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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: In part one of my sit down with Ierne Roberts,

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Speaker 1: we talked about his football career, the discrimination he faced,

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Speaker 1: and the pressures of coming out as a gay man.

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Speaker 1: We're now going to talk about a very dark period

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Speaker 1: in Then's life when Aaron Light, a young boy he

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Speaker 1: cared for and helped, was brutally murdered and the guilt

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Speaker 1: earned feels for what happened. And also told us about

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Speaker 1: his time at Neither his acting career, his personal battles,

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Speaker 1: and what he is doing to make the world a

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Speaker 1: kind of place. This was a very raw and emotional

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Speaker 1: discussion with a powerful message, that message being the importance

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Speaker 1: of being true to yourself. I think Iran considers himself

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Speaker 1: as an average man, but he found himself in extraordinary

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Speaker 1: situations and he discovered who he is and I think

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Speaker 1: has made the world a better place. Have a listen,

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Speaker 1: then welcome back to I Catch Killers. You made it

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Speaker 1: to part two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, are you sounding like that's that's that's a

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Speaker 2: bar most people.

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Speaker 1: You're doing doing well. Look in part one, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: your openness and honesty about what you went through as

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Speaker 1: a prominent, high profile one of the highest profile footballers

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Speaker 1: in the country and then coming out gay and how

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Speaker 1: that how that played out. I mentioned in part one

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Speaker 1: that I want to talk about the murder of Aaron

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Speaker 1: Light and this is I apologize there because I know

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Speaker 1: it digs up some bad, heavy memory memories for you.

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Speaker 1: Set the circumstances in terms of when Aaron came into

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Speaker 1: your life. When did you first meet meet Aaron?

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Speaker 2: It would have been about nine ninety I was living

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Speaker 2: at Campadown, it was he was in the Camperdown Children's Hospital.

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Speaker 2: I was to staying there on a visit. I thing

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Speaker 2: we used to do. It was either eighty nine or nine,

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Speaker 2: because I can't remember. I still have this day. I

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Speaker 2: can't remember. It was with the house or with Manly

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Speaker 2: and Aaron was in hospital. I was living in Campa Down.

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Speaker 2: He was in the Campadown Children's Hospital there. He was

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Speaker 2: about nine or nine or ten, and he'd been Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he'd been in the hospital for quite a while and

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Speaker 2: at that stage you had had complications with a knee injury.

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Speaker 2: And he was in this medieval contraption that was there

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Speaker 2: was pins going in like like it was.

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Speaker 1: Just had attraction.

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Speaker 2: It was it was uh and he was just this

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Speaker 2: kid who was really cheeky, and I kind of like

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Speaker 2: because he was so cheeky and and he wasn't a

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Speaker 2: football supporter or rugby league supporter. He was just like

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Speaker 2: it was just it was just this kid had a

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Speaker 2: real sense of hearing with about him. He was steady

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Speaker 2: criticizing us and bagging us and.

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Speaker 1: This is you guys turn up as.

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Speaker 2: Whatever. You know, it's one of those those footage. So

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Speaker 2: he was giving it back to Yeah, but he was

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Speaker 2: just like, what are you doing here? You're just doing

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Speaker 2: it for the publicity. It was, and it was quite

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Speaker 2: it was quite beyond his year, like he was quite sharp,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then you won't come back here. It

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Speaker 2: was something like that, you know, And I said, I

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Speaker 2: live across the road. I'm just going to come back

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Speaker 2: to you doing know.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was one of that, and that's kind of how

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Speaker 2: our relationship started. I just he was in hospital. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't tell you how long it was format for a

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Speaker 2: long time. I had so many complications with his name,

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Speaker 2: but I'm saying probably three or four months. I pop

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Speaker 2: in every couple of weeks or whatever today, and we

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Speaker 2: end up just becoming kind of friends. Yeah that sounds weird,

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Speaker 2: but you know, yeah it was. It was. It was

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Speaker 2: like it sounds. It was just ended up becoming a mate.

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Speaker 2: He got out of hospital and he had my phone number.

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Speaker 2: He'd ring up every so often say here are you

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Speaker 2: going whatever? I suppose. In the next couple of years,

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Speaker 2: I only saw him once. Maybe we went to the movie.

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Speaker 2: I took him in the movies or something and his dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then then I didn't see him again for a

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Speaker 2: little while. Then what you was that must be ninety

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Speaker 2: three ninety four. Bumped into him on the street. Ye,

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Speaker 2: I was a friend of mine, my flatmate Kirsty, and

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Speaker 2: he kind of just struck up a friendship again. He

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Speaker 2: was he wasn't living at home, he was he said

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Speaker 2: he was living in and around the cross across on Bondidi. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but he was always he was always street wise. Like

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Speaker 2: he bumped into him on the street and I took

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Speaker 2: him to it to the game the next day, met

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Speaker 2: him and his mate Elliott. I think his mate's name

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Speaker 2: was Elliot Middle. He's also he disappeared as well, never

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Speaker 2: been found. Yeah, and that's and then I don't know,

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Speaker 2: like he stayed in touch, like he I was living

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Speaker 2: in I was still living we're still living at camping

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Speaker 2: down at that stage.

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Speaker 1: And so did he he was about fifteen at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And did he move in with you guys?

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Speaker 2: Eventually he did. It stayed like that. He'd come over

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Speaker 2: once or twice a week at that stage. I used

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Speaker 2: to tell me he used to make money from like

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Speaker 2: like it sounds terrible, but like breaking into the cars

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Speaker 2: and that type of thing and selling tape.

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Speaker 1: And you you grew up around housing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the world. Yeah, I'm not here, not for me

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Speaker 2: to judge like a fifteen year old kid. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: what happened was one night he rang me. He was

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Speaker 2: and he was very upset, and I just asked him

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Speaker 2: where he was. He said he was in his squat

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Speaker 2: Bond Eye. Went down to Bond Eye where he didn't

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Speaker 2: say it was a squat. He said, he's hostel And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a hostel. It was just a squat, an

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Speaker 2: old house. It was walking there. It was not good.

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Speaker 2: It was really like it was just an old the house.

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Speaker 2: Was it since been it was you know, it was

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Speaker 2: pulled down, Yeah, demolished. He'd just been staying there and

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Speaker 2: a couple of other young bikes. I just said, you know,

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Speaker 2: grabey stuff and may come you come and stop with

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Speaker 2: us for a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We had a spare bedroom at that time. I was

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Speaker 2: then with my in the Shane, Kirsty was in the

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Speaker 2: other room and Aaron, So we kind of made a deal.

