Speaker 1: Appogie production.
Speaker 2: Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses.
Speaker 1: Do you need to burn out to have those insights?
Speaker 1: While I'm talking about it now, But you know, came
Speaker 1: to educate the world about it.
Speaker 2: But I didn't want anyone to know that I was
Speaker 2: so unwell.
Speaker 1: I don't know when it was ever okay to yell
Speaker 1: or scream or abuse somebody.
Speaker 2: We need to have support and know where to look
Speaker 2: for support, and know how to look after ourselves, not
Speaker 2: just professionally, but personally as well. It was quite profound
Speaker 2: and I learned a lot from that one action. I
Speaker 2: particularly wanted to have you come on board because you
Speaker 2: were one of the most influential people in my nursing career.
Speaker 2: You were a mental to me when I first became
Speaker 2: a Richter nurse, and I have watched you move up
Speaker 2: through the ranks of nursing, and I know there are
Speaker 2: times that's been really tough and other times, you know,
Speaker 2: full of joy and that sort of stuff that nursing
Speaker 2: is known for. But I wanted to have a chat
Speaker 2: to you about where you've come from, what you did
Speaker 2: to get to where you are, but also some of
Speaker 2: the pearls of wisdom. You think you could impart on
Speaker 2: younger nurses, older nurses as well in wanting to start
Speaker 2: a nursing korea and looking after themselves well.
Speaker 1: From a little girl, I always wanted to be a nurse.
Speaker 1: I consider nursing to be a vocation and that is
Speaker 1: always a very controversial conversation these days, considering where the
Speaker 1: profession has taken us now into this current times. Beginning
Speaker 1: of my career, I start at ryal Brisbane Hospital, I
Speaker 1: can now say in another century and when things were very,
Speaker 1: very different the way that nursing is now grew up
Speaker 1: in the marster and apprentice scenario there, so a nurses
Speaker 1: was basically seen and not heard. We were student nurses
Speaker 1: working in the woods from the day that we actually commenced.
Speaker 1: In our career, I've worked inariety of facilities, both public
Speaker 1: and private throughout Queensland, within the regional setting and also
Speaker 1: within the metro areas as well too. Working within both
Speaker 1: systems has provided me with a lot of opportunity to
Speaker 1: really understand how the variations of nursing and how different
Speaker 1: staff go through a variety of things. My initial background
Speaker 1: in nursing at my major first club was theater nursing,
Speaker 1: which is where I met you, Rebecca. I walked into
Speaker 1: an operating theater back in nineteen seventy eight and I thought,
Speaker 1: this is it. I'm home. I love the scrubs, I
Speaker 1: love the masks, I love being in that environment where
Speaker 1: I really took on that I was actually helping these people.
Speaker 1: They came in with conditions and parts of their bodies
Speaker 1: that weren't working, and we were able to make them better.
Speaker 1: That career assigned me can take a variety of different ways.
Speaker 1: Within the next number of years, I went into repping.
Speaker 1: At one stage, I've set up and run day surgery facilities,
Speaker 1: worked in a private hospital as a registered nurse. But
Speaker 1: also within that process there looked at other things that
Speaker 1: what actually affected myself in my own daily life and
Speaker 1: what else could I do to give back to nursing
Speaker 1: and back to the staff that I was working with.
Speaker 1: I became a workplace self and safety officer. I also
Speaker 1: became a BLS trainer. Took notice then of accreditation about
Speaker 1: what was happening with in that space as well too,
Speaker 1: because these things actually interested me. But was it over
Speaker 1: and above what I was doing. But the stuff that
Speaker 1: I wanted to know about that, I wanted to learn.
Speaker 1: My pathway took me to various other areas to where
Speaker 1: a point. Now I work not implivate anymore, but working
Speaker 1: with a whole range of nurses in a very different
Speaker 1: field to theaters, but certainly to still see the passion
Speaker 1: and the compassion that is required and needed every day
Speaker 1: for nurses to do what they do and to keep
Speaker 1: coming back the next day.
