Speaker 1: I get atm. Welcome to another installing the AR project.
Speaker 1: My long, long, long, not lost, but long time friend
Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio of the self help Antidote and a million
Speaker 1: other amazing things that he has done and is doing
Speaker 1: over the years, joins me back on the U Project
Speaker 1: for the first time in a long time.
Speaker 2: Hi buddy, Hey, it's been a while. How are you doing.
Speaker 2: You're good? Emily? Okay? Are you eating enough?
Speaker 1: Have you been talking with my mum's that's hilarious. It's
Speaker 1: actually as I'm recording this at seven point thirty three
Speaker 1: on a Sunday, and after this, not straight after, but
Speaker 1: after this, I'm heading up to see the dolls. The
Speaker 1: dolls up in the thriving metropolis of La tre Valley.
Speaker 1: Four hours of driving for three hours of just you know,
Speaker 1: Mary's food. So I am. I am heading up there.
Speaker 2: Are you good?
Speaker 1: We haven't spoken for a long time. Are you has
Speaker 1: your body? Are you in the gym? Are you training?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Why like looking at me? Is this
Speaker 2: like calls for concern? Is this something you.
Speaker 1: Want to No? No, no, but you've always got a
Speaker 1: few issues like me. I've fucked up my road tight
Speaker 1: acuff left for a tighter cuff badly, so I'm working
Speaker 1: around that. How's your body holding up?
Speaker 2: It's it's crickety. It's like I have to like wake
Speaker 2: up in the morning like dust myself off, like crack
Speaker 2: the old joints. Nah, my body's been been struggling a
Speaker 2: little bit. I don't know if that's like related to
Speaker 2: my massive injuries that I've acquired over the years. But yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm getting on. I'm training regularly, so I trained
Speaker 2: just about every day Now they're good.
Speaker 1: How's your brain working? I always love to talk to
Speaker 1: people who are nearing fifty. I know you're a little
Speaker 1: bit away, but heading down the heading down the straight.
Speaker 1: How's your brain working? Do you feel like it's as
Speaker 1: good as it was when you're in your twenties?
Speaker 2: Not even close. My brain has been complete shape this year.
Speaker 2: It's been a rough year cognitive physically, like this this
Speaker 2: year has been a lot. I realized that halfway through
Speaker 2: the year I was struggling with burnout because in my
Speaker 2: work we help a lot of people who are struggling
Speaker 2: with burnout, A lot of people in the public sector
Speaker 2: who just keep getting more and more responsibilities and unpredictable
Speaker 2: shifts dumped on top of them. And as I'm studying
Speaker 2: the signs and symptoms of burnout, because there was a
Speaker 2: lot of things that were going on that they didn't
Speaker 2: understand why they were happening, and it was just so bizarre.
Speaker 2: So I just kept ignoring it. But as I'm studying
Speaker 2: more about burnout to you know, help other people, not me,
Speaker 2: of course, I was like, oh oh wow, I'm deep
Speaker 2: in it myself.
Speaker 1: Hmm. All right, So I've got an idea for today,
Speaker 1: which you know, I said to you I actually planned,
Speaker 1: and I never planned anything. It's funny. I've got to
Speaker 1: do two gigs this week for an organization in Melbourne,
Speaker 1: one on a Tuesday night, one on a Wednesday night,
Speaker 1: about one thousand people in each and one of the
Speaker 1: I don't know organizers ladies rang me the other day
Speaker 1: and said could you get your presentation through by Cob,
Speaker 1: you know, Clothes of Business. And I said, I don't
Speaker 1: have a presentation. She goes, but you're presenting Tuesday and
Speaker 1: Wednesday night. I said, well, look, I have a presentation,
Speaker 1: but not what you're talking about. I don't have slides,
Speaker 1: I don't have a video, I don't have She goes,
Speaker 1: what do you use it's so funny. Oh, I just
Speaker 1: my mind. I can't really send you that, but I'll
Speaker 1: bring it with me on the night. So I don't
Speaker 1: know why I went down that road.
Speaker 2: I think I think people who don't present regularly have
Speaker 2: an idea about what a presentation is supposed to be,
Speaker 2: and usually it's around the deck. So I lead a
Speaker 2: team of coaches and they did a presentation this past
Speaker 2: week and just they just crushed it. They're just n
Speaker 2: it out of the pulk. They were a little bit
Speaker 2: nervous in the beginning, but they just jumped right into
Speaker 2: it and they had to skit demonstrating why coaching works
Speaker 2: rather than other forms of transformation, which do work very well.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying coaching is the only tool, but just
Speaker 2: to make a long story short, the audience absolutely loved it,
Speaker 2: and they're going to be brought in and present for
Speaker 2: the board and they really prepared, like for a twenty
Speaker 2: minute presentation. They prepared several hours to get as you know,
Speaker 2: when you're getting into presenting, that's normal, that's admirable. But
Speaker 2: one of the things I warned them about is now
Speaker 2: that you're going out and you're doing this you're going
Speaker 2: to get a lot of advice on how to present,
Speaker 2: and most of it's going to come from people who
Speaker 2: have never really presented before, but they never really present well.
Speaker 2: And a lot of it's going to be on creating
Speaker 2: power points and what the power point should look like.
Speaker 2: And that is about two percent, if you're lucky, of
Speaker 2: the total impact. So it's just it's just I think
Speaker 2: people have a lot of anxiety around presentations. When I
Speaker 2: don't have a presentation, what is this gay get.
Speaker 1: To talk about exactly? Well, I think yeah. I think
Speaker 1: for many people, it's more of a psychological and psychological
Speaker 1: and emotional safety net. You know, it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's that. So even if I blank, there's that, which
Speaker 1: which I completely understand. And I will say the worst preyer,
Speaker 1: I've done four horrendous presentations in the last four years, horrendous,
Speaker 1: and each one of them were standing in front of
Speaker 1: an academic board presenting my research, and I will say
Speaker 1: I used PowerPoint like a motherfucker because I was so terrified.
Speaker 1: It's funny how the person who can talk to a
Speaker 1: thousand people comfortable, comfortably is terrified to talk to four
Speaker 1: people and every time, every time you know, on my rating,
Speaker 1: if I would rate myself one's ten, every time I
Speaker 1: was a two or three, I was so fucking terrified.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I guess it's context dependent.
