WEBVTT - 32 years at the sharp end: John Taylor Pt.1 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:06.840 Detective see aside of life. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.040 The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.680 four years as a cop. For twenty five of those 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.200 years I was catching killers. That's what I did for 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.600 a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.759 just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.560 the world in which I operated. The guests I talk 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.159 to each week have amazing stories from all sides of 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.840 the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.320 the people I talk to. Some of the content and 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.400 language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.800 into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:48.000 as I take you into this world. When things gather shit, 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.880 a special operations group is who you turn to, from 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.960 bomb disposal to taking down the most dangerous violent criminals. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.800 These are the cops who are sent in when everything 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.480 is on the line, there is no room for failure. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.200 Retired Victorian cop John Taylor spent thirty four years working 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.760 in the SAG and the Bomb Response Unit. He's a 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.640 genuine tough guy. I had a great chat with John 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.080 about his time in the SAG and you get an 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.679 understanding of what it takes to stop violence before it explodes. 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.800 John Taylor, Welcome to I Catch Killers. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.600 Thanks Garry, thanks for asking me. It's fantastic. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.160 Well, I'm going to say up front, full credit to 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.800 you with the area in which you worked in tactical 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.560 policing and the bomb response unit. That's a sharp end 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.280 of policing and you did it for a hell of 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.960 a long time. So yeah, full credit. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.280 To be honest. It's though, really enjoyed it, Gary. You know, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.960 I've mentioned other people in my career was nearly thirty 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.640 four years, and it's been about thirty two of those 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.880 in a special operations group or under it, and it 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.200 feels like only five years. So obviously I enjoyed my work. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.440 Well, it's good to see someone come out after what 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.840 thirty four years in the cops and come out with 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.760 a smile on your face and still intact physically, mentally 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.360 and emotionally. 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:09.000 Wellfem I argue about that one, but yeah, yeah. Originally 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.000 I did ten years as a graphic artist screenprint. When 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.800 I left school, you know, I tried to get into 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.280 the police force and finally got there, and my dream 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.160 came true and then yeah, moved on to a specialist area. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.640 And I have no regrets, you know, seeing things like 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.920 you yourself, you know that other people fortunately don't see. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.800 But that's part of the job. That's what I accepted 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.120 and did my duty. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.960 Well, I reading your book through Fear and Fire. In 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.040 one of the pictures, you're saying, I can't believe I 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.320 get paid for doing this, and that that was the 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.040 attitude I had in the cops. There was some adventures 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.680 and some things that I got to experience and what 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.480 they also pay you like, I'd pay to do some 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:50.800 of the experiences myself. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:52.799 So it was a common thing we used to talk about. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.760 You know, get hanging under a helicopter had been extracted 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.320 from a drug crop, and you're thinking, you know, there's 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.440 a a couple of dolls with the all cover, I'm 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.920 under a rape, I'm looking the forest below me, and 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.120 that it was like a joy ride, you know, like 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.480 we'd say that the guys whoere everyone's saying, I can't 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.600 believe we're getting paid to do this stuff. You know, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.640 it's you know, there's dangerous. Maybe that goes with it, 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.320 but you know you can't get the smile of your base. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.720 I'm sure you know you've been in some circumstances like that. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:21.400 It's not just unbelievable. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.520 Most definitely, I get what you're talking about. The other thing, 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.360 in the policing world, the perception of tactical police is like, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.760 you guys are robots, and yeah, you get called out 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.560 when shit hits a fan and to siegers, arresting high 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.000 risk offenders, all sorts of things when the other police 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.840 haven't got the skills training to respond to the situations. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.840 I think we should dispel that because in my dealings 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.760 with tactical police and my involvement in the tactical police, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:53.920 it's very much there's a human side of it, isn't 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:55.720 it that people don't understand it. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.440 Look, we're normal police officers, and we've just been trained 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.240 a bit more in specialist areas, and we have better equipment, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.600 and as you mentioned, we as a tactical police officers 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.760 you can't afford to fail. Now we are the last resort. