1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:09,840 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. The ASX 200 2 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,289 Sean Aylmer: surged past the 8, 000 point mark last week with 3 00:00:13,289 --> 00:00:16,259 Sean Aylmer: some economists optimistic about further gains with the prospect of 4 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:20,759 Sean Aylmer: lower interest rates globally. However, there's plenty of uncertainty out 5 00:00:20,759 --> 00:00:24,150 Sean Aylmer: there in investment markets. Shane Oliver is Head of Investment 6 00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:27,599 Sean Aylmer: Strategy and Economics and Chief Economist at AMP. Shane, welcome 7 00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:28,470 Sean Aylmer: back to Fear & Greed. 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:29,939 Shane Oliver : Thanks for having me, Sean. 9 00:00:30,809 --> 00:00:34,049 Sean Aylmer: You expect, well, your latest forecast is that the ASX 200 10 00:00:34,049 --> 00:00:38,700 Sean Aylmer: could get towards 8, 100, 7, 900 to 8,100, but you 11 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:42,120 Sean Aylmer: talk about something called roundophobia. I like that. What is roundophobia? 12 00:00:42,121 --> 00:00:46,589 Shane Oliver : Well, roundophobia is I guess an obsession with big round 13 00:00:46,590 --> 00:00:50,729 Shane Oliver : numbers. You don't often hear that in relation to share 14 00:00:50,729 --> 00:00:54,660 Shane Oliver : markets, but there is an obsession with big round index 15 00:00:54,660 --> 00:00:58,590 Shane Oliver : numbers like 7, 000, 8,000. And each time we go through 16 00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:01,860 Shane Oliver : that because it's a significant marker, it creates a lot 17 00:01:01,860 --> 00:01:04,229 Shane Oliver : of interest and that can have the effect of attracting 18 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:07,530 Shane Oliver : more money into the market. It doesn't always. Time will 19 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:11,700 Shane Oliver : tell this time around, but the bottom line is of course that the 8, 20 00:01:12,209 --> 00:01:14,819 Shane Oliver : 000 level is just an arbitrary number. It all depends 21 00:01:14,819 --> 00:01:18,929 Shane Oliver : on when the ASX 200 first started and the index level 22 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:21,029 Shane Oliver : they set it at when they started. So there's no 23 00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:24,719 Shane Oliver : particular significance to it apart from the psychological one that 24 00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:27,059 Shane Oliver : could attract interest in the market because we've gone through 25 00:01:27,059 --> 00:01:28,440 Shane Oliver : that big line in the sand. 26 00:01:29,459 --> 00:01:31,740 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so why has there been so much strength in 27 00:01:31,740 --> 00:01:33,300 Sean Aylmer: the market in the ASX 200? 28 00:01:33,870 --> 00:01:35,940 Shane Oliver : Look, I think there's been a few things. The first 29 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:39,869 Shane Oliver : thing to note is that particularly recently there's been more 30 00:01:39,870 --> 00:01:44,520 Shane Oliver : optimism about global inflation falling and central banks heading towards 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,039 Shane Oliver : rate cuts. There was a bit of doubt around that 32 00:01:47,039 --> 00:01:48,870 Shane Oliver : a few months ago. There was talked the Fed might 33 00:01:48,870 --> 00:01:52,350 Shane Oliver : have to hike rates again. The Reserve Bank of New 34 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:56,250 Shane Oliver : Zealand was talking about possible hikes as well. In Australia, 35 00:01:56,250 --> 00:01:58,620 Shane Oliver : we've been talking about hikes, but over the last couple 36 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:02,280 Shane Oliver : of weeks we've been seeing more weak inflation data globally, 37 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,909 Shane Oliver : including in the US and New Zealand, more central banks 38 00:02:05,910 --> 00:02:09,780 Shane Oliver : heading towards rate cuts and that I think has helped 39 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:12,090 Shane Oliver : drag up global share markets to help drag up our 40 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:16,739 Shane Oliver : market. There's also the possibility that if these other countries 41 00:02:16,740 --> 00:02:19,079 Shane Oliver : are going down the path of lower inflation after a 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,360 Shane Oliver : bit of an upside surprise, then maybe we will see 43 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,389 Shane Oliver : the same thing. So maybe we won't see another rate 44 00:02:24,389 --> 00:02:27,270 Shane Oliver : hike here. Maybe the next move will be a cut, 45 00:02:27,570 --> 00:02:29,820 Shane Oliver : which is what most economists expect. But there's been a 46 00:02:29,820 --> 00:02:32,489 Shane Oliver : bit of doubt around