 person he trusted, He loved me, but he so respected me, 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:04.400 care about me. Yeah, I just let him down. I just. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.400 Hindsight. You know, we're all wise with hindsight. I mean, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.720 in that situation, you're trusting the police. The police obviously 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.680 trying to try and to do the right thing. It's 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.200 a kids being caught up in a situation and they're 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:27.760 trying to stop horrendous criminals. But yeah, you sit here 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.840 in hindsight, who knows how it turns out? And I see, 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.840 let me say this, I see a lot of people 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.000 when the murders have happened and situations have happened, and 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.800 there's a lot of self blame for the people left behind. 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.640 But look at what you're doing. You guys were helping 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.160 helping him get his life in order, pointing him in 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.520 the right direction. Come from friendship and care. So that's 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:51.240 not a bad thing. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.640 Yeah, no, I hear, and I appreciate you saying that. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.800 But the truth, I mean, the absolute truth is I 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.560 know the truth, and I just know that that wasn't 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.880 that was that, that wasn't my my soul motivation in 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.440 that point. It was terrified people that would jump to 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.720 the wrong conclusion, right, Yeah, that was and that's what 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.280 that's that's what hurts. I just knowing what I know 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.120 now and how things are, just like I wouldn't give 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.040 a fuck if everyone knew I thought I was like 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.160 a pedophile. It sounds awful like he'd still be a 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.360 lot like it. I don't even know how to explain it. Well, 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:29.040 I get what you're saying, so. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.040 And I understand where you're coming from. And it's a 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.560 heavy heart. I'm sitting here listening to you beat up 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:40.160 on yourself yourself about it. And yeah, but also be 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.600 kind to yourself that at that time perfectly understandable what 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.840 you're going, what you were going going through that. Yeah, 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.720 it's an extraordinary said, that set of circumstances you found 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:52.360 yourself in. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.400 Yeah, yeah, it's I do know. That conversation with Aaron 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.640 changed everything after that because he just he agreed to 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.520 make statements and I went to Townsville. I just wanted to 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.760 go out of Sydney. Yeah, he went downhill terribly, you know. 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.440 Yeah I wasn't there. Yeah, it's weird. I wasn't there, 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.080 Like I just I just wanted to be away, not 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.439 away from him. I was always thinking about him and 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.560 caring about him, but I was just terrified of you know, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.840 I just turned up in Townsville. As they made me captain. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.000 I just started saying. Just prior to Aaron moving just 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:41.680 after Aaron moved in, Shane and I had broken up. Sorry, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.920 that was just prior to Aaron moving in. And then 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.680 just when I went to Townsville, I met another by 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.840 then my partner then Andrew. Andrew and I staid together 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.359 for six years and we're still best friends now. But 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:00.720 I always felt, yeah, I wish I was being being 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.359 clear and mate it is kind of weird. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:07.000 I think in the way you're articulating it, it's understandable, 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.959 and I hear the heavy heart that you have with 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.640 it and the emotions that come with it, And yeah, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.520 I can't change it. I can just but what I 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.360 can say is an experience as a homicide detectively, there's 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.520 not a murder I've seen where someone innocent that has 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.600 nothing to do with it blames themselves when it's all 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.680 said and done. For those that don't know that, after 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:36.040 you've moved up there, Aaron disappeared prior to giving evidence 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:43.240 against the pedophiles, and his skills or remains were found 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:45.840 not far from here at Saint Peter's. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:51.040 That's terrible, you know how they it's awful. Even the 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.760 way they discovered that it was where they found out 0:18:54.280 --> 0:19:01.240 that they that it was Aaron's body his knee because 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.119 he had such complications when I first meeting with his knee, 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.960 his knee had become quite deformed. It was like a 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.000 bulbous type of thing. Yeah, that's that's how they discovered 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.919 it was Ara's body, the Bible's knee. They didn't know 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:14.840 who it was at first. 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.000 How how did you process the whole thing, like when 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.840 you found out what had happened to him. 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.360 He'd been like the last night. In fact, Aaron two 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.280 was in nine ninety seven. I was just preparing for 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.680 the member of the Try series that super leg used 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:31.840 to have. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.920 Yeah, so it was for the I think it. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.320 Was the second game and anyway, but I was just 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.399 packing my bag, getting ready to leave Townsville to go 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.800 into camp, and I got a phone call off a policement. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.679 Aaron had been arrested again for stealing, and he wouldn't 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.040 talk to police. The only person who talked to was me, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.639 so they'd phone me up and put him on and 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.760 I was trying to calm him down, but he was screaming. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.840 He was angry at me by that stage as well, 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.840 like you know, which is quite entirely. He was so 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.160 entitled to be that it just felt like he was alone. 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.560 He was saying that stuff, and I just I was 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:18.360 trying to convince him to to cooperate with with the police, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.880 and he was saying a lie that I put him 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:27.280 in touch with. He disappeared three days later. That was it. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:33.679 Aaron's body was found in two thousand and two. God, ed, uh, 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:35.560 it's just weird. It was just that was the last 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:42.359 time I spoke to him. It was He's one of 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.239 those moments. What he said, he was so spot on, 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.919 like you know, I had so let him down, like 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.440 he disappeared, Like I said, three, he just left the 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:56.760 police station, disappeared. I supposed to give evidence three days later, 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.160 never turned up in court. 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:04.120 And the murder still unsolved. Yes, at this point they 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.159 had an inquest. You got dragged into the inquest. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.000 The inquest was quite the process. And anyone who knows 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.919 anybody the currents in quest knows that there are interested parties. 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.800 You can ask your questions. Yes, a couple of those 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.760 parties were pedophiles, well suspected what one of them was suspected, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:28.560 which is quite like intimidating the grubs. Yeah, I mean, 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.720 I don't know how else to say it, Mate, Like, yeah, 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.520 it's just it is. It's kind of the whole error, 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.400 not whole, the whole I nely I did it again, 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.480 said the whole our experiences. It's just an experience in 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:46.760 my life. It's just just you know, it's it's hard 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.360 to explain, but it's you don't do the right thing 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.560 because it's the right thing to do just do the 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.640 right thing. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:58.920 you don't do the right thing because it's the right 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.200 thing to do. Just do the right thing. And it's 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.840 one of those yeah consequences, you know, knock on effects. 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.199 It's a it's a heavy burden to carry for you. 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.080