Speaker 2: Now I think that's interesting, like what happens to someone
Speaker 2: who speaks for a living and speaks really well for
Speaker 2: a living. Like amongst speakers, it's like, if you get
Speaker 2: to a point where you're a professionally paid speaker, that's
Speaker 2: really cool. But if you're a professionally paid speaker and
Speaker 2: you do really well amongst your peers in that environment, well,
Speaker 2: that's something else. That's something that very few people do
Speaker 2: exceedingly well. And then you get into a different context,
Speaker 2: and someone who performs at a very high level finds
Speaker 2: themselves in a position where they're struggling. That's not a
Speaker 2: lack of skill, that's a psychological dynamic. That's a story
Speaker 2: you're telling yourself. That's how you're framing the situation. I mean,
Speaker 2: so much of presenting is what's going on in your
Speaker 2: inner world and how that shows up in your outer world.
Speaker 2: And I think it's cool to hear that people that
Speaker 2: are at the top of their field still struggle with
Speaker 2: the same things that other people are kind of self
Speaker 2: conscious and afraid of.
Speaker 1: I've always had an inferiority complex about my perceived lack
Speaker 1: of intelligence, and so when I Understandabook, yeah, no, thank you,
Speaker 1: and thanks for reinforcing that back in therapy for me.
Speaker 1: But I don't disagree with you. That's the worst part.
Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. But yeah, but then when
Speaker 1: you go and you know, we want you to just
Speaker 1: stand in front of these four professors and tell them
Speaker 1: about your research and while why the world needs it,
Speaker 1: and you to fucking take this out of the darkness
Speaker 1: and bring it into the light of new evidence and
Speaker 1: data and whatever. You know. So but you know, you
Speaker 1: get that we're all works in progress. You know, I think,
Speaker 1: I think for people like you and me that stand
Speaker 1: in front of a lot of audiences and write and
Speaker 1: teach and coach and all of these things. But for
Speaker 1: me anyway, I think it makes me more relatable. I
Speaker 1: don't do it to be more relatable, but I think
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm pretty good at some things,
Speaker 1: I'm not bad at others, and I'm fucking terrible at
Speaker 1: a bunch, but I'm a work in progress. And you know,
Speaker 1: I find waited till I got all my shit together
Speaker 1: and got everything fully functional and operational. Before I coached
Speaker 1: or taught or spoke or wrote or did a podcast,
Speaker 1: I'd never do anything, you know, I think.
Speaker 2: I think that comes down to a couple of questions,
Speaker 2: right One, What is intelligence? I think that's a critical question.
Speaker 2: So if you're talking to a chemical engineer who can't
Speaker 2: stand up in front of a room and string a
Speaker 2: few sentences together to save his life, is that person
Speaker 2: not intelligent? Where if you stepped into their domain you'd
Speaker 2: be completely lost? So is it about a certain area
Speaker 2: of knowledge? Is lack of knowledge equated with lack of intellect?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 2: Really, It's like what are you trying to do and
Speaker 2: what are the tools and resources you have to effectively
Speaker 2: do that thing? You know, we always it's like the
Speaker 2: head of the accounting department being upset with the head
Speaker 2: of marketing for not being more intelligent and accounting, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'm in marketing. I mean, obviously there's a lot
Speaker 2: of spreadsheets and data driven decision making and marketing as well.
Speaker 2: But they're two different skill sets and they should be.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes we look at other people and we
Speaker 2: judge ourselves by that comparison or other people look at
Speaker 2: individuals and judge them by what I'm competent in. It's rediculous,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 1: Well, you and I have a mutual friend known as
Speaker 1: the Crab, and you know the crab. I think the
Speaker 1: Crab finished school at e ten or eleven. And I've
Speaker 1: said this many times, but if you ever made any
Speaker 1: real world practical intelligence, fucking don't look to me, you know,
Speaker 1: just ask if it's anything that requires any level of
Speaker 1: ingenuity problem solving in the real world, any kind of
Speaker 1: any kind of practical skills, Like if you get stuck
Speaker 1: on a desert island, do not get stuck with me.
Speaker 1: Get stuck with a crab, because he'll build a city
Speaker 1: within about six months.
Speaker 2: I was talking about the Crab the other day in
Speaker 2: a meeting, in a business meeting, the Crab came up.
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody else brought it up, and I'm referring
Speaker 2: to walk as the crab. So I got a couple
Speaker 2: of weird looks. I miss him, like I miss seeing
Speaker 2: him on a consistent basis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well he talked about we often talk about you,
Speaker 1: all right, So my intention coming into today's chat with this,
Speaker 1: I've stolen a bunch of your quotes, and I want
Speaker 1: you to riff I've got maybe what have I got?
Speaker 1: I'm organized? This is you know, this could be a
Speaker 1: train wreck because I've actually planned and we know that
Speaker 1: it's not my it's not my operating system. All right,
Speaker 1: So I'm either going to make a statement or ask
Speaker 1: a question. Which you've written this is all your stuff,
Speaker 1: and then I want you to riff on each thing
Speaker 1: for about three or four minutes. How's that?
Speaker 2: I probably should have had that extra cup of coffee,
Speaker 2: but let's go all right.
Speaker 1: Number one is, now, these are either things other people
Speaker 1: have said and then you've you've taken that and shared
Speaker 1: it and riffed on it, or these are original, you know,
Speaker 1: bobby things, and some of them are questions. Like I said,
Speaker 1: So number one is sleep is for the lazy and weak.
Speaker 2: Oh this came up in a purse the other day. Yes,
Speaker 2: somebody had. Somebody had written that I've never met a
Speaker 2: single successful person that got to the end of their
Speaker 2: life and thought to themselves, I wish I had slapped more.
Speaker 2: And the implications are pretty obvious there. My question is,
Speaker 2: how do you define success? Have you ever met someone
Speaker 2: who got to the end of their life and said, Wow,
Speaker 2: I wish I didn't focus so much on meaningful relationships.
Speaker 2: I wish I wasn't as creative. I wish I didn't
Speaker 2: have the ability to concentrate and focus and get into flow.
