WEBVTT - The AFP’s secretive new anti-protest command

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<v Speaker 1>What I do when I wake up in the morning.

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<v Speaker 1>I look for things that are in the newspapers, things

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<v Speaker 1>that are taking place in the Senate or in the House.

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<v Speaker 2>Rex Patrick is a former Senator from South Australia. Before that,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a sub mariner in the Navy. These days,

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<v Speaker 2>he devotes himself to making government more transparent, which he

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<v Speaker 2>does by launching an obsessive number of freedom of information

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<v Speaker 2>request and scrutinizing what comes back.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, I have been keeping a close watch on ORCUST.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw something come up referencing Orcust Commands and I

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<v Speaker 1>thought that's really interesting. There were no details available publicly,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I put in a request to both the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian Submarine Agency and the Australian Federal Police in June

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<v Speaker 1>last year, seeking access to information about the command, how

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<v Speaker 1>it came, about, what its objects were and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>When the FLIS came back, a lot had been redacted.

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<v Speaker 2>Rex was looking at pages and pages of blacked out text.

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<v Speaker 2>But from what wasn't bothered out, he started the former

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<v Speaker 2>picture of ORCUST Command, a specialized arm of the Australian

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<v Speaker 2>Federal Police being used to protect submarines and other military assets,

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<v Speaker 2>but also to crack down on dissent. I'm Daniel James

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<v Speaker 2>and you're listening to seven AM today Rex Patrick on

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<v Speaker 2>the Australian Federal Police. The new powers to protect America's

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<v Speaker 2>interests in Australia are what it means for the future

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<v Speaker 2>of protest. It's Monday, January nineteenth. Rex. Tell me about

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<v Speaker 2>the afpg's ORCST Command. Who are they and what will

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<v Speaker 2>they be doing? So?

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<v Speaker 1>The ORCST Command is a new command within the AFP,

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<v Speaker 1>set up over the last six months, and its function

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<v Speaker 1>is to provide a secure ADO overlay to Orcus submarines,

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<v Speaker 1>that is US and UK submarines operating out of Western

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<v Speaker 1>Australia and other Australian ports. But actually, more broadly, what

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<v Speaker 1>the document showed is that the REMIT goes much much

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<v Speaker 1>broader than what I've just talked about, And in actual fact,

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<v Speaker 1>there's an MLU and a memorandum of understanding that's been

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<v Speaker 1>signed between the Australian Federal Police and not the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>Submarine Agency but the Department of Defense, so much broader

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<v Speaker 1>and so it's planned at least at this stage, that

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<v Speaker 1>the AFP will have four teams of people who will

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<v Speaker 1>look after things like when a submarine comes in, making

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<v Speaker 1>sure they're escorted. The documents show that the force will

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<v Speaker 1>have a marine asset of some form of boat with

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<v Speaker 1>training Coxin's on board jet skis remotely piloted aircraft and

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<v Speaker 1>that will allow the police to provide a protective service

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<v Speaker 1>for submarines that are transiting in and out of Hma Stirling.

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<v Speaker 1>But the brief makes it very clear that what the

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<v Speaker 1>government wants to do is build up a capability to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with outrage from the public. So public order management

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<v Speaker 1>are the words that are used, and they talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the deployment of munitions associated with public disturbances. One presumes

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<v Speaker 1>that things like tear gas, potentially battens, potentially shields, other

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<v Speaker 1>assets that can be used in the face of protesters.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's a pretty big shopping list in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the resources going into this command. What kind of budget

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<v Speaker 2>are we talking about here.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's a fair bit of money sitting behind this.

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<v Speaker 1>This wasn't revealed in the documents, but the documents did

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<v Speaker 1>talk about a submission for MAIFO, which is the midyear

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<v Speaker 1>budget statement if you like, which took place in descent.

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<v Speaker 1>I've gone and looked at that now and we can

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<v Speaker 1>see that home affairs for the AFP Command are getting

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<v Speaker 1>an extra seventy three million dollars this year at about

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and twenty three or thereabouts million next year.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's two hundred million dollars over the next year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half. That's a lot of money. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of capability that they're building.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to ask a few questions on recruiting,

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<v Speaker 2>and I understand that AFP has some recruiting commitments under ORCUS.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact at centain Essence. I note that Senator

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<v Speaker 1>David Pocock asked questions in relation to the ORCUST Command

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<v Speaker 1>talking about numbers of potentially up to eight hundred members

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<v Speaker 1>of the AFP and being involved. That's quite significant.

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<v Speaker 3>The AFP has been given the responsibility to put to

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<v Speaker 3>implement the protective overlay in relation to UCUS, particularly around

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<v Speaker 3>australia sovereign nuclear powered submarines capability. We are currently implementing

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<v Speaker 3>the protective service overlay.

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<v Speaker 1>And in some sense it's a bit that's a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit disturbing about this because it hasn't been talked about. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we've got to respect that there will be controversy over

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear powered submarines. People have a right to protest, and

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<v Speaker 1>that protest might include over where and how nuclear waste

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be handled, for example, things that reasonably

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<v Speaker 1>people in as members of the public have a right

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<v Speaker 1>to know about and a right to be concerned about,

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<v Speaker 1>and a right to object to if they wish to.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>I find that there's a sort of a strong contrast

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<v Speaker 1>between the level of secrecy that's been engaged to date

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<v Speaker 1>and the fact that it involves interaction with the public.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone gets that there are secrets around submarines. I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>former submariner and I respect secrecy in relation to military capability.

