Speaker 1: Get everyone welcome once again to conversations. My guest today
Speaker 1: is you gotta love speaking to him or listening to him,
Speaker 1: because he was a great player, really talented football player,
Speaker 1: one best and fairest in his first full season with
Speaker 1: the mighty North Melbourne in those days, played in North
Speaker 1: Melbourne's first premiership team. But he's probably much more famous
Speaker 1: to the wider Australia in this day and age because
Speaker 1: of his promotion of our wonderful Lamb products. And I
Speaker 1: can speak of nobody else. Sam Kekevic, Sam, Welcome to Adelaide.
Speaker 2: How are you? I'm outstanding, Graham, and thank you for
Speaker 2: that flattering introduction.
Speaker 1: Well, we all think we know you, but I mean
Speaker 1: those of us who were played at the same time
Speaker 1: as you do. But the more look at it, I
Speaker 1: mean there's more we need to know. So we'll talk
Speaker 1: about all the footy career and the Lamb promotion which
Speaker 1: has given you lots of fame. I suppose no to
Speaker 1: rite you because they attract some criticism to the Australian.
Speaker 1: I don't know why why would people complain about Lambad.
Speaker 2: It's just what I needed. Yeah, I needed that exposure
Speaker 2: in my life. Yeah, I don't know. The landscape of
Speaker 2: the world we live in our gram has changed enormously
Speaker 2: from the day that you and I. Yeah, we're trudging
Speaker 2: our stuff on the on the hallow turf, because our
Speaker 2: DNA was always based on a reverence, tonguing cheek and
Speaker 2: a good old belly laugh. Now that we've been invaded
Speaker 2: by all these intellectual non descripts, missed their vocation in
Speaker 2: life and trying to impinge themselves on the inane crusades,
Speaker 2: trying to validate and legitimize their own existence, the world
Speaker 2: has changed and somehow we've fallen for what.
Speaker 1: People didn't see then. And you didn't miss a beat.
Speaker 1: The microphone fell in your lap without missing a beat.
Speaker 1: Sam just scooped it up and put it back.
Speaker 2: And well, you've got to also understand appropart of that
Speaker 2: part of my intrusion. If you recall in our early
Speaker 2: days and look at you're an old hand at this.
Speaker 2: Now you're an old pro. I'm just, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of hip came away through the labyrinths trying to keep
Speaker 2: up with you. But in the early days, when we're
Speaker 2: thrust on world of sport or through any medium, you
Speaker 2: know you have to fend for yourself. There was no
Speaker 2: such thing as an education. I remember going to World
Speaker 2: of Sport Lou Richard, Jack Dyer and Ron Casey like,
Speaker 2: you've got to be on delta alert there and if
Speaker 2: you didn't stack up, you'd certainly be exposed for all
Speaker 2: your foibles.
Speaker 1: You're definitely We've never got any training at it. It was.
Speaker 1: It was just throwing.
Speaker 2: It's a raw and deep head and see how you
Speaker 2: can survive.
Speaker 1: Actually, you start off on a rant. Just as we
Speaker 1: started speaking about the way of the world how it
Speaker 1: is today. I guess you're talking about politically correctness, plan
Speaker 1: for correctness, and the and the influence of the woke brigade.
Speaker 2: Yes for better or for worse. Well, I think it's
Speaker 2: for worse. I think we're waking up as a nation.
Speaker 2: We realize that we've been due for so long. And
Speaker 2: the reality is I find it quite a barrant when
Speaker 2: we get compartmentalized by being misogynist, racist, homophobic. We're none
Speaker 2: of those things. Our DNA revolves purely, as I said initially,
Speaker 2: on a reverence, satire and tongue in cheek, a good
Speaker 2: old fashioned belly laugh. There's never any intent or malice
Speaker 2: in our in our delivery. The only time, you know,
Speaker 2: there's racism involved, you think a bit better than somebody else.
Speaker 2: And that's certainly not the Australian DNA. Some of the
Speaker 2: dialogue could have could have been, you know, when some
Speaker 2: of the dig has been over the top and unpleasant,
Speaker 2: and I think there had to be some sort of reform. Well,
Speaker 2: some sort of reform you okay, might have been a
Speaker 2: bit brutal or truculent in some regard, but at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, particularly in the fields of endeavor,
Speaker 2: you know, and now I'm talking about sport. Now you know,
Speaker 2: we always doffed ourid, put our met out and enjoyed
Speaker 2: a convivial after the game. It was all forgotten. There
Speaker 2: was no acrimony or no you long held grievances.
Speaker 1: Redown again there's someone who well, yes that again, there's
Speaker 1: somebody you remember, so you do.
Speaker 2: But we always used to handle you know, we dealt
Speaker 2: with it in a very how would I how would
Speaker 2: I say? You know, we dealt We handed out the
Speaker 2: receipt at the appropriate time and the ledger was squared.
Speaker 2: But there was no long term animosity.
Speaker 1: No, you did right. Eventually you do forgive, you do forgive.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the Kekevich family. Now were you're born
Speaker 1: in w A.
Speaker 2: I was born in w A. My parents were freedom fighters.
Speaker 2: They opposed Nazism and communism and the old Yugoslavia freedom fighters.
Speaker 1: They'll expand on that for us.
Speaker 2: Well, they defended their country. They fought with the part
Speaker 2: of the ends with the locals to avert in Yugoslavia
Speaker 2: in Yugoslavia, and then they escaped through tries through the
Speaker 2: north and ended up in Cairo in Egypt, and then
Speaker 2: caught the boat. My brother was born in Alarisia Camp
Speaker 2: in Alarish, Egypt. And in those days when you migrated
Speaker 2: to Australia either went to the US and Canada or
Speaker 2: to Premantle to Australia. Well, we had friends or associates.
Speaker 2: Mom and dad knew them in Fremantle in Australia. So
Speaker 2: we went to a place called Mensumup where we grew tobacco.
Speaker 2: Here we did. Tobacco was a huge industry in those
Speaker 2: days in Mensumup, and then my father was very adept
Speaker 2: at it. And then got a call to come over
Speaker 2: to when the salt got in the soil in a
Speaker 2: memory and went to Myrtleford which is the tobacco hub
Speaker 2: in those days of Mariba in North Queensland. The other
Speaker 2: two tobacco growing areas in the fifties and sixties, sixties
Speaker 2: and seventies, they were huge industries.