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.400 We can't say this is too hard and move aside 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.240 and let someone else go in. So, you know, and 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.520 we have the human side, As you said, we're just 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.640 normal people. We see a lot of things that We're 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.640 glad other people don't see. We dealt with a lot 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.640 of people that you wouldn't believe their beliefs and what 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.080 they've done. You know, it's surprising and quite disturbing in 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.000 some ways, and we have feelings like everybody else. When 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:36.760 it comes down to it. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.120 You touch on the point there and I very much 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.800 felt it in when I do this a comment to 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.560 the tou When you're the team, you're the team there. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.680 Whatever happens, there's no one else to respond except you, guys. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.400 Yeah, and that's basically and as you know that, we'll 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.479 have a plan A, that we already have a Plan 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.040 B and a Plan C, and then we'll limnify as 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.159 a Plan D if it's required. The there's always forward motion, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.280 there's no backward steps when it comes down to it. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:08.839 Well, I spent most of my career in criminal investigations detectives, 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.920 but I also spent a lot in the tactical side 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.120 of policing as well. There's a friendly rivalry and a 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:20.080 bit of a bit of perception that the tactical guys 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.039 that are knuckle draggers. I think that was a term 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.880 we use in New South Wales and the tactical blokes 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.800 that you're the soft pen pushes in regards to the detectives. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.159 But I just want to say this and tell me 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.560 if you think I'm on the right track. I spent 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.920 many a time with the tactical police, and I think 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:42.120 the training, the professionalism is not fully appreciated. The training 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.880 is intense because if you make a mistake, the consequences 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:45.640 are devastating. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.400 But some of the. 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.800 Briefings and debriefings I've been to with tactical police head 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.600 and shoulders above, briefings with detectives, would you agree on 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.680 that that without the shipbagging detectives because I'll have to 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.560 defend them. But there is a there is a professionalism 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.159 that needs to come with tactical policing. 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.760 Definitely, and like we had that rivalry with the textis 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.720 but it's done with great respect, you know, and any operation, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.600 some of these operations can go for four or five months, 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:19.200 and those detectives are doing the hard hours, everything all 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.440 lining it up for us to do that tactical arrest 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.880 at the end. They're the ones that actually do the 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:30.480 hard work that goes with it. So we find like tactically, 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.520 you know, with briefings and things like that. They've got 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:35.720 to be done correct. It's not all walking into room 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.880 and having a two minute briefing. We'll do reconnaissance on 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:43.120 the information we get from the investigators, and those reconnaissance 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.159 would be looking at the offender's address or if they're 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.880 going to do an armed robbery, looking the places are 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.599 going to rob So lots of hours go into it, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.480 and it's got to be very succinct and very well planned, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.120 and then it has to go before our senior sergeant, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.680 and then it has to go before our inspector, and then 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.440 we'll do a massive briefing that might go for an hour. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.320 You're told what you'll be doing, but you've got to 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.680 be able to improvise if it doesn't go that way, 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.040 and it has to be proved by our bosses who 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.360 are happy with the plan that we put forward, and 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.880 then we go ahead and do the job. And yeah, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.400 we like to term knuckle draggers and stuff like that, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.000 but we know it's done with a sense of humor 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.840 from the investigators and like we've drunk a lot of 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.480 beers with them and we've had a lot of fun 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.600 and maybe occasionally you can't do with these as we 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.720 kid that the few and you had a bit of 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.880 fun with them, and that they're done the same with us. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.280 So you know, boys will be boys, girls will be girls. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.119 You know, they're just going to had that sense of humor, 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.040 but they've got to have the specialism. When it comes 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.239 down to a job, all fun stops and the planning 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:44.800 goes ahead. 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.880 And I also think, and this is a misconception, and 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.960 I think I've been fortunate because I've seen both sides 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.920 of it too. Some of the most intellectual stimulating conversations 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:56.880 I've had. But its sitting in the back of the 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.160 dove or the van, waiting to arrest the fen that 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.400 might turn up in the next state hours and the 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.800 conversations you have, Like people think it's one dimensional tactical policing, 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.160 but there's a lot of people that are deep thinkers 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.480 and the philosophers and all sorts of things I've found 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.520 in tactical police. 