WEBVTT - Why the Murdoch succession drama isn’t over

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>Rupert Murdoch's attempts to secure his son Lachlan's control of

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<v Speaker 1>the family empire have hit a major legal roadblock. Escathing

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<v Speaker 1>ruling from a Nevada commissioner against the patriarch's attempts to

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<v Speaker 1>reshape his family trust has thrown his succession plan for

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<v Speaker 1>his eldest son into disarray. The ruling and a seemingly

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<v Speaker 1>divided family have cast a doubt over the future of

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<v Speaker 1>the Murdoch media empire. With the implication of the Nevada

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<v Speaker 1>Court's decision yet the play out Today. Director of the

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<v Speaker 1>Center for Advancing Journalism at the University of Melbourne, Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>Dodd on the ruling, the fallout, and the next chapter

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<v Speaker 1>in the Murdoch trust saga. It's Friday, December thirty eight, Andrew,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for joining us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Daniel.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously we all know that the drama series Succession was

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<v Speaker 1>inspired by the Murdoch family, but I've heard that this

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<v Speaker 1>saga of the Murdoch family's trust was itself actually inspired

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<v Speaker 1>by an episode of Succession. Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, apparently that's what's been revealed by the new York Times.

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<v Speaker 2>They reckon that Elizabeth saw the episode where Logan Roy

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<v Speaker 2>dies that prompted her to get in touch with her lawyer,

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<v Speaker 2>Mark Devereaux, and Mark Devereaux wrote what's called the Succession Memo,

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<v Speaker 2>which triggered all.

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<v Speaker 1>Of this episode. Then again, according to these filings and details,

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<v Speaker 1>were only learning because of the court clash, led.

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<v Speaker 2>One of Murdoch's children, the daughter Elizabeth, to write.

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<v Speaker 1>A succession memo to help avoid a real life repeat

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<v Speaker 1>of that fictional and imagined situation.

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<v Speaker 2>So that then led to Lachlan seeking to revoke the

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<v Speaker 2>Eravoke Trust.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me about the trust itself, when it

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<v Speaker 1>was established and what it was initially set out to do?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was initiated by Rupert's second wife, and she

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<v Speaker 2>did it to protect her kids. Apparently she agreed to

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<v Speaker 2>take a smaller share as a settlement if it was

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<v Speaker 2>guaranteed that the children, meaning her children but also Prudence

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<v Speaker 2>from the first marriage, would all be protected equally under

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<v Speaker 2>the terms of the will. And what then subsequently happened

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<v Speaker 2>to the trust was that as it was being developed,

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<v Speaker 2>Wendy Deng's children came along. They were given an equal

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<v Speaker 2>share of the assets of the company, but were not

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<v Speaker 2>given voting rights, So the trust has locked that in

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<v Speaker 2>and it's done in such a way irrevocably, so that

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<v Speaker 2>it can only be changed if all of the beneficiaries

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<v Speaker 2>agree to the change, and the changes are for the

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<v Speaker 2>benefit of all the beneficiaries. So that's what's been in question.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's become more of a question as the golf

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<v Speaker 1>and perspective between the four siblings has seemed to have

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<v Speaker 1>become wider. Can you give us a brief overview of

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<v Speaker 1>Lachlan's position compared to Prudence, Elizabeth and James's.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Sure, So there's been a lot of inning and

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<v Speaker 2>outing from the company. So Lachlan has come and gone,

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<v Speaker 2>James has been in the company and left, Elizabeth went

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<v Speaker 2>her own way, formed her own business and created a

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<v Speaker 2>quietness to a successful media company, and Prudence has been

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat aloof. But they've all had an association with the

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<v Speaker 2>company over their lifetimes, and what we now know about

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<v Speaker 2>them is that Lachlan seems to be the favored son

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<v Speaker 2>because his politics are more aligned with Rudbert's, and James,

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<v Speaker 2>although initially showing that he was quite right wing, seems

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<v Speaker 2>to have become less so perhaps due to the marriage

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<v Speaker 2>to his partner, who is a climate activist, and he

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<v Speaker 2>has moved away from the company and expressed his dismay

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<v Speaker 2>at its reportage of bushfires in Australia and other climate

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<v Speaker 2>related matters. He endorsed Karmela Harrison the last election. He's

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<v Speaker 2>spoken out openly against Fox's coverage of the big Lion,

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, and we know from that that he's eager

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<v Speaker 2>to see some change in the company. And that's why

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<v Speaker 2>he's known internally as the troublesome beneficiary, because he's got

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<v Speaker 2>those views. So the question really is does he have

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<v Speaker 2>the support of Elizabeth and Prudence and can the three

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<v Speaker 2>of them going up against Lachlan if it comes to that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so this attempt to change the trust is to

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<v Speaker 1>really give Rupert control of his businesses from beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>grave through his eldest son Lachlan.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's one way of reading it, and he's quite explicit.