that recently. And finally, there's been 47 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:35,069 Shane Oliver : a bit of a rotation away from US tech stocks 48 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:39,419 Shane Oliver : into what you might call cyclical or value stocks, small 49 00:02:39,419 --> 00:02:42,839 Shane Oliver : caps in particular. Tech stocks have been the safe haven 50 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,500 Shane Oliver : play, the growth play done very well. Investors saying, " Well, 51 00:02:46,530 --> 00:02:48,840 Shane Oliver : okay, if rates are going to come down, that should 52 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,049 Shane Oliver : lead to better growth on a 12- month view and 53 00:02:52,110 --> 00:02:55,500 Shane Oliver : therefore we'll rotate to small caps and companies that will 54 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:58,379 Shane Oliver : benefit from a cyclical upswing eventually," and that may include 55 00:02:58,379 --> 00:03:01,050 Shane Oliver : the Australian share market. So those three things I think 56 00:03:01,050 --> 00:03:03,960 Shane Oliver : have helped push our market up to record highs in 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,560 Shane Oliver : the last week or two. And of course then through the 8, 58 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,859 Shane Oliver : 000 level, although the last few days have been a 59 00:03:10,859 --> 00:03:11,668 Shane Oliver : bit more volatile. 60 00:03:12,449 --> 00:03:15,508 Sean Aylmer: So can it keep going or do you think there is 61 00:03:15,508 --> 00:03:16,619 Sean Aylmer: a correction in the future? 62 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:19,230 Shane Oliver : Look, I think there's very high risk of a correction. 63 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:22,950 Shane Oliver : You might say, well, it's a bit cynical. He, I. 64 00:03:22,950 --> 00:03:26,339 Shane Oliver : E. me, I've only revised up my year- end target 65 00:03:26,340 --> 00:03:29,340 Shane Oliver : to roughly where the ASX was anyway. I think it 66 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:31,710 Shane Oliver : got to a high in the last week of 88, 67 00:03:32,099 --> 00:03:34,919 Shane Oliver : 060 or something like that. So there's not much further 68 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,430 Shane Oliver : to go if I'm saying 8, 100 by year- end. 69 00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:41,040 Shane Oliver : To be honest with you, I wasn't prepared to revise 70 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Shane Oliver : it any further because I think there is a big 71 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,099 Shane Oliver : risk of a correction and even though I'm optimistic on 72 00:03:47,099 --> 00:03:49,679 Shane Oliver : the market generally, I think the gains will be limited 73 00:03:49,679 --> 00:03:52,349 Shane Oliver : from here. If you just think about it, most share 74 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:56,280 Shane Oliver : markets, including our own, are on somewhat stretched PEs. If 75 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,550 Shane Oliver : you look at the margin or the premium they're offering 76 00:03:59,580 --> 00:04:02,429 Shane Oliver : relative to bond yields, it's quite narrow compared to what 77 00:04:02,429 --> 00:04:05,820 Shane Oliver : we've seen over the last 20 years. There's risks still 78 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:09,002 Shane Oliver : out there of recession, so that's a key (inaudible) 79 00:04:08,820 --> 00:04:11,159 Shane Oliver : in the short term, and one big factor is living 80 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,340 Shane Oliver : large here, and that of course is the dystopian reality 81 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:16,710 Shane Oliver : of what's going on in the US. I'd like to 82 00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:19,380 Shane Oliver : call it a dystopian fantasy, but it seems to be a 83 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:23,669 Shane Oliver : reality, and that is their politics, which looks like a 84 00:04:23,670 --> 00:04:27,779 Shane Oliver : complete mess to me. I'm shocked that what is one 85 00:04:27,779 --> 00:04:30,419 Shane Oliver : of the world's greatest countries has come up with these 86 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:33,240 Shane Oliver : two as the potential potential leaders for the next four 87 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,820 Shane Oliver : years. But in any case, that's the way it is. 88 00:04:36,060 --> 00:04:38,488 Shane Oliver : But that is causing some uncertainty around markets, and the 89 00:04:38,490 --> 00:04:42,810 Shane Oliver : particular uncertainty, I think is fear that we'll see another 90 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,609 Shane Oliver : return to trade wars under Trump 2, much like we 91 00:04:47,609 --> 00:04:50,940 Shane Oliver : saw in 2018 under Trump 1. And we know from 92 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:54,060 Shane Oliver : those trade wars back then that we had a bit 93 00:04:54,060 --> 00:04:56,339 Shane Oliver : of a rough year for the share market in 2018, 94 00:04:56,339 --> 00:04:58,380 Shane Oliver : US share market top to bottom had a fall of 95 00:04:58,380 --> 00:05:02,639 Shane Oliver : nearly 20%. Our market came down 15% or so in 96 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:05,549 Shane Oliver : the midst of that year. So we know from the past 97 00:05:05,549 --> 00:05:09,060 Shane Oliver : that trade uncertainty is not good for share markets, even 98 00:05:09,060 --> 00:05:12,300 Shane Oliver : though there are some positives for investors from Trump's policies. 