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Speaker 1: I get atm. Welcome to another installing the AR project.

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Speaker 1: My long, long, long, not lost, but long time friend

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Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio of the self help Antidote and a million

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Speaker 1: other amazing things that he has done and is doing

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Speaker 1: over the years, joins me back on the U Project

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Speaker 1: for the first time in a long time.

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Speaker 2: Hi buddy, Hey, it's been a while. How are you doing.

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Speaker 2: You're good? Emily? Okay? Are you eating enough?

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Speaker 1: Have you been talking with my mum's that's hilarious. It's

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Speaker 1: actually as I'm recording this at seven point thirty three

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday, and after this, not straight after, but

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Speaker 1: after this, I'm heading up to see the dolls. The

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Speaker 1: dolls up in the thriving metropolis of La tre Valley.

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Speaker 1: Four hours of driving for three hours of just you know,

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Speaker 1: Mary's food. So I am. I am heading up there.

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Speaker 2: Are you good?

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Speaker 1: We haven't spoken for a long time. Are you has

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Speaker 1: your body? Are you in the gym? Are you training?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Why like looking at me? Is this

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Speaker 2: like calls for concern? Is this something you.

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Speaker 1: Want to No? No, no, but you've always got a

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Speaker 1: few issues like me. I've fucked up my road tight

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Speaker 1: acuff left for a tighter cuff badly, so I'm working

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Speaker 1: around that. How's your body holding up?

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Speaker 2: It's it's crickety. It's like I have to like wake

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Speaker 2: up in the morning like dust myself off, like crack

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Speaker 2: the old joints. Nah, my body's been been struggling a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I don't know if that's like related to

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Speaker 2: my massive injuries that I've acquired over the years. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I'm getting on. I'm training regularly, so I trained

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Speaker 2: just about every day Now they're good.

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Speaker 1: How's your brain working? I always love to talk to

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Speaker 1: people who are nearing fifty. I know you're a little

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Speaker 1: bit away, but heading down the heading down the straight.

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Speaker 1: How's your brain working? Do you feel like it's as

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Speaker 1: good as it was when you're in your twenties?

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Speaker 2: Not even close. My brain has been complete shape this year.

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Speaker 2: It's been a rough year cognitive physically, like this this

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Speaker 2: year has been a lot. I realized that halfway through

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Speaker 2: the year I was struggling with burnout because in my

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Speaker 2: work we help a lot of people who are struggling

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Speaker 2: with burnout, A lot of people in the public sector

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Speaker 2: who just keep getting more and more responsibilities and unpredictable

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Speaker 2: shifts dumped on top of them. And as I'm studying

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Speaker 2: the signs and symptoms of burnout, because there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of things that were going on that they didn't

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Speaker 2: understand why they were happening, and it was just so bizarre.

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Speaker 2: So I just kept ignoring it. But as I'm studying

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Speaker 2: more about burnout to you know, help other people, not me,

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Speaker 2: of course, I was like, oh oh wow, I'm deep

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Speaker 2: in it myself.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. All right, So I've got an idea for today,

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Speaker 1: which you know, I said to you I actually planned,

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Speaker 1: and I never planned anything. It's funny. I've got to

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Speaker 1: do two gigs this week for an organization in Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: one on a Tuesday night, one on a Wednesday night,

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Speaker 1: about one thousand people in each and one of the

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Speaker 1: I don't know organizers ladies rang me the other day

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Speaker 1: and said could you get your presentation through by Cob,

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Speaker 1: you know, Clothes of Business. And I said, I don't

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Speaker 1: have a presentation. She goes, but you're presenting Tuesday and

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Speaker 1: Wednesday night. I said, well, look, I have a presentation,

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Speaker 1: but not what you're talking about. I don't have slides,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a video, I don't have She goes,

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Speaker 1: what do you use it's so funny. Oh, I just

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Speaker 1: my mind. I can't really send you that, but I'll

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Speaker 1: bring it with me on the night. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I went down that road.

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Speaker 2: I think I think people who don't present regularly have

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Speaker 2: an idea about what a presentation is supposed to be,

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Speaker 2: and usually it's around the deck. So I lead a

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Speaker 2: team of coaches and they did a presentation this past

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Speaker 2: week and just they just crushed it. They're just n

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Speaker 2: it out of the pulk. They were a little bit

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Speaker 2: nervous in the beginning, but they just jumped right into

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Speaker 2: it and they had to skit demonstrating why coaching works

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Speaker 2: rather than other forms of transformation, which do work very well.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying coaching is the only tool, but just

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Speaker 2: to make a long story short, the audience absolutely loved it,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to be brought in and present for

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Speaker 2: the board and they really prepared, like for a twenty

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Speaker 2: minute presentation. They prepared several hours to get as you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're getting into presenting, that's normal, that's admirable. But

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Speaker 2: one of the things I warned them about is now

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Speaker 2: that you're going out and you're doing this you're going

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Speaker 2: to get a lot of advice on how to present,

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Speaker 2: and most of it's going to come from people who

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Speaker 2: have never really presented before, but they never really present well.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of it's going to be on creating

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Speaker 2: power points and what the power point should look like.

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Speaker 2: And that is about two percent, if you're lucky, of

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Speaker 2: the total impact. So it's just it's just I think

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Speaker 2: people have a lot of anxiety around presentations. When I

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Speaker 2: don't have a presentation, what is this gay get.

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Speaker 1: To talk about exactly? Well, I think yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: for many people, it's more of a psychological and psychological

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Speaker 1: and emotional safety net. You know, it's like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: there's that. So even if I blank, there's that, which

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Speaker 1: which I completely understand. And I will say the worst preyer,

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Speaker 1: I've done four horrendous presentations in the last four years, horrendous,

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Speaker 1: and each one of them were standing in front of

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Speaker 1: an academic board presenting my research, and I will say

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Speaker 1: I used PowerPoint like a motherfucker because I was so terrified.

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Speaker 1: It's funny how the person who can talk to a

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Speaker 1: thousand people comfortable, comfortably is terrified to talk to four

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Speaker 1: people and every time, every time you know, on my rating,

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Speaker 1: if I would rate myself one's ten, every time I

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Speaker 1: was a two or three, I was so fucking terrified.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I guess it's context dependent.