Speaker 1: Did your mom and dad ever talk about the war
Speaker 1: about the well, yes, well it escapades, if I can
Speaker 1: call it.
Speaker 2: Well, look very very vaguely, very vaguely. There are some
Speaker 2: very bit of memories. But the great thing about my
Speaker 2: parents and I'm sure well mum had a I believe,
Speaker 2: and I've heard it said a couple of times it
Speaker 2: saw her parents shot before a firing squad. Now that's
Speaker 2: but she never ever elaborated in detail. And of course
Speaker 2: in those days before Tito died, you know, we could
Speaker 2: never go back to Yugoslavia because there was still being
Speaker 2: apprehended in jail. And a lot of people that did
Speaker 2: escape did very well in in the tobacco industry, sent
Speaker 2: money backs for their loved ones that they had to
Speaker 2: leave behind. You know, a lot of people that escaped
Speaker 2: had to leave a lot of loved ones behind, which
Speaker 2: they catered for a little bit later on when they
Speaker 2: did very well. But the ones that tried to go back,
Speaker 2: they were apprehended in jailed. Even still then, is.
Speaker 1: There a hint of emotion you're saying it?
Speaker 2: Well, there is, you know, I mean about family. You
Speaker 2: tearing up. No, I'm not tearing up. I'm just giving
Speaker 2: you the fact that I can recite them because I
Speaker 2: had these conversations in the early pieces. I remember mourning
Speaker 2: me a lot of things about the war and about
Speaker 2: certain races and certain people that you saw firsthand. And
Speaker 2: that's always been indelibly Wisconsin in my mind. But you know,
Speaker 2: as such as life, you move on, you get strong,
Speaker 2: you know. But the one thing I will say about
Speaker 2: my parents, and this is not as an affront or
Speaker 2: anything to the contemporary, but my parents assimilated, learned the language, district,
Speaker 2: their laws, and became leaders of the community. And you
Speaker 2: know in Myrtleford they were very, very proud, and you know,
Speaker 2: they were involved in a lot of communal things, took
Speaker 2: us to all the sports, football, basketball, cricket, you know,
Speaker 2: and really embraced the community.
Speaker 1: So how a were you when you went to Myrtleford?
Speaker 2: I was only I was ten, So.
Speaker 1: That's a that's typical country.
Speaker 2: Victoria Fantastic footy and cricket forty cricket, basketball, you know,
Speaker 2: swim down the river, you know, mix, hang around with
Speaker 2: all your mates, the skills, socials, you know, the occasional
Speaker 2: girlfriend after halftime in the local picture theater. Oh those
Speaker 2: you know, unadulterated, simple things in life that we enjoyed,
Speaker 2: made our own fun. Did your mom dad ever go
Speaker 2: back to No, no, never went back.
Speaker 1: And so you never met your grandparents?
Speaker 2: No, no, Yeah, it's a sad thing. But they obviously
Speaker 2: exchanged letters and phone calls, but never never. We bought
Speaker 2: an uncle out once, the third brother. There were three brothers,
Speaker 2: my father and my eldest, oldest uncle. They came out together.
Speaker 2: The third one, the youngest, went have to stay back
Speaker 2: and look after his parents and look after parents. So
Speaker 2: after years and the seventies, we brought him out to
Speaker 2: see if you get assimilar, but just couldn't. So he
Speaker 2: went back. And you know, a life on the Tata
Speaker 2: Apparent was pretty good. You know, it relaxed a lot
Speaker 2: under the old communist regime. You know, there was that
Speaker 2: a fairly good life.
Speaker 1: Did they escape all the tension and the tumol and
Speaker 1: the violence of you know, Eastern Europe?
Speaker 2: And no, not really you're talking about the war. After
Speaker 2: the war, Oh, there are still remnants of it. I
Speaker 2: think they escaped most most of it is there was
Speaker 2: a lot of activity, you know, in the Balkan region
Speaker 2: during that period.
Speaker 1: Now I understand that like civil war between the service, Yes,
Speaker 1: all of that, all of that. Anyway, let's get back
Speaker 1: to Murtalford. It sounds like a happier well.
Speaker 2: I've always had. I've been lucky, I've escaped it or
Speaker 2: made I've had a charmed life. And with the whole
Speaker 2: you know, the whole family we did as kids. You know,
Speaker 2: it was never thrust upon us. We had the best
Speaker 2: of everything. We never had much money, I'm sure, but
Speaker 2: whatever I had, that was always better. And that's we
Speaker 2: had a good education, a good u a good life.
Speaker 2: We're taking all the sports. We had the best of everything.
Speaker 2: They probably suffered, but we you know, Murderford was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Did you have an ambition as a kid?
Speaker 2: Look any country kid growing up Graham you should know
Speaker 2: that always had a manic obsession to play league football.
Speaker 2: That's all we lived for to become a league football.
Speaker 2: You know. I used to run around trying to get
Speaker 2: every snippet of news that cards. I used to collect
Speaker 2: every card.
Speaker 1: Who was Who was your hero?
Speaker 2: Well? I used to like Ray Gabrick. I was a
Speaker 2: mayor calling supporter Big gave was you know, I fell
Speaker 2: in love with him and you know Leaf football was
Speaker 2: everything I lived and died for it.
Speaker 1: We need to take a break. I don't want to,
Speaker 1: but we will. Sam Kekevich is my guest, will embark
Speaker 1: on this footy career when we come back back Shortley, folks.
Speaker 1: My guest on conversations today is the famous or people
Speaker 1: could say infamous, perhaps Sam Keikovich. We know him fondly
Speaker 1: for his ads on the TV and social media about
Speaker 1: his promotion of the lamb industry, the meat industry. But
Speaker 1: if it just turned in. He and his parents have
Speaker 1: immigrated from Yoslavia after the I know it's got different
Speaker 1: names now, but growing up in a country town of
Speaker 1: Victoria called Myrtleford, which was famous for tobacco industry. They
Speaker 1: still grow tobacco.
Speaker 2: I think I got quator system now. I think that's
Speaker 2: all gone, all terminators. A lot of wines there now.