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Speaker 2: Like he had been coming over like once or twice

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Speaker 2: a week anyway, and Kirsty was looking after him, like

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Speaker 2: cleaning his clothes.

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Speaker 1: And providing base by the sound of it, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's anyway, and we just we kind of decided, you know,

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Speaker 2: like you can stay here with us, you've got to

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Speaker 2: go to school. That was the only thing. And you've

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Speaker 2: got to you know, you got to reach out to

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Speaker 2: your mo and dad and yeah, so that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: It was good. Like the first few months he was

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, we were living at Campana and he

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Speaker 2: wanted to go to walclous High. I don't know like why,

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Speaker 2: but that's but he did. He got up every morning

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Speaker 2: and caught a couple of butts, like and he was

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Speaker 2: living a normal life.

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Speaker 1: He was you thought I thought he was heading in

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Speaker 1: the ro like he was good.

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Speaker 2: Here's always his cheeky like me and him used to

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Speaker 2: upstairs and where we were, we lived in a nice place.

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Speaker 2: It was a pool like a lap pool upstairs. There

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Speaker 2: was a tennis caught upstairs on the roof and Jim

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Speaker 2: sauna like we mean, I trained with him every so often,

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Speaker 2: like in the gym, and that I was. I was

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Speaker 2: just his mate, like it was like he's I will

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Speaker 2: say this, Aaron always had a problem with with authority.

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Speaker 2: Didn't have much of an opinion of the police. He

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Speaker 2: just absolutely was dead against the police. But I was

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Speaker 2: you know, we used to make him bring his mom

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Speaker 2: and dad, like I was probably like I can honestly,

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Speaker 2: I can honestly say like one of the only males

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Speaker 2: in his life that he respected, like love like love

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Speaker 2: like it like yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Know it's probably hard for you talking about it on there,

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Speaker 1: but there was there was a genuine affection and love

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Speaker 1: between the whole group of you.

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Speaker 2: He knew I was guy as well. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 2: other thing. And like he never had a problem with Shane.

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Speaker 2: He was always like he was always totally respectful, like

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Speaker 2: he was perfect, Like it was so respectful. He was

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Speaker 2: like he used to tell me, you guys mates, your buddies. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that's exactly like it because we know we did.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to explain, mate, Like we had spoken about

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Speaker 2: the situation, what it might look like, you know, I meanly.

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Speaker 1: His and look and I'll say it because it's part

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Speaker 1: of your Your concern was that you've got a young

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Speaker 1: kid living with you, You've come out as gay.

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Speaker 2: That's why I wanted him to say in touch with

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Speaker 2: his family, and I wanted them to know, like I

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Speaker 2: speak to them occasionally.

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Speaker 1: A genuine act of kindness for the high risk potentially.

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Speaker 2: Could I just to be clear, honestly, it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: an act of kindness. It wasn't about kindness. It's just

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Speaker 2: this it was like with my friend. People like people

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Speaker 2: really struggle to understand that, even the whole corners in case,

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Speaker 2: like they struggled to understand it's like this young man

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Speaker 2: is my friend. Like this young boy is my friend.

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Speaker 2: Like it's like that was because I was at that stage.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I would have been nearly thirty twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: and he was like fifth Like, people don't get that

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Speaker 2: he was my friend. Yeah, I mean they quite in

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Speaker 2: the true sense of the word mate my friend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, I think the way the way you were explaining,

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Speaker 1: that's understandable, understandable. So it went then there was dramas

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Speaker 1: that happened or did he go off the rails or start.

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Speaker 2: To I had the police arn you one day and

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Speaker 2: asked if they could come around and see me, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, I asked him what it was about, They said, Aaron.

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Speaker 2: And so when they came they told me what he

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Speaker 2: had been involved in previously. They also said to me

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Speaker 2: that they knew now he was like the house had

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Speaker 2: been underlans. They were quite aware that he was going

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Speaker 2: to school and all that. That was all shocked as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like more than just a shock, it was.

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Speaker 1: And I was spinning because they basically said that he

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Speaker 1: was caught up with in a pedophile.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd been checked at pedophiles houses and that type

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Speaker 2: of thing, and leading that was before he was living

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Speaker 2: with us. That's how he'd been supporting himself.

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Speaker 1: And put you in a difficult, potentially difficult position.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is where this becomes hard because I

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Speaker 2: hear what you're saying, but I knew from I knew

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Speaker 2: from them at that moment that was well, I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about it like it was. I was worried about

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Speaker 2: I just come out and all that, and just like

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Speaker 2: people are going to surmise what they think has happened.

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Speaker 2: And anyway, the police wanted me to bring it up

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Speaker 2: with him and see if he'd make some statements against

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Speaker 2: these people, because I've had other young kids who weren't

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Speaker 2: willing to meet the statements and their parents.

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Speaker 1: And I just put on record too here and that

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Speaker 1: I know the police officer that was involved in it.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they've said that first they're looking at everyone

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Speaker 1: with suspicion that's just the coop mentality, but they realize that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say that the police, a person that

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Speaker 2: I was in touch with, he was absolute champion. But

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Speaker 2: he's like, for as much as he could he put me,

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Speaker 2: he just said, you know you are not a suspect.

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Speaker 2: In the same we realized the reason we've come to

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Speaker 2: you where he realizes Aaron trusts you and he's in

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Speaker 2: a safe space here and he's been he's not been

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Speaker 2: checked at those people's places ever since he's been living here,

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Speaker 2: which is reassuring, but it's also not reassuring, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's just like they asked me if I because I

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Speaker 2: also knew that he had a real issue with authority

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Speaker 2: and talking to police.

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Speaker 1: And they asked you to help me to ask Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I I always say, it's giving my time over again,

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Speaker 2: it was this. I would have done exactly the opposite

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Speaker 2: to what I ended up doing. I said that I

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Speaker 2: would talk to him because I didn't even know what

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of that day. It was just like

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Speaker 2: it was a blurt. It was almost like it's it's

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Speaker 2: hard to explain my head being I just come out

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Speaker 2: as this gay man. I was just like I can

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Speaker 2: just see the newspapers.

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Speaker 1: Now, I just understandable.