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Speaker 2: Now I think that's interesting, like what happens to someone

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Speaker 2: who speaks for a living and speaks really well for

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Speaker 2: a living. Like amongst speakers, it's like, if you get

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Speaker 2: to a point where you're a professionally paid speaker, that's

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Speaker 2: really cool. But if you're a professionally paid speaker and

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Speaker 2: you do really well amongst your peers in that environment, well,

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Speaker 2: that's something else. That's something that very few people do

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Speaker 2: exceedingly well. And then you get into a different context,

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Speaker 2: and someone who performs at a very high level finds

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Speaker 2: themselves in a position where they're struggling. That's not a

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Speaker 2: lack of skill, that's a psychological dynamic. That's a story

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Speaker 2: you're telling yourself. That's how you're framing the situation. I mean,

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Speaker 2: so much of presenting is what's going on in your

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Speaker 2: inner world and how that shows up in your outer world.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's cool to hear that people that

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Speaker 2: are at the top of their field still struggle with

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Speaker 2: the same things that other people are kind of self

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Speaker 2: conscious and afraid of.

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Speaker 1: I've always had an inferiority complex about my perceived lack

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Speaker 1: of intelligence, and so when I Understandabook, yeah, no, thank you,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for reinforcing that back in therapy for me.

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Speaker 1: But I don't disagree with you. That's the worst part.

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Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. But yeah, but then when

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Speaker 1: you go and you know, we want you to just

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Speaker 1: stand in front of these four professors and tell them

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Speaker 1: about your research and while why the world needs it,

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Speaker 1: and you to fucking take this out of the darkness

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Speaker 1: and bring it into the light of new evidence and

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Speaker 1: data and whatever. You know. So but you know, you

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Speaker 1: get that we're all works in progress. You know, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think for people like you and me that stand

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Speaker 1: in front of a lot of audiences and write and

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Speaker 1: teach and coach and all of these things. But for

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Speaker 1: me anyway, I think it makes me more relatable. I

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Speaker 1: don't do it to be more relatable, but I think

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Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm pretty good at some things,

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Speaker 1: I'm not bad at others, and I'm fucking terrible at

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Speaker 1: a bunch, but I'm a work in progress. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I find waited till I got all my shit together

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Speaker 1: and got everything fully functional and operational. Before I coached

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Speaker 1: or taught or spoke or wrote or did a podcast,

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Speaker 1: I'd never do anything, you know, I think.

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Speaker 2: I think that comes down to a couple of questions,

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Speaker 2: right One, What is intelligence? I think that's a critical question.

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Speaker 2: So if you're talking to a chemical engineer who can't

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Speaker 2: stand up in front of a room and string a

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Speaker 2: few sentences together to save his life, is that person

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Speaker 2: not intelligent? Where if you stepped into their domain you'd

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Speaker 2: be completely lost? So is it about a certain area

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Speaker 2: of knowledge? Is lack of knowledge equated with lack of intellect?

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Speaker 1: Not?

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Speaker 2: Really, It's like what are you trying to do and

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Speaker 2: what are the tools and resources you have to effectively

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Speaker 2: do that thing? You know, we always it's like the

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Speaker 2: head of the accounting department being upset with the head

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Speaker 2: of marketing for not being more intelligent and accounting, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I'm in marketing. I mean, obviously there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of spreadsheets and data driven decision making and marketing as well.

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Speaker 2: But they're two different skill sets and they should be.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes we look at other people and we

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Speaker 2: judge ourselves by that comparison or other people look at

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Speaker 2: individuals and judge them by what I'm competent in. It's rediculous,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you and I have a mutual friend known as

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Speaker 1: the Crab, and you know the crab. I think the

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Speaker 1: Crab finished school at e ten or eleven. And I've

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Speaker 1: said this many times, but if you ever made any

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Speaker 1: real world practical intelligence, fucking don't look to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: just ask if it's anything that requires any level of

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Speaker 1: ingenuity problem solving in the real world, any kind of

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Speaker 1: any kind of practical skills, Like if you get stuck

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Speaker 1: on a desert island, do not get stuck with me.

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Speaker 1: Get stuck with a crab, because he'll build a city

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Speaker 1: within about six months.

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Speaker 2: I was talking about the Crab the other day in

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Speaker 2: a meeting, in a business meeting, the Crab came up.

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Speaker 2: I mean, nobody else brought it up, and I'm referring

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Speaker 2: to walk as the crab. So I got a couple

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Speaker 2: of weird looks. I miss him, like I miss seeing

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Speaker 2: him on a consistent basis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well he talked about we often talk about you,

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Speaker 1: all right, So my intention coming into today's chat with this,

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Speaker 1: I've stolen a bunch of your quotes, and I want

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Speaker 1: you to riff I've got maybe what have I got?

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Speaker 1: I'm organized? This is you know, this could be a

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Speaker 1: train wreck because I've actually planned and we know that

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Speaker 1: it's not my it's not my operating system. All right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm either going to make a statement or ask

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Speaker 1: a question. Which you've written this is all your stuff,

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Speaker 1: and then I want you to riff on each thing

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Speaker 1: for about three or four minutes. How's that?

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Speaker 2: I probably should have had that extra cup of coffee,

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Speaker 2: but let's go all right.

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Speaker 1: Number one is, now, these are either things other people

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Speaker 1: have said and then you've you've taken that and shared

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Speaker 1: it and riffed on it, or these are original, you know,

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Speaker 1: bobby things, and some of them are questions. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: So number one is sleep is for the lazy and weak.

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Speaker 2: Oh this came up in a purse the other day. Yes,

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Speaker 2: somebody had. Somebody had written that I've never met a

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Speaker 2: single successful person that got to the end of their

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Speaker 2: life and thought to themselves, I wish I had slapped more.

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Speaker 2: And the implications are pretty obvious there. My question is,

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Speaker 2: how do you define success? Have you ever met someone

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Speaker 2: who got to the end of their life and said, Wow,

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Speaker 2: I wish I didn't focus so much on meaningful relationships.

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Speaker 2: I wish I wasn't as creative. I wish I didn't

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Speaker 2: have the ability to concentrate and focus and get into flow.