Speaker 2: But even prior to that, I was in a I
Speaker 2: was called Gunbao near Kahuna. Up until ten I had
Speaker 2: I had one year Cahuna High School and then we
Speaker 2: moved over to Cahunahs on the Murray River and here
Speaker 2: we took about twenty five forty miles horse of Ichuka.
Speaker 1: So you grew up wanting to be Ray Gabli playing.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a le football there, but I enjoyed.
Speaker 2: I was a command colling with supporter and our footy.
Speaker 2: Our end of season holiday, for want of a better term,
Speaker 2: was always the Grand Final. We go to Melbourne and
Speaker 2: Dad to take us to Melbourne. We'd have three or
Speaker 2: four days in Melbourne, so we come there, get their Friday,
Speaker 2: go the MCG. I got to the BFA Grand Final
Speaker 2: of for Sunday, which was big and also in those
Speaker 2: days and we could all we always secure tickets because
Speaker 2: my uncle had a good rapport with a guy that
Speaker 2: you will know called Mary Wiedeman. Mary Whedeman went to
Speaker 2: Aubrey as a coach and in those days you might
Speaker 2: recall in the early seventies the country had all the money.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of champion football in the b fellows
Speaker 2: that was now and then left prematurely like Weedham and
Speaker 2: bob Rose and every club is particularly my area called
Speaker 2: the Avans and Murray like Mirtleford, Yarrawanga, Corowa, Ruther, Glenn
Speaker 2: Banella all had league league players because that's where the
Speaker 2: money was. And Weedham and I think left at twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Bobby Rose the same age and Mary had They set
Speaker 2: him up very well in Aubury. He was a captain
Speaker 2: coach of Aubury. So you must have been the star
Speaker 2: as a junior. Well, yeah, have all three boys must
Speaker 2: have been good? Yeah, we were well, we had a
Speaker 2: mad passion for the game and you know we had
Speaker 2: a natural, a natural tendency towards it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So when did North Melbourne come knocking.
Speaker 2: In about sixty seven? They started sixty eight. Brian, my
Speaker 2: older brother, went to Carlton. They played in the premiersure
Speaker 2: I was going to Carlton. They resigned to go to Carlton.
Speaker 2: What happened, Well, if you recall, and you know you're
Speaker 2: a very astute and very well researched. But the AFL,
Speaker 2: in their wisdom was the BFL overnight, implemented a policy
Speaker 2: called zoning. Oh remember that, So the best performed country
Speaker 2: zone was allocated of the worst performed league club. So
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the Avans and Murray, which was
Speaker 2: the leading country zone, was allocated to North Melbourne, so
Speaker 2: I had no.
Speaker 1: Choice and they were the bottom team.
Speaker 2: They were the bottom team.
Speaker 1: How did you feel?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, well I was delighted just to go
Speaker 2: to the just to be playing VFL football. I didn't
Speaker 2: care where I went. But Ron Joseph was very, very
Speaker 2: very forceful in assertive and we loved Ron Joseph. And
Speaker 2: of course he recruited the bulk of the seventy five
Speaker 2: premiership side and you know, run very well. It just
Speaker 2: unfortunately passed away just recently as well. So it was
Speaker 2: you know, there were no hard years, our early years,
Speaker 2: but the great thing of being associated with the clubs
Speaker 2: that struggled, we also enjoyed the really good years with
Speaker 2: when Ron Barassi arrived.
Speaker 1: Your brothers at Carlton.
Speaker 2: My brothers at Carlton played in the premiership. Premiership sided
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight and if you recall the great
Speaker 2: trivia quiz where the victor kick less goals than the vanquished,
Speaker 2: Carlton kicked seven, Eston kick d eight and Brian kicked
Speaker 2: four of the seven. Really, yeah, it's interesting. I didn't know,
Speaker 2: but I was heading to Carlton and I often told
Speaker 2: them if I had have gone to Carlton, I'd be
Speaker 2: rack raving to John Nichols that I enjoyed North Melbourne
Speaker 2: and then said, I look, I owe everything in North Melbourne. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you walk into North who was coaching Keith McKenzie.
Speaker 2: He was a champion rover of the club at the time.
Speaker 2: Aileen and co had just retired. Doug Dale and Lorry
Speaker 2: Dewai were the big names there. Of course, good guys,
Speaker 2: great guys. And I arrived there Wednesday night. I had
Speaker 2: a bitter battle than to this day. I regretted, but
Speaker 2: I did A left there in tears at Birdleford, who
Speaker 2: you know, we were on the cusp of winning our
Speaker 2: first ever premiership and I was in fine form there
Speaker 2: at an R forty. You know, I was a seventeen
Speaker 2: year old kid. But so you walk out eventually he
Speaker 2: walked out. I said, I just wanted the opportunity in
Speaker 2: Rome was either going to kill Ron Joseph and my
Speaker 2: mother and I and Ron Joseph drove into Melbourne. A
Speaker 2: car broke down at Banilla. We got the love of
Speaker 2: God it I don't know what he did, but he
Speaker 2: fixed it. We got in the Melbourne. About some ungodly hour.
Speaker 2: We dropped mamat the motel in North Melbourne. We drove
Speaker 2: the high that Ron's property. This was This was Wednesday
Speaker 2: night or Tuesday night, one of the two. The following
Speaker 2: day we went to John pars and he bought me
Speaker 2: a suit, two shirts. Anyhow, I had a whole new
Speaker 2: wardrobe and I trained that night Thursday night. For the
Speaker 2: first time. We didn't knowing too many Petans, too many
Speaker 2: of the players. I knew a lot of them because
Speaker 2: I studied. I loved the game and I went straight
Speaker 2: into the side. Geelong. We played you along in our
Speaker 2: first game whereabout at Aden Street, and I played on
Speaker 2: a guy called Dennis Marshall. Good player he was, and
Speaker 2: I managed to was sentiment. I played in the center
Speaker 2: in my first game, kidding me. I was seventeen. It
Speaker 2: just turned ada in.
Speaker 1: Your first game you've trained once and Marshall.
Speaker 2: Straight in the side. Anyhow, I did you win? No,
Speaker 2: we got beaten, but I was uh nearly nearly got
Speaker 2: the votres. I had a really good game, an impressive game.