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Speaker 2: I was just I was just getting ready to sign

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Speaker 2: a contract to go to not just with News Limit,

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Speaker 2: not with Super leg That wasn't the reason I went

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Speaker 2: to Townsburg because it was as far away from Sydney

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Speaker 2: as that. That's why I ended up going there anyway.

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Speaker 2: So Aaron come, you know, police left, Aaron came home,

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Speaker 2: told him and it's like one of those moments I

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Speaker 2: just wish, knowing what I know now, I just wish

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Speaker 2: that I said to the police officer that day, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to bring this up to He's in a

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Speaker 2: safe space now that he's working.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to destroy his life what you're carrying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just if I if I had said nothing

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Speaker 2: to Aaron, I'm sure that the boy was he would

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Speaker 2: still be alive.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I really wish that I just said, no, he's in

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Speaker 2: a safe space now. He's good. You know. He and

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Speaker 2: his mates would come around, and he had a girlfriend

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Speaker 2: at one stage, like it was. It's really it was

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Speaker 2: just going to things that he was really happy, like

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Speaker 2: things are good, like he was just.

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, he was just good kid, And

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Speaker 1: what the feelings that you've got the regrets. Is that

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Speaker 1: you the place wanted Jew to encourage him to give sentence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it says when he came home,

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Speaker 2: I had that conversation. This finding is really difficult. It

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Speaker 2: was the worse thing that was just it's it's talk

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Speaker 2: about I don't know how to say regrets not a

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Speaker 2: big enough word. But I just know now that I

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Speaker 2: just I really read him, I really read him down,

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Speaker 2: and like I feel like I've Yeah, at that moment,

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Speaker 2: it's still like I thought I was okay with this,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just talking about it. You know, it's just

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Speaker 2: like I really let him down. I just from the

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Speaker 2: person he trusted, He loved me, but he so respected me,

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Speaker 2: care about me. Yeah, I just let him down. I just.

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Speaker 1: Hindsight. You know, we're all wise with hindsight. I mean,

286
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Speaker 1: in that situation, you're trusting the police. The police obviously

287
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Speaker 1: trying to try and to do the right thing. It's

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Speaker 1: a kids being caught up in a situation and they're

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Speaker 1: trying to stop horrendous criminals. But yeah, you sit here

290
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Speaker 1: in hindsight, who knows how it turns out? And I see,

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Speaker 1: let me say this, I see a lot of people

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Speaker 1: when the murders have happened and situations have happened, and

293
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of self blame for the people left behind.

294
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Speaker 1: But look at what you're doing. You guys were helping

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Speaker 1: helping him get his life in order, pointing him in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. Come from friendship and care. So that's

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Speaker 1: not a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I hear, and I appreciate you saying that.

299
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Speaker 2: But the truth, I mean, the absolute truth is I

300
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Speaker 2: know the truth, and I just know that that wasn't

301
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Speaker 2: that was that, that wasn't my my soul motivation in

302
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Speaker 2: that point. It was terrified people that would jump to

303
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Speaker 2: the wrong conclusion, right, Yeah, that was and that's what

304
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Speaker 2: that's that's what hurts. I just knowing what I know

305
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Speaker 2: now and how things are, just like I wouldn't give

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Speaker 2: a fuck if everyone knew I thought I was like

307
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Speaker 2: a pedophile. It sounds awful like he'd still be a

308
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Speaker 2: lot like it. I don't even know how to explain it. Well,

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Speaker 2: I get what you're saying, so.

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Speaker 1: And I understand where you're coming from. And it's a

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Speaker 1: heavy heart. I'm sitting here listening to you beat up

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Speaker 1: on yourself yourself about it. And yeah, but also be

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Speaker 1: kind to yourself that at that time perfectly understandable what

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Speaker 1: you're going, what you were going going through that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary said, that set of circumstances you found

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Speaker 1: yourself in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's I do know. That conversation with Aaron

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Speaker 2: changed everything after that because he just he agreed to

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Speaker 2: make statements and I went to Townsville. I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: go out of Sydney. Yeah, he went downhill terribly, you know.

321
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Speaker 2: Yeah I wasn't there. Yeah, it's weird. I wasn't there,

322
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Speaker 2: Like I just I just wanted to be away, not

323
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Speaker 2: away from him. I was always thinking about him and

324
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Speaker 2: caring about him, but I was just terrified of you know,

325
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Speaker 2: I just turned up in Townsville. As they made me captain.

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Speaker 2: I just started saying. Just prior to Aaron moving just

327
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Speaker 2: after Aaron moved in, Shane and I had broken up. Sorry,

328
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Speaker 2: that was just prior to Aaron moving in. And then

329
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Speaker 2: just when I went to Townsville, I met another by

330
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Speaker 2: then my partner then Andrew. Andrew and I staid together

331
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Speaker 2: for six years and we're still best friends now. But

332
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Speaker 2: I always felt, yeah, I wish I was being being

333
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Speaker 2: clear and mate it is kind of weird.

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Speaker 1: I think in the way you're articulating it, it's understandable,

335
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Speaker 1: and I hear the heavy heart that you have with

336
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Speaker 1: it and the emotions that come with it, And yeah,

337
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Speaker 1: I can't change it. I can just but what I

338
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 1: can say is an experience as a homicide detectively, there's

339
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Speaker 1: not a murder I've seen where someone innocent that has

340
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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it blames themselves when it's all

341
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: said and done. For those that don't know that, after

342
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Speaker 1: you've moved up there, Aaron disappeared prior to giving evidence

343
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Speaker 1: against the pedophiles, and his skills or remains were found

344
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Speaker 1: not far from here at Saint Peter's.

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Speaker 2: That's terrible, you know how they it's awful. Even the

346
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 2: way they discovered that it was where they found out

347
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Speaker 2: that they that it was Aaron's body his knee because

348
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 2: he had such complications when I first meeting with his knee,

349
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 2: his knee had become quite deformed. It was like a

350
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: bulbous type of thing. Yeah, that's that's how they discovered

351
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 2: it was Ara's body, the Bible's knee. They didn't know

352
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: who it was at first.

353
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Speaker 1: How how did you process the whole thing, like when

354
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Speaker 1: you found out what had happened to him.

355
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,360
Speaker 2: He'd been like the last night. In fact, Aaron two

356
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 2: was in nine ninety seven. I was just preparing for

357
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 2: the member of the Try series that super leg used

358
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Speaker 2: to have.

359
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was for the I think it.