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Speaker 2: I wish I didn't have the level of working memory

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Speaker 2: to go ahead and innovate. I wish I didn't have

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Speaker 2: greater resilience. Because when you're talking about sleep, and this

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Speaker 2: isn't like you don't need me to rattle on, and

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Speaker 2: if you don't want to read the ountless thousands of

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Speaker 2: peer reviewed studies that all point to the same exact thing,

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Speaker 2: that the percentage of people that can get by on

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Speaker 2: lack of sleep and still function, because there is a

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Speaker 2: percentage of people that can do that, according to the research,

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Speaker 2: and that percentage is zero. I mean, just go out

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Speaker 2: shortcut read Matt Walks Why We Sleep, Go through that

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Speaker 2: with an open read it once, maybe read it twice.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know you have the time to do

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Speaker 2: this if you have this psychological frame, because we know

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Speaker 2: you're not wasting time on frivolous things like sleeping. Read

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Speaker 2: the book and then let's have a conversation. Sleep is

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Speaker 2: one of those well being practices. Here's something that's really

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Speaker 2: important about well being. So Gallop, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: go off on a tangent on this. Gallup did over

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Speaker 2: one hundred million intensive interviews with people representing ninety eight

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Speaker 2: percent of the world's population. So it's not like people

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Speaker 2: in Melbourne believe this and you know, and a little

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Speaker 2: bit in Hong Kong, but we don't know about the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world. And they found that the number

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Speaker 2: one predictor of well being was in fact job satisfaction, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's not a surprise when you unpack it and

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Speaker 2: when you when you understand the reasoning and how they

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Speaker 2: explain that by the way well Being at Work by

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Speaker 2: Clifton and Harder, great book if you want to read

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Speaker 2: more about that. But there's also an inverse relationship. The

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Speaker 2: greater your level of wellbeing, the greater the likelihood that

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Speaker 2: you're engaged and resilient in your work. Because right now,

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Speaker 2: lack of wellbeing, lack of resilience and burnout. Not lazy

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Speaker 2: people who are tired, very driven people who for a

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Speaker 2: variety of factors, have gotten to the end of themselves.

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Speaker 2: And the harder the try, the worse they perform. Sleep

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Speaker 2: is a critical as are multiple wellbeing practice as critical

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Speaker 2: piece of that puzzle. So I don't know if that

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Speaker 2: really answers your question, but you did say.

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Speaker 1: Riff perfect all right. Number two is a question, and

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Speaker 1: the question is the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? Now,

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you want to go deep on

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Speaker 1: all of those everyone, Bobby's LinkedIn pages where I stole

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Speaker 1: all those from, so follow him on LinkedIn. There's great

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Speaker 1: videos of him on there. You can see he's pretty

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Speaker 1: fece and just some great writing on this. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to unpack this stuff and see the origin

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Speaker 1: for those questions, got this. So the question is is

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Speaker 1: the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? And go.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of a trap. I

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Speaker 2: think it's one of the most galvanizing things that all

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Speaker 2: human beings strive for. And like here in my country,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talk about life, liberty and the pursuit

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Speaker 2: of happiness, and you think after chasing something for a

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Speaker 2: couple of hundred years, most people would have caught it

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Speaker 2: by now. But it seems to be moving faster and

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Speaker 2: faster and evading more and more people. I think not

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Speaker 2: not to respond to a quote with a quote, but

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Speaker 2: man search for meaning, written by doctor Victor Frankel, he

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Speaker 2: has the unique distinction of having paid dearly for the

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Speaker 2: insights he arrived at when he was alive, being a

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Speaker 2: prisoner at auschwitzen Dachau. And he wrote that success like

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Speaker 2: happiness cannot be pursued. It must ensue as an unintended

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Speaker 2: side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater

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Speaker 2: than oneself. I think when you identify what you value,

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Speaker 2: what is meaningful, what inspires you, what makes you feel alive,

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Speaker 2: and you go after that thing, you dig into it

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Speaker 2: and you do the work, not necessarily because it's going

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Speaker 2: to bring about an outcome, and there's nothing wrong with that,

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Speaker 2: but you do it for its own sake, because it's

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Speaker 2: intrinsically valuable. And if you go beyond actualization to transcendence,

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Speaker 2: you do it because it contributes to someone or something

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Speaker 2: bigger than you. I think happiness is what shows up inevitably,

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Speaker 2: but I think happiness as a pursuit is almost a

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Speaker 2: guarantee that it will elude you. And that's not to

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Speaker 2: say that hedonic pleasures don't have a place. They really do,

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Speaker 2: You know, I want to go out with my wife

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Speaker 2: and you know, from our roof deck and watch a sunset.

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Speaker 2: I want to have a glass of wine. I want

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Speaker 2: to eat some great food and have great conversation. But

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Speaker 2: that's by itself, is kind of fleeting. That'll make me happy,

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Speaker 2: like you know, for for the sum total of an hour.

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Speaker 2: But I think, you know, digging into meaning and your

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Speaker 2: life's again work and well being. You got to ask

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Speaker 2: your sol can I just can I just tangent off

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Speaker 2: of this format for one second because.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure? But all right, So.

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Speaker 2: I've read, you know, I've read like quite a few

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Speaker 2: books by Gallup because the depth and breadth of their

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Speaker 2: research I find highly insightful. And over the past couple

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Speaker 2: of months I've read not only well Being at Work,

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Speaker 2: but it's the manager. So I've been on this Gallagher

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Speaker 2: not Gallagher, That's that's who organization I work with. But

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Speaker 2: I've been on this Gallop kick for a while. And

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Speaker 2: I got a chance to do a presentation a Gallup

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Speaker 2: consultant for a massive school district out here on the

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Speaker 2: west coast of the US. And before the presentation, I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting with her and we're just we're just getting to

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Speaker 2: know each other and I'm just like, I'm just a

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Speaker 2: complete fanboy. And I asked the question. You know, everybody

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Speaker 2: talks about well being, but it's like mindset. Everyone's got

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Speaker 2: a different definition, you know being that well being is

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Speaker 2: at the center of Gallup's research. How do you define

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Speaker 2: well being? What she said was brilliant. She said, well

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Speaker 2: being is everything that's important to you. In other words,

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Speaker 2: everything and everyone you love, what you think about most

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Speaker 2: of the time, and the experience you have of living.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that's amazing. So when you talk

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Speaker 2: about happiness, happiness is a byproduct of living in alignment

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Speaker 2: with well being. And it's not just about you know,

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Speaker 2: smoothies and meditation and yoga poses, all of which may or

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Speaker 2: may not be great, right the smooth The smoothie is

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Speaker 2: a little bit iffy, but it's it's it's about vision,

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Speaker 2: it's about purpose, it's about optimization. Otherwise you're not going

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Speaker 2: to get there because there's going to be too many

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Speaker 2: disruptors that's stopping you from enjoying a life of well being.