Speaker 2: You've seen some huge changes, and you know, being at
Speaker 2: the age of seventeen because I started at PA and
Speaker 2: laying out people that have passed away, and you know
Speaker 2: those little processes you do when someone passes just I think,
Speaker 2: so you can cope to where nursing is now. It's
Speaker 2: polar opposite snelly, isn't it?
Speaker 1: It is, Rebecca, But we still have some things that
Speaker 1: are exactly the same. We still need to lay out
Speaker 1: people when they've gone on to the next part of
Speaker 1: their journey, adults and children's alike and everyone in between,
Speaker 1: and that respect needs to be remaining within there. So
Speaker 1: those basic fundamentals of nursing. What's within our remit What
Speaker 1: can we do with nurses? What do we do with nurses?
Speaker 1: We look after people, We care for them when they
Speaker 1: aren't able to do so for themselves. We look after
Speaker 1: them and we answer their questions as best we possibly
Speaker 1: can to make sure that they have the understanding of
Speaker 1: what is actually wrong with them, and we include them
Speaker 1: in that to make sure that we know that they
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Language is a big thing within nursing,
Speaker 1: in all professions and all areas of life. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: nurses have their own language. Patients don't know that language.
Speaker 1: They don't understand what we actually saying. I heard a
Speaker 1: funny story a number of years ago from someone who
Speaker 1: told me that they contacted a family member who was
Speaker 1: so upset because they were diagnosed with hypertension and they
Speaker 1: actually thought that they were going to die. When it
Speaker 1: was explained to them it was just a little bit
Speaker 1: of blood pressure and they could take medication to be
Speaker 1: able to sort that through. They fully understand that, but
Speaker 1: that person for that length of time had a real
Speaker 1: concern about their mortality and what was happening with them.
Speaker 1: So understanding that we have our own language and that
Speaker 1: people don't know our language is very very important for
Speaker 1: us as well too. So those things haven't fundamentally changed
Speaker 1: technology as we're seeing right here today. To be able
Speaker 1: to reach out to everybody on this podcast is just extraordinary.
Speaker 1: To be able to do that from where we are now,
Speaker 1: that wasn't heard of, not even five or six years ago.
Speaker 1: Per Sae. It was there, but not to the extent
Speaker 1: that it is here now. COVID came and COVID still here,
Speaker 1: but it changed how our technology is utilized, how we
Speaker 1: see nursing and how we see each other, how we
Speaker 1: now interact with each other, and to find that collegiality
Speaker 1: and to maintain that connectedness that we need to do
Speaker 1: with patients is really super important. I found that one
Speaker 1: of the big things during COVID was the great barrier
Speaker 1: to everything was having to wear a mask. So you
Speaker 1: have people who are hard of hearing, you have people
Speaker 1: who mumble. We have known curtains who do mumble. Rebecca,
Speaker 1: it's almost best guess, but not what you're doing as
Speaker 1: well too. But so for patients, different language backgrounds, those
Speaker 1: types of things. So it was really difficult for nurses
Speaker 1: as a whole to actually get through that. But then
Speaker 1: how do we express ourselves while still wearing a mask.
Speaker 1: It's in touch, it's in feel, it's in eye contact
Speaker 1: and those things are vitally vitally important, and those things
Speaker 1: have not changed.
Speaker 2: Now. One of my clients is a speech pathologist, and
Speaker 2: the number of kids that were born during that time
Speaker 2: that are coming through with serious speech issues and learning
Speaker 2: how to talk. Because everyone was wearing masks, I didn't
Speaker 2: think about that. I was like, oh, my god, of course,
Speaker 2: you know, it makes sense. It was quite interesting. So
Speaker 2: I can imagine someone hard of hearing, or sick in bed,
Speaker 2: or just imagine how frightening it might have been for them,
Speaker 2: especially with people who are in full ppe.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's all very sort of you know sci fi
Speaker 1: travels As an area it was as.