360
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: Was the second game and anyway, but I was just

361
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 2: packing my bag, getting ready to leave Townsville to go

362
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: into camp, and I got a phone call off a policement.

363
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 2: Aaron had been arrested again for stealing, and he wouldn't

364
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 2: talk to police. The only person who talked to was me,

365
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 2: so they'd phone me up and put him on and

366
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: I was trying to calm him down, but he was screaming.

367
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 2: He was angry at me by that stage as well,

368
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 2: like you know, which is quite entirely. He was so

369
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,160
Speaker 2: entitled to be that it just felt like he was alone.

370
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 2: He was saying that stuff, and I just I was

371
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 2: trying to convince him to to cooperate with with the police,

372
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 2: and he was saying a lie that I put him

373
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Speaker 2: in touch with. He disappeared three days later. That was it.

374
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Speaker 2: Aaron's body was found in two thousand and two. God, ed, uh,

375
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Speaker 2: it's just weird. It was just that was the last

376
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Speaker 2: time I spoke to him. It was He's one of

377
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,239
Speaker 2: those moments. What he said, he was so spot on,

378
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 2: like you know, I had so let him down, like

379
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 2: he disappeared, Like I said, three, he just left the

380
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 2: police station, disappeared. I supposed to give evidence three days later,

381
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 2: never turned up in court.

382
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 1: And the murder still unsolved. Yes, at this point they

383
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 1: had an inquest. You got dragged into the inquest.

384
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 2: The inquest was quite the process. And anyone who knows

385
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 2: anybody the currents in quest knows that there are interested parties.

386
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: You can ask your questions. Yes, a couple of those

387
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: parties were pedophiles, well suspected what one of them was suspected,

388
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: which is quite like intimidating the grubs. Yeah, I mean,

389
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: I don't know how else to say it, Mate, Like, yeah,

390
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: it's just it is. It's kind of the whole error,

391
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 2: not whole, the whole I nely I did it again,

392
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 2: said the whole our experiences. It's just an experience in

393
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: my life. It's just just you know, it's it's hard

394
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 2: to explain, but it's you don't do the right thing

395
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: because it's the right thing to do just do the

396
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 2: right thing. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah,

397
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 2: you don't do the right thing because it's the right

398
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 2: thing to do. Just do the right thing. And it's

399
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: one of those yeah consequences, you know, knock on effects.

400
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 1: It's a it's a heavy burden to carry for you.

401
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: And I hope you're not being too hard on yourself.

402
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 2: And yeah, well you know, we're doing a we're actually

403
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 2: like doing a docou on mate, which allows me to

404
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 2: speak about it, but like in depth.

405
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: And well I would be interested interested to say it

406
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: when when it comes out, because I know.

407
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: I've got to be honest. I thought I was this

408
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: is the first time I spoken about it for a while.

409
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: I thought I was ready to talk about but that

410
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: was yeah, yeah, I actually like I feel that waist

411
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 2: whatever that Yeah, maybe I'm I know.

412
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: Not it's you don't get people say you can get

413
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 1: closure from.

414
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: But I just want to say he was such a

415
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 2: good kid, mate. He was just you know, like every

416
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: time that people speak about our tragic well, he was

417
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 2: such a good kid. He was such a like a

418
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: life lively, funny, cheek cheek the cheefest. Yeah, he was

419
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: more of an adult than I was, you know, I.

420
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: Like the fact and you see a lot of the

421
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: kids around here in these type of areas in the

422
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: Housing Commission are street wise. But I like the fact

423
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: that the nine year old lay there in the hospital

424
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: can give it to you, big tough footballers coming in

425
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: and give you give your cheek. It says a lot

426
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: about the character.

427
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 2: Of the pr holl you know. But yeah, but he

428
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: was just a good.

429
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: Yes, well yeah, And I'm sure people have said, people

430
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: smarter than I have said, well, good on you for

431
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: making his life good for a period of period of time.

432
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: And again I feel fortunate that I.

433
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: Had a look at the case. Just what's on record,

434
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: and it's still unsolved at this stage, we've unsolved and

435
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: anyone that's got any information. And I saw some of

436
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: the stuff that went on at the inquest. I had

437
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: a bit of a look at that. And these convicted pedophiles,

438
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: and I've seen convicted pedophiles give evidence at cranial inquest.

439
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust a word they say. They'll give any

440
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: any respect. They're despicable human beings. How has it changed

441
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: you the way you look at life.

442
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: It's just just about of respect and judgment and just

443
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 2: like quality of life and just like I don't know,

444
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: like it sounds dicky, mate, enjoy the small things man,

445
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: you know, like like like just saying john Like like

446
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: I can say to you now because you know Johnny,

447
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 2: Like just saying Johnny the other day, Like make an

448
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: effort to get out and see it, just see people

449
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: see all like you know, like I have felt like

450
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: as you get older, you know your close off. But

451
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 2: for some reate like just being being being aware that

452
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: like you're going to reach out to people, just say

453
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: how they go you like, just like just stay in touch,

454
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: Like it's simple things.

455
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: I think you know, and we touch on Johnny and

456
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: you're not the first person who won't be the last

457
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: person that mentions him. I've had good guys, bad guys,

458
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: everyone come through and the amount of influence. But you

459
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: touch on something I hadn't really thought about with Johnny,

460
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: the effort he does make to reach out to people.

461
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: And he is always every day he's catching up with

462
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: someone or he'll just find you out of the blue

463
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: or whatever. And maybe that is part of the secret secret.

464
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: To laugh It is as you get older, mate, as

465
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: you like, particularly as you get all those like again,

466
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: you're like, you know, when when I said this before,

467
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: when you're twenty, you're never going to be sixty.

468
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.

469
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: My mom's eighty five. But I just like we spoke

470
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: of it before. Just my mom still has regrets in that,

471
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, like when I was talking about the way

472
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: I came out and stuff like that. You know, it's

473
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: like it's everything starts with a conversation, just like judgment,

474
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: like just don't be so, don't be so to judge,

475
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, we've all got shit.

476
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: Going on, and then no one, no one's perfect.

477
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you've heard all that before a thousand times.