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Speaker 2: And when you're when you're enjoying a life of wellbeing,

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Speaker 2: I think you're just so much more valuable to yourself

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Speaker 2: to others impactful. I'm not talking about it on a

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Speaker 2: global scale. I'm talking about a personally meaningful scale.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was a very good answer. By the way,

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Speaker 1: everyone man search remaining that Bobby was talking about by

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Speaker 1: Victor Frankel is the book. If you want to go,

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Speaker 1: have a look at that great book. I read that

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Speaker 1: book years ago and years ago. For me, it was

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Speaker 1: transformative and gave me a level of perspective that I

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Speaker 1: did not have until I read that book. Number three

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Speaker 1: is a question and then a comment. The question is

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Speaker 1: can positive affirmations boost self confidence and help us manage

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Speaker 1: stress more effectively? The answer is both yes and no.

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Speaker 2: Robert, So, affirmations are pretty popular, and you scroll through

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Speaker 2: your social media feed and you will find a self

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Speaker 2: help guru within three point four seconds approximately that will

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Speaker 2: tell you some form of affirmation. Well, there's some empirical

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Speaker 2: evidence on it as well. So if by affirmations I

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Speaker 2: mean staring myself in the mirror and saying nice things

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Speaker 2: to myself, it's probably not going to work. And if

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Speaker 2: my affirmations doesn't match my self concept, they'll probably do

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Speaker 2: more harm than good. So, in other words, if I'm

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Speaker 2: struggling financially and I say with confidence, I am, you know,

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Speaker 2: wealthy and financially independent. All I'm really doing is illuminating

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Speaker 2: the distance between where I am and where I really

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Speaker 2: wish I need to be. So that's that's not a

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Speaker 2: good thing, because somebody who is something doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: continually profess it, Like someone who feels strong and resilient

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Speaker 2: isn't sitting there going I am strong, I am resilient.

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Speaker 2: I am strong, I am resilient. So those types of

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Speaker 2: affirmations contradict my actual belief system about myself. It widens

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Speaker 2: the gap, it doesn't narrowly. So that's the first thing.

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Speaker 2: Second thing, Abrahem Sene, I think that I think that's

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Speaker 2: who I mentioned in that post. I've referenced him a

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Speaker 2: lot of times. He took groups of people and without

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Speaker 2: getting into the details of the study, they were framed

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Speaker 2: with I will right, so I will wake up and

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Speaker 2: you know, go to the gym at five o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning, versus flipping it to will I now I will.

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Speaker 2: People interesting things happen. Not only did they not improve

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Speaker 2: in their performance or their behaviors that would lead to

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Speaker 2: a certain outcome, they did worse than their baseline, and

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Speaker 2: when asked why was that, It's like, Okay, well, I

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Speaker 2: will wake up and go to the gym every morning

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Speaker 2: at five am. That's my affirmation. But when I look

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Speaker 2: back the past three New Years, my resolution was to

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Speaker 2: lose five kilos. I actually ended up gaining two last year.

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Speaker 2: So when I do that, I think I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: full of shit all little bit, and I keep reminding

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Speaker 2: myself of my lack of self efficacy and follow through

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Speaker 2: every time I do that affirmation. So if I flip

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Speaker 2: that will I Well, that's an open ended question, and

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Speaker 2: that does a couple of things. One, it doesn't allow

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Speaker 2: for the possibility of no, you won't that little voice

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Speaker 2: in your head every time you say I will you know,

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Speaker 2: I will pass up on the dessert and then the

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Speaker 2: cheesecake comes around and it seduced me. You know, something

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Speaker 2: like that. But what it also does is it allows

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Speaker 2: for you to engage your prefrontal lobes, the planning executive

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Speaker 2: reasoning action take taking center of your brain, the part

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Speaker 2: of your brain that allows you to imagine something in

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Speaker 2: the future and start to create plans that support that

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Speaker 2: future outcome that you desire. Questions have the ability to

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Speaker 2: do that because when you're in a state of high anxiety,

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Speaker 2: when you're in a state of high doubt, or you're

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Speaker 2: kind of feeling afraid, or there's a disruptive emotion that's

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Speaker 2: getting in the way of you taking action. When you

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Speaker 2: start to ask yourself questions, you start to upregulate your

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Speaker 2: executive centers, your prefrontal lobes. So questions in the form

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Speaker 2: of affirmations could be highly valuable, like will I wake

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Speaker 2: up or or what is it that I know about

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Speaker 2: myself that makes it likely I will wake up at

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Speaker 2: five o'clock in the morning and go to the gym,

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Speaker 2: Because now you're starting to not only on a neurobiological level,

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Speaker 2: up regulate the centers of your brain that you need

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Speaker 2: to lay those plans, but you're starting to search for

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Speaker 2: areas of strength for attributes that you've utilized in the past.

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Speaker 2: It's an expansive and highly constructive type of question. So

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Speaker 2: if you're affirming something, it's got to be rooted in

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Speaker 2: something you value. There has to be an emotional impetus

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Speaker 2: behind that affirmation, and it has to be rooted in

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Speaker 2: something that's not contradictory to all of the evidence that

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Speaker 2: you've shown so far, and sometimes flipping that into a

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Speaker 2: question could be very useful.

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Speaker 1: I love it, I love it all right, next one,

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the hardest part of making meaningful changes in our

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Speaker 1: lives is simply getting started. This is no this is

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Speaker 1: no major revelation, but I think it's important to unpack

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Speaker 1: because so many of us are the one struggle to

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Speaker 1: actually start, like with theoretical GENIEI but you know, we

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Speaker 1: to actually get the wheels turning, create momentum and be

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the process. Or we start, some

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Speaker 1: of us start and within a short period of time

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Speaker 1: we've we've stopped. So the statement was sometimes the hardest

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Speaker 1: part of making meaningful changes in our lives is simply

430
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: getting started.