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<v Speaker 2>He says that the company really only survives financially if

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<v Speaker 2>it retains its right wing politics, and that's because it

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<v Speaker 2>thinks it's found that corner of the market, and that

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<v Speaker 2>corner of the market is lucrative for Fox for example,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's what keeps the company afloat, And there's a

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<v Speaker 2>certain amount of truth to that. I mean, Fox is

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<v Speaker 2>by far the most profitable part of the empire. It

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<v Speaker 2>made one point five billion US dollars last financial year alone,

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<v Speaker 2>and it is propping up a lot of the loss

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<v Speaker 2>making newspapers. So you can see the argument. But the

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<v Speaker 2>counter argument to that is, well, they haven't tried another approach,

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<v Speaker 2>and who's to say they can't bring that audience with

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<v Speaker 2>them as they move a little close to the center

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<v Speaker 2>and produced journalism that's a little less damaging for society

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<v Speaker 2>in general.

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<v Speaker 1>So the fight day of the trust went to a

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<v Speaker 1>closed court in Nevada and the court ruled against the

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<v Speaker 1>attempt to change the trust. So what did the judge

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<v Speaker 1>say when he made the ruling.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he was scathing. Edmund Gorman, who is the trust commissioner,

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<v Speaker 2>said that what Lachlan and Rupert had put together was

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<v Speaker 2>a carefully crafted charade done in bad faith. They criticized

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<v Speaker 2>the lawyer who represented those members of the family as

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<v Speaker 2>acting somewhat dishonestly. So he's left no doubt as to

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<v Speaker 2>his position on this. He says that it doesn't benefit

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<v Speaker 2>effectively all of the members of the trust and therefore

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<v Speaker 2>can't change under the current rules. The trouble is, though,

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<v Speaker 2>that it is just a recommendation and it now needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be ratified by a district court judge and then

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<v Speaker 2>could be subject to litigation beyond that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So there's a potential that Lachlan and Rupert could

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<v Speaker 1>appeal eventually.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well that said, they will and they've got too

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<v Speaker 2>much at stake. Of course they'll appeal this. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think the important thing is that the ruling, the initial

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<v Speaker 2>ruling by Gorman, is so strong that it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>make what look like a weak case before even weaker.

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<v Speaker 2>It would be a rogue district judge, I would think,

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<v Speaker 2>who would disavow this ruling by its own commissioner. So

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to me that they're on even more shaky

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<v Speaker 2>ground than they were beforehand.

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<v Speaker 1>Rupert hasn't been afraid to make radical business decisions to

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<v Speaker 1>change the future of his companies before. Apart from appealing

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<v Speaker 1>this decision, is there anything else that Rupert could do

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<v Speaker 1>to sway the balance in Lachlan's favor?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, he can do all sorts of things while

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<v Speaker 2>he's alive. Of course, he can try and engineer some

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<v Speaker 2>sort of settlement within the family that changes this. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure there are other legal avenues open to him that

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<v Speaker 2>he can explore to do that. But really now I

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<v Speaker 2>think the question is can the family maintain some cohesion

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<v Speaker 2>through this. I mean, this has been a very bruising

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<v Speaker 2>battle for them. Elizabeth and prou are saying now that

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<v Speaker 2>the emphasis should be on trying to restore or repair

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<v Speaker 2>family relations, and I think it'll come down to whether

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<v Speaker 2>or not, in fact the three siblings have been scheming

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<v Speaker 2>against Lachlan, and whether Lachlan can convince them that there's

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<v Speaker 2>another path. And this is a course where it all

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<v Speaker 2>begins to look very much like succession.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, the fallout, and what it means for

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<v Speaker 1>the Murdock Empire. So Andrew Rupert Murdock's attempt to challenge

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<v Speaker 1>his family trust was ruled against him resoundingly. So this

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<v Speaker 1>will now go to the district court, as you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>and as you also mentioned, it doesn't seem to have

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<v Speaker 1>a very strong case. So what are the implications of

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<v Speaker 1>this decision now for the business empire?

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<v Speaker 2>So if we default to the position that this is

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<v Speaker 2>lost and we can, then I think start exploring what

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<v Speaker 2>news Corp could look like after Rupert's death, and let's

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<v Speaker 2>imagine the four of them get together and the three

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<v Speaker 2>siblings to throne Lachlan. Then there are all bets off,

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<v Speaker 2>so News Court becomes a very different entity. But then

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<v Speaker 2>it's got a weigh up all sorts of things. It

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<v Speaker 2>has to weigh up what the market does in response

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<v Speaker 2>to that, and they will be no doubt spooking the

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<v Speaker 2>market if they do that. So I imagine they've got a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a game plan developing and if not, will

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<v Speaker 2>soon be developing it where they try and bring their audiences,

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<v Speaker 2>their shareholders, and their advertisers and subscribers with them through

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<v Speaker 2>gradual change. That I think is effectively the only way

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<v Speaker 2>they can retain the company with the market capitalization that

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<v Speaker 2>it currently has, and in such a way as to

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<v Speaker 2>gradually bring about change needs to be very carefully and

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<v Speaker 2>very strategically.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you take stock of Rupert Murdocks and media

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<v Speaker 1>around pie, how has it been performing overall in recent

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<v Speaker 1>years from a business perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it is in fact two companies. So Fox is

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<v Speaker 2>separate from News Corp. And Fox is a whole lot

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<v Speaker 2>of media assets, not just Fox itself but other sports

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<v Speaker 2>channels and other allied media businesses. And then there's news Corp,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the more traditional aspects of the company. Mostly

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<v Speaker 2>it's newspapers around the world, and generally can be said

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<v Speaker 2>that newspapers lose money. Fox makes money. As well as that.