478
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: But I think as you get old, it's just like,

479
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 2: you know, I'm mad, I'm wealthy in you've got nothing

480
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 2: to do with money. And that's how I feel, you know,

481
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: like I can say that quite openly, Like particularly the

482
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: last six months, and I bet the last six or

483
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: twelve months, I've felt like I had this whole different

484
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: like this this this awakening for me in life, and

485
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: just like how precious, how wonderful it is. My relationships

486
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: you know, with both my sisters, my brother and my mom,

487
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: I like the best they've ever been. I like, but

488
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: that that comes from making an effort and being aware that,

489
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,239
Speaker 2: Like you know, I have a wonderful relationship with my

490
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: partner and my partners like family, his mom and his

491
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: sister and her family.

492
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: Like have you said those twenty years.

493
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: Down in Bedianning nearly twenty years? Yeah, but I mean

494
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: even that, like you know, like I'm so grateful for that.

495
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I but you know, my my my ex partners,

496
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: like Andrew who we said, he's still in my life,

497
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: like he's someone I still love and care for, Shame

498
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 2: who passed away, like he was still in my life.

499
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that they're part of my family. And

500
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that my current partner, Dan feels like

501
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: he realizes, you know, that they're part of that part

502
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: of our family. I'm really grateful.

503
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: Well, you've done done well to get that, because there's

504
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: so many people that don't have that type of situation.

505
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: But if you've spent some time with people in a relationship,

506
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: it's sad if it goes sour, Yeah, I.

507
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: Mean I get things. Do you go so and all that,

508
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: you know, And again I'm not judging anyway, but I'm

509
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: just like I just I you know, I'm really grateful

510
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: for Andrew, because if I don't meet Andrew, I don't

511
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: meet Daniel, you know, like not but not only for

512
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: that reason, but you can think of it. I've been

513
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: very fortunate, mate.

514
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: Okay, a period of time that you've described as your

515
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: most content is when you went to Neither. So tell

516
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: us about that experience.

517
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: I loved it, mate, Like I Like I said, I

518
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: was always a show off as a kid. I was.

519
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: I used to love getting that there and and showing

520
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: off and running. I used to think I could. I

521
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: can't dance. Well that's not true.

522
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: Actually I'm checking the nights Dancing with the Stars.

523
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: I made the final mate always a bridesmaid, and yeah,

524
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: I was runner up. It was great, mate, it was

525
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: like I was. I was terrible, man, it was like,

526
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 2: but it was so much fun. Natalie Natalie Laye was

527
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: my partner, and that we had such a wonderful relate,

528
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: like just a really good friendship. And we started training

529
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: for that, like it's kind of a weird process. The

530
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: show runs runs for ten weeks, and we started training

531
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: back for that about about six weeks before the first episode.

532
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: And like I but again, it was a bit like

533
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: I've been through anighted by that stage, and I kind

534
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: of realized the art sort of thing. Sometimes you just

535
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: got to let things get into your body. And that's

536
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: what dancing is. You got to let it get into

537
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: your body. It's not you know, left foot right, foot

538
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: foot left or when if you're doing that, you're not dancing, you.

539
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, you just go of the flat. Yeah.

540
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it took me a while to understand that too.

541
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: And then about about seven weeks into the run of

542
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: the show, so you know, I've now been dancing with

543
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: nat for the third eight weeks and she was like

544
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: Australian champion, she'd been world champion. She was wonderful and

545
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: she was so patient with me. Is when I get

546
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: I had one of those moments, I said, I don't

547
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: know if I said when I was playing footy. Sometimes

548
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: you get into it. You had those stages in your

549
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: career where's supremely confident, you're in in that flow whatever.

550
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: You know. I've had those stages. You know, I've had

551
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: those moments on stage as well. When you think, oh,

552
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: I get it, I'm making everything, she kind of opens

553
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: up and like, I get it, I get what we're doing.

554
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: The same thing with the dancing thing. Like thirteen weeks

555
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: in we were doing the chacha. No it was a tango.

556
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: It was a tango, and I just remember like I

557
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: was just and it just kind of dropped in when

558
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: we're on air and just like I get this stuff.

559
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 2: Just just enjoy the music and just let it in

560
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: your body and that you're moving now like it was.

561
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: It was one of those really beautiful moments you just say, Yes,

562
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: I didn't learn to dance until week third e and

563
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: I want to say learned to dance.

564
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Understand, what the of all the things you've done? Total

565
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: respect for that, because I reckon I'd prefer to run

566
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: out against a pack of marauding forwards and do dancing

567
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: with the stars. That's let's But it was pressure.

568
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: Again again, Like I was lucky I hadn't that because

569
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: we were just having fun, right she like I was

570
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: like Franken start like yeah I was, and I was.

571
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: I was terrible, but uh it's almost like she built

572
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: she she created, Yeah, she created this monster. She molded it.

573
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: You know, got the work yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and

574
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: we you know, the good thing is because we were

575
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: having such a good time together and I was always

576
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: apologizing to it on air and saying that such an

577
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: uglhood like, but I was honest, like I just felt

578
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: like so like she was an incredible dance and she's

579
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: she's moving around with this, you know, like it was

580
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: me and it was just moving there and I'd like,

581
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: I think the audience kind of fed that. I was

582
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: just enjoying myself and we were just enjoying ourselves. I mean,

583
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: we used to score the lowest which we get loaded on.

584
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: We kept him by the audiences and Alo. It was wonderful, mate, that.

585
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: That comes across, doesn't It.

586
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: Got such a nice experience, mate, It was such at

587
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: I think in the final we we even't scored a ten.

588
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: We didn't deserve it, but we just had such a

589
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: good like it was she finally got that she was great. Man.

590
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: She was such a beautiful person.

591
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm good on you for having the game. Now, going

592
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: back to back to neither, what was it like going

593
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: from the culture of the football team into the creative

594
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: types in the artistic world.

595
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: It's good. Well, I went there as an inverted commas

596
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: mature age student because I you know, I went there

597
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: after I played footy and I'd already come out I

598
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: was going there as this guy had this public platfile

599
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: as a gay man like sports person. There was a

600
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: lot of you know, and I don't I don't blame

601
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: the doubters. Originally a lot of teachers thought it was

602
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: a bit of a pr thing maybe, you know, and

603
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: I totally understand that. But but Kevin Jackson, who I

604
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: spoke about before, had total confidence in me, and that

605
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: that kind of gave me confidence because I knew how

606
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: well respected Kevin was in the industry. Yes it was,

607
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,959
Speaker 2: and because I was the youngest person in our class.