431
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: I think everybody, if we're honest with ourselves, has experienced

432
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: that we wanted to do something, but we found ourselves

433
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: perpetually getting ready to get ready, and there we could

434
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 2: do a three hour show on Josh. The reasons for that,

435
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: it's not because something's deficient or wrong with somebody, because

436
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: in some areas we have trouble getting started. In other

437
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: areas were absolutely brilliant, and other people envious. They look

438
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: at us and go wow, I wish I had that

439
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: level of initiative. So it's deeper than that. But when

440
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: you take a look at predictability around behavior change, let's

441
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: look at one of the most ubiquitously utilized models of

442
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: therapy and coaching, which is motivational interviewing by William J.

443
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: Miller and Stephen Ralnick. There's certain levels of predictability and

444
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: it could be framed in the acronym DAMN CAT right,

445
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: So DAMN stands for desire, ability, reasons, and need. So

446
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: when people start talking about a desire to change, like

447
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: instead of I should, I want to, that's a predictor

448
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: of what is change talk where you start to not

449
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: only acknowledge the need for change, but you also talk

450
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: about the strategies for change and the frameworks by which

451
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 2: you're going to initiate change. A stands for ability, right,

452
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: like I can do this. A lot of times we

453
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 2: have a desire, but we have very low level of

454
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: confidence in our abilities. Or sometimes it's flipped like I

455
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: know I can do this change, but I really don't

456
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: have a strong, deeply rooted desire for it. And then

457
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: there's reasons, and then there's there's a need, right, Like

458
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: what's the need for me to change. And there's that

459
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: story about this three frogs sitting on a log on

460
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: a hot summer's day. One of the frogs thinks to themselves,

461
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: you know what, I really want to jump into that

462
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: cool pond and cool myself off. And the question is, well,

463
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: how many frogs are now sitting on the log? And

464
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: the answer is still three. One frog thought about it,

465
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. Doesn't mean they took any action

466
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: and followed through. But all of those are predictors of change. Talk. Now,

467
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: where the predictors start to get amplified is in the cat.

468
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: The C stands for commitment. When somebody starts to go

469
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: from I want to to I will, it's a much

470
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 2: stronger predictor. Or the A is activation where I'm ready,

471
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: like everybody has this magical day Monday, Monday, I'm gonna

472
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: do this, or the first of the year, New Year's resolution.

473
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: When somebody is like I'm ready, when is ready now? Right?

474
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: That becomes a much stronger predictor. But the strongest predictor

475
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: that you are going to follow through in a series

476
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: of behaviors that are in lined with an outcome is

477
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: when you start to utilize the languaging of I am.

478
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: That's when you already have taken action. So sometimes it's

479
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: not about changing everything. Like I want to lose weight,

480
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: So tomorrow I'm going to stop drinking. I'm gonna stop

481
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: eating my favorite foods. I'm gonna sign up with it.

482
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: If you could just do one thing, but get going,

483
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: Like right now, what's the most accessible thing? I mean,

484
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: obviously all those things are important, but what are you

485
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: willing to do right now? Because once you start doing something,

486
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: even a small thing, that supports a level of self efficacy,

487
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: and it also starts to change your identity. Like so

488
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: if you take a look at the work of BJ Fogg,

489
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: which I know Paul Taylor has talked about extensively, or

490
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: James Clear in his book Atomic Habits, we overestimate the

491
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: power of discipline and will power in the long term,

492
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: but we underestimate the power of restructuring our environment and

493
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: our identity. So if you really want to do something,

494
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: what's the most powerful indicator that you're that person that's

495
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 2: going to take that action. If you've already started taking

496
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: that action, you already start to see yourself at a

497
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: small degree as being someone who is health conscious, as

498
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: being an exercise. So the most important thing is to

499
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: get going with something.

500
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a Monday night mentoring group. And

501
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, when you're coaching and teaching

502
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: and mentoring, you're basically the guy or the girl up

503
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: the front. Just you know, even with this podcast, we're

504
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: just talking about a bunch of ideas and theories and strategies,

505
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: but ultimately, for the listener, it's just theory. And I'm

506
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: and I'm always impressing upon my group. This is not

507
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: the work. Monday night with me is not the work.

508
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: It's just the check in, right, You're like, your task

509
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: is not to turn up on Monday night and listen

510
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: to me for an hour and a half or two

511
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: hours and take notes and ask a few random questions.

512
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: Your real challenge is what happens after Monday night at

513
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: nine o'clock. You know, It's like what I care about.

514
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't even care if you turn up because it's

515
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: all recorded. They can watch it whenever I want them

516
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: to turn up. But what I really care about is

517
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: what happens in one hundred and sixty six intervening hours,

518
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, between Friday and Monday night at nine and

519
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: then the following Monday night at seven, you know, like,

520
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: tell me what you're doing, because it is that it

521
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: is that you know, like you said before, is knowledge intelligence?

522
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, yeah, there are so many knowledgeable people

523
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: who are not necessarily intelligent or are not applying the

524
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: knowledge in an intelligent way and therefore not creating the

525
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: outcomes they want. But fuck, they know a lot, they

526
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: know a lot, they're just not doing a lot, achieving

527
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: a lot, or changing a lot. And that's that is

528
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: another three hour podcast right there. But just that I

529
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: think also, mate, like the idea of fully committing I

530
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: think scares people because people people some people like a

531
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: get out of jail card. They want to be able

532
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: to give themselves an escape clause like look, I tell

533
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: you what, I'll see how it goes. I'll no, don't

534
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: fucking see how it goes. Do it just yet? You know.

535
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: That's and also to look at that though, all right,

536
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: go ahead.

537
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, of course it's not going to be fun, quick, easy, painless, comfortable,

538
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: familiar some of the time. Some of the time it

539
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: will be fucking horrible. You'll not want to do it,

540
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: you won't enjoy it. Sometimes sometimes you'll be terrified. Sometimes

541
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: it'll be awesome. Sometimes you'll be growing and adapting and

542
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: you'll be like, fuck, look at me. And then other

543
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: times you'll be going backwards for whatever reason. That's the journey.

544
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: But sitting on the metaphoric couch waiting for a sign

545
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: from the universe, crossing your fingers, hoping that you might

546
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: get inspired this week was fucking plan ever, no argument there.

547
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: And there's two ways. There's two ways to approach this.

548
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 2: One is I am going to go full in one

549
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: hundred and get this out of my life. Because it's

550
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: a little bit harder. Let's say I go all in

551
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: with with pizza. I will never eat pizza again. Like

552
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: it's not like, well, I'm going to cut back on pizza.