99 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,309 Shane Oliver : So I think all of those things are starting to 100 00:05:14,309 --> 00:05:16,949 Shane Oliver : creep in and could give us a bit of volatility 101 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:20,368 Shane Oliver : over the next few months. I'm also conscious of the 102 00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:23,580 Shane Oliver : old saying, used to be sell in May, go away, 103 00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:26,250 Shane Oliver : come back on St. Ledger's Day, which is a day in September. 104 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Shane Oliver : In recent times, the strength has continued into July. July 105 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,308 Shane Oliver : is normally a strong month, but just as we saw 106 00:05:32,309 --> 00:05:35,130 Shane Oliver : last year, markets peaked out in July. Then we had 107 00:05:35,130 --> 00:05:39,748 Shane Oliver : a correction through August, September, October. August, September particularly are 108 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:43,319 Shane Oliver : known as seasonally poor months for investors. So there is 109 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,089 Shane Oliver : a high risk that we could go through a correction 110 00:05:45,089 --> 00:05:46,410 Shane Oliver : over the next couple of months. 111 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,600 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Shane. We'll be back in a minute. 112 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,378 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Shane Oliver, Head of Investment Strategy and 113 00:05:58,379 --> 00:06:02,430 Sean Aylmer: Chief Economist at AMP. A couple of times as you 114 00:06:02,490 --> 00:06:05,490 Sean Aylmer: referred to the Australian market and rotating into the Australian 115 00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:07,289 Sean Aylmer: market, et cetera, one of the notes you put out 116 00:06:07,290 --> 00:06:09,839 Sean Aylmer: in recent, over the last week or so, you talk 117 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,799 Sean Aylmer: about how Australian stocks have done relative to overseas and 118 00:06:13,799 --> 00:06:17,669 Sean Aylmer: particularly since 2009. Can you just explain that we haven't 119 00:06:17,670 --> 00:06:20,250 Sean Aylmer: done so well? The ASX 200 hasn't done so well? 120 00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:23,339 Shane Oliver : No, we certainly haven't. It is been okay. If you're 121 00:06:23,339 --> 00:06:25,860 Shane Oliver : an Australian investor, I think over that period since 2009, 122 00:06:25,860 --> 00:06:28,559 Shane Oliver : you got a return of about 8% if you include 123 00:06:28,559 --> 00:06:30,960 Shane Oliver : dividends. So that's not too bad. It's just that you 124 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,178 Shane Oliver : would've done a lot better if you were in global 125 00:06:33,178 --> 00:06:37,289 Shane Oliver : shares. We've been underperforming, I think since when we started 126 00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:39,750 Shane Oliver : raising interest rates coming out of the GFC. I think it 127 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:43,020 Shane Oliver : was October, 2009. So there's been a few blips along 128 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:46,230 Shane Oliver : the way, but the broad trend in relative terms has 129 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:49,380 Shane Oliver : been downwards for our market. We've gone up in absolute 130 00:06:49,380 --> 00:06:52,229 Shane Oliver : terms relative to global markets, we've gone down bunch of 131 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:55,470 Shane Oliver : factors there. I think we had a massive, massive, massive out- 132 00:06:55,470 --> 00:06:58,650 Shane Oliver : performance in the 2000s that was on the back of the 133 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:03,029 Shane Oliver : mining boom. We perhaps had two decades worth of returns 134 00:07:03,029 --> 00:07:05,759 Shane Oliver : in one decade. So there's a bit of mean reversion 135 00:07:05,759 --> 00:07:08,880 Shane Oliver : there making up for those excessive gains we saw in 136 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,639 Shane Oliver : the 2000s on the back of the mining boom. The 137 00:07:11,639 --> 00:07:13,769 Shane Oliver : start of that period, we had a very high Aussie 138 00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:16,800 Shane Oliver : dollar. Great for us going on holidays to the US 139 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,660 Shane Oliver : when one Aussie bought $ 1. 