Speaker 2: A nurse practitioner, it was fantastic having telehealth. I was
Speaker 2: able to do vaccinations. I had lots of people having
Speaker 2: consultations through telehealth that normally wouldn't have reached out to
Speaker 2: me because I couldn't obviously do the cosmetic side of dermatology.
Speaker 2: But it was awesome to have people bring up and go, oh,
Speaker 2: my acne has fled up so badly, can you give
Speaker 2: me a hand? Able to still see them over skype.
Speaker 2: It gave you a purpose. It was really great to
Speaker 2: be able to still help people, and especially when GPS
Speaker 2: and that were so under the pump, it was pretty
Speaker 2: cool to be a nurt practitioner and have that ability
Speaker 2: to continue to help people outside of that hospital space
Speaker 2: and keep people out of hospitals and doctor surgeries and
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. It was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And it's changed the way that we're going to see
Speaker 1: health going forward into the future as well.
Speaker 2: I believe so, kath in your position, dealing and managing
Speaker 2: with staff is paramount for you. What do you or
Speaker 2: your organization do to keep your staff physically, emotionally, and psychologically.
Speaker 1: We'll start with the obvious one is occupational violence. Occupational
Speaker 1: violence appears to me to have actually been on the
Speaker 1: increase over the last number of years. I don't have
Speaker 1: any understanding or reasoning why that would actually be. We
Speaker 1: can see all the advertising now sort of you know,
Speaker 1: we're just a human being, We're just like you. We've
Speaker 1: got a job to do. Please don't abuse our staff.
Speaker 1: It's everywhere you go to now, even in the shops.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't accept any bad language, no yelling,
Speaker 1: and those sort of bits and pieces. And I truly
Speaker 1: do wonder about how our society has actually got to
Speaker 1: that point, I don't know when it was ever okay
Speaker 1: to yell or scream or abuse somebody. It's never was
Speaker 1: in my lifetime to be I was never brought up
Speaker 1: that way, So I don't know why now, just because
Speaker 1: you're not getting your own way all some things aren't
Speaker 1: going in your particular way that you feel or some
Speaker 1: people do feel that it's okay to abuse the person
Speaker 1: in front of you, and I can't understand where that's
Speaker 1: actually come from. Occupational violence not just verbal, it's also
Speaker 1: physical as well too. With our aging population, and we're
Speaker 1: continuing to keep people alive for a lot longer to
Speaker 1: see an increase in dementia patients. Having had my mother
Speaker 1: go through dementia, she didn't know what she was saying
Speaker 1: most of the time. I spent most of my time
Speaker 1: apologizing to stuff because of my mother and the words
Speaker 1: that she was saying. So we need to understand that
Speaker 1: and probably separate that out from people who are choosing
Speaker 1: to be verbally aggressive to people. It's up to individual areas, groups,
Speaker 1: organizations to be able to find the best way to
Speaker 1: support their staff by asking their stuff, what do they
Speaker 1: really need? That alludes to the physical and also to
Speaker 1: the psychological side of things and to the emotional we
Speaker 1: have introduced quite recently. I to say the last couple
Speaker 1: of years is a hot debrief after any major situation,
Speaker 1: But should that go down to an end of day
Speaker 1: debrief about making sure that staff are okay when they
Speaker 1: do leave work and if there actually are okay when
Speaker 1: they come to work. We carry emotional baggage no matter
Speaker 1: how hard and how much we say, leave it at home.
Speaker 1: You don't bring that stuff work, we can't help not to.
Speaker 1: And then for each person it's very very individual. So
Speaker 1: we found that the debriefs have been highly beneficial been
Speaker 1: rolled out now in a variety of other situations and scenarios.
Speaker 1: Though I said, I do believe that an end of
Speaker 1: day debrief or I go home chat or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, or a team huddle is really
Speaker 1: super important for people to be able to understand and
Speaker 1: clarify and clear up anything that's occurred during the work hours.