553
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm just the type of person that doesn't

554
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: eat pizza. It's done for some people, like closing off

555
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: any other possibility, like shutting the door on pizza and

556
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: never looking back, really works for other people for so

557
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: many reasons. I have an act of recidivism. I eat

558
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: pizza and then I'm done. Oh my god, I've I've

559
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: fallen off the wagon. Start small and do Here's a story.

560
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: I just remembered the story.

561
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: This is not a story that we love a good story.

562
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: Many many years ago, the first time I was ever

563
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: living with a girlfriend, I was like very young. I

564
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: must have been like twenty, like twenty one. Anyway, I

565
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 2: was really young. I get woken up. It's two o'clock

566
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: in the morning. My girlfriend is straddling my shoulders. Her

567
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: knees are on my shoulders. She's got a fork and

568
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 2: she's force feeding me cake half awake, whilst I can't

569
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: move because her knees are like hitting me down to

570
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: the bed. It was kind of hot. If I'm going

571
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: to be honest, but you're a fucking idiot. After I'm

572
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: swallowing the cake, I mean, ask Nick, what are you doing?

573
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: And she's like, okay, I've brought friends over. I was

574
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: out and I want you to come out and join us.

575
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: And we just brought a cake and you're not going

576
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: to pull this not eating cake shit, and she.

577
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: Hang hang on, hang on. So you were asleep, she

578
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: was out.

579
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: I was asleep. She was out. She's probably a little

580
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: bit intoxicated, to be fair.

581
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: Right, And so she comes home kneels on you wait,

582
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: my mind did go in a few directions at the

583
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: start of this story, but that's okay.

584
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: So so she has her knees on my shoulders and

585
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: I wake up. I'm like, and then there's there's this

586
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: fork and it's in and she's shoveling cake down my

587
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: throat and it's like, what are you doing? This is insane.

588
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: She's like, nope, I've got people over come on outside,

589
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: hang out. We're gonna have some cake. And she knew

590
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: she had to do that because at that point, getting

591
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: me to eat cake, you had better luck trying to

592
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: squeeze water out of a stone. And here's the reason

593
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: why we've all had this. We go on a quote

594
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: unquote diet. Right, this is back early like in my

595
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: bodybuilding days, I had such a hard time starting a

596
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: diet because I really loved bagels, and I loved pasta,

597
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: and I absolutely loved pizza. And you would start and

598
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: then something would happen, and then you start again. But

599
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: after a while it becomes harder and harder for you

600
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: to get off track. For a few reasons. There's loss

601
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: of version. Right, there's I've put in so much work

602
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: and effort, I don't want to blow it. But there's something,

603
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: there's something deeper, and it goes back to identity. It's

604
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: just I am the type of person now that eats

605
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: a certain way. And my girlfriend was like, knew that

606
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: I had gotten so deep down this rabbit hole of

607
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: what I do and do not eat, and it was

608
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: part of my identity. It's just like the only way

609
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to break this is if I force them

610
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: to have some cake. There you go, you broke it.

611
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: You've had cake, Come out and have some more. Because

612
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: there was no way that I would come out into

613
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: the living room, sit down and have cake with people

614
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: at three in the morning. Just wouldn't do it. Or

615
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: two in the morning whenever. So if you're going to start,

616
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: how's about this. Don't change anything you eat. If you

617
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: go out and you have your pizza, don't change that.

618
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: You go out and you have whatever you define as

619
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: junk food, don't change it. Add something to your diet.

620
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: Start to add plants, Start to add a variety of

621
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: vegetables to things that you're already eating. One, if your

622
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: diet's bad enough, you desperately need those nutrients to begin with,

623
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: you're doing your body a world of good. But two,

624
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: at a very small level, you can't deny that you're

625
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: doing things that a person who's conscientious about their health

626
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: is doing. After a while, those behaviors are going to

627
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: start to expand. Like in the gym business, some gyms

628
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: will do the research and they'll figure out if somebody

629
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: walks through the front door of our facility eight times

630
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: within a month, the likelihood that they're going to stay

631
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 2: and they're not going to cancel their membership after a

632
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: month goes up exponentially. So those gyms can say, Craig,

633
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: you know, I know that you haven't been in a gym,

634
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 2: you know, for the past decade, and you're not really

635
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: sure if this is for you. What if that concern

636
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: was not even an issue, you didn't have to worry

637
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: about follow through at all. What would you do right now?

638
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: What would be your first step? And they can give

639
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: you a money back guarantee. You know what, We have

640
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: a money back guarantee because we understand people are uncertain.

641
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 2: As long as you come to the gym eight times

642
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: this month to prove that you've given yourself and this

643
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: new lifestyle a chance. If at the end of thirty

644
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: days eight visits you're not happy, we'll refund your money,

645
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: no questions asked, because they know if you've walked into

646
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: that gym eight times, the chances of you doing that

647
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: are very slim.

648
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, does that make sense?

649
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, starting with just start with one behavior. And here's

650
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: another reason why that works. It's like going to the

651
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 2: doctor and going, ah, you know what, I keep having

652
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: I keep having this issue, and they write you a

653
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: script for five different drugs, which probably is not a

654
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: very ethical thing to do. But we come back a

655
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: month later and you're like, well, I'm feeling so much better. Well,

656
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: which drug was doing it? We have no idea or

657
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: I'm having these side effects. You know, I wake up

658
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: at the morning and there's this lesion on my face.

659
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 2: We don't know what drug is doing it. So sometimes

660
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: starting small, but start works.

661
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've told this story once or twice, but over

662
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: six years, so most people won't have heard it more

663
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: than a few times. I had clients who had come

664
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: to me back in the day when I was on

665
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: the gym floor, brand new people, and among you know,

666
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: all the myriad of things that they probably needed to address,

667
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, from lifestyle to booze, to food to drugs

668
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: to you know whatever, sleep. I had quite a few people.

669
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: This is back in the day when a lot more

670
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: people smoked, but quite a lot of people who smoked

671
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: more than fifty cigarettes a day, which seems crazy, but

672
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: back in the day was not totally rare. And I

673
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: knew that if I said to somebody who smoked sixty

674
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: cigarettes a day, okay, so today's your last cigarette, the

675
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: chances of that sticking were zero, And so we would

676
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: literally set a smoking goal for the week, you know,

677
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: fifty a day. And people are like, I can't believe

678
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: you're setting a goal for him to have fifty cigarettes

679
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: to day. I go, well, in the if you step

680
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: out of the micro and zoom back into the macro

681
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: and you see what I'm doing, and you realize that

682
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: this person's been smoking for thirty years, the chances of

683
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 1: them stopping today because I said stop today are zero.