10, in 2011, 2012, not so 140 00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:24,870 Shane Oliver : good for Australian companies trying to compete internationally. Then for 141 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:27,689 Shane Oliver : much of that period, we've had higher interest rates than 142 00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:31,920 Shane Oliver : seen globally, and there's been increasing worries about the Chinese 143 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,670 Shane Oliver : economy slowing down and the relationship with China not being 144 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:38,040 Shane Oliver : as good as it used to be. Then more recently, 145 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,160 Shane Oliver : of course, those China worries have still been there and we've 146 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,610 Shane Oliver : also had concerns that, well, the Aussie economy is far 147 00:07:44,610 --> 00:07:47,909 Shane Oliver : more sensitive to higher interest rates than the US economy. 148 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:52,350 Shane Oliver : Maybe we'll get harder hit given high household debt levels 149 00:07:52,350 --> 00:07:55,410 Shane Oliver : and high property prices. So all of those things have 150 00:07:55,410 --> 00:07:57,270 Shane Oliver : weighed on our market. I know there's been a few 151 00:07:57,270 --> 00:08:00,540 Shane Oliver : occasions where it's looked like the downswing was over. Most 152 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:04,949 Shane Oliver : recent occasion was I think 20 ... Start of last year. We were 153 00:08:04,949 --> 00:08:07,950 Shane Oliver : starting to look a little bit better, and also in 154 00:08:07,950 --> 00:08:10,200 Shane Oliver : 2019 I recall we started to look a little bit 155 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,930 Shane Oliver : better. But they've all proven to be (inaudible) and 156 00:08:12,930 --> 00:08:16,860 Shane Oliver : some of those worries are still there, particularly regarding the 157 00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:19,860 Shane Oliver : full impact of interest rate hikes on our market, on 158 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:24,689 Shane Oliver : our economy, and also those worries about China. And so 159 00:08:24,690 --> 00:08:26,610 Shane Oliver : therefore I think it's probably a little bit too early 160 00:08:26,610 --> 00:08:29,670 Shane Oliver : to say with confidence that that (inaudible) under- performance 161 00:08:29,670 --> 00:08:30,720 Shane Oliver : by our market is over. 162 00:08:32,130 --> 00:08:34,619 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just before I go, you mentioned the Aussie dollar there. Why is the 163 00:08:34,620 --> 00:08:38,610 Sean Aylmer: Aussie dollar, at least in historical terms, it's actually fairly 164 00:08:38,610 --> 00:08:40,679 Sean Aylmer: weak and I'm not even sure whether it ... I mean 165 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,439 Sean Aylmer: it's a commodity currency, I get that. But commodity prices 166 00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:47,010 Sean Aylmer: in historical terms still remain fairly high, but the Aussie 167 00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:49,110 Sean Aylmer: dollar doesn't. What's the deal there? 168 00:08:49,650 --> 00:08:51,689 Shane Oliver : I must admit that is a little bit surprising. We 169 00:08:51,690 --> 00:08:53,520 Shane Oliver : all talk about the iron ore price being off its 170 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Shane Oliver : highs, but it's still above $ 100 US a ton, which 171 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,260 Shane Oliver : is actually pretty good. If you left Australia and went 172 00:09:01,260 --> 00:09:03,150 Shane Oliver : to Mars and didn't know what happened, say 15 years 173 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:07,230 Shane Oliver : ago, you'd say that iron ore producers are doing fantastically 174 00:09:07,230 --> 00:09:09,840 Shane Oliver : well. They're in clover, so to speak, to borrow that 175 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,799 Shane Oliver : old Australian term. So it is a bit surprising that 176 00:09:13,799 --> 00:09:16,259 Shane Oliver : it's not a little bit stronger, but I think several 177 00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:19,228 Shane Oliver : things have weighed on it. Investors have sort of said, " 178 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:22,500 Shane Oliver : Well, okay, commodity prices are still strong, not just iron 179 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:26,130 Shane Oliver : ore, but also gas and coal price is still high. 180 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:30,120 Shane Oliver : But there's this sort of increasing concern about the Chinese 181 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,328 Shane Oliver : economy." We saw that in the last week, weak data 182 