Speaker 1: That helped with the emotional side of things, but also
Speaker 1: looking out for those warning signs and they are there
Speaker 1: if we choose to see there lies a huge issue though,
Speaker 1: so we could be looking glossing over what we're not
Speaker 1: actually seeing Are they not engaging? If you are doing
Speaker 1: a homebound huddle or something like that, who's not participating,
Speaker 1: who's looking sideways, who's looking distracted? Do you have the
Speaker 1: skills yourself or you have the ability to gain or
Speaker 1: source the skills to be able to support that person
Speaker 1: going forward? If I ask somebody truly, are somebody are
Speaker 1: you okay today? And they say to me, well, actually,
Speaker 1: cath no, I'm not. How am I going to respond
Speaker 1: to that? Am I emotionally stay able to be able
Speaker 1: to do that? Do I have the skills to be
Speaker 1: able to do that? But how am I going to
Speaker 1: respond to that? So it keeps that person safe, but
Speaker 1: it also keeps me safe as well too.
Speaker 2: We are empathetic to everybody else except to other nurses often.
Speaker 2: How do we change that dialogue?
Speaker 1: How do we.
Speaker 2: Encourage nurses to feel safe sharing that information and then
Speaker 2: getting the support that's needed for them without every Tom,
Speaker 2: Dick and Harry finding out and then blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and you know, the gossip chain starts.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So the old adage is we eat our own.
Speaker 1: I'm very very sad to say that that's still part
Speaker 1: and parcel a major part of nursing. We ask people
Speaker 1: to come into the profession, and then we turn around
Speaker 1: and we treat them dreadfully. I think you have to
Speaker 1: be fully aware and be honest with yourself how others
Speaker 1: see you. You know, if you're truly honest with yourself,
Speaker 1: what would your colleagues say about you? And understand that
Speaker 1: and accept that? And if it's not what you want
Speaker 1: it to be, we have to change. You have to
Speaker 1: change that. I have to change that for myself. I
Speaker 1: can't change anybody except for my own thoughts and feelings.
Speaker 1: So I have to be truly reflective about my behavior,
Speaker 1: about the way that I see things, and I speak
Speaker 1: and express myself to staff and to my colleagues, no
Speaker 1: matter who they are. Oftentimes I tell people, what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts when you wake up at half past three
Speaker 1: or half past four in the morning, it's just you
Speaker 1: and the universe sitting there, how do you actually feel
Speaker 1: about how your day work yesterday? What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: and feelings in and around that we've always spoken about.
Speaker 1: I was brought up to be kind and to be polite,
Speaker 1: But what has been kind and polite mean to other people?
Speaker 1: How does that actually look for each of us? That's
Speaker 1: making time to be with people. That's making time to hear,
Speaker 1: not just listen, but to actually hear what they are
Speaker 1: saying and trying to say to you. My senior role,
Speaker 1: by the title of it, alludes to they're a scary person,
Speaker 1: and I've tried extraordinarily hard over my years in the
Speaker 1: senior role to make that only an illusion, to give
Speaker 1: them an understanding that whilst I am a senior nurse,
Speaker 1: at the crux of it all, I'm Kathy Flannig and
Speaker 1: I'm a registered nurse.
Speaker 2: So just like you, I mean me knowing you and
Speaker 2: having worked with you and under you, having a huge
Speaker 2: amount of respect for you, are other organizations as aware
Speaker 2: as what you are?
Speaker 1: The empathy side of things, we speak about it an
Speaker 1: awful lot how we enacted on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1: I don't see that happening in an awful lot we
Speaker 1: do say, and I hear it all the time from people.
Speaker 1: I'm like that, But that's where I go back to that.
Speaker 1: What's that true self reflection? How do others actually see you?
Speaker 1: Do you accept and understand what feedback is being provided
Speaker 1: to you. There's been a variety of different programs over
Speaker 1: the time about trying to give feedback to people to
Speaker 1: help them to understand how they are perceived by other people.
Speaker 1: I can't change human nature, beck I'd love to in
Speaker 1: a variety of areas, but there are some people who,
Speaker 1: for what they've come from, for where they've been, they
Speaker 1: find it very, very difficult to change any part of that,
Speaker 1: and they've got themselves into, oftentimes a niche role where
Speaker 1: to their power and importance is the most fundamental part
Speaker 1: of their being. I will say the word dominance, but
Speaker 1: their dominance over other staff.