608
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: Roum was seven eight seven eight or eighty seven eight,

609
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: I think it was, and the oldest apart from me,

610
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: I think Chris about twenty six twenty seven. I was

611
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 2: much old. I was about thirty four thirty five, right,

612
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: But I think going there as a mature, like I said,

613
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: as a bit older it kind of gone. It did

614
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: help me because you know, I mean, I was being serious.

615
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: I was going there with full in time, giving it

616
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: my best shop. But you know, this wasn't rockets, we

617
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: weren't saving lives.

618
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: This is.

619
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: Really and create creativity. And a lot of the younger

620
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: people thought, you know, this is then their make or

621
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: break time. This is when they had that this the

622
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: next three years they were going to get from here

623
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: to Hollywood type thing. And I understand the intensity and

624
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: they were like so intense, like used to blow me away,

625
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: just how focused. So I think we kind of benefited

626
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: each other. They've and we've since spoken about it. We

627
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: had our twentieth anniversary a couple of years ago. We

628
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: all got together. The twenty five people who were in

629
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: the class twenty three came to the well speak. We stayed.

630
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: We stayed. We're still in touch with each other. We

631
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: have a WhatsApp thing we all stay. So it's pretty good.

632
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: Out of twenty twenty five, twenty three of us is

633
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: still in touch and we're all still good friends. And

634
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: even though I've said that me being a bit older

635
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: did kind of help them too, because I did did

636
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: butt heads a couple of times with some people, some teachers,

637
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: and they just like, you know, for whatever reason, I

638
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: was a dickhead as well. No, but just feeding off

639
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: their energy, that their total commitment and the way they

640
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: surrendered to these these like movement classes and stuff like

641
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: I was a bit like scratching head whatever, you know,

642
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: it's true, right, like all this stuff, but they totally

643
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: surrendered to her. And it's not until again one of

644
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: those moments when you allow yourself to go there, Oh,

645
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: I kind of get this now. It was like I

646
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: kind of understand, Like I didn't quite understand it, but

647
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: I kind of did. Then in the second year, it

648
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: was second year, even like the first year, I had

649
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: this moment. I was with Kate Box, who's quite a

650
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: well known actor now, Kate Champion, she's fantastic actress. We're

651
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 2: doing this I'm trying to think the name of the play.

652
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: I can't think anyway, but Kate was I was. She

653
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: was a female lead and I was a mile lead

654
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: and we're in this scene together. And because i'd learned

655
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: my lines and it was the end of the first year,

656
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: was the first play we've done, I'd ever done. But

657
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: I remember being like on stage with her, and I

658
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: had this moment. I just kind of had to check

659
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: myself because I really because she was so good, right,

660
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: Like she was so fantasy. But they all were like

661
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: I always like the novice here, right, they were all

662
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: so good. I didn't know who I was. I was

663
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: just like, I don't know, Kate, are you? I don't

664
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: know if I was talking to Kate Box or the

665
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: character or it was just like she was so real.

666
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: I got like kind of threw me, Like it really

667
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: threw me. I didn't know where I was or I

668
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: was just like I don't know, I didn't know how

669
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: to respond. But she's just been the act like she's fantastic, right.

670
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: It was one of those moments I kind of like

671
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: it kind of scratched the surface for me a bit

672
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: and I kind of just got to peer in and

673
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: see this other world. It's like, oh my god, if

674
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: I can do that this And then in the second year,

675
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: I had one of those wonderful moments where it just dropped.

676
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: Like again, just that that one moment. If I'm comparing

677
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: it to sport, where you were in complete control, it's

678
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: just like complete confidence, you know, like it just dropped in.

679
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: I was on stage. It was an irish it'll come

680
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: to me anyway, but but I just dropped and I

681
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: just like, I get this. It was almost like, oh

682
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: my god, everything slowed down. It was like this perfect

683
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: I was totally aware of the audience and their responses

684
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: and and the other people on stage and how we're

685
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: all working together, and there was this overhang of what

686
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: the actual picture that the story was about. It was

687
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 2: almost like, oh my god, I can see this whole

688
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: of the world. It's just been opened up to me.

689
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: And that's what the arts do. And then I said

690
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: that about dancing and later like it's the arts are

691
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: amazing for creativity and just being giving you an insight

692
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: into seeing other stuff that you know, like I was blind,

693
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: Like I really like something. I kind of feel like

694
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 2: before I went to night, I was seeing the world

695
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: in black and white.

696
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like it sounds a bit weird, but I

697
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: get what you're saying.

698
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: It was like it was this whole other world that

699
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: got opened to me that I had been living alongside.

700
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: And I would I'd never dip my toe in the

701
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: in the in the.

702
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: You've gone from ex dreams because they must have done

703
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: something right, because you've you've had a good body of

704
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: work with films and yeah, I mean.

705
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: We speak about this too. I mean I've been I've

706
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: been quite lucky. But you know, in truth, if I

707
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: had to survive on my acting checks, I quite hungry,

708
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I mean I have,

709
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: like I said, twenty years now, but I have been

710
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: working on off consistently for twenty years.

711
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: To drop some of the movies. You have made appearances

712
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: on TV shows.

713
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: It sounds a bit dicky saying Superman and in furios. Yeah,

714
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: there's been a whole load of like like small I

715
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: mean when I went over in the States, I did

716
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: like thirty movies in the States or like most of

717
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 2: them were B grade. I was there for about four years. Yeah, yeah,

718
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: but I had some leaves over movies like Saltwater, Like

719
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: it's even doing those smaller B grade in some of

720
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: them with slasher movies. But it was how do I

721
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: explain this? It kind of scratches it. You get like

722
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: as a performer that the creativity and I'm not like

723
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 2: now started well, I have been writing for a long time,

724
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: but but having stuff that's actually being acknowledged, like it

725
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: sounds a bit I'm not padding themself.

726
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: Well, you're starting to annoy me. You're a high achiever.

727
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: We tick off the football, Yeah, play played for the country,

728
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: and the movies that you've started you started writing. You've

729
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: got the award just last year for writing a play.

730
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.

731
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: Into the Light. It's a play that that I started writing.

732
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: I started writing about five years ago, and then another

733
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: friend came aboard and we got it. Yes, it's just

734
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: picked up. We're trying to get it produced up on stage.

735
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: But it's even that type of thing. It's it is again.