684
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 1: So fifty cigarettes today is better than sixty. And over

685
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: time we're going to bring that right down. But the

686
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: most logical strategy would not be to go cold turkey today.

687
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: But I love you thinking, all right, we've got ten minutes,

688
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: let's move on. This one's a little bit different. I

689
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: like this, I like all of them. Imagine a swim instructor.

690
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: This is part of a bigger thing. That you wrote.

691
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: Of course, imagine a swim instructor telling a beginner to

692
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques. I

693
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: feel like that happens, or a version of that happens.

694
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: I'll side again for the listeners. Imagine a swim instructor

695
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: telling a beginner, in other words, someone who can't swim

696
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: to just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques.

697
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: That happens quite a bit, doesn't it.

698
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: Well. I think that's the default a lot of times,

699
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 2: And sometimes I have criticisms about self help gurus. Now,

700
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: a lot of amazing work is done through self help,

701
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of amazing speakers and educators

702
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: in that space. My criticism is it's one of the

703
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: only domains in life where you're a credible authority and

704
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: you tell people what to do, and if you're really good,

705
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: you tap into why they should do it. Now, mind you,

706
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: it's not their why, it's your why, but it's a

707
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: why being offered. What's left out is the how. Yeah,

708
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: And if you were an educator in any other domain

709
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: in life, you were a golf coach and you didn't

710
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: have the how or a golf instructor is a better

711
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: way of saying it. Or maybe you were working as

712
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: an instructor in medical school and you were teaching somebody surgery.

713
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 2: You told them what to do, you told them to

714
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: grind and just cut harder, dig deeper, but you didn't

715
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: really get to the how. You would send people out

716
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: to murder a lot of individuals over the course of

717
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: their career, and that medical school wouldn't be around very long.

718
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: But in self help, for some reason, the how is

719
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: left out. And if you're going to tell people what

720
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: to do, you need to have viable, executable strategies on how,

721
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: or you have to have the skill sets to extract

722
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 2: the how from that particular individual. But when you take

723
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 2: a look at James Petraska, who's one of the founders

724
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: of the trans theoretical model of change, one of the

725
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 2: things that he says, the reason why people don't get

726
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: started is because they really do not know what to do.

727
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 2: What I think he's getting at when you read how

728
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: he explains it, they don't know how to do it.

729
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: I know what to do, I don't know how to

730
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: do it. And that's a problem that's not executable, that's

731
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: not strategic.

732
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of when somebody he's worried, and

733
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: then some well meaning person says to the worried person,

734
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: don't worry.

735
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: I didn't consider that yet. Wow, genius never occurred to

736
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: me not to worry.

737
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're coaching, I might don't worry. Ah fuck,

738
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: thank god you came along. I'm better.

739
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: You know. It's interesting. It's everything that because we've all

740
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: done stuff like that. Everything we're saying to the person, Yes,

741
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 2: don't you think they've said the same things to themselves

742
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 2: with greater intent, the greater judgment, greater shame. It's it's

743
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: it's not helpful. It might be well meaning, but it's

744
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: not helpful at the end of the day.

745
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it all right. A man that is

746
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: often quoted by you, Charles Bokowski, This is just two words.

747
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: Don't try. Don't try explain that. That seems like counterintuitive advice.

748
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: I don't quote Bukowski because I'm advocating anybody model him.

749
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 2: I am attracted to highly flawed people, and that's that's

750
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: again a different conversation out of context. And Bukowski and

751
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: I had very similar beginnings in our childhood, so I

752
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: kind of resonate I don't take that as.

753
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: A that's probably that's Bobby's disclaimer. Everyone. Yeah, that's it,

754
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: bukowski disclaimer.

755
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: And when you talk about don't try, he's so believed

756
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: in that. It is the epiteph on his tombstone. I

757
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: don't think he meant it as this nihilistic resignation of

758
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: what's the point of doing anything. We're all going to

759
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: end up gone anyway. I think it was. It was

760
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: just the opposite. Bukowski, in his later years, wrote several

761
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: novels and hundreds of essays and poems. The guy was

762
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: rather prolific. You don't produce that body of work by

763
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: not trying. Bukowski's thing was, if you want to be

764
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 2: a writer for any other reason, then you cannot help

765
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 2: but to write. You're doing it for the wrong reasons.

766
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: Because the quintessential defining characteristic of a writer is not

767
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: who is most financially successful, who's written. It's someone who

768
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 2: writes continualm someone who produces a body of work. Don't

769
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: try to be a writer. Be a writer. Sit down

770
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: and get to the business of writing. And if there's

771
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: not something that is so deeply emotionally resonant with you

772
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: where you cannot not do the work. You're in it

773
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons. You're either doing it because you're

774
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: looking for fame, you're looking for recognition, maybe you're doing

775
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: it because you want to be admired by the opposite sex,

776
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: the same sex, whatever, you're doing it for all the

777
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: wrong reasons, and you're not going to be telling the truth.

778
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 2: And in art, you've got to be truthful because it's

779
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: about resonating with raw expression. So I think that's what

780
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: he meant. If you want to be if you want

781
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: to be anything, if you want to be fit, don't

782
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: go out and try to be fit, engage in the behaviors,

783
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: don't try to produce an outcome. That was one of

784
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: the things I noticed when I was struggling with burnout

785
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 2: is I was trying very horrid and I didn't understand why.

786
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: I don't go out and step in front of an

787
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: audience and I'm going to try to motivate them. I'm

788
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: going to try. But I was doing these things. I

789
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: was like, where is this coming from? And that's when

790
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: I was one of the indicators of burnout. There's a

791
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: difference between trying and being, and I think that's what Pokowski.

792
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: Was talking about there's a very famous AFL coach over

793
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 3: here who you wouldn't know of, but his name's John

794
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 3: Kennedy and he was one of the most famous inspirational

795
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 3: You know, in NFL and NBA, there's quite a few

796
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 3: renowned inspirational coaches who.