Speaker 2: Bet his fate would have it. On the Saturday night
Speaker 2: I went to I think it was in Melbourne tonight
Speaker 2: one of the Graham Kenny shows, I think it was
Speaker 2: Sunday was on World of Sport. On the Monday I
Speaker 2: got on TV Ring Side, I won the Player of
Speaker 2: the Week award, the cock or whatever it was. Wednesday
Speaker 2: had a new Manaro. So I'm in the I in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: I'm in Melbourne four days, I think five days. I
Speaker 2: thought to myself, Ship, this is a lot easy, and
Speaker 2: I thought was fretting about league football. God strike a light.
Speaker 2: And of course, as I learned later on, in life
Speaker 2: got harder, It got a lot harder.
Speaker 1: So what happened to your mates at Mertleford? Did they
Speaker 1: they were in the flag?
Speaker 2: Ah? No they did not. They did later on they
Speaker 2: won the flag later on. But I had a great
Speaker 2: association with a lot of those guys at Mertleford that
Speaker 2: taught me so much. Martin Cross was the coach at
Speaker 2: the time, an ex Carlton raver. But we had a
Speaker 2: wonderful life and a great report of great community involvement.
Speaker 1: Okay, so tell me now some North Melbourne, a perennial
Speaker 1: cellar dweller. Then Ron Barassi comes, You're you're, you're there.
Speaker 1: When Ron Barassi arrives, I am.
Speaker 2: I'm at the peakham of powers when he arrived. Tell
Speaker 2: us about that, well, you can imagine the place, the
Speaker 2: euphoric scenes, the place was went a gog. Was when
Speaker 2: it was announced that Ron Barassi was going to coach
Speaker 2: the Cellar Dwell. I had the audacity game in the
Speaker 2: marketplace to cure the biggest single name in the game.
Speaker 2: And I remember vividly when it was announced the following
Speaker 2: day that Ron Barassi was going to coach us. Even
Speaker 2: I got that excited. I decided I was going to
Speaker 2: train that year, but he was. It was just phenomenal.
Speaker 2: They were, you know, the streets of North Melbourne, Inner
Speaker 2: Melbourne's industrial suburbs like Kensington, North Melbourne. The North Melbourne
Speaker 2: supporters who threw sick and thin and through rayin hale
Speaker 2: and shine supported the club, you know, with great passion,
Speaker 2: and the great Messiah arrived and virtually flicked things overnight.
Speaker 2: But also we had a we had a very astute
Speaker 2: leadership to Al Naylor took over the Helm as the
Speaker 2: president and he took advantage of a law that permitted
Speaker 2: ten year players to transfer clubs, and that led to
Speaker 2: the advent of Doug Wade. Johnny Rantell and also Barry
Speaker 2: Davis who captained our first ever premiership. So that was
Speaker 2: a lovely a lovely filler for one of a better
Speaker 2: term because at the nucleus of a very very good side,
Speaker 2: the shumer Bushes and the Blights and the Greggs and
Speaker 2: the Brightesses and you know, and the likes were still developed.
Speaker 2: And that really topped this off nicely.
Speaker 1: If you evaded the question what was the first training
Speaker 1: session like under Ambrassi? What sort of impact did he make?
Speaker 1: What demands did he.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you the mans. I'll tell you right now.
Speaker 2: I was in a catatonic state when he opened his mouth.
Speaker 2: You know, it's trance like you'd just you could feel
Speaker 2: the spine almost tingle. His very presence and he had
Speaker 2: that big, loud voice, but there wasn't a voice or
Speaker 2: his power of verration that really moved you. It was
Speaker 2: just his very presence. Let's telling you. Well, you well
Speaker 2: know that yourself, you experienced it yourself. But I'll tell
Speaker 2: you what he could deliver a terrade of invective and
Speaker 2: unbridled abuse that there wouldn't be a HR department that
Speaker 2: could adjudicate on it. I'll tell you. And today's the
Speaker 2: contemporarys of today, let me tell you, they would be
Speaker 2: running home to their mothers that quickly. I don't want
Speaker 2: to play this game anymore. I got that brute over
Speaker 2: here telling me what to do.
Speaker 1: That was the That was the only issue I had
Speaker 1: with barrass not that I felt it, but I saw
Speaker 1: it that the way he would abuse players, and the
Speaker 1: and then that I thought that was a failing of
Speaker 1: How can I criticize him because the record stands for everything.
Speaker 1: You look at the record and it's unassailable. But at
Speaker 1: the same time.
Speaker 2: There's others to share that thought. But to his eternal credit,
Speaker 2: I must confess, Barass was never selfish in that regard.
Speaker 2: You know, as aurora as that may sound, it was
Speaker 2: always intended for the benefit of the recipient, to extract
Speaker 2: a performance. It's more conducive to him being a better player.
Speaker 2: It was never about him. In fact, he was the
Speaker 2: only one. He's the only one that ever didn't realize
Speaker 2: how famous he was.
Speaker 1: I think he suffered that fate at the hand of
Speaker 1: Norman Smith.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a similar thing. He was a whipping I
Speaker 2: was a wheeping boy too, with a lot of us were,
Speaker 2: and you know normal Smith was certainly instrumental in that
Speaker 2: used to keep him very tight.
Speaker 1: The great Sam Kikovich, he's my guess, folks back after
Speaker 1: the break, Welcome back everybody. If you just tuned in,
Speaker 1: we're chatting with Sam Keikovich. And as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great experience when the MIC's on
Speaker 1: and when it's off, it's it's great. We're talking footy
Speaker 1: mainly and we'll probably come to the to the Lamb
Speaker 1: story a bit a bit later. But if you just
Speaker 1: churned in, Sam as a young fellow come down from
Speaker 1: Myrtleford trains, once goes into the center in his first game,
Speaker 1: plays well, it starts to establish himself as a North
Speaker 1: Melbourne player, the great Ron Brass. He arrives North Melbourne,
Speaker 1: recruit extremely well and start to get some success. Now,
Speaker 1: can we can we jump to the early days? I mean,
Speaker 1: because you were a glamorous player, won't you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But you can't you can't resilve from that.