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.160 I think the best thing I enjoyed about my job 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.760 is a team environment, very team orientated and like like 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.920 a family. Basically, they're watching your back. You know, you 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.200 can do like a forced entry into our house where 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.960 you might be number one going through that door, knowing 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.000 that there's an armed defender, I don't have to turn 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.520 around and know I know they're behind me. I don't 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.199 have to look make sure they're there. And that's the 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.000 way it is. So you had the conversations in a 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.679 car or a location before job's happening, and then basically 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.079 when it starts happening, it's all very serious from there onwards. 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.800 But I suppose a bit of our therapy. Yeah, some 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.960 people have problems occasionally, good that they trust the people 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:55.920 that discuss it with. Yeah. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.640 Yeah, Well, I think in what we're playing around with, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.360 the thing that always struck me as a professionalism of 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.320 tactical police in that if they do stuff up, the 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.040 consequences are devastating, like a high risk, and they're going 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.480 to be scrutinized no matter what happens. And it's getting worse. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.840 When I say getting worse, there's more scrutiny now in 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.679 that when you used to first I would imagine when 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.080 you started, when you used to first do operations, it 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.600 wasn't all filmed and recorded. Now you basically everything's been recorded. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.840 If a mistake was made, you could be pulled aside 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.480 and say, hey, John, slow it down a little bit 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.360 or whatever now it gets critiqued in virtual real time. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.800 Debriefs were very thorough even in the early days and 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.719 probably showing our age. I was amazed when I got 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:43.520 to the unit. I've got a page that used to 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.280 go bit the red light. And then I had to 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.520 find a phone somewhere. I might be driving in the 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.640 car and pulling too a petrol station. I need to 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.160 use your phone. And from the pager, we moved to 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.280 a pager. They had a phone number that could bring 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.920 and then pages. They really improved, and they had messages, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.520 you address, you had the guys. So with technology has improved, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.199 with body cams on police now and CCTV and everybody's 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.920 got a mobile. And not that we ever did the 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.640 wrong thing, but it's another thing you have to think 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.760 about these days. Yeah, certainly the generations have changed. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:18.679 Well, I'll put my hand up. 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.520 I do remember the pager and the first time it 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.040 went off, I had it on my belt and I 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.480 thought that I had something wrong with me. I didn't 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.720 couldn't work out what it was, and then I remembered 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.760 I had the pager. What steered you towards going into 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.800 the tactical side of the policing. What was it you 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.680 joined the cops. Did you always have the dream of 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.160 going into tactical policing when you join the cops or. 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.400 I think this will make some of my mates like unbelievable. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:46.160 But when you leave the academy you're probachary councilors, you know, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.200 and you get put got it, put in communications and 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.920 seeing you can apply for a vacancy somewhere and be 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.439 so junior in those days, basically the senior number got 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.400 the position. So after I think, I like the six 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.800 different police stations to get out on the road, and 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.040 then they set me up. I think the sergeants at 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.360 the communications how you should do in the SOG. They 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.880 like running in bitness and probably as a kid had 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.600 small man syndrome. I'm not particularly tall or big. And 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.280 once I applied, then I started to realize what it 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.120 was all about. And I spoke just stubbornness, right, There's 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.440 no way I was going to quit, you know, And yeah, 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.640 that's basically knew nothing about SOG originally. When I put 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.840 the application in all and used it, I thought it 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.800 was something like search and rescue and yeah, but I 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.880 certainly found my part in the police force, in the 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.200 organization and I'm glad I made that decision. I suffered, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.440 but I'm glad I made that decision. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.120 And check the fine print when you applied. They don't 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.640 just hand out the pair of black overalls and a 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.360 big gun and tell you to go and the rest 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:53.520 of these offenders and. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:54.920 Resolve this siege. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.960 Tell us about the training and the whole process, because 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.079 it was eighty seven, eighty eight, seat where you. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.320 Eighty nine I got into the group. Eighty seven I 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.640 joined the police force. Eighty nine. I got into the 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.120 group the end of eighty nine, And like I was 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.920 at communications, and that comes out in the gazette. You know, 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.520 you want to be an applicant in the SOG and 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.559 I put my form in. Then you do a medical 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.400 and all that kind of things that goes through it, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.960 and then you do a basic PT assessment at the 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.400 academy and I think we had over seventy seven applicants 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.080 that year, and then you lose a few along the way, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.199 and then you have a major half day selection process 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.360 and that starts off. They give you a lot of verbalization, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.400 but then you do a three point two k run 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.480 with a bulletproof best on carrying the shopguard. You got 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.240 a thirty eight revolver on your hip, and you've got 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.280 a helmet on and you're in GP boots. You're running 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.960 around an oval and from there you return the weapons 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.160 and give them back their ballistic best and all that, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.600 and you're in a boilersuit. You had to wear a 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.880 boiler suit when I was overalls. And then you'd run 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.720 down to the eraet swim across the era and then 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.679 up the other side. It was about fifty meter sort 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.240 of climb, not quite vertical, but a big rope was there. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.199 Once you got up the top, you do a kilometer 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.560 run up there around a loop and then back down 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.760 the rope back across the era, and then you do 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.720 one hundred meter a man carry on one of the 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.200 sog guys and they're all big boys, and you know, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.160 I would have been probably seventy kilos ringing wet as 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.160 it was. And then you do that twice more. And 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.520 it was a colder state for Melbourne that year, and 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:33.360 so a couple were taken off to hyperthermia to the 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.679 hospital and I can hear the SG just call him 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.000 a week. We had better idea now about yeah, but 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.400 you can imagine what it was like in those early days, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:42.280 and then. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.560 We do a whole push uppes, all those exercises that 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.240 are bad your body the way they were done, bunny 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.520 pops and things like that, and by the end of 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.240 it you're down to about thirty people. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.080 And then a couple of weeks later you go before 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.160 a board and we started our course with twenty two 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.200 people and it was a really small classroom. You'd the 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.000 shoulder and the shoulder in the classroom, and on that 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:10.920 way you'd learned about weapons techniques, climbing, driving, reconnaissance, you know, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.840 mobile Lindo steps and the list just went on gas 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.640 and by the end of it, twelve weeks later, it's 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.920 all of us in the classroom and just your attrition 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.000 rate is unbelievable, and we had improved, Like I think 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:26.920 that I was part of that. I became a fitness 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.800 instructor where we started to manage people's injuries. But in 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.840 those days, I think it's competition and see how many 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.880 people that can get rid of on a course. 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.960 It's bad, bad, but I look back and it just 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.360 puts a smile on the face. It brings back so 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.640 many memories. I think I did the course for it 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.040 was a six week course for two RG Tactical Response 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.880 Group in it would have been eighty seven eighty eight. 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.360 And I look at the policing now and before I 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.680 retired in the police, and I've got some people, you know, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.800 complaining about workplace issues or HR issues, and I just 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.880 think what went down there? And you know, you talk 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.440 about doing all the wrong exercises like the log run 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.600 down virtually down cliff faces. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:14.600 It was just chaotic. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.520 And I forget how many people are on our course, 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.600 but we I know I ended up in hospital at 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.880 one stage, and I think probably three quarters of the 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:23.680 course ended up in. 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:25.080 Hospital at some stage. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.120 But there was no consideration that they were doing anything wrong. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.400 It was just partner That's what it was in those days. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.400 And like even we had I suppose on the twelve 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.000 week course, worst day physically in a way was the 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:37.600 gas day. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.400 Oh yeah, been. 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.080 Putting in a little room and a gas canis so 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.680 that should clear a house is basically clearing a toilet 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.000 that we're in. You know, you're going there with your 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.880 mask and that's a take off your mask and you're 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.000 holding your breath and they want to what's your name? 