797
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: Were allegedly great leaders of men and all that. So

798
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: John Kennedy was that in Australia and he was renowned

799
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: for his rousing, kind of inspiring speeches to get athletes

800
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: to do shit, superhuman shit, right. And it's not impressed

801
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: of now, but in the sixties, there's this image of

802
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: him is out. I think it's on the mcg the

803
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: biggest cricket stadium in the world football austray and Reels

804
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: Football Stadium, one hundred and something thousand people, and he's

805
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: screaming in his players and he says, don't think do,

806
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: don't think do. And that's not kind of a revelation now,

807
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: but you know, this is like fifty sixty years ago

808
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: he was he was basically, you know, pointing towards this

809
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: kind of theme a little bit. I think, so all right,

810
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: last one, you're ready go on.

811
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 2: Last week had a pretty inspiring Johan Kennedy as well.

812
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: I think it's something in the name.

813
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Ours didn't have an f to my knowledge.

814
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: Well there's something all right. Last one, let's talk about

815
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: the idea of optimizing our strengths versus focusing on our

816
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: weakness is.

817
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: I think as we're growing up, I know in my

818
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 2: experience personally, it was a focus on here are your weaknesses,

819
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: and you've got to sort yourself out. And if your

820
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 2: weaknesses are like character flaws, like I've got this weakness,

821
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: well what is it while I tend to embezzle a lot. Well,

822
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: I think you need to probably work on that.

823
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: But oh that is so good, Yeah that in bizzling.

824
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: You've got to do something about that.

825
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: Man, if your weakness is you know, I'm really amazing

826
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: as a footballer, but I'm horrible at spreadsheets, you might

827
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: not want to spend too much time on that. I

828
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more value and there's also a

829
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: lot more creativity. There's a lot more innovation and possibility

830
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: when you identify what am I quintessentially good at and

831
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: build from there down in your strengths. Because if you

832
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 2: take a look at I know I've talked about this

833
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: or I think I've talked about this on the show

834
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 2: because I talk about a lot doctor Martin Seligman. He's

835
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: kind of like the father of positive psychology. He's done

836
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 2: a lot of great work. And when you look at

837
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: his frame and values in Action, so you could go

838
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: to like VIIa dot Org, I think it is. Anyway,

839
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: if you type in values in Action, it'll come up

840
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: and you can take a version of this for free.

841
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: It's a survey that helps you identify your values, and

842
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: he believes that when you act on those values, which

843
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: is my definition of authenticity, it shows up as a

844
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: signature strength that what you're really strong at innately is

845
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 2: usually aligned with what's most meaningful to you. So I

846
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: think when you doubled down on that, not only are

847
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: you leveraging the very best in you, but you're you're

848
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: also doing something thing that gives you a sense of resilience.

849
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: It gives you a sense of optimism, it gives you

850
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 2: a sense of purpose in the face of challenge. It

851
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 2: kind of does a lot. Because so here's another Gallop book, First,

852
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: Break All the Rules. This is by Buckingham and Kaufman.

853
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 2: They wrote that, and I think they interviewed something like

854
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: eighty six thousand or an incredibly large base of highly

855
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 2: effective managers, and they were identifying what separates an average

856
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 2: leader from an exceptional leader. And one of the qualities

857
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 2: was is that they identify and develop people's strengths. Because

858
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: if you have people on your team and they're innately

859
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: weak at something, and you spend a ton of time

860
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: in resources helping them elevate their strengths, they go from

861
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 2: they go from weakness to average. At the same time,

862
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: the people who have marked strengths and those are being neglected,

863
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: they're being ignored. That's where you should be spending the

864
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 2: most of time with those people. I'm focused on, how

865
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: do they expand their strengths their strengths start to decline

866
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: to average. So now you've built a team of average performers. Yes,

867
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: and it's counterintuitive, but it shows up in their data.

868
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense. What are your signature strengths?

869
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: Spend most of the time there.

870
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think, you know, even in my tiny

871
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 1: little business now with Melissa, and Tiff does a bit

872
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: with us as well, and I have another guy called

873
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: Greg who does a bit. But I always think based

874
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: on what you know, based on what we need to do,

875
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: be create and get done. What's the best use of me,

876
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: like in this little business, what's the best use of me?

877
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: What's the optimal use of me and my talent, my skills,

878
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: my knowledge. What's the optimal use of Melissa? What's the

879
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: optimal use of Tiff? How do we best exploit what

880
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: each of us are good at? And as you said,

881
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: you know me me going and rebuilding our website not

882
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: a good use of me at all. Me uploading the

883
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: file from this and then publishing it wherever the fuck

884
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: it goes, and then doing I don't know, like I

885
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: don't know how to turn this this. All I know

886
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: is how to press this zoom link and get you

887
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: and then talk to you and then press end call

888
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: that's my and come up with a title and write

889
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: a synopsis. But actually turning it into a thing that

890
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: the world listens to that they can press on a

891
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: button on their phone. And here's fucking Fatty Harps and

892
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: Bobby Kapucco. I don't know how that happens, but I

893
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: don't need to.

894
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: Could you imagine as an experiment, Melessa, I think you

895
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 2: need to get better at public speaking. I could probably

896
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 2: be a little bit better at operations. For the next

897
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: three months, we're going to swap. I'm going to run

898
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: all the operations in the organization and you're going to

899
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 2: do all the public speaking and all the podcasts, and

900
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: we're going to come back three months from now. Just

901
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: see how as.

902
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is a very good point, mate, I

903
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: realize how much I've missed you. Hey, I've got to

904
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: find mate. I've got a bunch of questions. Can we

905
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: do another one very soon?

906
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. I just love hopping on here and chatting

907
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: with the audience and riffing with you. It's great.

908
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very good at it. All right. Tell people

909
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: where they can find you and connect with you and

910
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: listen to you.

911
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: Well, you could listen to the self help and to

912
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 2: do it. That's found in most places where you find podcasts,

913
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: if that's helpful. Mostly I'm on LinkedIn. I'm staying away

914
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: from other social media platforms. But I kind of like

915
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 2: the dialogue. I like the conversation. I dig it, so

916
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 2: you can find me there.

917
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, mate, we'll say goodbye fare but once

918
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: again thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you. What

919
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: is it? So it's eight twenty eight Monday. More, No,

920
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: what is it Sunday morning?

921
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's too yeah out here in uh in

922
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 2: uh San Diego.

923
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: All right, buddy, we'll talk, So see you man.

924
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 2: Cheers Bye,