Speaker 2: No. Well, look but North moment was that sort of
Speaker 2: club where we're Hollywood and in those days they would
Speaker 2: promote that element. You know, it's not like today they
Speaker 2: keep it under under a under lock and key because
Speaker 2: they might give you opposition, you know, an advantage of
Speaker 2: some descriptions, and you know, but no, we were comforting
Speaker 2: our own skin and the club, you know, perceived someone
Speaker 2: like myself who was you know, probably had some marketing,
Speaker 2: you know benefit.
Speaker 1: What was it? What was that marking? Was that your physique?
Speaker 1: Was that your good looks? Was it your charisma?
Speaker 2: Well, that's not makes it very difficult. Got a listening audience,
Speaker 2: But you've got to say not that hard in the eye.
Speaker 1: Well, fifty years ago you won your best and first
Speaker 1: in your first year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, second year sixty nine?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, when were you surprised at that?
Speaker 2: Not really, I thought, I just said, well, you know,
Speaker 2: well that's you, to be honest, you know, when you've
Speaker 2: played well, when you've had a good year. Some of
Speaker 2: those great players that you're playing with, what position did
Speaker 2: you play ruckraver?
Speaker 1: Okay, and who was your ruckland then?
Speaker 2: Ah, well had Barry Goodie Gooda and Rodney Dell in
Speaker 2: the early days, but Barry Goodean predominantly, and then mc
Speaker 2: nolan in later days. The galloping is somitra what a guy?
Speaker 2: What a guy? Buried big Meck.
Speaker 1: So you've won the best and fairest and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're a big star in Melbourne playing for
Speaker 1: this What was happening off the field, well, what was
Speaker 1: happening off the field, Well got probably ahead of myself
Speaker 1: and you know, low Lely club light, No its Melbourne
Speaker 1: probably tolerated a bit more than they perps should have
Speaker 1: even run by his own definition, said they've had. I
Speaker 1: got to a more successful club where there was a
Speaker 1: discipline imposed a bit more stringently because of you know
Speaker 1: the fact that the club is, you know, you got
Speaker 1: a number of superstars. Perhaps might have been a bit different.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I just, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: fell in love with the bright lights and neon science
Speaker 1: for a period of time and football after a while.
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that it was of paramount importance.
Speaker 2: But I did get back after Barras. When Brass arrived,
Speaker 2: he shook me and shook that lethargy, and I got
Speaker 2: back on back on track, and I had a couple
Speaker 2: of great years with barrass.
Speaker 1: Tell Us about the nude centerfold, oh God, strike a lot.
Speaker 1: You can't avoid it, Well you can't, it's there.
Speaker 2: I realized that I'm not trying to avoid it. Had
Speaker 2: the revolve. I guess, gee, we're trying to augmentor me
Speaker 2: are income that we're on with? You know that? And
Speaker 2: then it'd be up at X amount for a did
Speaker 2: a photo shirt? Well there was a there was a
Speaker 2: slighter molument, a small stipend. Nothing to talk about these days,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I was approached what I do in nude centerfold?
Speaker 2: I thought, well, yeah, but I run again enough, I was.
Speaker 2: I was even approached a little bit earlier than that
Speaker 2: if I would do a strip show twice a week
Speaker 2: at a at a colorful venue, a bit like the
Speaker 2: Chippendales in Yeah, twice a week for about five hundred
Speaker 2: dollars now five hundred dollars a week.
Speaker 1: As you know in those days, why are you talking
Speaker 1: sixty seven sixty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sixty nine, seventy seventy years Wow, you know you
Speaker 2: can buy a house for five thousand.
Speaker 1: I remember getting forty four dollars a week in the
Speaker 1: job that I was doing at the time Vietnam with combattle.
Speaker 1: House was fifty five, although we didn't pay tax, so
Speaker 1: that was five hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: Five hundred dollars. You're kidding, Oh, I was that tempted,
Speaker 2: But I thought, how could I possibly tell my parents, now,
Speaker 2: what are you doing? Sun up? So we spent half
Speaker 2: our lives educating you and well, Mum, you wouldn't believe
Speaker 2: I'm just having offered this wonderful year and then gave
Speaker 2: back to the club and tell Ron Joseph and Ron
Speaker 2: Baressi and Alan Ailet. Look, I don't think anyone will
Speaker 2: really knowed us if I just went across just two
Speaker 2: nights a week, and you could imagine the response. There
Speaker 2: was a kind of avoid asking this question because well,
Speaker 2: ask it because there's a sadness. Your older brother played
Speaker 2: for Carlton. Younger brother, My younger brother, Michael was killed. Yes,
Speaker 2: in I was seventy two, and he was an outstander.
Speaker 2: He was an outsider where he played a game at Melbourne,
Speaker 2: at North Melbourne when he was sixteen. Yeah, he was
Speaker 2: a trendy grammar and he decided to run home after
Speaker 2: a game one Saturday night in the rain, in the
Speaker 2: midst of the mid midwinter, and unfortunately tragically got struck.
Speaker 2: And that was a you could imagine. My mother was
Speaker 2: in Merderford. Dad was home on his own. Brian was
Speaker 2: a Carlton somewhere. I was at North Melbourne, and I'll
Speaker 2: never forget when Ron Joseph called me in from the
Speaker 2: players after the game entertainment. You know, we help sharing
Speaker 2: a beer with the opposition of Us and Kilda.
Speaker 1: It was a Saturday.
Speaker 2: It was a Saturday Saturday night, and I remember On
Speaker 2: Joseph calling me into his office and told me your
Speaker 2: brother's being killed.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Well the whole world fell apart, and then you know,
Speaker 2: Dad being home on his own, he collapsed. Then they
Speaker 2: bought Mums Edta she wont to go to the morgue,
Speaker 2: and then they just compounded from there on n So
Speaker 2: there are difficult times. Well it's hard to imagine unless
Speaker 2: you've been through it.
Speaker 1: We can't.
Speaker 2: You can't. You know, you pick up the tissues every day.
Speaker 2: I mean you read them some atrocities, you know, kids
Speaker 2: being molested or kids dying or drowning, and you think,
Speaker 2: oh god, that shocking, and your even on at the
Speaker 2: next page. But when it actually happens in your own doorstep,
Speaker 2: you know it impacts enormously. And to see parents bury
Speaker 2: children is a horror story. We always recognize that we've
Speaker 2: got to buryer parents, that's inevitable, but to see the
Speaker 2: opposite it's gut wrenching.