Speaker 2: I wish I didn't have the level of working memory
Speaker 2: to go ahead and innovate. I wish I didn't have
Speaker 2: greater resilience. Because when you're talking about sleep, and this
Speaker 2: isn't like you don't need me to rattle on, and
Speaker 2: if you don't want to read the ountless thousands of
Speaker 2: peer reviewed studies that all point to the same exact thing,
Speaker 2: that the percentage of people that can get by on
Speaker 2: lack of sleep and still function, because there is a
Speaker 2: percentage of people that can do that, according to the research,
Speaker 2: and that percentage is zero. I mean, just go out
Speaker 2: shortcut read Matt Walks Why We Sleep, Go through that
Speaker 2: with an open read it once, maybe read it twice.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know you have the time to do
Speaker 2: this if you have this psychological frame, because we know
Speaker 2: you're not wasting time on frivolous things like sleeping. Read
Speaker 2: the book and then let's have a conversation. Sleep is
Speaker 2: one of those well being practices. Here's something that's really
Speaker 2: important about well being. So Gallop, I don't want to
Speaker 2: go off on a tangent on this. Gallup did over
Speaker 2: one hundred million intensive interviews with people representing ninety eight
Speaker 2: percent of the world's population. So it's not like people
Speaker 2: in Melbourne believe this and you know, and a little
Speaker 2: bit in Hong Kong, but we don't know about the
Speaker 2: rest of the world. And they found that the number
Speaker 2: one predictor of well being was in fact job satisfaction, right,
Speaker 2: And that's not a surprise when you unpack it and
Speaker 2: when you when you understand the reasoning and how they
Speaker 2: explain that by the way well Being at Work by
Speaker 2: Clifton and Harder, great book if you want to read
Speaker 2: more about that. But there's also an inverse relationship. The
Speaker 2: greater your level of wellbeing, the greater the likelihood that
Speaker 2: you're engaged and resilient in your work. Because right now,
Speaker 2: lack of wellbeing, lack of resilience and burnout. Not lazy
Speaker 2: people who are tired, very driven people who for a
Speaker 2: variety of factors, have gotten to the end of themselves.
Speaker 2: And the harder the try, the worse they perform. Sleep
Speaker 2: is a critical as are multiple wellbeing practice as critical
Speaker 2: piece of that puzzle. So I don't know if that
Speaker 2: really answers your question, but you did say.
Speaker 1: Riff perfect all right. Number two is a question, and
Speaker 1: the question is the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? Now,
Speaker 1: by the way, if you want to go deep on
Speaker 1: all of those everyone, Bobby's LinkedIn pages where I stole
Speaker 1: all those from, so follow him on LinkedIn. There's great
Speaker 1: videos of him on there. You can see he's pretty
Speaker 1: fece and just some great writing on this. So if
Speaker 1: you want to unpack this stuff and see the origin
Speaker 1: for those questions, got this. So the question is is
Speaker 1: the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? And go.
Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of a trap. I
Speaker 2: think it's one of the most galvanizing things that all
Speaker 2: human beings strive for. And like here in my country,
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about life, liberty and the pursuit
Speaker 2: of happiness, and you think after chasing something for a
Speaker 2: couple of hundred years, most people would have caught it
Speaker 2: by now. But it seems to be moving faster and
Speaker 2: faster and evading more and more people. I think not
Speaker 2: not to respond to a quote with a quote, but
Speaker 2: man search for meaning, written by doctor Victor Frankel, he
Speaker 2: has the unique distinction of having paid dearly for the
Speaker 2: insights he arrived at when he was alive, being a
Speaker 2: prisoner at auschwitzen Dachau. And he wrote that success like
Speaker 2: happiness cannot be pursued. It must ensue as an unintended
Speaker 2: side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater
Speaker 2: than oneself. I think when you identify what you value,
Speaker 2: what is meaningful, what inspires you, what makes you feel alive,
Speaker 2: and you go after that thing, you dig into it
Speaker 2: and you do the work, not necessarily because it's going
Speaker 2: to bring about an outcome, and there's nothing wrong with that,
Speaker 2: but you do it for its own sake, because it's
Speaker 2: intrinsically valuable. And if you go beyond actualization to transcendence,
Speaker 2: you do it because it contributes to someone or something
Speaker 2: bigger than you. I think happiness is what shows up inevitably,
Speaker 2: but I think happiness as a pursuit is almost a
Speaker 2: guarantee that it will elude you. And that's not to
Speaker 2: say that hedonic pleasures don't have a place. They really do,
Speaker 2: You know, I want to go out with my wife
Speaker 2: and you know, from our roof deck and watch a sunset.
Speaker 2: I want to have a glass of wine. I want
Speaker 2: to eat some great food and have great conversation. But
Speaker 2: that's by itself, is kind of fleeting. That'll make me happy,
Speaker 2: like you know, for for the sum total of an hour.
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, digging into meaning and your
Speaker 2: life's again work and well being. You got to ask
Speaker 2: your sol can I just can I just tangent off
Speaker 2: of this format for one second because.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure? But all right, So.
Speaker 2: I've read, you know, I've read like quite a few
Speaker 2: books by Gallup because the depth and breadth of their
Speaker 2: research I find highly insightful. And over the past couple
Speaker 2: of months I've read not only well Being at Work,
Speaker 2: but it's the manager. So I've been on this Gallagher
Speaker 2: not Gallagher, That's that's who organization I work with. But
Speaker 2: I've been on this Gallop kick for a while. And
Speaker 2: I got a chance to do a presentation a Gallup
Speaker 2: consultant for a massive school district out here on the
Speaker 2: west coast of the US. And before the presentation, I'm
Speaker 2: sitting with her and we're just we're just getting to
Speaker 2: know each other and I'm just like, I'm just a
Speaker 2: complete fanboy. And I asked the question. You know, everybody
Speaker 2: talks about well being, but it's like mindset. Everyone's got
Speaker 2: a different definition, you know being that well being is
Speaker 2: at the center of Gallup's research. How do you define
Speaker 2: well being? What she said was brilliant. She said, well
Speaker 2: being is everything that's important to you. In other words,
Speaker 2: everything and everyone you love, what you think about most
Speaker 2: of the time, and the experience you have of living.
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that's amazing. So when you talk
Speaker 2: about happiness, happiness is a byproduct of living in alignment
Speaker 2: with well being. And it's not just about you know,
Speaker 2: smoothies and meditation and yoga poses, all of which may or
Speaker 2: may not be great, right the smooth The smoothie is
Speaker 2: a little bit iffy, but it's it's it's about vision,
Speaker 2: it's about purpose, it's about optimization. Otherwise you're not going
Speaker 2: to get there because there's going to be too many
Speaker 2: disruptors that's stopping you from enjoying a life of well being.
Speaker 2: And when you're when you're enjoying a life of wellbeing,
Speaker 2: I think you're just so much more valuable to yourself
Speaker 2: to others impactful. I'm not talking about it on a
Speaker 2: global scale. I'm talking about a personally meaningful scale.
Speaker 1: Well, that was a very good answer. By the way,
Speaker 1: everyone man search remaining that Bobby was talking about by
Speaker 1: Victor Frankel is the book. If you want to go,
Speaker 1: have a look at that great book. I read that
Speaker 1: book years ago and years ago. For me, it was
Speaker 1: transformative and gave me a level of perspective that I
Speaker 1: did not have until I read that book. Number three
Speaker 1: is a question and then a comment. The question is
Speaker 1: can positive affirmations boost self confidence and help us manage
Speaker 1: stress more effectively? The answer is both yes and no.
