WEBVTT - How to find a financial advisor 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.080 Hello, and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:17.200 James Kirkby, the Wealth editor at the Australian. Welcome aboard everybody. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.319 Someone I've wanted to have on the show for some 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:25.119 time is Nathan Fradley. He's a leading financial advisor. He's 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:30.240 unusual to the degree that he is a entirely independent 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.440 operator and as such is both good advisor and a 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:39.120 voice for the financial advice sector. And it's an ideal 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.760 week to have him on because you probably know there's 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:47.159 been some alleged changes to Super put through Parliament, some 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.040 simplification of financial advice bureaucracy if you like, which is 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.080 supposed to cost us all less in the end, which 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.920 would be good if it comes to pass. Importantly, big 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.320 change with Super. You know, the big super funds wanted 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.120 to expand their advice offering and Big Super gets what 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.839 it wants normally, and they got what it wanted again 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.720 this week because they're now allowed to expand advice. But 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.800 not only that, they're allowed to charge for advice in 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.200 the manner that they charge for most things, that is 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:19.039 in a pooled fashion. So if you've got five million 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.440 in Super or you've got fifty dollars in super you're 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.000 probably going to pay the same fee with your big 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.080 super fund that's got all sorts of issues. But it 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:34.120 look maybe it will widen financial advice for mass market 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.200 and that would be useful if it's good advice, If 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.160 it's advice that pays off for the people who use it. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.560 Will see And I want to talk to Nathan about 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.480 a whole bunch of things which are on the table 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:51.200 which would help you. I hope find advice, find the 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.080 best advice and the optimum way of engaging if you like, 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.960 with financial advice, because every single listener on this show, 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.480 I would say needs good advice, including myself. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.400 How are you, Nathan, I'm good, James, thanks for having me. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.120 Now, Nathan Fradley, is you operate under the corporate empire 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.840 of Nathan Fradley advice? That's unusual, isn't it just to 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.400 be there by yourself, pay all your own fees, your 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.120 own license fee, I expect, et cetera. That must be 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.400 quite difficult. There's very few tell me how many what 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.680 percentage do you reckon? Of all financial advisors in Australia, 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.320 fifteen thousand of them are independent in the sense that 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.160 people might understand what that word means. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.160 So I think that the current number is about two hundred. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.480 So and that's sort of meeting the definition which is 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.119 labeled in the Corporations Act. And to be independent, you're 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.919 receiving no commissions of any sort, which there's only insurance 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.880 commissions now all investment commissions have been banned. But also 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.520 no volume based or any benefits that could influence your advice, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.520 which is some that's sort of the questionable bit sometimes. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.400 Yeah, I mean someone came on to me recently, torrent 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.600 of strongly held views, let's put it that way about 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.640 our own lists, the top advisor's list, and was mentioning that, okay, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.399 there's no commission, but there's all these investment platforms now 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.040 they're really big and they dominate the space, and that 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:20.640 the advisors get fees from these platforms, and so they 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.600 heard people into those platforms. Is that fair? 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:30.160 No, there is no fees paid to the advisor or 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.880 the convice company from a platform provider. What you might 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.560 find is that they've been banned. What you might find 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.000 is that they will have discounted cards, so rate cards, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.280 so if your clients will pay less to be on there, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:43.840 which can be a sticking point because if I leave. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.440 This advisor, my account becomes more expensive. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.720 So that's all that they run their fee through the 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.120 account itself. But that fee is a normal it's money 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.320 out of an account paid to them. There's no behind 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.080 the scenes fees with platforms anymore. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.280 Okay, So it's about two hundred independent advice was out 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:07.560 of fifteen thousand. Those two hundred they cost do they 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.520 cost more? Necessarily? 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:10.920 This is a tricky part. 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.480 So as much as I am an independent advisor myself, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.000 don't they don't think it makes me better than anyone else. 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.240 And I think it depends on who you serve and 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.160 what advice you provide. And so if you're providing a 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.560 lot of risk or insurance advice, it's really hard to 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.040 make that work on a fee basis. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:27.320 I've tried in the past. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.560 They get a discount on their insurance because you write 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:32.919 the commission out and then three years later they come 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.120 back and need to just tweak a bit of a 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.560 policy and you've got to charge your fee. It's like, oh, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.760 I just realize I have to pay because they're not used. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.280 It's not something you're used to paying for, so it 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.520 would be like getting a mortgage broker, charging a fee 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.720 there and then turning and having to pay another fee 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:46.240 in two years. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:47.360 It's just not normal. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.760 So I think that people who run businesses who have 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.760 got a lot of clients that built up every years 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.240 with insurance products, it's very hard to become independent because 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:57.839 you have to get rid of all of that revenue, 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.560 which is quite difficult. So I think it does play 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:02.880 to the markets that you exist in and who you 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:03.920 serve in your business. 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.320 Okay, so the big news this week obviously is about 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:14.240 the big super funds being given wider powers legislations in 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.640 Parliament by Stephen Jones, the Minister to offer financial advice. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.560 Interesting this is happening, of course, just as Cebus the 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.840 super fund is being what can we say, the embattled 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:33.400 superfund which has regulatory investigations going on in parallel. I 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.000 can name three three different investigations going on at the 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.960 same time at Cebus over all sorts of issues. The 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.200 most spectacular I suppose being ACIC taking them to court 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.600 for delaying payments on death benefits and that sort of thing. 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.320 But we won't tire them all with the same brush. 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.000 The different big super funds, do you think for our 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:58.360 listeners who don't want to face five thousand dollars a year, well, 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.080 will it be a good thing and what sort of 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.680 caveat would you add to that. 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.520 I'm probably not the most sensational advice when it comes 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:07.880 to the stuff. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.880 I like to be pretty moderate. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.480 What I don't like is the broad base pricing that 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.680 everyone pays for the advice to access by few. I've 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.279 never been advocate for that. They get the values what's 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.080 been given, and it also means, you know, those who 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.320 don't use the services, who generally won't need to use 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.000 the services we're paying for those that don't lack a 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.000 lot of insurances and things like that. But what I 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.720 would say is, I think there's something I remember reading 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.640 something recently. It's about half of all over sixty five 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.640 year old super fund holders aren't in pension phase. So 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.920 that's pension phase being the tax free part. There's an 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.040 enormous amount of people who maybe just needed a conversation 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.560 that could be saving huge amounts in tax And by 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.040 way of reference, I think it's about ten or twelve 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.720 percent for cmsfs. People have a bit more engaged, So 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.479 I think there's a lot of room here where people 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:58.440 just need small transactional benefits that can be beneficial. I 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.360 think where we're going to go wrong with this is 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.880 around the messaging and around what's done around it, and 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:04.880 around some of the controls. So if you go to 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.080 McDonald's you expect a big back, you're not going to 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.400 get a whopp up. And that should be made very 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.160 evident if you're getting advice from your superfund that they're 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.440 only going to give you advice on what they have. 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:18.960 And for the most part that's fine. But there is 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:20.920 things like these retirement income products that will come to 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.480 market very soon which can't be broken very easily once 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.760 set up, and that could be areas where I see problems. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.360 I mean, surely two things here. Surely the funds could 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.280 simply send a letter to someone when they get to 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.160 the age and say, hey, by the way, you should 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.280 know at this stage, you know a tax fity future 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.080 is ahead of you because you've just passed preservation edge. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.320 They don't even do that. No, they do, Actually they do, 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.680 they do that happens nobody reads them. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:49.960 So yeah, I mean this is I remember chatting to 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:51.720 someone at one of the big super funds back in 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.360 just before twenty twenty and something like ninety two percent 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.560 of money left the fund when someone turned sixty five, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:58.480 so they had a big retention issue. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.360 It was a hospitality sort of sided group. 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.840 The bounces weren't enormous. People either pulled it out and 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.080 paid off their mortgage or they just didn't understand their super. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.320 They didn't understand what was there, and they didn't have 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.480 a great advice component to keep people in neither. So 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.880 I think they've got a huge challenge on that engaging 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:13.720 people in their super. 