Speaker 2: Working in the operating theaters. I found that to be
Speaker 2: very prevalent in the theaters because it was such a
Speaker 2: closed off area. There were power struggles over who was
Speaker 2: going to scrub for who, And I mean god, I
Speaker 2: remember back at PA when I first started working there
Speaker 2: and I went to the theaters for the first time. I
Speaker 2: remember nurses hiding instruments from other nurses and they would
Speaker 2: get there early so that they'd have those instrumentations for
Speaker 2: their surgeon. It's hard to comprehend that happened, but it did,
Speaker 2: and they were doing it purely because they wanted, I suppose,
Speaker 2: be the best nurse they could be for that particular
Speaker 2: doctor and it saved instrumentation being thrown at them. Some
Speaker 2: of those theater nurses. When I first started, I was
Speaker 2: terrified of them, and I still loved it, and it
Speaker 2: wasn't for everybody. And I do think you had to
Speaker 2: be a certain type of to work in the theater's
Speaker 2: long term.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I've had the opportunities to present a variety of
Speaker 1: people and around different things. One thing that I really
Speaker 1: consider is that I think a lot of this power
Speaker 1: struggle comes from people holding onto their own knowledge. They
Speaker 1: think that their knowledge is their power. So therefore I
Speaker 1: know everything and if I don't tell you, well, then
Speaker 1: I'm going to be the top dog. I'm going to
Speaker 1: be the top nurse because I haven't given you all
Speaker 1: my knowledge. When you spell knowledge in the middle of there,
Speaker 1: there's three little letters altogether. It's owl and that's L
Speaker 1: and l's a very, very wise creature. So as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, within knowledge, there is wisdom that needs
Speaker 1: to be provided to people. And who am I to
Speaker 1: hang on to my knowledge? Because I want to make
Speaker 1: every nurse to be the best nurse they possibly can,
Speaker 1: to be fully empathetic and understanding for the simple fact
Speaker 1: that I might be their patient one day, My family
Speaker 1: will be their patient one day, and I want them
Speaker 1: to be the best nurse that they can be so
Speaker 1: they can actually look after me. Entirely selfish, Rebecca. But
Speaker 1: if I don't give over my knowledge, what am I
Speaker 1: going to do with it? I'm just going to sit
Speaker 1: in a rocking chair a white postages. Why hang on
Speaker 1: to the knowledge? Why not share it and give it
Speaker 1: to other people? Because once I've been provided with that,
Speaker 1: they can't unlearn that. It's a bit like paying forward.
Speaker 1: If I give that knowledge to someone, I want them
Speaker 1: and I tell them I want you to give your
Speaker 1: knowledge to others as well too. You're here to be
Speaker 1: the best nurse you can and to make other nurses
Speaker 1: the best nurses they can because.
Speaker 2: It's interesting within the aesthetic space. I've always shared my information.
Speaker 2: I've gone out and trained for galderma, happy to teach
Speaker 2: because I think if you learn good processes and you
Speaker 2: know the right way of doing things, you're going to
Speaker 2: be a better cosmetic injector or nurse. And I've had
Speaker 2: so many people that come up and go, I can't
Speaker 2: believe you're sharing your intellectual property. Why would you do that?
Speaker 2: You know then they'll come in and undercut and I
Speaker 2: think it makes the whole industry profession so much better
Speaker 2: if the nurses that are rear nurses share the knowledge
Speaker 2: that they've got. I know, we say nursing is a profession,
Speaker 2: but I think we really need to start really looking
Speaker 2: at it as a standalone profession. I've done a fair
Speaker 2: bit of conferences in the States and how they perceive nurses,
Speaker 2: nurse practitioners, physicians, assistants. It's really respectful and I know
Speaker 2: they've worked very, very hard to get into that position,
Speaker 2: but they're really smashing it over there in the value
Speaker 2: that they see nurses bring to the health system. And look,
Speaker 2: it's an awful health system, but they really value what
Speaker 2: nurses say. And the last conference I went to that
Speaker 2: was run by a plastic surgeon. The majority of people
Speaker 2: that were there and that spoke participated with nurse practitioners, physicians, assistants, nurses,
Speaker 2: and there were a few doctors thrown in the mix.