Speaker 2: Robert, So, affirmations are pretty popular, and you scroll through
Speaker 2: your social media feed and you will find a self
Speaker 2: help guru within three point four seconds approximately that will
Speaker 2: tell you some form of affirmation. Well, there's some empirical
Speaker 2: evidence on it as well. So if by affirmations I
Speaker 2: mean staring myself in the mirror and saying nice things
Speaker 2: to myself, it's probably not going to work. And if
Speaker 2: my affirmations doesn't match my self concept, they'll probably do
Speaker 2: more harm than good. So, in other words, if I'm
Speaker 2: struggling financially and I say with confidence, I am, you know,
Speaker 2: wealthy and financially independent. All I'm really doing is illuminating
Speaker 2: the distance between where I am and where I really
Speaker 2: wish I need to be. So that's that's not a
Speaker 2: good thing, because somebody who is something doesn't have to
Speaker 2: continually profess it, Like someone who feels strong and resilient
Speaker 2: isn't sitting there going I am strong, I am resilient.
Speaker 2: I am strong, I am resilient. So those types of
Speaker 2: affirmations contradict my actual belief system about myself. It widens
Speaker 2: the gap, it doesn't narrowly. So that's the first thing.
Speaker 2: Second thing, Abrahem Sene, I think that I think that's
Speaker 2: who I mentioned in that post. I've referenced him a
Speaker 2: lot of times. He took groups of people and without
Speaker 2: getting into the details of the study, they were framed
Speaker 2: with I will right, so I will wake up and
Speaker 2: you know, go to the gym at five o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning, versus flipping it to will I now I will.
Speaker 2: People interesting things happen. Not only did they not improve
Speaker 2: in their performance or their behaviors that would lead to
Speaker 2: a certain outcome, they did worse than their baseline, and
Speaker 2: when asked why was that, It's like, Okay, well, I
Speaker 2: will wake up and go to the gym every morning
Speaker 2: at five am. That's my affirmation. But when I look
Speaker 2: back the past three New Years, my resolution was to
Speaker 2: lose five kilos. I actually ended up gaining two last year.
Speaker 2: So when I do that, I think I'm kind of
Speaker 2: full of shit all little bit, and I keep reminding
Speaker 2: myself of my lack of self efficacy and follow through
Speaker 2: every time I do that affirmation. So if I flip
Speaker 2: that will I Well, that's an open ended question, and
Speaker 2: that does a couple of things. One, it doesn't allow
Speaker 2: for the possibility of no, you won't that little voice
Speaker 2: in your head every time you say I will you know,
Speaker 2: I will pass up on the dessert and then the
Speaker 2: cheesecake comes around and it seduced me. You know, something
Speaker 2: like that. But what it also does is it allows
Speaker 2: for you to engage your prefrontal lobes, the planning executive
Speaker 2: reasoning action take taking center of your brain, the part
Speaker 2: of your brain that allows you to imagine something in
Speaker 2: the future and start to create plans that support that
Speaker 2: future outcome that you desire. Questions have the ability to
Speaker 2: do that because when you're in a state of high anxiety,
Speaker 2: when you're in a state of high doubt, or you're
Speaker 2: kind of feeling afraid, or there's a disruptive emotion that's
Speaker 2: getting in the way of you taking action. When you
Speaker 2: start to ask yourself questions, you start to upregulate your
Speaker 2: executive centers, your prefrontal lobes. So questions in the form
Speaker 2: of affirmations could be highly valuable, like will I wake
Speaker 2: up or or what is it that I know about
Speaker 2: myself that makes it likely I will wake up at
Speaker 2: five o'clock in the morning and go to the gym,
Speaker 2: Because now you're starting to not only on a neurobiological level,
Speaker 2: up regulate the centers of your brain that you need
Speaker 2: to lay those plans, but you're starting to search for
Speaker 2: areas of strength for attributes that you've utilized in the past.
Speaker 2: It's an expansive and highly constructive type of question. So
Speaker 2: if you're affirming something, it's got to be rooted in
Speaker 2: something you value. There has to be an emotional impetus
Speaker 2: behind that affirmation, and it has to be rooted in
Speaker 2: something that's not contradictory to all of the evidence that
Speaker 2: you've shown so far, and sometimes flipping that into a
Speaker 2: question could be very useful.
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it all right, next one,
Speaker 1: Sometimes the hardest part of making meaningful changes in our
Speaker 1: lives is simply getting started. This is no this is
Speaker 1: no major revelation, but I think it's important to unpack
Speaker 1: because so many of us are the one struggle to
Speaker 1: actually start, like with theoretical GENIEI but you know, we
Speaker 1: to actually get the wheels turning, create momentum and be
Speaker 1: in the middle of the process. Or we start, some
Speaker 1: of us start and within a short period of time
Speaker 1: we've we've stopped. So the statement was sometimes the hardest
Speaker 1: part of making meaningful changes in our lives is simply
Speaker 1: getting started.
Speaker 2: I think everybody, if we're honest with ourselves, has experienced
Speaker 2: that we wanted to do something, but we found ourselves
Speaker 2: perpetually getting ready to get ready, and there we could
Speaker 2: do a three hour show on Josh. The reasons for that,
Speaker 2: it's not because something's deficient or wrong with somebody, because
Speaker 2: in some areas we have trouble getting started. In other
Speaker 2: areas were absolutely brilliant, and other people envious. They look
Speaker 2: at us and go wow, I wish I had that
Speaker 2: level of initiative. So it's deeper than that. But when
Speaker 2: you take a look at predictability around behavior change, let's
Speaker 2: look at one of the most ubiquitously utilized models of
Speaker 2: therapy and coaching, which is motivational interviewing by William J.
Speaker 2: Miller and Stephen Ralnick. There's certain levels of predictability and
Speaker 2: it could be framed in the acronym DAMN CAT right,
Speaker 2: So DAMN stands for desire, ability, reasons, and need. So
Speaker 2: when people start talking about a desire to change, like
Speaker 2: instead of I should, I want to, that's a predictor
Speaker 2: of what is change talk where you start to not
Speaker 2: only acknowledge the need for change, but you also talk
Speaker 2: about the strategies for change and the frameworks by which
Speaker 2: you're going to initiate change. A stands for ability, right,
Speaker 2: like I can do this. A lot of times we
Speaker 2: have a desire, but we have very low level of
Speaker 2: confidence in our abilities. Or sometimes it's flipped like I
Speaker 2: know I can do this change, but I really don't
Speaker 2: have a strong, deeply rooted desire for it. And then
Speaker 2: there's reasons, and then there's there's a need, right, Like
Speaker 2: what's the need for me to change. And there's that
Speaker 2: story about this three frogs sitting on a log on
Speaker 2: a hot summer's day. One of the frogs thinks to themselves,
Speaker 2: you know what, I really want to jump into that
Speaker 2: cool pond and cool myself off. And the question is, well,
Speaker 2: how many frogs are now sitting on the log? And
Speaker 2: the answer is still three. One frog thought about it,
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. Doesn't mean they took any action
Speaker 2: and followed through. But all of those are predictors of change. Talk. Now,
Speaker 2: where the predictors start to get amplified is in the cat.