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:14.640 I think people are a lot. 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.120 More disengaged than we think, and they do actually do 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.000 some of this. I think this is just an added 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.640 benefit because like, hey, do you know you could do this? 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.560 But it costs money? Is friction and if it's like 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.400 it won't cost anything, might encourage people to take advantage. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:27.480 Of this a bit more. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.000 And the other thing, of course, is if I go 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.240 to you and you're independent, I'm assuming you've got to 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.320 tell you you or anyone like you, the two hundred 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.400 like you that and let's add more than that, because 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:42.480 there would be advisers. We'd like to think you have 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.760 people's best interests in mind and think in a holistic way. 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.040 But if I go into a super fund and I see, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.320 you know, I'd like to put most of my money 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.240 in gold. Or I'd like to put a third of 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.319 my money in gold and a third in cash, and 0:08:55.440 --> 0:09:00.720 a third and something speculative. There's no way that fund 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.559 is going to say yes to that, I expect. Or 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.719 I'd like to take half my money out and put 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.480 it into an investment property, which I've got my eye on, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.000 and I'm an expert property investor and I really know 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.120 how to do it. I'm going to prejudge them here, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.880 but I fall off my chair of a big super 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.199 fund is going to suggest anything other than stay with 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:21.720 the fund? 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.839 Yes, So I mean, firstly, I hope they don't suggest 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.160 anything other than stay with the fund, because that's outside 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.040 of the scope of their work and licensing. I would 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.120 like it to be really obvious that we can only 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.719 do this. And I think if that's the case and 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.319 people are fully aware of that, which is in different levels, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.319 I think that's great. I think then there should be 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.439 a channel which says, okay, you need a greater level 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.520 of service. A lot of the funds will have internal 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.839 advice capability, but they should also recognize around limitations and 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.840 refer out as well, and I think that's probably an 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.760 area we're going to see some challenging who to refer to. 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:57.920 In some sense, some of the funds do have some 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.719 good processes in place on that already, but ultimately I 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.439 think that's going to be the biggest challenge in this 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.920 is people who needed more who didn't get what they 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.320 actually needed, which is often the case when people seek 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.240 advice now, and it's something we see in some of 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.000 the AFCA determinations and things, is people go in for 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.720 one thing and that person the advisor in front of them, 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.480 sets them up in a way that they understand or 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.679 and it's something they're familiar with, but it may not 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.320 have been something that could have been available to them 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.120 outside of that, depending on the school of the advisor. 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.800 But I will say that that's a minority advisor these days. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.679 It's vastly improved over the last year. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.679 And what about the obvious issue of competence or credibility 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.719 or qualification. I'm tempted to the awful, the awful, but 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.240 the awful old joke, but it's got something in it 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.280 which says, you know, financial product marketing is people who 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.440 don't know what they're buying dealing with people who don't 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.920 know what they're selling. Now, you know, if you think 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.920 about a big super fund and a call center, won't 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:56.960 that be a danger that these people and they can't 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.640 even give them a name yet, who work in the funds, 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.760 we'll just know this tiny area this script. Basically the 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.960 person they're dealing with knows even less. Can we even 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:08.840 call it advice? 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.439 I mean, that's one step away from some automated and 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.000 robo based advice that already exists. And some of the 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.360 retail funds have rolled this out. One of the large 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:18.920 retail funds rolled it out of eighty eight dollars a 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.000 year recently. So I think there's a couple of parts 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.440 of this. I think if you can get the scoping 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.880 right who you're dealing with, is there anything else can 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.640 we actually give advice and follow the rules that are 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.320 currently in place, then I don't think that's necessarily going 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:32.679 to be an issue. I also think this is a 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.320 great opportunity to backfill. You know, we've got fifteen thousand 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.800 advisors that's halfed in the last five years. We cannot 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.920 at the current position. We won't have advisors in fifteen 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.200 twenty years. They won't exist anymore, and so we need 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.599 to find a way to get people experience. And the 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.319 current pathway in is you go for administrative assistant to 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.640 all of a sudden full fledged advisor. And there's a 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:54.720 big gap in that too. There's a lot of challenges 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:55.719 that come around that as well. 