736
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: You know I said before that I've been living alongside

737
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: that these other worlds that I never even the writing. Well,

738
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: like it's another one of those things you get to

739
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: I get to glimpse into this other world and it's

740
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: this of creativity. And you know, the one thing I

741
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: couldn't read and write at school and the one thing

742
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: I look back now that I that if I had

743
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: my time over and I kind of knew as a

744
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: young person some of the stuff that I've that I've learned,

745
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 2: I would learn to play musical instrument and learn another language. Yeah,

746
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: that's two things I really wish I'd spent some time doing.

747
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: You don't have an appreciation of what that can bring

748
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: to your life if you pick up a skill skill

749
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: set like that.

750
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just the way it opens it gives opportunities

751
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: or insight into other stuff that you're not even aware of,

752
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: you know, Like I just education, education, education, education, It's

753
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: like it's it's our means.

754
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: And broad tolerance Braden's minds and it's wonderful.

755
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 2: Mate.

756
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting the experiences you've gone from different worlds.

757
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: And I found it invigorating when my career and the

758
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: Cops entered, and then I ended up into in the media,

759
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: entertainment and different things, and it's like a new lease

760
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: of life. And yeah, I think we're saying before we

761
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: came on, I love hanging out with creative people like it.

762
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: And in the Cops it was a lot of black

763
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: and white thinking. A few people were creative and yeah,

764
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: but all said and done, it was a lot of

765
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: black and white thinking. And then come into a different

766
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: world and you've got these creative times.

767
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: It's fascinating being around other people and you know, just

768
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: reading a script and then you reading the script and

769
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: then them reading being in the room with them reading

770
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: the script and they see something completely different and you're like,

771
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: oh my god, how didn't I see that? Like, oh

772
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: my god, I didn't see that color. I've missed all

773
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 2: that texture. You know, I've missed that whole other world

774
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: that you've just created, you know what I mean, Like

775
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: stuff like that, stuff like that is like and that's

776
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: what I mean. They're having these whole, like other worlds

777
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: I never knew existed.

778
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: Well, the first article I wrote for the papers that

779
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: read like a flat a fact sheet and yeah, okay,

780
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: you got to broaden it up. When you went there,

781
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: what was the color of the house or what were

782
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: the steps like that you walked up? Instead, it was

783
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: at such and such a time. So I had to

784
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: change the way, as you've said, the way you look

785
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: at life, because I've got to look at the broader picture.

786
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: Before it was just the facts and that was my writing.

787
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: So that's what I love. Theater made. I mean, it

788
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: was just like you know that you would hope I

789
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: mean theater the group I'm a part of court think

790
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: about it, you know, like theater is about you know,

791
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: it's it's you would hope a good theater production that

792
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: you go and say, open your mind that make them laugh,

793
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: make them cry, and make them think. You know what

794
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: I mean. That's you know, like and seeing it visually

795
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: and in touch and you know, like always there's the

796
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: fourth wall and all that, but you're still connect like

797
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: it's that's what I mean. It's like the connection you

798
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: have with the actors and you're sitting in front and

799
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: I love like film.

800
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: And what you're doing with that, that work that you're

801
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: doing there, Where are you Where are you doing?

802
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: We started are doing that with with the n r L,

803
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: just touching on you know, they they're still having problems

804
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: with their players or having problems with their players fifteen

805
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: years ago, and that they just wanted some sort of

806
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: program where they could talk about this stuff and hopefully

807
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: educate they there was a thing that was being done,

808
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: not the same, somewhat similar. They'd seen this thing in

809
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: the US where where players that players had got up

810
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: on stage and they'd acted out some stuff in pro

811
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: and so we kind of developed something not the same,

812
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: this is much more engaging, uh. And it was you know,

813
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: and we were speaking about about stuff that you know,

814
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: that were it was uncomfortable for players to speak about openly.

815
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: But we used a lot of We use a lot

816
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: of humor, I said before, We speak about stuff like,

817
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: you know, like wilence towards women, misogyny, drugs in sport, homophobia, bullying,

818
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: like it's stuff that you know, like the way you

819
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: spend your money, and you know, like security, like a

820
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: whole lot of different stuff. But and then we get

821
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: some players up involved and in the scenes, the actors

822
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: on stage, we know where it's driving through, so we

823
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: keep them on, we keep them in check. We're driving

824
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: forward and then we have a discussion. But again we

825
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: use a lot of humor and we make fun of

826
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: ourselves all the time, so it's but it's serious stuff.

827
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: You know, a good way to get a message.

828
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: Yes, it's been fantastic. Like since doing the NRL, you know,

829
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: we now do the a f L, the aau A League, basketball,

830
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 2: most of the major sports contact sports in Australia. We

831
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: also do corporations. We're doing the Australian Border Force at

832
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: the moment, we've done all the whole out of banks,

833
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: a lot of corporations.

834
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: If people want to reach out to.

835
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: Think about it, dot com, think about it. Yeah, it's

836
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 2: it's it's it's been really really successful and it's great

837
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: because you get to touch base and speak with people

838
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 2: still involved creatively and in the sporting world.

839
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: It's good, good, good combination.

840
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: It's good and it's creative. It's also part of the

841
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: creative process as well.

842
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another thing that you've spoken out about concussion injuries

843
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: in football. What's your take on that then, what's the

844
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: impact that it's had on you because you've experienced it

845
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: and you're going through it.

846
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: When I was over in the States, I was in

847
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: the States from about twenty twelve to twenty fifteen, and

848
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: a few other times for six months. A few other

849
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: times in between those periods, I mean I was always

850
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: pretty good. I started noticing I had an issue with

851
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: my memory. Was when I was over in the States.

852
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: I was always pretty good with auditions, getting the stuff

853
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 2: down and getting in and then being able to play

854
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: around with the lines during the process. So I wasn't

855
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: I didn't have to worry about recalling the lines all

856
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: the time. I could worry about what was actually happening

857
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 2: in the same I just started to feel a bit

858
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: like it's things just didn't seem a sharp for a

859
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: little while. Then I had a couple of episodes where

860
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: I lost time. What I mean by that was I

861
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: was driving the car. The first time I was driving

862
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: the car. Then I kind of lost two hours. I

863
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: was at home. Nothing had happened to me, obviously, because

864
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: I got home. I just lost two hours. And another time,

865
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: about two weeks later, I was in the shower and

866
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: then I was on the bed eating my dinner, and

867
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 2: a couple of hours had passed by and I just

868
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: couldn't remember. The second time was much scarier than the

869
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: first time. I just thought maybe i'd I don't know,

870
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: like it was kind of weird just to wait, just

871
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 2: to come to somewhere. But I my dad got sick.