Speaker 2: The C stands for commitment. When somebody starts to go
Speaker 2: from I want to to I will, it's a much
Speaker 2: stronger predictor. Or the A is activation where I'm ready,
Speaker 2: like everybody has this magical day Monday, Monday, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do this, or the first of the year, New Year's resolution.
Speaker 2: When somebody is like I'm ready, when is ready now? Right?
Speaker 2: That becomes a much stronger predictor. But the strongest predictor
Speaker 2: that you are going to follow through in a series
Speaker 2: of behaviors that are in lined with an outcome is
Speaker 2: when you start to utilize the languaging of I am.
Speaker 2: That's when you already have taken action. So sometimes it's
Speaker 2: not about changing everything. Like I want to lose weight,
Speaker 2: So tomorrow I'm going to stop drinking. I'm gonna stop
Speaker 2: eating my favorite foods. I'm gonna sign up with it.
Speaker 2: If you could just do one thing, but get going,
Speaker 2: Like right now, what's the most accessible thing? I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously all those things are important, but what are you
Speaker 2: willing to do right now? Because once you start doing something,
Speaker 2: even a small thing, that supports a level of self efficacy,
Speaker 2: and it also starts to change your identity. Like so
Speaker 2: if you take a look at the work of BJ Fogg,
Speaker 2: which I know Paul Taylor has talked about extensively, or
Speaker 2: James Clear in his book Atomic Habits, we overestimate the
Speaker 2: power of discipline and will power in the long term,
Speaker 2: but we underestimate the power of restructuring our environment and
Speaker 2: our identity. So if you really want to do something,
Speaker 2: what's the most powerful indicator that you're that person that's
Speaker 2: going to take that action. If you've already started taking
Speaker 2: that action, you already start to see yourself at a
Speaker 2: small degree as being someone who is health conscious, as
Speaker 2: being an exercise. So the most important thing is to
Speaker 2: get going with something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a Monday night mentoring group. And
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, when you're coaching and teaching
Speaker 1: and mentoring, you're basically the guy or the girl up
Speaker 1: the front. Just you know, even with this podcast, we're
Speaker 1: just talking about a bunch of ideas and theories and strategies,
Speaker 1: but ultimately, for the listener, it's just theory. And I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm always impressing upon my group. This is not
Speaker 1: the work. Monday night with me is not the work.
Speaker 1: It's just the check in, right, You're like, your task
Speaker 1: is not to turn up on Monday night and listen
Speaker 1: to me for an hour and a half or two
Speaker 1: hours and take notes and ask a few random questions.
Speaker 1: Your real challenge is what happens after Monday night at
Speaker 1: nine o'clock. You know, It's like what I care about.
Speaker 1: I don't even care if you turn up because it's
Speaker 1: all recorded. They can watch it whenever I want them
Speaker 1: to turn up. But what I really care about is
Speaker 1: what happens in one hundred and sixty six intervening hours,
Speaker 1: you know, between Friday and Monday night at nine and
Speaker 1: then the following Monday night at seven, you know, like,
Speaker 1: tell me what you're doing, because it is that it
Speaker 1: is that you know, like you said before, is knowledge intelligence?
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, yeah, there are so many knowledgeable people
Speaker 1: who are not necessarily intelligent or are not applying the
Speaker 1: knowledge in an intelligent way and therefore not creating the
Speaker 1: outcomes they want. But fuck, they know a lot, they
Speaker 1: know a lot, they're just not doing a lot, achieving
Speaker 1: a lot, or changing a lot. And that's that is
Speaker 1: another three hour podcast right there. But just that I
Speaker 1: think also, mate, like the idea of fully committing I
Speaker 1: think scares people because people people some people like a
Speaker 1: get out of jail card. They want to be able
Speaker 1: to give themselves an escape clause like look, I tell
Speaker 1: you what, I'll see how it goes. I'll no, don't
Speaker 1: fucking see how it goes. Do it just yet? You know.
Speaker 2: That's and also to look at that though, all right,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, of course it's not going to be fun, quick, easy, painless, comfortable,
Speaker 1: familiar some of the time. Some of the time it
Speaker 1: will be fucking horrible. You'll not want to do it,
Speaker 1: you won't enjoy it. Sometimes sometimes you'll be terrified. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it'll be awesome. Sometimes you'll be growing and adapting and
Speaker 1: you'll be like, fuck, look at me. And then other
Speaker 1: times you'll be going backwards for whatever reason. That's the journey.
Speaker 1: But sitting on the metaphoric couch waiting for a sign
Speaker 1: from the universe, crossing your fingers, hoping that you might
Speaker 1: get inspired this week was fucking plan ever, no argument there.
Speaker 2: And there's two ways. There's two ways to approach this.
Speaker 2: One is I am going to go full in one
Speaker 2: hundred and get this out of my life. Because it's
Speaker 2: a little bit harder. Let's say I go all in
Speaker 2: with with pizza. I will never eat pizza again. Like
Speaker 2: it's not like, well, I'm going to cut back on pizza.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm just the type of person that doesn't
Speaker 2: eat pizza. It's done for some people, like closing off
Speaker 2: any other possibility, like shutting the door on pizza and
Speaker 2: never looking back, really works for other people for so
Speaker 2: many reasons. I have an act of recidivism. I eat
Speaker 2: pizza and then I'm done. Oh my god, I've I've
Speaker 2: fallen off the wagon. Start small and do Here's a story.
Speaker 2: I just remembered the story.
Speaker 1: This is not a story that we love a good story.
Speaker 2: Many many years ago, the first time I was ever
Speaker 2: living with a girlfriend, I was like very young. I
Speaker 2: must have been like twenty, like twenty one. Anyway, I
Speaker 2: was really young. I get woken up. It's two o'clock
Speaker 2: in the morning. My girlfriend is straddling my shoulders. Her
Speaker 2: knees are on my shoulders. She's got a fork and
Speaker 2: she's force feeding me cake half awake, whilst I can't
Speaker 2: move because her knees are like hitting me down to
Speaker 2: the bed. It was kind of hot. If I'm going
Speaker 2: to be honest, but you're a fucking idiot. After I'm
Speaker 2: swallowing the cake, I mean, ask Nick, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: And she's like, okay, I've brought friends over. I was
Speaker 2: out and I want you to come out and join us.