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<v Speaker 2>There are all sorts of other allied businesses in sports,

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<v Speaker 2>subscription and book publishing. For example, HarperCollins is a news

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<v Speaker 2>Corp company. Overall, the company makes an enormous amount of money,

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<v Speaker 2>but it can do so knowing that it's propping up

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<v Speaker 2>businesses that aren't making money. So when people think about

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<v Speaker 2>Post Rupert and news Corp, they're often thinking about what

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<v Speaker 2>are the futures of the loss making aspects of the business,

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<v Speaker 2>and by that they mean newspapers. The thing about Rupert,

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<v Speaker 2>for all his faults, is that he is a fan

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<v Speaker 2>of newspapers and he's kept many many people in work

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<v Speaker 2>because he insists on keeping them running.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so with that in mind, what would this decision,

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<v Speaker 1>if it holds, mean for his Australian publications and other

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<v Speaker 1>business interests.

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<v Speaker 2>No idea. You may as well look at the entrails

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<v Speaker 2>of a goat to work that out. Daniel, nobody knows

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<v Speaker 2>that and I wonder whether in News Corp they even

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<v Speaker 2>know that themselves, particularly as this entire ruling in the

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<v Speaker 2>has thrown everything up in the air again. So I

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't even begin to speculate it about that. If they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to bring in an accountant slide rule to it,

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<v Speaker 2>then they'd have to be looking very seriously quite a

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<v Speaker 2>few publications in Australia that aren't making a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a potential that there's a few chapters left

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<v Speaker 1>in the Murdoch family drama. Just yet. When will the

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<v Speaker 1>final season of that drama unfold?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, of course I wish we're but a long and

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<v Speaker 2>happy life, and if he's anything like his mum, there

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<v Speaker 2>a few more years yet in that life. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's when the next chapter really starts, unless we

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<v Speaker 2>see some sort of overt kind of maneuvering going on

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<v Speaker 2>while he's still able to control things. I mean, he

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<v Speaker 2>has half the voting stock in the trust now and

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<v Speaker 2>he and Lachlan together control it, so they will no

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<v Speaker 2>doubt be looking at other ways to influence change, and

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<v Speaker 2>they could do things like hive off parts of the company.

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<v Speaker 2>They could divest it and put it in other sort

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<v Speaker 2>of places, and they still have then to do that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I suspect now they're going to try and work

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<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes to come up with some other approach.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally, Andrew, will the death of Rupert Murdoch also

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<v Speaker 1>mark the end of Lachlan at News Corp.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's certainly the thesis that Paddy Manning has put

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<v Speaker 2>out in his book, and he's not alone in that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's come from others as well. But that of course

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<v Speaker 2>does rely on the other three ganging up on their brother.

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<v Speaker 2>So in that sense, yes, it could happen. And whatever happens, though,

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<v Speaker 2>there will be a reduction in his power, a massive

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<v Speaker 2>reduction in that power. But you know, for me, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's when the next really interesting chapter of this

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<v Speaker 2>company begins, and that is what it looks like post

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<v Speaker 2>Rupert and whether or not we do see a gradual

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<v Speaker 2>shift towards a company that is more socially responsible, produces

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<v Speaker 2>more balanced journalism and frankly does less harm in the

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<v Speaker 2>world than a currently.

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<v Speaker 1>Danes Andrew, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Daniel, And if.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to learn more about the life and legacy

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<v Speaker 1>of Rupert Murdoch, media's most powerful man, you can listen

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<v Speaker 1>to Rupert the Last Mogul, a special series from Schwartz Media.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Search for it wherever you get your podcasts. Also in

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<v Speaker 1>the news today, Australia's unemployment rate has fallen to three

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<v Speaker 1>point nine percent, down from four point one percent in October.

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<v Speaker 1>The latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics have

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<v Speaker 1>been attributed to a growth in population as employment kept

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<v Speaker 1>pace with population growth and platforms including Facebook, Google and

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok could be forced to fund Australian journalism under a

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<v Speaker 1>federal government plan to impose a new tax on the

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<v Speaker 1>tech companies. The proposed tax would be applied to the

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<v Speaker 1>platform's Australian revenue, but could be reduced to zero if

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<v Speaker 1>they entered into pay agreements with news outlets. Seven Am

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<v Speaker 1>is a daily show from Schwartzmabia and The Saturday Paper.

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<v Speaker 1>It's made by Addigas Basto, Shane Anderson, Chris Stangate, Eric Jensen,

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<v Speaker 1>Ruby Jones, Sarah mcviee, Travis Evans, Zolten Vecho and myself

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel James. Seven Am will be back on Monday. See

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<v Speaker 1>you then.