872
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: I came back to Australia, my dad passed away, and

873
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 2: I ended up going having some tests and I saw

874
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: there was a little bit of damage there in my

875
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: reactive time and that wasn't as good as sharp as

876
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: it should have been. And again I just I came

877
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: back to the audition and the process of learning lines.

878
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: I just didn't feel as sharp as what I normally.

879
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: That's what how I knew saying was going on. I

880
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: just wasn't as confident. Yeah, that was a bit of

881
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: a worry. Then I had a couple more episodes middle

882
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: of last year. Fainted a couple of times. One of

883
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: those was like a heart attack. I had a different

884
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: lay to put in.

885
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: I just.

886
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: And the reason I had that put in not the reason.

887
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: But I was as soon as I said, look, you know,

888
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: we we think you should have a defibrillator. My ex

889
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: partner Shane, who I've spoken about a lot of this thing.

890
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: He passed away. He had a heart attack last year

891
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: and we spoke. But he had a condition he had,

892
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: he had a heart and I said to the doctor,

893
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: would he have been okay if it had something like this,

894
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: he would have stood a chance. And I said, I

895
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: just put it in them, mate, just like that, don't

896
00:46:54,239 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: get it done. So. But I've also been diagnosed with

897
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 2: with I fainted a couple of times. I trained a

898
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: couple of times. That's how this thing. I fainted a

899
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: couple of times, and they were hard things. They won't

900
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: just me fainting situation with my heart. I ended up

901
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: in hospital having a whole load of testing and I

902
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: but I kept losing time. I had a couple of

903
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: more episodes of losing time and that's They put that

904
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 2: down to epilepsy, which is fine, like it's but I've

905
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: now found the right ballance of my medication. And I'm good,

906
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 2: like what I say, I'm good. I don't drive anymore anymore.

907
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: But that's my memory.

908
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: And this is a byproduct.

909
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: You think from the I have like that that they

910
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: can't be sure any of this stuff. I am absolutely myself.

911
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: I am absolutely sure it is. I'm still you know,

912
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: like I said about my memory and that I do

913
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: a lot of cognitive training and that that type of thing.

914
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's if it's purely placebo thing,

915
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 2: but I always feel better about myself staying on ye

916
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: brain training, about staying on top of lake and even

917
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: doing the auditions and that stuff. I like to do

918
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: them now even though I'm not. I just like, I

919
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: just feel like I'm doing something about it. I'm fully

920
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: open to like, you know, like I'm not. I don't

921
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: feel regretful about playing foot or anything like that. Just

922
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: this is just the situation. I think we need to

923
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: talk about it. I do think there needs to be

924
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: a conversation about mate.

925
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: You do you think the league of getting it right

926
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: or can they be there's an awareness now on the

927
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: concussion injury and bringing the player off And do you

928
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: think they're finding.

929
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 2: They've started that they've started. I mean, I think there's

930
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: that there probably need to be more real changes at

931
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: some point that the head area does have to be

932
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: protected at all costs, you know, like because there are complications,

933
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: you know, like that's the truth of it. You know,

934
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: it's a price price you pay. Yeah, And I don't

935
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 2: know what the answer is, I mean, I love rugby legs.

936
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: It's like boxing, you know, like.

937
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: I can't I love boxing logic.

938
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you get points for hitting someone in the head,

939
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 2: for knocking someone out. The idea is, you know, hopefully

940
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: you knock something that's not a good thing, you know,

941
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: like it's quite yeah, literally not a good.

942
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: And the trouble is, as you said, there's twenty. You

943
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: never think you're going to make sixty, so you're not

944
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: really worried about it.

945
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: You're not going to make sixty. You never think you're

946
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: going to be sixty. It's just like that's never going

947
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: to happen, you know. I mean it's not that I'm

948
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: like that's that's I'm never going to get old. Yeah,

949
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: But I mean I'm in a good spot. I do think,

950
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like I'm comfortable in myself. I

951
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: think I you know, like the last the last few

952
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: months of my life, I've felt like I'm in a

953
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: really good spot. Now I'm really grateful. I feel like

954
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: I don't it soundstcky, but I do feel like incredibly fortunate,

955
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: grateful for you know, I have a wonderful relationship. I

956
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: keep saying, like with my with my mom, and my

957
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: brother and sister and the close friends. I feel like

958
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: I have a really good family in it. Dan, fantastic.

959
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: I just I'm just really grateful. I just and and

960
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: what you said before, I sometimes you know, you hit

961
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 2: the expression expression and pitching and I've been so lucky,

962
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: like the creative but like like I do, like I

963
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: have had so many experiences like peaks and valles, peaks

964
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: and valleys, peaks and valleys, and there's still peaks and

965
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: valleys and when you hit the valleys everything things that

966
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: the cave. But like I found, as I've gotten older,

967
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: you kind of realize, I just time, time seems to stretch,

968
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: like you know, like it's just like you can be

969
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: really in a really dark place. Just give it time,

970
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: your things will and you kind of accept this is

971
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: what I've got to go through to get to get better.

972
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: I've got to process or whatever it is, the sadness

973
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. Yep, I've just got to sit

974
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: with it and process it.

975
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: It makes sense to me. I always look at the

976
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: life that there's going to be the layer points. And

977
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: if you think you're going to go through life without

978
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: a lay point, you haven't really lived a life. You're

979
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: going to have your eyes, You're going to have your layers.

980
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, everything moves on, like everything like everything moves on.

981
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: Well, you look like you're in a good space. You've

982
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: got a good energy and I think you know in

983
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: all what you've done and the burden that you've carried,

984
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: and it was a burden and dismiss it now, but

985
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: coming out in rugby league at the time that you

986
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: did that was a burden, that was a responsibility. But

987
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: I think you've made the world a better place for

988
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: people who they are following you.

989
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: I've been very fortunate. Thank you.

990
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I've loved having you on Eye Catch Killers.

991
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: It's been a great chat and good old Johnny's brought

992
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: more people together.

993
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: Is a champion, Yeah, absolutely champion.

994
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the best for the future and endeavors.

995
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 2: I'll keep you, I keep you up to speed with

996
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: the dog out on that.

997
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that it's an important, important story

998
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: to be told and yeah, very powerful, powerful story. But

999
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: thanks so much. H