Speaker 2: And we just brought a cake and you're not going
Speaker 2: to pull this not eating cake shit, and she.
Speaker 1: Hang hang on, hang on. So you were asleep, she
Speaker 1: was out.
Speaker 2: I was asleep. She was out. She's probably a little
Speaker 2: bit intoxicated, to be fair.
Speaker 1: Right, And so she comes home kneels on you wait,
Speaker 1: my mind did go in a few directions at the
Speaker 1: start of this story, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: So so she has her knees on my shoulders and
Speaker 2: I wake up. I'm like, and then there's there's this
Speaker 2: fork and it's in and she's shoveling cake down my
Speaker 2: throat and it's like, what are you doing? This is insane.
Speaker 2: She's like, nope, I've got people over come on outside,
Speaker 2: hang out. We're gonna have some cake. And she knew
Speaker 2: she had to do that because at that point, getting
Speaker 2: me to eat cake, you had better luck trying to
Speaker 2: squeeze water out of a stone. And here's the reason
Speaker 2: why we've all had this. We go on a quote
Speaker 2: unquote diet. Right, this is back early like in my
Speaker 2: bodybuilding days, I had such a hard time starting a
Speaker 2: diet because I really loved bagels, and I loved pasta,
Speaker 2: and I absolutely loved pizza. And you would start and
Speaker 2: then something would happen, and then you start again. But
Speaker 2: after a while it becomes harder and harder for you
Speaker 2: to get off track. For a few reasons. There's loss
Speaker 2: of version. Right, there's I've put in so much work
Speaker 2: and effort, I don't want to blow it. But there's something,
Speaker 2: there's something deeper, and it goes back to identity. It's
Speaker 2: just I am the type of person now that eats
Speaker 2: a certain way. And my girlfriend was like, knew that
Speaker 2: I had gotten so deep down this rabbit hole of
Speaker 2: what I do and do not eat, and it was
Speaker 2: part of my identity. It's just like the only way
Speaker 2: I'm going to break this is if I force them
Speaker 2: to have some cake. There you go, you broke it.
Speaker 2: You've had cake, Come out and have some more. Because
Speaker 2: there was no way that I would come out into
Speaker 2: the living room, sit down and have cake with people
Speaker 2: at three in the morning. Just wouldn't do it. Or
Speaker 2: two in the morning whenever. So if you're going to start,
Speaker 2: how's about this. Don't change anything you eat. If you
Speaker 2: go out and you have your pizza, don't change that.
Speaker 2: You go out and you have whatever you define as
Speaker 2: junk food, don't change it. Add something to your diet.
Speaker 2: Start to add plants, Start to add a variety of
Speaker 2: vegetables to things that you're already eating. One, if your
Speaker 2: diet's bad enough, you desperately need those nutrients to begin with,
Speaker 2: you're doing your body a world of good. But two,
Speaker 2: at a very small level, you can't deny that you're
Speaker 2: doing things that a person who's conscientious about their health
Speaker 2: is doing. After a while, those behaviors are going to
Speaker 2: start to expand. Like in the gym business, some gyms
Speaker 2: will do the research and they'll figure out if somebody
Speaker 2: walks through the front door of our facility eight times
Speaker 2: within a month, the likelihood that they're going to stay
Speaker 2: and they're not going to cancel their membership after a
Speaker 2: month goes up exponentially. So those gyms can say, Craig,
Speaker 2: you know, I know that you haven't been in a gym,
Speaker 2: you know, for the past decade, and you're not really
Speaker 2: sure if this is for you. What if that concern
Speaker 2: was not even an issue, you didn't have to worry
Speaker 2: about follow through at all. What would you do right now?
Speaker 2: What would be your first step? And they can give
Speaker 2: you a money back guarantee. You know what, We have
Speaker 2: a money back guarantee because we understand people are uncertain.
Speaker 2: As long as you come to the gym eight times
Speaker 2: this month to prove that you've given yourself and this
Speaker 2: new lifestyle a chance. If at the end of thirty
Speaker 2: days eight visits you're not happy, we'll refund your money,
Speaker 2: no questions asked, because they know if you've walked into
Speaker 2: that gym eight times, the chances of you doing that
Speaker 2: are very slim.
Speaker 1: Yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, starting with just start with one behavior. And here's
Speaker 2: another reason why that works. It's like going to the
Speaker 2: doctor and going, ah, you know what, I keep having
Speaker 2: I keep having this issue, and they write you a
Speaker 2: script for five different drugs, which probably is not a
Speaker 2: very ethical thing to do. But we come back a
Speaker 2: month later and you're like, well, I'm feeling so much better. Well,
Speaker 2: which drug was doing it? We have no idea or
Speaker 2: I'm having these side effects. You know, I wake up
Speaker 2: at the morning and there's this lesion on my face.
Speaker 2: We don't know what drug is doing it. So sometimes
Speaker 2: starting small, but start works.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've told this story once or twice, but over
Speaker 1: six years, so most people won't have heard it more
Speaker 1: than a few times. I had clients who had come
Speaker 1: to me back in the day when I was on
Speaker 1: the gym floor, brand new people, and among you know,
Speaker 1: all the myriad of things that they probably needed to address,
Speaker 1: you know, from lifestyle to booze, to food to drugs
Speaker 1: to you know whatever, sleep. I had quite a few people.
Speaker 1: This is back in the day when a lot more
Speaker 1: people smoked, but quite a lot of people who smoked
Speaker 1: more than fifty cigarettes a day, which seems crazy, but
Speaker 1: back in the day was not totally rare. And I
Speaker 1: knew that if I said to somebody who smoked sixty
Speaker 1: cigarettes a day, okay, so today's your last cigarette, the
Speaker 1: chances of that sticking were zero, And so we would
Speaker 1: literally set a smoking goal for the week, you know,
Speaker 1: fifty a day. And people are like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: you're setting a goal for him to have fifty cigarettes
Speaker 1: to day. I go, well, in the if you step
Speaker 1: out of the micro and zoom back into the macro
Speaker 1: and you see what I'm doing, and you realize that
Speaker 1: this person's been smoking for thirty years, the chances of
Speaker 1: them stopping today because I said stop today are zero.
Speaker 1: So fifty cigarettes today is better than sixty. And over
Speaker 1: time we're going to bring that right down. But the
Speaker 1: most logical strategy would not be to go cold turkey today.