Speaker 1: Has he left a legacy? Can you? Can you maintain
Speaker 1: a legacy his memory?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the school, the school has as a legacy
Speaker 2: of him and to us, he's always left the legacy
Speaker 2: you know of you know, even at that tender age,
Speaker 2: you know, and I remember Ron and Alan Aylett saying
Speaker 2: he had enormous leadership qualities even then, and his schooled
Speaker 2: for the very first time beat Assumption. A lot of
Speaker 2: his a lot of the lot of the Assumption players
Speaker 2: of that era often still speak highly of the time
Speaker 2: that you know, Michael Kekevich, you know, played such a
Speaker 2: prominent role, and a lot of the people that went
Speaker 2: to Trendy Grammar still speak highly of his association with
Speaker 2: the footy Tip. So yeah, but he did leave her
Speaker 2: lasting legacy and you know, and memory to us all.
Speaker 1: So, what is happening in your private life as we speak? No,
Speaker 1: not now? When you're this glamorous stripper.
Speaker 2: Well, Elvis on tour, a bevy of beauties and bright
Speaker 2: lights and neon science. As they say, they say to George,
Speaker 2: best way to go wrong? George, I said, what where
Speaker 2: do they go wrong? No? Well, I was always in
Speaker 2: those days we all worked. Yeah. Life was great. Life
Speaker 2: was a ball. We trained and played and I was
Speaker 2: happy to just you know, keep going. And of course
Speaker 2: when it all came to an end, not that it
Speaker 2: didn't bother me. You know, I wasn't lost. I was
Speaker 2: quite content. I did what I wanted to do, and
Speaker 2: I was I guess all I was asking did you
Speaker 2: get married? Did you get Yeah, yeah, I got married.
Speaker 2: Did you get married to kids? Yeah, you got married,
Speaker 2: got three grand kids. I got married and separate and
Speaker 2: divorced and went and I was been with a partner
Speaker 2: there for forty odd years.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So life's pretty stable to the to the one that.
Speaker 1: So the injuries took us told to there was a
Speaker 1: sum criticism of your injuries were extra curricular? Played soccer?
Speaker 1: You played? Well? I did?
Speaker 2: I did. I did be knee. The first knee I
Speaker 2: did was I did against Romania in the Harry Vitals
Speaker 2: glast thing. Oh okay, so I did that and that
Speaker 2: was a But in those days, in the seventies, for
Speaker 2: God's sake, you know, a tourm, a cruciate liguament. You know,
Speaker 2: in those days, you're on your back for two weeks,
Speaker 2: you're plaster of Paris and you're wither away and you've
Speaker 2: got to rebuild. You know, it's all about immobilization these days.
Speaker 2: You get up. The minute you're off, the block is
Speaker 2: still on your feet. So medicine's taken a whole new turn.
Speaker 2: And of course not tho I'm using that excuse. I
Speaker 2: had a lot of a lot of injuries, a lot
Speaker 2: of knee problems. But I still likeaked out a very
Speaker 2: good career over ten years, which I really, you know,
Speaker 2: am grateful for. I had some great surgeons and but.
Speaker 1: They're so different than this day and age. Oh so different.
Speaker 2: Keyhole operations.
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of Barry Robin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just never the same, never the same, You're never
Speaker 2: the same. But now they help tital titanium replacements. You know,
Speaker 2: in those days they'd pack it up with a bit
Speaker 2: of concrete or they'd stitch it up. And but I
Speaker 2: had John Grant at the time at North Melbourne. He
Speaker 2: was a father of you know, that type of medicine,
Speaker 2: and he was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Sam Kekovich is my guest. Folks were a little bit
Speaker 1: more footy to come after the break. But then we'll
Speaker 1: talk about his new found fame in later years. Back
Speaker 1: shortly we're speaking with Sam Kekevich, who's in town for Actually,
Speaker 1: what are you in town for?
Speaker 2: Well, I was in town to do a speaking engagement.
Speaker 1: Okay, whereabouts?
Speaker 2: I was at the for Variety.
Speaker 1: Oh well done?
Speaker 2: Yeah, good cause I do a fair bit with them.
Speaker 2: They're fantastic.
Speaker 1: If you just tuned in, we've tracked Sam's career from
Speaker 1: Myrtleford to North Melbourne. Injuries start to take their toll.
Speaker 1: Do you give it away or do you get sacked?
Speaker 1: Or does Piran come calling? What had they? No?
Speaker 2: No, I got sacked, Brass said, nice. Brass sacked me.
Speaker 2: I'll be implicitly candid with you. I didn't, but I
Speaker 2: had enough. It was mutual by the same taken. And
Speaker 2: then I went to Collingwood for four games, right yeah,
Speaker 2: Tommy Hafey thought, and I had it. You wouldn't believe
Speaker 2: my first game I was wanted, you know, nearly bog
Speaker 2: The first game we kicked four goals against Carlton. But
Speaker 2: then again I copped injuries there and you know that
Speaker 2: went to a natural grave. But then I went to
Speaker 2: Pran the VFA and Sir Ripert Steele, who was the
Speaker 2: chairman of the v r C then and Charles Lux
Speaker 2: who was the Lord Mayor of Pran. I won to
Speaker 2: coach Port Melbourne at the time, but I had already
Speaker 2: appointed the coach. But I went to Pran and there
Speaker 2: were two of the best of the years. We won
Speaker 2: a premiership in our first year and the VFA in
Speaker 2: those days. Believe me, I don't know if you know
Speaker 2: much about the history of the VFA, but the Port
Speaker 2: Melbourne's and the dandelongs and the Center against were tougher
Speaker 2: than any VFL game you play.
Speaker 1: There's some vision of run seventy eight Grand.
Speaker 2: Final against Preston.
Speaker 1: Against Preston and it's just how violent was it?
Speaker 2: That was? That was that was quite meet by comparison
Speaker 2: with some of the Some of the games were just brutal.
Speaker 1: There are some vision, there's some vision on on YouTube.
Speaker 1: I didn't see you and you sort of kept kept
Speaker 1: out of that.
Speaker 2: I always try to get out of the firing line,
Speaker 2: I could, Graham. You know, they're a bit too willing
Speaker 2: for me in that stage in my life.