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:36,900 Shane Oliver : for the Chinese economy in the June quarter. The so- 183 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:40,710 Shane Oliver : called third plenum didn't really deliver any extra stimulus. There 184 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:45,360 Shane Oliver : was lots of words about deepening and optimizing and all 185 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,490 Shane Oliver : that sort of stuff, but nothing concrete in terms of 186 00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:51,540 Shane Oliver : stimulus. So that's still weighing on our market or on the 187 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:54,388 Shane Oliver : Aussie dollar rather. The other one is just you get 188 00:09:54,389 --> 00:09:58,650 Shane Oliver : this overriding strength in the US dollar. Investors are still 189 00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:01,290 Shane Oliver : feeling nervous about the global economy. There is a perverse 190 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:04,920 Shane Oliver : relationship here. Then whenever there's worries about things globally, the 191 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,309 Shane Oliver : US dollar is strong. Even if some of those things 192 00:10:08,309 --> 00:10:11,279 Shane Oliver : to worry about are in the US, the US dollar 193 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,380 Shane Oliver : has tended to be a safe haven. So that's sort 194 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:17,338 Shane Oliver : of been strong and again meant a relatively low Aussie 195 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,550 Shane Oliver : dollar. But right now you are right. It is relatively 196 00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:23,670 Shane Oliver : cheap. It should be well into the 70s on a 197 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:28,650 Shane Oliver : fair value analysis, whereas it's currently meandering around 67 US 198 00:10:28,650 --> 00:10:33,210 Shane Oliver : cents. I'm conscious that J. K. Galbraith, a well- known 199 00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:36,689 Shane Oliver : economist in the US observed that there's two types of economists, and 200 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,170 Shane Oliver : you can express this particularly in relation to currencies. There's 201 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:43,708 Shane Oliver : those who don't know, and there's those who don't know 202 00:10:43,708 --> 00:10:47,098 Shane Oliver : that they don't know. So hopefully I'm not in the latter camp, 203 00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:49,710 Shane Oliver : but I have to be realistic about the currency. I 204 00:10:49,710 --> 00:10:54,570 Shane Oliver : tend to think it will go up, but economists have to take currency forecasts 205 00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:58,260 Shane Oliver : with a degree of humility because they've often been wrong. 206 00:10:59,460 --> 00:11:01,860 Sean Aylmer: Alan Greenspan has said when someone asked him about which way the currency 207 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,930 Sean Aylmer: is going to go, and he said, " Flip a coin." 208 00:11:04,350 --> 00:11:05,279 Sean Aylmer: Something along those lines. 209 00:11:06,359 --> 00:11:09,840 Shane Oliver : It could have been Greenspan. Currencies are the hardest thing 210 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,500 Shane Oliver : to get right of all investment markets as far as I 211 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:16,920 Shane Oliver : can tell. I would argue that Bitcoin, not so much 212 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,499 Shane Oliver : the level, but the direct thing. You can trade Bitcoin 213 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:21,900 Shane Oliver : fairly easily on the back of technicals, whereas currencies are 214 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:22,410 Shane Oliver : a lot harder. 215 00:11:23,429 --> 00:11:25,170 Sean Aylmer: Shane, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 216 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:27,120 Shane Oliver : Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me. 217 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:29,820 Sean Aylmer: That was Shane Oliver, Head of Investment Strategy and Economics 218 00:11:29,820 --> 00:11:32,910 Sean Aylmer: and Chief Economist at AMP. This is the Fear & Greed 219 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:36,120 Sean Aylmer: Business Interview. Remember, this is general information only and you 220 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,838 Sean Aylmer: should seek professional advice before making investment decisions. Join us 221 00:11:39,839 --> 00:11:42,389 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full episode of Fear & Greed, business 222 00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:44,850 Sean Aylmer: news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean 223 00:11:44,850 --> 00:11:46,260 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Enjoy your day.