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<v Speaker 1>But where it intersects with the public being either safety

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<v Speaker 1>or waste or the ability to protest, I think the

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<v Speaker 1>government has a duty, has an obligation to share their

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<v Speaker 1>concerns with the public and be opening up front about

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<v Speaker 1>any remedies they have in respect of those concerns.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up. What could anti ORCUS protest in Australia look like? Rex,

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<v Speaker 2>How would you describe the scale of anti ORCHUS protests

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia so far?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this stage, much of the protest about UCUS has

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<v Speaker 1>taken place in relatively small groups, and of course, there

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<v Speaker 1>are people who are very concerned, even myself. I'm a submariner.

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<v Speaker 1>I understand the benefit of submarines, but I just think

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<v Speaker 1>that spending three hundred and sixty eight billion dollars on

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<v Speaker 1>one single capability, particularly where there's huge risk involved, is

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<v Speaker 1>hugely problematic. I write about UCUS all the time in

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<v Speaker 1>that context, but I suspect as time marches on, as

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<v Speaker 1>we start to see more and more submarines turning up,

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<v Speaker 1>there may well be a right in the number of

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<v Speaker 1>protests associated with these deployments, and as the number of

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<v Speaker 1>US forces pick up, particularly in circumstances where we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>the United States walking away from things like a rules

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<v Speaker 1>based order, engaging in discussions like attacking Denmark, attacking Panama,

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<v Speaker 1>and indeed going into a sovereign jurisdiction and taking a

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<v Speaker 1>president from that country to post charges in the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>So people are actually a little bit concerned about these things,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm talking about people who normally would sit on

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<v Speaker 1>the right side of politics. We may well see a

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<v Speaker 1>rise in protest and respect of the United States. And

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<v Speaker 1>the fact is that government has seen this coming and

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<v Speaker 1>have formed the Orchest Command REX.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no doubt that you love a freedom of information request.

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<v Speaker 2>You spend a lot of time challenging the government on

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<v Speaker 2>the need for transparency. At the same time, as you've mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>is obviously also a legitimate need for some defense information

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<v Speaker 2>to remain secret. So what do you think the public

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<v Speaker 2>needs to know about the creation of this AFP task force?

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<v Speaker 1>Again, because it intersects with the public. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if I were asking for information about how deep Virginia

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<v Speaker 1>class submarines go, or how fast they go, or how

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<v Speaker 1>to override the interlocks on the torpedos, I would expect

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<v Speaker 1>properly for the Department of Events to say, sorry, Rex,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not allowed to have access to that. That's not

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<v Speaker 1>in the public interest to have access to that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of information. And of course I've accept that, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think everyone appreciates that when you are dealing with nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>powered submarrange, you do have to provide appropriate security. We

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<v Speaker 1>would expect that to occur in Australia. I've been to

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<v Speaker 1>Pearl Harbor, I've sailed on US nuclear powered submarines, and

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<v Speaker 1>they have a commensurate level of security at their basis

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure that these nuclear assets are properly protected.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, a clear example where I say there's

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<v Speaker 1>intersection with the public is where they're going to store

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<v Speaker 1>the high level nuclear waste. Now, whether you are in

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<v Speaker 1>favor of Aucus or against Aucus, I think one would

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<v Speaker 1>reasonably say that public have a right to know what

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<v Speaker 1>is your approach to dealing with nuclear waste. I'm currently

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<v Speaker 1>in the federal court trying to get access to a

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<v Speaker 1>document that describes how they're going to select the location,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that that's a document that ought to

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<v Speaker 1>be made public. We ought to be talking about it

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<v Speaker 1>because it intersects very closely with the public. Other areas

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<v Speaker 1>might be safety, nuclear safety. The public have a right

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<v Speaker 1>to scrutinize what's happening in relation to AUCUST and nuclear safety.

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<v Speaker 1>August we know is going to last for fifty years,

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<v Speaker 1>and indeed we can see in this instance it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>matter that the die from the AFP was six months,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's still very relevant and as well, moving forward,

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<v Speaker 1>there are a number of issues that I think the

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<v Speaker 1>publics have a right to know, things like the cost

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<v Speaker 1>of the program breaking down and telling us exactly how

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<v Speaker 1>we get to some of these very large numbers. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not engaging any defense secrets in saying to the government.

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<v Speaker 1>Please provide details of what your success has been so

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<v Speaker 1>far in that endeavor, and that's just about holding government

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<v Speaker 1>to account.

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<v Speaker 2>Looks Patrick. Thank you so much for speaking with us again.

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<v Speaker 1>You're most welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news, the government will split its hate

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<v Speaker 2>speech and gun and reform laws into separate bills. The

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister has confirmed as in the Albinezi can seize.

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<v Speaker 2>The omnibus bill dealing with both reforms, designed in the

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<v Speaker 2>wake of the Bondai terror attack, does not have the

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<v Speaker 2>support parliament. Neither the Coalition or the Greens were prepared

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<v Speaker 2>to pass the bill in the Senate due to concerns

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<v Speaker 2>over the hate speech legislation, but Green's leader Larissa Waters

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<v Speaker 2>has signaled her party would work with the government on

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<v Speaker 2>gun reform. Parliament returns today and will be following the

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<v Speaker 2>developments on seven AM this week, and the Liberal Party's

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<v Speaker 2>review into its historically bad election result won't be made

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<v Speaker 2>public as planned due to legal concerns. The ABC is

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<v Speaker 2>reporting that Peter Dutton has seen the report and believed

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<v Speaker 2>that that fames him. There's concern that releasing the report

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<v Speaker 2>in its current form would carry legal risks for the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party given the chance Dutton could sue. The review

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<v Speaker 2>was conducted by party veterans Prue Goward and Nick Minchin

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<v Speaker 2>after the Liberal Party saw a collapse in support at

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty five election. I'm Daniel James. This is

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<v Speaker 2>seven am. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 3>No