Speaker 1: What was the emotion like that you'd played an apprenticeship
Speaker 1: for North Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Well, I played in the preper but I really enjoyed
Speaker 2: the time at Paran. You know, whilst it was you know,
Speaker 2: a lesser, a lesser achieve a competition, but still the
Speaker 2: people involved and you know, the it still had the
Speaker 2: same emotions, it still had all the same ingredients, and
Speaker 2: it still had the same meaning and they were terrific days.
Speaker 2: It really reinvigorated me Paran.
Speaker 1: So what happened after a couple of years at Paran,
Speaker 1: that's that's it. Footy careers.
Speaker 2: I went to Sydney. I coached at Newtown in Sydney,
Speaker 2: and I coached New South Wales for a couple of years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when Alan Jeans was Alan Jeans coach in New South Wales,
Speaker 2: he went to Hawthorne. So I was coaching Newtown in
Speaker 2: the local competition and then I coached the Sydney the
Speaker 2: New South state side which played in a Tier two,
Speaker 2: played Canberra Tasmania in the carnival side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you coach didn't play, No, No, I wasn't playing though.
Speaker 1: That was a rough competition that Sidney coch. I played
Speaker 1: a couple of games. I was in the army for
Speaker 1: George Yes and Georgia. Oh my gosh, I haven't been
Speaker 1: hit so many times.
Speaker 2: Well, if you had a reputation they would, I would
Speaker 2: certainly seek you out.
Speaker 1: What were you doing career wise? After after I was
Speaker 1: with the.
Speaker 2: Brewery, I was with the brewery for long time in
Speaker 2: pr and promotions for Toothing Company. And then when I
Speaker 2: came back, I was with a company called Disco Source
Speaker 2: Australia which was a computer consumer company for about a
Speaker 2: decade or twelve years. And then I took over when
Speaker 2: Teddy Witten died, I took over the calling of k
Speaker 2: Rock and I was also on Triple M and you
Speaker 2: back on the circuit doing the footy shows Sunday Footy
Speaker 2: Show on seven and nine over. When I got sacked
Speaker 2: from one, I went to the other. They remy you know,
Speaker 2: it was like the deck chairs are Titanic at one stage. So,
Speaker 2: you know, for about four or five years I was,
Speaker 2: you know through the medium.
Speaker 1: When did the meat industry come calling?
Speaker 2: Well, manifest modesty will preclude me elaborating in detail here,
Speaker 2: but two thousand and five I go for it. I
Speaker 2: will go for it. Two thousand and five we started, Now,
Speaker 2: if you know anything about the rural sector, which are
Speaker 2: the real true champions of our society. Two thousand and
Speaker 2: five were culling our sheet and putting them in the
Speaker 2: ground for a buck ahead. Farmers were walking off their
Speaker 2: properties because they couldn't be able to see them. The
Speaker 2: family dinner table wasn't a very compatible one. And if
Speaker 2: I told you some of the other stories would make
Speaker 2: your head spin. Suicides and you know it. It was
Speaker 2: a shocking time for the Australian farmer. You know he's
Speaker 2: you know he's a lot of the banks are calling
Speaker 2: their markers back in. So it was a dreadful time.
Speaker 2: The droughts, floods all impact that he So I was
Speaker 2: asked to what I promote lamb wasn't the sexiest thing
Speaker 2: in the world to do, but we did. Dave Thomasin
Speaker 2: used to see me work on a show called The Fat.
Speaker 2: If you remember The Fat on the ABC. I used
Speaker 2: to do a mayor was in the early late nineties
Speaker 2: and I used to do a monologue, political monologue on
Speaker 2: nondescripts that permeate our society and give them a bit
Speaker 2: of a whack. And I used to look down the
Speaker 2: gun barrels, right down the down the barrel of the camera.
Speaker 2: And David Thomasin, in his wisdom, he was the marketing
Speaker 2: manager of Australian meat and livestock. Thought, well, this may
Speaker 2: revolutionize commercial the way we present our commercial. You know,
Speaker 2: you don't make sense. I'm Sam Kikovich and just down
Speaker 2: the barrel. So we did. It just took off like
Speaker 2: wild fine, based purely on a reverence, satire and tongue
Speaker 2: in cheek. And that's what made it so appealing. Did
Speaker 2: it surprise you, Well, not really, I thought this. I
Speaker 2: thought the scripts were very good because I had to
Speaker 2: philosophically be who I am. You know, they couldn't deviate off.
Speaker 1: But they recognized in New South Wales and Queensland and
Speaker 1: other places. Yeah, where's no footy?
Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't. Yeah my word, Yeah they did, but
Speaker 2: perhaps not initially they weren't content about who the person was.
Speaker 2: I think they admired the content. But there's time war on.
Speaker 2: You got to understand how this is my twentieth year
Speaker 2: I've done them. Wow, you know, and that's very rare
Speaker 2: in this game.
Speaker 1: And how successful do you think they've been?
Speaker 2: Look, you can measure it well, it's probably the most
Speaker 2: successful campaign in the history of Australian television. Can be
Speaker 2: massive in export dollars and local dollars. And let me
Speaker 2: tell you the farmers. You will want to say a
Speaker 2: bad word about me in the bush? Might its be
Speaker 2: like killing Bambi? I'm telling you, and so yeah, and
Speaker 2: that was it. I meant to say, who would have
Speaker 2: thought from those early beginnings in two thousand and five
Speaker 2: when they culling shape, that would have taken off? And
Speaker 2: I always remember when I signed the second contry, they
Speaker 2: rang me up and said, do you have a manager? Now?
Speaker 2: You like this because you're pretty student? I said, do
Speaker 2: I have a manager? Yeah? But I don't usese managers.
Speaker 2: I'm my own man. I'll decide. I said, Well, we'd
Speaker 2: like to talk about a two or three year deal
Speaker 2: with you. I said, certainly. So I came to a
Speaker 2: restaurant and we sat down. We proceeded to have a chat,
Speaker 2: and then they gave me a coaster, be a coaster
Speaker 2: and a pin and they said, write down what do
Speaker 2: you think you're worth over the next two or three years? Well,
Speaker 2: beads of perspiration over my browse? Ah, What were I
Speaker 2: going to do? Now? God? What can I possibly say?