Speaker 2: And here was the plastic surgeon deferring to a nurse
Speaker 2: practitioner about anatomy facial anatomy. I mean, it was mind
Speaker 2: blowing for me sitting there to see that it made
Speaker 2: me really proud to be a nurse and it gave
Speaker 2: me hope that moving forward in Australia, that we can
Speaker 2: look after our own and really nurture an amazing profession.
Speaker 2: But I think we've got a little way to go
Speaker 2: at the moment.
Speaker 1: I'd agree with that the growth of the nurse practitioners
Speaker 1: and the senior nurses doing those types of roles and
Speaker 1: other individualized roles within the profession is certainly growing. We
Speaker 1: are still basically under the English way of doing things
Speaker 1: so greatly or wrongly, but certainly we need to step
Speaker 1: away from that. That the doctor isn't God. The doctor
Speaker 1: is part of a healthcare team. We see allied health
Speaker 1: people now undertaking advanced practice scenarios as well too, with
Speaker 1: our physios and occupational therapists. Speech pathologists have been able
Speaker 1: to actually prescribe some bits and pieces as well too,
Speaker 1: so that whole allied health process has changed. We need
Speaker 1: to look at our patients holistically and our care delivery holistically.
Speaker 1: It's something that's always been spoken about, though we've never
Speaker 1: truly done that. We tend to defer back to a
Speaker 1: hospital based system, a hospital slash GP type system, and
Speaker 1: that isn't working for us at all, because the hospitals
Speaker 1: will get to a point and they are back at
Speaker 1: that again there's just not enough beds. The best place
Speaker 1: for treatments in your home in the hospital. Acute care
Speaker 1: absolutely not an issue. I need to be on a respirator.
Speaker 1: I need to have something very majorly, some major interveections
Speaker 1: undertaken bit theater, b at ICU, be at a cardiac
Speaker 1: intervention or whatever it may be. But the place I'm
Speaker 1: going to recover is in my own home. Being in
Speaker 1: a hospital, it's fully supported in and around, having all
Speaker 1: the doctors and nurses there. You've got to go home
Speaker 1: at some stage and that's when you begin to get better.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, The health system in Australia, in my
Speaker 1: opinion needs a major at shakeup, both publicly and privately
Speaker 1: as well too. I think with the NDIS they begin
Speaker 1: to see some of that, even though that system has
Speaker 1: its major quirks in there as well too. But to
Speaker 1: have all that out at health to keep those clients
Speaker 1: in their homes to be able to maintain a lifestyle
Speaker 1: that they want to be able to do. So that's
Speaker 1: where we need to get.
Speaker 2: To community based care. Nurses, physios. I mean it goes
Speaker 2: on and on, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I do believe that the predictions are that in the
Speaker 1: next number of years not too far away, and we're
Speaker 1: going to be short one hundred thousand plus cares in
Speaker 1: our society.
Speaker 2: Ndis those work, isn't it? They don't come under a
Speaker 2: governing body.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, no, they don't. So that's part and parcel of
Speaker 1: left hand righting, you know, horse and cart sort of scenario.
Speaker 1: What do we need to do to be able to
Speaker 1: support those people? They're dealing with all of our societies
Speaker 1: most vulnerable people. We need to make sure that we
Speaker 1: can look after them appropriately, I think of them what's
Speaker 1: actually needed.
Speaker 2: It's quite concerning that that's not a governed area, I think,
Speaker 2: because I think it allows vulnerable people to be vulnerable
Speaker 2: KAV Within the hospital setting where you work, if someone
Speaker 2: approaches you, are there counseling services or they have to
Speaker 2: go outside and you recommend things to them. What is
Speaker 2: the scenario of someone says to you, look, I'm really
Speaker 2: struggling at work. Do you send them to their GP?