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.240 Trying and say your name without breathing knowing very soon 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.160 that you're going to have to take that gulp of 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.800 their like cus gas and sea gas. We had to experience. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.840 It's like a cocktail, experimenting the whole lot. Yeah, you 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.240 had not running out your nose. It was really hit 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.080 in the ground. I think it was disgusting, but better 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.280 done these days. It was a learning period and as 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.600 I said, things have improved. A lot of guys been 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.200 to university, have to plombers in fitness and stuff like that. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.600 So in the newer courses used to managing Ridge, it 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.080 wasn't about getting rid of someone unless we thought they 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.280 were unsuitable. But you know, on the the eleventh week 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.680 of my course, we did a reconnaissance. You know, they 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.040 give you an address and outside of Melbourne or something 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.120 that you've been doing the course all day, extremely tired, 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:40.680 you have to go in through reconnaissance. You know, what's 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.560 the back door look like, what's the front door look like? 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.280 Where would you form up your people? How many people 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.680 would you need? Which ways to the door open? And 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.640 I twisted my ankle really badly in a divot. Then 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.280 the next on the twelfth week, we had a twenty 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.160 k run, so again with the boiler suit. The shotgun 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.440 doesn't have a sling. You got to carry it and 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.040 had a thirty eight pistol on the hip and one 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.000 lead of water bottle and that we had to run 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.280 as only four of us left anyway, And as about 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.240 a year later when I did something, tome angler had 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:11.800 it xtraight and I had a broken bone in it, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.920 so it actually had broken the angle on the eleventh week. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.119 But I knew it was bad. But if I showed that, 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.879 it was a sign of weakness and I would have 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.919 been kicked off. Of course, we lost someone in the 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:22.919 eleventh week, you know. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:27.439 So yeah, but you look back and I again, I 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.199 look back with a smile on my face that you 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.199 get through something like that, and you look back with 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.800 fond memories because you appreciate how tough it was. The 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.439 gas we went in the did the gas run, and 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.560 that into that room with the gas lead off. They 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.080 took us from memory. We were doing leopard crawls over 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:48.040 gravel roads and all that beforehand, working up a sweat. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.240 We had no idea that the gas would attack or 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.359 the moisture on your body. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.560 So all places. 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.639 Worked us up into a lather. 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.840 And there was a dirty puddle of water, and we thought, oh, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.359 good idea, we will leopard crawl through that and cool 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:01.840 down a bit. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.360 Then they take you into the gas room. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.520 They've warned you that some people might panic, some people 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.399 might piss themselves, some people who knows what. 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:10.440 Reaction you goin to get. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.919 So you're whipped up into a frenzy and then you 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.280 go in there and they rip your mask off and 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.680 exactly what you were saying, what's your name? 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.200 Where do you work? And you just you come out 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.119 and just yeah, I say it. 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.320 Now. I'm a little bit older and wiser, but if 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.600 someone said, you know, even if I wasn't being paid 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.600 to do, They're like, oh, yeah, give it the game. See 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.359 what it's like. And that just hits you. When people 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.880 ask me what it feels like, I say, imagine if 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.520 someone poured pepper into your eyes and down your throat. 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.080 That's sort of you can. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.760 Look back and laugh. Then they video it the old 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.520 VHS recorded like eighty nine, as you imagine, and yeah, 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.440 I do have a copy of it. And the looks 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.520 on some of the faces that boys are going at 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.560 the rims like what's this going to do to us? 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.480 And like you're all over the same bucket. It's not 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.720 coming out. Yeah, is not too good, but that's what 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.800 it was. You know, no regrets, no regrets. 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.480 What characteristics you think get people through and what are 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.639 the type of things you're looking for in people to 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.240 get them to be a good operator in the tactical 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.480 sphere of policing, Yeah. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.720 Very much. You know, ran a lot of courses involved 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.240 in a lot of courses. Certainly the selection phase I 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.040 sort of a lot of time for me. I'm looking 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.080 for the gray man, you know, that does everything that's required, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.240