Speaker 1: But I love you thinking, all right, we've got ten minutes,
Speaker 1: let's move on. This one's a little bit different. I
Speaker 1: like this, I like all of them. Imagine a swim instructor.
Speaker 1: This is part of a bigger thing. That you wrote.
Speaker 1: Of course, imagine a swim instructor telling a beginner to
Speaker 1: just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques. I
Speaker 1: feel like that happens, or a version of that happens.
Speaker 1: I'll side again for the listeners. Imagine a swim instructor
Speaker 1: telling a beginner, in other words, someone who can't swim
Speaker 1: to just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques.
Speaker 1: That happens quite a bit, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Well. I think that's the default a lot of times,
Speaker 2: And sometimes I have criticisms about self help gurus. Now,
Speaker 2: a lot of amazing work is done through self help,
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of amazing speakers and educators
Speaker 2: in that space. My criticism is it's one of the
Speaker 2: only domains in life where you're a credible authority and
Speaker 2: you tell people what to do, and if you're really good,
Speaker 2: you tap into why they should do it. Now, mind you,
Speaker 2: it's not their why, it's your why, but it's a
Speaker 2: why being offered. What's left out is the how. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And if you were an educator in any other domain
Speaker 2: in life, you were a golf coach and you didn't
Speaker 2: have the how or a golf instructor is a better
Speaker 2: way of saying it. Or maybe you were working as
Speaker 2: an instructor in medical school and you were teaching somebody surgery.
Speaker 2: You told them what to do, you told them to
Speaker 2: grind and just cut harder, dig deeper, but you didn't
Speaker 2: really get to the how. You would send people out
Speaker 2: to murder a lot of individuals over the course of
Speaker 2: their career, and that medical school wouldn't be around very long.
Speaker 2: But in self help, for some reason, the how is
Speaker 2: left out. And if you're going to tell people what
Speaker 2: to do, you need to have viable, executable strategies on how,
Speaker 2: or you have to have the skill sets to extract
Speaker 2: the how from that particular individual. But when you take
Speaker 2: a look at James Petraska, who's one of the founders
Speaker 2: of the trans theoretical model of change, one of the
Speaker 2: things that he says, the reason why people don't get
Speaker 2: started is because they really do not know what to do.
Speaker 2: What I think he's getting at when you read how
Speaker 2: he explains it, they don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2: I know what to do, I don't know how to
Speaker 2: do it. And that's a problem that's not executable, that's
Speaker 2: not strategic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of when somebody he's worried, and
Speaker 1: then some well meaning person says to the worried person,
Speaker 1: don't worry.
Speaker 2: I didn't consider that yet. Wow, genius never occurred to
Speaker 2: me not to worry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're coaching, I might don't worry. Ah fuck,
Speaker 1: thank god you came along. I'm better.
Speaker 2: You know. It's interesting. It's everything that because we've all
Speaker 2: done stuff like that. Everything we're saying to the person, Yes,
Speaker 2: don't you think they've said the same things to themselves
Speaker 2: with greater intent, the greater judgment, greater shame. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's not helpful. It might be well meaning, but it's
Speaker 2: not helpful at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it all right. A man that is
Speaker 1: often quoted by you, Charles Bokowski, This is just two words.
Speaker 1: Don't try. Don't try explain that. That seems like counterintuitive advice.
Speaker 2: I don't quote Bukowski because I'm advocating anybody model him.
Speaker 2: I am attracted to highly flawed people, and that's that's
Speaker 2: again a different conversation out of context. And Bukowski and
Speaker 2: I had very similar beginnings in our childhood, so I
Speaker 2: kind of resonate I don't take that as.
Speaker 1: A that's probably that's Bobby's disclaimer. Everyone. Yeah, that's it,
Speaker 1: bukowski disclaimer.
Speaker 2: And when you talk about don't try, he's so believed
Speaker 2: in that. It is the epiteph on his tombstone. I
Speaker 2: don't think he meant it as this nihilistic resignation of
Speaker 2: what's the point of doing anything. We're all going to
Speaker 2: end up gone anyway. I think it was. It was
Speaker 2: just the opposite. Bukowski, in his later years, wrote several
Speaker 2: novels and hundreds of essays and poems. The guy was
Speaker 2: rather prolific. You don't produce that body of work by
Speaker 2: not trying. Bukowski's thing was, if you want to be
Speaker 2: a writer for any other reason, then you cannot help
Speaker 2: but to write. You're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2: Because the quintessential defining characteristic of a writer is not
Speaker 2: who is most financially successful, who's written. It's someone who
Speaker 2: writes continualm someone who produces a body of work. Don't
Speaker 2: try to be a writer. Be a writer. Sit down
Speaker 2: and get to the business of writing. And if there's
Speaker 2: not something that is so deeply emotionally resonant with you
Speaker 2: where you cannot not do the work. You're in it
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons. You're either doing it because you're
Speaker 2: looking for fame, you're looking for recognition, maybe you're doing
Speaker 2: it because you want to be admired by the opposite sex,
Speaker 2: the same sex, whatever, you're doing it for all the
Speaker 2: wrong reasons, and you're not going to be telling the truth.
Speaker 2: And in art, you've got to be truthful because it's
Speaker 2: about resonating with raw expression. So I think that's what
Speaker 2: he meant. If you want to be if you want
Speaker 2: to be anything, if you want to be fit, don't
Speaker 2: go out and try to be fit, engage in the behaviors,
Speaker 2: don't try to produce an outcome. That was one of
Speaker 2: the things I noticed when I was struggling with burnout
Speaker 2: is I was trying very horrid and I didn't understand why.
Speaker 2: I don't go out and step in front of an
Speaker 2: audience and I'm going to try to motivate them. I'm
Speaker 2: going to try. But I was doing these things. I
Speaker 2: was like, where is this coming from? And that's when
Speaker 2: I was one of the indicators of burnout. There's a
Speaker 2: difference between trying and being, and I think that's what Pokowski.
Speaker 3: Was talking about there's a very famous AFL coach over
Speaker 3: here who you wouldn't know of, but his name's John
Speaker 3: Kennedy and he was one of the most famous inspirational
Speaker 3: You know, in NFL and NBA, there's quite a few
Speaker 3: renowned inspirational coaches who.
Speaker 1: Were allegedly great leaders of men and all that. So
Speaker 1: John Kennedy was that in Australia and he was renowned
Speaker 1: for his rousing, kind of inspiring speeches to get athletes
Speaker 1: to do shit, superhuman shit, right. And it's not impressed
Speaker 1: of now, but in the sixties, there's this image of
Speaker 1: him is out. I think it's on the mcg the
Speaker 1: biggest cricket stadium in the world football austray and Reels
Speaker 1: Football Stadium, one hundred and something thousand people, and he's
Speaker 1: screaming in his players and he says, don't think do,
Speaker 1: don't think do. And that's not kind of a revelation now,
Speaker 1: but you know, this is like fifty sixty years ago
Speaker 1: he was he was basically, you know, pointing towards this
Speaker 1: kind of theme a little bit. I think, so all right,
Speaker 1: last one, you're ready go on.