Speaker 1: What do you do when that occurs? In both public
Speaker 1: and private there are outsourced groups of people who can
Speaker 1: come and support people, it depends on what the issue is,
Speaker 1: but also for them to seek their own ways forward
Speaker 1: as well too. I don't know about you, but I've
Speaker 1: spoken to a variety of psychologists over the years for
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons, and finding that right person who's
Speaker 1: going to be the best one for me is always
Speaker 1: a difficult journey to be able to work through. It's
Speaker 1: very difficult to find that person who you connect with
Speaker 1: but who also gives you the truth in a way
Speaker 1: that you're ready to hear it and that you're able
Speaker 1: to hear it and be able to do something with it.
Speaker 1: But ask them what is it that you actually need
Speaker 1: and they'll generally say I don't know what I need,
Speaker 1: And then we'll have a conversation. Tell us what the
Speaker 1: situation is, but break down that big elephant that they're
Speaker 1: trying to jump over. Best way to eat an elephant
Speaker 1: is one tea spoon at a time. Break it down
Speaker 1: to something small. What can we deal with here and now?
Speaker 1: What's the major concern? Is it your safety? How can
Speaker 1: we help for you for you to have your safety
Speaker 1: going forward from today? Do you have a safe place
Speaker 1: to be? Do you have finances available? How are your family?
Speaker 1: Are the dogs okay, are the cats okay? Those types
Speaker 1: of things. So take it down in small chunks. The
Speaker 1: small chunks makes it so much more easy for everyone
Speaker 1: to be able to say, I can actually achieve that
Speaker 1: there's a small win there. I've been able to achieve that.
Speaker 1: I've done that. Okay, now I'm ready for the next thing.
Speaker 1: But have that overall plan. It's all a jigsaw. Have
Speaker 1: an overall plan, have that big picture, but use it
Speaker 1: one pieces of time to fill it in. And that
Speaker 1: bit of that jigsaw may not quite fit in there,
Speaker 1: but it may certainly fit in the next pot you
Speaker 1: go and try it into.
Speaker 2: I saw a counselor that just didn't work at all
Speaker 2: for me. In fact, I got sicker after seeing her.
Speaker 2: And then I actually went and saw a behavioral scientist
Speaker 2: and that just perfect because there was the science side
Speaker 2: of things and then there was I suppose behaviors, and
Speaker 2: she just nailed it. I've been seeing her now for
Speaker 2: the last twelve months, and I didn't even know behavior
Speaker 2: science did that sort of stuff. So good. There are
Speaker 2: other avenues other than counselors and psychologists. There are behavioral scientists,
Speaker 2: and I actually have friends of mine that have seen
Speaker 2: them for grief management and things like that, to just
Speaker 2: to try and change those thought patterns and that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. So there are so many different avenues you
Speaker 2: can take to seek help. It's just knowing how to do.
Speaker 1: It, absolutely Becca, absolutely well. And I speak for myself.
Speaker 1: We've been here in that dark hole as well too.
Speaker 1: But I think for me, at the end of days,
Speaker 1: at the start of day, the best step forward is
Speaker 1: to put your feet over the edge of the bed
Speaker 1: and say, right this is today, This is not yesterday,
Speaker 1: this is not tomorrow. This is today, and I'm grateful
Speaker 1: to be here, right here, right now, and I will
Speaker 1: take things as they come. I will do what I
Speaker 1: can do within my own ability to be able to
Speaker 1: do so, and not step outside of that for a
Speaker 1: while until I feel more confident and go and do
Speaker 1: something that you can actually can do and do well.
Speaker 1: In most days, it could be just geeding up and
Speaker 1: having a shower and doing your hair, and it might
Speaker 1: not be any more than that, but then you succeeded
Speaker 1: in that, So what can I do a little bit
Speaker 1: more tomorrow? And those types of things. Most of us
Speaker 1: have such high expectations of what we're supposed to achieve
Speaker 1: what we should be doing. Love that word shouldn't I
Speaker 1: should be doing this, I should have done that. To
Speaker 1: a point. It Stimey's people's creativity and the ability to
Speaker 1: actually get out.