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.280 Very good point, very good point. I know they're so 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.679 desperate they are recruiting of receives for financial advisors. I 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.440 know that the association is actively underground in India, for instance, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.640 trying to get people to become financial in Australia financial 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.120 advisers in Australia, and as you see, there was thirty thousand, 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.079 then there was fifteen thousand, and the issue there's no 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:13.920 one coming through. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.000 And the ones that are a lot of them leave. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:18.679 So they get into the job and they go, this 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.920 is not what I want to do. You know, it 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.120 took me so long to get here, and yeah, now 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:24.800 what do I do next? 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.240 Okay, so then maybe come training camps, I think in 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:30.599 a good way, Yeah, I think so. 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.000 I think obviously this comes with any of the issues 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.000 that we see with large institutions trying to do anything 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.559 at scale. You're going to you have to have a 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.240 lot of controls in place. No different to the bank's 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.960 doing exactly the same thing prior. Hopefully we've learned from 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.080 our previous mistakes. But it's a different area of large 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.480 business doing something at scale. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:49.600 This could go really well, it could go really poorly. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:50.599 I just hope we keep an eye on it. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:56.280 Okay, very balanced view. All right, we'll take a short 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:11.319 break back in a moment. Hello, and welcome back to 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.800 the money Puzzle. I'm James Kirby, and I'm talking to 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:20.040 Nathan Fradley, Financial advisor, independent financial advisor. Okay, Nathan, in 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:26.240 terms of how someone optimizes their dealings with an advisor, 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.240 if they can find one, a b if they can 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.160 find a good one, see if they can get in 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.920 the door on the basis that there's a shortage, chrolic 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.280 shortage really and we haven't seen anything like this in 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.080 any other areas. It's not like the number of lawyers 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.400 have been cut in half, or dentists or anything else. 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.960 How does someone optimize their meeting with an advisor? 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.719 I think the first thing I'd say this We just 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.120 had our cou big conference and I said I think 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.640 I said this one hundred times chatting to people financially 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.160 that you can find a financial advisor that can solve 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:57.839 your problems, but you should also find one. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:58.760 That believes what you believe. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.240 I think if you can have chat with them over 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.680 the phone or in a zoom and get a really 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.040 good feel about who they are, you know, google them, 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.559 see what your podcasts would have being on, articles have 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.600 been quoted in whatever that might be social media they 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.120 put out there. You can self select a lot better 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.199 because even though there's only fifteen thousand of us, the 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.720 divergence in the way we operate as enymous. So if 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.000 you want someone just to build a portfolio complex with 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.640 shares and golden all sorts of fun stuff, it's going 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.360 to be vastly different than if you come to see me, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.960 for example, where I do a lot more lifestyle based, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.720 strategic based, and I suppose hard moments of allse age 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:32.440 care that kind of thing. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:33.960 So there's a real. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.040 Diversity in who you're dealing with, and you've got to 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:37.960 like them and ideally you're going to work with them 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.560 for a very long time, so you better get along. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.600 And so I think you know, having that alignment, particularly 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.360 if you're a couple trying to find an advisor that 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.880 can be also a balance there and then being prepared 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.800 them all you can give them. The more time you 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:50.760 spend with them on valuable things, less time you spend 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.920 with them running through your balance sheet, there's better bang 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.080 for bucket that and I'm sure they'll appreciate that. A 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:56.720 client that is easy to work with as a client 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.120 you work with more so those two things if you're 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.240 a bit more organized, but also you found someone that 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:02.760 is your kind of person. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.400 I think they're really the best ways to find an advisor. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.400 Well, you've got a page time you check them out, 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:09.040 don't you really? 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.000 It depends the Most advisors will offer some form of 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.520 initial contact free charge. I do a fifteen minute call, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.760 which you know, if anyone can figured out yet always 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.520 goes to half an hour because I'd like to talk. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.640 But you know, generally you have that as a bit 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.000 of a vetting. They want to vet, you want to 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:24.800 vet them. I think that's really important. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.400 Do you think it's important to meet the person in person? 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.400 If that's important to you, So. 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.880 Nathan, what a percentage would you think of your client 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:39.200 base likes actually insists on meeting you person to person. 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.160 I don't think they necessarily insist. I think it's a 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.680 lot lower than you'd think. I like to meet them 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.640 at least once. I think that's really important. If I 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.240 could meet everyone multiple times, I would. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.440 Yeah, but once at least just once to make the connection, 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.040 is it, or to just too you can. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:55.760 Get tow withstand them. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.280 Yeah, you can understand someone much better with physical presence. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:00.440 It's just a factor. 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.360 There's a disconnection that comes with you know, being on 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.520 a camera across from someone, and so I think that's important. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.080 There's also the aspect of, you know, we've got responsibilities 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:10.720 around our doing our clients. 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.760 So that's a big part of it too. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:14.040 Are they who they say they are? 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.920 Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, so that's a bit part of 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.120 it as well. But I just I would prefer, you 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:21.640 know that to be with all clients. 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.760 You know. But because this is that we operate on 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.760 a national level, work with people over the country, sometimes 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.560 it's not realistic as well. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.400 Is it delineated in religion to demographics and age? 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.440 Yeah, I speaking to other advisors to work with a 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.400 lot younger clients than I do, I'd say there's a 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.160 lot more zoom and that's not just because they're used 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:39.920 to the technology. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.280 It also is lifestyle. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:42.960 You know, they've got an hour, well the kids are 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:44.600 putting the kids down before they're going to need to 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.640 do this, and they're trying to get multiple professionals in 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:48.560 the same room at the same time. 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:49.360 It's very difficult. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.560 Demographic guy tends to work with is a little bit easier, 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.640 and they also prefer it when you suggest and look, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.840 I really want to meet in person. Oh absolutely please, 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:58.640 we want to do that. So yeah, I think it's 0:16:58.640 --> 0:16:59.680 definitely demographic based. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:01.960 Okay, I want to ask you one other thing before 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.360 we go to the break, which is entirely different subject matter, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:07.840 but I know it's something that we said we talk 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:13.080 about and you are interested in ESG investing environmental, social 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:19.280 and governance issues, which were so dominant for a couple 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.720 of years there by that when I say they're dominant, 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.719 I mean the concept was dominant of ESG, and slowly 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.040 but surely it's sort of percolated through the investment system 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.560 to the advisor base where clients were saying, we want 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:37.600 to invest in an ESG fashion where we're happy with 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:42.080 those issues environmental, social and governance issue of the investments 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.720 we make. Now it seems to me just as differential 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.280 advisor regime had grappled to it at all and had 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:53.919 a sense of it. There's a blowback on ESG, mostly 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.840 coming out of the US, but also coming out of 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.880 places that ESG started, like the EU, on the basis 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.800 that had lacked definition, on the basis that it was abused, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.879 and some of it was an entire charade. We had greenwashing, 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.760 if you know what I mean. So we're are advisors 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.080 and their clients on that whole ESG issue. Now. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.399 I think there's multiple parts that form this. It's a 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.160 complex answer. One of them is that I think you're 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.560 seeing a decrease in demand from you know, if you're 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.120 breaking people into the pragmatists versus the believers versus people 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:25.760 that aren't going to do it at all, the believers 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.840 are still going to be really invested in this. I 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.360 think that the pragmatists are looking at their budgets. They're 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.120 looking at their interest rates and their mortgages and their 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.399 were payments, and they're going, I need to take care 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.680 of myself before I think outside of myself. And so 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.520 we really saw that as rates ramped up, that's starting 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.040 to change. We're seeing a shift in demand again back 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.680 and whether that's a broader political concern as well, but 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.200 that's definitely shifting. But then the other side, we had 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.840 every fund and their dog was running some form of 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.520 ESGRI strategy because it was marketable a lot of funds. 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.679 You can understand ESG itself is just. 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:57.399 A risk metric. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.879