Speaker 2: Could I put an extra nord there? I went from
Speaker 2: thirty oh jee whiz. I was in a dilemma. I
Speaker 2: really wasn't a dilemma I talk about if I put
Speaker 2: another nord I think, I look at this narissistic press. No,
Speaker 2: I thought I'd be a bit concervative. I really gave
Speaker 2: myself a nice little yeah, Cliff, and I gave it
Speaker 2: to them. And that's how honorable they were. They got
Speaker 2: mine and ripped it up and they said, you better
Speaker 2: have a look at mine.
Speaker 1: It was more, it was more, what did you put
Speaker 1: on yours?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I think it was you're breaking up?
Speaker 1: What was that I said? I said, I said, what
Speaker 1: did you find yours.
Speaker 2: Twenty years ago? It might have been one hundred hundred really,
Speaker 2: and they gave you more. They gave me more. It
Speaker 2: was very, very honorable. But we've had a relationship now
Speaker 2: for twenty years. We do the the Summer campaign and
Speaker 2: it's just been a big hit. It's been an enormous hit.
Speaker 1: What surprises me though, if you look at the complaints
Speaker 1: to the Australian Broadcasting Tribute you feature regularly, But why why.
Speaker 2: Is he but it's any malice? Why because they have
Speaker 2: a crack of the vegetarians, those soaper avoiding doll bludging
Speaker 2: pots making vegans. Why would be be pissed up with that.
Speaker 2: He would take umbrage of that. We're Australian, for Christ's sake,
Speaker 2: And I tell people if ever drive a PJ O
Speaker 2: Rena or a citron, run over them because they bound
Speaker 2: to have a beotful of among beans lentil. Stay away
Speaker 2: from vegans because they're always hungry. So you got my
Speaker 2: drift all right across the board here would take umbrage
Speaker 2: of that. And there you get the you know, you
Speaker 2: get the wokes, and you get the politically correct nondescripts,
Speaker 2: get a sense of humor. He's up smell the roses.
Speaker 1: So they're always dismissed, though, aren't they always dismissed?
Speaker 2: Not only that they get dismissed by What they don't
Speaker 2: realize is the one that dismissed them, give me a
Speaker 2: call and said keep going, just a see to be done.
Speaker 1: No, you can see the complaints that they get, and
Speaker 1: you're not the most complained about it. But you're up there.
Speaker 1: So how does it? How's the day pan out for you?
Speaker 1: These as we speak? You've got your one arm and
Speaker 1: in a sling.
Speaker 2: Well, I've just had a shoulder replaced, but that's that's
Speaker 2: only six weeks old. So I'll survive that. That's your
Speaker 2: second shoulder, the second shoulder, both hips, both knees, and
Speaker 2: a nukele. So I'm almost bionic. And my great fear
Speaker 2: is I'm going to live to well over one hundred twenty.
Speaker 2: I'll have no mates to go out with. I'll be
Speaker 2: a lonely old man and sort of I'll be peramulating
Speaker 2: around the periphery of these wonderful cities and they'll say,
Speaker 2: oh God, I think I remember him it was.
Speaker 1: I don't think you'd be like that. No, I don't
Speaker 1: know the modern game. You must give us soon.
Speaker 2: I'll give you as my synopsis on that. Look, I
Speaker 2: love the game. I love the game. I'm disappointed in
Speaker 2: the manner in which it's played At times. I just
Speaker 2: can't possibly comprehend some of the inept umpiring that takes place.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether they haven't turned it into a
Speaker 2: into a university course of Yeah, ten umpiring may pay
Speaker 2: them half a million dollars each. The players get a
Speaker 2: million dollars, get six God, you get a dozen competent umpires.
Speaker 2: Teach them. You know the rules thoroughly. I know there's
Speaker 2: a lot of gray areas, and it's subject to interpretation,
Speaker 2: but it's a very simple rule you should adhere to
Speaker 2: always look after person making the play. You know, I
Speaker 2: get sick and tired of rewarding parasites. And it's almost
Speaker 2: endemic throughout our society. You look at our corporate world.
Speaker 2: You know, failed CEOs walking away with the salacious wage paget.
Speaker 2: You know, when's that ever come across We were talking
Speaker 2: about meritocracy. I don't give a stuff. You employ fifty
Speaker 2: eight women in the board. It's the best people for
Speaker 2: the job. But don't tell me all there's been about
Speaker 2: quota systems. When's that coming to vague? Why don't we
Speaker 2: raise the bar? You know, everyone gets a prize. No,
Speaker 2: you don't get a prize. One of the reason we've
Speaker 2: got these social problems that are prevalent, now, let me
Speaker 2: assure you, is because they're very fact that their formative stage,
Speaker 2: they're all given a prize, and so when they're exposed
Speaker 2: to the riggers of the real world and when they
Speaker 2: get rejection and come across the roadblock, Oh, how had
Speaker 2: that happen? Why has that happened? No, I'm going to ah,
Speaker 2: don't worry, son, there's a one eight hundred number you
Speaker 2: can ring or a one three hundred or soft landing,
Speaker 2: and in the day that was never the case. Not
Speaker 2: that I'm saying that was right. I'm not an old dinosaur.
Speaker 2: I'm a pretty contemporary, switched on bloke. But there are
Speaker 2: there are certain parameters and dynamics we need to adhere to.
Speaker 2: And it's not the Australian Why I tell people we'll
Speaker 2: as sixty thousand that the Gallipoli, the Western Front and
Speaker 2: the Somme for us to enjoy the privilege is a
Speaker 2: wonderful democracy. Now, there were certain guidelines and you know,
Speaker 2: these people played the eldimate sacrifice, made the ultimate sacrifice
Speaker 2: for us to enjoy that. And let me tell you,
Speaker 2: they turn over in their graves as they see some
Speaker 2: of the things that we're the way, we're abusing and
Speaker 2: prostituting them. It's great to catch up, Sam, it really is.
Speaker 2: We've come to the end. I know we can go
Speaker 2: a bit longer. It's idiot, that's it. I flew all
Speaker 2: away for that. I didn't even talk about myself.
Speaker 1: I think you did. Sam Keikovich, was my guess. Mikes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us.