Speaker 2: And I read the book Atomic Habits, which was absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2: It's all about incremental changes, you know, just one little change.
Speaker 2: So for me, it was going to Plartis. I would
Speaker 2: get up and go to Plarties. But my reward was
Speaker 2: because I did a great coffee, getting a coffee from
Speaker 2: the place on the way back, and because I'm such
Speaker 2: a coffee fiend. That totally motivated me. But I couldn't
Speaker 2: think of doing anything else, you know, I wanted to exercise,
Speaker 2: So that was my one thing every day was get up,
Speaker 2: put my gym clothes on, go to Plartis and get
Speaker 2: that coffee. It's not the big changes, it's the tiny
Speaker 2: little changes that you consistently do. I know when I
Speaker 2: was very sick with depression, it was just getting out
Speaker 2: of bed, getting outside in the sun, playing with the
Speaker 2: dog and that actually, Lola was a big thing. It
Speaker 2: was that I have to take it down to the
Speaker 2: park to play. That was hard to do. That sort
Speaker 2: of stuff. You're right, you know, it's the little steps
Speaker 2: that you take that help you with the bigger.
Speaker 1: Ones, absolutely, and also finding your happy space within that
Speaker 1: as well too. So what's that happy space in there?
Speaker 1: And that is often a reward to find that. If
Speaker 1: it's a cup of coffee after you've done something, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1: But is there something else that you don't have to
Speaker 1: actually do?
Speaker 2: What for?
Speaker 1: But you know what actually makes a person happy to
Speaker 1: be able to do? So find that, do that and
Speaker 1: that will begin to change your life. And yes it is.
Speaker 1: It's little, tiny, winny steps at a time. It's not
Speaker 1: a huge massive change. I see it with an awful
Speaker 1: lot of places. We've done a lot of clinical redesign
Speaker 1: around a range of processes, work processes, so on and
Speaker 1: so forth. And whilst the outcome can be monumental, the
Speaker 1: actual steps to get to there are super tiny. Do
Speaker 1: people know what their job is? Do people know how
Speaker 1: to do that job? Do they have the knowledge and
Speaker 1: skills to be able to do that job? And how
Speaker 1: can we help for them to do that better? And
Speaker 1: do they know what the outcome that we are expecting is?
Speaker 1: And once you get down and cut down to all
Speaker 1: those sort of things. All of a sudden you can
Speaker 1: find out, Oh my gracious me, these people really are
Speaker 1: unaware about what happens next. So by them doing this
Speaker 1: activity here effect somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Now, I know you're super busy and clearly you're going
Speaker 2: to have to come back on. I just want to
Speaker 2: say thank you so much for supporting me in this
Speaker 2: and the fact that you know that we need to
Speaker 2: be a little bit tender with each other, and we
Speaker 2: need to be tender to nurses and we need to
Speaker 2: look after ourselves a bit better and the profession. And
Speaker 2: I cannot thank you enough for coming on today.
Speaker 1: Look, I really do appreciate the opportunity to come and
Speaker 1: have a chat about this. Is this one of my
Speaker 1: true passions and one of the things I wanted to
Speaker 1: leave everyone with, apart from what I've said or bad,
Speaker 1: is that, what do you want your legacy to be
Speaker 1: when you're no longer that nurse at the bedside or
Speaker 1: the nurse somewhere else? What do you want your legacy
Speaker 1: to be? I want mine to have people who are
Speaker 1: able to look after me and my family and my
Speaker 1: colleagues and everybody else. To be the best person, the
Speaker 1: best nurse they possibly can be, and that's going to
Speaker 1: be what I'm going to do till the day I
Speaker 1: think that.
Speaker 2: You know, it'd be great if all of us had
Speaker 2: that same aspiration. It's a pretty cool profession.