Speaker 2: Last week had a pretty inspiring Johan Kennedy as well.
Speaker 2: I think it's something in the name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Ours didn't have an f to my knowledge.
Speaker 1: Well there's something all right. Last one, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the idea of optimizing our strengths versus focusing on our
Speaker 1: weakness is.
Speaker 2: I think as we're growing up, I know in my
Speaker 2: experience personally, it was a focus on here are your weaknesses,
Speaker 2: and you've got to sort yourself out. And if your
Speaker 2: weaknesses are like character flaws, like I've got this weakness,
Speaker 2: well what is it while I tend to embezzle a lot. Well,
Speaker 2: I think you need to probably work on that.
Speaker 1: But oh that is so good, Yeah that in bizzling.
Speaker 1: You've got to do something about that.
Speaker 2: Man, if your weakness is you know, I'm really amazing
Speaker 2: as a footballer, but I'm horrible at spreadsheets, you might
Speaker 2: not want to spend too much time on that. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more value and there's also a
Speaker 2: lot more creativity. There's a lot more innovation and possibility
Speaker 2: when you identify what am I quintessentially good at and
Speaker 2: build from there down in your strengths. Because if you
Speaker 2: take a look at I know I've talked about this
Speaker 2: or I think I've talked about this on the show
Speaker 2: because I talk about a lot doctor Martin Seligman. He's
Speaker 2: kind of like the father of positive psychology. He's done
Speaker 2: a lot of great work. And when you look at
Speaker 2: his frame and values in Action, so you could go
Speaker 2: to like VIIa dot Org, I think it is. Anyway,
Speaker 2: if you type in values in Action, it'll come up
Speaker 2: and you can take a version of this for free.
Speaker 2: It's a survey that helps you identify your values, and
Speaker 2: he believes that when you act on those values, which
Speaker 2: is my definition of authenticity, it shows up as a
Speaker 2: signature strength that what you're really strong at innately is
Speaker 2: usually aligned with what's most meaningful to you. So I
Speaker 2: think when you doubled down on that, not only are
Speaker 2: you leveraging the very best in you, but you're you're
Speaker 2: also doing something thing that gives you a sense of resilience.
Speaker 2: It gives you a sense of optimism, it gives you
Speaker 2: a sense of purpose in the face of challenge. It
Speaker 2: kind of does a lot. Because so here's another Gallop book, First,
Speaker 2: Break All the Rules. This is by Buckingham and Kaufman.
Speaker 2: They wrote that, and I think they interviewed something like
Speaker 2: eighty six thousand or an incredibly large base of highly
Speaker 2: effective managers, and they were identifying what separates an average
Speaker 2: leader from an exceptional leader. And one of the qualities
Speaker 2: was is that they identify and develop people's strengths. Because
Speaker 2: if you have people on your team and they're innately
Speaker 2: weak at something, and you spend a ton of time
Speaker 2: in resources helping them elevate their strengths, they go from
Speaker 2: they go from weakness to average. At the same time,
Speaker 2: the people who have marked strengths and those are being neglected,
Speaker 2: they're being ignored. That's where you should be spending the
Speaker 2: most of time with those people. I'm focused on, how
Speaker 2: do they expand their strengths their strengths start to decline
Speaker 2: to average. So now you've built a team of average performers. Yes,
Speaker 2: and it's counterintuitive, but it shows up in their data.
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense. What are your signature strengths?
Speaker 2: Spend most of the time there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think, you know, even in my tiny
Speaker 1: little business now with Melissa, and Tiff does a bit
Speaker 1: with us as well, and I have another guy called
Speaker 1: Greg who does a bit. But I always think based
Speaker 1: on what you know, based on what we need to do,
Speaker 1: be create and get done. What's the best use of me,
Speaker 1: like in this little business, what's the best use of me?
Speaker 1: What's the optimal use of me and my talent, my skills,
Speaker 1: my knowledge. What's the optimal use of Melissa? What's the
Speaker 1: optimal use of Tiff? How do we best exploit what
Speaker 1: each of us are good at? And as you said,
Speaker 1: you know me me going and rebuilding our website not
Speaker 1: a good use of me at all. Me uploading the
Speaker 1: file from this and then publishing it wherever the fuck
Speaker 1: it goes, and then doing I don't know, like I
Speaker 1: don't know how to turn this this. All I know
Speaker 1: is how to press this zoom link and get you
Speaker 1: and then talk to you and then press end call
Speaker 1: that's my and come up with a title and write
Speaker 1: a synopsis. But actually turning it into a thing that
Speaker 1: the world listens to that they can press on a
Speaker 1: button on their phone. And here's fucking Fatty Harps and
Speaker 1: Bobby Kapucco. I don't know how that happens, but I
Speaker 1: don't need to.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine as an experiment, Melessa, I think you
Speaker 2: need to get better at public speaking. I could probably
Speaker 2: be a little bit better at operations. For the next
Speaker 2: three months, we're going to swap. I'm going to run
Speaker 2: all the operations in the organization and you're going to
Speaker 2: do all the public speaking and all the podcasts, and
Speaker 2: we're going to come back three months from now. Just
Speaker 2: see how as.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is a very good point, mate, I
Speaker 1: realize how much I've missed you. Hey, I've got to
Speaker 1: find mate. I've got a bunch of questions. Can we
Speaker 1: do another one very soon?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. I just love hopping on here and chatting
Speaker 2: with the audience and riffing with you. It's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very good at it. All right. Tell people
Speaker 1: where they can find you and connect with you and
Speaker 1: listen to you.
Speaker 2: Well, you could listen to the self help and to
Speaker 2: do it. That's found in most places where you find podcasts,
Speaker 2: if that's helpful. Mostly I'm on LinkedIn. I'm staying away
Speaker 2: from other social media platforms. But I kind of like
Speaker 2: the dialogue. I like the conversation. I dig it, so
Speaker 2: you can find me there.
Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, mate, we'll say goodbye fare but once
Speaker 1: again thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you. What
Speaker 1: is it? So it's eight twenty eight Monday. More, No,
Speaker 1: what is it Sunday morning?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's too yeah out here in uh in
Speaker 2: uh San Diego.
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, we'll talk, So see you man.
Speaker 2: Cheers Bye,